Clarification About the "No Articles" Rule in the Warrior Forum?

48 replies
So, as stated here, "articles" are no longer allowed in the main forums.

I had a thread deleted and now I'm feeling paranoid about posting here again. What am I allowed to post and what not? Can we get some clear rules about this?

Is it just "no valuable threads, only questions allowed"?

Or is it word-count: "all posts must be 300 words or less"?
Also, would these rules apply only to first posts or also to replies?

And: Are rants still allowed?

I still see some of the types of threads around where someone is just sharing something valuable that they have learnt. I personally love these threads, by the way.
But the point is: It seems like creating a thread to share some info is still allowed, except in some cases. And I'd love to know exactly what makes the difference between just a valuable post and what is considered an "article".

Also: I'm posting this here and not as a support ticket because there must be at least 7-9 other people wondering the same thing (and I've been asked about what happened to my thread).
#clarification #forum #no articles #rule #warrior
  • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
    There is now a paid articles section where you can post your articles.
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    I hope it wasn't your product thread, that was good stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Shane - I think the idea is that they don't want people starting threads where all they do is post an article.

    There is an article forum section and we all have members blogs but some people still insist on posting their articles here either to get links, try and grab forum traffic or just to blow up their egos because they think the forum 'needs' their particular view on something.

    People generally do a quick Google and see it's not someone posting a genuine WF post and press the report button.

    The sig file area is there if you want to point people to your stuff.

    I don't think it's in any way to limit posts - I know most of mine tend to be quite long (sometimes VERY) and I've never had a normal post deleted due to word count.

    Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author ShaneRQR
    Originally Posted by avenuegirl View Post

    There is now a paid articles section where you can post your articles.
    Yes, I realize that and the mod who deleted my thread left a not saying so.

    But the question is: What is an article and what is a post?

    That's what has got me confused.


    Originally Posted by jasonmorgan View Post

    I hope it wasn't your product thread, that was good stuff.
    That's the one.

    Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

    Shane - I think the idea is that they don't want people starting threads where all they do is post an article.

    There is an article forum section and we all have members blogs but some people still insist on posting their articles here either to get links, try and grab forum traffic or just to blow up their egos because they think the forum 'needs' their particular view on something.

    People generally do a quick Google and see it's not someone posting a genuine WF post and press the report button.

    The sig file area is there if you want to point people to your stuff.

    I don't think it's in any way to limit posts - I know most of mine tend to be quite long (sometimes VERY) and I've never had a normal post deleted due to word count.

    Andy
    So the post can't be somewhere else already?
    Because mine was only published here.

    Perhaps you could say that it belonged to the category: "blow up their egos because they think the forum 'needs' their particular view on something." but I'd seen and enjoyed many "giving back to the Warrior Forum" threads and wanted to create one like that as well (as those threads are one of the things that brought me here in the first place).
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by ShaneRQR View Post

      Yes, I realize that and the mod who deleted my thread left a not saying so.

      But the question is: What is an article and what is a post?

      That's what has got me confused.
      Well, one thing that might qualify an article is if you have the exact wording or close to it on another web page.

      Also if it appears to be in promotion of your own products. :confused:
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      • Profile picture of the author ShaneRQR
        Originally Posted by avenuegirl View Post

        Well, one thing that might qualify an article is if you have the exact wording or close to it on another web page.

        Also if it appears to be in promotion of your own products. :confused:
        That, I'd completely understand.
        Can't be it though, as both wasn't the case with my thread. Don't know about the others, of course.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Jill,
        Well, one thing that might qualify an article is if you have the exact wording or close to it on another web page.

        Also if it appears to be in promotion of your own products. :confused:
        Shane's was neither. It was quite interesting, and definitely what I'd call highly valuable content. But, as Les suggested, it's not a function of defining value. If we go down that road, we have the same sorts of arguments we'd have if we tried to explain and then defend every post deletion.

        The choices then, given the number of people making those decisions, are all of them or none at all.

