Outsourcing: India or the Philippines?

141 replies
Hey everyone,

It's time for me to hire a full-time VA or five. Who out there is doing this? Do you go with India or the Philippines? I've heard that Philippines is the way to go, but I'd like to have the security of a large firm that can delegate tasks to other people if one VA gets sick/bails/etc.

Any insights? Thanks!

Russ
#india #outsourcing #philippines
  • Profile picture of the author AverageGuy
    whoever can get the job done. does the country really matter?
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    • Profile picture of the author chrisbiz
      Originally Posted by cooler1 View Post

      If i do ask for a refund do you know if i'll also get a refund from Freelancer? As ive payed Freelancer 3% of the project cost already.
      That is something that I am not sure though, I'm sorry.

      Originally Posted by cbjack View Post

      I'd say both countries can offer good value. I think it eventually boils down to individual service providers. You should choose the ones that will give you the best mix of quality, price & value. You may try and get quotes from companies in both countries and then make a decision. Thanks!
      Originally Posted by KenDare View Post

      Do agree with you, i think country doesn't matter, just they can finish the job well.
      Both you guys are correct that it doesn't matter where the guys will be coming from. However, being educated and learning the backgrounds of each country and each culture will truly helps you in your decision making process.

      If we will just try to seek the real question here is that, this ain't really a question about which country is better? It is not about the countries, on top of that, it is about you the business owner who will do outsourcing your business. You are trying to feel which of these countries, which race, whom you will be more comfortable working with, and will be more productive.

      Fellow warriors are just sharing their personal experiences and it is good, because outsourcing is a very personal/subjective thing, it's case to case basis but having such trends on what others been saying you will have an idea to what it is to outsource in a particular country.

      Though outsourcing is a personal thing, when you are getting started you look at the totality of your options and you tend to generalize things but it's a common tendency, however, its totally up to you whether you will believe what others might be saying about this or that because in the long run it will just be you, who will know what is true and not true once you deal with an individual and that will now transcends where is he/she comes from.

      People are just sharing their experiences, they don't intentionally degrade a certain race/country they are just saying what they felt and thought about their experiences. Those are their experiences, it may happen or may not happen to us. We will just know that when we get there. They just wanna share that they thought will be of value to others.

      Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author WilliamLark
    Country don't matter as long as the price is fair and the person you choice has the skills to complete the job.
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  • Profile picture of the author Palusko
    It depends whether you are looking to hire several individuals, or a firm. Obviously, it may be easier to deal with a firm, as you will have one contact and they do the rest. However it may be easier to motivate individual freelancers, for example give a little bonus now and then when the work is good and brings you money. That way they stay motivated and even if they take too much work, you will enjoy preferential treatment ;-)
    I am not sure what exactly it is you are looking to outsource, but if article writing, I personally found Philippine writers easier to understand, but of course, that is a great generalization, especially because I only dealt with 2 writers from Philippines and 1 from India. It simply depends on English proficiency. But honestly, now I only outsource article writing to English native speakers. With bulk ordering, the price difference between them and Indian writers is not too dramatic, and I have to tell that quality has been better. Then again, these are people I outsource to regularly, so I know what to expect.
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    • Profile picture of the author 247Copywriter
      Originally Posted by AverageGuy View Post

      whoever can get the job done. does the country really matter?
      Originally Posted by WilliamLark View Post

      Country don't matter as long as the price is fair and the person you choice has the skills to complete the job.
      Yes it does matter.

      Out of the two options, the Filipino's win hands down.

      Why?

      No disrespect to Indians but they have far more of a lax attitude when it comes to delivering what you want them to, on time.

      A sweeping generalization perhaps. But unfortunately, it's true.

      Now, the Philippines...

      A/ They have a much better command generally speaking of the English language.

      B/ Their work ethic is much better. They enjoy working especially for American companies and businesses here in the West, as this gives them a certain amount of credibility amongst their family and friends.

      C/ Their work rates are comparable to India without any of the hassle associated with employing people from India. $2-4 p/hr for a VA will get you someone very highly qualified for this position. Most Filipino's have a degree education.

      D/ They are extremely loyal. Treat them well and they'll stay with you for life. Nothing is too much trouble for them.

      In India, the exact opposite is unfortunately true. It's just how it is although some here may beg to differ.

      On a scale of 1-100 - India scores 20 points. The Philippines 85 points.

      No comparison. The choice is obvious from personal experience Russ.
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      • Profile picture of the author drmani
        Originally Posted by 247Copywriter View Post

        No disrespect to Indians but they have far more of a lax attitude when it comes to delivering what you want them to, on time.

        A sweeping generalization perhaps. But unfortunately, it's true.
        ...
        In India, the exact opposite is unfortunately true. It's just how it is although some here may beg to differ.
        These snippets made me smile.

        Scratch that. They made me laugh out loud!

        You simply can't make "sweeping generalizations" about populations of
        the size and diversity of a nation of over 1 BILLION people.

        At least, not ones anyone can take seriously and base decisions upon.



        Chris:

        Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

        The average monthly wage in India is 400 rupees, which is around $8 USD a month, and every single one of them wanted $10 USD an hour, lmao.

        One woman did appear to have good spelling and grammar, however, I am not going to pay 40 times the standard monthly income, which is a complete rip off.

        Chris


        400 rupees will get you 4 value meals at a Mac Donalds!

        I checked with the building contractor who is working on a project next
        door. He pays his mason Rs.300 per DAY - and that's unskilled labor!

        In a city, at least, it's practically impossible to survive on less than 2,000
        rupees, with typical incomes of educated folks (who are likely to be computer
        savvy and handle outsourcing) ranging from Rs.10,000 to 25,000 a month.

        My Internet access charges for broadband average Rs.2,000 a month, usually
        higher.

        So, while 10 USD per hour may be on the higher side, it isn't quite 40x the
        typical/average income.

        All success
        Dr.Mani
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      • Profile picture of the author LiquidSeo
        Originally Posted by 247Copywriter View Post

        Yes it does matter.

        Out of the two options, the Filipino's win hands down.

        Why?

        No disrespect to Indians but they have far more of a lax attitude when it comes to delivering what you want them to, on time.

        A sweeping generalization perhaps. But unfortunately, it's true.

        Now, the Philippines...

        A/ They have a much better command generally speaking of the English language.

        B/ Their work ethic is much better. They enjoy working especially for American companies and businesses here in the West, as this gives them a certain amount of credibility amongst their family and friends.

        C/ Their work rates are comparable to India without any of the hassle associated with employing people from India. $2-4 p/hr for a VA will get you someone very highly qualified for this position. Most Filipino's have a degree education.

        D/ They are extremely loyal. Treat them well and they'll stay with you for life. Nothing is too much trouble for them.

        In India, the exact opposite is unfortunately true. It's just how it is although some here may beg to differ.

        On a scale of 1-100 - India scores 20 points. The Philippines 85 points.

        No comparison. The choice is obvious from personal experience Russ.

        Couldn't agree more - very well said.
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        • Profile picture of the author phweb
          A few thoughts from an American in the Philippines for six years who runs a small outsourcing company.

          First, you get what you pay for and time is money.

          If you could hire an American for $10 an hour who produces work 4x faster (which is almost always the case), you would want to do so.

          Programmers - not worth using Filipinos. Stick with Eastern Europe or yes, India.

          There are very few Filipinos with perfect English. The ones that do have it are already working.

          It would cost a Filipino $100 a month just to run the electric to work for you full time. The internet speed is 10x slower than in a Western country. Forget doing video work.

          If you want to avoid trial and error, you will have to pay more. You will want to use an agent who guarantees the quality of the workers that he places for you. I have a stable of Filipinos I can turn to for most any task.

          Another option is to find an expat living in a Developing country to do the work for you. This is the route I prefer. I know plenty of capable ex-pats here looking for a little work.

          There is no reputable outsourcing company in the Philippines that charges less than $11 an hour for workers.

          That's all for now.
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      • Profile picture of the author Gracey
        Yes I think Philippines is much better, I personally found them more loyal and they are trustworthy to give them your website details and they do the job like you would.
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      • Profile picture of the author kipper
        Originally Posted by 247Copywriter View Post

        Yes it does matter.

        Out of the two options, the Filipino's win hands down.

        Why?

        No disrespect to Indians but they have far more of a lax attitude when it comes to delivering what you want them to, on time.

        A sweeping generalization perhaps. But unfortunately, it's true.

        Now, the Philippines...

        A/ They have a much better command generally speaking of the English language.

        B/ Their work ethic is much better. They enjoy working especially for American companies and businesses here in the West, as this gives them a certain amount of credibility amongst their family and friends.

        C/ Their work rates are comparable to India without any of the hassle associated with employing people from India. $2-4 p/hr for a VA will get you someone very highly qualified for this position. Most Filipino's have a degree education.

        D/ They are extremely loyal. Treat them well and they'll stay with you for life. Nothing is too much trouble for them.

        In India, the exact opposite is unfortunately true. It's just how it is although some here may beg to differ.

        On a scale of 1-100 - India scores 20 points. The Philippines 85 points.

        No comparison. The choice is obvious from personal experience Russ.
        Right on point. I have also worked with these guys and they have a much better rate of return.

        Good luck.

        Kipper
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      • Profile picture of the author Venturetothetop
        Originally Posted by 247Copywriter View Post

        Yes it does matter.

        Out of the two options, the Filipino's win hands down.

        Why?

        No disrespect to Indians but they have far more of a lax attitude when it comes to delivering what you want them to, on time.

        A sweeping generalization perhaps. But unfortunately, it's true.

        Now, the Philippines...

        A/ They have a much better command generally speaking of the English language.

        B/ Their work ethic is much better. They enjoy working especially for American companies and businesses here in the West, as this gives them a certain amount of credibility amongst their family and friends.

        There is a damn good reason why the generation of Indians who moved abroad after Independance have done so well and added so much value to their new countries economies.... hard work, period.

        C/ Their work rates are comparable to India without any of the hassle associated with employing people from India. $2-4 p/hr for a VA will get you someone very highly qualified for this position. Most Filipino's have a degree education.

        D/ They are extremely loyal. Treat them well and they'll stay with you for life. Nothing is too much trouble for them.

        In India, the exact opposite is unfortunately true. It's just how it is although some here may beg to differ.

