Do you have to get "famous" to succeed in IM?

13 years ago

Interesting post. I posted about im "branding" yesterday. I'm not sure I would use the word fame but I would say that having a well know respected name is very important in whatever niche you are in. I don't think you have to use your own name either but simply have a consistent brand name or nickname that people trust.

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Colin Theriot

13 years ago

Originally Posted by freemen14

Interesting post. I posted about im "branding" yesterday. I'm not sure I would use the word fame but I would say that having a well know respected name is very important in whatever niche you are in. I don't think you have to use your own name either but simply have a consistent brand name or nickname that people trust.

Well, a reputation, to me, is something that only your customers will learn. Only negative reputations spread by word of mouth. At least, that's been my experience. You'll get recommended by happy customers, but only if they get asked. When you strive for fame, on the other hand, I think you reach outside of the circle of people who already know you. It's about being known by people who may not even be in your niche at all.

Reputation is fine, but I mean fame, specifically.

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John Alves

13 years ago

I don't think anyone strives to become "famous" online. No one can predict what is going to happen to them exactly. If someone decides to deliver a lot of value to the internet marketing community over time by creating new products and new software that helps people, then that person will eventually become well known. However, I don't think it's possible to become famous without delivering value. I think becoming famous online can be done if you know the right people. If Frank Kern decides to promote all of your products and they all work well, then there is a good chance that you will become a famous marketer online.

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Colin Theriot

13 years ago

Originally Posted by John Alves

I don't think anyone strives to become "famous" online.

Really? I do. I know a lot of people that do. I think there are more people who are trying to become famous online than there are people who are trying to start businesses. Did you mean in some specific way?

Originally Posted by John Alves

No one can predict what is going to happen to them exactly. If someone decides to deliver a lot of value to the internet marketing community over time by creating new products and new software that helps people, then that person will eventually become well known.

First, if you're striving for something, I think you can predict a result in the positive given a long enough timeline. Fame CAN happen eventually, but you don't HAVE to wait for it this way, do you?

Originally Posted by John Alves

However, I don't think it's possible to become famous without delivering value.

Then how do you explain Paris Hilton?

I'm only partially joking. I think fame is a whole separate quality that may or may not include quality or positive reputation as a facet.

Originally Posted by John Alves

I think becoming famous online can be done if you know the right people. If Frank Kern decides to promote all of your products and they all work well, then there is a good chance that you will become a famous marketer online.

Well that's not the ONLY way. It's certainly a shortcut. But no one was there to make Kern famous - he did it himself. So you don't NEED to be MADE famous anymore than someone trying to get into Hollywood NEEDS to be discovered. Some people do get "made" into celebrities, but a lot of others get there by pursuing it with hard work.

Just looking at your combination there is a formula for manufacturing fame, right? Pair knowing the RIGHT people with delivering MAXIMUM value - it's a start, anyway, wouldn't you say?

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Colin Theriot

13 years ago

Originally Posted by oneplusone

If you want to sell your business at some stage, then what?

Allen could sell the Warrior Forum, it's the Warrior Forum not the Allen Says Forum.

What would you do?

If Frank Kern decided to sell his business and remove himself from the equation, is there even a viable business left?

You can see the problem...

A lot of people say this, but I think they are too hung up on the fact that a brand, even if YOU are the brand, has nothing to do with you.

Do you think Martha Stewart or Oprah's companies would go out of business if they died?

How about the famous copywriting firm of Ogilvy and Mather? Both of those guys have been dead a LOOOOONG time, but they have an office walking distance from my house.

Billy Mays just died a year or so ago, but I still see commercials that star him on TV.

Now the kind of thing you're talking about MIGHT be a problem if you didn't address it at all, but I don't think it's a hindering problem. I think Kern could easily sell the rights to all of his content, and it would still sell just as well for someone else even IF they only used pre-existing material.

And best of all, Kern would still RETAIN his selling power via his personal fame. That DOESN'T get sold with the business (or lost should his one particular business close up).

