Are You A Schemer Or A Marketer? (Find out here)

by 58 replies
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I'm not a forum type of guy, and have only been on here a few days, but I have noticed something on here. 90% of the people in this forum are schemers:


The reason you aren't making any money is because you are a schemer. Schemers are always trying to figure out a secret trick to make a dime, and it always fails. You need to become a marketer and stop scheming. How to tell if you are a schemer or a marketer:

Schemer:
  • Makes Autoblogs that never get indexed
  • Makes Blogspot blogs for backlinks
  • Spins articles that get flagged for dupe content
  • Spams Twitter and gets his IP banned
  • Spams Facebook
  • Submits his sites to RSS directories using RSS Submitting software
  • Buys software & MMO products that never work to try to scheme even more
  • Spams Craigslist
  • Makes MMO products/WSO's even though he hasn't made a dime
  • Asks questions about Linkwheeling on the warrior forum
  • Uses SENuke
  • Social Bookmarks for backlinks
  • Makes Forum profiles for backlinks
  • Makes YouTube videos with his affiliate link in them
  • Does everything himself
  • Watches Anime 5 hours a day
  • If he stops scheming his income stops
  • Never spends money on advertising because deep down he believes he will lose all of his money
  • Focuses on spamming the web, and getting money from people
Marketer:
  • Uses offline cash flow to fund online business
  • Focuses on Listing Building
  • Understands he will lose money sometimes
  • Creates MMO products & software to sell to the schemers
  • Creates great sites that build backlinks virally
  • Outsources 100% of tasks that don't fit skillset
  • Builds businesses that run themselves
  • Focuses on Volume
  • Is willing to spend money to find out what works
  • Reads marketing classics like Tested Advertising Methods, and Scientific Advertising.
  • Has a Long term approach (12 months+)
  • Pays for advertising (CPV, PPC, Media Buys, Banners, Mobile)
  • Focuses on adding value to the web, and getting compensated in the process.
I'd like to personally challenge all of the schemers to move into the Marketer realm. It's not that you are bad people, it's that you will find so much more happiness, and make so much more money on the Marketer side. You may not make $100 by tonight, but over time you will make money, and a lot of it.

If you don't have any money to buy ads right now, spending 10 hours a day using SENuke, posting links on Twitter, and other methods won't get you anywhere. Go get a job a Mcdonalds, work 20 hours a week, make an extra $600/month, and use that money to start advertising. Get an account with Aweber or iContact and start building a list, and email that list valuable offers and information based on what they want. Test out Facebook, Plenty of Fish, CPV, and other forms of advertising.

Billions of dollars is exchanging hands on the internet every day, how much of that are you getting?
#main internet marketing discussion forum #find #marketer #schemer
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  • I don't understand how the following are "scheming"

    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [2] replies
    • I may not be correct on all of my "Schemer" bullets, but here is the best definition I can write for an Internet Marketing Schemer:

      "One who spends all of ones time trying to get money from the web without adding any value to the web."
      • [ 2 ] Thanks
    • Did you listen to The Joker in the video?

      The things that he listed were things that he felt are more like throwing crap on a wall to see what sticks, rather than having an actual plan with planned results.

      I'm not taking any sides on this thread, just being your friendly neighborhood translator.
      • [1] reply
  • Same here, I use things from both sides so what does that make me?

    What does Anime have to do with anything?
  • Hello,

    i agree with (almost) anything here, but do NOT underestimate the power of Senuke. If you have an aged site and understand how to use it properly, it is extremely, extremely powerful.
    The same is valid for all kinds of intelligent link building, including social bookmarks.

    Do me a favor and look up some extreme niches, like weight loss.

    Examine the top sites in Google which make a KILLING obviously, and then ask yourself how they got their rankings. HINT: MOST of those sites did not get #1 for "lose weight" in natural ways
    • [1] reply
    • All these things are great, if you are hiring someone to do it for you.
  • What a negative post.
    As you said, you are new here, think of a way to be positive, it will pay off in the long run.
    From your post, it sounds as if you put your hand in an oven and got your wallet burned by the various methods you claim to be used by "schemers".
    I shouldn't mention that you are blatantly bashing products in the wrong section of the forum.
    Smoke some weed or something, whatever'll make ya feel better about life. Heck, maybe you should work at McDonald's...:rolleyes:
  • Never made any money scheming so I had to make a living marketing and promoting online.
  • Great post OP - I actually started thinking what you're saying about two weeks ago. Now I'm focused on building a quality list.
  • Banned
    Sir, I must needs do all things by my lonesome on account of financial pressures. What for I be schemer?
  • Excellent post.

