Is Article Spinning considered as Black Hat?

by sappacis13 88 replies
Hi!

I know spinning articles is not challenging but sometimes it helps.

Is Article Spinning considered as Black Hat?

Hope for reply. Thanks!

#main internet marketing discussion forum #article #black #bluefart #considered #hat #spinning
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  • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
    I would not think so.

    It is not attempting to manipulate anyone. In reality it probably results in articles which do not produce clicks and are only useful for backlinks anyway. You have to be very talented, professional, and detail oriented to create high quality spun articles.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Maybe it called be regarded as spam if you blast them out to thousands of sites. Just spinning articles to included different niche keywords isn't BH - it's what you'd do manually anyway just to offer value but consider SEs.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ntech25
    I think if you take 2 articles spin them together and make 1000 to me that's kinda spammy. What I do for my stuff. Is I usually have 2 articles written on the same topic and same style. Then I spin Paragraph 1 with Article 1 and 2 and so on. Then in each paragraphs I also spin words. Out of those I would maybe spin to 25 to 50 articles to use for web2.0 and backlinking..
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    You have to be very talented, professional, and detail oriented to create high quality spun articles.
    If you use a spinner like TBS or Spinnerchief, it is really no big deal to generate REALLY good looking spun articles.
    You simply "walk" from one word to another and choose matching synonyms. I can think of several other things to do which require much more "professionalism"...
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  • Profile picture of the author Sharon Lai
    I don't think that article spinning is considered as black hat. As long as the spun articles are of good quality it should be fine
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  • Profile picture of the author brandon2664
    I don't really care if it is considered black hat or not. I don't think it is and the serps aren't gonna penalize you so there is nothing to loose.
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  • Profile picture of the author NateRivers
    Like others have said, there's nothing black hat about spinning in itself. Once you've spun the articles it depends on how you distribute them that could be considered spam.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Can I put a spin on this? (Excuse the pun)

      Spinning your own articles - is that what we're talking about?

      Or are we, as I've seen people do here, successfully, Taking other people's articles and spinning them?

      I know for a fact there are people (person) here (not this thread) that have taken people's articles from EZA, spun them, then resubmitted them? Successfully too.

      I know that's against EZA's TOS, but, my point is...

      ...Is that BlueFart, pinkfart or blackcap?

      Had to add that last bit as I saw "blackh*t" got changed to bluefart!
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        Or are we, as I've seen people do here, successfully, Taking other people's articles and spinning them?
        Ooh, good point. I was just about to reply saying "not black hat - just a waste of time, usually", but I see what you mean. Yes, spinning other people's work is obviously theft, if you don't own the rights.
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        • Profile picture of the author steveshills
          Most things can be considered black hat, eg: building backlinks via forum profile links, building links wheels from web 2.0 sites, blog comments that are not on topic to your niche. The way i see it, making an income is like anything in life, just tread carefully, and your be ok.

          Just dont rip of other peoples work, and we all copy each other in one way or another. Do what you have to so your business is successful and stop worrying about the little things such as these.
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      • Profile picture of the author aj113
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        .....
        ...Is that BlueFart, pinkfart or blackcap?
        It's a good question. When is a spun article not a spun article? It is considered to be good form to 'do your research' and then write your own article. But what if all the stuff you want to write about is in one article? Is it good form to write that article up in your own words? If so, why does it suddenly become bad form to just to spin it? How is that different from rewriting? (Not the technicalities, the principles/morals)

        Spinnerchief has 'sentence rewrite' function. It splits the original article in to managable phrases, which makes it easy to manually rewrite the phrases. i.e. no synonyms added from a thesaurus. Is that acceptable? If not why not?

        Had to add that last bit as I saw "blackh*t" got changed to bluefart!
        Depends how blacĸhаt you are.
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  • Profile picture of the author tobyR
    theres nothing black hat about it but its about the quality of the material at the end that counts, personally I find spun articles are not great and still have to be edited and re vamped - so I dont use them
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  • Profile picture of the author alcymart
    I have a tendancy to say spinning isn't black hat and here's why I think this way...

    I use a spinner to help me rewrite an article for antonyms purpose. It takes me as long if not longer to spin than if I rewrote a completely new article.

