I must be doing something wrong trying to find good niches...cause I can't find any!

13 years ago

These appear to be probably not so much niches so much as they are micro niches. They are getting harder to find and I would imagine that your criteria are weeding out a lot of potential candidates.

Perhaps you might consider a broader site, with some of the lesser search volume product keywords together on a site.

That is just a suggestion at something else you could do, you might already be doing that, I don't know.

Thanks
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Rod Cortez

13 years ago

My criteria are as follows...

* No PR over 3 in any of the top 4 positions (the one's with no PR don't count into this top 4)
* Exact match in Google's Adwords Tool.
* Must have at least 1000 Global Monthly Searches and preferably also Local Searches
* Must be a buying keyword as in something that someone is searching to buy not get info on.

I take it you're looking for a niche that's going to make you money. Having been involved in a wide variety of niches for well over a decade, I don't look at any of those things.

I look at the following (a.k.a. my criteria):

1. Are people making money in that niche?

2. Does the niche have healthy competition?

3. Does the niche have a nice product and/or service mix?

4. Does the niche have repeat, emotional buyers?

5. Does the niche have more than one profitable distribution channel?

I don't even begin my keyword research until I can answer those five questions in the affirmative. So in a nutshell, find a niche where people are making money and then find a way to provide a solution and value to people who are looking for it.

People over complicate the niche-finding phase. I used to have a large PDF document full of hundreds of different niche-finding resources (can anyone say Amazon.com, Magazines.com, etc.) and niche-finding research techniques when during a coaching call the marketer told me to write down the KEY steps that I took to finding a good niche.

Ever since then I've kept it really simple and I no longer need all those resources.

RoD

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Ernie Lo

13 years ago

Your over complicating everything. Forget PR and forget about getting 1st spot.

Water heaters is a fine niche and I see there are over 800 key phrases for water heaters look here Google

Stop trying to rank for ONE gold keyword

Most of my pages target keywords that get only 100-300 monthly searches. I'm doing great. I don't worry about rankings, backlinks or anything. All I do is write content and submit to EZA.

Look at the bigger picture and start thinking longtail traffic.

[ 6 ] Thanks
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carlos123

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo

Your over complicating everything. Forget PR and forget about getting 1st spot....Most of my pages target keywords that get only 100-300 monthly searches. I'm doing great. I don't worry about rankings, backlinks or anything. All I do is write content and submit to EZA.

Interesting approach you have there Ernie.

- forget PR
- target keywords that get only 100-300 monthly searches
- don't be concerned with ranking
- don't bother with backlinks

Hmm...kinda goes against the grain of just about everything I have read even here, never mind elsewhere but hey...if you are truly doing great maybe there is something to what you say.

Maybe I will lower my searches per month from 1000. I think the PR is still a useful criteria though with respect to comparing one site to another and it's competitive advantage. Google doesn't rank pages based on PR mind you but trying to beat a PR 7 or 10 is going to be WAY tougher than trying to beat a 1 or 2.

I also do want to get into the top 5 at least or that amount of traffic coming to me in the left overs (down at position 6 through 10 on the first page of results) will be so miniscule as to make it hardly worth bothering with.

I saw a stats one time that showed the breakdown of how much traffic clicks through the various ranking positions and past the 3rd one it shot way down. Past the fifth one (if I remember correctly) it took a nasty nosedive and went straight into the ground around the tenth ranking position.

Carlos

Thanks
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JohnMcCabe

13 years ago

Originally Posted by carlos123

I saw a stats one time that showed the breakdown of how much traffic clicks through the various ranking positions and past the 3rd one it shot way down. Past the fifth one (if I remember correctly) it took a nasty nosedive and went straight into the ground around the tenth ranking position.

Carlos

Various people, most of whom sell some type of SEO product or service, have been touting that stat for several years now.

The study that led to the breakdown covered millions of searches with no effort made to differentiate the intent of the search.

Here's an example:

Case 1: I was looking for the lyrics to a song used as background in a TV show, as I couldn't remember the band that recorded the song. I put the snip of lyric into the search field. The top site listed the name of the song in the title, and the description hinted at the recording history, so I clicked it. They had the info I wanted, so that search was over.

Case 2: I was looking for very specific information on a product I already owned, although it could have easily been for something I was about to buy. The top search results were a combination of price comparison sites, phony review pages, some that were just badly titled and described (company name as site/page title, navbar titles for description). I went three pages deep looking for the info I wanted, and ended up buying a user manual.