        On a scale of 1-100 - India scores 20 points. The Philippines 85 points.

        No comparison. The choice is obvious from personal experience Russ.
        No disrespect to Indians BUT im going to completely slate you. Nice one.

        A) What you basically said is that a country that has the highest rate of graduates in the world and has English as a national language can not speak English. You obviously are finding the worng indians.

        b) Ok, so you belive Indians have lousy work ethic.... explains why so many Indian companies are expanding abroad. Must be because lazy people are successful.

        c) India is a rising economy, as another commentor mentioned even Indians outsource their stuff. Your living in a dream world if you think Indians should work for cheap. You get what you pay for, thats how a open market economy works. The actual argument should be that if Indians outsource maybe India isnt going to be the place to find the cheapest worker if that is your prime concern.

        d) Wow - this is amazing, you just said Indians are not at all loyal. Meaning we are all cheats. Yes you implied that by saying in India the exact opposite of being loyal is true.

        What you should have said is that THE INDIANS YOU HAVE DEALT WITH YOU HAVE FOUND THEY DIDNT DELIVER ON TIME ETC.... not slate /sterotype the whole ethnic group.

        Very offensive and racist.
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  • Profile picture of the author 247Copywriter
    Originally Posted by Shin Chan View Post

    who get the best skills let who in.Location never make sence.
    The irony.
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    • Profile picture of the author RussRuffino
      Originally Posted by 247Copywriter View Post

      The irony.
      Hahahahahaha, wow! I laughed out loud when I read that. Wit is alive and well on the WF, it seems.

      Thanks for the tips.

      Russ
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  • Profile picture of the author faceblogger
    Philippines
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    no sig

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  • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
    Australia
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  • Profile picture of the author corsleymaxwell
    I prefer Philippines among the two. However, Australia is best too.
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    • Profile picture of the author marizwords
      Originally Posted by corsleymaxwell View Post

      I prefer Philippines among the two. However, Australia is best too.
      I certainly agree with this. Plus, Filipinos are really smart and diligent workers.
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  • Profile picture of the author affilorama-portal
    Our company employs a good number of people from the Philippines
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  • Profile picture of the author alysemackie
    I've heard Filipinos are very hard working and can be trusted. Try to outsource your work to them.
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  • Profile picture of the author JennSpencerIM
    Russ, in my experience (since I've worked with both) it does really depend because I've found great people and terrible people from each country. But I will say the guy I have in India is SUPERB and does what I need any time of day or night it seems. The guy I have from the Philippines is also great. Beyond that I've had a bunch of others, but for the last 3-4 months have stuck with just these two guys and they are both doing great work. I think with any VA or person you outsource to, you might have to go through a few people before you really strike gold with the right person. So I would start them out on smaller tasks for a few weeks and see how the relationship goes. Hope that helps!
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  • Profile picture of the author smartalex4
    It really is a crap shoot....but I have had by far better luck with the Philippines
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    I have tried outsourcing to India but every single one of them seemed to think I was incredibly dumb. The average monthly wage in India is 400 rupees, which is around $8 USD a month, and every single one of them wanted $10 USD an hour, lmao.

    One woman did appear to have good spelling and grammar, however, I am not going to pay 40 times the standard monthly income, which is a complete rip off.

    Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author singhavn
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      I have tried outsourcing to India but every single one of them seemed to think I was incredibly dumb. The average monthly wage in India is 400 rupees, which is around $8 USD a month, and every single one of them wanted $10 USD an hour, lmao.

      One woman did appear to have good spelling and grammar, however, I am not going to pay 40 times the standard monthly income, which is a complete rip off.

      Chris
      Is this a Joke Chris...........Are you telling the monthy wage of Indians 50 years back? Today I got my electric switch repaired and the electrician charged me Rs 350 for a 5 min work.

      I have tried outsourcing to India but every single one of them seemed to think I was incredibly dumb.
      No offence to you but Now I can imagine why they think so.
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
        Originally Posted by singhavn View Post

        Is this a Joke Chris...........Are you telling the monthy wage of Indians 50 years back? Today I got my electric switch repaired and the electrician charged me Rs 350 for a 5 min work.
        You must live in one of the wealthier states in India then, nor am I looking to hire software engineers or project managers. Even if my numbers are outdated, it doesn't change the fact that at $10 an hour, to hire somebody in India is more expensive then hiring somebody from the United states full time.

        Isn't the point of outsourcing to save money?(without being exploitative of course)

        No offence to you but Now I can imagine why they think so.
        lmao, I deserved that. None taken
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        • Profile picture of the author singhavn
          Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

          You must live in one of the wealthier states in India then, nor am I looking to hire software engineers or project managers. Even if my numbers are outdated, it doesn't change the fact that at $10 an hour, to hire somebody in India is more expensive then hiring somebody from the United states full time.

          Isn't the point of outsourcing to save money?(without being exploitative of course)

          lmao, I deserved that. None taken
          Yes Brother,I live in Delhi, that indeed a wealthier city in India but the guy whome you would be outsourcing to will definetily have a computer and a net connection. If he can afford a computer and an internet, he will definetily not be earning average Rs400/month.

          Just for the info,Indian Govt have reserved the bare minimum daily wage for any worker at Rs150
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          • Profile picture of the author schttrj
            Originally Posted by 247Copywriter View Post

            Yes it does matter.

            Out of the two options, the Filipino's win hands down.

            Why?

            No disrespect to Indians but they have far more of a lax attitude when it comes to delivering what you want them to, on time.

            A sweeping generalization perhaps. But unfortunately, it's true.

            Now, the Philippines...

            A/ They have a much better command generally speaking of the English language.

            B/ Their work ethic is much better. They enjoy working especially for American companies and businesses here in the West, as this gives them a certain amount of credibility amongst their family and friends.

            C/ Their work rates are comparable to India without any of the hassle associated with employing people from India. $2-4 p/hr for a VA will get you someone very highly qualified for this position. Most Filipino's have a degree education.

            D/ They are extremely loyal. Treat them well and they'll stay with you for life. Nothing is too much trouble for them.

            In India, the exact opposite is unfortunately true. It's just how it is although some here may beg to differ.

            On a scale of 1-100 - India scores 20 points. The Philippines 85 points.

            No comparison. The choice is obvious from personal experience Russ.
            You are WELL BIASED towards Philippines, but that's okay. But generalization is a BIG sin! Show me the proven stats and I will believe you Otherwise your comment holds NO value at all.

            Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

            I have tried outsourcing to India but every single one of them seemed to think I was incredibly dumb. The average monthly wage in India is 400 rupees, which is around $8 USD a month, and every single one of them wanted $10 USD an hour, lmao.

            One woman did appear to have good spelling and grammar, however, I am not going to pay 40 times the standard monthly income, which is a complete rip off.

            Chris
            You sure live in WONDERLAND! Get into the reality, bro. And for one, you are working in a global market and NOT in a regional market. When a Indian Forex Trader gains profits or incurs loss, he is not compromised just because he is from India. Know the definition of Return of Investment - that should help you!

            Originally Posted by singhavn View Post

            Just for the info,Indian Govt have reserved the bare minimum daily wage for any worker at Rs150
            That was something even I did not know. But yeah, the daily construction laborers work @ 300INR/day...I know that.

            Moral of the Story: You will find QUALITY in the forests of Africa and the urban town of Las Vegas...You have to know how to hire QUALITY!
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Colle
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      I have tried outsourcing to India but every single one of them seemed to think I was incredibly dumb. The average monthly wage in India is 400 rupees, which is around $8 USD a month, and every single one of them wanted $10 USD an hour, lmao.

      One woman did appear to have good spelling and grammar, however, I am not going to pay 40 times the standard monthly income, which is a complete rip off.

      Chris
      So by that you are saying that since 400 Rupees and you so well state is the average it means that everybody falls in that average?

      I thought average was somehow calculated as the highest wage plus the minimum wage divided by two.

      Having that in mind I would like to ask you not that I am making a case for the Indians or what ever because I personally think they are even working at a very low rate that I don't think I can ever work at. Do you know what the highest wage in India is and has it occur to you just for a second that the person you were treating with actually deserves the maximum?

      And not to get into some polemic on who establishes these minimum or maximum rates and how accurate they are because from my vast knowledge of India I sincerely doubt that there is anybody except maybe the really unqualified and unskilled labor that can work for such a low rate 400Rupee.

      And that is not what you are looking for or is it?
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    • Profile picture of the author tamilseo
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      I have tried outsourcing to India but every single one of them seemed to think I was incredibly dumb. The average monthly wage in India is 400 rupees, which is around $8 USD a month, and every single one of them wanted $10 USD an hour, lmao.

      One woman did appear to have good spelling and grammar, however, I am not going to pay 40 times the standard monthly income, which is a complete rip off.

      Chris
      Where you got these stats? Come to india and you can find what you can do with $8. For $8 you can get a nice dinner in medium sized restaurants that is all.
      I am from India, Salary for tech people is very high here. Broadband cost is very high here compared to USA.
      For a good web designer we have to pay $1000 . If you pay less then you will get crap designs.
      For coders you have to pay Around $1500 to $2000
      In real life you can get newbie VA for link building with less skills for around $250 .

      Article writer salary is around $300 to $400 here that is why i prefer outsource it.
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    • Profile picture of the author SteveSki
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      I have tried outsourcing to India but every single one of them seemed to think I was incredibly dumb. The average monthly wage in India is 400 rupees, which is around $8 USD a month, and every single one of them wanted $10 USD an hour, lmao.

      One woman did appear to have good spelling and grammar, however, I am not going to pay 40 times the standard monthly income, which is a complete rip off.

      Chris
      You simply don't understand how they determine the average wage. When you divide India's entire income by the number of people, including all of the dirt farmers who have no skills other than farming you may get a really low number. But the people living in the cities who have the skills you lack yourself aren't dumb. They know and demand a fair wage and don't appreciate westerners who try to take advantage of them. Remember India is the world's largest Democracy and they have more Honour Roll students than the USA has students.
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
        Originally Posted by SteveSki View Post

        You simply don't understand how they determine the average wage. When you divide India's entire income by the number of people, including all of the dirt farmers who have no skills other than farming you may get a really low number. But the people living in the cities who have the skills you lack yourself aren't dumb. They know and demand a fair wage and don't appreciate westerners who try to take advantage of them. Remember India is the world's largest Democracy and they have more Honour Roll students than the USA has students.
        Did you read the whole thread, or did you just hit the reply button?