    Take care,

    Bernard St-Pierre
    Marketing Consultant
    Copywriter/Teacher
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  • Profile picture of the author officer_iron
    I don't consider it BH. People are too quick to call something BH, just because they don't use it. To me, BH is something that is actually cheating. Like cookie stuffing. That's definitely cheating, and thus I consider it BH.

    Things like spinning, to me that's just saving time and why wouldn't you want to save time? That's like saying submitting your URL to a website that gives you backlinks is BH. It would be perfectly legal to go to each one of those sites and create the backlink yourself, so using the site is just saving time. Not BH in my opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
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  • Profile picture of the author aj113
    Ah, I see you found the 'autospin' button on your software. Somehow I don't think that is what is under discussion here.
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    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      The point I was trying to make is that it is probably more pathetic than black hat.

      Originally Posted by aj113 View Post

      Ah, I see you found the 'autospin' button on your software. Somehow I don't think that is what is under discussion here.
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  • Profile picture of the author K_tir
    No it is not black hat. It is not even gray hat.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    For the purposes of syndication, spinning is a waste of time, however, if you run a membership program such as a PLR article a day type thing, then spinning is the best thing since sliced bread because not only can your subscribers get unlimited unique articles they can use, but because of the time you have saved them, you can charge a whole lot more for membership.

    Article spinning is not 'bl*ckhat,' however taking somebody elses article and spinning it so you can pass it off as your own is illegal.

    Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author aj113
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      .....however taking somebody elses article and spinning it so you can pass it off as your own is illegal.

      Chris
      Really? Ok, show me the law please.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        AJ,

        I believe I told you and Richard not to speak to each other or comment on each other's posts. That still stands.

        As far as the legal aspect of taking someone else's articles and spinning them... It would be interesting to hear from someone with experience in copyright law if that falls (or might fall) under the concept of derivative works.

        I personally think it's slimy, but that's got nothing to do with the legal aspect of it.


        Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    Paul,

    During my senior school days, I knew of several people who re-wrote articles etc so they could pass them off as their own unique content when it came to writing their essays....they got caught and were failed for plagiarism.

    A lot of people on this forum think that Copyscape is the be all and end all for detecting plagiarism when in fact, most teachers and academic staff have access to far more powerfull resources for detecting plagiarism and fraud, far superior to what Copyscape does, such as being able to identify when sentences and paragraphs have been heavily rewritten(not how many words on the page match the seed article)

    Isn't plagiarism illegal?

    Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Chris,
      Isn't plagiarism illegal?
      Nope. It is grounds for punishment in educational and journalistic settings, but it's a different bird from copyright. Related, but not the same.


      Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author aj113
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      ...Isn't plagiarism illegal?..
      Maybe but that is not what you said, and not what I asked. Can you provide references to a case where someone was prosecuted for spinning articles?

      In any case, whether plagiarism is illegal or not is a moot point. The question is: is article spinning plagiarism? I doubt it. I suspect that each case would need to be treated on its individual aspects.
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Chris,Nope. It is grounds for punishment in educational and journalistic settings, but it's a different bird from copyright. Related, but not the same.


        Paul
        Well never mind then, but it would be interesting to see if Kindsvater could shed some light.

        Chris
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Well,

          haven't we gone all off topic?

          The question of the thread was..

          Is article spinning considered as bl*ckhat?
          I asked a good question.

          Is it bl*ckhat...not illegal, not morally right, to take someone else's work, from a directory, spin it, resubmit it to the same directory and say it's your own?

          Is that bl*ckhat?

          Fairly straight forward question really?

          Is it or isn't it?

          Anyhow, I'm going to bed now. So I'll see you all in the morning.
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          • Profile picture of the author Paleochora
            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

            Well,

            haven't we gone all off topic?

            The question of the thread was..

            I asked a good question.

            Is it bl*ckhat...not illegal, not morally right, to take someone else's work, from a directory, spin it, resubmit it to the same directory and say it's your own?

            Is that bl*ckhat?

            Fairly straight forward question really?

            Is it or isn't it?

            Anyhow, I'm going to bed now. So I'll see you all in the morning.
            For a second, take the spinning out of the equation as that is merely the tool being used to speed up a rewrite of an article.

            Once you clear away the automation, how is this different to deciding to write an article on a given subject and researching your article by reading and making notes from existing articles written by other people?

            This is perhaps how a majority of people tackle article writing. All the spinning aspect does is speed up the process.

