Are You A Schemer Or A Marketer? (Find out here)

I don't understand how the following are "scheming"

Same here, I use things from both sides so what does that make me?

What does Anime have to do with anything?

Hello,

i agree with (almost) anything here, but do NOT underestimate the power of Senuke. If you have an aged site and understand how to use it properly, it is extremely, extremely powerful.
The same is valid for all kinds of intelligent link building, including social bookmarks.

Do me a favor and look up some extreme niches, like weight loss.

Examine the top sites in Google which make a KILLING obviously, and then ask yourself how they got their rankings. HINT: MOST of those sites did not get #1 for "lose weight" in natural ways

What a negative post.
As you said, you are new here, think of a way to be positive, it will pay off in the long run.
From your post, it sounds as if you put your hand in an oven and got your wallet burned by the various methods you claim to be used by "schemers".
I shouldn't mention that you are blatantly bashing products in the wrong section of the forum.
Smoke some weed or something, whatever'll make ya feel better about life. Heck, maybe you should work at McDonald's...:rolleyes:

Never made any money scheming so I had to make a living marketing and promoting online.

Great post OP - I actually started thinking what you're saying about two weeks ago. Now I'm focused on building a quality list.

Sir, I must needs do all things by my lonesome on account of financial pressures. What for I be schemer?

Excellent post.

One quibble. I use online business to generate cash for
offline non-profit work. Some of us are weird that way

All success
Dr.Mani

Hi Beachdude,

As you say, you're new, so I'll forgive you.

The trick of putting a negative spin on one list and a positive spin on another, we know that one. As we also know the smuggling a few bad eggs into your negative list trick, and the few obviously positives into the good list. We have seen it thousands of times.

Yes it is simple to win over the skimmers (not referring to the above), but the people you want on-side, read things, thoroughly!

When you generalize to the degree you have, you are more likely to irritate people than anything else, though the vast majority wont say anything.

For instance, I don't use autoblogs, but you have irritated a large group of people by going after them. Seriously, they are a group that hold a grudge like you wouldn't believe, but largely because their antagonists take every chance possible to slip them a crafty kick.

Even just the basic "See what sticks" theory being put down, ignores people like Einstein, who built his reputation on publishing what stuck. You cannot build a business entirely on what others are doing, because in doing so you are just one of many, and have no unique selling point.

I would say that the definition of a schemer is exactly the same as that of an entrepreneur, albeit one with less vision and success.

My 2c,
Colin

Great post. Puts things in perspective. Thank you!

Who cares if you do everything yourself

I do everything myself and trust me it works out very well for me. It is not anyones fault if you are not a fast and creative learner. And that does not in any way make me a schemer.

I personally hate auto blogging. In fact I have said it time and again anything that has to do with auto is non of my business.

So believe me that list you have up there is just a joke. And for your information the best and most successful businesses were built on the bases of the theory of trying what sticks, that is what makes them unique when they stick and hence a great deal of success.

And finally you don't even need to say that you are new, your ideas and post say it all.

I do everything myself and trust me it works out very well for me. It is not anyones fault if you are not a fast and creative learner. And that does not in any way make me a schemer.

I personally hate auto blogging. In fact I have said it time and again anything that has to do with auto is non of my business.

So believe me that list you have up there is just a joke. And for your information the best and most successful businesses were built on the bases of the theory of trying what sticks, that is what makes them unique when they stick and hence a great deal of success.

And finally you don't even need to say that you are new, your ideas and post say it all.

Gee that was funny...

In my opinion, a "schemer", in the negative sense, is:
•a spammer or a scammer aiming to establish a parasitic or commensal
relationship with others, for their own benefit while the other party loses
something of value or gains nothing of value...

And: A "marketer", in the positive sense, is:
•a middleman sitting between a set of benefits and people who need those
benefits, aiming to establish a mutual relationship with others, for the benefit of everyone involved...

Doing things yourself doesn't make you a schemer, it makes you frugal. There is nothing wrong with it at all. In fact, it is important to be at this point at least once so you know how to properly outsource the things you do not wish to do.

I spend money on advertising in the form of having others post profile links and bookmark links, and they do the job I want them to do. I spend money on products to do these things myself as well.

I do a lot myself, but of course my cash flow doesn't allow much different currently. But simply it is not that difficult to do what I need done either. The hardest part is content creation, which is also the most expensive. Labeling me as a schemer because I practice my art while being paid for it isn't greatly appreciated.

The whole idea of spending money to find out what works is all fine and good when you have the cash flow to support it. But, labeling people who have found themselves without jobs but honestly want to do things properly as schemers isn't good either.

I know two marketers that make a fine living using tools such as SEnuke as well. Both very predominant on this forum. While I will say that it doesn't fit into my overall business plan, it works well for them... who am I to judge?

I think the whole debate boils down to what you are willing to do in order to further your business and what you aren't willing to do. Each person will have to make their own choices when it comes to this. Stupid lists like this shouldn't even be a factor.

Yeah... your cute.

I happen to use SENuke, and I consider it a great piece of software. Then again that list you put up would disqualify most marketers from being anything but schemers.

As for outsourcing... seriously?

Aren't alot of schemers your clients?

"trying to figure out a secret trick to make a dime"

Which would prove schemers make more schemers and marketers make more marketers? or more marketers and schemers ... ?

Probably the latter.

Interesting ideas though.

The two lists are far from mutually exclusive.

