Product Launches Bombing

Am I dreaming or was this Eben Pagan a re-run of an earlier product? I thought he'd already had a run with the Wealth product.

I can see that the poster of this is not in UK!!

Yawwwwwnnnn .... Please wake me when its over. We're all tired, tired of being $2k lighter in the wallet - reading about crap they dont even do themselves.

Ohhhh wait .. will they run out of bytes on their hard drive and this digital product wont ever be availed to the world again? In that case I better rush to my paypal acount!

I just think people are a little smarter now and realise that for $2000 you could hire a whole lot of outsourcers to effectively run a business for you. The software system though will potentially do quite well because it's offering something relatively fresh in theory but I seriously doubt there's gonna be much success with it from a user's point of view. No software is gonna give you that 'creative spark' needed to come up with blockbuster apps.

LOL...

I originally released the very first version of
Product Launch Formula in October 2005 and the cat
was officially out of the bag... before that I had
shared my stuff with a few friends like John
Reese, Frank Kern, and Yanik Silver... but October
2005 was the first time I taught it publicly.

And guess what... lots of people started doing
launches, and various other people started
proclaiming the death of product launches by
December 2005. In other words, it took about six
weeks for people to say product launches were
"done"...

Ummm. Not exactly.

This is the reality... the big launches keep on
rolling along and doing just fine. Why do you
think people keep doing them?

Here's the OTHER reality. For every big launch you
see in the "make money online" niche, there are
hundreds of others in all kinds of other niches
that you never hear about - because you aren't on
the lists in those markets.

For example, how about "dog agility" or
"scrapbooking" or "tapping"? You probably missed
those launches... and they were all SUPER
successful.

Now let's get back to the "make money online"
market... because that's something of a spectator
sport here. The deal is that in the "make money
online" market there are a half-dozen launches a
week. And it's rare when there aren't at least two
MAJOR launches by "big dog" marketers going at
the same time.

That means it's harder to cut through the noise.
You have to be better than the average marketer,
and you have to be more creative with your
prelaunch, and you have to work harder to get JVs
onboard... and ABOVE ALL you need to have a great
offer - what I call a CRUSHING OFFER.

NOT an "Xtreme Ninja Blackbox Traffic Autopilot"
piece of crap.

The OP talks about an affiliate only selling two
copies of a product he/she promoted. And the OP
guessed at the affiliates list size. Of course, we
don't have a clue what the list size REALLY IS.

And we don't know what the affiliate did to
promote it (ie, mail each piece of prelaunch or
just on "cart open" day?)... or who else was
promoting it (what kind of competition was
there?)... or how well his list matched the
offer... or how responsive his list was... or how
fresh the list was... or how good the affiliate
copy was (did the affiliate cut-and-paste the
swipe copy, or did he/she craft a compelling hook
that tied into the launch?)... etc etc etc

ALL of those things (and many more) make a huge
impact on how an affiliate will perform.

I've seen an affiliate with a list of about 10,000
beat affiliates with of 350,000 or more... because
he had a warm list and a good bonus and a great
promotional strategy.

Now the idea of being "top 10" with 2 sales is
another matter. That's the sign of a pretty weak
launch (by my standards), but let's break it
down a bit...

When someone says they were top 10, that usually
means they were #9 or #10.

And if we can assume they were #9 or #10 for SALES
(not leads) and that was FINAL standings (and not
interim standings)... and they had two sales, then
that means the total sales were *probably*
somewhere in the 75 to 150 units.

(Trust me, I've seen the inside of a LOT of
leaderboards. Usually the top 5 will sell over
half the total units, and things drop off pretty fast
from there.)

Whether 75-150 units is good or bad depends on
the price point and the expectations.

OK... moving along... yes, Eben did fall short of
his goal of $2 million for Self Made Wealth. He
ONLY did $1.75 million. Bummer... better call the
suicide prevention line. NOT.

How many people here would like a $1.75MM
product launch "bomb"?

I wrote a blog post where I broke down some of the
stuff going on with that launch... and why I think
it started slowly, and what Eben did to fix it.
You can see the blog post here:

The Product Launch Parachute


(MODS: not sure if it's cool to put that link
here. Nothing for sale anywhere on my blog. But
if it's not cool, just kill that link.)

