57 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}
57 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}

"Give a monkey control of its environment, and it will fill the world with bananas!"

by Dan C. Rinnert
46 replies
That's a quote from an old episode of Doctor Who. It came to mind after seeing the latest round of discussions on article marketing and article spinning and so forth.

I can't help but wonder if Internet marketers are the monkeys and that, instead of filling the world with bananas, they are filling the Internet with worthless articles.

There's another quote from Doctor Who that comes to mind: "Statistically speaking, if you gave typewriters to a treeful of monkeys, they'd eventually produce the works of William Shakespeare. Of course, you and I both know that at the end of a millennium they'd still be tapping out gibberish."

That seems true too. That's what's happening here too. You've got Internet marketers pumping up boatloads of articles and spinning them ad nauseum, thinking they're filling the Internet with quality content.

But, it's a lot of gibberish, quite frankly.

The target seems to be "unique" content because the search engines like that sort of thing. Supposedly.

But, do you know what people want? What people using the search engines are looking for?

They're looking for useful content. They want something that is understandable and usable.

And, guess what? That's what the search engines want to deliver to them.

People worry about unique content and duplicate content, but what matters most is useful content. Something might be useful and be syndicated across dozens or hundreds of websites. Or something might be useful and be on only one website, and have dozens or hundreds of other websites linking to it.

A hundred different versions of the same base article doesn't help anyone. It just fills the Internet with clutter and makes it that much harder to find actual useful information.

William Shakespeare didn't spin his content. He didn't keep "To be or not to be" to himself and let another theatre perform it as "To exist or not to exist" and yet another as "To live or not to live" and still another as "To be not or to be" and another as "To have an existence or not." He just did the one. And four hundred years later, his work is still read and performed.

If the monkeys had been given typewriters in Shakespeare's day, well, you can argue statistics all you want, but, as suggested in the aforementioned quote, you and I both know they'd still be pumping out gibberish.

What about you? Are you a monkey or a man?
  • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
    Was this thread inspired by all the poop slinging that goes on around here?

    Give a monkey control of its environment and the walls will be decorated with yesterday's bananas.

    ~Bill
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3236136].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    I would love a world filled with bananas. I guess that makes me a monkey.
    Signature

    Founder of JVZoo. All around good guy :)

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3236169].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    I think we all know where I stand on the monkey issue.

    But you're right, Dan. Google wants to pinpoint useful even more than it wants to discern unique. After all, it's pretty easy for a computer program to figure out if something's unique or not. But determining the level of usefulness is bigger hurdle. I think this is why they've been moving more toward social proof in their analysis. Bounce rates and traffic sources and all the rest... exit pages, how long on the site, etc. It's what Google should be looking at and putting more emphasis on, imho. Backlinks were never a good barometer. They should have known better all along. To a large extent, Google made this bed that they're now trying to stop laying in. Whatever. As long as the thing that all along should have been rewarded finally does - excellent and useful content (regardless of #'s of backlinks pointing to it).

    John
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3236225].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sanssecret
    Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

    That's a quote from an old episode of Doctor Who.
    I never cease to be amazed at the fact that people I consider to relatively intelligent human beings actually watch the Doctor.

    What about you? Are you a monkey or a man?[/QUOTE]

    So I guess there's no middle ground for us women to take then? :p
    Signature
    San

    The man who views the world at fifty the same as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life. ~Muhammad Ali
    Pay me to play. :) Order a Custom Cover today.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3236229].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
      Originally Posted by sanssecret View Post

      I never cease to be amazed at the fact that people I consider to relatively intelligent human beings actually watch the Doctor.
      Watching Doctor Who is one of the signs of intelligence.
      Signature

      Dan's content is irregularly read by handfuls of people. Join the elite few by reading his blog: dcrBlogs.com, following him on Twitter: dcrTweets.com or reading his fiction: dcrWrites.com but NOT by Clicking Here!

      Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3236243].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    Dan, I'd take the position that chaos theory might dictate that the monkeys might never get to the, To Be Or Not To Be point. Who knows? No pun intended.

    The other thing is that some people will brag about how many views some of their articles have had. "Views" mean absolutely nothing unless they lead to URL clicks.

