Are You A Schemer Or A Marketer? (Find out here)

58 replies
I'm not a forum type of guy, and have only been on here a few days, but I have noticed something on here. 90% of the people in this forum are schemers:


The reason you aren't making any money is because you are a schemer. Schemers are always trying to figure out a secret trick to make a dime, and it always fails. You need to become a marketer and stop scheming. How to tell if you are a schemer or a marketer:

Schemer:
  • Makes Autoblogs that never get indexed
  • Makes Blogspot blogs for backlinks
  • Spins articles that get flagged for dupe content
  • Spams Twitter and gets his IP banned
  • Spams Facebook
  • Submits his sites to RSS directories using RSS Submitting software
  • Buys software & MMO products that never work to try to scheme even more
  • Spams Craigslist
  • Makes MMO products/WSO's even though he hasn't made a dime
  • Asks questions about Linkwheeling on the warrior forum
  • Uses SENuke
  • Social Bookmarks for backlinks
  • Makes Forum profiles for backlinks
  • Makes YouTube videos with his affiliate link in them
  • Does everything himself
  • Watches Anime 5 hours a day
  • If he stops scheming his income stops
  • Never spends money on advertising because deep down he believes he will lose all of his money
  • Focuses on spamming the web, and getting money from people
Marketer:
  • Uses offline cash flow to fund online business
  • Focuses on Listing Building
  • Understands he will lose money sometimes
  • Creates MMO products & software to sell to the schemers
  • Creates great sites that build backlinks virally
  • Outsources 100% of tasks that don't fit skillset
  • Builds businesses that run themselves
  • Focuses on Volume
  • Is willing to spend money to find out what works
  • Reads marketing classics like Tested Advertising Methods, and Scientific Advertising.
  • Has a Long term approach (12 months+)
  • Pays for advertising (CPV, PPC, Media Buys, Banners, Mobile)
  • Focuses on adding value to the web, and getting compensated in the process.
I'd like to personally challenge all of the schemers to move into the Marketer realm. It's not that you are bad people, it's that you will find so much more happiness, and make so much more money on the Marketer side. You may not make $100 by tonight, but over time you will make money, and a lot of it.

If you don't have any money to buy ads right now, spending 10 hours a day using SENuke, posting links on Twitter, and other methods won't get you anywhere. Go get a job a Mcdonalds, work 20 hours a week, make an extra $600/month, and use that money to start advertising. Get an account with Aweber or iContact and start building a list, and email that list valuable offers and information based on what they want. Test out Facebook, Plenty of Fish, CPV, and other forms of advertising.

Billions of dollars is exchanging hands on the internet every day, how much of that are you getting?
#find #marketer #schemer
  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hlatky
    I don't understand how the following are "scheming"

    Originally Posted by BeachDude View Post


    Schemer:
    • Makes Autoblogs that never get indexed
    • Makes Blogspot blogs for backlinks
    • Spins articles that get flagged for dupe content
    • Asks questions about Linkwheeling on the warrior forum
    • Uses SENuke
    • Social Bookmarks for backlinks
    • Makes Forum profiles for backlinks
    • Makes YouTube videos with his affiliate link in them
    • Does everything himself
    • Watches Anime 5 hours a day
    • Never spends money on advertising because deep down he believes he will lose all of his money
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    • Profile picture of the author BeachDude
      Originally Posted by Mike Hlatky View Post

      I don't understand how the following are "scheming"
      I may not be correct on all of my "Schemer" bullets, but here is the best definition I can write for an Internet Marketing Schemer:

      "One who spends all of ones time trying to get money from the web without adding any value to the web."
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    • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
      Originally Posted by Mike Hlatky View Post

      I don't understand how the following are "scheming"
      Did you listen to The Joker in the video?

      The things that he listed were things that he felt are more like throwing crap on a wall to see what sticks, rather than having an actual plan with planned results.

      I'm not taking any sides on this thread, just being your friendly neighborhood translator.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Hlatky
        Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

        Did you listen to The Joker in the video?

        The things that he listed were things that he felt are more like throwing crap on a wall to see what sticks, rather than having an actual plan with planned results.

