Official Certified Warrior Seal of B.S.

15 years ago

People like Willie are already known to be reputable and trusted. He doesn't need anyone's seal of approval.

Plus, who defines what counts as BS? Much of what is posted is opinion, which by definition is not necessarily right or wrong.

Someone can post a true story but others may not believe it. Does that make it BS?

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JohnMcCabe

15 years ago

Far more efficient and effective to simply delete pure BS and ban repeat offenders. Even if Allen created some kind of seal, as you describe it, those worthy of using it have better things to do with their time than calling out BSers.

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ExRat

15 years ago

Hi 13th Warrior,

I don't know if it's my twisted sense of humour, but your post rubbed me up the right way.

I'm not suggesting that your idea isn't ridiculous, but your turn of phrase gave me a chuckle - thanks.

Thanks
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OnlineMasterMind

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi 13th Warrior,

I don't know if it's my twisted sense of humour, but your post rubbed me up the right way.

I'm not suggesting that your idea isn't ridiculous, but your turn of phrase gave me a chuckle - thanks.

yeah, that was pretty funny

Thanks
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ExRat

15 years ago

Hi Marc,

would you believe him if he posted that he made $1,000,000 from a single launch in less than a week?

That's a great example of the difference that interpretation makes, as mentioned by others above.

Depending on how you interpret the word 'made' from that quote, depends on whether you see that kind of post as truth or BS. Many people have 'made' $100 and spent $200 to do so.

Hi 13th,

I get your point, but I think your opinion is far on the other side of empathy, and maybe that works for you, and its sincere, so thanks.

Not everyone has the patience to be a teacher.

I appreciate you observing the sincerity, and I also understand why you see it that way - RE- empathy. But I would add that the reason has more to do with effectiveness than lack of empathy or patience. I believe that it demonstrates more empathy to teach someone well, the first and last time than to teach badly by trying to do someone's thinking for them.

How much help do you truly give someone when you have patience with their naivety - in a business environment? I wouldn't prescribe 'lack of patience' as the ideal solution - but I would try and make my teachings quick, effective and with learning them presented as a priority matter - as a deal-breaker regarding whether that person has what it takes.

So in this example, a forum where people go who want to learn about becoming an online entrepreneur - I feel that pushing others to develop their analytical, investigative, decision-making and independence skills for themselves from 'the off' is as empathetic as you can get

And the more (seasoned/successful) people that demonstrate these attributes and lead by example, the better. They are helping, leading, inspiring and educating just by being.

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The 13th Warrior

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi 13th,

I appreciate you observing the sincerity, and I also understand why you see it that way - RE- empathy. But I would add that the reason has more to do with effectiveness than lack of empathy or patience. I believe that it demonstrates more empathy to teach someone well, the first and last time than to teach badly by trying to do someone's thinking for them.

Total agreement. But the line of "doing someone else's thinking for them" being as synonomus as putting up danger signs like " Caution- man eating lion that killed 53 people and counting beyond this point-do not enter" may be depend on each persons judgement. I can respect and have an open mind on both sides of this opinion.

Originally Posted by ExRat

How much help do you truly give someone when you have patience with their naivety - in a business environment? I wouldn't prescribe 'lack of patience' as the ideal solution - but I would try and make my teachings quick, effective and with learning them presented as a priority matter - as a deal-breaker regarding whether that person has what it takes.

Another good take. Just because a person wants to be an iron-worker does not mean everyone is cut out to walk on a beam 10" wide 20 stories up with only a safety rope on the back of their tool belt. Still, this picture should be clearly presented to someone considering it , so one exactly pretty much one one is in for. Most informational claims do not paint this picture of reality, so why buy a tool belt, hard hat, steel toe shoes, union card, etc,. when you had no idea you would be 20 stories up with heightened sensitivity and awareness of every breeze and wind? (can you tell I don't like heights?) ;-)

"Copy Interpretation" and similar "this works" opinion post is what I was mostly focusing on.

Originally Posted by ExRat

So in this example, a forum where people go who want to learn about becoming an online entrepreneur - I feel that pushing others to develop their analytical, investigative, decision-making and independence skills for themselves from 'the off' is as empathetic as you can get

Sure. Agreed. But how long does a boxing coach/teacher spend on his student just in the mechanics of a jab? I watched as he grabs the guy arm and shows how to twist the waist and all that. It took considerable time. And some coaches that just demonstrated. Once he was satisfied the proper fundamentals and mechanics was in place, THEN he left it up to the student to make it his own. Even after that, the coach kept harping on basics he taught the guy 3 years ago.

Some post here gives good formula for spotting postings with questionable merit. All I was saying a seal to a strongly felt post by a senior warrior.

Who knows ALL the trusted warriors here anyway? There maybe some post you read here academically, but when some warriors post, you stand up a put the paper closer to your face and re-read with more focus because of his known rep, IF you know it.

Originally Posted by ExRat

And the more (seasoned/successful) people that demonstrate these attributes and lead by example, the better. They are helping, leading, inspiring and educating just by being.

I agree and disagree with this statement. Yeah, everything in the above quote is all good.

But somebody, just to throw an example, like Donald Trump, who puts his self out there and says, "look at my mug on t.v. and everywhere and all my stuff, see, my example says you can do it" is somewhat lame.

Especially someone like him and others who put up superficial info/teasers so you think if you bought into his stuff, you can get some of his success. That he is going to show and/or teach you something to practically implement immediately to get success for yourself to anyone if they just but tune it when he decides to spew something out, because everything he puts out has value,........BULL-"EFF'IN"- S.

That gives reason to selfishness. Just me being successful, not giving real advice, not helping anyone with real tools, just living and blinging, is my contribution to humanity and history.

This, in and of itself, I vehemetly disagree.

Just because someone falls from a 20 story building and survives and then writes a book about how he survived don't mean everyone should follow, because hey, he did it, must mean it can be done.

The 13 th Warrior

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The 13th Warrior

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Far more efficient and effective to simply delete pure BS and ban repeat offenders. Even if Allen created some kind of seal, as you describe it, those worthy of using it have better things to do with their time than calling out BSers.

Thats good ,too. Like I said, just throwin it out there.

But I still think there is some merit to what is presented.

Willie Crawford is easy. But some are not so well known.