    I'd think of an article as a calling card. It says something about the person who wrote it. It is an extension of the self. If you're the kind of guy (monkey) who would go to a business meeting with a crumpled suit, dirty white socks, old sneakers, and mustard stains on your tie--and try to close a deal--well, maybe slogging out and spinning article tripe might be right up your alley.

    The articles one submits are reputation building. Whether it's a good or bad reputation is up to the writer. Whatever... --Mike
    Signature

    I'll help you create a reputation-building evergreen product in any niche and launch it successfully!
    Check it out here.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3236294].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    With all the questions you see about spinning and automating content, it seems to me that it's a great deal more trouble coming up with all this spun crap than it is to just knock out a couple unique articles that actually provide useful information. I feel that the long term benefits are greater than the benefits of all the crap articles in terms of traffic, value of the site, etc.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3236369].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      With all the questions you see about spinning and automating content, it seems to me that it's a great deal more trouble coming up with all this spun crap than it is to just knock out a couple unique articles that actually provide useful information. I feel that the long term benefits are greater than the benefits of all the crap articles in terms of traffic, value of the site, etc.
      I fully agree. Spinners and automating content were created for lazy people IMO. If you can't write an article because your writing sucks, then you could outsource instead of spin it. I think that trying to stay as unique and original with content as you can is the answer.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3236504].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    it seems to me that it's a great deal more trouble coming up with all this spun crap than it is to just knock out a couple unique articles that actually provide useful information.
    I used to think this myself until I actually sat down and tried writing articles. Some niches are easier than others and getting that first article done isn't so bad but after that the enthusiasm slowly starts to fade away.

    I have a new site that needs 20 unique articles, I'd rather pluck out my nose hairs one by one than actually write them.

    YAY for freelancers.

    And I pretty much agree with everything Dan C said. This thread gets a stamp of sock puppet approval.

    And remember, ape does not kill ape.
    Signature

    I'm all about that bass.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3236400].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TrekkieGrrrl
      If you have USEFUL content, Google won't be the only way you get traffic.

      People will recommend your site/articles/posts/etc.

      People will forward links to your posts/articles/etc. to friends.

      People will tweet about your articles/posts/etc.

      People will blog about your articles/posts/etc.

      People. You know what those are right? The thinking/breathing person that has the brain? The ones that make the purchasing decisions?

      Just sayin'.
      Signature

      Hab SoSlI' Quch!
      YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary LLaP = Live Long and Prosper
      Please Donate To KimW - Warrior needs a kidney transplant
      Coming Soon - the Greatest WSO in History!

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3236434].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
        Originally Posted by TrekkieGrrrl View Post


        People. You know what those are right? The thinking/breathing person that has the brain? The ones that make the purchasing decisions?

        Just sayin'.
        Ahh, but you forget the first episode of Season 3, "Spock's Brain." No "person" had Spock's brain for an extended period of time, and yet it was making all the decisions for those aliens.

        And you call yourself Trekkiegrrrl. POSER!!!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3237076].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author TrekkieGrrrl
          Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

          Ahh, but you forget the first episode of Season 3, "Spock's Brain." No "person" had Spock's brain for an extended period of time, and yet it was making all the decisions for those aliens.

          And you call yourself Trekkiegrrrl. POSER!!!
          GAH! How could I have forgotten that?!

          I shall go slink off and hide my shame now....

          :p
          Signature

          Hab SoSlI' Quch!
          YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary LLaP = Live Long and Prosper
          Please Donate To KimW - Warrior needs a kidney transplant
          Coming Soon - the Greatest WSO in History!

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3237233].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by jasonmorgan View Post

      I used to think this myself until I actually sat down and tried writing articles. Some niches are easier than others and getting that first article done isn't so bad but after that the enthusiasm slowly starts to fade away.

      I have a new site that needs 20 unique articles, I'd rather pluck out my nose hairs one by one than actually write them.
      That's true. It gets tedious for me also and I don't do "article marketing" to directories like some do. I just create content for my sites and some days I just stare at the screen until my eyes haze over.