        I'm not taking any sides on this thread, just being your friendly neighborhood translator.
        Thanks Spidey, but you can use most of that stuff in some sort of marketing plan. I'm just sayin'........ :rolleyes:
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        • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
          Originally Posted by Mike Hlatky View Post

          Thanks Spidey, but you can use most of that stuff in some sort of marketing plan. I'm just sayin'........ :rolleyes:

          Just look at a couple of the names that used the thanks button to see how you should take notice of this post... one name in particular should make you think real hard (and i dont mean my name either)

          thats all i got to say on the matter
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Hlatky
            Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

            Just look at a couple of the names that used the thanks button to see how you should take notice of this post... one name in particular should make you think real hard (and i dont mean my name either)

            thats all i got to say on the matter
            And if they thanked a guy that jumped off a bridge, should I do that too?

            I'm really not a "follow the leader" type of person, sorry
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
            Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

            Just look at a couple of the names that used the thanks button to see how you should take notice of this post... one name in particular should make you think real hard (and i dont mean my name either)

            thats all i got to say on the matter
            You're kidding, right?

            Otherwise, what you're saying is that we should agree with the OP because of who thanked it? Heck, if that were the case, why have a Thanks button at all, right? I mean we could just designate your "one name in particular" as the person to agree with on all matters.

            Yeah, heaven forbid if we were to think for ourselves.

            All the best,
            Michael
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            • Profile picture of the author Doug Wakefield
              Its hard not to be a schemer when the only acceptable means of promotion or business involves spending money, even before making it.

              Profits from adsense, makes a little money
              Quite possibly the person toys around with a hobby site.

              I could go into more, but there really is little need. The issue is that you are lumping far too many people into a general category without even stepping back to see their big picture. You wanna come in here and call people schemers and scammers without even knowing a lick about them.

              I will use myself as an example. I don't spend money on advertising because I simply do not have the money to spare. To me, it is much more important to build my assests (which are article packs in my case) than spend my money, because without the assets the money would simply be wasted.

              The exception would be in buying some PPC for the niches that I do have packs up for. But when I already rank on page one for a decent chunk of those keywords (thanks to scheming links that I outsourced to save my time) I see little sense in spending money there either currently.

              If you were to send me on a Hawaiian vacation, everything I have done will continue to make me money. I wouldn't be able to retire on it, but that has more to do with the smaller scale of my operation compared to what it would need to be to sustain my lifestyle.

              In effect, ill continue "scheming" while I build my business. If it makes you feel better then by all means, lump me with the turds.
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            • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
              Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

              You're kidding, right?

              Otherwise, what you're saying is that we should agree with the OP because of who thanked it? Heck, if that were the case, why have a Thanks button at all, right? I mean we could just designate your "one name in particular" as the person to agree with on all matters.

              Yeah, heaven forbid if we were to think for ourselves.

              All the best,
              Michael
              OK someone didnt take their happy pill today

              All i said was with Jonathon thanking the OP then it was well worth re reading the post again and taking more notice of it.

              You can pick the post apart nit picking or you can take the general synopsis and run with it, over all the post is a good correlation between the mindset of the people that would end up in one of the 2 camps
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              • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
                Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

                OK someone didnt take their happy pill today

                All i said was with Jonathon thanking the OP then it was well worth re reading the post again and taking more notice of it.

                You can pick the post apart nit picking or you can take the general synopsis and run with it, over all the post is a good correlation between the mindset of the people that would end up in one of the 2 camps
                I understand, Robert. If you didn't take your happy pill, that's okay.

                It didn't matter to me WHO the said thanker was, it was the overall point that we should all agree with a post because one person thanked it.

                As far as "nit picking" goes, I look at it like this: ALL aspects of any post are fair game. Again, I agree with the general idea, BUT when the details are THAT questionable, then it can dilute the overall gist of the post. And to question those details is what having a forum is all about.

                Unless of course you also think we shouldn't question things once certain people have thanked a post?

                Just kidding, I know that's not what you're saying. However, it's all fair game, and the OP has said enough things that are deserving of further scrutiny. But if Warren Buffet was giving advice on investing, then it would certainly be worthy of another look.

                All the best,
                Michael
                Signature

                "Ich bin en fuego!"
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  • Profile picture of the author JustKid
    Same here, I use things from both sides so what does that make me?

    What does Anime have to do with anything?
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    Hello,

    i agree with (almost) anything here, but do NOT underestimate the power of Senuke. If you have an aged site and understand how to use it properly, it is extremely, extremely powerful.
    The same is valid for all kinds of intelligent link building, including social bookmarks.

    Do me a favor and look up some extreme niches, like weight loss.

