How The Clueless Throw Away Their Money

by Harlan
570 replies
You are getting screwed.

Internet marketing died but the gurus didn't tell you that.

They've inflated a corpse and put in in the passengers seat so they can ride in the fast lane while everyone else is stuck in traffic.

From time to time they wave its hand to convince you it's alive.

Let me prove it.

First, most of the Internet marketing gurus are clueless. A year ago, a number of them killed their Facebook and Twitter accounts as a waste of time and that Social Media will never make money.

Now, they are back on Social Media and the only money coming in is thru Social Media.

Let's look at launches:

Launches worked like gang-busters in their day. And they still work to a degree.
It reminds me of all the people who would go to see the "Rocky Horror Show" so many times they knew all the words.

Guys - we've seen it before.

Here's the pattern: free but worthless content to get people to go WOW. Then everyone and his brother keeps mailing their list offering the coolest bonuses. Then there's the early bird list. Then comes the warnings that it's going to close and...

Surprise surprise as Gomer Pyle used to say. It reopens. The people buy it.
The product doesn't live up to the hype. Your complaints go to a help desk and you are out the money.

Here's the best part: two weeks later, the guru GIVES away the product you just bought as a bonus for the latest launch.

Seriously - we are a bunch of dumb ass suckers to take this crap.

None of these guys remotely has a "real business." They are just in the Internet biz-op business and use their little friends for some list incest.

The only ones getting rich are THEM.

And then it comes to content.

They are teaching the same model that they learned in 2004.

None of the stuff they are teaching works today.

If you really know internet marketing, most of their stuff went out with the first Google Slap. But they keep teaching it as if it's the only dance in town.

And this is just the beginning.

It gets a lot worse.

Let's look at Clickbank.

Just about every week a new Internet Marketing program launches on Clickbank. It promises to make you a million dollars in the next 6 weeks without doing anything.

Then you go through upsell hell for all the things you really NEED.

These sales letters are full of lies. Clickbank knows it and doesn't do anything about it.
Like the "16 year old girl" product that came out this year. It had FRAUD written in capital letters written all over the page.

I PERSONALLY spoke to a Vice President of Clickbank and complained about the Fraud and they played dumb. I said "Dude, it's your top selling product right now. Stop playing dumb."

I guess he couldn't help it. It was paying his bonus or something.

And yet, the desperate buy that crap knowing in their hearts that it's all bull and doesn't work anyway.

But hope springs eternal right. Maybe this could work.

So the gurus and demi-gurus push more products that don't work.

And at the end of the road stands Google with its push broom batting all these dreams into the gutter.

And if you buy now it's just $1997.

Or you can buy a better book on Amazon for $19.97 that teaches you more.

Folks.

The gurus only move ahead by looking BACKWARDS.

Great way to make money off someone else. Bad way to run a business.

None of these guys is looking to the future.

The Internet changes daily and if you keep following what used to work, you're only gonna get your butt kicked.
#money #throw
  • Profile picture of the author Harlan
    Originally Posted by Katie Byrd View Post

    You mean success requires independent thinking? :-)

    Awesome post and a fantastic way to start my day. The whole IM guru scene has always reminded me of Amway in the late '80s and early '90s. So glad to see it "exposed" this way by someone so credible. Thanks Harlan!
    Other people have said it before me. But independent thinking is forbidden.
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  • Profile picture of the author wkathome
    Wow, so true. My in box is full of pre launch information, never before seen and on and on. Thank god for a delete button.
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  • Profile picture of the author profitsforall
    So yet another thing has died, apparently it's the whole of iinternet marketing this time.

    Personally I'm tired of every little rant proclaiming the death of [INSERT THING HERE].

    From what you are saying it seems that marketing is alive and well, it appears to be the product quality you have issue with.

    If marketing was truly dead, the sale of these products would be nonexistant as nobody would be buying.
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    • Profile picture of the author Harlan
      Originally Posted by profitsforall View Post

      So yet another thing has died, apparently it's the whole of iinternet marketing this time.