Ask Donald Trump if his fame helped or hurt him when he lost it all and needed to start over. Ask him if he couldn't sell any part of his business, or if he thinks it will die when he dies.

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Bill Farnham 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Colin Theriot

A lot of people say this, but I think they are too hung up on the fact that a brand, even if YOU are the brand, has nothing to do with you.

Hi Colin,

Armand Morin years ago was stressing the point he was distancing himself as the 'brand' behind his 'Generator' products for the sake of future salebility.

He may have changed his stance on that to one degree or another, but back then he was happy to bring up the subject.

Best of luck with your webinar, I plan on listening in.

~Bill
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oneplusone

13 years ago

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Bill Farnham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by oneplusone

The tone of your posts suggests you don't have an open mind on this issue, and instead are looking for people to validate your belief, pat you on the back and agree with you rather than have a constructive discussion ...

I think one of the reasons why you guys are at odds on this one could be the circles you hang in. Not to say that your circle is any better or worse than the one Colin hangs in but as a top copywriter for some of the major gurus Colin may have experienced a side of this internet marketing fame phenom that you haven't.

That's just an assumption on my part and is in no way judgemental. Your circle may run rings around his for all I know.

~Bill

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oneplusone

13 years ago

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marcuslim 13 years ago

Obviously having a reputation makes it easier to sell. However, if you don't have the reputation when you first start out, you can 'borrow' social proof from other better known marketers by doing interviews with them and selling the interviews as your product.
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- oneplusone 13 years ago
  
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  JohnMcCabe 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Bill Farnham
  
  And a good job it's doing on your behalf...
  
  Billy is one of my best under the radar sales reps (or should that be 'under the sonar')...
  
  You don't want to know what kind of subliminal messages Billy puts out!
  
  :p:p
  
  Thanks
  
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JohnMcCabe 13 years ago

I'm not sure "I" have to get famous to succeed, but in the context of your original post, "something" has to be famous.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Jay Abraham used the phrase "star shops" when referring to businesses which would vanish if the star went away.

You mentioned Martha Stewart and Oprah. I would venture that their carefully-crafted personae are far more famous and long-lived than either individual herself.

Both women have built up assets and organizations that can follow the directions set by the namesake. Martha did her famous timeout at the graybar hotel, but Martha Stewart Omnimedia, Inc. just kept chugging along. Oprah remarked in an interview that she bought a little place in Hawaii. According to someone I know there, her 'little place' is about ten square miles on Kauai.

Yet, if you would believe the tell-alls, Martha the uber-homemaker who is all smiles and decorum in front of the camera can be hell-on-wheels when the little red light goes out. Same thing goes for Oprah.

Flip to the other side of the coin, and look at one of Warren Buffet's babies, Geico. Buffet himself is nowhere to be found. Rather, he relies on a cartoon lizard and a sissy caveman to front the company.

My take is to create a persona that can outlive you. If you sell out, the persona goes with the company. I choose to build in more of the Buffet model, with crafted personae doing the front work.
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- Bill Farnham 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe
  
  I choose to build in more of the Buffet model, with crafted personae doing the front work.
  
  And a good job it's doing on your behalf...
  
  Thanks
  
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Kieran G. McDonogh

13 years ago

Crikey, what an interesting thread that just went a smidgen viral in the space of a few hours since Colin posted it aye. The topic you chose Colin is obviously one that Warriors here really appreciate from all angles, so props to you for raising it!!

Originally Posted by oneplusone

I probably was a bit harsh, but my point is still correct that most of these "debates" are nothing more than people trying to validate their beliefs.

On this very forum it goes on all the time on controversial threads, what purpose does it serve?

Actually I think what Colin has done by starting this thread is very smart - it's called market research for his webinar that he will be presenting on later (topic: "Manufacturing Micro-Celebrity"). By starting a discussion here, it gives him an insight into his prospective audience so he can deliver his best training and learn by delving inside the minds of his audience.