        Like so many things here, it's not a reflection on the content or the person. Simply a matter of maintaining the place as a discussion forum, and not an article directory.


        Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
    Originally Posted by ShaneRQR View Post

    And: Are rants still allowed?
    Well yes - but rants in general are not really productive - from my personal observations here.

    Anyway, I just did is silly mini rant in the off topic forum.

    Or it may have just been my own little version of a b*tch fest. lol
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
      I would be surprised if someone would set a limit on the number of words in a post before it became an article.

      I would guess more that if it sounded like an article more than a post, it might get deleted. I don't remember reading your post specifically, so I don't know anything about it.

      I have seen some other posts that look for all the world like someone just copied and pasted their article to the forum. The tone is completely different in the ones I have read. Hard to put a finger on exactly what is different about it though.
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  • Hi Shane,

    Saw what happened to your thread too, and was wondering the same thing.

    I can see why they wouldn't want people to post their articles in the main discussion threads, because a forum is meant to be more for discussion rather than posting content.

    Though I think this is basically something that just started with the introduction of the article directory section. I still see a lot of article-type threads from members that were first posted quite some time ago, and those are still in the main section of the forum. I think seeing those threads can be misleading to other posters.

    But how do you differentiate between an article and a non-article? I think that will be something difficult to define... Some threads are clearly articles, but some might be a hybrid of article+forum post.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Shane,
      "articles" are no longer allowed in the main forums.
      That has been the rule for a long time. If it looks like an article, it's likely to be deleted. Those are better posted on your blog or in the article section.

      It's as much a matter of phrasing as format. If you want to help people out, start with part of the idea and feed the rest in throughout the thread. Folks will learn more that way, and it will more closely resemble a discussion than an exposition.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author donhx
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Shane,That has been the rule for a long time. If it looks like an article, it's likely to be deleted. Those are better posted on your blog or in the article section.

        It's as much a matter of phrasing as format. If you want to help people out, start with part of the idea and feed the rest in throughout the thread. Folks will learn more that way, and it will more closely resemble a discussion than an exposition.


        Paul

        There is a famous Supreme Court case from 1964 about pornography. It seems to apply to articles here too.

        "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it..."


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    • Profile picture of the author George Wright
      Actually my observation is that articles were never welcomed on the main forum. Many if not most were usually deleted. Since certain ones of us insisted on posting articles Allen gave us the Blog section.

      That didn't stop Article posters so he gave us the Article Forum.

      And some still persist in posting articles and they usually get deleted. Similar discussions to this one have been going on for a long time even before the Blog section and Article forum were created. So it's not new.

      Warriors used to be "called" for "pontificating" until article and "bum" marketing became all the rage. Now it's called articles and article marketing and that has never been allowed on the main forum.

      I Think.

      George Wright



      Originally Posted by Illumination View Post

      Hi Shane,

      Saw what happened to your thread too, and was wondering the same thing.

      I can see why they wouldn't want people to post their articles in the main discussion threads, because a forum is meant to be more for discussion rather than posting content.

      Though I think this is basically something that just started with the introduction of the article directory section. I still see a lot of article-type threads from members that were first posted quite some time ago, and those are still in the main section of the forum. I think seeing those threads can be misleading to other posters.

      But how do you differentiate between an article and a non-article? I think that will be something difficult to define... Some threads are clearly articles, but some might be a hybrid of article+forum post.
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  • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
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    Originally Posted by ShaneRQR View Post


    Is it just "no valuable threads, only questions allowed"?
    Who decides what's valuable or not?

    This forum is supposed to be a discussion forum.
    But it's being filled up with long winded lecture type posts,
    more often than not with matching sig file,
    Which usually gets followed by 50 or so
    "great post" type comments for the next 5 days.

    Nothing like a discussion at all.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Shane, I've been puzzled by this sort of thing for years now and still don't
      know.