      Personally I'm tired of every little rant proclaiming the death of [INSERT THING HERE].

      From what you are saying it seems that marketing is alive and well, it appears to be the product quality you have issue with.

      If marketing was truly dead, the sale of these products would be nonexistant as nobody would be buying.
      You really do have a good point.

      So if you want to sell something that doesn't work, the market is wide open.

      But if you're one of the sad folks who really wants to make a full time income via the Internet, following the out of date stuff isn't going to work.
      Signature

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      Free NLP Communications Course at http://www.nlpcopywriting.com
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Harlan,
        following the out of date stuff isn't going to work.
        You mean, like direct response websites, or plain text via email?


        Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
        Simple solution. Teach people to be more discerning and be more discerning in what you recommend.

        Jim over at Niche Rockets sent out an exemplary example of this today.

        You've probably all heard about the recent big ticket software system launch. Apparently Jim's been doing this same thing for years based on a book by a programmer written way back when.

        Here's the kicker. In his very long email, Jim actively tries to disqualify people from buying using his "entrepreneurial software fit test".

        A couple of samples:

        Once you believe the software is
        done, would you be ready to celebrate --
        or would you accept the fact that you'll
        likely have to spend another 100+ hours
        in fixing software bugs that creep up
        when other people start using it?
        Are you good with people and able to
        manage someone through a project, taking
        a leadership role?

        If you have trouble guiding a person,
        then this may not be right for you.

        And yes, a programmer definitely needs
        to be guided every step along the way and
        shown the way in every step of the process
        so your money is not burned up.

        To say that you have to micro-manage
        may be an understatement.
        I'm actually not interested in the system but if it's full of that level of sensible writing I might just get it as refreshment for a jaded mind.


        Martin
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  • Profile picture of the author theory expert
    Banned
    Sad for the consumer, but, for the seller.....what color ferrari do I get this time?
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  • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
    Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

    Now, they are back on Social Media and the only money coming in is thru Social Media.
    From your signature:
    It's Raining Money On Facebook! http://48hourmoneysecret.com


    Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

    Just about every week a new Internet Marketing program launches on Clickbank. It promises to make you a million dollars in the next 6 weeks without doing anything.
    And again from your signature:
    Do NO work and make money online http://beachmillions.com

    Guess the "gurus" aren't the only ones selling the dream.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Okay. This one did it.

      Harlan, you're intelligent and literate enough to make these points without playing the "gurus are evil" game. If you'd like to make your points without conspiracy theories, group-bashing, or self-indulgent rhetoric, feel free.

      I'm getting real close to just deleting any thread that starts out negative and doesn't offer some sort of positive alternative solution.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Harlan
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Okay. This one did it.

        Harlan, you're intelligent and literate enough to make these points without playing the "gurus are evil" game. If you'd like to make your points without conspiracy theories, group-bashing, or self-indulgent rhetoric, feel free.

        I'm getting real close to just deleting any thread that starts out negative and doesn't offer some sort of positive alternative solution.


        Paul
        Paul, good copy sets the stage before offering a solution.

        I'm setting the stage.

        I did that with my previous posts that you locked.

        The solution is so new to the Warrior Forum that there isn't even a single post on it.

        I venture to say not a single person on this forum has heard of the solution.
        Signature

        Harlan D. Kilstein Ed.D.
        Free NLP Communications Course at http://www.nlpcopywriting.com
        http://overnight-copy.com
        Get Fit In Four Minuteshttp://just4minutes.com
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        • Profile picture of the author Gary King
          Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

          Paul, good copy sets the stage before offering a solution.

          I'm setting the stage.

          I did that with my previous posts that you locked.

          The solution is so new to the Warrior Forum that there isn't even a single post on it.

          I venture to say not a single person on this forum has heard of the solution.

          So I guess I'm confused...

          You say you're "setting the stage" - sounds like a pre-launch to me.

          Why not just say what's on your mind instead of building hype about it?
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          • Profile picture of the author Harlan
            Originally Posted by Gary King View Post

            So I guess I'm confused...

            You say you're "setting the stage" - sounds like a pre-launch to me.