      But I did try this online service ... I forget the name of it now, but you submit an original article and then you do this crap
      {boat, fishing vessel, ship} on and on and every time you submit it, it says you haven't provided enough of those things and you go back and do it some more. It was maddening. It was just as tedious as just writing another article and took a long time to do it.

      And after I was finally done, I didn't really see the benefits that the site said I would see ... Google still says zero backlinks to sites I have that Yahoo says has 2,000 backlinks.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3236468].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by jasonmorgan View Post

      I used to think this myself until I actually sat down and tried writing articles. Some niches are easier than others and getting that first article done isn't so bad but after that the enthusiasm slowly starts to fade away.

      I have a new site that needs 20 unique articles, I'd rather pluck out my nose hairs one by one than actually write them.
      See, herein lies the rub...

      I'm not making a judgement call here, just an observation...

      When you hear people speak like this it appears that there is a disconnect between giving value and receiving reward.

      They want the money/rankings/traffic, etc, but they don't want to expend the effort to earn it.

      And farming out cheap articles to people who know absolutely nothing about the niche/problem/need/want really doesn't do squat to help the people searching for bonafide information, answers or advice in that niche.

      In fact, some niches are so overloaded with incestuous garbage because everyone is reading the same articles to base their articles on what's the point of even trying get good answers using Google.

      Too many people expect to be paid an 'experts wage' when in fact they shouldn't even be polluting those niches to begin with. They're not qualified to have an opinion of any sort.

      And worse yet, they often drown out the qualified information that is available but can't be found due to SEO bias.

      Here's a thought...if you're not qualified to make money in the niches that you do possess useful knowledge and experience in stay the heck away from niches you are clueless about. Go find a place you can add value and quit being a whore just because you need money.

      Ask yourself this question..."Where would I be without the internet?"

      Because if your only answer is "Lost, without any chance earning a living" perhaps you need to reevaluate your perspectives.

      Like I said, just an observation and I only quoted Jason because his words fit this situation as an example.

      ~Bill
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3236627].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
        And farming out cheap articles to people who know absolutely nothing about the niche/problem/need/want really doesn't do squat to help the people searching for bonafide information, answers or advice in that niche.
        Here's a thought...if you're not qualified to make money in the niches that you do possess useful knowledge and experience in stay the heck away from niches you are clueless about. Go find a place you can add value and quit being a whore just because you need money.

        Thanks Bill I said that almost word for word the other day in a thread.
        As to why there is so much crap floating around.
        On the surface it would seem patently obvious, I even thought so writing it.
        "To simplified" I thinks

        But most of us know what an oxymoron "common sense" is.


        Jim
        Signature
        KimW a Fellow Warrior Who Really Needs Help
        Ken Strong Cancer Donation | Keep Ken Strong WSO





        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3236682].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

    I can't help but wonder if Internet marketers are the monkeys and that, instead of filling the world with bananas, they are filling the Internet with worthless articles.
    Plus, you and I both know the outcome of all this in the end...


    The Pandorica will open and silence will fall.
    Signature
    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3236449].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

    What about you? Are you a monkey or a man?

    Nice one, Dan... I'm sure all the ladies here appreciate that!

    That's what happens when you buy spun forum posts...


    Ken
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3236714].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    Actually, tests show that you can instruct a monkey, but they will make up their own mind. For example, if you point to an object the monkey will not follow instruction.

    On the other hand, dogs are far more intelligent and easier to train than monkeys.
    Signature
    Internet Marketing: 20% Internet - 80% Marketing!
    You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3237111].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

      If the monkeys had been given typewriters in Shakespeare's day, well, you can argue statistics all you want, but, as suggested in the aforementioned quote, you and I both know they'd still be pumping out gibberish.
      Don't you mean gibbonish?

      Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

      On the other hand, dogs are far more intelligent and easier to train than monkeys.
      Yeah, but they're crap at typing.

      @Dan. Great points. It's all too common in the IM field for articles to be seen as a mere collection of words; commodities to be rehashed, spun and endlessly repackaged like so much digital ballast. And relying on article spinners to create your content shows supreme disdain both for the original piece and for your readers.

      @Bill. Quite possibly the post of the month.

