No Refunds on Protected Property?!?

13 years ago

Everyone has the right to set their own refund policies. Quite a few software sellers have a no refund policy just because they are selling software. I use this policy myself on some of the software I sell.

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BloggingPro

13 years ago

Does he have a NO Refunds policy on his scripts? I know quite a few Wordpress theme sites also have a no refunds policy which is why I ask.

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Cash Money Hosting

13 years ago

Well, After trying to FIND their return policy, which is listed under ....

About-> Other Policies & Info.

No refund policy, or anything related to payments are easily visible.
Also, no demo to try the application or anything ...

and the difference between this product and wordpress themes, are the fact that you can still use a wp-theme if you get a refund.

and then when i mention that ...

"Hopefully this issue can be resolved without bringing in any other 3rd parties."

We get a response like this one ...

"I hope you aren't threatening to commit fraud with your third parties as that would result in suspension of all your licenses."

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BloggingPro

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Cash Money Hosting

Well, After trying to FIND their return policy, which is listed under ....

About-> Other Policies & Info.

No refund policy, or anything related to payments are easily visible.
Also, no demo to try the application or anything ...

and the difference between this product and wordpress themes, are the fact that you can still use a wp-theme if you get a refund.

and then when i mention that ...

"Hopefully this issue can be resolved without bringing in any other 3rd parties."

We get a response like this one ...

"I hope you aren't threatening to commit fraud with your third parties as that would result in suspension of all your licenses."

There are certainly some themes that need a license to work. I have three of them currently running on sites now. As for that response it sounds like your either going to be out the $99 or be out all of your scripts. That's a tough decision if you ask me.

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georgebush

13 years ago

i would never buy from them again!!

Originally Posted by Cash Money Hosting

I have just came across a well known online marketer, who sells php scripts.

His source code is encrypted, and also uses license key verification.

I have been a customer of his for over 2 years! I decided to purchase a $99 addon to the script that I have been paying $15 a month for, for over 2 years.

Gave it about 3 days before I asked for a refund. He is refusing.

It is a digital product, and protected. If a refund was given, access to the script would be disabled ...

So why would they refuse a refund request, from a "valued customer."

What would you do if this happened to you?

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Owen Smith

13 years ago

If the payment is through paypal, you have no rights to a refund. Its a digital good.

Although he may be trying to just protect his script being bought used and refunded.

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Kim Standerline

13 years ago

I can appreciate anyone wanting to protect their stuff but hiding the no refund policy is sly. Plus we dislike being accused of behaving fraudulently (which is what they also did).

No way the script can be used once it's been deactivated. We very rarely ask for a refund, but in this case as it was well over $100 with tax we did so. We're very surprised that the company in question has taken this stance..

Kim

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

If the payment is through paypal, you have no rights to a refund. Its a digital good.

Although he may be trying to just protect his script being bought used and refunded.

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Cash Money Hosting

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

Although he may be trying to just protect his script being bought used and refunded.

As stated in the initial post, the script is encrypted and licensed.
It cannot be used, or copied, if refunded.

If it was NOT a protected script, than I would understand, but it is, and he has nothing to lose by refunding, except for a $99 sale on a product i dont want.

I consider that to be extremely unethical!!!

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Johnny Slater

13 years ago

Not offering a refund is in no way unethical. Every seller has the right to make their own choice if they wish to offer refunds or not. There is no requirement that anyone has to give a refund just because someone asks for one.

I dont want to be offensive but it honestly sounds like you feel you are entitled to a refund just because you want one. If the product seller doesn't want to give you a refund then he doesn't have to give you one.

There is nothing unethical or illegal about it in any way. Perhaps you might want to consider looking for refund policies and make sure what they are before you make purchases in the future so that you do not run into this problem again.

The only thing I see the product seller has possibly done wrong is not having a written out refund policy stated on their site, but it isn't a requirement as far as I understand it. PayPal suggest you put one on your site but they do not require them so it really does sound like a case of buyer beware and know what you are buying before you buy it.

Originally Posted by Cash Money Hosting

As stated in the initial post, the script is encrypted and licensed.
It cannot be used, or copied, if refunded.