In the stat study, those two searches would be viewed the same way, even though the intent behind them was very different.

Remember, your SE listing is meant to entice people to click through. Page one is nice, as you 'only' have to beat out the other organic listings, the ads, the related searches, etc. With long-tail search terms, this is much easier usually, because the big boys are not optimizing for such terms.

As for PR, there are actually two PR ratings. The one used in the ranking algorithm covers a much wider range than the simple 0-10 shown on the Google toolbar. Some experts contend that the toolbar PR is actually exponential, so that a site with a high-3 and one with a low-4 could be nearly identical in ranking power. PR is also shifting much more often than the toolbar is updated. That PR5 site that scared you off could be a PR0 today and you wouldn't know it until the next toolbar update. Similarly, the PR1 site you take lightly could be a PR4 now and you wouldn't know it.

Even if toolbar PR was more useful, there's one more thing to consider...

Unless you're trying to beat the site's home page, you don't have to beat the home page's PR, just the PR of the page you are trying to beat.

For example, you're trying to beat out an article on EZA. The toolbar says EZA has a PR6. You shrug and move on. If you check the PR of the page with the article, you find a lot of PR0 pages.

Thanks
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carlos123

13 years ago

Thanks so much for your input John.

If I may comment on some of what you said...

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Various people, most of whom sell some type of SEO product or service, have been touting that stat for several years now.

The study that led to the breakdown covered millions of searches with no effort made to differentiate the intent of the search.

True enough John but that means that the numbers that click through the search results to actually land on one's site and that are targeted and worthwhile visitors are even LESS than the overall numbers would indicate.

In other words let's say the numbers say only 40% will click through in position 1 (ranking at Google). So out of a 1000 searchers per month only 400 will actually click through the search results to our site in position 1.

But since those numbers do not take into account the intent of the searchers and since some of those searchers are not good for our purposes then the effective numbers that are good for potential buyers is even less.

My point is that such stats still have value in that they do give us some idea of what kind of traffic we might be able to expect from the various ranking positions.

Remember, your SE listing is meant to entice people to click through. Page one is nice, as you 'only' have to beat out the other organic listings, the ads, the related searches, etc. With long-tail search terms, this is much easier usually, because the big boys are not optimizing for such terms.

True enough John and for sure I want to focus on the long tail keywords. The problem I am having is finding some that are not only long tail in the sense of that word but also potentially profitable and worth my time to build a site around.

But as someone else said on this thread...maybe I just need to build sites and do a little less up front keyword analysis. I am somewhat build the site approach leery since a while back I did just that, building 7 sites, and I didn't make a penny from any of them (they were monetized with Adsense and were good sites as far as Adsense goes...I did the right things but no money).

That PR5 site that scared you off could be a PR0 today and you wouldn't know it until the next toolbar update. Similarly, the PR1 site you take lightly could be a PR4 now and you wouldn't know it.

For sure John. I've been aware for some time of the lag between the actual PR and that which is reported by Google at any point in time through the Toolbar.

But regardless I think the PR of today is still a good gauge of comparison between two different sites. In other words it is very unlikely I think for a PR 5 to go down to a PR 1 or even 0 after the next PR update. They may go down some or even up but the change will probably not be all that radical.

So a PR 5 site will remain a much more competitive site to beat than a PR 0 or 1 or even 2 for example.

Unless you're trying to beat the site's home page, you don't have to beat the home page's PR, just the PR of the page you are trying to beat.

Right on again John. The PR of the pages that are scaring me off are the actual page PR's and not the home page PR's of the sites in question.

I don't actually use the Google Toolbar at all. I get my PR's from the Firefox SEO plugin which shows me the PR's of the pages that actually show up in the search results.

Thanks again for your input John. Much appreciated.

Carlos

Thanks

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carlos123 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo

Water heaters is a fine niche and I see there are over 800 key phrases for water heaters look here Google

That's a nifty tool at that link Ernie. Never used that one before. Thanks for the tip!

Carlos
- Thanks
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- Ernie Lo 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by carlos123
  
  That's a nifty tool at that link Ernie. Never used that one before. Thanks for the tip!
  
  Carlos
  
  Your welcome Carlos.
  
  The thing about Internet Marketing is everyone has a different way of doing things. Many people will disagree with my advice yet all I can tell you is my own experience and the strategy is working amazingly well for me.
  
  I spent years stuck looking for the perfect niche (one that had lots of searches but low competition) and was lost as a puppy.
  