    One quibble. I use online business to generate cash for
    offline non-profit work. Some of us are weird that way

    All success
    Dr.Mani
  • Hi Beachdude,

    As you say, you're new, so I'll forgive you.

    The trick of putting a negative spin on one list and a positive spin on another, we know that one. As we also know the smuggling a few bad eggs into your negative list trick, and the few obviously positives into the good list. We have seen it thousands of times.

    Yes it is simple to win over the skimmers (not referring to the above), but the people you want on-side, read things, thoroughly!

    When you generalize to the degree you have, you are more likely to irritate people than anything else, though the vast majority wont say anything.

    For instance, I don't use autoblogs, but you have irritated a large group of people by going after them. Seriously, they are a group that hold a grudge like you wouldn't believe, but largely because their antagonists take every chance possible to slip them a crafty kick.

    Even just the basic "See what sticks" theory being put down, ignores people like Einstein, who built his reputation on publishing what stuck. You cannot build a business entirely on what others are doing, because in doing so you are just one of many, and have no unique selling point.

    I would say that the definition of a schemer is exactly the same as that of an entrepreneur, albeit one with less vision and success.

    My 2c,
    Colin
    • [ 3 ] Thanks
  • Banned
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  • Banned
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  • Great post. Puts things in perspective. Thank you!
  • Who cares if you do everything yourself
  • I do everything myself and trust me it works out very well for me. It is not anyones fault if you are not a fast and creative learner. And that does not in any way make me a schemer.

    I personally hate auto blogging. In fact I have said it time and again anything that has to do with auto is non of my business.

    So believe me that list you have up there is just a joke. And for your information the best and most successful businesses were built on the bases of the theory of trying what sticks, that is what makes them unique when they stick and hence a great deal of success.

    And finally you don't even need to say that you are new, your ideas and post say it all.
  • I do everything myself and trust me it works out very well for me. It is not anyones fault if you are not a fast and creative learner. And that does not in any way make me a schemer.

    I personally hate auto blogging. In fact I have said it time and again anything that has to do with auto is non of my business.

    So believe me that list you have up there is just a joke. And for your information the best and most successful businesses were built on the bases of the theory of trying what sticks, that is what makes them unique when they stick and hence a great deal of success.

    And finally you don't even need to say that you are new, your ideas and post say it all.
  • Gee that was funny...
  • In my opinion, a "schemer", in the negative sense, is:
    •a spammer or a scammer aiming to establish a parasitic or commensal
    relationship with others, for their own benefit while the other party loses
    something of value or gains nothing of value...

    And: A "marketer", in the positive sense, is:
    •a middleman sitting between a set of benefits and people who need those
    benefits, aiming to establish a mutual relationship with others, for the benefit of everyone involved...
  • [DELETED]
  • Doing things yourself doesn't make you a schemer, it makes you frugal. There is nothing wrong with it at all. In fact, it is important to be at this point at least once so you know how to properly outsource the things you do not wish to do.

    I spend money on advertising in the form of having others post profile links and bookmark links, and they do the job I want them to do. I spend money on products to do these things myself as well.

    I do a lot myself, but of course my cash flow doesn't allow much different currently. But simply it is not that difficult to do what I need done either. The hardest part is content creation, which is also the most expensive. Labeling me as a schemer because I practice my art while being paid for it isn't greatly appreciated.

    The whole idea of spending money to find out what works is all fine and good when you have the cash flow to support it. But, labeling people who have found themselves without jobs but honestly want to do things properly as schemers isn't good either.

    I know two marketers that make a fine living using tools such as SEnuke as well. Both very predominant on this forum. While I will say that it doesn't fit into my overall business plan, it works well for them... who am I to judge?

    I think the whole debate boils down to what you are willing to do in order to further your business and what you aren't willing to do. Each person will have to make their own choices when it comes to this. Stupid lists like this shouldn't even be a factor.
    • [1] reply
    • I actually agree and disagree to some extent with a lot of the OP's points.

      I know for a fact I'm not a schemer and do things very ethically, I want a long term business that will grow with or without me and provide me the level of comfort I want.

      This however is just wrong. Plain and simple...

      I just don't get that. When I started I was flat broke, living in a room in a very undesirable area with a lot of very nasty drug addicts. I had no money. This is how many people start, with very little money.

      How can doing stuff yourself make you a schemer, which is actually a nice way of saying scammer.

      Also this is a marketer...

      What about people like me that have never sold MMO products because they've learned how to MMO in other niches?

      I have authority sites that get natural traffic and lots of returning visitors I don't pay for advertising at all and at the same time I create quality content that provides value. Am I a schemer for not advertising or a marketer for providing value?

