Where have all the "Big Picture" thinkers gone???

Thanks, Steve.

Mind warriors, yes of course, I'll have a closer look and put my stuff in the proper category.

As for the troll fest, yeah, no, I ain't into that either ;-)

Paul

I may be mistaken, but my understanding is that the Mind Warriors section is concerned primarily with one's own mindset, rather than, for instance, the psychology of buyers. I don't visit that area much, but when I do, I notice it seems to be largely the province of the 'manifest mob' (not that there's anything wrong with that :rolleyes.

Topics such as Allen's 'Herd Mentality' post (in the War Room), IMO, definitely belong in the main forum as they fit right in with the where we talk about making money brief.


Frank

Groan all you like Steven, that pun was just my cup of tea.

Death seems a little harsh. Maybe we could just outsource a back-alley mugging?

Bill, Rod, Chris and Michael, I see what you guys mean. Totally.

I also see a great opportunity for someone to stroll in here and open up a big can of intellectual whoopass on the forum and dominate in their own way. They just need to do it without inciting a riot. Granted, someone else always seems to do the rioting thing and distract everyone, but still, meat is meat and the ones who really want it can look past the strife.

So who wants to be the pied piper?

Paul

Paul,

Good to see you back.

I've been reading along, and there are some points here I agree with and some I don't. I'm more interested in why some haven't been brought up at all.

The size of the group has a little to do with some aspects of the discussion, but not in the way this thread addresses. The "regression to the mean" thing assumes a lot, and misses the sub-populations in the various topical sections. There are a number of significantly different cultures in this forum now. That wasn't the case when you were here previously.

There are a few factors pushing things toward the narrow focus and technique vs strategy orientation. The biggest are the number of people for whom English is a second language and the folks who've turned to IM as a way out of a desperate situation.

We've always had a relatively large contingent of people for whom English is a second language. It has only been recently, though, that we've begun to attract so many who speak it poorly. That's not a personal criticism, mind you. It's just an acknowledgment of the facts.

When someone tries to read through enough threads that are made more difficult by translating nearly incoherent comments, it gets wearing. They're less likely to reply in those.

It's also the case that many of those same people are here for no other purpose than to spam the board. Whether directly, with outright ads, or indirectly, with link spam in their sig files. That raises the level of suspicion directed at anyone with trouble communicating in English. When that hits a certain point, the annoyance becomes directed at the forum as a whole.

The folks in a desperate situation are another issue entirely. They don't care about business building or thinking strategically. They're worried about their rent, and it's often an immediate worry. That shows through in their posts, and causes a focus on the narrow band of "What do I do right now?"

It also tends to contribute to the sale of offers that appeal to someone in that kind of situation. That is a significant chunk of the reason for the hype and promises we see in too many WSOs. And it creates a push on the longer-term thinkers. You cannot often effectively communicate that kind of philosophy to someone who's desperate.

There's also something of an "endless September" effect.

That phrase is from the old Usenet days. Back when Internet connectivity was limited, and the majority of newsgroup access was through colleges, every September brought a new crop of people who had no knowledge of the culture and behavioral norms of Usenet. The craziness lasted typically 6 weeks or so, as the experienced members of the various groups educated the newbies.

When the Internet was opened to the public, and enough people started to come online, the old-timers declared "the endless September." A constant, never-ending parade of people who neither knew nor cared about the way things worked, and had to work, for those groups to function effectively.

Online marketers were one of the chief causes of those problems back then. We're now seeing the impact of something much like it, as the reality of making money on the net has become common knowledge. Mix in the outsourcing of abusive SEO tactics to people in countries where the cost of living is, in American dollars, very low. You've pretty much got the general picture.

I predict another 3 to 5 years before online custom is familiar enough to the majority of people that the abuse drops to the level of constant background noise.

There's a whole other aspect to your question that's not been explored as much as I think it might: Big picture thinkers tend to congregate together. You'll find them in the War Room to some degree, and in some of the sub-forums. You won't see as much of them in main discussion, simply because small thinking repels them, and there's too much focus on minutiae and negativity in a lot of threads.

Not to mention the number of people who post stuff that's both foolish and within the rules, just for the attention. And, of course, the folks who can't be bothered to use appropriate thread titles, or use ridiculous ones to boost readership, as though that's somehow useful. Those things irritate a lot of people, who are then less likely to bother with most threads.

Those are all important factors, but they tend to be counter-balanced by the folks who regularly post useful information and sensible advice. There've always been problems, and there always will be. The only real change from 9 years ago to now is that the span of time has shortened between cycles. That same parade of new members also helps ensure that we've got a regular growth in the number of experienced folks who help push the place upward in value.

It's an evolving society. Change happens.


Paul

I couldn't agree more. Your judgment and thinking is clouded when you're desperate, and the last possible thing you'd want to do when you're in that state of mind is carefully read through long posts and take the time to compose a thoughtful and insightful response.

Just as a side note, I think you'll find more lively and thoughtful discussion transpiring in the War Room as well as the Offline Marketing sub-forum; the Copywriting forum is also pretty interesting.

Paul

How interesting that you think "anti-guru bias" is an accusation that the mods are stupid and out to get people.

After all, we are all moderators here, and if enough people report a thread it disappears. It's not necessary for any of the appointed staff to be stupid or out to get anyone; it's only necessary to have a pervasive anti-guru sentiment in the forum.

Now, HOW many guru-bashing threads get deleted here every day?

Just sayin'.

I agree. If the post truly was "meaty", then I see no reason why it would get deleted. But if it was, then that kinda sucks. I'm not sure how the process goes here, but I like to think at least one of the mods would have a level head about it.

Gurus are in the business of promoting, so they should get viewed with some skeptism if their opinion is given right around a related product launch.

The gurus advice is always "Well, I've known Guru X for a long time, and his stuff is rock solid so you should join if you can". If you listened to them, you'd be broke.

They are in the business of making YOU spend money.

And if you pay attention to my posting habits you'll see that I almost never have anything in my signature except my personal blog (not even my marketing one) and my Facebook page. Never once have I posted an affiliate link in my sig. Not a single time, EVER. I know the rules.

I also run a WSO about once every 3 or 4 months. It's quite obvious to any intelligent person my main focus isn't to come around here to pillage the forum and make money from this place. While I've done well around here, and am appreciative of the place, I've easily lost out on at least 6 figures by not actively participating in the forum and sharing my products/ideas.

But whatever. I'm not bitter about it. I reckon it was just a jealous mod who didn't like the fact that I f*ck off all the time and don't really give a sh*t about marketing as much as I do surfing and playing with my dog, while still making a bunch of money.

I simply ceased posting good stuff. I didn't really bitch about it. I just moved on and decided to do better things.