            It also aids people with a limited vocabulary, people for whom English is not the first language for example, by suggesting viable synonyms which they probably would not otherwise have identified and used.

            So, BH? Nah.... Not at all, in my opinion.
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            • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
              Hi Paleochora,

              Sadly I've been down this road before and due to the advice of moderators, it's difficult for me to say much. I have no intention of argueing and have enjoyed reading many of your own posts, so please take what I've written here at face value...

              If you read what I said I never said it was or wasn't BH, what I did was ask if it was BH and you have very kindly answered.

              I think, however, your answer would have been better directed at the OP who started the thread as well, I merely put another spin on it ( excuse me).

              But I agree with what you say to an extent. If you write your own article by researching a subject, you will no doubt look at lot's of different pieces of news, posts, articles and even books, so yes, you are effectively making a good point.

              I don't however, solely rely on other peoples articles to write my own.

              This however seems a bit different to my question though, of taking one article someone else wrote, spinning it and putting it back in the same article directory, as your own work - but of course that is just my opinion. That's not to say it is or isn't BH, it does to me, however, seem different to what I do. To you it may not and that's fine.

              My other question was if Paul Myers thinks it is Plagiarism to do the above, is that BH? If you don't think it is plagiarism, you need to take this arguement up with Paul instead.

              As someone else here has said. BH isn't something defined by a defintion that has boundaries. It's open to interpretation.

              Personally, I'm not even concerned and would be very grateful if you took this subject up with others in this thread, as I really have no interest in getting any further involved. I was just asking a question and like many others in this thread, you have very kindly given me your opinion. Thank you.

              I hope the OP reads this though, as it is his thread and he brought up the subject.

              All the very best to you Paleochora.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Originally Posted by aj113 View Post

        The question is: is article spinning plagiarism?
        If you're spinning someone else's article? Yes. Absolutely.

        Spinning your own? No. Just littering, the way most people do it.

        The pertinent legal question is, is it (spinning another's content) copyright infringement under the concept of derivative work? That is far from clear to me.


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        • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          If you're spinning someone else's article? Yes. Absolutely.

          Spinning your own? No. Just littering, the way most people do it.

          The pertinent legal question is, is it (spinning another's content) copyright infringement under the concept of derivative work? That is far from clear to me.


          Paul

          Interesting question, and I'm guessing outright spinning another's work would fall
          under infringement. I will guess the current laws were written before spinning came
          into existence. It would be nice if Mr. Kindsvaters would stop by and say something
          based on legal interpretation as opposed to others' pursuit of more social proof here
          at the WF.

          It would also be nice to see more intelligent discussion sans the usual people dispensing
          their judgments and worn-out opinion-trumpeting on these matters.

          While I'm sure catering to one's followers is ego-gratifying, other than that I doubt
          very many care if a particular person thinks it is a waste of time or whatever.


          Ken
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          • Profile picture of the author aj113
            Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

            .... It would be nice if Mr. Kindsvaters would stop by and say something
            based on legal interpretation as opposed to others' pursuit of more social proof here
            at the WF.....
            That would be interesting, but in the real world I think case history is more relevant.
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            • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
              Originally Posted by aj113 View Post

              That would be interesting, but in the real world I think case history is more relevant.

              Hi,

              Of course case histories are relevant and cannot be neglected. Indeed, many
              laws and legal arguments are given merit on the basis of precedence which
              are derived from case histories (in the legal sense).

              However, the last word in all legal questions eventually rests on what is written
              in law. Of course case histories can be discussed, and they are all interesting.
              But it does not really matter if they make a counter point with respect to the
              existing law applicable to what ever point is being argued using any case history.

              Internet lawyers...

              Yes, some do exist and have for many years. Len Thurmond comes to mind. There
              is another person whose name escapes me at the moment. But Mr. Thurmond
              is very well known in the area of internet law. He has done excellent work for
              people like us who engage in online business. (Edit: Let me say I think he was
              more active and an actual attorney. It has been a while since I even thought
              about this.)

              I believe a subject such as spinning eventually reduces to one's personal feelings
              which are, of course, based on a multitude of influencing factors.

              Good day to all of you.


              Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author Sam90
    I am still researching spinning software, but it seems like they are geared towards mass marketing quickly. If google finds hundreds or thousands of backlinks within a short period, does this raise a red flag?
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  • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
    Originally Posted by ScriptDesigner View Post

    i think not.
    Hi Scriptdesigner,

    Thanks for your comment.

    May I ask why you think not? As we're in a discussion it's always nice to hear, as others have, why they think something is or isn't.

    There are two different versions of spinning that's being discussed here, spinning ones own article or spinning someone else's and using it as your own.

    I'd be interested in what you thought.
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  • Profile picture of the author jushuaburnham
    I don't think so as long as your spun it well and not consider as duplicated article.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by jushuaburnham View Post

      I don't think so as long as your spun it well and not consider as duplicated article.
      Sure but as Paul Myers said, if spinning someone else's content is plagiarism, surely plagiarism is a touch bl*ckhat??
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Jordan
    It's not considered black hat unless if you pack long lists of keywords and put a poorly spun article and nothing else onto your site.
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  • Profile picture of the author aj113
    Back to the OP - is spinning considered as blacĸhаt?

    I think we need to define blacĸhаt first, and once it has been defined, there should be a discussion on the pros and cons. I mean, even if it IS blacĸhаt, so what? Who cares? What are the ramifications of doing something that is blacĸhаt? Is it just a case of taking the moral low ground, or are there other consequences?
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by aj113 View Post

      That would be interesting, but in the real world I think case history is more relevant.
      You think "case history" is more relevant than a practising internet lawyer telling you whether your own legal statements are right or wrong? Yes, having said some of what you've said above, I suppose you might ... :p

      Originally Posted by aj113 View Post

      even if it IS blacĸhаt, so what? Who cares?
      Not yourself, evidently. Some people do business online with the attitude that their own reputation is their business's most valuable and significant asset. Some, apparently, feel otherwise. :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author aj113
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        You think "case history" is more relevant than a practising internet lawyer telling you whether your own legal statements are right or wrong?
        I never heard of an 'internet lawyer' but if there is such a thing then yes, I do, and furthermore I wouild expect case history to be a major factor of the lawyer's advice.


        Not yourself, evidently..... :rolleyes:
        They were genuine questions, not rhetorical. Perhaps you'd like to put your soapbox away and attempt to answer them.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by aj113 View Post

          I never heard of an 'internet lawyer'
          You haven't?

          Wow ...

          It's the fairly standard term, in most English-speaking countries, for a lawyer who specialises in media law with specific reference to digital rights, technologies, litigation, regulations, and so on. There are many thousands (if not tens of thousands) of them, nowadays.

          Originally Posted by aj113 View Post

          They were genuine questions, not rhetorical.
          Much of what you said comprised statements, not questions. And some of those were, in my opinion, entirely mistaken, ill-informed and misguided.

          Originally Posted by aj113 View Post

          Perhaps you'd like to put your soapbox away and attempt to answer them.
          I wouldn't, in fact. I agree with several others here that some matters, and particularly the way they're raised, seem to provide very little incentive for any reasoned, sensitive, worthwhile discussion.
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  • Profile picture of the author hilaryaustin
    it would be considered a spam then the spam be considered a black hat.
    Personally I also try to rewrite articles and rewriting them manually can help me since I learn a lot and my vocabulary are also added and extended.
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  • Profile picture of the author KevinFranz
    Taking the intellectual property of another person and attempting to pass it off as your own is wrong. Period.

    Spin your own articles all you'd like. No problem. But if you take the work of another and simply change the order of a few words before slapping your name on it . . . black hat.
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    • Profile picture of the author aj113
      Originally Posted by KevinFranz View Post

      .... But if you take the work of another and simply change the order of a few words before slapping your name on it . . . black hat.
      What if you rewrite it?
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      • Profile picture of the author Cosmo Demopoulos
        Originally Posted by aj113 View Post

        What if you rewrite it?
        I'm not an Internet lawyer, although I have worked with them before and discuss intellectual property law in the classes I teach.

        I believe it would clearly be a "derivative work" - and hence a copyright violation.
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by Ted Demopoulos View Post

          I'm not an Internet lawyer, although I have worked with them before and discuss intellectual property law in the classes I teach.

          I believe it would clearly be a "derivative work" - and hence a copyright violation.

          So re-writing an article and spinning an article is derivative?