Also, Senior warriors may have better things to do, but if you took time to type and post, how much harder is it to "click" a seal?

The 13 th Warrior

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by The 13 th Warrior

Thats good ,too. Like I said, just throwin it out there.

But I still think there is some merit to what is presented.

Willie Crawford is easy. But some are not so well known.

Also, Senior warriors may have better things to do, but if you took time to type and post, how much harder is it to "click" a seal?

The 13 th Warrior

I actually like the idea, but I wouldn't want the responsibility. Last thing I
need is people whining to me, "Why did you label my post as BS?"

"Because it is turnips for brains!"

I know it'll never happen, but yeah, it would be cool. Some jackass comes
here, spews his manure and suddenly gets hit with a boat load of BS
labels.

Think he'll ever make another dumbass (sorry John Taylor) post again?

Somehow, I doubt it.

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JohnMcCabe

15 years ago

Originally Posted by The 13 th Warrior

Thats good ,too. Like I said, just throwin it out there.

But I still think there is some merit to what is presented.

Willie Crawford is easy. But some are not so well known.

Also, Senior warriors may have better things to do, but if you took time to type and post, how much harder is it to "click" a seal?

The 13 th Warrior

13th, if every post was read by a Warrior with "seal power", such a scheme might work. Might...

Just this main forum is closing in on 15,000 threads containing over 160,000 posts. If there are a dozen of the Warriors you described in your OP, that would mean each would have to read over 13,000 posts just for single coverage.

I'll echo what Steven said, that the idea might be fun, but I wouldn't want the hassle of people "arguing the call on the field." Just the scale is daunting...

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ExRat

15 years ago

Hi 13th,

Another thought - once warriors get out of the forum into the big bad world, there are no seals of approval or seals of B.S.

Therefore, by not giving out seals warrior is actually better equipping newbs to survive outside of the forum by training them to spot the pretenders in here.

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The 13th Warrior

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi 13th,

Another thought - once warriors get out of the forum into the big bad world, there are no seals of approval or seals of B.S.

Therefore, by not giving out seals warrior is actually better equipping newbs to survive outside of the forum by training them to spot the pretenders in here.

Maybe. But not everyone is that good.

Most purchases I make and do not make is a result of checking out this forum. Very powerful stuff.

Whats the difference with a Seal you can see vs 30 post badgering a guy as a B.S.'er?

I've seen post where people with no experience simply jump on the "beatdown" bandwagon.

Worrying about repercutions because of seals....I just read a post were a guy was beatdown so bad, he never responded again. I also seen a newb post a defense who had no idea or concept of the danger and cost of such a B.S. idea, the opinion of newb being, "give him a chance", "why would he lie" , etc.,

Like some street fight, they neither know nor care the what ,why or reason, they simply pile on cause everyone else is doing.

Bottom line is, not everyone knows who are the warriors to take notice of, trust meaning that not everything Senior members/proven warriors says is gold, but a least it has the utmost sincere spirit ,honesty and earnest in giving his best, like Steve here.

The 13 th Warrior

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Eric Lorence 15 years ago

What a can of worms that would open, another very popular forum just succumbed to harsh accusations of favoritism, and the owner even admitted to loosing friends over the matter.

Many mostly newer members have already abused the report button, simply because they disagreed with the OP, and it could happen to anyone, justified or not.

The theory seems good, but in practice could become a disaster.

Just my opinion.
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- The 13th Warrior 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Eric Lorence
  
  The theory seems good, but in practice could become a disaster.
  
  Good one. That's why I threw it out there.
  
  Not everything in theory, no matter how mathematically correct on paper, works in the real world.
  
  That was a very balaced point, Eric.
  
  In fact, a very sobering opinion to be considered, thanks.
  
  The 13 th Warrior
  
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Floyd Fisher 15 years ago

I've thought about...and think you may have a problem.

It seems a warrior named 'Big Mike' holds rights to the official BS seal.

Wonder if he will sell rights to the forum?
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Jared Alberghini

15 years ago

Wow... talk about making things complicated??? you are definately thinking too much...

it's as simple as ONE CLICK - Report The Post

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...oderators.html

- Jared

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jared Alberghini

Wow... talk about making things complicated??? you are definately thinking too much...

it's as simple as ONE CLICK - Report The Post

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...oderators.html

- Jared

Jared, the OP isn't talking about posts that break the rules. He's talking
about those "Do this to make $X in Y Days" posts with some absolute
BS way to do it.

They can't really be reported because they're not breaking any rules and
only a knowledgeable marketer would recognize it's BS, so by marketing it
as such, others will know not to bother with it.

I think it has merit, but like I said above, it ain't gonna happen.

But I'd love to see some poor sap get hit with about 10 of these for
coming up with an asinine idea

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The 13th Warrior

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

They can't really be reported because they're not breaking any rules and
only a knowledgeable marketer would recognize it's BS, so by marketing it
as such, others will know not to bother with it.

Yeah, this is what I'm talking about.

"KNOWLEDGEABLE" marketers.

Some can write and talk as good a Willie Crawford , as an example, but is bursting at the seams with B.S.

One can probably easily establish ones self as a person with a merit-ful opinion and reputation, simply by piggybacking the opinions of Senior Marketers. So if a guy checks all his post, he would say this guy must know something because he always agree with established marketers and disagree when THEY disagree.

Not everyone has the ability to detect B.S. from established , proven practices, especially a so-called " new twist" on an established practice.

The 13 th Warrior

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Jared Alberghini

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Jared, the OP isn't talking about posts that break the rules. He's talking
about those "Do this to make in Y Days" posts with some absolute
BS way to do it.

Steven, I understand what the OP is talking about... and one of these posts (how to make a 300,000 biz or something) was just nuked... if you got a chance to read it before it was deleted, it was basically saying make a video of yourself, and you will be rich... total BS...

They weren't 'technically' breaking any rules... but apparently enough people didn't like what they saw... and guess what? You don't see that post around here anymore do you?

My point I guess... if something is on the edge of breaking a rule... and people don't like it, we can report it. Simple as that...

- Jared

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jared Alberghini

Steven, I understand what the OP is talking about... and one of these posts (how to make a 300,000 biz or something) was just nuked... if you got a chance to read it before it was deleted, it was basically saying make a video of yourself, and you will be rich... total BS...