  I then came across longtail traffic and have never looked back.
  
  The overall point is there are so many good niches out there. I have a list of about 15 I need to get through still
  
  Thanks
  
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NateRivers

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo

Your over complicating everything. Forget PR and forget about getting 1st spot.

Water heaters is a fine niche and I see there are over 800 key phrases for water heaters look here Google

Stop trying to rank for ONE gold keyword

Most of my pages target keywords that get only 100-300 monthly searches. I'm doing great. I don't worry about rankings, backlinks or anything. All I do is write content and submit to EZA.

Look at the bigger picture and start thinking longtail traffic.

Mate,

Don't tell people this secret! Now it's out I guess.

Thanks
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Ernie Lo 13 years ago

Originally Posted by NateRivers

Mate,

Don't tell people this secret! Now it's out I guess.

Oops! *quickly rushes to create WSO*
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Craig McPherson 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo

Look at the bigger picture and start thinking longtail traffic.

Bingo my Aussie friend.

I would rather get 10 visitors a day from 40 long tail keywords than bust my bum trying to get to #1 with a "you beaut" keyword.

Grab the low hanging stuff. There's a shipload of it around.
Write a 1,000 word article with LSI keywords and watch visitors coming for totally unheard of terms.

For example, I am too busy to pursue it, but put "ceramic hair irons" thru MS.

Cheers mate

Craig
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carlos123

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo

Most of my pages target keywords that get only 100-300 monthly searches. I'm doing great. I don't worry about rankings, backlinks or anything. All I do is write content and submit to EZA.

Look at the bigger picture and start thinking longtail traffic.

How do you make any money from targeting keywords that only get 100 searches per month Ernie? Care to elaborate on that?

I just don't see how it's worth targeting such low traffic keywords. I mean I don't doubt what you say...I just don't understand the how of it.

Please don't feel like you have to share more Ernie but if you wouldn't mind passing along some of what you have learned in your experience in this regard that would be great.

Carlos

Thanks
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mrmanpower

13 years ago

Originally Posted by carlos123

How do you make any money from targeting keywords that only get 100 searches per month Ernie? Care to elaborate on that?

I just don't see how it's worth targeting such low traffic keywords. I mean I don't doubt what you say...I just don't understand the how of it.

Please don't feel like you have to share more Ernie but if you wouldn't mind passing along some of what you have learned in your experience in this regard that would be great.

Carlos

To explain this what Ernie is saying is get around 30 of these keywords
and then now you have 3000 searches. multiply that to around 30 niches. then you have 90k searches and keep in mind these types of searches are different.

Way more specific. So it will actually work out better for your ads, or affiliate products.

Thanks

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Ernie Lo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by carlos123

How do you make any money from targeting keywords that only get 100 searches per month Ernie? Care to elaborate on that?

I just don't see how it's worth targeting such low traffic keywords. I mean I don't doubt what you say...I just don't understand the how of it.

Carlos put it this way. Each of my sites have or are going to have 100 pages each, with each page targeting one longtail keyword/uncompetitive keyword/keyphrase

Yes it's a lot of work, so thats why I recommend outsourcing after you have written some yourself to see if it works for you.

Now lets say that each of them gets 200 searches a month.

You are really targeting 20,000 searches which are lazer targeted buying key phrases with minimal competition.

Thanks
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carlos123

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo

...Each of my sites have or are going to have 100 pages each, with each page targeting one longtail keyword/uncompetitive keyword/keyphrase

That makes more sense Ernie. I had in mind you creating a whole web site around the very low hanging keyword of only 100 searches per month which made absolutely no sense at all to me.

So I guess the trick to your approach is to find keyword clusters. Clusters of long tails that can be turned into 100 page web sites.

Hmm...I'll have to look into that.

Not a bad idea.

Carlos

Thanks
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Ernie Lo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by carlos123

That makes more sense Ernie. I had in mind you creating a whole web site around the very low hanging keyword of only 100 searches per month which made absolutely no sense at all to me.

So I guess the trick to your approach is to find keyword clusters. Clusters of long tails that can be turned into 100 page web sites.

Hmm...I'll have to look into that.

Not a bad idea.

Carlos

I basically create one site around something which has lots of subniches within in.

For example site might be called buyshoes.com

Then Ill have an article page on "kids shoes" and "maybe "small kids shoes" if its popular enough. If "small kids shoes" is not worth making a whole new article about I'll just include the words in the "kids shoes" artcle......and then you can do another on "running shoes" "large basketball shoes" "waterproof shoes" "gardening shoes" etc.