      It's an ok post but it's a generalisation and cannot be applied across the whole forum.

      There are more than just 2 types of people in this forum.

  • Yeah... your cute.

    I happen to use SENuke, and I consider it a great piece of software. Then again that list you put up would disqualify most marketers from being anything but schemers.

    As for outsourcing... seriously?
  • Aren't alot of schemers your clients?

    "trying to figure out a secret trick to make a dime"

    Which would prove schemers make more schemers and marketers make more marketers? or more marketers and schemers ... ?

    Probably the latter.

    Interesting ideas though.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • The two lists are far from mutually exclusive.

    You will find marketers that use paid advertising also getting backlinks from forum profiles, posting youtube videos, spinning text, mashing rss feeds and submitting them.

    All they are doing is using every tool possible in their arsenal.

    I am always wary when people give their opinion and present it as fact.
    • [2] replies
    • Hi BeachDude,

      I agree with the crux of your point, which I believe to be 'build a business, not a scheme' - particularly if you plan on reducing your workload over time, while simultaneously increasing income.

      But your explanation of this point has holes in it.

      This then provokes the question -

      How is selling to the schemers adding value? It's actually doing the opposite (it's contributing to and perpetuating the lack of value provided by the schemers) -

      I also think that you're going off track with your 'adding value' point.

      The difference between someone with a viable business and a schemer has much more to do with whether someone understands and builds their business around positioning, leverage, user generated content, viral marketing, repeat sales and upselling (a business) or whether they set themselves up to make money by being a part of someone elses business -

      Amazon is a business, Amazon affiliates are schemers.

      Over time, Amazon affiliates will ultimately become extinct. Over time, Amazon will ultimately lose the need to share their income with affiliates. The business grows while the scheme becomes extinct.
      • [ 4 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
    • I agree, I listen to peoples opinions but don't like listening to them put across as facts.

      90% of the forum are schemers?

      That's pretty quick and impressive research, for a guy that joined yesterday.
      • [1] reply
  • This is a silly post. Define SEO! For example "spin content that gets flagged." If I spin it and it doesn't get flagged then I am not a schemer. Stupid post. Worthless. IMHO
  • Not sure I appreciate such a quick, and harsh judgment but I understand the point you're trying to make ..

    Schemers as you call them are those selling and / or looking for the "get rich quick" scams and most likely make up the 90% online marketer failure stat ..

    I'm sure everyone will agree that it's not easy out there for newbies ...They are constantly being bombarded with this and that offer ..It cause's overload -

    I'm learning too & slogging my way through all the crap - I'm learning alot but still have miles to go ..

    To me, it breaks down to my choice to be lazy and make fast money or work hard to achieve my immediate, short / long term goals

    I may be wrong but I think I need a both strategies to get where I want to go?

    Agree?
    Disagree?

    I'm always open to input
    Thanks!
  • I totally agree with the OP. Most people fail to understand that the best and fastest way to make money online (or even offline) is to actually create value instead of spamming facebook/twitter/youtube/craiglist/etc all day long.
    • [1] reply
    • I have done it... I have done great sites with great content. If you don´t actively promote them, not even grandma comes.

      many of the strategies mentioned as schemes, are schemes if used as the main focus. I have seen them work as part of detailed marketing campaigns, and they work pretty well.

      I am a sissie marketer, and proud. And I still use some of those techniques to promote some pages that will spread the word about my business. But once you land on my home, it is all about good quality.
  • And......

    The Schemers come out of the woodwork to defend their position. My bullet points weren't meant to be the "Definite list" of things that define a schemer or marketer, they were simply meant to give an example of things schemers "Usually" delve into.

    If I bought you an all expense paid 4 week trip to Hawaii, and you weren't allowed to take your cell phone or laptop, would your business still be around when you got back?

    If not, then you are most likely a schemer, and schemers give marketers a bad name. The main point I aimed to drive home is that we all need to move our focus on building internet assets, so that 5 years from now we still have a business.

    Here is a couple case studies for an example:

    Schemer:
    • Reads Autoblog System X, gets pumped up, & makes 100 autoblogs
    • Uses SENuke to get those sites ranked
    • Profits from adsense, makes a little money
    • 8 months later gets banned by Google & Gets sites deindexed.
    • Starts with new scheme
    • 5 years later he has no assets, and is left with the newest "Scheme"
    Marketer:
    • Hires a designer on elance to build a "How Fit Am I" survey site, that requires a questionnaire (Age, Sex, Weight, Height), and requires an email sign up to get the results of the test.
    • Launches some tests on Google Adwords, and Split tests his site using Google Website Optimizer, Clicktale, or crazyegg to boost EPC, and conversion rates.
    • Scales advertising through media buys, PPC, & Mobile Advertising
    • 5 years later he has an email list of over 400,000, and is profiting over $300,000 a month from the list with targeted CPA offers.
    I am sure that Jonathon Mizel, who thanked my OP, is using SENuke as we speak to build an autoblog.
    • [2] replies
    • So you are actually talking about doing marketing as a hobby or as a business...

      yes, when you do it as a business you are eventually able to fire yourself.