They weren't 'technically' breaking any rules... but apparently enough people didn't like what they saw... and guess what? You don't see that post around here anymore do you?

My point I guess... if something is on the edge of breaking a rule... and people don't like it, we can report it. Simple as that...

- Jared

Well, sure, we can report anything that we like (the problem with self
moderation) and let's face it, that can be abused real easily.

That's why I only report things that are blatant violations. I don't want to
become the thought police. Once we start dictating what is and what
isn't a "good" method, we run into real problems.

At least that's the way I look at it, though I am sure many will disagree.

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Simon_Sezs

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I don't want to
become the thought police. Once we start dictating what is and what
isn't a "good" method, we run into real problems.

At least that's the way I look at it, though I am sure many will disagree.

No, that was my first thought looking at this. Just imagine if a senior warrior had tried something that worked for others but not for them (for whatever reason..maybe they aren't an SEO guy or got butchered in PPC or aren't a writer)....why wouldn't the warrior attach a B.S. banner to it? After all, it didn't work for them, right?

Now obvious bullsh*t...that is another story but then again, newbie warriors should know that if it sounds to good to be true, typically it is....

Just my thoughts.

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Simon_Sezs

No, that was my first thought looking at this. Just imagine if a senior warrior had tried something that worked for others but not for them (for whatever reason..maybe they aren't an SEO guy or got butchered in PPC or aren't a writer)....why wouldn't the warrior attach a B.S. banner to it? After all, it didn't work for them, right?

Now obvious bullsh*t...that is another story but then again, newbie warriors should know that if it sounds to good to be true, typically it is....

Just my thoughts.

That's the problem Simon, what's obvious BS to one may not be so obvious
to another. I could give you tons of examples but I'd be here all day.

As a matter of fact, I could give you tons of examples of BS for most
people that have actually worked for me because I discovered the missing
piece to the puzzle. If you think BS is black and white, it's not. There are
more shades of gray than you can possibly imagine.

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The 13th Warrior

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

As a matter of fact, I could give you tons of examples of BS for most
people that have actually worked for me because I discovered the missing
piece to the puzzle.

Another nice one.

Hey, there's a new thread.

Stuff that is total B.S. according to everyone, but someone made it work.

I like your sober, balanced thinking , here.

B.S. to some, goldmine for others. A very open mind here.

The 13 th Warrior

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ExRat 15 years ago

Hi 13th,

Maybe. But not everyone is that good.

Then they need to get better or they won't survive in business. Hand-holding is not going to help.
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- The 13th Warrior 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ExRat
  
  Hi 13th,
  
  Then they need to get better or they won't survive in business.
  
  Agreed.
  
  Originally Posted by ExRat
  
  Hand-holding is not going to help.
  
  Point taken.
  
  So do you consider THE WAR ROOM hand holding? Most should read the thousands of post to garner some of this information?
  
  Do you consider "Warrior Approved" hand holding? Should'nt smart members already know what's good and whats not that special?
  
  I get your point, but I think your opinion is far on the other side of empathy, and maybe that works for you, and its sincere, so thanks.
  
  Not everyone has the patience to be a teacher.
  
  Even more, even if one is a teacher, not everyone has the patience to teach pre-schoolers, your ability and willingness to contribute SHOULD be based on your temperment to work at your most sincerest, which would mean at what level of student and subject you are willing to teach.
  
  I know I do not have some patience on some levels to relay information to a certain level of inquiry.
  
  The 13 th Warrior
  
  Thanks
  
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The 13th Warrior

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Simon_Sezs

Just imagine if a senior warrior had tried something that worked for others but not for them (for whatever reason..maybe they aren't an SEO guy or got butchered in PPC or aren't a writer)....why wouldn't the warrior attach a B.S. banner to it? After all, it didn't work for them, right?

Nice. That's a good point. But would a Senior member give an opinion about something he is not good at or has minimal experience in? The term "trusted warrior" would apply here.

Originally Posted by Simon_Sezs

Now obvious bullsh*t...that is another story but then again, newbie warriors should know that if it sounds to good to be true, typically it is....

Perhaps. Maybe some of us just don't have the short learning curve others have.

Some people lose only a few bucks on scams and learn quick to spot them, and others, now, are STILL losing money.

What's worse, losing money off someone who started out with a good reputation, then based upon that rep, now has a "can hash out crap" card.

Like Al Pacino and his movies lately. Snoozers if not outright stinkers.

His Ratio of more good vs bad is now reversed.

DeNiro getting there.

Two guys you USED to bet the farm on, as far as counting on their history when you purchase a movie ticket.

So are you saying now that a person that is either a Senior member, reputable business person or reading hundreds of post, they still don't lose money purchasing stuff that turned out to be crap they "may" or "shouldve" spotted??

My hats off to them that can do that without fail.

The 13 th Warrior

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marcanthony

15 years ago

If you are concerned about newbies...

Let them learn what good and bad
advice really is on their own.

And, who knows what they will get out
of bogus claims. Sometimes bogus
claims are really doable.

If John Reese was a nobody to people
in this forum... would you believe him
if he posted that he made $1,000,000
from a single launch in less than a week?

Probably not... most people would think
that it was a lie. But, he really did pull
that off.

Let newbies make up their own minds and
learn from the best teacher - experience.

Besides, people that make a lot of money
would not even bother to waste time sifting
through threads to stamp them with a
Warrior Seal of B.S..

This is more of a job for a hall monitor that
doesn't have anything else to do than not
make any money.

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ShayB

15 years ago

I already have a system I use to find "trusted warriors" - post counts.

If someone posts how they made a bazillion dollars and they have a post count in the single digits, I look at the method with a jaded eye.

If someone has been around for a few hundred or thousand posts, then I assume that they are more trustworthy. I check out their other posts for comparison.

If someone consistently provides helpful info and encourages others - that is my idea of a "trusted Warrior."

Is my method failsafe? No, but neither would a "seal of approval" be.

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Jared Alberghini

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Shay60654

I already have a system I use to find "trusted warriors" - post counts.

If someone posts how they made a bazillion dollars and they have a post count in the single digits, I look at the method with a jaded eye.

If someone has been around for a few hundred or thousand posts, then I assume that they are more trustworthy. I check out their other posts for comparison.