    Examine the top sites in Google which make a KILLING obviously, and then ask yourself how they got their rankings. HINT: MOST of those sites did not get #1 for "lose weight" in natural ways
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    • Profile picture of the author BeachDude
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      Hello,

      i agree with (almost) anything here, but do NOT underestimate the power of Senuke. If you have an aged site and understand how to use it properly, it is extremely, extremely powerful.
      The same is valid for all kinds of intelligent link building, including social bookmarks.
      All these things are great, if you are hiring someone to do it for you.
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      Life is a beach I'm just playin' in the sand.

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  • Profile picture of the author wanna-succeed
    What a negative post.
    As you said, you are new here, think of a way to be positive, it will pay off in the long run.
    From your post, it sounds as if you put your hand in an oven and got your wallet burned by the various methods you claim to be used by "schemers".
    I shouldn't mention that you are blatantly bashing products in the wrong section of the forum.
    Smoke some weed or something, whatever'll make ya feel better about life. Heck, maybe you should work at McDonald's...:rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author hotftuna
    Never made any money scheming so I had to make a living marketing and promoting online.
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  • Profile picture of the author 100Bandz
    Great post OP - I actually started thinking what you're saying about two weeks ago. Now I'm focused on building a quality list.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lumpy Rutherford
    Banned
    Sir, I must needs do all things by my lonesome on account of financial pressures. What for I be schemer?
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  • Profile picture of the author drmani
    Originally Posted by BeachDude View Post

    • Uses offline cash flow to fund online business
    Excellent post.

    One quibble. I use online business to generate cash for
    offline non-profit work. Some of us are weird that way

    All success
    Dr.Mani
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  • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
    Hi Beachdude,

    As you say, you're new, so I'll forgive you.

    The trick of putting a negative spin on one list and a positive spin on another, we know that one. As we also know the smuggling a few bad eggs into your negative list trick, and the few obviously positives into the good list. We have seen it thousands of times.

    Yes it is simple to win over the skimmers (not referring to the above), but the people you want on-side, read things, thoroughly!

    When you generalize to the degree you have, you are more likely to irritate people than anything else, though the vast majority wont say anything.

    For instance, I don't use autoblogs, but you have irritated a large group of people by going after them. Seriously, they are a group that hold a grudge like you wouldn't believe, but largely because their antagonists take every chance possible to slip them a crafty kick.

    Even just the basic "See what sticks" theory being put down, ignores people like Einstein, who built his reputation on publishing what stuck. You cannot build a business entirely on what others are doing, because in doing so you are just one of many, and have no unique selling point.

    I would say that the definition of a schemer is exactly the same as that of an entrepreneur, albeit one with less vision and success.

    My 2c,
    Colin
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ten
    Great post. Puts things in perspective. Thank you!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarah Bosen
    Who cares if you do everything yourself
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  • Profile picture of the author A P Geofrey
    I do everything myself and trust me it works out very well for me. It is not anyones fault if you are not a fast and creative learner. And that does not in any way make me a schemer.

    I personally hate auto blogging. In fact I have said it time and again anything that has to do with auto is non of my business.

    So believe me that list you have up there is just a joke. And for your information the best and most successful businesses were built on the bases of the theory of trying what sticks, that is what makes them unique when they stick and hence a great deal of success.

    And finally you don't even need to say that you are new, your ideas and post say it all.
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  • Profile picture of the author A P Geofrey
    I do everything myself and trust me it works out very well for me. It is not anyones fault if you are not a fast and creative learner. And that does not in any way make me a schemer.

    I personally hate auto blogging. In fact I have said it time and again anything that has to do with auto is non of my business.

    So believe me that list you have up there is just a joke. And for your information the best and most successful businesses were built on the bases of the theory of trying what sticks, that is what makes them unique when they stick and hence a great deal of success.

    And finally you don't even need to say that you are new, your ideas and post say it all.
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  • Profile picture of the author goodguy333
    Watches Anime 5 hours a day
    Gee that was funny...
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  • In my opinion, a "schemer", in the negative sense, is:
    •a spammer or a scammer aiming to establish a parasitic or commensal
    relationship with others, for their own benefit while the other party loses
    something of value or gains nothing of value...