      So, here is my rule of thumb that I now use before I start any thread in
      the main discussion forum.

      If it looks like something I would submit to Ezine Articles, I don't post it.

      It's that simple. As a consequence, I start very few threads in main
      discussion these days because sometimes I'm not sure.

      Sometimes it can simply be a matter of phrasing and format as Paul says.
      My problem is even when I reply to a thread, such as this one, I tend to
      end up replying like an article writer.

      It's one of the hazards of the profession.

      Most of my most recent Main Discussion threads have been question
      type threads with polls where people can even give their opinion. I find
      them to be pretty safe.

      One thing I now definitely stay away from is the XYZ "do this and do that"
      type of posts because more often than not, they read like articles. It
      really can't be helped.

      However, to be fair to those who have had their threads deleted, I've
      seen tons of threads here that don't get deleted, usually by the long
      standing Warriors, that are every bit an article.

      Maybe they're just missed. I don't know. I don't really care. I don't get
      caught up in that stuff anymore.

      So here's a word of advice. Take it for what it's worth to you.

      If you value your time and don't want to end up creating a thread that
      ends up getting deleted because you think it might be looked at as an
      article, simply don't post it here. Use the WF blog or articles section, which
      I hear gets amazing search results, and spare yourself the frustration.

      This reply is now over 300 words, which would certainly qualify as an
      article in length at most directories, and yet is simply a response to your
      question and in no way an article...at least not the way I see it.

      And again, that's open to interpretation.

      Point is, it's not length. It's what you're saying and how you're saying it.

      Eventually, you'll get the feel for what you can and can't post here. It
      may take you a while.

      I know it took me years.

      Anyway, probably not the answer you were hoping for, but I hope it helps.

      ----------------------------

      Total non article Word Count - 403 words
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    • Profile picture of the author Mohammad Afaq
      Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

      Who decides what's valuable or not?

      This forum is supposed to be a discussion forum.
      But it's being filled up with long winded lecture type posts,
      more often than not with matching sig file,
      Which usually gets followed by 50 or so
      "great post" type comments for the next 5 days.

      Nothing like a discussion at all.
      Ok I am playing with fire here but I will try not to get burned.

      So what you are saying is, I can post a "what do you think" or "how do you do this" thread but I cannot start a "here's how you do this" kind of a thread ??? :confused:

      For example, if I start a "What do you think about my article?" thread then it's a "discussion" but if I create a "Here's how you write an article?" type of thread would it be considered a "long winded lecture type post"?

      EDIT: I think Michael got it right as there is not clear "definition" of the kinds of threads you are talking about but we all know which ones they are once we come across them.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by Mohammad Afaq View Post

        Ok I am playing with fire here but I will try not to get burned.

        So what you are saying is, I can post a "what do you think" or "how do you do this" thread but I cannot start a "here's how you do this" kind of a thread ??? :confused:

        EDIT: I think Michael got it right as there is not clear "definition" of the kinds of threads you are talking about but we all know which ones they are once we come across it.
        Hi Mohammad,

        I'm not trying to answer for Les, but will offer my opinion on it.

        A "here's the ONLY way to do this" kind of thread may be more likely to get deleted than a "here's ONE way to do this, what do you guys think?" type of thread.

        All the best,
        Michael
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

          Hi Mohammad,

          I'm not trying to answer for Les, but will offer my opinion on it.

          A "here's the ONLY way to do this" kind of thread may be more likely to get deleted than a "here's ONE way to do this, what do you guys think?" type of thread.

          All the best,
          Michael
          Michael, I think either will get deleted. At least that's been my experience.

          I am inclined to agree with Mohammad's assessment of the whole thing.

          Again, my experience is what I am going by.

          But like I also said above, its a judgment call and there are no absolutes
          when it comes to something like this.

          At least I don't think there are...though I may very well be wrong.

          I guess that's my way of saying I just don't know.
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Michael, I think either will get deleted. At least that's been my experience.