        Chris
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        • Profile picture of the author 247Copywriter
          I think quite a few people Chris must just hit on the reply button without reading everything to get the full context.

          Shame really. Or they just speed read, taking out the parts which niggle them without looking at the whole picture of what has been written in context.

          Obviously one or two missed one of my first points... "No disrespect..."

          Ah well, it is what it is.
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    • Profile picture of the author pleskTR
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      I have tried outsourcing to India but every single one of them seemed to think I was incredibly dumb. The average monthly wage in India is 400 rupees, which is around $8 USD a month, and every single one of them wanted $10 USD an hour, lmao.

      One woman did appear to have good spelling and grammar, however, I am not going to pay 40 times the standard monthly income, which is a complete rip off.

      Chris
      $8/Month... Hmmm... Can you please show me the source from where you collected this data?

      I would like to correct you, here. The average wage $8/Month in India is for poor class laborers and not for the tech people.

      In India, technical people are getting around $400-$600 Month at an average.

      Do you think, that your VA who is owning a computer and an internet connection is earning $8/Month? You are talking about average income, but is it the average income of a VA? Because, we are talking about hiring a VA and not talking about the average income as a whole.

      Definitely, you want a VA and not a laborer. $10/Hour is a bit higher but $8/month is not at all to talk about.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dominium
        Originally Posted by pleskTR View Post

        $8/Month... Hmmm... Can you please show me the source from where you collected this data?

        I would like to correct you, here. The average wage $8/Month in India is for poor class laborers and not for the tech people.

        In India, technical people are getting around $400-$600 Month at an average.

        Do you think, that your VA who is owning a computer and an internet connection is earning $8/Month? You are talking about average income, but is it the average income of a VA? Because, we are talking about hiring a VA and not talking about the average income as a whole.

        Definitely, you want a VA and not a laborer. $10/Hour is a bit higher but $8/month is not at all to talk about.

        Chris already answered to this a couple of times :-) Read the whole thread please.
        Cheers!
        Dominium
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    • Profile picture of the author ruch1v
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      I have tried outsourcing to India but every single one of them seemed to think I was incredibly dumb. The average monthly wage in India is 400 rupees, which is around $8 USD a month, and every single one of them wanted $10 USD an hour, lmao.

      One woman did appear to have good spelling and grammar, however, I am not going to pay 40 times the standard monthly income, which is a complete rip off.

      Chris
      Stuff like this really does get my goat, I'm a UK born and based Indian but I've been to India a good 12-15 times, so a have a good grasp of the place.

      I don't know what the average salary in India is but I'm sure as heck it's higher than 400 rupees. but whatever the average salary is is irrelevant as we have to remember that the majority of the population is poor, I spent a month there back in September and the some of the poverty I saw was devastating, but I can guarantee you that the beggars on the street who can't read or write in Hindi, nevermind English are making more than 400 rupees/month. Whatever the average salary in India is would be way below what you'd expect to pay for a VA, because the average salary would most likely apply to labourers (e.g the Mason example Dr Mani mentioned), not to educated folk who can read and write English and have the money to own a computer and have broadband connections (sidenote, all of my cousins in India have MACs and Iphones, if the 400 rupee thing were true, each one of them would have to save up for over 23years to pay for that)

      Another thing, India has the second largest population in the world, over a billion people! Anyone who thinks they can try 1 or 2 VAs from India and then try to generalise about the whole country needs to sort themselves out, I mean seriously, am I the only one who can see how ridiculous that is?

      I remember reading somewhere a few years ago that 40% of Doctors in the US are Indian, it's funny how you can trust an Indian to save your life but think twice about one writing an article for you.

      This isn't me trying to say that Indians are all amazing and that's the only place you should outsource, I'm just trying to clear some ridiculous misconceptions on this thread, I've hired both Indians and Filipinos and will continue to hire folks on their skill sets and not their nationality, I hope I've inspired some of you to do the same.

      Ruchi
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      • Profile picture of the author Christina Osorio
        I am in the US and outsource both to India and the Philippines. It is extremely unintelligent to make sweeping comments about an entire culture/population based on limited experience. Bash me if you will but that is the truth. There are not enough of us even if we collect all of our experiences and quantify the outcomes it still results in useless information. We are not enough people. At the end of the day it is trial and error. Truth be told the perfect situation would be to hire US based employees to do quality work at lightening speed on perfect deadline with zero error. Right? Right. We are looking for a perfect scenario from less than perfect sources for the least amount of money that we can possibly pay and then we want to complain about it. So lets back up a minute..all things considered we are going to get what we pay for no matter where we go and many things will contribute to the outcome. In my opinion these things help:

        1. Be a good boss
        2. Be clear about the project
        3. Be clear about the pay
        4. Be clear about the deadline/no flexibility
        5. Have a review date 1/2 way threw the project
        6. Provide feedback/be honest no matter what

        And I know some took offense to this but it is true that you get what you pay for. You ever hear of the Law of Attraction? If you are going to be an ass and treat prospects as if they are second rate from the get go that's what you are going to get. Treat prospects with respect until they give you reason not too.

        I have had excellent VA's from every country I have hired from. I have also had a few very poor VA's one from Philippines, one designer from India and one coder from the US.
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        • Profile picture of the author ruch1v
          Originally Posted by co765 View Post

          I am in the US and outsource both to India and the Philippines. It is extremely unintelligent to make sweeping comments about an entire culture/population based on limited experience. Bash me if you will but that is the truth. There are not enough of us even if we collect all of our experiences and quantify the outcomes it still results in useless information. We are not enough people. At the end of the day it is trial and error. Truth be told the perfect situation would be to hire US based employees to do quality work at lightening speed on perfect deadline with zero error. Right? Right. We are looking for a perfect scenario from less than perfect sources for the least amount of money that we can possibly pay and then we want to complain about it. So lets back up a minute..all things considered we are going to get what we pay for no matter where we go and many things will contribute to the outcome. In my opinion these things help:

          1. Be a good boss
          2. Be clear about the project
          3. Be clear about the pay
          4. Be clear about the deadline/no flexibility
          5. Have a review date 1/2 way threw the project
          6. Provide feedback/be honest no matter what

          And I know some took offense to this but it is true that you get what you pay for. You ever hear of the Law of Attraction? If you are going to be an ass and treat prospects as if they are second rate from the get go that's what you are going to get. Treat prospects with respect until they give you reason not too.

          I have had excellent VA's from every country I have hired from. I have also had a few very poor VA's one from Philippines, one designer from India and one coder from the US.

          You're spot on
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    • Profile picture of the author cpadualcore
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      I have tried outsourcing to India but every single one of them seemed to think I was incredibly dumb. The average monthly wage in India is 400 rupees, which is around $8 USD a month, and every single one of them wanted $10 USD an hour, lmao.

      One woman did appear to have good spelling and grammar, however, I am not going to pay 40 times the standard monthly income, which is a complete rip off.

      Chris
      I disagree . I wonder how you came up with the $8 figure. . Average monthly income in India comes to around 1/6th of that in US. So the average monthly income in US will come around $50 per month according to your assumption. .I doubt its highly unlikely. And asking $10 per hour is not much of a rip off if he/she can provide quality work.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      I have tried outsourcing to India but every single one of them seemed to think I was incredibly dumb. The average monthly wage in India is 400 rupees, which is around $8 USD a month, and every single one of them wanted $10 USD an hour, lmao.

      One woman did appear to have good spelling and grammar, however, I am not going to pay 40 times the standard monthly income, which is a complete rip off.

      Chris
      I'm with you, Chris, though I can say this about the Philippines. Just last night, I emailed a few resumes I found on Craigslist Manilla looking for someone to setup Wordpress blogs with themes, plugins, articles, etc.

      I got quoted $9/hr by one guy, $60/blog from another.

      Are you freaking kidding me? A teacher in the Philippines makes about $250/month. An engineer about $400/month. And these people want $1200+ a month?

      I'm not an idiot.
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      • Profile picture of the author opiel
        Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

        I'm with you, Chris, though I can say this about the Philippines. Just last night, I emailed a few resumes I found on Craigslist Manilla looking for someone to setup Wordpress blogs with themes, plugins, articles, etc.

        I got quoted $9/hr by one guy, $60/blog from another.

        Are you freaking kidding me? A teacher in the Philippines makes about $250/month. An engineer about $400/month. And these people want $1200+ a month?

        I'm not an idiot.

        Isn't it amazing how dumb and misinformed some people can be. What is even worse... they seem proud of it!
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        • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
          Originally Posted by opiel View Post

          This post is patently absurd and veritably begs for derisive laughter.
          Originally Posted by opiel View Post

          Isn't it amazing how dumb and misinformed some people can be. What is even worse... they seem proud of it!
          Isn't it amazing how many idiots there are who hit the reply or quote button before reading the whole thread, completely missing the point of the post and subsequent posts thereafter, proceeding to make an ass of themselves, who seem to think they are being pretty smart.

          Chris
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          • Profile picture of the author opiel
            Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

            Isn't it amazing how many idiots there are who hit the reply or quote button before reading the whole thread, completely missing the point of the post and subsequent posts thereafter, proceeding to make an ass of themselves, who seem to think they are being pretty smart.

            Chris
            Chris, in my case it is simple... my IQ has been tested and I would imagine that at 158 I am not the dumbest dude on the block.

            Don't tell me about not reading the whole thread. Actually, I would advise you to read your post one more time. Perhaps this time you will notice how arrogant and insulting it is... not to mention its ignorance.

            Yes, trying to imply that someone's services are too expensive only because she/he is from India or Philippines is outright insulting.

            I know that you will try to deny this but after reading your post, and the one posted by Bruce Wedding, I can hardly resist an impression that it is perfectly fine for you and him to try to make as much money as each of you can.

            But if some dude from India or Philippines is trying to do the same... he is just a greedy *******! Am I correct?
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            • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
              Originally Posted by opiel View Post

              Chris, in my case it is simple... my IQ has been tested and I would imagine that at 158 I am not the dumbest dude on the block.
              Now who's being arrogant?