      If creating content is such a chore, please don't do it. The internet will be better off for it. There are tons of ways to make a living - it's much easier to find something you enjoy doing.


      Frank
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3237199].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

        That seems true too. That's what's happening here too. You've got Internet marketers pumping up boatloads of articles and spinning them ad nauseum, thinking they're filling the Internet with quality content.

        But, it's a lot of gibberish, quite frankly.

        The target seems to be "unique" content because the search engines like that sort of thing. Supposedly.

        But, do you know what people want? What people using the search engines are looking for?

        They're looking for useful content. They want something that is understandable and usable.

        And, guess what? That's what the search engines want to deliver to them.

        People worry about unique content and duplicate content, but what matters most is useful content.

        Another "To be or not to be" variation was Ian Flemings' "To live and let die", although tongue in cheek.

        Dan, you have hit the nail on the head.

        The thing that has always amazed me the most was people who crank out this gibberish in hopes of attracting a click from the search engines.

        They seem to have a disconnect in their brains as to what happens when people "click" those search engine links.

        If people land on your website from the search engine to find a page full of gibberish or gibbonish, what do we expect those people to do?

        Do we really expect them to dive deeper into your site to buy what you are selling?

        Honestly?

        Or will they reach quickly for the back button.

        When I have presented this quandary to people, they have said, "Well yeah, that does not matter, because we only need Google to count those links."

        Wait a second!!! You had a targeted prospect in the palm of your hand, and it is okay for them to hit the back button in their browser?

        Whoopie... You got a link...

        That does not mean that you will ever have another opportunity to get that targeted prospect back into the palm of your hand.

        I am truly blown away that people seem to put less value on "the bird in hand" and more value on "the two in the bush".


        Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

        Was this thread inspired by all the poop slinging that goes on around here?

        Give a monkey control of its environment and the walls will be decorated with yesterday's bananas.

        ~Bill

        Since we are talking about monkeys, I suspect the walls will not be decorated with yesterday's bananas, but yesterday's excrement, since monkeys seem to be keen on slinging it about.


        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

        Originally Posted by sanssecret View Post

        I never cease to be amazed at the fact that people I consider to relatively intelligent human beings actually watch the Doctor.
        Watching Doctor Who is one of the signs of intelligence.

        San: I continue to be amazed at the fact that people I consider to relatively intelligent human beings do not watch the Doctor and think those of us who do are strangely weird.


        Originally Posted by mikemcmillan View Post

        The other thing is that some people will brag about how many views some of their articles have had. "Views" mean absolutely nothing unless they lead to URL clicks.

        I'd think of an article as a calling card. It says something about the person who wrote it. It is an extension of the self. If you're the kind of guy (monkey) who would go to a business meeting with a crumpled suit, dirty white socks, old sneakers, and mustard stains on your tie--and try to close a deal--well, maybe slogging out and spinning article tripe might be right up your alley.

        The articles one submits are reputation building. Whether it's a good or bad reputation is up to the writer. Whatever... --Mike

        Views without clicks are missed opportunities.

        And clicks without conversions are also a missed opportunity.

        As a matter of reputation building, you might get another chance at that prospect, if your reputation is without blemish.


        Originally Posted by jasonmorgan View Post

        And remember, ape does not kill ape.

        I have heard that, but I am not sure it is true.

        I do know that chimpanzee does kill chimpanzee, and I am hard pressed to believe that ape does not do the same.


        Originally Posted by TrekkieGrrrl View Post

        If you have USEFUL content, Google won't be the only way you get traffic.

        People will recommend your site/articles/posts/etc.

        People will forward links to your posts/articles/etc. to friends.

        People will tweet about your articles/posts/etc.

        People will blog about your articles/posts/etc.

        People. You know what those are right? The thinking/breathing person that has the brain? The ones that make the purchasing decisions?

        Just sayin'.

        Google is only one source of traffic, and not always the best source of traffic.

        Yet many people are willing to gamble their entire marketing plan on Google, without concern, care or respect for other sources of traffic.

        It is truly mind-boggling.


        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

        @Dan. Great points. It's all too common in the IM field for articles to be seen as a mere collection of words; commodities to be rehashed, spun and endlessly repackaged like so much digital ballast. And relying on article spinners to create your content shows supreme disdain both for the original piece and for your readers.