            I am inclined to agree with Mohammad's assessment of the whole thing.

            Again, my experience is what I am going by.

            But like I also said above, its a judgment call and there are no absolutes
            when it comes to something like this.

            At least I don't think there are...though I may very well be wrong.

            I guess that's my way of saying I just don't know.
            LOL

            No doubt. That's why I said "may be" and "more likely"; there is just too much grey area to make a definitive statement.

            All the best,
            Michael
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

              LOL

              No doubt. That's why I said "may be" and "more likely"; there is just too much grey area to make a definitive statement.

              All the best,
              Michael
              Michael, let me say this and it is something that I've learned over time
              that I think most people will agree with.

              I used to think that starting a thread imparting some kind of knowledge
              was beneficial to the forum.

              But what if nobody was interested in that knowledge?

              Wouldn't it be better to look and see who had specific questions on a
              given topic and, if possible, answer them?

              Doesn't that accomplish more than just arbitrarily deciding what people
              might want to know?

              Sometimes we get so caught up in our egos (I know I did) that we think
              that our wisdom simply must be shared with all.

              I have come to realize that I can be of more help to somebody who has
              a puzzling question and just needs a straight answer in order to continue
              with their work.

              I began to realize that when I started having technical problems (my weak
              area) and came here for help.

              Imagine if all the experts simply started their own self serving threads
              without answering any of the actual questions and problems that other
              members had.

              What would that do to the quality of the forum experience for everybody?

              Sometimes a simple "There's a link at the bottom of this URL that explains
              XYZ companies TOS" can be more valuable than all the thousands of
              words of "imparted wisdom" that the experts have to share with the
              members.

              In other words...sometimes less is more.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Seems to me that it's one of those "I don't know exactly how to define it, but I'll know it when I see it" kind of things.

    Also, it would most likely have to fall under the category of a judgment call. Because as soon as you start making precise rules about what counts as an article, people will start finding ways around those rules...which will lead to more rules...which will lead to more ways around them...etc.

    All the best,
    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      Seems to me that it's one of those "I don't know exactly how to define it, but I'll know it when I see it" kind of things.

      Also, it would most likely have to fall under the category of a judgment call. Because as soon as you start making precise rules about what counts as an article, people will start finding ways around those rules...which will lead to more rules...which will lead to more ways around them...etc.

      All the best,
      Michael
      Michael, you're right...it is a judgment call, which is why I now err on the
      side of caution. That way, I'm pretty safe.

      But for the most part, I think "how to" threads are pretty much going the
      way of the dinosaur in Main Discussion as most of those can't help but
      reading like an article.

      Of course there will always be exceptions. And since the moderation of
      this forum is done by human beings, there are going to be interpretation
      differences.

      So forget about the rules, as you said. People will always find a way
      around them which will lead to more rules which will lead to total chaos,
      bitching, nit picking and everything else you can think of.

      I guess it's like a beautiful woman. I can't define what one looks like. I
      just know her when I see her.

      Which is the same with:

      movies
      music
      art

      or anything that's subjective.

      It's what makes the world so interesting.

      Your article might be my brief comment.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    I think that I've always internal judged this stuff based on whether it looks like it was written specifically for this forum or just a copy of something posted elsewhere. You can normally tell because when you write to fellow members you refer to the forum or members. If it was written for somewhere else it's more generic.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    It's easy to work out what to do though....

    Just ask yourself why you're posting it.

    Is it in response to a question someone asked - or for your own reasons.

    If it's not directly in response to something then why post? Most things have been asked here before so it's unlikely you've discovered something new and want to tell the world - if you have then it probably will be ok

    Venting or sharing thoughts should be ok - if there's a reason you think members should care.

    But who knows for sure...
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    • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Just ask yourself why you're posting it.

      Is it in response to a question someone asked - or for your own reasons.
      A lot are because of the matching sig files.
      Just think back at how many of those "how I made $10,000 in 2 days"
      type of posts we've seen in the last few weeks.