            Why not just say what's on your mind instead of building hype about it?
            Because if I posted a one word answer - and there is a one word answer - you would go huh? and think I'm on drugs.

            Giving you background to understand a concept is not pre-launch hype.

            My doctorate is in Education.
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            Harlan D. Kilstein Ed.D.
            Free NLP Communications Course at http://www.nlpcopywriting.com
            http://overnight-copy.com
            Get Fit In Four Minuteshttp://just4minutes.com
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
              Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

              Giving you background to understand a concept is not pre-launch hype.

              My doctorate is in Education.
              Well, excuse me for being an unsophisticated rube, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
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              Dan's content is irregularly read by handfuls of people. Join the elite few by reading his blog: dcrBlogs.com, following him on Twitter: dcrTweets.com or reading his fiction: dcrWrites.com but NOT by Clicking Here!

              Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Harlan,
              Giving you background to understand a concept is not pre-launch hype.

              My doctorate is in Education.
              Propaganda is not education. The opening post in this thread was pure propaganda. Sweeping generalizations, designed to set yourself up as the hero to the victimized masses.

              I can almost understand this from people with no experience and little knowledge of the business. Not from you. You're too bright to not know exactly what you're doing with that kind of rhetoric.


              Paul
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            • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
              Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

              My doctorate is in Education.
              Harlan,

              You must have gone to a faculty that forgot to teach you one of the worst sins of a teacher is patronizing the students.


              Martin
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            • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
              Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

              My doctorate is in Education.
              I have to admire your resilience.

              When you come here and stir up the hornets nest - you must know what response you're going to get.

              You seem to respond as though you're treating the comments seriously (and even respond in what appears an emotional way when criticised sometimes) so you're definitely feeding into the response you get.

              But I can't help feeling like you're coming along to poke the sleeping dog with a stick and wondering why it tries to bite you.

              You're an NLPer, a copywriter, your doctorate is in education - yet you post like you think insulting people in this community will wash right past and appear like a lofty theoretical debate about "how the others are doing it wrong".

              Since this seems to be a trend - I'm sure you must just be playing around, probably sat having a beer with your buddies gathered around a big screen tv saying "watch what they do when I hit them like this!" and having a good laugh at the responses.

              I really want to take you seriously as I'm sure you must have a really interesting things to say, but when you play games like this and 'set the stage' rather than just get on with the conversation is makes it awefully hard to wait long enough to get down to it.

              Let alone having to plough through all the responses that happen along the way.

              Andy
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              nothing to see here.

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        • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
          Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

          I'm setting the stage.
          Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

          The solution is so new to the Warrior Forum that there isn't even a single post on it.

          I venture to say not a single person on this forum has heard of the solution.
          So, you're using this thread to pre-sell us on YOUR solution? All the other "gurus" are peddling waste matter, but you're the one with the gold?

          LOL.
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          • Profile picture of the author Harlan
            Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

            So, you're using this thread to pre-sell us on YOUR solution? All the other "gurus" are peddling waste matter, but you're the one with the gold?

            LOL.
            It's an almost Pavlovian response.

            You must be selling something.

            And other gurus ARE peddling waste matter.

            But the sad saps keep buying.

            Somewhere, Dan Kennedy is smiling.
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            Harlan D. Kilstein Ed.D.
            Free NLP Communications Course at http://www.nlpcopywriting.com
            http://overnight-copy.com
            Get Fit In Four Minuteshttp://just4minutes.com
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
              Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

              And other gurus ARE peddling waste matter.
              So, you count yourself among the gurus. That would be the group of people of whom you said:

              Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

              None of these guys remotely has a "real business." They are just in the Internet biz-op business and use their little friends for some list incest.
              Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

              None of the stuff they are teaching works today.
              Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

              None of these guys is looking to the future.
              And, you've included yourself in this group. Interesting.
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              Dan's content is irregularly read by handfuls of people. Join the elite few by reading his blog: dcrBlogs.com, following him on Twitter: dcrTweets.com or reading his fiction: dcrWrites.com but NOT by Clicking Here!

              Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
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            • Profile picture of the author jminkler
              Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

              It's an almost Pavlovian response.

              You must be selling something.

              And other gurus ARE peddling waste matter.

              But the sad saps keep buying.

              Somewhere, Dan Kennedy is smiling.
              I think what's even sadder is the amount of people STARTING A BUSINESS **ONLINE** without knowing ANYTHING about programming or websites, or search engines, or anything else.

              Anyone else watch "Kitchen Nightmares" or "Kitchen: Impossible" - "did you have experience in owning a restaurant?", "no, we thought we could do this" reuslt?? ... canned food, molding freezers, websites with security holes chewing up shared hosting to the point where they are told by a "guru" they need a "cloud" solution ..

              Do you people realize how much money you would save if you hired the right programmer to build you a WEBSITE (not WP) in the first place? Do you realize how much you would save if you picked up some books? This stuff is scary, how many of you have hundreds of lists of email addresses, all waiting to be hacked and stolen? Credit card #'s? Addresses, phone numbers? Only about 2% of the people on this site have even considered security to be a priority..

              Worse? All the struggling with wordpress, trying to make it a swiss army knife. It's blogging software, not an eCommerce solution, or tiered membership site with affiliate commissions.

              LEARN something about the BUSINESS you are IN.
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          • Profile picture of the author LarryC
            Actually, that's how most of the gurus' sales letters read -"I bought all these other worthless products till I found the one secret that actually works!" ,etc.


            Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

            So, you're using this thread to pre-sell us on YOUR solution? All the other "gurus" are peddling waste matter, but you're the one with the gold?

            LOL.
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        • Profile picture of the author profitsforall
          Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

          Paul, good copy sets the stage before offering a solution.

          I'm setting the stage.

          I did that with my previous posts that you locked.

          The solution is so new to the Warrior Forum that there isn't even a single post on it.

          I venture to say not a single person on this forum has heard of the solution.

          Yep folks - you can't sell a solution if folks aren't aware of an imaginary problem.

          Most of you don't realise this but the sky is falling down, And I am the only vendor of the magic umbrella that can stop this.

          Should you purchase this fine umbrella I have an upsell on the thankyou page - there are these clothes that are so fine, that only intelligent people can see them. Previous customers have included royalty.

          And a downsell - a cracking bargain price on london bridge. (although the delivery cost is somewhat prohibitive).

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        • Profile picture of the author theory expert
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Harlan View Post


          The solution is so new to the Warrior Forum that there isn't even a single post on it.
          Can you ignore the negative post and get to the meat of this. I'm sorry, but, this statement just sticks out too deeply in my mind.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
          Originally Posted by Harlan View Post


          The solution is so new to the Warrior Forum that there isn't even a single post on it.

          I venture to say not a single person on this forum has heard of the solution.


          Are you going to sell it for $1,997 ???

          I have the money waiting. By the way, if you have any bonuses worth $10,000 or more let me know.

          I'm already sold, but they will convince my wife and kids that it is money well spent.
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        • Profile picture of the author tj
          Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

          ....

          The solution is so new to the Warrior Forum that there isn't even a single post on it.

          I venture to say not a single person on this forum has heard of the solution.
          Getting a job ?

          Timo
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      • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        I'm getting real close to just deleting any thread that starts out negative and doesn't offer some sort of positive alternative solution.

        "A better way to launch a product?"

        "A better way to sell information products?"

        "A better way to become an established expert in your niche?"

        And so on.


        Becky

        P.S. "A better way to get attention?"
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      • Profile picture of the author RussRuffino
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Okay. This one did it.

        Harlan, you're intelligent and literate enough to make these points without playing the "gurus are evil" game. If you'd like to make your points without conspiracy theories, group-bashing, or self-indulgent rhetoric, feel free.

        I'm getting real close to just deleting any thread that starts out negative and doesn't offer some sort of positive alternative solution.


        Paul
        Yes please! I'm so tired of these rant threads - if people aren't too busy making money to compose these 10 page rants, then maybe they have something to learn from the gurus after all.