If someone consistently provides helpful info and encourages others - that is my idea of a "trusted Warrior."

Is my method failsafe? No, but neither would a "seal of approval" be.

Ya beat me to it Shay! I was just about to post my similar 'algorithm' that I use to gauge 'trusted warriors' or 'Warrior Ranking'

I look at three things...

Date Joined
Post Count
# of times they have been thanked

For example:

If someone just recently joined and has an unusually high post count, and nobody has thanked them even once... well that put's up a red flag for me... I would research this persons other posts before 'trusting' them.

If someone has at relatively low post count, has been here a little while, and has been thanked a handful of times... lets say even 10 times... even though they might look like a newbie, this ranks higher in my 'trusted' scale...

so:

date joined + high post count + many thanks = a winner!

- Jared

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The 13th Warrior

15 years ago

Originally Posted by marcanthony

If you are concerned about newbies...

Let them learn what good and bad
advice really is on their own.

Interesting sentiment.

Originally Posted by marcanthony

And, who knows what they will get out
of bogus claims. Sometimes bogus
claims are really doable.

If this statement is useful, why dissect any post or even come to the Warrior forum?

Originally Posted by marcanthony

Let newbies make up their own minds and
learn from the best teacher - experience.

My opinion is that is true, to a point. Isn't that why we come here, to cut the experience time in half or more?

Originally Posted by marcanthony

Besides, people that make a lot of money
would not even bother to waste time sifting
through threads to stamp them with a
Warrior Seal of B.S..

1st, I was not suggesting that one would sift thru previous post. Something for future post AS you are posting. Like I said, a theory or idea I was just throwin it out there. The practicality or non-practicality has merits.

Originally Posted by marcanthony

This is more of a job for a hall monitor that
doesn't have anything else to do than not
make any money.

So by your logic, you have just monitered this introductory idea of this post.

So people who have just done so, like on this post, had nothing better to do, like posting here? It can't be both? Either you are commenting/"hall monitering" cause you are not making money with your time because it is just too valuable to read trivial type post, like this one OR you are commenting/"hall monitering" your opinion on subject matters here because you are sincere, have an opinion AND are making money?

I was not suggesting anything more than you have just done right now, posting this. Only with the simple addition of a click to put a seal on it, if you feel very strongly, however practical or un-pragmatic this idea is.

The 13 th Warrior

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marcanthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by The 13 th Warrior

If this statement is useful, why dissect any post or even come to the Warrior forum?

I don't think that it's necessary to dissect any posts that might potentially discredit someone who posts garbage because there is no way to prove that their claims are actually garbage. Personally, I think that forums should be used for networking purposes. Forums are a great place to establish credibility.

Originally Posted by The 13 th Warrior

My opinion is that is true, to a point. Isn't that why we come here, to cut the experience time in half or more?

Everyone has a different reason why they come here. I'm not sure if the majority comes here to cut the experience time in half. Even if that ends up happening anyway.

Originally Posted by The 13 th Warrior

1st, I was not suggesting that one would sift thru previous post. Something for future post AS you are posting. Like I said, a theory or idea I was just throwin it out there. The practicality or non-practicality has merits.

And I was just throwing my opinion out there

Originally Posted by The 13 th Warrior

I was not suggesting anything more than you have just done right now, posting this. Only with the simple addition of a click to put a seal on it, if you feel very strongly, however practical or un-pragmatic this idea is.

The 13 th Warrior

And I kindly disagree with your idea of adding a "click to put a seal on it" feature.

Having the ability to click the thank you button or commenting in the thread is enough... that's my opinion.

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The 13th Warrior

15 years ago

Originally Posted by marcanthony

I don't think that it's necessary to dissect any posts that might potentially discredit someone who posts garbage because there is no way to prove that their claims are actually garbage.

You may have a point there. Unless a group of diverse people tested it, who could say. Point well taken.

Originally Posted by marcanthony

Everyone has a different reason why they come here. I'm not sure if the majority comes here to cut the experience time in half. Even if that ends up happening anyway.

I'll just leave that as your opinion. You may be right and you may be wrong. I'll let Administrator and/or creators of this forum state its purpose and will yield to that statement and your opinion if that statement mirrors your opinion.

All the newbie friendly, learn over my shoulder and the like stuff.....all the review questions of products, etc., have me leaning it is something to cut the learning curve as much as possible while not getting burned so much in the pocketbook.

Originally Posted by marcanthony

Having the ability to click the thank you button or commenting in the thread is enough... that's my opinion.

I am not sure about this one. If someone who knows nothing about marketing, no experience, earns nothing worth noting or consistantly,does nothing but post as an academic pasttime or exercise, his thank you or comment would be worth what?

There are people who could talk a mean game, can even con the "experienced" marketer sometimes, if simply judged by their correspondense.

Once you know the jargon, experienced people got took. Like one guy who had a dentist office, who only read books, a made some money, till he got caught.

Another guy with a suit and business cards conning experienced tradesman with a deal or investment commitment because he was personable, threw some names around and knew the jargon.

How many stories are out there then and now of experienced people, cops and judges even, that got took? Was it greed and suspending disbelief momentarily because the con seemed reasonable?

Or would more due diligence tools help them put up their radar?

Can there ever be enough due diligence tools?

The 13 th Warrior

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Michael Oksa

15 years ago

Originally Posted by The 13 th Warrior

There are people who could talk a mean game, can even con the "experienced" marketer sometimes, if simply judged by their correspondense.

Once you know the jargon, experienced people got took. Like one guy who had a dentist office, who only read books, a made some money, till he got caught.

Another guy with a suit and business cards conning experienced tradesman with a deal or investment commitment because he was personable, threw some names around and knew the jargon.

Yep, and sadly that could apply to someone earning a "Trusted Seal"

How many stories are out there then and now of experienced people, cops and judges even, that got took? Was it greed and suspending disbelief momentarily because the con seemed reasonable?

No, it's what we call "defense lawyers"! :p But, anyone can get took, even Admin - we are all human.

Or would more due diligence tools help them put up their radar?

Can there ever be enough due diligence tools?

We only need to use ONE due diligence tool - our brains.

Just saying.