          Glad I don't go around spinning other people's articles or re-writing other people's articles then.
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        • Profile picture of the author aj113
          Originally Posted by Ted Demopoulos View Post

          ....I believe it would clearly be a "derivative work" - and hence a copyright violation.
          So to get back on topic, assuming hypothetically that rewriting articles is an infringement of copyright, does that mean the practice of rewriting and/or spinning articles is blacĸhаt?
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      • Profile picture of the author birdman87
        Rather than worrying about spinning other peoples content, as long as you aren't writing about anything super niche, just buy informational books on stuff. I find obscure informational and professionally writen books, sometimes on things I want to learn about, read the page and re-write it. Then you have super good quality content on your website, not a re-write of a re-write of an average quality article, and it takes me about 10/15 minutes.
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      • Profile picture of the author KevinFranz
        Originally Posted by aj113 View Post

        What if you rewrite it?
        That's not enough. If you want to get out of black hat territory, you have to ADD VALUE to the original work - not simply restate it. You need to insert your own thoughts and ideas.
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  • Profile picture of the author johnsmart
    Well personally I do not consider it as spamming or a Black hat because all it does is duplicate fresh variations from the originally content even if is of the same subject matter otherwise we would all be penalized by now.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Originally Posted by bliz88 View Post

    To me, nothing is black hat at all. If you think carefully, everyone is creating links to gain exposure somehow, if you are talking SEO of course. Spinning articles black hat? Yeah like someone said, if you spam it, its black hat, however you want to see is.

    I don't want to wrestle over the "article spinning" question. I have an opinion, but I don't have to share it here, for people to know what it is.

    However, I had to comment on what you said here.

    If "nothing is black hat", how can "spamming be black hat"?!?

    Either nothing IS black hat, or some things ARE black hat...

    Pick a side and stick to it, until reason causes you to change your mind...

    But don't try to play both sides of an argument... That only diminishes your credibility on all sides...
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    • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      I don't want to wrestle over the "article spinning" question. I have an opinion, but I don't have to share it here, for people to know what it is.

      However, I had to comment on what you said here.

      If "nothing is black hat", how can "spamming be black hat"?!?

      Either nothing IS black hat, or some things ARE black hat...

      Pick a side and stick to it, until reason causes you to change your mind...

      But don't try to play both sides of an argument... That only diminishes your credibility on all sides...
      Then how do lawyers keep jobs?

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  • Profile picture of the author aj113
    I have my own definition of 'blacĸhаt' if anyone would like to comment:

    "blacĸhаt" - Any internet-based action which contravenes a third party's terms of service for the sake of commercial gain.
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  • I think this is not Black Hat. I tried this with various keywords and got awesome improvement. However, I never tried same article to submit more than 30 article submission sites. I first make 3-4 version of each article and then submit it to 30 sites.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Brian,

      Thanks. That was my impression, too, but I wasn't anything like confident enough of it to suggest anything definitive.

      AJ,

      That's the generally accepted definition of 'blackhat,' when applied to SEO and the like. Common usage is different. Good idea to get an agreed upon definition for purposes of the discussion.

      Interestingly, if using a service means agreeing to their TOS, the law is definitely involved. Contracts. Posting something on another site doesn't involve agreeing to Google's TOS, though, which is a point a lot of people miss.

      I still think most of the spun stuff out there is garbage, and I consider spinning someone else's articles to be theft, but those are separate issues from the others.


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      • Profile picture of the author aj113
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        ..... Posting something on another site doesn't involve agreeing to Google's TOS, though, which is a point a lot of people miss....
        And which is also the point I was trying to get to. It seems tio be perfectly acceptable to use any number of backlink services and techniques in order to fool google in to thinking your site is popular when in fact it is not, and the only reason this is acceptable is because the 'gurus' proclaim it to be so.

        I suggest that in principle, the technique as blacĸhаt as any other.

        Or what about the people who say it is cool to get yourself a good reputation plus a level 2 account at Y!A and then to start dropping your link occasionally. That process is dressed up to be an acceptable method but in fact it is an advanced form of spamming.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Gram
          Originally Posted by aj113 View Post

          And which is also the point I was trying to get to. It seems tio be perfectly acceptable to use any number of backlink services and techniques in order to fool google in to thinking your site is popular when in fact it is not, and the only reason this is acceptable is because the 'gurus' proclaim it to be so.