    And: A "marketer", in the positive sense, is:
    •a middleman sitting between a set of benefits and people who need those
    benefits, aiming to establish a mutual relationship with others, for the benefit of everyone involved...
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  • Profile picture of the author Doug Wakefield
    Doing things yourself doesn't make you a schemer, it makes you frugal. There is nothing wrong with it at all. In fact, it is important to be at this point at least once so you know how to properly outsource the things you do not wish to do.

    I spend money on advertising in the form of having others post profile links and bookmark links, and they do the job I want them to do. I spend money on products to do these things myself as well.

    I do a lot myself, but of course my cash flow doesn't allow much different currently. But simply it is not that difficult to do what I need done either. The hardest part is content creation, which is also the most expensive. Labeling me as a schemer because I practice my art while being paid for it isn't greatly appreciated.

    The whole idea of spending money to find out what works is all fine and good when you have the cash flow to support it. But, labeling people who have found themselves without jobs but honestly want to do things properly as schemers isn't good either.

    I know two marketers that make a fine living using tools such as SEnuke as well. Both very predominant on this forum. While I will say that it doesn't fit into my overall business plan, it works well for them... who am I to judge?

    I think the whole debate boils down to what you are willing to do in order to further your business and what you aren't willing to do. Each person will have to make their own choices when it comes to this. Stupid lists like this shouldn't even be a factor.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      I actually agree and disagree to some extent with a lot of the OP's points.

      I know for a fact I'm not a schemer and do things very ethically, I want a long term business that will grow with or without me and provide me the level of comfort I want.

      This however is just wrong. Plain and simple...

      Does everything himself
      I just don't get that. When I started I was flat broke, living in a room in a very undesirable area with a lot of very nasty drug addicts. I had no money. This is how many people start, with very little money.

      How can doing stuff yourself make you a schemer, which is actually a nice way of saying scammer.

      Also this is a marketer...

      Creates MMO products & software to sell to the schemers
      What about people like me that have never sold MMO products because they've learned how to MMO in other niches?

      Go get a job a Mcdonalds, work 20 hours a week, make an extra $600/month, and use that money to start advertising
      I have authority sites that get natural traffic and lots of returning visitors I don't pay for advertising at all and at the same time I create quality content that provides value. Am I a schemer for not advertising or a marketer for providing value?

      It's an ok post but it's a generalisation and cannot be applied across the whole forum.

      There are more than just 2 types of people in this forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author Orator
    Originally Posted by BeachDude View Post

    I'm not a forum type of guy, and have only been on here a few days, but I have noticed something on here. 90% of the people in this forum are schemers:


    The reason you aren't making any money is because you are a schemer. Schemers are always trying to figure out a secret trick to make a dime, and it always fails. You need to become a marketer and stop scheming. How to tell if you are a schemer or a marketer:

    Schemer:
    • Makes Autoblogs that never get indexed
    • Makes Blogspot blogs for backlinks
    • Spins articles that get flagged for dupe content
    • Spams Twitter and gets his IP banned
    • Spams Facebook
    • Submits his sites to RSS directories using RSS Submitting software
    • Buys software & MMO products that never work to try to scheme even more
    • Spams Craigslist
    • Makes MMO products/WSO's even though he hasn't made a dime
    • Asks questions about Linkwheeling on the warrior forum
    • Uses SENuke
    • Social Bookmarks for backlinks
    • Makes Forum profiles for backlinks
    • Makes YouTube videos with his affiliate link in them
    • Does everything himself
    • Watches Anime 5 hours a day
    • If he stops scheming his income stops
    • Never spends money on advertising because deep down he believes he will lose all of his money
    • Focuses on spamming the web, and getting money from people
    Marketer:
    • Uses offline cash flow to fund online business
    • Focuses on Listing Building
    • Understands he will lose money sometimes
    • Creates MMO products & software to sell to the schemers
    • Creates great sites that build backlinks virally
    • Outsources 100% of tasks that don't fit skillset
    • Builds businesses that run themselves
    • Focuses on Volume
    • Is willing to spend money to find out what works
    • Reads marketing classics like Tested Advertising Methods, and Scientific Advertising.
    • Has a Long term approach (12 months+)
    • Pays for advertising (CPV, PPC, Media Buys, Banners, Mobile)
    • Focuses on adding value to the web, and getting compensated in the process.
    I'd like to personally challenge all of the schemers to move into the Marketer realm. It's not that you are bad people, it's that you will find so much more happiness, and make so much more money on the Marketer side. You may not make $100 by tonight, but over time you will make money, and a lot of it.