Thanks
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carlos123 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo

I basically create one site around something which has lots of subniches within in.

I guess part of my "problem" is that I have been so focused on getting the keyword being targeted in the domain (which necessitates creating a site around each keyword phrase).

With your approach you basically give up that SEO advantage in favor of creating a site that will hopefully rank for lots of keywords even if none of them are neccessarily found in the domain name.

Carlos
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carlos123

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo

For example site might be called buyshoes.com

Then Ill have an article page on "kids shoes" and "maybe "small kids shoes" if its popular enough. If "small kids shoes" is not worth making a whole new article about I'll just include the words in the "kids shoes" artcle......and then you can do another on "running shoes" "large basketball shoes" "waterproof shoes" "gardening shoes" etc.

If could ask you a couple of other questions Ernie and again please feel free to ignore it if you don't want to share more but you do seem to know what you are doing.

Would you then monetize this hypothetical site's pages using Amazon Affiliate links, Adsense, or otherwise?

I mean how would you monetize such a site? What is your favorite way of monetizing such pages and why?

Carlos

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BruceWood

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo

...lets say that each of them gets 200 searches a month.

You are really targeting 20,000 searches which are lazer targeted buying key phrases with minimal competition.

Ernie- I've heard of this strategy for building lead capture sites, but never thought of it for a monetized sales site. It's a lot of work, yes, but makes great sense. Thanks for the tips!

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carlos123 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo

Water heaters is a fine niche and I see there are over 800 key phrases for water heaters look here Google

Interestingly I found out that the above Search Based Keyword Tool's days are numbered in that Google is discontinuing it at some point soon.

That's unfortunate because there is nowhere else among Google's Tools, that I know of, where one can get so many keyword suggestions for free based on real searches.

The Adwords Keyword Tool returns a fraction of those 800.

I guess I better make lots of use of the above tool before it goes bye, bye.

Carlos

UPDATE: I signed up for Google Adwords and apparently the 800 keyword ideas related to water heaters for example are now incorporated into the Keyword Tool when logged in to your Adwords Account. The public Keyword Tool accessible while not logged in to your Adwords account only shows 50. So...I guess I will sign in to my Adwords account in the future to do keyword research. A bit of a pain but at least the full list of keyword suggestions will continue to be available as such.
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indiatext

13 years ago

Today, talking of the present scenario its really difficult to find one fine niche...just boost your efforts to the next level and you will surely find something useful...

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Gary Pettit

13 years ago

Yep....article marketing with long tail low competition keywords would be a good way to go for consistent traffic. Submit to about 5 of the top article directories and you should start seeing some results

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alycemackie

13 years ago

There are actually lots of ways on how to find your niche in the internet. You can search on clickbanks, amazon and many more. Try to search also in the internet for more details.

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pappyy3

13 years ago

Originally Posted by carlos123

I have spent all day doing keyword research trying to find good niches and I can't seem to find any. Here are some examples...

electric tankless water heater
- high PR in top spots
heat pump water heater
- high PR in top spots
on demand water heater
- high PR in top spots
grass seed san diego
- PR of top 4: 3,-,-,0,4,2
- no discernable searches for Global or Local in Google Keyword Tool
external hard drive case
- PR 5's in top two positions.
external hard drive enclosure
- PR 5's in top two positions.
buy hard drive online
- PR 6's in top two positions.
ice cream machine
- PR 5 and 4 in top two.

There are lots of others but the results are pretty much the same. There are so many internet marketers scouring the net for good keywords that it seems like there are very, very few good one's left.

Everybody and their next door neighbor is trying to make a buck and desperately trying to find some good keywords.

My criteria are as follows...

* No PR over 3 in any of the top 4 positions (the one's with no PR don't count into this top 4)
* Exact match in Google's Adwords Tool.
* Must have at least 1000 Global Monthly Searches and preferably also Local Searches
* Must be a buying keyword as in something that someone is searching to buy not get info on.

Even with this very basic criteria I just can't find any (at least today).

My aim is to build niche web sites that I can monetize through the Amazon affiliate program. These would be product related niches rather than informational niches that might be better suited for Adsense (I tried that once and built 7 sites once and didn't make a penny...well ranked for most of them too).

I know that using PR this way may be frowned upon here but I have to have a way to quickly weed out those that will be tougher to rank for when compared to others. The PR seems to be a key criteria to allow me to do this based on what I have read elsewhere. PR as in the authority of a site.

