What's the Catch with Listwire.com?

Peter May

14 years ago

There is a more extensive thread here http://www.warriorforum.com/internet...-listwire.html

Peter

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enSo

14 years ago

The only catch could be that they gather data or even mail your subscribers. I'm not saying they do. I'm saying they could. Not much you can do to check for that.

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Gary_The_Ace 14 years ago

Originally Posted by enSo

The only catch could be that they gather data or even mail your subscribers. I'm not saying they do. I'm saying they could. Not much you can do to check for that.

So skeptical... no, we don't send mail to your subscribers. No one in their right mind would sign up for a service that does this, and I've been around more than long enough that I'd like to think my reputation speaks for itself.

-Gary
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AndrewStark

14 years ago

Probably the best free service about.

Totally love the co-registation, but I would only use it for building a free list rather than a buyers list. It does have a few little quirks that benefit Gary, but then that's why he's not charging you to use it.

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marcuslim

14 years ago

There's no catch. ListWire really is free. Yes, there is a OTO when you sign up to ListWire, but this OTO is not about upgrading your free ListWire account to a pro account or anything like that, but rather it's just an offer related to list building.

Emails you send do not contain ads, other than the 'powered by listwire' footer, which is what you find in most paid autoresponder services anyway.

ListWire offers more than just the basics. It has built-in Twitter functionality, list replication, merge fields and a very unique co-op list-building + traffic building system. All this at zero cost!

Do check out ListWire, it's the best FREE autoresponder out there. Not a gimmick, not hype - check it out for yourself!

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Marcus Lim
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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by timyang

Emails you send do not contain ads, other than the 'powered by listwire' footer, which is what you find in most paid autoresponder services anyway.

You may find it in "most paid autoresponder services". I certainly don't.

And that's more than just a "footer", by the way: it's a live link, and if people click on it, they'll see that you're using a free autoresponder service. How professional does that look?

Have you tested the deliverability of ListWire, compared with Aweber, on a like-for-like basis?

How do you feel about entrusting the security of your lists in the long term to a business model providing a free service? Do you think that possibly paying for a longer-established, commercial service operating on a monthly fee basis might provide greater security for your single most important business asset?

I could go on ... :rolleyes:

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marcuslim

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

You may find it in "most paid autoresponder services". I certainly don't.

And that's more than just a "footer", by the way: it's a live link, and if people click on it, they'll see that you're using a free autoresponder service. How professional does that look?

Have you tested the deliverability of ListWire, compared with Aweber, on a like-for-like basis?

How do you feel about entrusting the security of your lists in the long term to a business model providing a free service? Do you think that possibly paying for a longer-established, commercial service operating on a monthly fee basis might provide greater security for your single most important business asset?

I could go on ... :rolleyes:

The live link is the same thing that services like iContact, InfusionSoft and many other paid services have as well, the only difference is, ListWire is free.

I have actually tested both Aweber and ListWire. Yes, Aweber does have features that ListWire does not - most notable being the nice template designer for opt-in forms. But as for deliverability of the emails themselves, ListWire actually gets messages through to ALL of the four major email service providers. The same cannot be said of Aweber.

As to whether or not ListWire is viable for commercial purposes, consider that Gary Ambrose (creator of ListWire) uses it for his own email campaigns. So he stands by his product and I don't really have a problem when I get his emails, knowing that even though ListWire is free, it is also reliable.

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Marcus Lim
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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

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marcuslim 14 years ago

Thanks Alexa for bringing it up. I've been testing out ListWire for a while and it's good to be able to compare some of the pros and cons of a free vs paid autoresponder service.
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Jeff Henshaw

14 years ago

The live link is the same thing that services like iContact, InfusionSoft and many other paid services have as well, the only difference is, ListWire is free.

I would be rather disgruntled if I were using a paid service that placed live links in my mailings that took my readers elsewhere. Thank goodness I have never subscribed to either of the above 'services'.

Just my thoughts,

Jeff.

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Frank Donovan

14 years ago

Leaving aside the pros and cons of entrusting your most prized asset to a free service, I find it astonishing that in a forum full of marketers, so few seem to be grasping the monetization potential of this venture.

Everyone signing up to the service to build their list also constitutes - oh, what's that thing? Oh yes - a list!

That's a list of known list owners.