One other thing that nearly everyone forgets is
that the benefits of a successful launch go WAY
beyond the initial dollars you pull in. In fact,
Eben could literally take the money he made from
this launch... put it in a paper bag and BURN
IT... and he'll come out way ahead.

First, he had a major list build - on the order of
TENS of thousands. Second, he added a lot of
buyers to his list. Third, he had massive social
proof and positioning with all kinds of affiliates
mailing their lists about how awesome Eben is.
Fourth, he built big time momentum in his entire
organization. Fifth, he was able to do all kinds
of testing and pull in lots of data about the
market...

I could keep going, but you get the idea. I've
talked about the "Launch Echo" before... it's very
real. The benefits of a single launch can be huge.

Here's an example... in my opinion, right now
before your very eyes, Trey Smith is creating a
business that will do tens of millions of dollars
in the coming years - and he's doing that with
a product launch. It's not actually a product
launch - it's a BUSINESS LAUNCH.

OK, enough said... you get my point.


- Jeff

Yes, hats off to Jeff - after all, we are speculating - he has been there.... for a long while.

Curtis and Ian,

Thanks for the clarification... I had no idea who the marketer in question was or what launch this was about. It's sorta funny that I used Trey's launch as an example in my post.

Of course, now that I know who we're talking about, I have to be careful what I say.

However, here's a few facts that I know for sure:

1. The launch just opened yesterday... all data is incomplete at this point.

2. The latest affiliate standings were only for the first 24 hours. I guarantee that it will take a lot more than 2 sales to remain in the top 10.

3. Trey's product is selling... I can see it in my affiliate stats, and I talked to Trey a few hours ago. If people want to talk about launches that are bombing... then this isn't the launch to talk about.


- Jeff

Reading the thread is a beautiful thing...

Bruce, I didn't hear him defending anyone's conversion rate. He pointed out a lot of things that could contribute to a low conversion rate, which is very different from "defending" anything.

Aside from that, are there specific statements of fact in his comments that you'd like to dispute, or are you going to rely on the "Denial is proof" argument? That one is part of a fun pair, often used by people who want to appeal to those who aren't thinking clearly. The other partner in the duo is, "He's not denying it, so it must be true." Both are less-than-useful approaches to sensible discussion. Maybe. It would be an interesting test, that's for sure.


Paul

seeing as how kelly felix owned clickbank's top spot for like 2 years back in the day I'd be willing to bet he knows a thing or two about affiliate and internet marketing.

also being a rich jerk customer back then I only received one promo email ever (stompernet) so he never burned his list then, and being a BTF member now, I also know he doesn't burn that list either.

if he only made 2 sales that's crazy because trey's system looks great. maybe it is a lie and he wants to sell the **** out of George brown's gsniper 2? and that's why he's offering the same bonus for that as well?

who know's I don't but whether he made 2 sales or not on the software system (thus far) i bet he kills it on gsniper 2... cuz the bonus is pretty sick...

either way whether people are tired of 2k products or not remains unproven either way. but I am sure this is not the death of IM in any way.

If you follow the link (that sells nothing) you'll see the first thing I mention is "The Death of.." title is a wink from me to those ridiculous headlines.

Actually, I find people claim the "death of..." a strategy or method when they have a vested interest in convincing you it is so because they are selling an opposing strategy or method.

I don't know if any new technologies were developed for the Harry potter series but I do know studio accounting is "fuzzy" at best.

The studio wants the movie to lose as much money as possible on paper because it lessens or eliminates the amount of royalties they pay.

This is easily accomplished with large studios who are part of an even larger conglomerate. They can pay one of the umbrella companies a very large sum (say for advertising/marketing) and significantly reduce the movies take with the stroke of a pen even though that same service could be sourced cheaper from outside contractor.

According to the studio the Lord Of The Rings Movies, which made upwards of 6 billion, lost money also. Law suits were required to "find" the money the accountants hid to pay the Tolkien Family Trust and Peter Jackson what they were rightfully owed.

This happens all the time in Hollywood. If you're a big name with deep resources like Jackson you can fight it but many new producers, directors etc. grin and bear it.

Exactly. Very valid point. Yet they still bombed and sucked because they lost money in the box office haha.