So in fact, the purpose this thread serves is smart intel for his presentation, ensuring he's on track to deliver what the audience needs.

I got my front row seat to learn from a master!

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Colin Theriot

13 years ago

Originally Posted by 2010sahmoa

I, myself would "love" to be famous online and offline..But then i'm more likely be targeted for harassment and rumors that all the "celebrities" get.

Do you think having other people talking about you is good or bad, regardless of what they might be saying?

Originally Posted by Bill Farnham

Best of luck with your webinar, I plan on listening in.

Thanks Bill!

Originally Posted by AFI

HA! No, not at all. I don't follow any "gurus". Do your own thing.

That wasn't the question, afaik.

Originally Posted by ReportKing

Absolutely not! I'm a nobody and I am averaging about $150 - $200 per day from my business between Clickbank and a one time offer that I have set up when people opt-in to my list. Granted, it's not a fortune, but's it's more than I made when I had a 9-5.

I think the only thing you need is a list and a lot of targeted traffic to be successful in IM. Of course, fame can't hurt.

So you have a list - who do those emails come "from"?

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

No.

/thread

Jay

Thanks for answering only the title of the thread.

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

I feel it is in large part about being memorable, and that can be the result of something quirky.

I think that's a part of it, but you have to do some work in order to cultivate that becoming something like fame or celebrity.

Originally Posted by oneplusone

Sure, there are some benefits, but you're being purposefully "selective" to try and validate your belief.

How am I the one being selective - I was discussing YOUR points.

Originally Posted by oneplusone

I and many other warriors could give you a whole list of negatives, but the entire debate becomes a worthless argument as everyone is just trying to validate what they already believe.

I'm not trying to validate anything. I'm trying to have a discussion. The way the works is we go back and forth, point counter-point. You gave a negative, and I talked about how there are exceptions and even examples of being famous SEPARATE from your business and having that be a benefit, too. I wasn't even arguing with you.

Originally Posted by oneplusone

Which is why I don't usually waste my time getting involved in these types of debates, everyone is trying to validate their belief as opposed to having an open mind.

Are you describing yourself, here? You're the one who presented one negative and is now insisting I have a closed mind just because I opened it for discussion instead of agreeing with you. Geez, buddy. I don't know who pissed in your Cheerios this morning but it sure wasn't me.

Originally Posted by oneplusone

The tone of your posts suggests you don't have an open mind on this issue, and instead are looking for people to validate your belief, pat you on the back and agree with you rather than have a constructive discussion ... and for that reason I'll give your webinar a miss.

I wanted to discuss your points, but you clearly don't want to. Which is fine, you could have just not replied again if this is such a waste of your time. But clearly, it's not so much a waste that you can't take a moment TO LET US ALL KNOW - "HEY GUYS, THIS IS A WASTE OF MY TIME!!! THIS THING YOU ARE READING AND I AM TYPING IS A WASTE!!!"

The tone of your posts suggests you're kind of a pompous ass. For that reason, I'm glad you won't be on my webinar.

Originally Posted by oneplusone

But good luck with your webinar anyway

Thanks, jerk.

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oneplusone 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Colin Theriot

Thanks, jerk.

I've just read your reply (I missed it for some reason), this is the first time I've been called a jerk by anyone

If you knew me personally you wouldn't think that, I'm actually quite a nice guy.

I'd be happy to chat to you by PM, e-mail or on Skype if you want a proper, friendly discussion about marketing
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CDarklock

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Colin Theriot

So what do you think? Is fame necessary? Is it desirable? Is it difficult? Is it worth it?

Paging Steven Wagenheim...

Nobody outside of our own little family has the slightest clue who Steven Wagenheim is, but you certainly can't say he isn't successful.

Originally Posted by John Alves

I don't think anyone strives to become "famous" online.

Um... yes, many of us do. I've been very straightforward and up-front from day one about wanting to be a household name in this industry. I may not be entirely in control of what people think about that name, but I'm definitely working very hard to get my name out there and be recognised.