But, again, I want to stress that even though I don't agree with THIS idea, I think it's great that you put the idea out there.

All the best,
Michael

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The 13th Warrior 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

We only need to use ONE due diligence tool - our brains.

I wonder. I still believe in my question, can there ever be enough due diligence tools?

There was a picture of Kenneth Lay sitting right next to and having a conversation with President George Bush. Buds.

If you were a investor or potential investor, you would look at similar type associations and say " the Prez would not hang aroung un-cool dudes, I think I'm safe or going to jump in."

WorldCom, Enron, Mortgage Crisis-even if you invested IN the Mortgage companies as a investment. Bears and Stearns....

Assuming a good association by anyone affiliated with such reputable companies..., now known as swampland......years of a good record instantly down the drain.

Is there ever someone or some entity that overall is reliable and a good standard of measure?

Maybe its all moot and a gamble, hit or miss.

No Siskel and Ebert of good and bad, worth your time and investment or not.

Like Siskel and Ebert, I disagree with some of their picks, but their track record with ME was 7 or 8 out of 10 recommendation was pretty good.

On the flip side, I did not keep a stat of what they disapproved of and how many of those were wrong out of 10.

A crack Consumers Digest team for IM's and their point for point type comparisons would be pretty nice.

The idea was simple to generate an idea to make it even more razor sharp and exact.

Far as I know, this Warrior Forum is pretty much at the top of that game.

There may be others.

The 13 th Warrior
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marcanthony

15 years ago

Originally Posted by The 13 th Warrior

All the newbie friendly, learn over my shoulder and the like stuff.....all the review questions of products, etc., have me leaning it is something to cut the learning curve as much as possible while not getting burned so much in the pocketbook.

I think that forums most definitely cut the learning curve in half... I just don't that it's the primary reason why people join.

Originally Posted by The 13 th Warrior

I am not sure about this one. If someone who knows nothing about marketing, no experience, earns nothing worth noting or consistantly,does nothing but post as an academic pasttime or exercise, his thank you or comment would be worth what?

I don't know what it would be worth to the person that decides to exercise the use of that feature.

I learn something from the thank you's that people receive all the time. It gives me a different perspective on what other people consider to be value.

See... just like you - I believe that crap is posted here all the time. In fact, I will admit that some of my own posts could have offered more value.

But... I never post lies.

If I say that I can convert a 100 person list at a 60% sales rate... I'm really telling the truth. In fact, I do it all the time.

Now... that may sound false to the person in charge of stamping posts with B.S. seals. And, if my post claiming that were to be stamped then I would look like a liar.

Originally Posted by The 13 th Warrior

There are people who could talk a mean game, can even con the "experienced" marketer sometimes, if simply judged by their correspondense.

The 13 th Warrior

I get your point here. However, within the realms of this topic... if experienced marketers start getting conned by posters then who would be qualified to use the B.S. seal?

Anyhow... no hard feelings. Just a difference in opinion.

Nice sparring with you...

Take care buddy

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Kay King

15 years ago

Of course there are bad posts here - it's a public forum and anyone can join.

But they can also be banned.

You seem to have an argument for almost every reason this is a bad idea - but what it seems to come down to is your statement

it is something to cut the learning curve as much as possible while not getting burned

You've also posted about having to read loads of posts in the War Room - but there are some fantastic threads there that can give you a real boost.
There is also Best Warrior Threads if you want to skip a lot of the BS threads.

I think what you want is to have all the correct info, in order, given to you so that you don't have to waste the time, feel the frustration or make the mistakes that the rest of us made along the way.

A very big part of working for yourself is learning to do your own due diligence before jumping on a bandwagon and to learn to make your own decisions about who is worth listening to. Those names will not be same for everyone.

kay

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Frank Donovan

15 years ago

Hi 13th

I accept entirely that your intention is to enhance the "user experience" of the WF. A noble cause.

I think the previous posts have covered most of the pros and cons of your proposals.

Just one thing...

This is a lively, diverse forum. There is no shortage of forceful opinion from new and experienced marketers.

Most dubious-sounding posts get their share of "questioning" and at the end of the day, it's all just opinion and the threads move on.

Under your suggestion, when an official WF spokesperson (i.e. a "Trusted Warrior" with seal) makes a defamatory and potentially career-ending BS claim against a poster, who would be liable for the resulting lawsuit? The "Trusted Warrior"? Allen? Both?

Dangerous ground, I fear.

Better that we all learn to detect BS by using our intelligence, common sense and instinct.

And not to rely on just one post (however wonderful-sounding) for our entire business plan.

Frank

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The 13th Warrior

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

Under your suggestion, when an official WF spokesperson (i.e. a "Trusted Warrior" with seal) makes a defamatory and potentially career-ending BS claim against a poster, who would be liable for the resulting lawsuit? The "Trusted Warrior"? Allen? Both?

Point taken. Would'nt want that to happen. How many superbowls or playoff games cost a whole season or couple seasons to get to that point, all blown by some dum refs call; one call away from the superbowl or winning the superbowl. Although everyone knows it, nothing could be done about it, his call.

The 13 th Warrior

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The 13th Warrior

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

You seem to have an argument for almost every reason this is a bad idea - but what it seems to come down to is your statement

Please re-read my post. It was just an idea thrown out. I was agreeing with a lot of reasons of why it would be a bad idea.

Originally Posted by Kay King

You've also posted about having to read loads of posts in the War Room - but there are some fantastic threads there that can give you a real boost.

My point here was to illustrate on my behalf as an example , if simply reading the post and interpreting other members response, a self-policeing effect, then why have the best post pointed out or warrior recommend section?

That was what I was getting at, except for good and bad post. Like RichJerk said, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Like RichJerk said, I thought this was like all the other "forums", fanboys attaboying each other to get sales and sale product, which a small percent may be going on, which is why I left for awhile.

I don't know if it was the newbie friendly stuff that brought me back or what is was , but on 2nd look, I realized the truth of what RichJerk just stated in these post.

Originally Posted by Kay King

I think what you want is to have all the correct info, in order, given to you so that you don't have to waste the time, feel the frustration or make the mistakes that the rest of us made along the way.

A very big part of working for yourself is learning to do your own due diligence before jumping on a bandwagon and to learn to make your own decisions about who is worth listening to. Those names will not be same for everyone.