        I built my whole business by listening to Chris Farrell, Russell Brunson, Yanik Silver and the War Room. I consider the money I've spent in those places to be VERY well spent.

        Russ
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
          Like Mr McGuire says to Benjamin:

          I want to say one word to you. Just one word.

          Plastics.

          Wow, if I hadn't before, now I have really dated myself.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

      From your signature:
      It's Raining Money On Facebook! http://48hourmoneysecret.com




      And again from your signature:
      Do NO work and make money online http://beachmillions.com

      Guess the "gurus" aren't the only ones selling the dream.
      LMAO!

      That's funny!

      Don't buy from the other guy, buy from me, lol...
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Gram
      Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

      From your signature:
      It's Raining Money On Facebook! http://48hourmoneysecret.com




      And again from your signature:
      Do NO work and make money online http://beachmillions.com

      Guess the "gurus" aren't the only ones selling the dream.
      Yep, what's in his signature is enough for me to never listen to what this guy ever says.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonet Bradley
    Harlan, you bring up some good points however, would you agree that one should not "re-invent" the wheel so to speak, "success leaves footprints"...yada, yada, ya. This is especially true for a newbie.

    There is so much conflicting information out there that it can become quite confusing to know who to follow...I know that I have learned to find one method and stick to it and I have finally starting to see results. What suggestions would you offer for someone that isn't sure whether or not they should invest in these new products?
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  • Profile picture of the author Fat Tony
    I love how you make a big rant about how it's all bull, and then sell the same bull in your signature.
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    Make Money Or Else: Straight talk about making money online.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Fat Tony View Post

      I love how you make a big rant about how it's all bull, and then sell the same bull in your signature.
      Yes ... as a famous mod would say ...
      "I love the smell of irony in the morning"
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    • Profile picture of the author skibbz
      Originally Posted by Fat Tony View Post

      I love how you make a big rant about how it's all bull, and then sell the same bull in your signature.
      ahhh hahahaha
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  • Community is the way of the future. It's what social media has been trying to teach us for these past few years.

    Build a community and business naturally follows. A community trusts you as an expert and knows you will stick around to help them for a long time.
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  • Profile picture of the author sammytoga
    How do we know that the guru products don't work? How many of us have paid for one of those products, only to read through it and put it on a shelf. A few of us actually try what they are teaching and fail, so we stop trying their system. Yes many of the guru products are the same old rehashed crap, but guess what, people are still buying it!

    Internet marketing is about trying, failing, and re-trying
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Dolan
      Originally Posted by sammytoga View Post

      How do we know that the guru products don't work? How many of us have paid for one of those products, only to read through it and put it on a shelf. A few of us actually try what they are teaching and fail, so we stop trying their system. Yes many of the guru products are the same old rehashed crap, but guess what, people are still buying it!

      Internet marketing is about trying, failing, and re-trying
      Its true, I am grateful that Clickbank makes it easy to get your money back when these products frequently don't live up to their hype, or simply don't actually work.

      But agree with others in the thread.

      The inflated claims via Clickbank are just wrong, they are lies, falsified ... fortunately these new product pitch pages all look more or less the same - you either have a video with someone telling you he is about to share something amazing, or have 20 screenshots of different fake accounts and traffic stats, that mean nothing, but look great cause you think if only that was my account -

      The gurus push out rehashed bs for the most part.

      Occasionally something real is in among it. But those who have big mailing lists go for high volume sales of $37 - $47 products with 2 or 3 upsells. They accept a 40% refund rate glady cause the 60% means another 20-30k minimum in their pocket.

      Do they ever use the Plan, Blueprint, Software they sell - certainly not to generate the fake screenshot results ... some have told me privately "no!"

      If it smells like BS it usually is.

      So now if the screenshots look like BS it usually is.

      Interesting and thought provoking thread.
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    • Profile picture of the author skylarw
      Originally Posted by sammytoga View Post

      Internet marketing is about trying, failing, and re-trying
      Ok this is silly... IM is about making money! Why would I want to repeat this cycle over and over again? Try..Fail..Try... You get the picture.