How much do you think it might be worth to have access to thousands of list owners (over 10,000 strong as of last September) where you know exactly how many subscribers there are in each owner's list and the type of markets they're in?

Do you suppose Gary Ambrose is going to be scratching his head wondering where to find potential JV partners or a target market for any future email-related products?

Methinks he knows what he's doing.

Frank

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leesr

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

Leaving aside the pros and cons of entrusting your most prized asset to a free service, I find it astonishing that in a forum full of marketers, so few seem to be grasping the monetization potential of this venture.

Everyone signing up to the service to build their list also constitutes - oh, what's that thing? Oh yes - a list!

That's a list of known list owners.

How much do you think it might be worth to have access to thousands of list owners (over 10,000 strong as of last September) where you know exactly how many subscribers there are in each owner's list and the type of markets they're in?

Do you suppose Gary Ambrose is going to be scratching his head wondering where to find potential JV partners or a target market for any future email-related products?

Methinks he knows what he's doing.

Frank

Actually he's admitted and explained this to ListWire members.
I have an account.
(Also Imnica).

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marcuslim

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeff Henshaw

I would be rather disgruntled if I were using a paid service that placed live links in my mailings that took my readers elsewhere. Thank goodness I have never subscribed to either of the above 'services'.

Just my thoughts,

Jeff.

On the upside, you can have the live link as your ListWire affiliate link, so when you refer others to sign up, you get a commission when they purchase the OTO.

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Gary_The_Ace 14 years ago

Originally Posted by timyang

On the upside, you can have the live link as your ListWire affiliate link, so when you refer others to sign up, you get a commission when they purchase the OTO.

Actually, this is the default, and can't be changed... the link is always your referral link.

-Gary
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J.M.Wilson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

You may find it in "most paid autoresponder services". I certainly don't.

And that's more than just a "footer", by the way: it's a live link, and if people click on it, they'll see that you're using a free autoresponder service. How professional does that look?

Have you tested the deliverability of ListWire, compared with Aweber, on a like-for-like basis?

How do you feel about entrusting the security of your lists in the long term to a business model providing a free service? Do you think that possibly paying for a longer-established, commercial service operating on a monthly fee basis might provide greater security for your single most important business asset?

I could go on ... :rolleyes:

This is the typical small minded mentality we face when talking to marketers who only market to other marketers.

I mean, let's take a person setting up an autoresponder sequence to build a list in the acne removal niche.

How many, if any at all, of these poor acne sufferers are going to know what an autoresponder is let alone know about the person sending the emails using a free autoresponder service?

They won't care... they don't have the first idea about it... to them it's just another email.

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marcuslim 14 years ago

We seem to be skeptical of anything that is free, thinking there must be a catch, but it strikes me that we use software and services that are free without making too much of a fuss. So for instance, take Wordpress (free) that runs on Apache Web Server (free) which runs on Linux (free). Why is it that when it comes to an autoresponder service like ListWire, we immediately become suspicious just because it is free? Just something to think about...
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Gary_The_Ace

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

You may find it in "most paid autoresponder services". I certainly don't.

And that's more than just a "footer", by the way: it's a live link, and if people click on it, they'll see that you're using a free autoresponder service. How professional does that look?

Have you tested the deliverability of ListWire, compared with Aweber, on a like-for-like basis?

How do you feel about entrusting the security of your lists in the long term to a business model providing a free service? Do you think that possibly paying for a longer-established, commercial service operating on a monthly fee basis might provide greater security for your single most important business asset?

I could go on ... :rolleyes:

Actually Alexa, the same footer is seen in email from InfusionSoft, iContact, ConstantContact, and many more... and yes, it's a live link, just like it is in the other services.

As for delivery rates, go ahead and test... I'd put our delivery rates up there with the big boys, and since we're 100% double-optin only, we're not going to end up with anyone on any of our hosted lists receiving mail they didn't sign up for.

In terms of trusting us, hey, that's up to you... but do people trust their business to the organic listings in Google? (totally free) Do people trust their traffic generation to videos on YouTube? (again, totally free) And what about article writing, I'm pretty sure that EzineArticles is free... the same goes for WordPress, Flickr, and hundreds of other free services now floating around that many consider critical to the success of their online business.

I'm also no newbie, I've been around this space since 1998, and was one of the first 100 or so members of the Warrior Forum... ListWire isn't going anywhere, and neither am I.