        Yes and people complain that writing does not carry commodity pricing, when the real potential value of good communication is worth far more than what has been invested into it.

        Sales copy writers who get in excess of 5-figures to write one sales page create a situation where the person who paid for the copy writing will generally earn from that work 100-fold.

        Real businesses are willing to pay real money for good writing. However, the IM market incestuously demands that their writers write for peanuts. Why?

        Because for some reason, IMers want to believe that all people in all trades are teenagers in their mom's basement, because they see in others what they see in themselves.
        Signature
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3237385].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          If people land on your website from the search engine to find a page full of gibberish or gibbonish, what do we expect those people to do?

          Do we really expect them to dive deeper into your site to buy what you are selling?

          Honestly?

          Or will they reach quickly for the back button.
          They will actually reach quickly for the nearest exit. If you have AdSense in the same general vicinity of where they clicked on your search result in Google, they're likely to click the ad instead of the back button.

          And ka-ching, you get paid a third of a cent.

          Get enough crap on enough SERPs with enough searches, it adds up.

          Not worth it, if you ask me, but some people can't figure out how to do anything people actually like.
          Signature
          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3237430].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
          Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          Since we are talking about monkeys, I suspect the walls will not be decorated with yesterday's bananas, but yesterday's excrement, since monkeys seem to be keen on slinging it about.
          That was sorta my point...

          I'm glad you could put that together...:rolleyes:

          ~Bill

          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3237766].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

            Originally Posted by tpw

            Since we are talking about monkeys, I suspect the walls will not be decorated with yesterday's bananas, but yesterday's excrement, since monkeys seem to be keen on slinging it about.
            That was sorta my point...

            I'm glad you could put that together...:rolleyes:

            ~Bill

            My brain is running in slow motion tonight. I just NOW put it together.
            Signature
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3237827].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    They want the money/rankings/traffic, etc, but they don't want to expend the effort to earn it.
    Hey Bill, No offense taken. I actually agree with much of what you said.

    I'm not a gifted or disciplined writer so it's easier for me to bullet point key points and general information and have somebody else whip up the written magic. I can always re-edit to suit my needs. It's more like having a ghost writer than using $1 junk article services. It's just not a part of the job I enjoy so it's easier to pass it off to someone who does.

    This may be the case for others but yeah, there is a lot of garbage being churned out and it doesn't do the internet or anybody any good. I get as frustrated as everyone else when I'm trying to use google to find accurate and reliable information.

    Unfortunately, and despite google's recent posturing, I don't see any solutions to the garbage content problems coming any time soon. Until skynet is online and starts evaluating website we're going to be stuck with the same 'ol stuff.
    Signature

    I'm all about that bass.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3237169].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    If creating content is such a chore, please don't do it. The internet will be better off for it. There are tons of ways to make a living - it's much easier to find something you enjoy doing.
    Freelance article writers, copywriters and ghost writers may have a different opinion on the matter.
    Signature

    I'm all about that bass.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3237216].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by jasonmorgan View Post

      Freelance article writers, copywriters and ghost writers may have a different opinion on the matter.
      Jason, I doubt it. All the better ones seem to enjoy their work.


      Frank
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3237225].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    Jason, I doubt it. All the better ones seem to enjoy their work.
    But you just made a blanket statement that if somebody can't write or create their own content they should quit IM and find another line of work.

    If everybody is writing their own content, writers for hire are no longer needed. I'm pretty sure this isn't something that excites the freelance crowd.

    You can't have it both ways.
    Signature

    I'm all about that bass.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3237242].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by jasonmorgan View Post

      But you just made a blanket statement that if somebody can't write or create their own content they should quit IM and find another line of work.

      If everybody is writing their own content, writers for hire are no longer needed. I'm pretty sure this isn't something that excites the freelance crowd.
      Nope, no blanket statement. What I said was that if you find writing such a chore, don't do it. That seems perfectly logical.

      Why would someone struggle with a task they're patently not suited to? The outcome is likely to be less than satisfying for themselves and their intended audience.