    If you don't have any money to buy ads right now, spending 10 hours a day using SENuke, posting links on Twitter, and other methods won't get you anywhere. Go get a job a Mcdonalds, work 20 hours a week, make an extra $600/month, and use that money to start advertising. Get an account with Aweber or iContact and start building a list, and email that list valuable offers and information based on what they want. Test out Facebook, Plenty of Fish, CPV, and other forms of advertising.

    Billions of dollars is exchanging hands on the internet every day, how much of that are you getting?

    Yeah... your cute.

    I happen to use SENuke, and I consider it a great piece of software. Then again that list you put up would disqualify most marketers from being anything but schemers.

    As for outsourcing... seriously?
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Dolan
    Aren't alot of schemers your clients?

    "trying to figure out a secret trick to make a dime"

    Which would prove schemers make more schemers and marketers make more marketers? or more marketers and schemers ... ?

    Probably the latter.

    Interesting ideas though.
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  • Profile picture of the author profitsforall
    The two lists are far from mutually exclusive.

    You will find marketers that use paid advertising also getting backlinks from forum profiles, posting youtube videos, spinning text, mashing rss feeds and submitting them.

    All they are doing is using every tool possible in their arsenal.

    I am always wary when people give their opinion and present it as fact.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi BeachDude,

      I agree with the crux of your point, which I believe to be 'build a business, not a scheme' - particularly if you plan on reducing your workload over time, while simultaneously increasing income.

      But your explanation of this point has holes in it.

      I may not be correct on all of my "Schemer" bullets, but here is the best definition I can write for an Internet Marketing Schemer:

      "One who spends all of ones time trying to get money from the web without adding any value to the web."
      This then provokes the question -

      How is selling to the schemers adding value? It's actually doing the opposite (it's contributing to and perpetuating the lack of value provided by the schemers) -

      Creates MMO products & software to sell to the schemers
      I also think that you're going off track with your 'adding value' point.

      The difference between someone with a viable business and a schemer has much more to do with whether someone understands and builds their business around positioning, leverage, user generated content, viral marketing, repeat sales and upselling (a business) or whether they set themselves up to make money by being a part of someone elses business -

      Amazon is a business, Amazon affiliates are schemers.

      Over time, Amazon affiliates will ultimately become extinct. Over time, Amazon will ultimately lose the need to share their income with affiliates. The business grows while the scheme becomes extinct.
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Hi BeachDude,

        You make some good points in your OP, but I think the distinction is not between 'schemers' and 'marketers' - after all, anyone who markets is, by definition, a marketer - but between a 'scheme' and a 'business'.

        Here's a perfect and succinct example of that distinction:

        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Amazon is a business, Amazon affiliates are schemers.

        Over time, Amazon affiliates will ultimately become extinct. Over time, Amazon will ultimately lose the need to share their income with affiliates. The business grows while the scheme becomes extinct.
        Many of the attributes you ascribe to 'marketers' are indeed characteristics of a good business. But you slightly betray yourself with:

        Creates MMO products & software to sell to the schemers
        So, it's okay, for example, to sell SENuke, but if you buy or use it, you're a schmuck?

        Your tone with those you label 'schemers' is quite derogatory, indicating a contempt for the very people you'd be willing to have as customers.

        That's not bringing value to the market, IMO.


        Frank
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        • Profile picture of the author kangen
          OMG, i think i am a schemer, that's not fair for the schemers
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by profitsforall View Post

      I am always wary when people give their opinion and present it as fact.
      I agree, I listen to peoples opinions but don't like listening to them put across as facts.

      90% of the forum are schemers?

      That's pretty quick and impressive research, for a guy that joined yesterday.
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      • Profile picture of the author A P Geofrey
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        I agree, I listen to peoples opinions but don't like listening to them put across as facts.

        90% of the forum are schemers?

        That's pretty quick and impressive research, for a guy that joined yesterday.
        Me neither I particularly hate when they say it out loud and try to make others see it as a fact rather than a mere opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lostgringo
    This is a silly post. Define SEO! For example "spin content that gets flagged." If I spin it and it doesn't get flagged then I am not a schemer. Stupid post. Worthless. IMHO
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  • Profile picture of the author ejb2059
    Not sure I appreciate such a quick, and harsh judgment but I understand the point you're trying to make ..

    Schemers as you call them are those selling and / or looking for the "get rich quick" scams and most likely make up the 90% online marketer failure stat ..