You will find marketers that use paid advertising also getting backlinks from forum profiles, posting youtube videos, spinning text, mashing rss feeds and submitting them.

All they are doing is using every tool possible in their arsenal.

I am always wary when people give their opinion and present it as fact.

This is a silly post. Define SEO! For example "spin content that gets flagged." If I spin it and it doesn't get flagged then I am not a schemer. Stupid post. Worthless. IMHO

Not sure I appreciate such a quick, and harsh judgment but I understand the point you're trying to make ..

Schemers as you call them are those selling and / or looking for the "get rich quick" scams and most likely make up the 90% online marketer failure stat ..

I'm sure everyone will agree that it's not easy out there for newbies ...They are constantly being bombarded with this and that offer ..It cause's overload -

I'm learning too & slogging my way through all the crap - I'm learning alot but still have miles to go ..

To me, it breaks down to my choice to be lazy and make fast money or work hard to achieve my immediate, short / long term goals

I may be wrong but I think I need a both strategies to get where I want to go?

Agree?
Disagree?

I'm always open to input
Thanks!

I totally agree with the OP. Most people fail to understand that the best and fastest way to make money online (or even offline) is to actually create value instead of spamming facebook/twitter/youtube/craiglist/etc all day long.

And......

The Schemers come out of the woodwork to defend their position. My bullet points weren't meant to be the "Definite list" of things that define a schemer or marketer, they were simply meant to give an example of things schemers "Usually" delve into.

If I bought you an all expense paid 4 week trip to Hawaii, and you weren't allowed to take your cell phone or laptop, would your business still be around when you got back?

If not, then you are most likely a schemer, and schemers give marketers a bad name. The main point I aimed to drive home is that we all need to move our focus on building internet assets, so that 5 years from now we still have a business.

Here is a couple case studies for an example:

Schemer:

• Reads Autoblog System X, gets pumped up, & makes 100 autoblogs
• Uses SENuke to get those sites ranked
• Profits from adsense, makes a little money
• 8 months later gets banned by Google & Gets sites deindexed.
• Starts with new scheme
• 5 years later he has no assets, and is left with the newest "Scheme"

Marketer:

• Hires a designer on elance to build a "How Fit Am I" survey site, that requires a questionnaire (Age, Sex, Weight, Height), and requires an email sign up to get the results of the test.
• Launches some tests on Google Adwords, and Split tests his site using Google Website Optimizer, Clicktale, or crazyegg to boost EPC, and conversion rates.
• Scales advertising through media buys, PPC, & Mobile Advertising
• 5 years later he has an email list of over 400,000, and is profiting over $300,000 a month from the list with targeted CPA offers.

I am sure that Jonathon Mizel, who thanked my OP, is using SENuke as we speak to build an autoblog.

As to the OP...

NEWS FLASH:

Schemers make money, too!

The only real difference, IMHO, is that they have to work MUCH harder to keep making money.

The schemers can do some of the things on your Marketer's list, and vice-versa.

Don't misunderstand me, though, I think schemers got it all wrong. However, I think you're over-simplifying and mixing up your bullet points. All in all, I think your main point is a good one.

All the best,
Michael

beachdude - not sure i agree with all your bullet points, but I get the overall message you're sending. I am only about 4 months or so into IM and at first I thought I could be slick and try to be a "schemer" but it didnt take long to realize this was false hope. If I really was serious about making this a career, then I could not rely on "scheming" the rest of my life.

Any business that has a low barrier to entry will attract "schemers" and quick buck artists. At some level, every entrepreneur is a dreamer. The key is to harness that power and create a real business. Unfortunately, many never get that far and just bounce from idea to idea hoping that the next one will make the difference.

I was talking to a guy the other day who makes a pretty decent amount online and he lamented that he felt like he was "just making money" and not building anything. And that is the deal - to me at least.

I agree at some point (unless you are lucky, experienced or super good) you will be a schemer. till you graduate into a marketer. just like school not everyone graduates!

It's like a train wreck, you just can't help but look at it when you know you should look away.

There have been so many "hater" threads lately, this one just adds to the mess. Some people just cant seem to accept that others do business differently than they do, because of this they must be doing something wrong.

10 minutes of my life I will never get back...

This has become a very interesting and provocative discussion.

You should be warned that a lot of the people you define as 'schemers' are lurking at this forum. And they get out of their way to prove you're wrong.

Though I know exactly where you're coming from and agree with you mostly. A lot of items you list in your schemers list won't ever bring permanent business!

Take links wheels, social spamming, blog comment spamming, spinning content and autoblogging. No matter how good they're working for you... one day will come and things will turn around indefinitely!
(Sorry, spamming sounds negative - but I just state it the way I see it; everything can be used in a good and a bad way!)

Anyhow... take a look at Amazon, Facebook, Google or eBay. The 'big shots' of online business nowadays. They've never focussed on any of those 'schemer' things. Instead they focussed on long-term business success.

Oh well, actually this thread is both good and bad. The good is that it will convert a few people into real marketers. The negative? Read some of the above posts...

Some of the assertions here are helpful, but there is a lot of arrogance that is off putting. There seems to also be the idea that the only traffic worth having is paid traffic - that article marketing, blogging, social media, etc. are not helpful to building up a business and making money. Honestly - that is just WRONG.

Really, seems like a bit of a 'crap post' TBH.

You're too into the duality model of the universe, where people are 'good' or 'bad' based on arbitrary definitions you made up.

Please remove "Watches Anime 5 hours a day"