      If you decide to create a site that's going to be useful to your visitors, I'd say you owe it to them to fill it with the best quality content on the topic that you can find. There's nothing stopping you outsourcing that content, if creating it yourself is so distasteful. Many webmasters find compiling such a site that way to be more enjoyable and fulfilling than writing their own content.

      No freelancers need be hurt in this process.

      And the result is a more useful resource for everyone.


      Frank
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3237308].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    I'd rather pump out 2 quality articles per week than flood the net with crap in the hope of a back link.

    When will people wake up that the public is now more informed and more discerning?

    In their haste to build backlinks and increase SERP's, it appears to many marketers (and I use the term loosely) have forgotton the value of providing quality and building trust with visitors. Is this because paying someone $3 an hour to pump out spun articles by the thousands easier than actually thinking about and creating quality content?

    Talk about stepping over $50 bills to pick up $1 bills.
    Signature
    Internet Marketing: 20% Internet - 80% Marketing!
    You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3238051].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Sandor Verebi
      Hi All,

      Once upon a time... many people heard... they can make money online. Someone told that them, or they read it somewhere. Since, intelligent people can to read. (Unfortunately, the other question, is how to interpret what you read.)

      They want to evaluate their knowledge, so they went to a marketing course. They have been thought that success is a number's game. They have been thought that if they are throwing peas on the wall in big enough quantity, some will sticks on. People are coming in to the internet and act the way they learned.

      But the miracle didn't come, it remained at home. What people see? Peas bounced off the wall, but... something sticked to it. What was that? The afore mentioned excrement instead of money.

      People come on to forums and complaint... the story is not over, yet...

      Should be sent the best scenting dogs out to find the lesson. You need to find the man, who will make the peas sticky, so that they remain there on the wall, and grow.

      Life goes on... and on... and on.

      Cheers,

      Sandor
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3238297].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

      I'd rather pump out 2 quality articles per week than flood the net with crap in the hope of a back link.

      When will people wake up that the public is now more informed and more discerning?

      In their haste to build backlinks and increase SERP's, it appears to many marketers (and I use the term loosely) have forgotton the value of providing quality and building trust with visitors. Is this because paying someone $3 an hour to pump out spun articles by the thousands easier than actually thinking about and creating quality content?

      Talk about stepping over $50 bills to pick up $1 bills.

      Yep, $50 bills and $100 bills passed by for the easy money... $2.86 per month...

      Good quality content has always driven revenue...

      Junk content has only been a short cut, and some people consider it a worthy shortcut because they made $2.86 without having to work for it, and that makes more sense to them than making $50 or $100 in exchange for doing real work.

      LOL

      Employees at heart, aren't they?
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3238319].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author paulie888
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        Yep, $50 bills and $100 bills passed by for the easy money... $2.86 per month...

        Good quality content has always driven revenue...

        Junk content has only been a short cut, and some people consider it a worthy shortcut because they made $2.86 without having to work for it, and that makes more sense to them than making $50 or $100 in exchange for doing real work.

        LOL

        Employees at heart, aren't they?
        Bill, the funny thing is that when they're paying crappy article writers $3 per article, they typically end up with negative ROI. In many cases, they're buying as many of these articles as they can because they're cheap, mistakenly thinking that this is only a numbers game, where the more articles (mud) you sling at the wall, the more they'll stick.

        What comes to mind are the silly bargain-seekers at the big discount warehouses like Sam's Club and Costco, who load up on all these items in bulk not because they need them, but only because they're cheap.

        The pseudo-marketers are similarly loading up on these useless articles and buying them in huge quantities, giving us the unfortunate end result that we've started to witness recently.
        Signature
        >>> Features Jason Fladlien, John S. Rhodes, Justin Brooke, Sean I. Mitchell, Reed Floren and Brad Gosse! <<<
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3238399].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

          In many cases, they're buying as many of these articles as they can because they're cheap, mistakenly thinking that this is only a numbers game, where the more articles (mud) you sling at the wall, the more they'll stick.
          What they are missing is that when you see something stick, you have to figure out WHY it stuck when the other things didn't. That's how you improve.

