Quick Important Question (ethical) - Can I lie in Sales Pages?

True, okay better not .

Simple answer is: DON'T DO THAT.

If you lie, at some point you will eventually get caught. Might not happen today or even this year, but at some point you will. At that point, what ever reputation you have built by then will go right down the toilet.

Being labeled a liar is never a good thing

Yes, go ahead, lie away. The FTC will never notice and your customers will never notice

You'll get a reputation as a good, honest person and the people on your list will be queuing to buy the next great product from you.

/sarcasm

Come on - reality check - that was a bit of a daft question really, wasn't it?

Yes you can certainly lie to me. It's a simple enough thing to do.

But if I find out, I will NEVER trust you again.

And I suspect that is how the majority of people would feel.

Will

Tom, I told you in another thread that I don't think you're dumb. Please don't make me regret my words...

By the way, "everyone" doesn't do it...

Not only is it unethical, but I believe it is also illegal.

I cannot believe how often people ask questions this... "ill-considered."

Unreal.


Paul

Hey Tom - yeah go ahead and tell your whopper if it increases your conversions. But guess what? I'll never ever buy anything from you or recommend you to anyone.

Warren Buffett

If you are going to lie then you are definitely the one that believes in short term success. If you really want to succeed online then build your reputation. Success comes much faster to honest people, try it, its 100% true.

How would you feel if you spent your hard-earned cash on a product that very clearly promised one thing but didn't deliver, or used deceptive tactics to sell you on it some other way?

Pretty peeved, I reckon.

You'd probably be looking for your money back, wouldn't you?

And posting on the forum that "so and so" is an a$$hole, and their product is a P.O.S ...

If you don't want it done to you, don't do it to others.

Yeah was a daft question but I am so annoyed at seeing lies in sales pages that I think maybe it is what all sales pages should be like.

Why would you even have to ask this question? Lying in sales pages is completely wrong and unethical. Not to mention doing it has a lot to do with why the FTC has come down so hard with the laws they have changed. If you have to ask this question you should go find another profession.

Love how I get abused about my signature - Wrote that hub thinking about the future.

When asking about if you should lie, or harbor a lie, just think about one such person's career that was COMPLETELY ruined by lying.

Tiger Woods

Look at what all he lost in terms on money and reputation.

Nice point btw I removed my sig link to everyone who didn't like that.

Yeah your right but I just believe some people say it in such bad ways.
I am writing a sales page so I asked a question about it? Seems though I see lying in loads of sales pages why can't I, but now I know why.

No, EVERYONE does not do it, in terms of figures or anything else. There are plenty of us who do things ethically, legally and honestly. Perhaps you need to start looking for that type of person to follow and pay attention to, if you think "everyone" is a liar.

Tina

Because I have spoken to 1 who actually admitted to it, I know some tell the truth.

Yeah take it easy people, we are the WF we are open minded and helpful...right? anyway Tom major cudos for having the guts to start a thread like this. I feel ya on the frustration part too. Imagine getting to actually meet those people (dreamy grin)

I think lying on a sales page is not only acceptable, it is to be encouraged.

Some of us here have spent years, even decades fine tuning our skills to make money online. But why bother doing that? It's much easier to simply declare yourself an expert in some area, lie your ass of about your service or product, and pull in some orders.

My only recommendation is that a disclaimer be used at the top of the page that reads something along the lines of...

"What follows is complete bull sh*t. I made it all up because I'm just too damn lazy to to get the experience I need to do this stuff myself. I've been told that 5% of the people coming to any sales page are complete imbeciles and are gullible enough to believe damn near anything they read. I hope you are one of those individuals! If so, let's do business.

And why not just forget about reading the sales copy below. You probably never made it past 3rd grade so you won't even comprehend the scam I'm pulling here. So just click on the order button below and send me your payment.

I know, the download link isn't working. Actually, I haven't even created the product yet--that's the beauty of my business model--don't you see?

Click to order today, before I increase the price. Testimonials? Actually I don't have any yet. So here is my second part to this offer. Send me a glowing testimonial after you've paid, and after I find a site I can scrape some content from and create the product--and I'll pay you $10. But the testimonial had better be a damn good one.

And you don't even need to look at my product when I get it to you. Just make up some &*^# and send it to me. Looking forward to a long and positive relationship with you down the road."

BTW Tom, I watched you YouTube video explaining how to easily get Clickbank refunds. The part where you input the message, "The product had many false claims" and then went on to say They All Do is pure gold. I'd consider running a WSO about how to become a serial refunder in 12 easy steps. I think it might sell! Let me know if you need a testimonial for it.

Bill, Online, it's always best to consider there might be nothing more to it than a smoke machine.