    I'm sure everyone will agree that it's not easy out there for newbies ...They are constantly being bombarded with this and that offer ..It cause's overload -

    I'm learning too & slogging my way through all the crap - I'm learning alot but still have miles to go ..

    To me, it breaks down to my choice to be lazy and make fast money or work hard to achieve my immediate, short / long term goals

    I may be wrong but I think I need a both strategies to get where I want to go?

    Agree?
    Disagree?

    I'm always open to input
    Thanks!
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  • I totally agree with the OP. Most people fail to understand that the best and fastest way to make money online (or even offline) is to actually create value instead of spamming facebook/twitter/youtube/craiglist/etc all day long.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
      Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

      I totally agree with the OP. Most people fail to understand that the best and fastest way to make money online (or even offline) is to actually create value instead of spamming facebook/twitter/youtube/craiglist/etc all day long.
      I have done it... I have done great sites with great content. If you don´t actively promote them, not even grandma comes.

      many of the strategies mentioned as schemes, are schemes if used as the main focus. I have seen them work as part of detailed marketing campaigns, and they work pretty well.

      I am a sissie marketer, and proud. And I still use some of those techniques to promote some pages that will spread the word about my business. But once you land on my home, it is all about good quality.
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  • Profile picture of the author BeachDude
    And......

    The Schemers come out of the woodwork to defend their position. My bullet points weren't meant to be the "Definite list" of things that define a schemer or marketer, they were simply meant to give an example of things schemers "Usually" delve into.

    If I bought you an all expense paid 4 week trip to Hawaii, and you weren't allowed to take your cell phone or laptop, would your business still be around when you got back?

    If not, then you are most likely a schemer, and schemers give marketers a bad name. The main point I aimed to drive home is that we all need to move our focus on building internet assets, so that 5 years from now we still have a business.

    Here is a couple case studies for an example:

    Schemer:
    • Reads Autoblog System X, gets pumped up, & makes 100 autoblogs
    • Uses SENuke to get those sites ranked
    • Profits from adsense, makes a little money
    • 8 months later gets banned by Google & Gets sites deindexed.
    • Starts with new scheme
    • 5 years later he has no assets, and is left with the newest "Scheme"
    Marketer:
    • Hires a designer on elance to build a "How Fit Am I" survey site, that requires a questionnaire (Age, Sex, Weight, Height), and requires an email sign up to get the results of the test.
    • Launches some tests on Google Adwords, and Split tests his site using Google Website Optimizer, Clicktale, or crazyegg to boost EPC, and conversion rates.
    • Scales advertising through media buys, PPC, & Mobile Advertising
    • 5 years later he has an email list of over 400,000, and is profiting over $300,000 a month from the list with targeted CPA offers.
    I am sure that Jonathon Mizel, who thanked my OP, is using SENuke as we speak to build an autoblog.
    Signature

    Life is a beach I'm just playin' in the sand.

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    • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
      So you are actually talking about doing marketing as a hobby or as a business...

      yes, when you do it as a business you are eventually able to fire yourself.

      It depends on the niche though. In some niches and business models, you can be out of sight.

      But since the upcoming of social media, it is more common to have people demanding to see the person they are giving their money to. And when you build a business around your person, then things get interesting if you fire yourself.

      you know? I have seen this discussion many times, and most who say what you are saying haven´t really walk the walk to make a site rank, to make the numbers close, to create the business and keep it going...

      Maybe you have, congrats in that case!

      Sandra
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    • Profile picture of the author Orator
      Originally Posted by BeachDude View Post

      And......

      The Schemers come out of the woodwork to defend their position. My bullet points weren't meant to be the "Definite list" of things that define a schemer or marketer, they were simply meant to give an example of things schemers "Usually" delve into.

      If I bought you an all expense paid 4 week trip to Hawaii, and you weren't allowed to take your cell phone or laptop, would your business still be around when you got back?

      If not, then you are most likely a schemer, and schemers give marketers a bad name. The main point I aimed to drive home is that we all need to move our focus on building internet assets, so that 5 years from now we still have a business.