          But they've thrown things without the slightest attention to what they're throwing. So they don't know what the difference is. And there's so much stuff that didn't stick, you can't make a reasonable comparison. All the stuff that didn't stick is basically just garbage.

          So you don't know why the sticky stuff is sticky, and you're still stuck buying shedloads of crap content.
          Signature
          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3238476].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author paulie888
            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

            What they are missing is that when you see something stick, you have to figure out WHY it stuck when the other things didn't. That's how you improve.

            But they've thrown things without the slightest attention to what they're throwing. So they don't know what the difference is. And there's so much stuff that didn't stick, you can't make a reasonable comparison. All the stuff that didn't stick is basically just garbage.

            So you don't know why the sticky stuff is sticky, and you're still stuck buying shedloads of crap content.
            I completely agree. It's degenerated into a numbers game for them, and the game consists of procuring as many articles as they can for the lowest possible price, and then slinging it at the wall.

            Very little thought goes into this process, and I'm pretty sure they want to keep it this way.

            While the articles are dirt cheap, what's worrisome is that in many cases they aren't even measuring whether they're getting a positive ROI from all this mud slinging. All that matters is that they're getting it inexpensively - somehow the 'bargain' factor has made them lose their senses temporarily and caused them not to even want to ascertain if what they're doing makes sense.
            Signature
            >>> Features Jason Fladlien, John S. Rhodes, Justin Brooke, Sean I. Mitchell, Reed Floren and Brad Gosse! <<<
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3238510].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Sandor Verebi
          Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

          Bill, the funny thing is that when they're paying crappy article writers $3 per article, they typically end up with negative ROI. In many cases, they're buying as many of these articles as they can because they're cheap, mistakenly thinking that this is only a numbers game, where the more articles (mud) you sling at the wall, the more they'll stick.

          What comes to mind are the silly bargain-seekers at the big discount warehouses like Sam's Club and Costco, who load up on all these items in bulk not because they need them, but only because they're cheap.

          The pseudo-marketers are similarly loading up on these useless articles and buying them in huge quantities, giving us the unfortunate end result that we've started to witness recently.
          Paul, you are right in 100%.

          The discount-warehouse / pseudo-marketers analogy is perfect. This phenomenon -- what many people own -- is the mass psychosis. And this phenomenon is gluey. And always re-generated. A fact is, that a sober voice is not heard in a big clamour.

          This is why more and more garbage and disappointed people are on the Internet.

          Human thinking is not going to change in a short period of time, I'm afraid. To stop the spread of the garbage on the 'net and wake up people is need a schock, I think. They needs to wake up when they see that the $3 article does not lead to wealth.

          Take care,

          Sandor
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3238550].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author paulie888
            Originally Posted by Sandor Verebi View Post

            Paul, you are right in 100%.

            The discount-warehouse / pseudo-marketers analogy is perfect. This phenomenon -- what many people own -- is the mass psychosis. And this phenomenon is gluey. And always re-generated. A fact is, that a sober voice is not heard in a big clamour.

            This is why more and more garbage and disappointed people are on the Internet.

            Human thinking is not going to change in a short period of time, I'm afraid. To stop the spread of the garbage on the 'net and wake up people is need a schock, I think. They needs to wake up when they see that the $3 article does not lead to wealth.

            Take care,

            Sandor
            While I agree that outsourcing can be a very powerful resource, it is only a tool for us to use when appropriate. Some tasks cannot be outsourced offshore easily (and this includes article writing), but many have been brainwashed into thinking that outsourcing is some kind of magic pill that'll take care of everything difficult and tedious in their IM. This simply isn't the case, unfortunately.
            Signature
            >>> Features Jason Fladlien, John S. Rhodes, Justin Brooke, Sean I. Mitchell, Reed Floren and Brad Gosse! <<<
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3238580].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by Sandor Verebi View Post

            To stop the spread of the garbage on the 'net and wake up people is need a schock, I think. They needs to wake up when they see that the $3 article does not lead to wealth.

            They will never put two and two together properly.

            In six months time, they will be in here warning off all of the newbies that article marketing is a scam and Internet Marketing is a money pit.
            Signature
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3238611].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author paulie888
              Originally Posted by tpw View Post

              They will never put two and two together properly.