              Don't tell me about not reading the whole thread. Actually, I would advise you to read your post one more time. Perhaps this time you will notice how arrogant and insulting it is... not to mention its ignorance.
              Reread the thread

              Yes, trying to imply that someone's services are too expensive only because she/he is from India or Philippines is outright insulting.
              Do you know what a gambit is in relation to wages? It is where you quote an outrageous some of money you know you will never get, but will help you get a higher wage than normal once the negotiations have been settled(For example, sombody in the Phillipines quotes me $1000 a month when they will take $400) In Bruces case, if he had said what he was prepared to pay them, more often than not the phillipino worker would have accepted, but he has never outsourced work there before and would not have known better.

              Why would I pay somebody in India $400 a week(Thats is nearly 1 million rupee a year) when I can go to the Phillipines and pay less than that for the month for the same work? Or when I can hire somebody in the United states who is college educated and English is their first language for the same a week?

              I have a sneaking suspicion you do know know anything about outsourcing.

              I know that you will try to deny this but after reading your post, and the one posted by Bruce Wedding, I can hardly resist an impression that it is perfectly fine for you and him to try to make as much money as each of you can.
              Perhaps you should move to China if you hate capitalism so much, isn't outsourcing supposed to be more cost efficient?

              But if some dude from India or Philippines is trying to do the same... he is just a greedy *******! Am I correct?
              Reread my response about what a gambit is, and my response to you just above this one.

              Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author opiel
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      I have tried outsourcing to India but every single one of them seemed to think I was incredibly dumb. The average monthly wage in India is 400 rupees, which is around $8 USD a month, and every single one of them wanted $10 USD an hour, lmao.

      One woman did appear to have good spelling and grammar, however, I am not going to pay 40 times the standard monthly income, which is a complete rip off.

      Chris

      This post is patently absurd and veritably begs for derisive laughter.
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  • Profile picture of the author claudemai
    I also recommend Filipino worker, Filipino workers work really hard as long as they receive the payment. The service they provide is a quality work.
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  • Profile picture of the author ukbuddy2
    Finding the right person who can work with you and sees your goals at the same time is really important. So where ever you may be as long as you can deliver, you will definitely be one great choice. I am just starting looking for VA, so i think i will stick to what you guys are talking about on two options. So far we can see who is better in this note.
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  • Profile picture of the author derrickschwan
    Philippines for low rate and high quality work.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sphinx
    Speaking from my personal experience, I have outsourced to both Indians and Filipinos for article writing and rewriting, I can't say who is better than the other, I did have a good writer from India, so as from Philippines. But now I'm using Singaporean Secondary students, and they are the best so far, and have the sense of responsibility in delivering their works.

    You may try to find some at youth.sg forum...
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    on our news in oz tonight, many Australian companies have still not been paid from the games held and many companies are owed millions.

    India has been dubbed in oz as /

    I = I'll
    N = Never
    D = Do
    I = It
    A = Again

    disclaimer not making personal calls just expressing how the media / oz business now see India for business.
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    • Profile picture of the author tom4business
      There was a huge huge scam they did along with CWG (The scam was better than the games :rolleyes and many of the games organizers were arrested last month. So it's obvious that it's gonna take time before the Aussies get their money in bank.

      Coming back to the topic, outsourcing to India is good if you are dealing with a well established firm. But if you're gonna ask people to sit at home and do tasks, that's not going to work out. They work very well under pressure, with strict monitoring. But that would spoil the whole purpose of keeping VA's. Having said this, if you can find people and get into arrangements such as "pay for performance", then things will work fine.

      Philippines is always the better place for finding people as VA's. Most of them are really hard working and honest.

      The best thing about them is that, they're willing to learn on their own.

      All the best.

      Tom



      Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

      on our news in oz tonight, many Australian companies have still not been paid from the games held and many companies are owed millions.

      India has been dubbed in oz as /

      I = I'll
      N = Never
      D = Do
      I = It
      A = Again

      disclaimer not making personal calls just expressing how the media / oz business now see India for business.
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      • Profile picture of the author chrisbiz
        Originally Posted by Pat Jackson View Post

        I've had nothing but bad experiences outsourcing to people from India and nothing but good experiences outsourcing to people from the Phillipines.

        Obviously this is only over a small sample size and isn't conducive that one place is better than the other, but people from the Phillipines have always been best, from my experiences, and I'll continue to hire people from there.
        I'm happy to hear that.

        Thank you guys for giving such opportunities to my fellows, though they may be indeed qualified for the job, but without your willingness to entrust those things they will never prove their capabilities and trustworthiness, let me thank you for that.

        Chris


        Originally Posted by tom4business View Post

        There was a huge huge scam they did along with CWG (The scam was better than the games :rolleyes and many of the games organizers were arrested last month. So it's obvious that it's gonna take time before the Aussies get their money in bank.

        Coming back to the topic, outsourcing to India is good if you are dealing with a well established firm. But if you're gonna ask people to sit at home and do tasks, that's not going to work out. They work very well under pressure, with strict monitoring. But that would spoil the whole purpose of keeping VA's. Having said this, if you can find people and get into arrangements such as "pay for performance", then things will work fine.

        Philippines is always the better place for finding people as VA's. Most of them are really hard working and honest.

        The best thing about them is that, they're willing to learn on their own.

        All the best.

        Tom
        Philippines made it to one of the top outsourcing destinations in the world, definitely with reasons.

        That is, WE ARE HONEST and HARDWORKING, WILLING and can EASILY be train in anything. Again it will not necessarily applies to all the Filipinos BUT I am confident that the majority of us is like that.

        Believe me!!!

        Chris
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        • Profile picture of the author arcadiasmith
          Filipino freelancers are really great worker's. The quality of their work is very different from other free lancer workers from India.. Thumbs up to Filipino freelancers.
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        • Profile picture of the author greatscot
          Originally Posted by chrisbiz View Post

          I'm happy to hear that.

          Thank you guys for giving such opportunities to my fellows, though they may be indeed qualified for the job, but without your willingness to entrust those things they will never prove their capabilities and trustworthiness, let me thank you for that.

          Chris




          Philippines made it to one of the top outsourcing destinations in the world, definitely with reasons.

          That is, WE ARE HONEST and HARDWORKING, WILLING and can EASILY be train in anything. Again it will not necessarily applies to all the Filipinos BUT I am confident that the majority of us is like that.

          Believe me!!!

          Chris
          Hi Chris, can you pm me I dont have 50 posts yet, looking for VA`s
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    • Profile picture of the author Venturetothetop
      Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

      on our news in oz tonight, many Australian companies have still not been paid from the games held and many companies are owed millions.

      India has been dubbed in oz as /

      I = I'll
      N = Never
      D = Do
      I = It
      A = Again

      .
      Wow - I find your comments both racist and offensive.
      If we are talking CWG - yes their was a problem, however it was uncovered and is being dealt with legally. Of course that means some payments are backed up as they are checked for ireegularities but the Government of India guaranteed everyones money and has never not paid any dues when they say they will....

      As for the anti India slant on this thread, and ive seen it a few times on the warrior forum. Aussies have had an issue with the 'harrassing' of India students within their own country for some time as seen in Western media, so no wonder they come out with anti India rhetoric...

      As a person of Indian descent I have found many post in this friend extremely distasteful and I repeat the remarks of another poster, that you cannot taint a country of one billion with your impression of just a few of them.

      Perhaps some of your bad experience are down to your lack of due diligence.

      I'm a damn hard worker, and am well respected in my professional work area, shame that I would be judged by many of you by my roots and not my ability.
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
        Dee, read below,

        Originally Posted by Venturetothetop View Post

        As for the anti India slant on this thread, and ive seen it a few times on the warrior forum. Aussies have had an issue with the 'harrassing' of India students within their own country for some time as seen in Western media, so no wonder they come out with anti India rhetoric...
        Then you proceed to say:

        Originally Posted by Venturetothetop View Post

        As a person of Indian descent I have found many post in this friend extremely distasteful and I repeat the remarks of another poster, that you cannot taint a country of one billion with your impression of just a few of them.
        Perhaps you should practice what you preach.

        Respectfully

        Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author chrisbiz
    PHILIPPINES!!!

    I'm sure it's not a mortal sin by being bias and being objective all in the same time. I am speaking on behalf of the Filipino people and on behalf of all other marketers worked with Filipino outsourcing service providers.

    We may not be the highly skilled and knowledgeable race in the world, but we are somewhere on top if we will talk reliability and trustworthiness. Something that you just can't teach to anyone, it's innate in our culture. However, outsourcing needs some testing, and it's not a one time hit-the-target thing that you will be successful the first time, good for you if you will.

    It will takes a lot of testing, testing, and testing.

    It will not just require you to invest your money but you need to invest more time and other resources to be successful, and it will entails a lot of consideration, patience, and understanding on your end.

    Are you willing to take on the challenge?

    Goodluck.

    Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author halfpoint
      I've had nothing but bad experiences outsourcing to people from India and nothing but good experiences outsourcing to people from the Phillipines.

      Obviously this is only over a small sample size and isn't conducive that one place is better than the other, but people from the Phillipines have always been best, from my experiences, and I'll continue to hire people from there.
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  • Profile picture of the author faysal969
    I thinks Country may not be a great fact. You should think about quality.

    All freelancers from a country never be with the same quality and proficiency.

    If you want to write articles then you should choose native English speaker.

    Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author cooler1
    I hired an outsourcer from India on Freelancer in December to create 5 site's for $600. They were due to start work on the project 25th December but then in early January he emailed me to say that his father has become ill so he has to delay the project until at least 15th January.

    I agreed to waiting until 15th January because i had already payed him $40 as an upfront payment and payed the fee's to Freelancer plus i didn't want the hassle of finding another outsourcer. Do you think im being strung along? The project should have been near enough complete now, im getting annoyed by the whole thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author tom4business
      That's a common excuse they give you. But let me tell you, if you're hiring freelancers, don't expect any kind of loyalty from them. Most of these guys bid for almost every project out there and they don't really look at the volume they can handle. This guy would have got another project and must be buying time. But then again, I could be wrong as well.

      One thing I like about guys from Philippines is their loyalty. I've got people who work with me for almost 2 years now. They know what's best to do, even if I don't train them for each and every stuff.


      Originally Posted by cooler1 View Post

      I hired an outsourcer from India on Freelancer in December to create 5 site's for $600. They were due to start work on the project 25th December but then in early January he emailed me to say that his father has become ill so he has to delay the project until at least 15th January.