      There appears to be a new millionaire turning up here every 20 minutes or so. Funny how they all congregate here.
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

        A lot are because of the matching sig files.
        Just think back at how many of those "how I made $10,000 in 2 days"
        type of posts we've seen in the last few weeks.

        There appears to be a new millionaire turning up here every 20 minutes or so. Funny how they all congregate here.
        Haha - I noticed that too.

        It seems that some people think that coming here and saying how much they earn will make them instead gurus in the eyes of our naive members.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        I think the question is being overly complicated.

        If you wrote "something" and published it elsewhere - or if you found "something interesting" published elsewhere....it's a an article.

        If you wrote some paragraphs for the purpose of posting on the WF to help others or explain something or other....it's a forum post.

        There may be gray areas here and there - but it's not a difficult distinction.

        Most rants end up being one or another variation of "I didn't get what I wanted when I wanted it and I'm mad". Can be entertaining at times.

        kay
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Post #15, by Michael Oksa, is the closest any of you have come. Some of these suggestions are so far out there I have to wonder where the posters have been reading.

    If you can't tell the difference between an article and part of a conversation, that's a challenge for you to overcome. Starting a conversation with, "Hey, check out this cool thing that I learned" is not a problem. At least not anywhere I've ever been.

    Good grief. Are folks so wrapped up in "The Rules," or getting an edge, that we forget what it's like just being people?


    Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Les,
    A lot are because of the matching sig files.
    Does that mean you shouldn't talk about email marketing simply because you have an autoresponder service? Or that I shouldn't mention some cool conversion trick for a sign-up page because I run a newsletter?

    As soon as you try to break it down to something that simple, it goes pear-shaped, fast. It starts the LawyerMan instincts going.

    It's easy, folks. Converse. Discuss. Interact.

    How difficult is that?


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Les,Does that mean you shouldn't talk about email marketing simply because you have an autoresponder service? Or that I shouldn't mention some cool conversion trick for a sign-up page because I run a newsletter?

      As soon as you try to break it down to something that simple, it goes pear-shaped, fast. It starts the LawyerMan instincts going.

      It's easy, folks. Converse. Discuss. Interact.

      How difficult is that?


      Paul
      Paul,
      There's a whole lot of difference between mentioning something,
      and starting up a thread with matching sig file the same day as you arrive here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
    I could be wrong here, but for me it seems like when questioning what is an article and what isn't the question I would ask is "Does this lend itself to discussion or is it just me telling a story that leaves no room for discussion at all?"
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by ShaneRQR View Post

    Can we get some clear rules about this?
    If you know it's not an article, post it.

    If you know it is an article, don't.

    If you aren't sure, it's probably an article.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Caliban,
      If you know it's not an article, post it.

      If you know it is an article, don't.

      If you aren't sure, it's probably an article.
      In rebuttal, I have but two words: Confirmation bias.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Caliban,In rebuttal, I have but two words: Confirmation bias.
        Most people don't have so much confirmation bias that they can delude themselves into believing an article is DEFINITELY not an article.

        Those who do? Well, you can't fix stupid.
        Signature
        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          Most people don't have so much confirmation bias that they can delude themselves into believing an article is DEFINITELY not an article.

          Those who do? Well, you can't fix stupid.
          I'm surprised you would underestimate the power of confirmation bias. But I expected as much.



          ~M~
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  • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
    I think this came about because someone asked in this thread http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ior-forum.html if they should post their articles here or on Ezine.

    A few people misguidedly advised posting them here. I suggested adding them to their blog instead
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

      A few people misguidedly advised posting them here.
      Most people - including me - probably assumed this person was going to post them IN THE WARRIOR FORUM'S ARTICLE AREA.
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        Most people - including me - probably assumed this person was going to post them IN THE WARRIOR FORUM'S ARTICLE AREA.
        Well, he did ask if it was ok to paste them "in a thread" - rather than saying he'd post them in the article directory.
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  • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
    In most cases were I have seen long posts disappear, it is because they are clearly articles.