If it was NOT a protected script, than I would understand, but it is, and he has nothing to lose by refunding, except for a $99 sale on a product i dont want.

I consider that to be extremely unethical!!!

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Kim Standerline

13 years ago

Some of us are maybe a tad spoilt Johnny, I've always given a refund if asked for one no matter what the price was or whether the product had a defect.

We made the mistake by assuming the company in question would have a refund policy. Our bad for not checking it out more thouroughly.

To be honest what's really got us mad is the fact that we've been accused of being fraudulent because we asked for this refund. (Which made me blink a bit). This script can be deactivated after refund so the comment was completely uncalled for.

We've been customers of theirs for over 2 years (and paid them a lot of money). I just find it a strange way of doing business.
Kim

Originally Posted by Johnny Slater

Not offering a refund is in no way unethical. Every seller has the right to make their own choice if they wish to offer refunds or not. There is no requirement that anyone has to give a refund just because someone asks for one.

I dont want to be offensive but it honestly sounds like you feel you are entitled to a refund just because you want one. If the product seller doesn't want to give you a refund then he doesn't have to give you one.

There is nothing unethical or illegal about it in any way. Perhaps you might want to consider looking for refund policies and make sure what they are before you make purchases in the future so that you do not run into this problem again.

The only thing I see the product seller has possibly done wrong is not having a written out refund policy stated on their site, but it isn't a requirement as far as I understand it. PayPal suggest you put one on your site but they do not require them so it really does sound like a case of buyer beware and know what you are buying before you buy it.

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Gary King 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Kim Standerline

This script can be deactivated after refund so the comment was completely uncalled for.

Sorry you're struggling with this Kim....

Perhaps it really CAN'T be deactivated and that's whey they're being so cheekish (put mildly).

Hope you get it resolved quickly!

All success,

Gary
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Kay King 13 years ago

Kim - What was hidden? The OP mentioned that but never gave any terms or conditions listed about refunds in that "hidden" page.

Was there any mention of refunds on the site? Why would a buyer assume there is an easy refund policy if it's not stated on the sales page?

You ask about a demo before you buy - you ask about a refund policy before you buy if you don't see one listed on the sales page. I know you know that so I'm thinking because you've worked with the seller's product for some time the questions weren't asked or answers were assumed. I'm sure many of us would do the same - and get burned, too.

kay
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Johnny Slater

13 years ago

This seems to be the common theme here. It seems like the hang up is the fact that the script can be deactivated so you feel the refund request is reasonable.

The truth is that any encription can be broken. There really isn't much anyone is going to do to stop people who want to break the encription if they try hard enough.

The encription should not be used as a point-counter point argument since its a moot point. Encription only stops those who don't know enough to crack it and any software seller is well within their rights to have a no refund policy even with encripted software.

Honestly, go buy the newest version of Windows then ask for a refund and see what you are told. Or go buy Dreamweaver and ask for a refund. Anyone who is selling software should be seriously looking at refunds and deciding for themselves if they want to offer refunds or not. Encripted, not encripted, or a mix of both, it really doesn't matter in the least.

Btw Kim, just to remove any confusion you might want to clarify your association with the OP. It's from your posts and the fact that you have a link to OP's hosting company in your sig.

Originally Posted by Kim Standerline

This script can be deactivated after refund so the comment was completely uncalled for.
Kim

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Kim Standerline

13 years ago

To answer Jonny's question re association with the OP. Yes we work together on the hosting company in my sig, he'd skyped me with the link to this thread he had started so I jumped in. (Nothing sinister I assure you).

A lot of food for thought in many of the answers here.

As someone who wouldn't know how to break an encryption, that's something I hadn't thought of. I take your point however about dreamweaver, windows etc.

I think chargebacks should be an absolutely last resort and to be honest I'd have probably stopped short at that anyway.

Kay you're right, we shouldn't have assumed there was a refund policy, but their no refund policy was hidden away in a subpage. As a marketer I'm probably too used to one being in situ.

To be fair there was nothing wrong with the product, it just wasn't what we thought it was and needed for. (No demo just a description) which is another reason why I would have stopped short at a chargeback.