      I agreed to waiting until 15th January because i had already payed him $40 as an upfront payment and payed the fee's to Freelancer plus i didn't want the hassle of finding another outsourcer. Do you think im being strung along? The project should have been near enough complete now, im getting annoyed by the whole thing.
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      • Profile picture of the author chrisbiz
        Originally Posted by tom4business View Post

        One thing I like about guys from Philippines is their loyalty. I've got people who work with me for almost 2 years now. They know what's best to do, even if I don't train them for each and every stuff.
        INITIATIVE is the term.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sandor Verebi
        Hi Russ,

        Just a simple question. We are here on the Warrior Forum. What do you think: you would not be appropriate to look around here at the 'warriors for hire' section?

        It may be that I think badly, but perhaps you may find information about the candidate's work at first hand.

        Best,

        Sandor
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    • Profile picture of the author chrisbiz
      Originally Posted by arcadiasmith View Post

      Filipino freelancers are really great worker's. The quality of their work is very different from other free lancer workers from India.. Thumbs up to Filipino freelancers.
      Thank you.

      Great business owners deserves great workers too.

      Thumbs up to good business owners treating their workers very well.


      Originally Posted by cooler1 View Post

      I hired an outsourcer from India on Freelancer in December to create 5 site's for $600. They were due to start work on the project 25th December but then in early January he emailed me to say that his father has become ill so he has to delay the project until at least 15th January.

      I agreed to waiting until 15th January because i had already payed him $40 as an upfront payment and payed the fee's to Freelancer plus i didn't want the hassle of finding another outsourcer. Do you think im being strung along? The project should have been near enough complete now, im getting annoyed by the whole thing.
      Everyone is entitled of the benefit of that doubt but not for too long.

      It may be that his father became ill and it's his responsibility as a son to take care of his father. However, he got himself into a contract with you that will establish an obligation on his end to fulfill what has been contracted for.

      You have the right to demand!!!

      Demand for the full completion of contract or just demand a refund.

      About the hassle, both ways you will experience this, you just need to choose which one is less hassle.

      The hassle of finding someone else that may lead to the completion of the project?

      or

      The hassle of waiting, wandering, bothering, and worrying if the project will be completed?

      You choose.

      Chris
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      • Profile picture of the author cooler1
        Originally Posted by chrisbiz View Post

        Everyone is entitled of the benefit of that doubt but not for too long.

        It may be that his father became ill and it's his responsibility as a son to take care of his father. However, he got himself into a contract with you that will establish an obligation on his end to fulfill what has been contracted for.

        You have the right to demand!!!

        Demand for the full completion of contract or just demand a refund.

        About the hassle, both ways you will experience this, you just need to choose which one is less hassle.

        The hassle of finding someone else that may lead to the completion of the project?

        or

        The hassle of waiting, wandering, bothering, and worrying if the project will be completed?

        You choose.

        Chris
        If i do ask for a refund do you know if i'll also get a refund from Freelancer? As ive payed Freelancer 3% of the project cost already.
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        • Profile picture of the author Pragun
          Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

          I have tried outsourcing to India but every single one of them seemed to think I was incredibly dumb. The average monthly wage in India is 400 rupees, which is around $8 USD a month, and every single one of them wanted $10 USD an hour, lmao.

          One woman did appear to have good spelling and grammar, however, I am not going to pay 40 times the standard monthly income, which is a complete rip off.

          Chris
          At the risk of sounding rude Chris, that is possibly the dumbest and most offensive thing I've ever heard in my life.
          The boxers that I'm wearing right now cost Rs 400, and I come from a very middle class family, so that should tell you something about the "average monthly income" you're talking about.
          I go out to have a round of drinks at a decent pub and I spend Rs 2000. That's 5 times the monthly income according to you.
          The Pair of jeans that I'm wearing right now cost Rs. 1600. 4 times the average monthly income.

          Shoes, Socks, Undergarments, Jacket and Accessories included, I'm wearing clothes that are roughly 20 - 30 times the average monthly income.

          While, unfortunately, I have to agree with the comment that 247Copywriter makes because it's somewhat true, I could not stand to look at the grossly disfigured numbers you're talking about on this forum.

          The next time you go on to suggest something of the sort, do some research first.
          Originally Posted by 247Copywriter View Post

          Yes it does matter.

          Out of the two options, the Filipino's win hands down.

          Why?

          No disrespect to Indians but they have far more of a lax attitude when it comes to delivering what you want them to, on time.

          A sweeping generalization perhaps. But unfortunately, it's true.

          Now, the Philippines...

          A/ They have a much better command generally speaking of the English language.

          B/ Their work ethic is much better. They enjoy working especially for American companies and businesses here in the West, as this gives them a certain amount of credibility amongst their family and friends.

          C/ Their work rates are comparable to India without any of the hassle associated with employing people from India. $2-4 p/hr for a VA will get you someone very highly qualified for this position. Most Filipino's have a degree education.

          D/ They are extremely loyal. Treat them well and they'll stay with you for life. Nothing is too much trouble for them.

          In India, the exact opposite is unfortunately true. It's just how it is although some here may beg to differ.

          On a scale of 1-100 - India scores 20 points. The Philippines 85 points.

          No comparison. The choice is obvious from personal experience Russ.
          Hi 247Copywriter,

          While there's a lot of generalization in what you've said and a lot of it is pretty offensive to me and my people, I do respect your opinion.
          Some things that you've said are, unfortunately, true and there would be no point in denying them.

          At least you were courteous when you pointed them out.

          ~ Pragun
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          • Profile picture of the author 247Copywriter
            Originally Posted by Pragun View Post

            Hi 247Copywriter,

            While there's a lot of generalization in what you've said and a lot of it is pretty offensive to me and my people, I do respect your opinion.
            Some things that you've said are, unfortunately, true and there would be no point in denying them.

            At least you were courteous when you pointed them out.

            ~ Pragun
            If this little fact is undisputable and unequivocally true Pragun by your own admission about your country and it's reputation with regards to outsourcing... how can it possibly be offensive?

            The real offenders in this case are not other opinions of nationals from their respective countries, the real offenders in this case must be your own people for garnering this kind of negative reputation.

            Perhaps if a lot more of them changed their work ethic, other people from these other countries, would all be glowing in their high praise for Indian workers online?

            The change needs to start at home.

            Perhaps more Indians could look at the Filipino workers and think to themselves...

            "What are they doing right that we're not, in order for us collectively to gain this same high praise and good reputation online?"

            What do you think?
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            • Profile picture of the author drmani
              Originally Posted by 247Copywriter View Post

              The real offenders in this case are not other opinions of nationals
              from their respective countries, the real offenders in this case
              must be your own people for garnering this kind of negative reputation.

              Perhaps if a lot more of them changed their work ethic, other people
              from these other countries, would all be glowing in their high
              praise for Indian workers online?
              ...
              What do you think?
              Some information (versus 'opinion') about the reality of India's
              brand, perception and value in the information technology sector, fyi.
              (Updated December 2010)

              "...the IT-BPO industry is estimated to aggregate revenues of US$ 73.1
              billion in FY2010, with the IT software and services industry accounting
              for US$ 63.7 billion of revenues."


              and

              "Outsourcing

              India is a preferred destination for companies looking to offshore their
              IT and back-office functions. It also retains its low-cost advantage and
              is a financially attractive location when viewed in combination with the
              business environment it offers and the availability of skilled people."


              Source: Information Technology

              All success
              Dr.Mani
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              • Profile picture of the author drmani
                The confusion/conflict in understanding the 'reality' of India's brand
                as an Information technology super-power lies in judging a national
                workforce by sampling freelance work-from-homers - and drawing
                sweeping conclusions that apply to everyone who does outsourcing
                types of work.

                It's why I remarked earlier that relying on anecdotal evidence to
                recommend/analyze a population of 1 billion+ was laughable.

                All success
                Dr.Mani
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                • Profile picture of the author 247Copywriter
                  Originally Posted by drmani View Post

                  The confusion/conflict in understanding the 'reality' of India's brand
                  as an Information technology super-power lies in judging a national
                  workforce by sampling freelance work-from-homers - and drawing
                  sweeping conclusions that apply to everyone who does outsourcing
                  types of work.

                  It's why I remarked earlier that relying on anecdotal evidence to
                  recommend/analyze a population of 1 billion+ was laughable.

                  All success
                  Dr.Mani
                  The facts speak for themselves.

                  An overwhelming majority of the people in this thread have voted hands down for the Philippines.

                  There must be a reason for that.

                  If you would like to take this up privately, please be my guest.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by 247Copywriter View Post

                    The facts speak for themselves.

                    haha

                    You keep getting "facts" mixed up with "opinions". I have to agree with Dr Mani, you are basing your "facts" on an incredibly small sample.

                    How many people in this thread picked Philippines so it must be true. If you can't see how illogical that is then there is no hope for you.

                    I have had the pleasure of working with a good deal of Indian programmers when I was a supervisor for the Australian government. They were very good people and programmers.

                    They were there every day and a lot of them worked quite a bit of overtime. They got the job done to specifications and always asked questions when things were not clear.

                    You won't find these people for $1 an hour. So maybe you are just not paying enough. Try paying more and then you might be able to get your "facts" straight.
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                    • Profile picture of the author 247Copywriter
                      Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                      haha

                      You keep getting "facts" mixed up with "opinions". I have to agree with Dr Mani, you are basing your "facts" on an incredibly small sample.

                      How many people in this thread picked Philippines so it must be true. If you can't see how illogical that is then there is no hope for you.

                      I have had the pleasure of working with a good deal of Indian programmers when I was a supervisor for the Australian government. They were very good people and programmers.

                      They were there every day and a lot of them worked quite a bit of overtime. They got the job done to specifications and always asked questions when things were not clear.

                      You won't find these people for $1 an hour. So maybe you are just not paying enough. Try paying more and then you might be able to get your "facts" straight.
                      Get your facts straight yourself Thomas.

                      I'm a customer of your business and I don't appreciate being spoken to like that as one of your customers.

                      Yes, Indians are brilliant for their programming skills, there is no denying that but we're not talking about programmers are we? Unless it's escaped your notice, we're talking about employing VA's.

                      I don't quite understand what it is one or two of you are getting up in arms about. I have my opinion and I stated it in response to the original post requesting assistance on this issue.