          I suggest that in principle, the technique as blacĸhаt as any other.

          Or what about the people who say it is cool to get yourself a good reputation plus a level 2 account at Y!A and then to start dropping your link occasionally. That process is dressed up to be an acceptable method but in fact it is an advanced form of spamming.
          I don't have a Yahoo answers account but if someone does and they give valid answers it's certainly not any form of spam or black hat whatsoever.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Thanks Mr Kindsvater for coming here to clear the debate that was raging for a vast majority of this thread :rolleyes:

      Let's now spend our time deciding if illegal, is indeed BH.:rolleyes: Why isn't there a yawn icon?

      Has anyone seen that film "The never ending story"?
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
        Before I say anything, let me make it clear that I don't personally believe that screwing with Googles Index is black-hat...

        But, when it comes to article spinning, to me anyway, there is a "white hat" way to do it and a "black-hat" way to do it...

        Throwing your own articles into a spinner = White hat

        Taking someone elses content to do the same = Black-hat

        Using someone elses content in that way is no different than going into their house, stealing their lemonade...adding a little raspberry flavor to it so it's raspberry lemonade and then saying it's yours now
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        • Profile picture of the author DylanJames
          Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

          Before I say anything, let me make it clear that I don't personally believe that screwing with Googles Index is black-hat...

          But, when it comes to article spinning, to me anyway, there is a "white hat" way to do it and a "black-hat" way to do it...

          Throwing your own articles into a spinner = White hat

          Taking someone elses content to do the same = Black-hat
          It depends on how you define "spinning". Are you talking about using software or a service? Or sitting with a copy of someones article and changing a few words? Both of those techniques, I'd agree is not the right thing to do.

          But I think that a lot of people look at "spinning" differently.

          As long as you are not directly copying someone's work, you should be good.

          [/QUOTE]
          Using someone elses content in that way is no different than going into their house, stealing their lemonade...adding a little raspberry flavor to it so it's raspberry lemonade and then saying it's yours now [/QUOTE]

          Agreed if you are directly stealing their content. 3 weeks from now if I say "Stealing their ICE TEA....adding a little SUGAR to it and saying's it's yours" am I doing anything wrong?

          I say no. Some people would consider that "spinning".
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  • Profile picture of the author aj113
    The reason I asked about case history earlier is that I think it is the overriding factor. Has anyone ever been successfully prosecuted for spinning an article? If they haven't, I think if it was ever going to happen, it would have happened by now.
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    • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
      Originally Posted by aj113 View Post

      Has anyone ever been successfully prosecuted for spinning an article? If they haven't, I think if it was ever going to happen, it would have happened by now.
      One of the frustrating things on a forum is sometimes you don't know who you are dealing with. Their age, education, etc.

      And of course some people will never be convinced - even if a judge tells them they are wrong. Some just enjoy being argumentative.

      aj113, you have self-imposed a too narrow definition of "spinning" and are reaching to try and justify your position. There's apparently nothing me, or anyone else can tell you that you will accept.

      Doesn't matter what cases involving derivative works I refer to. A case could refer to your "spinning" software and you'd simply claim the person did not spin their article like you do. Or it was a different article. Or it was a bad judge. Or the moon was full.
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      • Profile picture of the author aj113
        Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

        .... A case could refer to your "spinning" software and you'd simply claim the person did not spin their article like you do. Or it was a different article. Or it was a bad judge. Or the moon was full.
        Strawman fallacious arguments from a lawyer? If you're going to lambast me you could at least do it for something I actually said!

        Now, I asked a straight question, has anyone ever been prosecuted for spinning an article? Does anyone have a straight answer? Or at least an answer that is not pure fabrication?
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Thanks again Kindsvater for clearing that up beautifully.

          Wraps that up nicely I think, always good to hear from a qualified Lawyer with so much experience in the matter.

          Nothing more to say here really.

          Really appreciate you having the time to come down here and set records, well and truly, straight.
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        • Profile picture of the author aj113
          Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          .....I suspect that AJ113 has set a new world record for demonstrating more ways one person could dance around an issue, without ever conceding any point to another person...
          Fallacious ad hominem arguments will get you nowhere and only serve to tarnish your own character and reputation. This is not only a personal attack, but an unsubstantiated one at that.