This also wasn't a service we just threw out there, it has been in the works officially since December of 2005... yes, December of 2005. If anyone has the original Butterfly Marketing course, listen to the interview I did with Mike Filsaime for that release... at the very end of that interview, I mention ListWire, by name, and that interview was recorded in December of 2005.

I didn't release this on a whim, and it wasn't released without thinking about how it could be maintained over the long term. It's currently hosted at the only tier 1 datacenter in the US with connectivity to all major backbones, with servers in 2 datacenters, including email specific appliances that power some of the biggest email infrastructures currently online.

In short, it's a solid service... and more importantly, it has my name on it. That may not mean much to you, but it means a hell of a lot to me. It's not going anywhere, period.

-Gary Ambrose

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affiliateprogramindex

14 years ago

also i think sometimes things start out 100 percent one way, with the intention of shifting another direction...

look at facebook and the privacy issue.

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Gary_The_Ace

14 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliateprogramindex

also i think sometimes things start out 100 percent one way, with the intention of shifting another direction...

look at facebook and the privacy issue.

We're not moving to a paid model... I already run a paid autoresponder service, it's called EmailAces, and has been in business since 2003.

As I said in another response to this thread, List Wire isn't going anywhere, and wasn't thrown together on a whim. Many people on this forum may not know me by name, but I can tell you one thing, the owner of the forum, and the people who have been around the longest certainly do.

-Gary

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Ouroboros

14 years ago

Listwire has its pros and cons...it's free...that's a pro.

The "dashboard" or whatever you call it when you get inside, is confusing. There are no good faq's stuff to help you learn to use it, it has been in beta for god knows how long so there's no help to amount to anything.

You CAN offer your advertisement as part of that thing that comes up on the confirmation page, but it took me a while to find that because, like I said, no documentation. I actually got some backlinks from that somehow, but I have no idea why.

My main Bitch is this. IF you get an email from someone using Listwire and you Opt Out, you just lost your account. And good luck getting it back!

My personal opinion is that Gary is too arrogant and secretive about his service (search for Listwire to see the conversations), and until he stops using it for a 20 minute lead-in video and starts treating it as an autoresponder, I would not recommend it.

Steve Marsh

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marcuslim 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ouroboros

My main Bitch is this. IF you get an email from someone using Listwire and you Opt Out, you just lost your account. And good luck getting it back!

I'm not sure what you mean by this...can you clarify?
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Gary_The_Ace

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ouroboros

Listwire has its pros and cons...it's free...that's a pro.

The "dashboard" or whatever you call it when you get inside, is confusing. There are no good faq's stuff to help you learn to use it, it has been in beta for god knows how long so there's no help to amount to anything.

You CAN offer your advertisement as part of that thing that comes up on the confirmation page, but it took me a while to find that because, like I said, no documentation. I actually got some backlinks from that somehow, but I have no idea why.

My main Bitch is this. IF you get an email from someone using Listwire and you Opt Out, you just lost your account. And good luck getting it back!

My personal opinion is that Gary is too arrogant and secretive about his service (search for Listwire to see the conversations), and until he stops using it for a 20 minute lead-in video and starts treating it as an autoresponder, I would not recommend it.

Steve Marsh

Hey Steve,

I'm sorry you find the "Dashboard" confusing, but we've been hearing the opposite from the overwhelming part of our membership, and the site is overloaded with FAQ's too. Each page has a short description of how it works, which can then be expanded for even more information if you'd like it. Then each and every form field, on every single page of the entire site, has about a 2 paragraph explanation of what it's used for, in many cases, including examples of how to use it.

We're working on making those a little more obvious, as they're being missed by a lot of people, but if you are a member... just click on the name of any form field, and you'll see the help section expand.

At this point we're offering the majority of our support through our member's only forum, which is clearly explained within the website itself... that said, if you don't ask a question on the forum, or take the time to take a look around, you could easily something.

Here's the thing... we need to balance the needs of the brand new user with absolutely no marketing experience at all, with those of more advanced marketers who have been building lists for years, and while some people think we're offering too much help, there are others who think we're offering too little. You just can't please everyone... we'd love to, but it's just not possible.

In terms of a user manual, or guide, we actually do have that available through the forum... it was written by a user of List Wire, and was so good that we recommended it to all of our users rather than creating one of our own. It's constantly updated, and as you'd expect, it's totally free as well...