Lesson learned here (and I should know better cos I've been at this long enough). Never take stuff for granted and buyer beware etc.

After Mike (our OP) explained at length why it was no good to us they did give us the refund so it all has a happy ending.

Kim

Originally Posted by Johnny Slater

This seems to be the common theme here. It seems like the hang up is the fact that the script can be deactivated so you feel the refund request is reasonable.

The truth is that any encription can be broken. There really isn't much anyone is going to do to stop people who want to break the encription if they try hard enough.

The encription should not be used as a point-counter point argument since its a moot point. Encription only stops those who don't know enough to crack it and any software seller is well within their rights to have a no refund policy even with encripted software.

Honestly, go buy the newest version of Windows then ask for a refund and see what you are told. Or go buy Dreamweaver and ask for a refund. Anyone who is selling software should be seriously looking at refunds and deciding for themselves if they want to offer refunds or not. Encripted, not encripted, or a mix of both, it really doesn't matter in the least.

Btw Kim, just to remove any confusion you might want to clarify your association with the OP. It's from your posts and the fact that you have a link to OP's hosting company in your sig.

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AnitaCross 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Kim Standerline

After Mike (our OP) explained at length why it was no good to us they did give us the refund so it all has a happy ending.

Kim,

Thanks for the update.

I'm pleasantly surprised, considering everything I read here, that the marketer decided to refund your money. But... I've seen some really strong, long-term relationships occur when an issue like this is resolved with a win-win.

Hopefully that will be the case here, as well.

-Anita
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bouncingboy

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

If the payment is through paypal, you have no rights to a refund. Its a digital good.

Although he may be trying to just protect his script being bought used and refunded.

If you used a credit card on Paypal, then charge it back with your bank saying the product was unsatisfactory and significantly not as described. As long as you use a credit card instead of a PayPal balance, it's not hard to get a refund.

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Chris Worner

13 years ago

Very simple, if the product is faulty(doesn't work) go to your bank and do a chargeback. The seller can't hide behind a no refund policy if he is selling faulty products.

Chris

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Johnny Slater

13 years ago

If you follow this advice you better make damn sure the product isn't as described or doesn't work. Making this claim just to get a refund when it isn't true is fraud and you can get in serious trouble if you use this method when the product works as advertised and you just want a refund.

Originally Posted by Chris Worner

Very simple, if the product is faulty(doesn't work) go to your bank and do a chargeback. The seller can't hide behind a no refund policy if he is selling faulty products.

Chris

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AnitaCross

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Cash Money Hosting

and then when i mention that ...

"Hopefully this issue can be resolved without bringing in any other 3rd parties."

We get a response like this one ...

"I hope you aren't threatening to commit fraud with your third parties as that would result in suspension of all your licenses."

Sounds like they've had problems with fraud in the past. "3rd parties" could mean one thing to you, and something else altogether to them.

Originally Posted by Chris Worner

Very simple, if the product is faulty(doesn't work) go to your bank and do a chargeback. The seller can't hide behind a no refund policy if he is selling faulty products.

Chris

Originally Posted by Johnny Slater

If you follow this advice you better make damn sure the product isn't as described or doesn't work. Making this claim just to get a refund when it isn't true is fraud and you can get in serious trouble if you use this method when the product works as advertised and you just want a refund.

Chris and Johnny make a valid point here. Does the product do what it said it would do? If so, you have no legal right to do a chargeback. And if you did a chargeback anyway, you would definitely be committing fraud.

I doubt that the fact you've been a customer for over two years means much to them, if all you pay is $15 a month. If they lose you as a customer, they aren't out much. And if you look at it from their point of view, it will be worth it to them to let you go, rather than deal with a customer they perceive to be dishonest and likely to consume more of their time than the $15/mo is worth.

It sounds like it's too late to try to resolve this by begging. ("I'm sorry. I screwed up. I made an assumption and I was wrong. Please make an exception, and I promise I'll never ask you for a refund again." etc.)

I wouldn't want to throw $100+ away either, but I'm afraid this is one of those times when you need to lick your wounds and move on. Just be glad it was a $100 lesson, instead of a $2K lesson.

Respectfully,
-Anita

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No Refunds on Protected Property?!?

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