It's obvious that we didn't have the full context to the "2 sales" statement that was made. Upon further examination, this is only the second day of the launch, and it is far from over. In addition to that, the leaderboard positions and also sales figures constantly change until the very end, so it's a little premature to come to the conclusion that the launch "bombed" - this smacks of prejudice and a very skewed opinion of these high-ticket launches.

Giani, How do you know how many happen outside this market? Or how big they are?

Leaping to some tall conclusions there, Superman.


Paul

Have you seen the numbers people are pulling down with the $37 CB launches. They are giving away f'n Ferrari's in the PRELAUNCH - on MMO launches.
Ya'll here on the WF may be sick of launches, but the general public ain't - and they are buying em up.

Shannon, If he does it by distorting or misrepresenting facts, that's not marketing. It's lying. "Puff up?" As I understand the term, that is a direct allegation of deliberate misrepresentation of the truth. Or, in the common parlance, ya just called him a liar.

Either that, or y'all mean somethin' real different by "puff up" than I do. That's certainly possible. When they're being unfairly misrepresented? Yep. Guilty as charged. And when they're being called to task for something they actually did, I'm the first one to shut up and let them take their licks. It's not common among the people I consider friends, but it's happened.

In case you haven't noticed, I'm also often the first one to come in swinging when someone unfairly attacks people I don't even know. And, on occasion, people for whom I have a strong personal dislike.

If I don't know, I'll ask if the person making allegations has facts to back up their assertions. You've probably seen me pose that question more than once.

If you find it odd that I treat my friends as well as I treat strangers and people I dislike, that's a problem. But it's not MY problem. You have exactly zero idea of what I'm told and what I see, sir. There isn't a soul alive who has.

Are launches slipping? Some, certainly.

Are there a lot of garbage products being released in this space? Of course. That's always been true of any opportunity sector.

Nothing new there.


Paul

Shannon, I am not spinning anything. I'm addressing your points as I understand them. What you are saying may not mean "lying" to you, but it does to me. Seriously? You've never experienced different interpretations of a colloquialism?

I have never heard the phrase "puff up" used to mean anything like the examples you've just given. Not once, prior to your post.


Paul

People do tend to see the world through their own filters, but what I was referring to was a caution against taking a position on a matter based on only one side of the story and/or on incomplete data.

One thing I've noticed over the years here is that when someone makes a persuasive post, whether it's factually correct or not, there is often a rush of agreement. This agreement is often because the argument made speaks to the person's own preconceptions and biases, rather than because the person has given the matter any serious thought. In other words, it resonates emotionally.

This emotional agreement often prevents a person from seeing intellectual red flags that might cast doubt on one's initial reflexive agreement.

The reason I said the thread was instructive is because it starts off with one perspective, which drew agreement, until another perspective was offered. Suddenly the agreed upon truth had a completely different perspective.

The moral of my caution is not to make snap judgments, but to look for other perspectives that may help us paint a more complete picture. I would rather base my reality on the most complete perspective I can uncover, rather than on fast, but often limited, conclusions.

That is a fair point and I concede to the fact that I jumped to conclusions on what the definition actually meant. I did not know it was used negatively most of the time.

I just believe it is important to point out that even though Jeff makes a great augment on why product launches are awesome, he has a vested interest in what you believe. And that should be noted.

I also said, because you are friends with him it "could" mean you have a biased view and that should also be noted.

If that comes off negatively that is not how I mean it.

Shannon

mgtarheel,

What I'm doing, as I've been explaining to you via PM, is enforcing a policy that's been in place a long time. There are sites we don't allow links to. We also don't allow bashing of those sites or their owners here. Their beliefs are their business. Keeping the conflict that comes with those discussions out of this site is ours.

We have quite enough conflicts of our own.

Shannon,

I believe you mean what you're saying. I also have a very different read on it than what you're suggesting to be your intent.

If your words convey a meaning that's different than your intent, that's a communication problem. I'm going to address the meaning I see as being conveyed.


Paul

Because you are continuing to do what you were told is not allowed. Just in a less direct way.

Edit: I also deleted the posts bashing the gentleman you were referring to.


Paul

I like Jeff Walker a lot and PLF has worked wonders for my business over the years, but I think you've got a great point.