      I think what Harlan was trying to say is that Internet Marketing in the "How to make money" niche is dead. While I do not agree with this completely, I must say that it can be quite discouraging to see the same people dangling the same bait, different color in front of desperate people who continuously take it hook, line and sinker.

      However, there are plenty of ways to make money on/with the internet. Now, if I could just figure one out...
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by skylarw View Post

        I think what Harlan was trying to say is that Internet Marketing in the "How to make money" niche is dead. While I do not agree with this completely, I must say that it can be quite discouraging to see the same people dangling the same bait, different color in front of desperate people who continuously take it hook, line and sinker.

        So how exactly is this different than what Harlan is doing here?

        There is nothing new or ground-breaking about his proposal. The only thing that has changed is a shiny new box.
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        • Profile picture of the author paulie888
          Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          So how exactly is this different than what Harlan is doing here?

          There is nothing new or ground-breaking about his proposal. The only thing that has changed is a shiny new box.
          I couldn't agree more, Bill. It's just another established concept within the IM community that has been dressed up in a shiny new wrapper, meant to cause shock and awe among the impressionable.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Who said we're buying this crap?

    Some of us are not the sheeple others are assuming we are.

    Yes - we can see through all the re-hashed methods and know that their 'invaluable secrets' are the same things that you can read in any marketing 101 book from the last 50 years, but that usually means we're not their audience.

    Most of the big names from recent years (the last 10) seem to have moved on to milking ignorant business owners and executives so that they can see their stuff for 50 times what the newbie IMers will pay.

    They can say the same things we say here but charge their clients $2k an hour for it.

    The only people trying to shoot the fish in this barrel are the ones who haven't stepped up to the low volume - high margin arena.

    Many Gurus from recent years are struggling to pay their bills and live up to their previous hype.

    Not all of us have our heads stuck in the IM world so far that we can't put it into perspective.

    The ones who do - probably won't read what you're saying anyway as it's not what they want to hear.

    Andy
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    nothing to see here.

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    • Profile picture of the author Harlan
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Who said we're buying this crap?

      Some of us are not the sheeple others are assuming we are.

      Yes - we can see through all the re-hashed methods and know that their 'invaluable secrets' are the same things that you can read in any marketing 101 book from the last 50 years, but that usually means we're not their audience.

      Most of the big names from recent years (the last 10) seem to have moved on to milking ignorant business owners and executives so that they can see their stuff for 50 times what the newbie IMers will pay.

      They can say the same things we say here but charge their clients $2k an hour for it.

      The only people trying to shoot the fish in this barrel are the ones who haven't stepped up to the low volume - high margin arena.

      Many Gurus from recent years are struggling to pay their bills and live up to their previous hype.

      Not all of us have our heads stuck in the IM world so far that we can't put it into perspective.

      The ones who do - probably won't read what you're saying anyway as it's not what they want to hear.

      Andy
      Andy take a look at the Product reviews section. That's who is buying this crap.

      Take a look at the WSO section selling the same outdated stuff.

      That's who is buying this stuff.

      I'll spare you the famous Pogo quote.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    This isn't a theater, sir. And you are not the featured act.

    By the way, there's a rather significant difference between "setting the stage" and prepping the market with this odious brand of propaganda. You get away with that stuff in the copywriter's section. Not here.


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Harlan
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      This isn't a theater, sir. And you are not the featured act.

      By the way, there's a rather significant difference between "setting the stage" and prepping the market with this odious brand of propaganda. You get away with that stuff in the copywriter's section. Not here.


      Paul
      Feel free to delete any time Paul.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Harlan,
        Feel free to delete any time Paul.
        Tsk. I'm waiting for you to deliver your soliloquy, and share with us the brilliant idea which you, alone among the tens of thousands of people here, have ever considered.

        Well? Gonna keep your audience waiting, maestro?


        Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      This isn't a theater, sir. And you are not the featured act.

      By the way, there's a rather significant difference between "setting the stage" and prepping the market with this odious brand of propaganda. You get away with that stuff in the copywriter's section. Not here.