          Why don't you actually get involved in the debate and deal with some of the issues that have been raised instead of reducing the substance of your contributions to puerile baiting?

          Please show me where I have 'danced around an issue'.
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          • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
            Originally Posted by aj113 View Post

            Fallacious ad hominem arguments will get you nowhere and only serve to tarnish your own vcharacter and reputation. This is not only a personal attack, but an unsubstantiated one at that.

            Why don't you actually get involved in the debate and deal with some of the issues that have been raised instead of reducing the substance of your contributions to puerile baiting?

            Please show me where I have 'danced around an issue'.
            Bill (tpw) is teasing you

            What is going on with the dancing in your video BTW?
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  • Profile picture of the author LetsGoViral
    Nothing black hat about spinning articles in itself. What you do with the content - that's another question.
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  • Profile picture of the author Benjamin Ehinger
    It is more of grey hat. It is not exactly white hat, but not black either. Black hat to me and I would think to most are things that are very unethical. Grey hat pushes the boundaries a little, but is still ethical and legal.

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    • Profile picture of the author SEO Assistant
      I do not consider it Black Hat at all as you are adding to the conversation.

      Think about when a major new story breaks how similar the disseminated information is...
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    • Profile picture of the author aj113
      Originally Posted by Benjamin Ehinger View Post

      It is more of grey hat. It is not exactly white hat, but not black either. Black hat to me and I would think to most are things that are very unethical. Grey hat pushes the boundaries a little, but is still ethical and legal.

      Benjamin Ehinger
      Yep, agreed that they are the general ideals, but that is not a definitive description. One man's 'grey hat' is another man's 'black hat'.
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  • Profile picture of the author hotftuna
    Article spinning is just loading up the net with a bunch of crap.

    If you can't write a decent, original article, pay someone to do it for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author DylanJames
    I only "spin" my own articles. I never use anyone else's.

    I don't consider it "balck hat" or anything like that, I just write my articles in a very particular way.
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  • Profile picture of the author MrPolarZero
    I don't think so. It is not considered a black hat as long as you don't use it for spamming purposes. However, article spinning is a no-no for many article writers, because it lessens the reliability of the content.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
    The point I was trying to make is that it is probably more pathetic than black hat.
    Quoted for truth. Although I think that in some circumstances, Google could look at your site and decide that maybe it shouldn't send so much traffic to a repository of spun content (and I'm pretty sure it can tell.)
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      As has been pointed out by Mr Kindsvater, a well known, respected and acting Internet Lawyer, taking someone else's article and re-writing it or spinning it is considered derivative work. In other words plagiarism and a flagrant breach of copyright.

      Title 17 US Code Section 106, and section 101 defining "derivative work".
      Spinning or re-writing your own article is legal, as it's your intellectual property.

      Point is, if stealing someone else's article, spinning it and saying it's your own, is so blatantly illegal, can it be called bl*ckhat?

      Who knows, who even cares?

      I'm far more interested in whether a lawyers going to sue my a**e off, than trying to find a meaning to a word that clearly no-one here agree's on and no-one will ever agree on. :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan Even
    I don't think so, but it sure doesn't add any "quality" to the internet.
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  • Profile picture of the author sappacis13
    Thank you for all your comment guys!

    I really appreciate that especially contributing an idea that make sense.


    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    No. It's considered old hat.
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  • Profile picture of the author maryparker
    Spinning articles is now being considered as one type of black hat methods. Spunned articles won’t get you penalized but it will definitely degrade the quality of the article. Search engine algorithms have become more sophisticated to recognize similar keywords and phrases and give a score on its similarities.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce Smith
    Hi sappacis13,

    Just like what others have said, spinning an article is not a black hat strategy itself. As long as it gives quality content and it helps your readers. Once you've spun the articles, it could be spammy depending on how you distribute them.

    ~Bruce
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  • Profile picture of the author MarkSherris
    For taking other peoples content...

    I think it would depend on how you spun it, if you used The Best Spinner and changed the settings so that it replaced all the words and didn't include any originals then technically it's different isn't it?

    But you'd have a really sh*tty article and obviously it's not exactly moral lol
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    • Profile picture of the author Przemek Bloniarz
      Spinning is not a black hat if you are spinning your own content. If you use someone else content it can be considered this way, but I don't think that you would ever be punished by doing that.
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