Paul

Actually everyone does not do it. I never lie and any figure I use in a sales page is a verifiable figure.

Shannon

Lying is just illegal. If you caught then the bad reputation will be with you for ever and if the victim complain against you then your site can be banned too.

LOL! If all those Big Guys can lies on their sales pages then why not you?

I have read all the answers to the OP's question here and still haven't seen anyone ask the all important, psychological, question?

"Why are, certain, people lying on their sales pages?

Sadly to say, one of the possible reasons comes from what newbies (the target market) are looking for. That would be easy money, lazy, no work (autoblogging), etc, etc, I could go on and on just from some of the thread subjects lines that's been seen in WF lately but I digress.

If you are only after the money, and don't really care if the customer succeeds or not, then you're going to market to what they are looking for. It doesn't take much research to figure out what newbies are looking for now does it?

"Money for Nothing and Your Chicks for FREE!"

I have been trying to work this out all through this post but I just cannot! What does OP stand for? Opening Something? I just do not know and it is really bugging me.

If I come up with a lie so great it would massively increase conversions, I'd work my ass off to make it become a truth.

Do not Lie. Be Kind. Be Honest. Enjoy Life.

Thanks for everyone's help esp: Richard Van.

Most marketers are basically liars because they forget explaining many details of each making-money process. They tell you that you can easily create an affiliate program for example, and you'll have thousands of affiliates promoting your products for you.

They don't explain that in order to recruit all these affiliates you have to follow an entire process, spend a lot of time, try many things, educate your affiliates, offer them all the necessary tools to promote your products, etc and etc, and basically give them very good commissions.

Marketers mention only the happy end. They don't really lie; they simply hide the entire truth.

Yes, you can recruit a thousand affiliates and yes, they will sell your products, this is not a lie; IF you work very hard trying to find people who will accept promoting your products, if your products are good enough, and if a thousand other factors will help you accomplish this goal.

Now, based on this truth, you can understand what you could possibly write in your sales letter without being a (visible) liar.

However, even if you'll manage to sell your products this way, if you are not honest and what you are selling is not really helpful, your customers will simply return the products they bought from you and you'll have to give them their money back.


Now, think about all your trouble trying to sell these products and finally managing to sell them, only in order to see all purchases being cancelled in a while, and being obliged to give back to their owners all the money you made...

I'd think this was a trolling foray, but I swear I think you're serious.

<<What If I know 100% that the product I am selling will help people BUT the only way to sell it is to lie (hype) ect.?>>

I can't take this. I'm out of here. My final remark on this thread is that thinking along these lines is an insult to the vast majority of Warriors who have paid their dues and poured their blood and guts and souls into creating a successful business model through the years.

I respect everyone who has done that. There is an unofficial "inner circle" of members here and there is only one prerequisite for getting in--HONESTY! Doesn't matter if one makes $5 a day or $50,000 a month, those who work hard and establish an ethical business are charter members as far as I'm concerned.

Arrrrgh!!!!!!!!!!

Go ahead and lie but, plan on losing most of your contacts
after they catch you! If you have a good product or opportunity,
word will get out without the lies and you'll be better off for it!

Or, go ahead and lie to reap the negative rewards that come with
that!

Maurice

Here's how I see it, though I don't claim to be some morally superior human being - it's just my opinion:

I'm not condoning lying to your customers. I never do it, and I never promote products and services in which I have no expertise in. Dishonest people are found out eventually. You can only make a buck for so long by lying and misleading your clients. People are smart enough to figure you out eventually. But I also don't think calling the OP dishonest because he had the THOUGHT of putting a lie on his page makes him a liar. Not one single person alive has gone without telling a lie and occasionally considering lying about something because it could greatly benefit them.

If you want to know some real liars.......become a high school football scout and get to know some Division 1 college football coaches. I did that part-time in the fall for a couple of years just for fun and I can tell you I met not one single honest college football coach. And even worse are the parents of the recruits. Many of them are major gravy training and dishonest scumbags. I love me some college football, but pretty much everything about that sport is dishonest, and you don't really know just how dishonest it is until you get involved with it. Sales pages have NOTHING on big-time college football!

Then of course it depends on what you consider as lying. Are all those TV ads that say Sale must end this week lying or merely twisting the facts? Is the ad that says "probably the best lager in the world" when it tastes like dishwater a lie or just a misguided opinion.

There is of course the well established principal of "Traders Puff" that is, an advertising or promotional statement which is not intended to be binding. In other words often an obvious exaggeration.

Who can remember the Angostura bitters bottle that claimed it was a cure for almost every malady known to man?

You only need to look at the number of court cases that centre round the question of whether a statement is misrepresentation or just a traders puff to understand why a seventeen year old might be confused about the need to stick to the truth in advertising.