    An article is designed to "inform" a reader, whereas an opening gambit in a discussion "suggests", but is also open to the idea that they could be wrong, and wants to know what others think.

    In fact when I am wrong and discover it, I am delighted, as I then know more than I did before I started out.

    So, with that in mind, was your post designed to start a discussion that could help many people pool their ideas for the greater good, or was it to impart your opinion as if it was the final word in internet marketing knowledge.

    I have nothing against your particular article as I never even saw it, but I have seen many articles recently, and I certainly understand why they are being deleted.

    By discussion we grow. Let a few members gain too much ground, though, and opinion starts to get confused with fact. Then the discussion ends, and the ass kissing takes over.

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  • Profile picture of the author TrishMullen
    I think it is really obvious from the first line of the thread whether it is an article or not. Even with the best will in the world, it is nigh on impossible to write a serious article in a fully conversational style.

    There are little mannerisms and things that go into conversational threads and you can see them all the way through this post here.

    Steven, the copywriting wiz would probably be the most 'formal' in his writing style in this post, and I can understand when he says it is the nature of what he does, but he still retains that conversational element throughout. This element is missing in every article I've ever read.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Les,
    the same day as you arrive here
    Yep. Very big difference. You didn't mention that earlier, though. You waved in that general direction, but that doesn't work for talking with new folks who don't grok the process.


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  • Profile picture of the author Alfredo Carrion
    Then, some of the best threads of the forum are really articles and will be deleted? :confused:


    Shane, where are you going to post your product thread? I want to bookmark it. I read it before it was deleted and really like it.

    Edit: I found it ;-)
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    • Profile picture of the author ShaneRQR
      Thank you for the many replies. I think it's clearer to me now and I honestly wasn't aware of this "no articles" rule before my thread got nuked.


      Originally Posted by Alfredocoach View Post

      Then, some of the best threads of the forum are really articles and will be deleted? :confused:


      Shane, where are you going to post your product thread? I want to bookmark it. I read it before it was deleted and really like it.
      Linking to a post of mine would be a fine way to make this thread disappear very quickly as well, so I won't do that.
      I do know most of the rules.
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  • Profile picture of the author EndGame
    Shane,

    I found your thread at 2am, bookmarked it to read today and was gutted to see it was gone. It didn't look like an article to me, just an incredibly well-thought out and well put together post.

    However, since I didn't read it, I can't really offer any strong opinion on that side of things.

    What can I say is the format of the post looked good, you got a lot of thanks for it, and I was really looking forward to reading it today. If you have a copy of it at all, are you thinking about re-publishing it elsewhere, and if so, any thoughts on where you might post it? I'd love to read it!

    **Update** Think I found it. :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    What really got me was an email I received from somebody who has a Warrior user name (note: I an NOT calling them a "Warrior"). The subject line of the email was the exact same as the title of one of their posts in the main forum.

    Yes, it was a sales message.

    The problem is I didn't read the WF thread with the same title, so I don't know how much of a difference there was between the post and the email.

    So...that kind of thing seems like a no-brainer to me.

    All the best,
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I don't think it's complex. Start a conversation ... not a lecture. Starting a conversation isn't going to be a long post with all the details on how to do something.

    As an example: Friend has a hole in their kitchen wall.
    When you drop by the friend's house, how do you start a conversation? Do you start it with a long winded monologue on how to remodel their kitchen? I don't.

    My conversation about their kitchen would be more like this:
    Hey ... what's up with that hole in the wall? After I got an answer, if I had a solution to the problem, I would begin discussing ways to fix that. It would be a back and forth conversation.

    As for sig file stuff ... I participate in conversations that interest me and my interests are also reflected in my sig file. Doesn't mean thats the only reason I am participating in the discussion.