On the WSO forum here I remember back in 2007/08 it was pretty typical for WSO's to sell for higher price points such as $67, $97, $147 etc

In the last couple of years however, there's been a major shift and now even a $37 WSO is considered expensive.

Although many WSO sellers claim they still make just as much money, because of the increased number of sales at the lower price points.

And if the Top level marketers prices dropped where do you think the price points would end up for the competing products?

If PLF went to $197 how much room would there be to create a competing product from someone with none of the credentials Jeff has?

By cutting prices the Top level marketers really would be stifling competition

I see a hell of a lot people complaining and saying they are tired of the way the gurus sell their products.

They are tired of seeing unbelievable income claims, selling pipedreams to where the customer only has to push two buttons and their bank accounts will explode. All the hype in the sales letters is turning people off and they are screaming for something different.

Give it to them and you'll be fine. This is what I'm doing and it's working just fine so far.

Cheers

Bruce,

If you'd quit worrying about other people's businesses you might have a chance to quit being such a crotchety old man.

Why are you so worried about what other people do?

I wonder if you ever smile and enjoy yourself?

You should go fishing more often man.

I disagree with this a bit. I think that there is an ego thing attached to this for many.

One thing to consider is that without having an in depth conversation with Jeff in person it's hard to know exactly what it is that he wants out of his business, and where he is making the most money.

An example: I know that he also runs pretty big launches for other people in the Real Estate Market, he's actually partners with one of the big guns over there. I don't know how much of Greg's business he owns, I've heard half -but I've never talked to either of them myself. I do know from talking to many of Greg's affiliates that he has a mid seven figure per year biz doing his launches.

I've done product launches for other people before, it's very lucrative business to get in -but hard to generate the leads too.

If I was ever going to release an IM course myself the only reason i would do it would be for lead generation to get in on other people's established business for a %. If that was your model you'd want your product to be as expensive as possible because that premium you've already established for yourself is also going to carry over to what you can charge your new partner/client.

I think you got this bit wrong though Bruce...

I have been around many a conversation with people bragging they got Franks latest product release.

But i have to say then coming out with high ticket items makes selling at the 297 price point so much easier for others.

Now personally my businees model has always been free on the front end and make the money on upsells and login offers so I appreciate there are other ways of doing business

I just dont see how there way is any better or worse than mine its just a busines strategy, so it follows i cant for the life of me see why people bother to get bent out of shape over it.

Bob,

I doubt they'd change much. Look at hard cover books. The really good ones in a field aren't that much more expensive than the dross. When you remove the price barrier, people tend to focus more on what they want right at the moment.

Overall, I think a general drop in pricing of the higher end stuff would have a real impact, but it would be more on the quality people expected, rather than pushing everything down in price. "How to" stuff would still sell, even if it's very narrowly focused, but it would have to deliver the goods. People would have to be able to read it and actually do the thing they wanted to learn.

An opinion on how the overall market would respond that's based on the WSO section isn't sound analysis. The factors that drive that market are not shared with the general market for these kinds of products.


Paul

As the Original Poster of this thread...WOW!

Let me add a few things.

I have no idea of the quality of the product that this thread was started about. I even assume it is a good product.

I always had my own feelings that the high ticket product launch (especially in the "how to make money online) would decline due to a number of factors.

The email that inspired me to start this thread - that I talked about in the original post - had a headline of "Well that didn't work" - which is pretty self explanatory

So when you say things like, "it is early yet", and "that's how all launches go" with a huge discrepency between 1 and 10 in the affiliate rankings, I was not going on my own hunch or assumptions, but what was stated in an email from someone who participates as a super affiliate for these launches.

I found it very interesting and refreshing to hear someone on the inside give hard sales numbers and actually admit that the launch was not going well.

Note: That doesn't mean I was wishing anything bad for the people launching the product or hoping for failure. I don't know them and that would be a pretty crappy thing to wish on someone.

The email admitted other things as well.

In my experience, this is never done. Everything is always great, business is always the best it has ever been, etc. To hear someone mention the disappointment of this launch and another recent high ticket launch was fascinating and I wanted to comment on it.

Personally, I do think it is worth testing a significantly lower price point. Especially without things like a live event, etc.

If a lower price point would lead to more sales, if high ticket launches continually decline, the very high ticket launches will slowly fade out.

The market will fix itself. It always does.