Finally, yes, there's an OTO video when you join the site... that's not a secret, and honestly, I can't see how a marketer would be upset, or even surprised, that there would be some type of offer made on a website that's totally free to join.

The fact that there's so much discussion about the service already (just search the forum), shows me that we're doing the right thing, and this service is something the market has wanted to become a reality for a very long time...

Oh... guess that "finally" up there was a bit premature.

As for me being too "arrogant", I'll take it... I call it confidence myself, but I've been known to rub people the wrong way, and that's not likely to change.

On the "secretive" part, I can only imagine you're referring to a few past threads where I've said that I'm not going to outline the monetization plan for ListWire in excruciating detail... that's not going to change either. If you take a look at the site for more than 5 minutes, it's pretty clear how, and where we're making our money though...

Now to wrap up... Steve, this is directed at you in particular...

If you find the dashboard confusing, that's fine, but why so harsh? There's a huge difference between saying, "I find it confusing, and didn't think there was enough help", and what you said.

This service may not be for you, but I'd hate to see your negative attitude and post turn people off of using the service, when it could be just what they're looking for...

-Gary

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Gary_The_Ace

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ouroboros

My main Bitch is this. IF you get an email from someone using Listwire and you Opt Out, you just lost your account. And good luck getting it back!

Steve Marsh

Not correct... if you opt-out from the main, List Wire list, after seeing multiple warnings that your account will be closed, then your account will be closed. We make this very, VERY clear...

This isn't without warning, and it's actually quite a process to close the account. There's no way to close an account on "accident"... you have to select the account, check a box, click on a form button, and confirm via an alert window.

And that said, we've re-opened accounts that people claimed were "accidentally" closed if they contacted us...

We don't keep the data on file forever though, and I'd hope you wouldn't expect us to. I know that for me, personally, if I close an account somewhere... I want them to remove my data from their service. That's the way we do things... we keep the data for a little while, then it's removed from the service permanently.

-Gary

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ExRat 14 years ago

Hi Gary,

As for me being too "arrogant", I'll take it... I call it confidence myself, but I've been known to rub people the wrong way, and that's not likely to change.

it seems as though you have some kind of vendetta

Clearly arrogant (which I think is good/imperative in business/marketing) but playing the victim at the same time? (Not so good...)
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- Gary_The_Ace 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ExRat
  
  Hi Gary,
  
  Clearly arrogant (which I think is good/imperative in business/marketing) but playing the victim at the same time? (Not so good...)
  
  LOL. Look back at this thread, and look at the negative posts... if you notice a trend in who posted them, let me know.
  
  I'm not playing the victim, just wanting to know why someone seems hell bent on turning this thread negative.
  
  -Gary
  
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  ExRat 14 years ago
  
  Hi Gary,
  
  just wanting to know why someone seems hell bent on turning this thread negative
  
  In my experience, my arrogance tends to attract that kind of response like a magnet. But conversely, when I'm really nice and careful not to appear too arrogant, it has the same effect because people misread it as weakness. Hence I become a 'victim' of forced-arrogance because getting heat for being too nice really sucks.
  
  Regardless, I find these reality-TV-style live PR exercises educational, fun and interesting and couldn't resist the tease on the vendetta thing. But it's clear that you do what you do very well and with adequate aplomb.
  
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  MarketingVet09 14 years ago
  
  I never knew I would unintentionally make such an entertaining thread.
  
  Thanks everyone for the information and theater.
  
  Thanks
  
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Ouroboros

14 years ago

Tim,

I'm not really too sure myself, but shortly after I used the obligatory "I don't want to receive anymore emails from this person" opportunity on another List wire subscriber, my account was closed and I tried to open it again and all I got was emails from Gary.

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Gary_The_Ace

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ouroboros

Tim,

I'm not really too sure myself, but shortly after I used the obligatory "I don't want to receive anymore emails from this person" opportunity on another List wire subscriber, my account was closed and I tried to open it again and all I got was emails from Gary.

Steve, if there's something going on, feel free to PM me here on the forum... it seems as though you have some kind of vendetta, or that something clearly went wrong along the way.

-Gary

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Andrea Wilson

14 years ago

Yeah Jusumax, you actually did. I quite spent a lot of time reading the discussion and Im glad that gary was here to clear things up. I am not yet signed up with Listwire though and Im confuse why Steve has to optout, was Listwire sending too much mails?