I've used Google's Product Search, hot deals in Amazon, I've followed and drilled down with Google suggestions, looked on industry sites, etc. for ideas on keywords to look at. Even gone back and looked for ideas on old magazines from the 1920's for keywords to potentially target.

Nothing so far.

This is without a doubt the most discouraging aspect of Internet Marketing for me. Thanks.

Carlos

From your post, I'd say you're almost at the point of finding your niche. Your doing nothing wrong, you just need to drill your research down a little further for find the lass competitive keyword phrases.

For example:

There were 588,000 broad match results for the term - electric tankless water heater

BUT, when you drill down further (to something like a product name or model number)

There were 30,899 results for Lowe electric tankless water heater, A lot less competition don't you think??

All you need then is to determine how competitive the Lowe electric tankless water heater market is ...

I'm sure if you do this for a number of products in the electric tankless water heater niche, you'll come up with a decent number of products to build a site with.

This is not a total solution, but hopefully addresses you question about finding / targeting a niche.

Hope this helps

Thanks
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carlos123

13 years ago

Howdy Pappy3,

Thanks for your encouragement.

Originally Posted by pappyy3

There were 30,899 results for Lowe electric tankless water heater, A lot less competition don't you think??

All you need then is to determine how competitive the Lowe electric tankless water heater market is ...

Yes but the problem I see with that Pappyy3 is that I can't quite use the term "Lowe" in a domain lest I infringe on their trademark.

I know that I am likely to get away with it if I use "Lowe...something...review" perhaps or "LowesSucks" or something similar and maybe I should use that in some way but catered toward electric tankless water heaters but I tend to stay away from trademarks if I can.

I am trying to find niches that don't involve using tradfemarked names in the domain name.

Long term I think that's a better approach.

I could be wrong but that how it seems to me at this point.

Carlos

Thanks
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Ben Armstrong

13 years ago

Originally Posted by carlos123

Howdy Pappy3,

Thanks for your encouragement.

Yes but the problem I see with that Pappyy3 is that I can't quite use the term "Lowe" in a domain lest I infringe on their trademark.

I know that I am likely to get away with it if I use "Lowe...something...review" perhaps or "LowesSucks" or something similar and maybe I should use that in some way but catered toward electric tankless water heaters but I tend to stay away from trademarks if I can.

I am trying to find niches that don't involve using tradfemarked names in the domain name.

Long term I think that's a better approach.

I could be wrong but that how it seems to me at this point.

Carlos

The trademark name was probably a bad example but the principle still applies. You can find good buying keywords with lower competition if you use a little imagination, keep drilling down and use a variety of tools/methods.

As an example the keyword "ice cream machine" may be too competitive but "stainless steel ice cream machine" is still a buying keyword (arguably a better one) and may have a lot less competition.

You're simply not going to find an easy niche with such broad terms. You really have to drill down a bit.

Thanks

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tish_lynn02

13 years ago

Originally Posted by pappyy3

From your post, I'd say you're almost at the point of finding your niche. Your doing nothing wrong, you just need to drill your research down a little further for find the lass competitive keyword phrases.

For example:

There were 588,000 broad match results for the term - electric tankless water heater

BUT, when you drill down further (to something like a product name or model number)

There were 30,899 results for Lowe electric tankless water heater, A lot less competition don't you think??

All you need then is to determine how competitive the Lowe electric tankless water heater market is ...

I'm sure if you do this for a number of products in the electric tankless water heater niche, you'll come up with a decent number of products to build a site with.

This is not a total solution, but hopefully addresses you question about finding / targeting a niche.

Hope this helps

Isn't it hard to rank for keywords like this when the first page of google consists of large companies selling this product?

Thanks
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carlos123 13 years ago

Originally Posted by tish_lynn02

Isn't it hard to rank for keywords like this when the first page of google consists of large companies selling this product?

From what I understand Tish that's not neccessarily so.

What I mean is this...

Say an Amazon page with a product shows up in position 1 in Google. That page might have a PR of only 1 or 2 and has gotten there mostly as a result of Amazon's reputation and much higher PR based on their home page and the incoming links to Amazon altogether.

But if you register an exact keyword domain around the keyword phrase in question and build incoming links with anchor text that are in line with that phrase respecting the subject matter there is a good chance that your page may outrank the page showing up that belongs to Amazon.

At least that is the accepted wisdom here.

In practice my experience has been that this is not quite as easy as it would seem. But also not as tough as it might seem either.