    I think most people who start off with an article, know that it is an article. They are looking for recognition ... kudos ... thanks, etc. and maybe some of them are attempting a presell on an upcoming product or promotion of a current product.

    Some are even just trying to provide good info to help others out, but just going about it the wrong way. Just start a conversation.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

      Who decides what's valuable or not?

      This forum is supposed to be a discussion forum.
      But it's being filled up with long winded lecture type posts,
      more often than not with matching sig file,
      Which usually gets followed by 50 or so
      "great post" type comments for the next 5 days.


      Nothing like a discussion at all.

      When I noticed Les' reply, I got to the third line and I was thinking to make a funny crack about how this was starting to read like a lecture.

      Then I saw what is bolded, and it all made sense.

      If a post creates a discussion, it is not an article.

      If a post creates a base of loyal fans who want to praise the writer, then it is.

      This really is an over-simplification of the issue, but I think it is a very easy way to distinguish what will be nuked and what will not be nuked.



      Originally Posted by Johnny Slater View Post

      I could be wrong here, but for me it seems like when questioning what is an article and what isn't the question I would ask is "Does this lend itself to discussion or is it just me telling a story that leaves no room for discussion at all?"

      More validation of the idea.



      Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey View Post

      An article is designed to "inform" a reader, whereas an opening gambit in a discussion "suggests", but is also open to the idea that they could be wrong, and wants to know what others think.

      By discussion we grow. Let a few members gain too much ground, though, and opinion starts to get confused with fact. Then the discussion ends, and the ass kissing takes over.

      As writers in the community, we understand how to lead people to take certain actions.

      Being able to guide people to take from our writing the ideas we want them to take and lead people to the action we want them to take are two of the defining differences between a "great writer" and a "seo writer".

      If we as writers cannot lead people to choose "discussion" over "ass-kissing" in their responses, then we are really not as talented as we once thought.



      Originally Posted by Alfredocoach View Post

      Then, some of the best threads of the forum are really articles and will be deleted? :confused:

      Shane, where are you going to post your product thread? I want to bookmark it. I read it before it was deleted and really like it.

      Edit: I found it ;-)

      Under the reasoning we are following here, this poster validates that the OP wrote an article, not a discussion piece.

      Notice the level of ass-kissing in his response.



      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      I don't think it's complex. Start a conversation ... not a lecture. Starting a conversation isn't going to be a long post with all the details on how to do something.

      As an example: Friend has a hole in their kitchen wall.
      When you drop by the friend's house, how do you start a conversation? Do you start it with a long winded monologue on how to remodel their kitchen? I don't.

      My conversation about their kitchen would be more like this:
      Hey ... what's up with that hole in the wall? After I got an answer, if I had a solution to the problem, I would begin discussing ways to fix that. It would be a back and forth conversation.

      And if anyone wondered about the technical aspects of "how to guide people" to interpret your ideas as an invitation to conversation, rather than a plea to kiss our asses, then Suzanne has given us that in just three paragraphs.



      p.s. If my response here had been a thread starter instead of a response to a thread, then it might have been walking on thin ice, as I have not left many openings to those who want to discuss the topic.

      In other words, if this had been a thread-starter, it might have lead to 50 "you are awesome" replies, and half a dozen "you suck" replies, with few people trying to have a discussion about what I had said.
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    • Profile picture of the author AnitaCross
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      I don't think it's complex. Start a conversation ... not a lecture.

      ... Just start a conversation.
      This is so true, it bears repeating.

      Need help with this? Watch a TV interview where the host has some amount of fame.

      Isn't it annoying when he/she asks the guest a question, and then answers it for them, or interjects some other comments first and essentially allows the guest little more than the opportunity to say "yes" to the questions?

      Isn't it much more satisfying when the host asks the question, then gets out of the way so the guest can inform the audience with the answer? Where further comments or questions flow naturally?

      That's a conversation!

      Just don't get hung up on the monologue first...

      Respectfully,
      -Anita
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