Andrea

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Colin Palfrey

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrea Wilson

Yeah Jusumax, you actually did. I quite spent a lot of time reading the discussion and Im glad that gary was here to clear things up. I am not yet signed up with Listwire though and Im confuse why Steve has to optout, was Listwire sending too much mails?

Andrea

Hi Andrea,

To me, it looks like Steve was having a bad day, saw something in his inbox that he didn't read but rather than ignore it he decided to opt-out.

What I think he didn't realize, was that it was from the auto-responder company, and opting-out would close his account. Hey, who reads the small print when you are trying to opt-out, right!

So then he goes to email his list and his account is closed. I think he just thought he was just opting out of another marketers list, so now thinks that opting out of any list using ListWire gets your account closed.

In that situation and with that understanding of what was happening, who wouldn't feel a little P'd off.

This is a theory of course, but it certainly sounds like what has happened.

Cheers,
Colin Palfrey

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ExRat 14 years ago

Hi Colin,

I'm just speculating, but I would tend to agree with you.

Perhaps part of the system is that Gary does JVs with the members and sent a promo for them, which is why Steve thought it was from someone else using Listwire?
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Robert Puddy

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey

Hi Andrea,

To me, it looks like Steve was having a bad day, saw something in his inbox that he didn't read but rather than ignore it he decided to opt-out.

What I think he didn't realize, was that it was from the auto-responder company, and opting-out would close his account. Hey, who reads the small print when you are trying to opt-out, right!

So then he goes to email his list and his account is closed. I think he just thought he was just opting out of another marketers list, so now thinks that opting out of any list using ListWire gets your account closed.

In that situation and with that understanding of what was happening, who wouldn't feel a little P'd off.

This is a theory of course, but it certainly sounds like what has happened.

Cheers,
Colin Palfrey

Yes im pretty sure the only catch (if you can call it that) is that you agree to except all emails from listwire admin and your free account is dependant on doing so

And by the way the co reg part of list wire more than makes up for that, never mind the great autoresponder service

I recommend it as a free alternative to my coaching students

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kea55

14 years ago

very useful thread. Thanks so much to the OP for posting

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darkwizgemz

14 years ago

Wow thanks for sharing up guys. It was a very useful thread.

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samrathgupta

14 years ago

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marcuslim

14 years ago

Originally Posted by samrathgupta

HI Warriors,

I have been using ListWire from many days and I am proud to say that yet they haven't asked for money from me

I think they will soon give a solid competition to aweber too.....

And as you said about the word " catch " yet I haven't met with anything like this........

If i see any anything which is near to a catch I will surely post here

Kind Regards
Samrath Gupta

Thanks for that, Samrath! I've been using ListWire myself and am happy to say it delivers. It's just too bad not too many people know about this, one of the best-kept secrets in internet marketing.

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Marcus Lim
Silver Bullet Publishing

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Ashwin

13 years ago

With at least some autoresponder services, you have access to the list you built if the service crashes or you change providers. There is an ability to import and export your list in text or CSV file.

Can you do that with List Wire? It does not seem like it, according to other posts on Warrior Forum. I was tempted to check out List Wire, but I would not use it because of that feature.

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Gary_The_Ace

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ashwin

With at least some autoresponder services, you have access to the list you built if the service crashes or you change providers. There is an ability to import and export your list in text or CSV file.

Can you do that with List Wire? It does not seem like it, according to other posts on Warrior Forum. I was tempted to check out List Wire, but I would not use it because of that feature.

No, you can't import existing lists... it's too much of a security/spam risk for us. WAYYYYY too much of a risk.

If you have an existing list you want to import, feel free to use one of the many paid services out there... there are plenty to choose from.

-Gary Ambrose

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Jomealawuru

8 years ago

I have read every comment on this page and it seems some comments are out of line. It's not good to attack a business or service because you do not agree with their terms of service. if a free listwire account is tied to receiving emails from the service, I think it's a win win deal. As for not being able to export your list, I wouldn't expect them to do that because they already provided a valuable service. why would you want to leave after receiving so much help that helped you grow? Instead, you could send a broadcast to your list on listwire and have them opt in to another autoresponder service. I think that solves the issue of not being able to export your list. Between, I think list wire is a valuable service for newbie in the long run..by the way, I am not a list wire subscriber but I am exploring that option as t saves me a lot of cash..lol

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