              In six months time, they will be in here warning off all of the newbies that article marketing is a scam and Internet Marketing is a money pit.
              Bill, this is a never-ending cycle that will keep repeating itself. Another personal favorite of mine are the threads that boldly proclaim this or that method is dead. In many cases, they try something for 1 week or less, see no or discouraging results, and then immediately reach their conclusion!
              Signature
              >>> Features Jason Fladlien, John S. Rhodes, Justin Brooke, Sean I. Mitchell, Reed Floren and Brad Gosse! <<<
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3238643].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author tpw
                Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

                Bill, this is a never-ending cycle that will keep repeating itself. Another personal favorite of mine are the threads that boldly proclaim this or that method is dead. In many cases, they try something for 1 week or less, see no or discouraging results, and then immediately reach their conclusion!

                I still have that other one open on my browser.

                I want to post to it, but I hesitate to do so, because I had the highest regard for the OP until I saw that post.

                It almost seems he was tripping on meth when he did that, because to me, it seems so outside his character.
                Signature
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3238672].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Sandor Verebi
              Originally Posted by tpw View Post

              They will never put two and two together properly.

              In six months time, they will be in here warning off all of the newbies that article marketing is a scam and Internet Marketing is a money pit.
              Do you think we're on a roller coaster?

              Cheers,

              Sandor
              Signature

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3238670].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author paulie888
                Originally Posted by Sandor Verebi View Post

                Do you think we're on a roller coaster?

                Cheers,

                Sandor
                I'm sure the newbies definitely feel like they are, especially when they come in here and start reading all these sensationalist threads.
                Signature
                >>> Features Jason Fladlien, John S. Rhodes, Justin Brooke, Sean I. Mitchell, Reed Floren and Brad Gosse! <<<
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3238681].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Sandor Verebi
                  Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

                  I'm sure the newbies definitely feel like they are, especially when they come in here and start reading all these sensationalist threads.
                  Paul, you know I'm sure, that an old joke is new to a newborn.

                  Let's face it, that we were all beginners at some point.

                  Only we stopped crying long ago.

                  Cheers,

                  Sandor
                  Signature

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3238810].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author paulie888
                    Originally Posted by Sandor Verebi View Post

                    Paul, you know I'm sure, that an old joke is new to a newborn.

                    Let's face it, that we were all beginners at some point.

                    Only we stopped crying long ago.

                    Cheers,

                    Sandor
                    Of course, I'm not trying to put down the newbie. It is a phase that everyone has to pass through, and what really matters is that you learn how to progress out of that stage as quickly as possible.
                    Signature
                    >>> Features Jason Fladlien, John S. Rhodes, Justin Brooke, Sean I. Mitchell, Reed Floren and Brad Gosse! <<<
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3238831].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Sandor Verebi
                      Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

                      Of course, I'm not trying to put down the newbie. It is a phase that everyone has to pass through, and what really matters is that you learn how to progress out of that stage as quickly as possible.
                      Paul,

                      We have an old saying: "The good priest had learned, until he dead."

                      I held myself to that so far. Another questions, are how do you interpret what you learn, and how and when do you apply that, if any. I see the proble here.

                      Maybe once people grow up. I hope, at least.

                      Cheers,

                      Sandor
                      Signature

                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3238930].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author sal64
        Perhaps we should call it: AdCents?

        nyuk, nyuk, nyuk!


        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        Yep, $50 bills and $100 bills passed by for the easy money... $2.86 per month...

        Good quality content has always driven revenue...

        Junk content has only been a short cut, and some people consider it a worthy shortcut because they made $2.86 without having to work for it, and that makes more sense to them than making $50 or $100 in exchange for doing real work.

        LOL

        Employees at heart, aren't they?
        Signature
        Internet Marketing: 20% Internet - 80% Marketing!
        You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3238603].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Aira Bongco
    I totally agree with the OP here. It is better to spend time creating an article that is actually beneficial to the niche than tons of articles that don't add value to anyone.

    I guess a common error among article marketers is that they are always focused on promoting that they forget that they could have gotten more clicks if they skipped the shortcut and did great work instead.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3238638].message }}

Trending Topics