Agreed. But what's wrong with cutting the learning curve, feeling less frustrated, a making less mistakes? I'm realistic and reasonable. But every product that comes out, good or bad addresses the need and/or setiment of the market.

So I guess you don't look for faster, better, easier, more effiecient ways and tools of doing things?

Isn't that one element of development and Internet Marketing evolution? The internet is constantly changing, yet some basics are still the same, merging the two efficently that works TODAY for you and/or others is one part of the trick.

If someone got there hands on very 1st "how to make money on the internet" when the internet 1st came out, it could probably work, so I, to prove that I don't mind wasting time and not be afraid of making my own mistakes will just dive right in.........although yesteryears method may take me 7-10 years and earn 1/20th of my "yobs" salary in all that time as compared to whats available today.

Ok, then, you tag me with this one, I'm glad to plead guilty.

The 13 th Warrior

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The 13th Warrior 15 years ago

Originally Posted by marcanthony

Nice sparring with you...

I can't disagree with your statements. You brought more good points.

Peace.

The 13 th Warrior
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The 13th Warrior

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Well, sure, we can report anything that we like (the problem with self
moderation) and let's face it, that can be abused real easily.

That's why I only report things that are blatant violations. I don't want to
become the thought police. Once we start dictating what is and what
isn't a "good" method, we run into real problems.

At least that's the way I look at it, though I am sure many will disagree.

Excellent. Another excellent point.

That's all I am talking about.

For instance, I think The War Room is a "seal" by admin of good, good GOOD stuff that should be looked at with more notice and seriousness.

A " outright knockout dropdead excellent" seal is not needed here, in this respect.

Just throwin out ideas along those lines.

The 13 th Warrior

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The 13th Warrior

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jared Alberghini

Wow... talk about making things complicated??? you are definately thinking too much...

it's as simple as ONE CLICK - Report The Post

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...oderators.html

- Jared

You may have a point.

But also consider people who talk good game, but never made a dime online.

Or people who may have a name, but either never made a dime or selling things they never implemented.

How many members are here? Who knows who's who? Anyone can post.

Senior members may not need such, but just remember back when you first started, everyone who can type or put up a website says, " Here's an opinion that's reliable, trust me".

This would help due dilegence for new folks. A direction of focus.

What's wrong with more focused due dilegence? How much more money would you have saved with just a tad more targeting?

Of course, you would have to have or remember some capacity of empathy for "new folks".

The 13 th Warrior

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Clark

15 years ago

Come on fellas, leave the seals alone.

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John Rowe

15 years ago

One man's B.S. (BullSh*t) may be another man's B.S. (BankStatement).

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by John Rowe

One man's B.S. (BullSh*t) may be another man's B.S. (BankStatement).

Nothing else needs to be said because John just wrote an entire book if you would really pay attention to his simple one line post..

Don't listen to the words of John's post but listen to the meaning behind those words and you will fully understand what he means..

Great post John ..

James

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The 13th Warrior

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Rowe
One man's B.S. (BullSh*t) may be another man's B.S. (BankStatement).

Nothing else needs to be said because John just wrote an entire book if you would really pay attention to his simple one line post..

Don't listen to the words of John's post but listen to the meaning behind those words and you will fully understand what he means..

Closer to a "club" than forum, as long as one does not break the rules.

In a club, you may have legitamite business men smoking expensive cigars as well as mamma's boys who live off their inheritance with no business experience but always have a "big" fish story , shady contacts, and deals ready to be put together you would'nt wish on your worst enemy.

In the club, relationships with members are as they are, good or bad, scammed or fell thru deal, as long as no club rules were violated.

In the social setting of the club, members can tell other members, new and old, all the fish stories they want.

The 13 th Warrior

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by The 13 th Warrior

Closer to a "club" than forum, as long as one does not break the rules.

In a club, you may have legitamite business men smoking expensive cigars as well as mamma's boys who live off their inheritance with no business experience but always have a "big" fish story , shady contacts, and deals ready to be put together you would'nt wish on your worst enemy.

In the club, relationships with members are as they are, good or bad, scammed or fell thru deal, as long as no club rules were violated.

In the social setting of the club, members can tell other members, new and old, all the fish stories they want.

The 13 th Warrior

I certainly did not view John's post as you have described... Pretty much John Rowe post what others have here.. only he said it in one line and for those that can read betwen the lines will understand excatly what he means..

I am not going to speak for John but his post as I see it is the same as what others including myself have said..

James

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The 13th Warrior

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

I certainly did not view John's post as you have described... Pretty much John Rowe post what others have here.. only he said it in one line and for those that can read betwen the lines will understand excatly what he means..

I am not going to speak for John but his post as I see it is the same as what others including myself have said..

I was simply trying to proximate what the Warrior Forum is similar to. No need to read between the lines when one has a perfectly working keyboard underfoot to say all that needs to be said, right here. We can take it.

Otherwise, let us type in symbols ,metaphors and speak in the language of Shakespeare.

The 13 th Warrior

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

Originally Posted by The 13 th Warrior

I was simply trying to proximate what the Warrior Forum is similar to. No need to read between the lines when one has a perfectly working keyboard underfoot to say all that needs to be said, right here. We can take it.

Otherwise, let us type in symbols ,metaphors and speak in the language of Shakespeare.

The 13 th Warrior

If you consider the WF the same as a club as you posted here...

Closer to a "club" than forum, as long as one does not break the rules.

In a club, you may have legitamite business men smoking expensive cigars as well as mamma's boys who live off their inheritance with no business experience but always have a "big" fish story , shady contacts, and deals ready to be put together you would'nt wish on your worst enemy.

Then I think you have missed the entire point of the WF because the "club" as you have explained in detail there would be the same as many wannabee forums .. Those forums that do have dictatorships and the long time members rule everything while the newbies are trashed and laughed at..

To say the WF is as a club as you have described is nothing more than an insult to Allen himself and the great members of the WF.. Negetivity is what does not belong here and I think this thread is getting very close to just that.

If you honestly view the WF as such then you have missed a goldmine of information, great friends, wonderful kind and loving people, true warriors that are willing to lift a hand to help someone else that otherwise would be lost to those "clubs".