If the lawyers find it so hard to draw the line...

Hi Tom,

Nope, no lying about the sales stuff. About your age? Maybe.

Best wishes with it all.

Bri.

I think the fact that you felt compelled to ask that question means you already know the answer...

I'll tell you right now you are better off not to lie. Karma will come get you if you lie and you may get a ton of sales right off the bat, but if you lied to me on a sales page I'd never buy from you again.

There is a saying that we have in my old industry, the restaurant industry, if you impress a guest they will tell one friend, but if you piss off a guest they will tell 10 friends. This is exactly what will happen if you tell your big fat juicy lie.

I, personally, can contact over 5,000 people at the push of a button and if I bought a product and found out that there was a lie on the sales page, then I would contact all of them in a pretty quick hurry to inform them of the scam.

If you want to be a scammer go ahead and lie, but it will catch up to you.

Benjamin Ehinger

If you have to lie to make a sale then look at your product and ask yourself: why?

If you make your product kick-arse you'll wonder why you even needed to consider this thread.

I agree with the consensus here. Sure you may make some additional sales but you won't have repeat customers. I guess if you aren't using your real name it wouldn't have as big of an impact.

Don't forget if when you lie about a product people will want refunds and they deserve them. If you lie and refuse refunds you're just asking for someone to take legal action.

Just don't, it's not good business.

Um if you do lie you just let the biggest IM forum know you were planning to ...so now its hard to run from that...

I wonder what answers the OP actually expected...

Well, in the crazy world we live in, lies are sometimes great marketing. Actually, not the lies themselves, but the public apology afterwords. Not long ago there was a post about a blogger who lied, then apologized, and the reaction from public was quite positive. Almost like he was a hero for having guts to regret his lies publicly. I guess people love emotions...

Another thing is all the "fake it till you make it" marketers, and there's plenty of them, even here. In fact, this tactic is often recommended even by some of the bigger name marketers. And some of the big name marketers did exactly that when they were starting out too. But at the end, they made it big, and made all the claims true. So it was not a lie. Well, if you disregard the timing...

I remember a well-known marketer who loved to go into details of his struggle with FTC. The comments on his blog were very supportive. After all, big brother was after him, and of course, he did nothing wrong. I don't know why the FTC thinks that just because he smoked he also inhaled...

The bottom line is, you should not lie. It's just a bad karma. Plus, it is exactly the opposite of what you claim - no big name marketer lies. Ever. If you do, you'll be the first one, and the only one. Just because FTC is after some of the other marketers, suing them because of false claims, and wins does not mean they did anything wrong. It only proves that you cannot trust the government. Or perhaps, they were just misunderstood.

Anyway, I am just happy that there are no lies and false claims in the WSO's. After all, judging from this thread, there would be a lot of outrage if something like that was discovered...

PS: There's a lot of sarcasm in the above. But not all of it... I let you figure the messy post yourself. :-)

Eh, I think there are different forms of lying, and not all forms of lying receive the same consequences or all equally damaging. I don't agree with everyone in this thread, but why would I? Saying I don't lie to some extent would make me a liar.

Absolutely Not, I would hate to make someone pay higher than the actual value.

Can I lie to people just to get their money?

C'mon, can I?

You know the right answer.

I just had a look at a few products on clickbank. Almost all of them said "limited availability" or had a script that that said ends on X date but when you view the source code has a little script that adds 2 days to todays date.

"We're capping it once the quota is filled... and it's nearly FULL!!"

"Important: If the button above reads $37, you're seeing an early test price, discounted from the $67 - - Click it now before it reverts to $67"

"Only 5 licences left" so they haven't sold anything in the last two weeks... That's the last time I looked at the site. Said the same then.

"If you don't seize this opportunity now, you'll probably miss out forever..." that was on a site with a 2009 date.

"$10 Discount - ONLY 4 Left!"

"You will never get it at this low, low price again." When you click off the page you get an instant offer of a $10 discount.

Are these all lies, or legitimate sales techniques?

It doesn't take much intelligence to tell a lie, but it takes a genius to remember and uphold all the lies that one has told.

(I wish I could remember the exact quote and who said it...tried Google for a few seconds but couldn't come up with it)

If you resist the urge to spew nonsense, hype, lies, and an endless stream of screaming exclamation points at your prospects, you'll stand out from the crowd (who mistakenly think that's what copywriting is about).

Good copywriters are sales people -- NOT professional liars.