                      At least I gave what help I could rather than openly criticizing others for being helpful. :rolleyes:
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                      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by 247Copywriter View Post

                        Get your facts straight yourself Thomas.

                        I'm a customer of your business and I don't appreciate being spoken to like that as one of your customers.
                        I am entitled to my opinion just as you are. I am sorry to bruise your ego but pushing your opinion off as facts and stating that others in this thread have proven your facts is just plain silly.

                        It is irrelevant that you are my customer when it comes to posting our opinions on this forum.



                        Yes, Indians are brilliant for their programming skills, there is no denying that but we're not talking about programmers are we? Unless it's escaped your notice, we're talking about employing VA's.
                        I thought we were talking about outsourcing to India or Philippines? No, not all Indians are brilliant in programming. Is that another fact or an opinion because I can't tell anymore.

                        It makes you wonder how India became a huge outsourcing giant. Maybe the really good ones are getting paid more then you are willing to give?

                        I don't quite understand what it is one or two of you are getting up in arms about. I have my opinion and I stated it in response to the original post requesting assistance on this issue.
                        No problem posting your opinion if you stopped there. You tried to make your opinion a universal law.



                        At least I gave what help I could rather than openly criticizing others for being helpful. :rolleyes:
                        No, you actually may have hurt people instead of helping them with your so called facts. It is great to relay your opinions and experience but when you starting quoting these as facts then you will get criticized.

                        That was the whole point I and others in this thread were trying to make.
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                        • Profile picture of the author 247Copywriter
                          Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                          I am entitled to my opinion just as you are.
                          Sure doesn't look like you allow anyone else to be entitled to their opinion to me Thomas. Not based on what you've written here.

                          Plenty of people found what I said to be useful to them re: my opinion on this subject. Not only did they thank me for my views on this matter but I also received several PM messages too, thanking me for my thoughts and insight.

                          As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with this subject since one or two of you it seems... just want to argue just for the sake of it.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by 247Copywriter View Post

                            Sure doesn't look like you allow anyone else to be entitled to their opinion to me Thomas. Not based on what you've written here.
                            All I saw was facts from you, not opinions.


                            Plenty of people found what I said to be useful to them re: my opinion on this subject. Not only did they thank me for my views on this matter but I also received several PM messages too, thanking me for my thoughts and insight.
                            Great job!

                            As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with this subject since one or two of you it seems... just want to argue just for the sake of it.
                            Is that a fact?
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                            • Profile picture of the author 247Copywriter
                              Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                              All I saw was facts from you, not opinions.
                              I thought that was what you were after Thomas, facts, not opinions?

                              Look, if you have a problem with me on this subject... PM to discuss further.

                              Thanks.
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                  • Profile picture of the author drmani
                    Originally Posted by 247Copywriter View Post

                    An overwhelming majority of the people in this thread have voted hands down for the Philippines.
                    Oops! My mistake.

                    I didn't realize this was a popular vote.

                    By that token, sure, 'Philippines' wins hands-down, by a show of hands
                    ON THIS THREAD

                    My information was shared with a view to help with making a business
                    decision, though. Hope it helps some who are reading this.

                    No offense intended, Sally.

                    All success
                    Dr.Mani
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  • Profile picture of the author cbjack
    I'd say both countries can offer good value. I think it eventually boils down to individual service providers. You should choose the ones that will give you the best mix of quality, price & value. You may try and get quotes from companies in both countries and then make a decision. Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author mesen
    Anyone know of good Filipino firm? Or places to find them?
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Colle
      Originally Posted by mesen View Post

      Anyone know of good Filipino firm? Or places to find them?
      They are full on odesk you can get as many as you wish.
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      • Profile picture of the author mesen
        Originally Posted by Robert Colle View Post

        They are full on odesk you can get as many as you wish.
        Thanks Rob!
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    • Profile picture of the author magiclouie
      Originally Posted by mesen View Post

      Anyone know of good Filipino firm? Or places to find them?
      Helo mesen, please pm me if you need my help. I can surely be of assistance.
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  • Profile picture of the author Trinidad
    Dont choose which country is better. PPl have different intelligent and you should take a sample test with them to see if they are qaulify and then you can decide later. I see both Indian and filipin are good at article writting and seo as well
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  • Hi Russ! Sure wish I could help out, though we're booked and have a
    waiting list of clients at the moment, some of whom are warriors... I own
    and run a 5-year old ICT (Information & Communications Technology)
    outsourcing firm here in Manila -- You can read my sig for our startup story...

    Anyway, I regularly work with subcontractor programming firms and
    independent programmer colleagues for our external and internal software
    projects... Having self learned programming myself 8 months ago, I noticed
    you get great programming expertise from people in India --- Have worked
    with a lot of Filipino programmers here, and they aren't as good as my colleagues in India... Though of course I also encountered some with so so
    skills, and to think they're marketing themselves as experts, which I can
    easily spot now since I know what I'm looking for, and have also noticed
    the great guys I work with charge reasonably higher rates than those who
    lack the expertise I need: For instance, I regularly work with an
    independent subcontractor colleague of mine for software projects, and he
    charges $20/hour, while others telling everybody they have the skills to complete projects, though don't in reality, charge $8/hour tops...

    Advice: For content writing, marketing and SEO/SEM tasks among others
    requiring English communication skills, the Philippines is a good solution,
    though I'd still go to locals of your target demographic for copywriting and developing advertising materials... As for tech-related tasks as well as software projects, India, once you pay rates matching the expertise you
    need, will be a better option than going to the Philippines... Hope this helps...
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Thompson
    I personally use the Philippines for all of my full time hires. This includes people who do website work, keyword research, product research, article writing, review writing, etc.

    I LOVE the Philippines. Their English is great, and they want a JOB, not a freelance position, for the most part. They want you to hire them full time and treat them well. I haven't experienced that same culture in India. I find India is great for hiring freelancers on one-off jobs. For example I want to build an iPad app in one of my main markets and I'll likely go to India because I simply have not seen as many good coders in the Philippines. I could be wrong because I've never hired an app developer yet.

    Anyway, I highly recommend the Philippines, but hire people full time! It's better for your business.
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  • Profile picture of the author bouncingboy
    If it's for a job that requires a decent command of the English language, I have India on my ban list. I don't know why the English taught in India is so bad, but it is.

    I do notice one thing: The guys I know from India that have a good command of the English language are in much higher-level jobs and careers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
      I'm at the stage in my businesses growth where I just hire people and not outsource much. For small tasks, or what I call "bucket work" - things I don't want to do or assign, I will outsource. If I can't afford to do it within China (which is what I usually do since I work within the Chinese market) due to people who speak good English within China usually cost about the wage of someone in America, I tend to outsource to the Philippines. The Philippines seem to be better connected to both China's and Western culture, have a better understanding of our language which is important, and mannerisms.

      Another thing is the noticeable difference between skilled labor. In India, the quality of work for $100 is the same you would get for $300 and that is not a good thing, while in the Philippines, the difference is much more apparent which gives me a sense of reliability, or knowing what I am paying for.
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    • Profile picture of the author jaiganeshv
      Originally Posted by bouncingboy View Post

      If it's for a job that requires a decent command of the English language, I have India on my ban list. I don't know why the English taught in India is so bad, but it is.

      I do notice one thing: The guys I know from India that have a good command of the English language are in much higher-level jobs and careers.
      It is British english in India not US english.

      It is centre and not center.. colour and not color.

      It might be the trouble for you?
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    • Profile picture of the author drmani
      Jay, I was thinking something very similar.

      Russ' question would have got so much real value in response
      if it had been worded:

      "Who are the VAs in India and the Philippines whom you have
      worked with and consider good value for money?"

      Then, people who have outsourced to either place could have
      suggested SPECIFIC people or companies, and this might have
      grown into a very valuable thread to bookmark for future use.

      Loaded with personal and anecdotal opinions, as it has, there
      is precious little of value to any serious outsourcer or a
      small business owner who faces the choice between a few dozen
      million and a few hundred million potential workers to pick
      from!

      In one of Cyril Northcote Parkinson's books, I first read the
      importance of a correctly worded advertisement. It won't
      attract plenty of prospects - but those (or even the single
      one) it does will be PERFECT for your needs.

      I'll bow out of this discussion with this comment

      All success
      Dr.Mani
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      • Profile picture of the author paulie888
        Originally Posted by drmani View Post

        Jay, I was thinking something very similar.

        Russ' question would have got so much real value in response
        if it had been worded:

        "Who are the VAs in India and the Philippines whom you have
        worked with and consider good value for money?"

        Then, people who have outsourced to either place could have
        suggested SPECIFIC people or companies, and this might have
        grown into a very valuable thread to bookmark for future use.

        Loaded with personal and anecdotal opinions, as it has, there
        is precious little of value to any serious outsourcer or a
        small business owner who faces the choice between a few dozen
        million and a few hundred million potential workers to pick
        from!

        In one of Cyril Northcote Parkinson's books, I first read the
        importance of a correctly worded advertisement. It won't
        attract plenty of prospects - but those (or even the single
        one) it does will be PERFECT for your needs.

        I'll bow out of this discussion with this comment

        All success
        Dr.Mani
        Dr. Mani, I definitely think that many of the people here are making sweeping and generalized statements of opinion (as opposed to fact) as to the quality of outsourced workers in these two countries.

        Having quite a few Indian friends here in the US (pretty much all who have graduated from university either here or over there), I'm struck by the great variance in their skills, knowledge and English language capability, which as well it should being that India is such a vast country with a diverse population spread over many thousands of miles.

        There are some brilliant ones who can speak very well and write stupendously well, and there are also those who really don't have any grasp of the English language and behave/talk like they just stepped out of the slums somewhere in India (even after being here many years).

        The point that I'm trying to make here is that this is a country with a population of well over 1 billion people, and there will invariably be a lot of diversity and attendant variance in capabilities, technical skills and knowledge, as well as English proficiency. You'll find far more diversity in economic and socio-cultural conditions there than you would here in the US. What's more important here is to gauge the individual that you're planning on hiring, not make sweeping generalizations about which country is better.

        I'd say you can find excellent workers in either the Philippines or India. What's going to be far more critical is that you evaluate the individual you're planning to hire, and make sure that he or she is a good fit for your business.

        Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Jay Vikaz
        Dr. Mani,

        I have not heard that one before. But that is exactly the idea.

        When I have a bad experience with an outsourced worker, my first thought is -
        I did not do a great job hiring that person who is obviously not the right fit for my organization.

        Then I try to figure out what can be improved in my hiring & screening process..... and possibly my judgement

        I do not bring unrelated factors (like nationality, origin, race or gender) into the equation.

        I recognize it as a performance issue (mine for hiring the wrong person and the worker for not doing the job as expected).

        Hiring the wrong person for the wrong job is my failure first. As long as I understand and accept that, I can focus on putting in the right systems and processes in place to attract the right people.

        After all I have a business to run.

        - Jay



        Originally Posted by drmani View Post


        In one of Cyril Northcote Parkinson's books, I first read the
        importance of a correctly worded advertisement. It won't
        attract plenty of prospects - but those (or even the single
        one) it does will be PERFECT for your needs.
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    • Profile picture of the author entry
      Isnt this a racist thread?
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  • Profile picture of the author musiclyons
    To be honest, I don't think the country really matters. If you can find someone who can deliver high quality in a reasonable time at a reasonable price, that is what is important. I have used writers in many different countries. Hope this helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adie
    I've been a Technical support for Verizon for 3 years and I can speak based on my experience. Yes, I am a Filipino and interacting daily with our Indian counterparts in billing department. There are some good English speakers and also not good speakers.

    In terms of "who is better" should not be an argument.
    India leads on number but behind on quality
    India vs the Philippines: Where is the Future of Outsourcing?*|*Offshoring Inc.

    If you really want to know who is better, try to hire each of them at the same time, or research the internet for surveys by think thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jake Gray
      Originally Posted by Adie View Post

      I've been a Technical support for Verizon for 3 years and I can speak based on my experience. Yes, I am a Filipino and interacting daily with our Indian counterparts in billing department. There are some good English speakers and also not good speakers.

      In terms of "who is better" should not be an argument.
      India leads on number but behind on quality
      India vs the Philippines: Where is the Future of Outsourcing?*|*Offshoring Inc.

      If you really want to know who is better, try to hire each of them at the same time, or research the internet for surveys by think thanks.
      Great Advice.

      Personally, I have had great success with Philippine Workers. Never got around to trying Indian Workers. Perhaps I'll work with one someday and who knows.. Maybe I'll use him again.
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    • Profile picture of the author drmani
      Originally Posted by Adie View Post

      If you really want to know who is better, try to hire each of them at the same time.
      GREAT point. One that anyone who outsources regularly will understand
      intuitively, or learn the hard way very fast!

      I outsource my online work to South Africa and U.S.A., btw. And don't find
      great help first shot out of the box. It takes trial and error. Every 'failure'
      takes you closer to success.

      Both India and Philippines have a HUGE pool of available talent, which makes
      it easier to LOCATE a suitable worker to test out.

      All success
      Dr.Mani
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrea Wilson
    Philippines. I really dont have any good experience with Indians. Seriously, the people I hired are for one-off deals only and they are not interested to finish the task I have given to them. But Filipinos are different. They have a good attitude at work, very responsive and they love new tasks and they are more than willing to learn new things. Their raters are so acceptable and is worth it.

    Andrea
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    • Profile picture of the author SteveSki
      Originally Posted by Andrea Wilson View Post

      Philippines. I really dont have any good experience with Indians. Seriously, the people I hired are for one-off deals only and they are not interested to finish the task I have given to them. But Filipinos are different. They have a good attitude at work, very responsive and they love new tasks and they are more than willing to learn new things. Their raters are so acceptable and is worth it.

      Andrea
      Indian freelancers are easy to find but I haven't yet found many Filipinos I can choose from. Is anyone willing to share some tips of how to find some work from home Filipinos?
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  • Profile picture of the author Emmanuel C
    I started with india as almost everybody does and I was almost always disapointed, especailly with the dealines. I don't think they really understand that concept.

    then I switch to the philipines. I have 2 philipinos full time I think I'm going to hire 2 more for $250 a month full time. and they're extremely good

    I think the main problem with india is that they all work with firms so they are really not involved or concerned with your company. they not they will get another job if it doesn't work out.

    for the philipino, it's the opposite. they almost all work from home, no firms and they are extremely loyal to you. you're like their god. they respect you a lot. they want to do their best for you and they're completely 100% involved and want you to succeed.

    One of my worker from the philipines works until 2 or 3am (for him) so we can chat and he can be faster at his task. it's perfect for me because I don't like to wait a day for an email. he's always online. I tell him to go to bed but he refuses becuase he wants to work with me.

    You have to be cool too as a boss. I've found if you show you're a cool boss for an indian, they don't care at all. If you show you're a cool boss to a philipno, they're going to love and respect you even more.
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  • Profile picture of the author navyseal
    All I can say if when it comes to english,

    I guess I prefer Philippines.

    Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author A P Geofrey
    I think if I had to chose I will go with the Philippines.
    No offense.
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  • Profile picture of the author jaiganeshv
    It is better to outsource to Phillipines coz Indians themselves are outsourcing some tasks and finding better ways to outsource..

    Who knows the person who you outsource to India may soon become your competitor

    this is the truth for today..
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan Even
    I've had good luck with programmers in India, for most other outsourced tasks I use the Philippines.
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  • Profile picture of the author RussRuffino
    Just for the record, I didn't mean for this thread to turn into World War 3. Just sayin'.

    Russ
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  • Profile picture of the author jonnoryan
    I have used both for outsourcing and I find that the key to a good relationship is showing them exactly what you want and explaining in great detail on how you want things done. This will save a lot of headache down the line
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  • Profile picture of the author TubongLugaw
    Yes. Philippines has overtaken the India as the BPO capital of the world.. Mabuhay mga kababayan!
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  • Profile picture of the author NateRivers
    Philippines. They speak and understand English much better on average. Especially if you can do a good Arnold voice. In the Philippines the only two movies that seem to exist is Terminator and Predator.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bobster0007
    I heard the Philippines also.
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  • Profile picture of the author interactivex
    I've hired dozens of people in the Philippines and maybe 8 in India.

    Not one of the people in India worked out. There was always a problem:
    1. Lying - didn't tell me the truth
    2. Trying to cheat me and blackmail
    3. Not able to do the job

    There are actually fantastic people in India, but as a foreigner hiring remotely you are less likely to find them unless you have direct access or referrals from people on the ground. So it really depends on who you know. If you hire the right people I know it can work (not for me, but it does work for other people that I know)
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  • Profile picture of the author DMCAPROS
    Whoever can give you the best rates and quality of work. I have had luck in both countries.
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  • Profile picture of the author pethanks
    I would prefer you will select from Philippines. That is because Filipinos are very hardworking and can work with less supervision.
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  • Profile picture of the author nvs74191
    Frankly, I think what Dr.Mani says makes sense.

    Being from India myself, I have quite a few Americans doing stuff for me. Some do them well, some are abysmal, and some are plain rotten. I've been ripped of by some of them too.

    But I would never generalise and say all Americans are bad.

    The social characteristics of the country shapes individual behaviour and work methods. If everyone was same as you, there would be no need for so many people, would there?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jay Vikaz
    Russ,

    Cutting through all sweeping generalizations in the thread....

    I think the most relevant question for you would be - How To Hire The Most Effective VAs or Outsource workers?

    I believe the country does not matter.

    I know someone whose best outsourcer is in Siberia. Another person I met gets his articles written (in English) by an outsource freelancer from a small town in China.

    So, for every generalization there is somebody out there that breaks the mould.

    The point is you can find the most amazing talent hidden in the most unexpected places as long as you don't limit your search to one particular country.

    ... and definitely do not limit it based on some sweeping generalizations.

    Philippines and India both have amazing and talented people. I've worked with wonderful outsourced workers from both countries..... and I've had my share of bad experiences too....... get this...... from both countries.

    ..... and I've also had my share of bad experiences outsourcing to folks in the U.S, Canada and Eastern Europe.

    I try not to generalize my bad experiences because I've also had good experiences.... if I worked with the right people.

    The bottom line is this - A good worker is a person. Bringing his/her own talent, skill, work ethic and integrity to the table. Their nationality is not a factor.

    Good Apples and Bad Apples can be found everywhere.

    Don't focus on the country of origin. Focus on what's important for your business and for the position you are looking to hire -
    • Good Skills
    • Good Communication
    • Timely Delivery
    • Good Work Ethic
    • Great Rates


    Ultimately, the point of outsourcing is to get the job done at great rates. Does it matter which country the person is located in? ..... as long as they have the tools and infrastructure to perform their work and deliver their work to you.

    The reality is when you hire freelancers there is going to be bit of a trial and error process to find the right ones. That's where your screening and hiring process comes in. It should be designed to weed off the workers not suitable for the job and get the ones best suited.

    If you follow a clear system, your chances of finding the right outsourced talent quickly will be much higher.

    Ultimately, it boils down to two basic things -
    1. Ability To Deliver .... and
    2. Price

    I run an outsourcing company based in the U.S with my Core Team in India. I have also used outsourced talent from different countries for different types of tasks for some of my other projects. So, I've seen communication problems, cultural differences and other barriers when you outsource overseas .....anywhere.

    Ultimately, I've learned to focus on the hiring process to source the best talent at a price that fits my budget wherever they are.

    So, my suggestion is to ignore the debate on which is the best country to outsource and just focus on getting the right candidates for the job at a price that you are willing to pay....

    ........you may even be surprised where you find them.

    - Jay
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  • Profile picture of the author charlesgosu
    For me Philippines is better they speak English fluently or shall i say much better than Indians. much cheaper also imo.
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  • Profile picture of the author craigjonesp
    If you ask me, I'll go with Philippines. Not only do they speak well in English but I hear they are good when it comes to work.
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  • Profile picture of the author Owen Smith
    It does not matter, I generally find that the Philippines are easier to come by and cost a lot less. It is a hit and miss industry that costs around $10 to test.
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  • Profile picture of the author joe12joe
    I guess location doesnt matter as long as you have hired a professional and skillful person that fullfill your requirements.

    If you would just focus on location, i would say INDIA is no doubt the biggest market in the world in outsourcing after Philippine.