Google seems to take into account the age of the domain (not just the page in question), the types of incoming links to the domain, and other factors all of whom in combination are near impossible to guess or reverse engineer.

But I would say in general that it is still possible to beat a product page even if the page is from a place like Amazon.

Wikipedia pages are much tougher to beat on the other hand I think for example so what I said about beating an inner page from a product company like Amazon does not neccessarily apply as readily to beating an inner page from respected sites like Wikipedia and government sites which are considered authoritative by Google.

Carlos
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bareket57

13 years ago

As I have stated on several occasions - the best niche is something you are passionate about and in which you can build yourself a reputation as an expert. Customers want to feel they can trust the person they are dealing with and rely on his expertise.

Thanks
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Marx Vergel Melencio 13 years ago

Hi Carlos...

I'm sure you know you're in the business industry. You have a business.
This means you need to do business industry, trade news and socio
economic research...

Be resourceful. I analyzed current business trade news and industry
research data provided by prominent global media
resources. This report of mine points out that:

1. Tourism and travel will have a 72% net valuation increase this year and
2 years beyond.
2. Number 1 above is primarily due to the internationalization of the
business industry because of ICT (Information and Communications
Technology) and healthcare improvements in developing countries.

3. The 2nd reason for numbers 1 and 2 includes the baby boomers/seniors.
4. Numbers 1, 2 and 3 point out that health care, particularly health care
employment and business opportunities for both service providers and
product manufacturers, will be big, especially senior-slanted products, like
accessibility tools.

5. The construction industry will also have a net valuation increase this year. The boomers/seniors and their families will redesign their homes for
optimal accessibility.
6. Businesses will hire more people above the age of 50.

7. 90% of 50ish year olds will decide to stay working 9 to 11 more years.
8. Number 7 will cause business owners to redevelop their offices and
equipment for optimal accessibility.

9. Numbers 2 and others above point out that green power, not because
of the environment, but rather the cost cutting benefit it can provide
business owners, will be profitable.

So, we have:

1. Tourism and Travel
2. Business -- included sub niches: equipment for corporate offices and
home offices

3. Technology
4. Outsourcing
5. Senior Market

6. Home Improvement
7. Do It Yourself
8. Health and Wellness Services/Products
9. Healthcare Jobs/Employment
10. Green Power (slanted more towards business cost cutting than
environment security)

There will be a 62% annual net valuation increase in mining valuable
minerals, specifically oil, gold, copper and iron. Don't accurately know how
the consumer market will be affected by this, but my inference is:

If there is a net valuation increase in the mining industry, then that points
out an investment and demand increase in
oil, gold, copper and iron. Since a majority of the global consumer market
does not invest in oil, copper and iron and does not demand wholesale
volumes of oil, gold, copper and iron, two things come into mind in terms
of the consumer market:

1. They will invest in gold more this year.
2. There will be home businesses globally where they try to invest in
copper and iron via small recycling stations.

Consumer market psychographing and market group selection come next
to market research. Then: Keyword research...

Afterwards: Competition research...
- Thanks
- 1 reply
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- carlos123 13 years ago
  
  Thanks for the input Marx. Something to think about!
  
  Things are going better today in that I have been learning how to use the new Adwords Keyword Tool better (I was more used to the old one when I last did a stint of massive keyword research).
  
  And I have been using Microsoft's Commercial Intent site to help me gauge the buying value of keywords.
  
  Also I have been learning how to drill down into a keyword category through the Adwords Keyword Tool which is helping a lot.
  
  And I am now focusing on potentially building a site with lots of pages aimed at very long tail phrases which is a rather different approach for me (though I will certainly not ignore a great keyword phrase that might make a nice mini-niche site all on it's own).
  
  I still haven't settled on any keywords yet but I am munching on a couple of categories that look promising.
  
  Carlos
  
  Thanks
  
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HigherPrThanGod

13 years ago

Originally Posted by carlos123

I have spent all day doing keyword research trying to find good niches and I can't seem to find any. This is absolutely the hardest thing about internet marketing anything and I was wondering if you all could give me some tips on what I might be doing wrong.

Assuming all the excepted wisdom here is accurate it should be easier than what I am experiencing to find some.

Here are some examples...

electric tankless water heater
- high PR in top spots
heat pump water heater
- high PR in top spots
on demand water heater
- high PR in top spots
grass seed san diego
- PR of top 4: 3,-,-,0,4,2
- no discernable searches for Global or Local in Google Keyword Tool
external hard drive case
- PR 5's in top two positions.
external hard drive enclosure
- PR 5's in top two positions.
buy hard drive online
- PR 6's in top two positions.
ice cream machine
- PR 5 and 4 in top two.