Maybe I have taken your post on "clubs" out of context but you did say "I was simply trying to proximate what the Warrior Forum is similar to." and I am sorry this could not be further from the truth of what the WF is like.. Again the WF is in a class of it's own and 2nd to none...

Many will agree with this statement "What Allen has done here for the Warriors (including myself) we could not repay him if we lived to be 500 years old" ....

I think many have spoken here and the majority agrees.. It should be kept as is because it is not broken...

James

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The 13th Warrior

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Maybe I have taken your post on "clubs" out of context but you did say "I was simply trying to proximate what the Warrior Forum is similar to." and I am sorry this could not be further from the truth of what the WF is like.. Again the WF is in a class of it's own and 2nd to none...

These post are informing me on a clearer view of what the Warrior Forum is and/or is not.

By that last statement, I sense you have a better context of what this forum is than I do, and with that, am grateful for the view which is closer to the truth than what I was seeing.

One has to know were one is at, before proceeding intelligently. Don't bring boxing gear to a swimming meet.

The 13 th Warrior

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John Taylor

15 years ago

Sounds to me like you're abdicating responsibility for
your own due diligence.

So, if something goes wrong after following the advice
in a post with an implied "Seal of approval" you'll have
someone else to blame.

People learn far more from mistakes than they do from
successes.. give them room to learn.

John

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The 13th Warrior

15 years ago

Originally Posted by John Taylor

Sounds to me like you're abdicating responsibility for
your own due diligence.

So, if something goes wrong after following the advice
in a post with an implied "Seal of approval" you'll have
someone else to blame.

People learn far more from mistakes than they do from
successes.. give them room to learn.

John

Absolutely not abdicating resposibility. You telling me an extra tool of due diligence would not help? Maybe you don't need it, but some wants all the tools they can , save some money and time, like an electron microscope to "see" even further.

"Reasonable" persons know the difference. A person who normally "abdicates" responsiblity for their actions can never be pleased.

There are people I look up to who had a product and it was not for me. Not that is was a bad product, it was not for me, I did not ask for a refund and they continued to be a good example.

But I see your point as there are others who would never take responsiblity for much of anything.

The 13 th Warrior

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Michael Oksa

15 years ago

Not that it couldn't work, but why even have it?

Anyway, a few problems pop into mind.

1. Not ALL people you may think are "trusted Warriors" would deserve that designation. There are still those who are doing really well, but only pick up their activity at the forum before a new product launch.

2. Not every stays golden forever. Not to sound cynical, but what happens if a trusted Warrior goes astray? It could happen, and wouldn't that tarnish the whole seal? What if they use it after they fall? "Warrior Certified money-maker shares proven plan", or something similar.

3. What about new people that are just as worthy? I can think of a few new people that have really made their mark here, in a good way.

4. Even the best of us have bad days. Would the Warrior seal look right on a bad post from a "Trusted Warrior"?

Finally, we already have a system in place for this. It's called the "THANKS" button. This is good because it rewards good posts - regardless of how new someone is.

That's my take on it.

All the best,
Michael

p.s. Don't mean to sound so negative, I think it's great that people are thinking of ways to make the forum better (whether I agree or not).

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The 13th Warrior

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Not that it couldn't work, but why even have it?

Anyway, a few problems pop into mind.

1. Not ALL people you may think are "trusted Warriors" would deserve that designation. There are still those who are doing really well, but only pick up their activity at the forum before a new product launch.

2. Not every stays golden forever. Not to sound cynical, but what happens if a trusted Warrior goes astray? It could happen, and wouldn't that tarnish the whole seal? What if they use it after they fall? "Warrior Certified money-maker shares proven plan", or something similar.

3. What about new people that are just as worthy? I can think of a few new people that have really made their mark here, in a good way.

4. Even the best of us have bad days. Would the Warrior seal look right on a bad post from a "Trusted Warrior"?

Finally, we already have a system in place for this. It's called the "THANKS" button. This is good because it rewards good posts - regardless of how new someone is.

That's my take on it.

All the best,
Michael

p.s. Don't mean to sound so negative, I think it's great that people are thinking of ways to make the forum better (whether I agree or not).

1) Thats a good point. Now thats a constructive "against" for the idea presented.

2) Another BOMB of good points. Very sober opinion here. It has happened. I bought something from few that was great, then their following stuff was "rushed put together" garbage. Excellent point.

3) Man, 3 for 3, good stuff here. Makes a whole lot of sense.

4) Now this one is interesting. You have a bad day, put a seal on something thats crap, and even if you re-edit and change your opinion, I am out of money, too late.

But I would still understand, and would still look up to the Warrior....especially if he had a descent track record, this is understandable, for reasonable people, but a lot would not be so reasonable and one mistake would, in the eyes of one who abdicates responsibility, make that warrior forever trash in his eyes.

So if you had a method for the masses for due diligence, you always have to consider the bad apples, which would make the method a go or scrap it all together.

The 13 th Warrior

P.S. Those points are really a wide perspective, looking at all sides, nice. Very balanced vision. If thats a vitamin, gimme some, I'm ready to buy.

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Michael Oksa

15 years ago

LOL,

I just re-read the OP and see I missed one of the major points of the post.

About handing out Warrior B.S. seals: to me you are treading on dangerous ground in regards to Rule #1.

Nobody's opinion is more valid than anyone else's; that's why it's called opinion.

The way to fix that is if anyone were to give out a B.S. Seal, they would have to explain WHY it was B.S. - and that's exactly what happens now.

I appreciate your trying to make the WF even better, but this is one case where I don't think anything's broken.

All the best,
Michael

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TheRichJerksNet

15 years ago

You asking for more trouble than what it is worth.. and I think you would find it wouldmake things much more complex then what they need to be. I would not agree with this method at all...

When you start dictating who is worthy and who is not then you are asking for torubles and not just from long time warriors but also new warriors. Also the forum itself (Allen Says to be exact) is saying who is trust worthy and who is not in the eyes ofthose newbies that come here looking for direction... That may not be the way it is meant to be viewed but it would be viewed exactly like that..

The WF is in a class of it's own and it needs to stay there, what you propose will drop the value of this forum and put it in the same class as others.. That is not a good thing, many many people have come here looking for something different than a "Forum" and many many have found just that a true warrior metting place that is meant to be helpful to all and to each other.