John

Hi, I am a new (active) member of WF, I do the absolute best NOT to lie in any copy, any advert, any blog post, I try to represent myself as being honest, and true to my word....and I believe that I am, this could be a reason that I have yet to make money in IM! When I think back to the path I took to get here, the lies, the misconceptions, the untruths, the distractional tactics, the being drawn round in circles by the same web owners pretending they were different! It makes you wonder which side of the fence is indeed profitable. I write the way I see things, and I write the way I think, I am honest, but I am not rich. Would I consider being dishonest and rich? Very rich? No. I am worth more than that.

I don't think you should..

That's a BIG FAT NO!! Success is always founded on truth! If you lie, it will work just for a bit, but eventually, your success will ground to a halt! Been there, done that.

No, do not Lie starting now, you could think up a juicy truth instead!

Take care,

Bernard St-Pierre
Marketing Consultant
Copywriter/Teacher

Ok so let me get this straight you want to lie to increase conversions.

Ok do you think about what that will do for your refund rate. Not to mention if you are selling to a list with this lie how many are simply going to unsubscribe because of the lie.

"For every action their is an equal and opposite reaction" The same apply's to your business. Their for treat it that way. The more honest you are with your viewers the more likely they will be to buy from you time and time again on other offers.

You give them a line of crap the first time they will ask for a refund and never buy from you again. So just be honest overall

It's great to see so many warriors encouraged honesty in this business, suddenly IM seems like an ideal world....but in reality I don't think these are true....

If every Internet Marketer are as honest as all of you, there will be no failures,no scam alert, no heart broken in this business....

Because even the laziest bum who never made a dime online and who doesn't know a single thing about computer terms can simply go to Clickbank or Paydotcom to purchase some make money system and make tons and tons of money on AUTOPILOT by next week simply at the push of ONE button..(and while doing it they can be on their underwear while lying on the couch at the same time)

I personally think most (not all) copy writers are the biggest liar online.


Qamar

What do you all think of claims like "build a list of 100,000 responsive subscribers by next week with my underground method"

or "use my system to find tons of overlooked profitable niche with thousands of hungry desperate buyers who are waiting to throw their wallet to you.."

or "...press this button and it will generate 1000,000 targeted visitors to your website by next month..." ?

What are they? are they just harmless business gimmick or are they trying to touch your emotional button so that you will buy their sales pitch and throw your wallet at them instead?

Are these kind of "gimmicks" honest, truth and ethical? I don't know....

Qamar

I would treat it like a CV, nothing negative goes there

For Real lets kick everyone off the WF who has.... wait the WF then would be empty.

---------------------------------
????? Sig says:

"Step By Step Course Teaches Everything You Need To Know To Make Money With Your Blog"

For real everything? I think that might be a lie, I bet you don't teach me everything.



????? sig says:

"Create Powerful, Profit-Producing Articles in 20 Minutes or Less"

Really now less than 20 minutes I can create powerful profit proucing articles



????? sig says:

"One MILLION Dollars in Clickbank Sales in just 30 days"

OK...


????? sig says:
"WSO: Great Content Without Spending A Fortune"

Is this even a lie because a fortune to one is not to another.

Some a fortune is a dollar because that is what they make a dollar a day.

????? sig says:
"The Only Article Marketing Guide You Will EVER Need"

Really the only one I will ever need?


???? sig says:

"Do You Know How to Stop OCD? I Do!"

Really... well can you contact Howie Mandel I'm sure he would pay big money....

---------------------------------------

these post are from Sig from people who post here and tell him not to lie...

all I can say is FOR REAL

Richard

"A lie never lives to be old." Tell the truth Tom; for it will catch up with you.

JohnMcCabe

I never said I don't lie and never said to do it or not.

Just LOL at people who say not to but then they do it.

???? Sig says"

"WarriorGigs.com Where you can offer others your service, 7 dollars - 997 bucks earn more at Warrior Gigs."

Earn more? More than what?

not doing it at all... who knows you fill in the blank in your head

Can you guarantee that? nothing about a guarantee there... johnny

point is nothing is 100% honest ....is it.

Richard

WOW just seen this thread again, 140 comments wow. I think the discussion is that lying on the sales pages is done quite a lot of the time but I think everyone is used to it by now. It shouldn't be done but is.

Lie? Why do you want to do such a thing. Go ahead soon or later someone will figure it out your name will be scam.com

Basically man, I see it like this. If you have to lie about your sales figures and about how much money you make online, you probably shouldn't be making a product yet.

My advise would be to get back to affiliate marketing and really scale that income up until telling the truth seems like a lie.

How bout them apples?! Lol

No. Do not lie. Remember the value of being an honest marketer. Priceless.

At least the OP is honest when he said that he intended to lie.....can't you all see that? in fact he could be more honest than some of us who says "don't lie" but actually went ahead and lied in our sales page...LOL Qamar