There are lots of others but the results are pretty much the same. There are so many internet marketers scouring the net for good keywords that it seems like there are very, very few good one's left.

Everybody and their next door neighbor is trying to make a buck and desperately trying to find some good keywords.

My criteria are as follows...

* No PR over 3 in any of the top 4 positions (the one's with no PR don't count into this top 4)
* Exact match in Google's Adwords Tool.
* Must have at least 1000 Global Monthly Searches and preferably also Local Searches
* Must be a buying keyword as in something that someone is searching to buy not get info on.

Even with this very basic criteria I just can't find any (at least today).

My aim is to build niche web sites that I can monetize through the Amazon affiliate program. These would be product related niches rather than informational niches that might be better suited for Adsense (I tried that once and built 7 sites once and didn't make a penny...well ranked for most of them too).

I know that using PR this way may be frowned upon here but I have to have a way to quickly weed out those that will be tougher to rank for when compared to others. The PR seems to be a key criteria to allow me to do this based on what I have read elsewhere. PR as in the authority of a site.

I've used Google's Product Search, hot deals in Amazon, I've followed and drilled down with Google suggestions, looked on industry sites, etc. for ideas on keywords to look at. Even gone back and looked for ideas on old magazines from the 1920's for keywords to potentially target.

Nothing so far.

This is without a doubt the most discouraging aspect of Internet Marketing for me. I mean it sounds easy from what I read here on various threads but the reality of finding good keywords seems to be a lot harder than meets the eye I think.

Unless I am doing something wrong.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Carlos

I used to use a program called Micro Niche Finder. I rarely found anything good with that program. Now I just use Google's keyword tool.

If the exact traffic is good then see if I can find a good (.com, org or net) domain name to use for it. Then I'll get the domain and move on it. Avoiding competition is silly when you think about it.

One domain for you could be buyelectrictanklesswaterheater.com. Get something that fits and is a .com/net or org and get to work.

Thanks
1 reply

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http://amazonpcbuilder.com/

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carlos123 13 years ago

Originally Posted by HigherPrThanGod

...Avoiding competition is silly when you think about it...

Absolutely right on. It's not that I am trying to avoid competition but rather that I am trying to find niches that are not as competitive. That way I can get more bang for whatever time I spend building sites in a particular niche.

Carlos
- Thanks
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JohnMcCabe

13 years ago

Carlos, you may want to take a look at this thread:

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-miss-out.html

It may help you past this obstacle.

[ 2 ] Thanks

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Thorleifur Reynisson

13 years ago

There is a guy here on the warriorforum called Sean Donahoe.
He´s go some great strategy to finding keywords and geting to the top of Google. Check it out here.

No opt-in or nothing.

Thanks
2 replies

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carlos123 13 years ago

Thanks for the wonderful input you all! Much appreciated and perhaps more importantly it has renewed my hope. Hope that little ol me can find me some of my own niches to monetize and make an internet living from.

I'll respond in more detail in further posts (I hope I don't flood this thread with responses but I would like to comment on some of what was said).

Carlos
- Thanks
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carlos123

13 years ago

Howdy Terro.

Originally Posted by Terro

There is a guy here on the warriorforum called Sean Donahoe.
He´s go some great strategy to finding keywords and geting to the top of Google. Check it out here.

No opt-in or nothing.

That link, when I went to it, scared the living daylights out of me (in a manner of speaking of course).

Here I am browsing in a state of semi-slumber (didn't get enough sleep last night and I just ate a big breakfast) and I click on the link using a shortcut that opens it in a new tab that I don't immediately see. As I am continuing to read this thread and otherwise occupied...out comes this ear splitting, hard rock sounding music from out of my computer! I didn't even know it was music at first LOL.

I will definitely listen to what Sean has to say now that I am awake LOL.

Carlos

Thanks

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frogman

13 years ago

Originally Posted by carlos123

This is absolutely the hardest thing about internet marketing

Carlos

Stick around and you'll prove yourself wrong

Thanks
1 reply

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carlos123 13 years ago

Originally Posted by frogman

Stick around and you'll prove yourself wrong

I hope you're right Frogman. On the technical side of things I can run circles around WordPress for example. Even built and am using my own CMS (Content Management System) which makes building mini-sites much easier on me.