      Here is a couple case studies for an example:

      Schemer:
      • Reads Autoblog System X, gets pumped up, & makes 100 autoblogs
      • Uses SENuke to get those sites ranked
      • Profits from adsense, makes a little money
      • 8 months later gets banned by Google & Gets sites deindexed.
      • Starts with new scheme
      • 5 years later he has no assets, and is left with the newest "Scheme"
      Marketer:
      • Hires a designer on elance to build a "How Fit Am I" survey site, that requires a questionnaire (Age, Sex, Weight, Height), and requires an email sign up to get the results of the test.
      • Launches some tests on Google Adwords, and Split tests his site using Google Website Optimizer, Clicktale, or crazyegg to boost EPC, and conversion rates.
      • Scales advertising through media buys, PPC, & Mobile Advertising
      • 5 years later he has an email list of over 400,000, and is profiting over $300,000 a month from the list with targeted CPA offers.
      I am sure that Jonathon Mizel, who thanked my OP, is using SENuke as we speak to build an autoblog.
      There are a lot of bold statements from someone so new to this forum. Also these are your opinions, and if we don't fit in your particular ethical checklist there were... schemers?

      Yeah, I use SENuke, and I've never had a site sandboxed. Also just because a famous marketer "thanks" your post, just means he agree's with your opinion, it's hardly enough reason for people to change their entire online strategy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    As to the OP...

    NEWS FLASH:

    Schemers make money, too!

    The only real difference, IMHO, is that they have to work MUCH harder to keep making money.

    The schemers can do some of the things on your Marketer's list, and vice-versa.

    Don't misunderstand me, though, I think schemers got it all wrong. However, I think you're over-simplifying and mixing up your bullet points. All in all, I think your main point is a good one.

    All the best,
    Michael
    Signature

    "Ich bin en fuego!"
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  • Profile picture of the author custom2211
    beachdude - not sure i agree with all your bullet points, but I get the overall message you're sending. I am only about 4 months or so into IM and at first I thought I could be slick and try to be a "schemer" but it didnt take long to realize this was false hope. If I really was serious about making this a career, then I could not rely on "scheming" the rest of my life.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin_Hutto
    Any business that has a low barrier to entry will attract "schemers" and quick buck artists. At some level, every entrepreneur is a dreamer. The key is to harness that power and create a real business. Unfortunately, many never get that far and just bounce from idea to idea hoping that the next one will make the difference.

    I was talking to a guy the other day who makes a pretty decent amount online and he lamented that he felt like he was "just making money" and not building anything. And that is the deal - to me at least.
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  • Profile picture of the author mrmanpower
    Originally Posted by BeachDude View Post

    I'm not a forum type of guy, and have only been on here a few days, but I have noticed something on here. 90% of the people in this forum are schemers:


    The reason you aren't making any money is because you are a schemer. Schemers are always trying to figure out a secret trick to make a dime, and it always fails. You need to become a marketer and stop scheming. How to tell if you are a schemer or a marketer:

    Schemer:
    • Makes Autoblogs that never get indexed
    • Makes Blogspot blogs for backlinks
    • Spins articles that get flagged for dupe content
    • Spams Twitter and gets his IP banned
    • Spams Facebook
    • Submits his sites to RSS directories using RSS Submitting software
    • Buys software & MMO products that never work to try to scheme even more
    • Spams Craigslist
    • Makes MMO products/WSO's even though he hasn't made a dime
    • Asks questions about Linkwheeling on the warrior forum
    • Uses SENuke
    • Social Bookmarks for backlinks
    • Makes Forum profiles for backlinks
    • Makes YouTube videos with his affiliate link in them
    • Does everything himself
    • Watches Anime 5 hours a day
    • If he stops scheming his income stops
    • Never spends money on advertising because deep down he believes he will lose all of his money
    • Focuses on spamming the web, and getting money from people
    Marketer:
    • Uses offline cash flow to fund online business
    • Focuses on Listing Building
    • Understands he will lose money sometimes
    • Creates MMO products & software to sell to the schemers
    • Creates great sites that build backlinks virally
    • Outsources 100% of tasks that don't fit skillset
    • Builds businesses that run themselves
    • Focuses on Volume
    • Is willing to spend money to find out what works
    • Reads marketing classics like Tested Advertising Methods, and Scientific Advertising.
    • Has a Long term approach (12 months+)
    • Pays for advertising (CPV, PPC, Media Buys, Banners, Mobile)
    • Focuses on adding value to the web, and getting compensated in the process.
    I'd like to personally challenge all of the schemers to move into the Marketer realm. It's not that you are bad people, it's that you will find so much more happiness, and make so much more money on the Marketer side. You may not make $100 by tonight, but over time you will make money, and a lot of it.