Of course, at the moment, I'm most recognised for being rude to my customers, outrageously inappropriate in live chat, and drinking too much. But there's no such thing as bad publicity.

And besides, I wear a tie. I can't be unprofessional; I'm wearing a tie. Nobody wears a tie if they don't have to. That would just be weird.

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John Alves

13 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Paging Steven Wagenheim...

Um... yes, many of us do. I've been very straightforward and up-front from day one about wanting to be a household name in this industry. I may not be entirely in control of what people think about that name, but I'm definitely working very hard to get my name out there and be recognised.

Why are you doing this? Are you trying to make more money by being well known? It doesn't matter whether I'm famous or not in this industry. What matters to me is whether or not I'm succeeding financially in it. Success doesn't require being famous. In fact, I would always choose being financially stable for the rest of my life over being famous. Being famous is not always a good thing.

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CDarklock

13 years ago

Originally Posted by John Alves

Why are you doing this?

Because I am a complete attention whore.

Money and success have nothing to do with it. I want to be famous because I have always wanted to be famous.

I wanted it when I thought "rich and famous" always went together, and I still want it now that I know you can be either of those things without the other.

And if I had to pick one, I'd pick famous. Because I can get by just fine on a reasonably small amount of money, but not on a similarly small amount of attention.

As far as whether it will make me more money, rather the opposite. Money defines your value as a human being in American popular culture. So if I want to stay famous, I have to make a certain amount of money. It's not a perquisite, but a prerequisite.

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Bill Farnham 13 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Because I am a complete attention whore.

Yup, CD, you are definitely giving Bill Platt a run for his money...

~Bill
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TrekkieGrrrl 13 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Because I am a complete attention whore.

I nearly choked on my coffee reading this. Then I LMAO.

Ya gotta love honesty.... :p
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JonWebContent

13 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Because I am a complete attention whore.

Money and success have nothing to do with it. I want to be famous because I have always wanted to be famous.

I wanted it when I thought "rich and famous" always went together, and I still want it now that I know you can be either of those things without the other.

And if I had to pick one, I'd pick famous. Because I can get by just fine on a reasonably small amount of money, but not on a similarly small amount of attention.

As far as whether it will make me more money, rather the opposite. Money defines your value as a human being in American popular culture. So if I want to stay famous, I have to make a certain amount of money. It's not a perquisite, but a prerequisite.

We would get along well. Call me after I'm done shooting my next Wrangler Jeans commercial.

Sincerely,
Brett Favre

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Martin Luxton

13 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Of course, at the moment, I'm most recognised for being rude to my customers, outrageously inappropriate in live chat, and drinking too much. But there's no such thing as bad publicity.

Same thing again for me. I remember you for your unusual name.

Plus your 'say cheese' photo.

And that exchange of PM's where you mentioned your encounter with Squeaky Fromme.

Martin

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2010sahmoa

13 years ago

I, myself would "love" to be famous online and offline..But then i'm more likely be targeted for harassment and rumors that all the "celebrities" get.

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AFI

13 years ago

HA! No, not at all. I don't follow any "gurus". Do your own thing.

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Istvan Horvath 13 years ago

Originally Posted by AFI

HA! No, not at all. I don't follow any "gurus". Do your own thing.

Do you think following a guru and becoming famous are the same...? Just wondering. Or you didn't really read the OP
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Martin Luxton 13 years ago

Colin,

I feel it is in large part about being memorable, and that can be the result of something quirky.

You stick out a bit in my mind because I remember a controversial thread you caused a bit of a stir in and I thought of you as Colin "The Riot".

And then, your location of Roswell.

So, your content got me interested, but those two names gave me a 'memory peg' to hang you onto.

Martin
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roley

13 years ago

No

You just have to FAKE some earnings and put out a $97 ebook ROFL

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JayXtreme

13 years ago

No.

/thread

Jay

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