      It depends on the niche though. In some niches and business models, you can be out of sight.

      But since the upcoming of social media, it is more common to have people demanding to see the person they are giving their money to. And when you build a business around your person, then things get interesting if you fire yourself.

      you know? I have seen this discussion many times, and most who say what you are saying haven´t really walk the walk to make a site rank, to make the numbers close, to create the business and keep it going...

      Maybe you have, congrats in that case!

      Sandra
    • There are a lot of bold statements from someone so new to this forum. Also these are your opinions, and if we don't fit in your particular ethical checklist there were... schemers?

      Yeah, I use SENuke, and I've never had a site sandboxed. Also just because a famous marketer "thanks" your post, just means he agree's with your opinion, it's hardly enough reason for people to change their entire online strategy.
  • As to the OP...

    NEWS FLASH:

    Schemers make money, too!

    The only real difference, IMHO, is that they have to work MUCH harder to keep making money.

    The schemers can do some of the things on your Marketer's list, and vice-versa.

    Don't misunderstand me, though, I think schemers got it all wrong. However, I think you're over-simplifying and mixing up your bullet points. All in all, I think your main point is a good one.

    All the best,
    Michael
  • beachdude - not sure i agree with all your bullet points, but I get the overall message you're sending. I am only about 4 months or so into IM and at first I thought I could be slick and try to be a "schemer" but it didnt take long to realize this was false hope. If I really was serious about making this a career, then I could not rely on "scheming" the rest of my life.
  • Any business that has a low barrier to entry will attract "schemers" and quick buck artists. At some level, every entrepreneur is a dreamer. The key is to harness that power and create a real business. Unfortunately, many never get that far and just bounce from idea to idea hoping that the next one will make the difference.

    I was talking to a guy the other day who makes a pretty decent amount online and he lamented that he felt like he was "just making money" and not building anything. And that is the deal - to me at least.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • I agree at some point (unless you are lucky, experienced or super good) you will be a schemer. till you graduate into a marketer. just like school not everyone graduates!
    • [1] reply
    • Hi BeachDude,

      Are you sure you're not BeachMillionsDude?

      The reason no one takes you seriously is because you continually make incorrect assumptions and arrogant generalisations.

      When push comes to shove, I'd rather be a free-thinking schemer than someone so blinded by their worship of false idols that they're incapable of rational, independent, critical analysis.
      • [ 5 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
  • It's like a train wreck, you just can't help but look at it when you know you should look away.

    There have been so many "hater" threads lately, this one just adds to the mess. Some people just cant seem to accept that others do business differently than they do, because of this they must be doing something wrong.

    10 minutes of my life I will never get back...
  • This has become a very interesting and provocative discussion.

    You should be warned that a lot of the people you define as 'schemers' are lurking at this forum. And they get out of their way to prove you're wrong.

    Though I know exactly where you're coming from and agree with you mostly. A lot of items you list in your schemers list won't ever bring permanent business!

    Take links wheels, social spamming, blog comment spamming, spinning content and autoblogging. No matter how good they're working for you... one day will come and things will turn around indefinitely!
    (Sorry, spamming sounds negative - but I just state it the way I see it; everything can be used in a good and a bad way!)

    Anyhow... take a look at Amazon, Facebook, Google or eBay. The 'big shots' of online business nowadays. They've never focussed on any of those 'schemer' things. Instead they focussed on long-term business success.

    Oh well, actually this thread is both good and bad. The good is that it will convert a few people into real marketers. The negative? Read some of the above posts...
  • Some of the assertions here are helpful, but there is a lot of arrogance that is off putting. There seems to also be the idea that the only traffic worth having is paid traffic - that article marketing, blogging, social media, etc. are not helpful to building up a business and making money. Honestly - that is just WRONG.
  • Really, seems like a bit of a 'crap post' TBH.

    You're too into the duality model of the universe, where people are 'good' or 'bad' based on arbitrary definitions you made up.
    • [1] reply
    • Banned
      Considering we are 14 months into this thread, I'm not too sure he will see your response :rolleyes:.
      • [1] reply
  • Please remove "Watches Anime 5 hours a day"
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