This forum (and I really hate calling it a forum because it is way more than that) is responsible for many people's success and has helped create millions in sales over the years. Allen has done something here that 98% of the others site only wish they could do..

There is just no way in hell this idea would work for any good of the forum. I base my opinion on being online for over 20 years and the fact that this forum has done so much for me and others ..

If it aint broke don't try to fix it ... Got a problem use the report button, it's that simple..

James

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The 13th Warrior

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

The WF is in a class of it's own and it needs to stay there, what you propose will drop the value of this forum and put it in the same class as others.. That is not a good thing, many many people have come here looking for something different than a "Forum" and many many have found just that a true warrior metting place that is meant to be helpful to all and to each other.

From the look of several post here, this may be closer to the truth. Not necessarily a "Forum" or its common definitions.

Perhaps the looking or re-reading of the mission statement here, if there is one, is in the cards.

Interesting feedback.

The 13 th Warrior

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Michael Oksa

15 years ago

One final question.

What if a "Seal-Certified Trusted Warrior" decided THIS post deserved a B.S. Seal?

See the problem?

This isn't a forum made up, nor moderated by Super Warriors. It is a forum by and for ALL members. What you are suggesting would change that balance.

We all have the ability to click that little triangle.

All the best,
Michael

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HeySal

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

One final question.

What if a "Seal-Certified Trusted Warrior" decided THIS post deserved a B.S. Seal?

See the problem?

This isn't a forum made up, nor moderated by Super Warriors. It is a forum by and for ALL members. What you are suggesting would change that balance.

We all have the ability to click that little triangle.

All the best,
Michael

Awe, but Michael, plutocracies are so much more fun. At least when you're the one with the click authority.

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Michael Oksa 15 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Awe, but Michael, plutocracies are so much more fun. At least when you're the one with the click authority.

Hey Sal,

Maybe more of an oligarchy, because the amountof welath one has wouldn't automatically give them the power.

All the best,
Michael
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- The 13th Warrior 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Michael Oksa
  
  Maybe more of an oligarchy, because the amountof welath one has wouldn't automatically give them the power.
  
  Makes me wonder if this and other microcosm systems are more airtight or better run and policeing than the system at large, ethics commitee, financial oversight commitee and so forth.
  
  The smaller system running better than the bigger system, although its part of the bigger system.
  
  Maybe we would not be in AS big a mess.
  
  Maybe I could do like what one of Bush's resigned members did. Push thru legislation so the FDA to approve a proven poison that all the research has agreed upon such as aspartame to be approved and added to food. He got a big , big chunk of dough by the aspartame big boys to do that....their own private lobbyist/inside man.
  
  Don't think I would get away with that here, at the Warrior Forum.
  
  The 13 th Warrior
  
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Raymond Edeh Banned 15 years ago

[DELETED]

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- John Taylor 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Raymond Edeh
  
  For crying out loud, this is a democratic forum: a forum of the people, by the people and for the people as far as I'm concerned.
  
  No it isn't.
  
  This is Allen's forum, it's not a democracy; that's
  a false assumption made by many people who
  acquired new usernames in the past.
  
  John
  
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grumpyjacksa 15 years ago

i can see the 13th W reasoning. there have bben posts that i took with a bit of salt, but a complete newbie may come and believe it.

just like many of us believed all the mlm promises out there before we came here......

unfortunately, this concept may lead to a witch hunt.

SO

there is one alternative.

check how many times someone has been thanked.....

you will immediately see the worth of that person's contribution

just my 0.02c.....
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Louis Raven

15 years ago

I know I'd put that B.S seal on this thread.

It doesn't relate to Internet marketing in any way and will definitely put off future members. As if they don't fear posting as it is (30.000 lurkers lol), now you want to make them stand up in front of everyone to be laughed at.

I love hearing the success stories including the B.S ones. B.S or not.. people will definitely think twice about posting their honest "make money like me" threads.

Anyhow we have B.S seal but without the lynching, it's called infraction.

Also, I agree with John.T in which everyone should learn from their mistakes and grow stronger. If it really is such dangerous B.S it will be binned in seconds as we're all moderators.

Why do I feal like I'm the first to get one? :p

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The 13th Warrior 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Louis Raven

If it really is such dangerous B.S it will be binned in seconds as we're all moderators.

Did'nt consider this as a tool. I suppose if it was very bad, potentially harmful, it would be banned or removed.

Got it.

The 13 th Warrior
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Joseph Then

15 years ago

Why complicate things when it is already simplified???

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jjpmarketing

15 years ago

It is quite simple. The value of a post can vary wildly with each person reading the post. BS to one person, may not be BS to another person.

The reason being is some BS posts can inspire great ideas. There may be one or two lines in the post that may be total BS, but might trigger a completely different idea that may be of tremendous value to the person reading the post. So while that post may still be BS, it for a moment had some value.

If the post is loaded with enough BS, then most will ignore it, while the remaining viewers will post counter arguments for the BS. Then eventually it will get buried in the many threads that get posted here every day.

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The 13th Warrior

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jjpmarketing

The reason being is some BS posts can inspire great ideas. There may be one or two lines in the post that may be total BS, but might trigger a completely different idea that may be of tremendous value to the person reading the post. So while that post may still be BS, it for a moment had some value.

I seen a book advertised a while back, showing how to take sleazy, dirtbag copy , learn from it, and turn it into profit and the force for legitamite products.

Yep.

The 13 th Warrior

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John Taylor

15 years ago

It makes me wonder if people with less than 100 posts
and who have been members of the forum for less than
7 days should be allowed to post threads about how the
forum is run. Especially when those people have no real
identity other than a username.

Why don't we leave running the forum to Allen and get
on with making money?

John

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Michael Oksa

15 years ago

Originally Posted by John Taylor

It makes me wonder if people with less than 100 posts
and who have been members of the forum for less than
7 days should be allowed to post threads about how the
forum is run. Especially when those people have no real
identity other than a username.

Why don't we leave running the forum to Allen and get
on with making money?

John

Hi John,

To be fair, if you're referring to the OP, then he's been a member since 2007. So that's over a year to rack up the post count (26 of which are in this thread alone).

Not that it matters, but I wanted to make sure you had the numbers straight.

All the best,
Michael

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