But keyword selection? I feel like a baby trying to walk and not being very successful at it yet.

I beat my head against the proverbial brick wall and come up empty. I try some keywords and build sites around them and get them well ranked and nothing. I go back to beating my head against the keyword selection wall., I give up. I come back. I bang my head against the wall some more...nothing.

Yet.

But I am sticking with it. There is simply too much at stake for me to give up permanently.

I MUST be able to live anywhere in the world and make money over the Internet if I am to accomplish what I want to do in the next five years.

There is no other realistic option for me.

Carlos
- Thanks
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Ernie Lo

13 years ago

I use Adsense for now and have just started trying with amazon.

Thanks

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rammonster

13 years ago

I just posted a thread on this a few hours ago...you can find it in my signature...i hope it help's you out...i understand where you're coming from...starting out motivated and then getting stuck at the very first step.. But yea...do check out my thread...i have outlined it step by step

Thanks

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miamipuaintraining

13 years ago

I think these days, there's no such thing as a niche, just some niches that are large, and others that are way larger. At this point I think Internet marketers have done every niche to death. But still keyword research is vital.

Thanks
1 reply

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netkid 13 years ago

carlos123,

You know, I've bought several WSO's and also other IM products and found that many of their approaches to starting Internet Marketing is just to use your "gut" to decide on a niche to start out with from the start. Yes you need to do preliminary research with niches but don't get locked in to "paralysis by analysis" syndrome.

Find a niche whether it was from broad match or exact and use your "gut" to just go roll out something/anything.

"The faster you fail, the more likely you get close to success."
- Thanks
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gunner1945

13 years ago

I personally never worry too much about PR. By the time you have built your site out, done your linking campaign you should be well on the way to catching up with their PR especially if you are buying aged domains.

Thanks

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tritrain

13 years ago

For established niches, you have to find the line between competition and traffic.

Use HubPages and Squidoo to test the niches.

Thanks
1 reply

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Domains for sale - see seopositions.net

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carlos123 13 years ago

Originally Posted by tritrain

For established niches, you have to find the line between competition and traffic.

Use HubPages and Squidoo to test the niches.

Hmm...interesting tritrain. Have you actually done that and successfully so in the past?

Are you saying to build a HubPage or Squidoo page about the long tail and then see how it ranks initially in Google? And then take it down and build a real web site around any pages that get an initial good ranking?

How exactly would you do the testing and what would you look for in such.

I means seems like a good approach and hey...it's free, no domain costs involved but I am just wondering exactly how you would do such a thing if you don't mind sharing more with us.

Carlos
- Thanks
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ashSimpson87

13 years ago

Yes if you will find it manually you really have a hard time looking for it. Use some tool that will help you.

Thanks

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Couch2Cage

13 years ago

Blue ocean strategy is a good book that isn't specific to the internet, but will get you thinking between the lines a little bit.

Thanks

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rammonster

13 years ago

OH FOR PETE'S sake can people STOP being so technical about finding a niche!!

I just made a WHOLE THREAD after i read this thread.....on finding good niches

Kindly. CHECK OUT MY SIGNATURE!!!

CHEERS!!

Thanks
1 reply

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carlos123 13 years ago

Originally Posted by rammonster

OH FOR PETE'S sake can people STOP being so technical about finding a niche!!

Ah...ahem...well...hmm...no?

I like being technical. Not to an excess mind you as I do believe in taking action when it is warranted but I am not a believer in the philosophy of just do it as is sometimes encouraged here.

I like being the turtle who plods along and establishes their internet empire on the solid rock of sound analysis and careful selection of keywords.

But to each his own.

I acknowledge that some just do it types succeed quite well but some don't. Just as some analysts never succeed while some do.

In the end it's whatever you feel comfortable doing I think.

Carlos
- Thanks
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Mike McAleer

13 years ago

[DELETED]

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carlos123 13 years ago

Originally Posted by FreshDomains

Find one with ZERO competition

I don't think such a niche would be worthwhile. I mean there are supposedly lots of good niches around but I think it is safe to say at this point in the life of the Internet and given all the busy Warriors here who are all trying to make money over the Internet that...well...no good niche has ZERO competition these days.

Every good niche will have some competition. I think that is probably true.

So I don't think I would want one with ZERO competition.

Unless you know of a way to find some GOOD niches with ZERO competition that you might care to share with us

Carlos
- Thanks
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I must be doing something wrong trying to find good niches...cause I can't find any!

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