    Guys, we are talking about Philippine and India. What about Pakistan? Has anyone outsourced any project to Pakistan? And how was your experience? It is also emerging market although they have a situation going on at the moment. We have hired a VA from Pakistan and he did a great job.
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  • Profile picture of the author PsychoFin
    I am definitely biased as my wife is from the Philippines. I have a great respect for the loyalty and work ethic of Filipinos
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    • Profile picture of the author Christina Osorio
      I have to say that I am surprised to see that this thread is still so active. And although I get that the OP is specifically comparing India and the Philippines, it crosses my mind that we are setting a bad example for the less experienced marketers that follow these threads and forums and take our words as gospel. I won't rehash my previous post as I have made my opinion clear but I felt I wanted to say that all should remember that the best we can do here is share our own experiences and no one has the perfect answer to any question. If you are very new to Internet Marketing keep this in mind.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrick
    Wow..Didnt expect this kind of a thread to exist in a professional forum.

    Well, I am from India and I have good command of my english and my height is around 5 feet 10 inch. I like pizzas and I enjoy the weekend with my friends. Duh..
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  • Profile picture of the author J.M.Wilson
    I've never hired anyone from the Phillipines.

    What I can say is that EVERYONE I have worked with from India has been an absolute pleasure to deal with. They have all done exactly what they promised and one thing I LOVE about their nature is the fact that they are so friendly and welcoming no matter what the situation.

    Perhaps why one of my closest friend is from India now I think about it!
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  • Profile picture of the author digimix
    I would go with the Philippines if possible. They just have a better attitude toward service. They go the extra mile in performing menial duties while the Indians I have had work for me are strict and hard to bend. Just my experience. Even on cruise ships I have been on there seem to be a certain gravitation toward employing philippines as they work with a smile generally and are most pleasant to deal with compared to the Indian waiters who are mostly straight faced as if they do not want to be there. This is just my observation and my appologies to any Indian warrior in the room.
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  • Profile picture of the author goodewealth
    I am new to alot of areas but I must say that The Filipinos win hands down. I had one via odesk.com and she is a very hard worker. She has done some tasks for me while I was taking classes and had a very hectic schedule. Now, I am going to try the WF and see if there are some good sources here to follow up on. One such source seems to provide this type of service and I am one to at least try..........until it gets right.
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
    If you are looking to be ripped off or deal with lazy incompetent people, I'm sure either Country would do fine.

    The point being you can find good people and bad people in any group. I've worked with Indians that are wonderful, loyal, happy, and honest. I've worked with Filipinos that are the same. I've also seen the flip side in each Country.

    It comes down to the individual, their character, your interaction with them, and mostly how you treat them. One person's bad employee is another person's star.

    By the way, you can't trust anyone from Utah.
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    I've hired good and bad from both countries. It's not an issue of nationality, it's an issue if they can get the job done, whoever they are and where they are form. I always go to odesk first, as I know there are tons of people on there looking for work, and although I'll get a lot of applications from people who have no proof of being able to do the job, I'll get the few I need to choose from to do the job. You've really got to be smart about choosing an outsourcer, and choose one who has good feedback.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fazal Mayar
    I think both are equal but it's up to you. I have tried with an indian so far and im satisfied even though the results are yet to come.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Williamson
    Philippines all the way.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tspringer
    There is mention here of finding skilled Phillipino programmers and writers for $250 - $800 per month.

    Cruising around Odesk.com, I just don't see this. The resumes listed for qualified developers and programs want between $20 - $60 per hour.

    What gives? For people who have actually hired and used at length skilled Phillipino programmers and developers, where do you find them?


    Terry
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    • Hmmm... All hasty generalizations are false, including this one...
      So now for my own set of opinions:

      1. Hired someone who did crap work? Improve your formulated manpower
      marketing, testing and hiring processes. Pay this person for his or her
      time. You wasted this person's time. Not the other way around. You gave
      tasks the person does not have the right knowledge and skill sets to do...

      2. Hired someone who suddenly disappeared in the middle of a project? Improve your manpower marketing, testing, hiring, training, managerial,
      promotion, reward/incentive, and work-life environment balance systems.

      The person could've been motivated and challenged enough to stick with
      you, if you provided excellent reward systems and assigned challenging
      tasks...

      3. Don't usually get the right people to test nor a substantial volume of
      interested applicants? Improve your manpower marketing and wage charting systems. Consider a sign up bonus, payable
      in staggered payments. Consider incentives in place of regular employee
      benefits...

      4. Your business development, growth and expansion plans,
      product/service marketing, sales projections and results should match your
      manpower marketing, testing, hiring and training systems among other
      processes mentioned above...

      People interested in working with you need to think and feel your
      corporation or company or business or home business is stable enough to
      provide them long term employment...

      You have plans... They also have their own plans... So if you can't inspire
      them on the get-go:

      Formulate character developmental sessions aiming to instill a unified
      annual corporate goal-personal goal mindset into everyone working with
      you...

      This will align their personal objectives with the goals of your business...
      And your business goals with their own plans...

      Those are my relevant opinions, formulated using my experience, research,
      observations, test result analysis and inferences. The foundation of these opinions were initially formed and will constantly change with:

      1. Worked as a $200/month online content marketing researcher/writer at
      a local IM/MMO outsourcing firm 6 years ago, for more than 10 months.
      Why? No available opportunities for someone who just went totally blind. Besides: Considered English research and writing as a straightforward task.

      2. Asked my employer for 8 additional daily 2000++-word quotas after my
      first 3 weeks, 2 of which I outsourced to my friends and provided editing
      work. Why? No offers nor different challenging tasks from my employer.
      Had plans for career growth and expansion. Needed the money...

      3. Contacted a prominent North American corporation in the system
      security industry, while simultaneously working with the local outsourcing
      firm. Why? Implemented my career growth and expansion plans.

      4. Landed another post as an online content marketing
      researcher/writer with them. Worked with them for months, doing
      quadruple daily quotas. Gave up my day job to explore more avenues for faster career growth and expansion...

      5. Signed up an outsourcing, content development, content marketing and
      SEO/SEM consultancy agreement with them, after a few months of
      internal work for them...

      6. Officially registered a company. People I worked with grew from 4 work
      at home moms and dads -- me, my wife and 2 friends -- to 90 employees,
      30 subcontractors, 2 head offices and 9 provincial offices across the
      Philippines, 3 months after company registration...

      Just sharing so you could decide if my opinions could most likely be helpful
      in growing and expanding your businesses...
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  • Profile picture of the author kipper
    If its article writing, you will get a better bang for your buck if you try Africa as well. Its like looking for a needle in a haystack but if you score, its bound to be quite substantial.

    I am working with individuals trying to assemble that resource now. Will keep you posted when it matures.

    Kipper
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  • Profile picture of the author Blakers
    I had a very good experience with an article writer from Kenya.
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  • Profile picture of the author muxin
    * No hard feelings *

    but why some of the people above r considering INDIA as full of dumb people ?? , for ur kind information , INDIA has the most Hard working people and most intelligent people

    @Op
    Hire an INDIAN , i promise you you wont regret
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  • Profile picture of the author ileneg
    How about outsource in your own country (whatever country that is) and help your own economy?

    Yes, I know...business is business and money is money but I only "outsource" in the US of A.

    ileneg
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    • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
      Originally Posted by ileneg View Post

      How about outsource in your own country (whatever country that is) and help your own economy?

      Yes, I know...business is business and money is money but I only "outsource" in the US of A.

      ileneg
      If I did that exclusively, I would hardly profit enough to sustain my business through rocky moments and allow for growth. Not from overhead, but because my American employees don't bring me in as much as my Chinese workers do. (this is also why I pay my Chinese employees an American wage)

      Last 10 or so times I hired American freelancers to perform simple and rather unskilled tasks for weeks or months, I was met with a bunch of excuses as to why they couldn't perform their work, and the best part... "because $16/hour isn't much in CA for data entry, so either pay me more or I'm not going to do it" - outsourced someone else for $6/hr and met my expectations.

      However, this is for stuff like data entry and "product pulling" which is eCommerce related. This is stuff anyone can do if they are taught to. Skilled labor such as programming that requires some creative thought meshed with programming logic- because lets be honest, when you need to create some piece of software and you have no real programming experience you won't know everything you want and likely don't have the time to walk a developer by the hand through something... so for skilled labor, I go with the U.S.
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  • Profile picture of the author tamilseo
    If you want to hire article writer VA then hire from philippines. In India, most of the good English writers have good job , they would not work for $250 per month. They would expect $1000 - $1500

    I am from India, It is cheaper for me to hire article writers from other countries, i have two VA's from Nigeria.
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  • Profile picture of the author LauraJames
    I recommend using a company that provides the following:

    Has workers based in Canada and the USA.
    Does not outsource any of its work.
    Is able to compete price wise with those based in the Philippines and India.
    Staff members are native English speakers.
    Work is handled with utmost professionalism and quality.

    Yes, this type of company does exist.

    Of course, I know a lot of people now have the mindset that using a company based in the Philippines or India is more cost effective, but I wanted to do my part and speak up for a company based in North America. I mean no offence to anyone by what I have stated within this message. Thank you.
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  • Profile picture of the author liquidice04
    I once worked with a programmer from the Philippians and he started working, delayed, delayed and then quit.
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  • I've had wonderful experience with my assistants from the Philippines. I actually prefer not to use a "group" because my experience with a "group" was not good (took a MONTH to get the first page of my website created) - too many people working on it, and not enough expertise.

    So I'm not very familiar with groups, but if I had equal candidates from the Philippines and India, I'd choose the Philippines every time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrick
    I wonder why this thread is still active. Its true that many people from different countries dont like India, and the only reason is that Indians have migrated to their countries and taken up their job.

    But they dont understand the simple thing that you get a job by merit and skills and not by nationality.

    A sincere request to the moderator to remove this thread. We are here to discuss internet marketing and not which country is good and which one is bad.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrick
    "Most Filipino's have a degree education."

    LOL...as if Indians dont have ?
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  • Profile picture of the author Venturetothetop
    Touche - I wrote that in such a rage that perhaps the instant reaction was kickback and worded inappropriately.

    Still, what preceeded that comment was lot of anti Indian comments which are very offensive to me as being of Indian descent. My reaction was to hit back, which perhaps was not wise. Anyone who has experienced racism will perhaps understand my reaction.

    I stand firmly behind the other arguments i made.
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