    If you don't have any money to buy ads right now, spending 10 hours a day using SENuke, posting links on Twitter, and other methods won't get you anywhere. Go get a job a Mcdonalds, work 20 hours a week, make an extra $600/month, and use that money to start advertising. Get an account with Aweber or iContact and start building a list, and email that list valuable offers and information based on what they want. Test out Facebook, Plenty of Fish, CPV, and other forms of advertising.

    Billions of dollars is exchanging hands on the internet every day, how much of that are you getting?
    I agree at some point (unless you are lucky, experienced or super good) you will be a schemer. till you graduate into a marketer. just like school not everyone graduates!
    Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi BeachDude,

      Are you sure you're not BeachMillionsDude?

      The reason you aren't making any money is because you are a schemer.
      The Schemers come out of the woodwork to defend their position.
      The reason no one takes you seriously is because you continually make incorrect assumptions and arrogant generalisations.

      When push comes to shove, I'd rather be a free-thinking schemer than someone so blinded by their worship of false idols that they're incapable of rational, independent, critical analysis.
      Signature


      Roger Davis

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      • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
        If you don't have any money to buy ads right now, spending 10 hours a day using SENuke, posting links on Twitter, and other methods won't get you anywhere. Go get a job a Mcdonalds, work 20 hours a week, make an extra $600/month, and use that money to start advertising. Get an account with Aweber or iContact and start building a list, and email that list valuable offers and information based on what they want. Test out Facebook, Plenty of Fish, CPV, and other forms of advertising.

        Billions of dollars is exchanging hands on the internet every day, how much of that are you getting?
        Real Business = Paid Traffic ... interesting ...

        So when does the Paid Advertising Scheme WSO come out?

        Cant wait to tell all my affiliates that I need to get a real biz and use their commission splits to now buy PPC ... cant be no schemer!
        Signature
        Rank Ascend Network - High PR Links / Guaranteed Rankings Increase
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  • Profile picture of the author Rsberg
    It's like a train wreck, you just can't help but look at it when you know you should look away.

    There have been so many "hater" threads lately, this one just adds to the mess. Some people just cant seem to accept that others do business differently than they do, because of this they must be doing something wrong.

    10 minutes of my life I will never get back...
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave Lianelli
    This has become a very interesting and provocative discussion.

    You should be warned that a lot of the people you define as 'schemers' are lurking at this forum. And they get out of their way to prove you're wrong.

    Though I know exactly where you're coming from and agree with you mostly. A lot of items you list in your schemers list won't ever bring permanent business!

    Take links wheels, social spamming, blog comment spamming, spinning content and autoblogging. No matter how good they're working for you... one day will come and things will turn around indefinitely!
    (Sorry, spamming sounds negative - but I just state it the way I see it; everything can be used in a good and a bad way!)

    Anyhow... take a look at Amazon, Facebook, Google or eBay. The 'big shots' of online business nowadays. They've never focussed on any of those 'schemer' things. Instead they focussed on long-term business success.

    Oh well, actually this thread is both good and bad. The good is that it will convert a few people into real marketers. The negative? Read some of the above posts...
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  • Profile picture of the author bloomingrose
    Some of the assertions here are helpful, but there is a lot of arrogance that is off putting. There seems to also be the idea that the only traffic worth having is paid traffic - that article marketing, blogging, social media, etc. are not helpful to building up a business and making money. Honestly - that is just WRONG.
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    Really, seems like a bit of a 'crap post' TBH.

    You're too into the duality model of the universe, where people are 'good' or 'bad' based on arbitrary definitions you made up.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

      Really, seems like a bit of a 'crap post' TBH.

      You're too into the duality model of the universe, where people are 'good' or 'bad' based on arbitrary definitions you made up.
      Considering we are 14 months into this thread, I'm not too sure he will see your response :rolleyes:.
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      • Profile picture of the author mosthost
        Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

        Considering we are 14 months into this thread, I'm not too sure he will see your response :rolleyes:.
        Well at least you saw it, so that's half the battle. :confused:
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        • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
          Banned
          Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

          Well at least you saw it, so that's half the battle. :confused:
          Only because I keep an eye out for opportunities to use this:

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  • Profile picture of the author Tenzho
    Please remove "Watches Anime 5 hours a day"
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    Hire Me For 3D eCover Design
    Code for a Free $5 EXTRA: WSOSPECIAL
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