      Paul
      How many times has he done this lately? The same old, same old. Yes it's obvious he's "setting the stage" as he calls it - in other words he has another product coming out. "Odious brand of propaganda" is exactly right. Or "How to shoot yourself in the foot again and again".
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  • Profile picture of the author PaulMark
    For sale... Magic Beans

    For sale... Business Effort

    The first one sells almost every time. People loooooove Hopium. It's the drug of choice. And like any drug is has a high street value that's why $1997 is a popular number. The junkie can find a way to tap the latest bag.

    There will always be a mass of new folks willing to take a taste.

    Long-term focus is def. Chris' approach. People who are loyal to your leadership. I love that "model" too. You can sleep without wondering how many new addicts you created that day.
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  • Profile picture of the author howard542
    yep you got me thinking alright...nice post!!
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  • Hey, attention hogs, the answer to what he's talking about is COMMUNITY.

    At least I hope that's his answer, because I will eat my hat if it doesn't become the focal point of businesses and trends during 2011.

    A community builds credibility, respect and an army of followers ready to proclaim your greatness.

    It allows you to launch products and create value just by listening to your community and what they want. It creates the ultimate level of interaction between product creator and buyers.

    So yeah, if you say anything else, like a product or something, I'm going to be just as pissed as the other people here who are assuming that you are trying to pitch something to us.

    The entire rant is geared towards people who have purchased and been screwed by a guru in the past. What does that audience want? A better quality product.

    That could also be your answer, quality. Either way, waiting to see
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Chris,

      There are any number of things one could posit as appropriate answers to the question, "What's the single word?"

      Example: Wikinomics. (Great book, by the way.) It could also be summed up as "Collaboration."

      I'm waiting to hear what Harlan thinks none of the rest of us have ever considered.


      Paul
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      • Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Chris,

        There are any number of things one could posit as appropriate answers to the question, "What's the single word?"

        Example: Wikinomics. (Great book, by the way.) It could also be summed up as "Collaboration."

        I'm waiting to hear what Harlan thinks none of the rest of us have ever considered.


        Paul
        Funny you mention Collaboration, I've been working on a (non IM) related work trying to convince CEO's and business managers to use more interactive collabortive tools.

        Should I start my presentation with a rant about how paper companies and other manufaturers have been taking advantage of them for years? Perhaps tell them that there is one secret word that will allow them to save money and increase productivity... "Collaboration" ! lol

        Oh and here's my product on how to collaborate correctly, with 6 upsales as well! lol I can't wait to see where this thread goes

        /popcorn
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        So, what is the cure for all this?

        I'm going home now so can someone please PM me the one word that will make all this go away?

        I'd hate to come back and the thread was deleted.

        Despite earning a full time income, today, I bought Gary Kings WSO. Clearly there's something grossly wrong with me, please don't deny me the opportunity to find out how to cure myself of this tragic and terrible waste of my life.

        :rolleyes:

        EDIT...AAARRRGGGHH. I bought yours too Caleb.

        I need my tablets and a straight jacket, now.

        Quick, tell me the one word Harlan, pleeease?
        Signature

        Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

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        • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          Quick, tell me the one word Harlan, pleeease?
          Richard,

          You found the magic word yourself - it's in the sentence above


          Martin
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          • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
            Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post

            Richard,

            You found the magic word yourself - it's in the sentence above


            Martin
            Oh, it's "Harlan", right?

            Thought so. I'll go and buy up all those nice shiny things in his signature.

            Thanks Martin, I can go outdoors again.
            Signature

            Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

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          • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
            Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post

            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

            Quick, tell me the one word Harlan, pleeease?
            Richard,

            You found the magic word yourself - it's in the sentence above


            Martin
            Ooh, I like games like this. Okay, is the magic word tell? It is, isn't it? What do I win?
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            • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
              Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

              Ooh, I like games like this. Okay, is the magic word tell? It is, isn't it? What do I win?
              Oh jolly Well done Dan, excellent answer....

              You win a copy of.....Beach Millions!!!
              Signature

              Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

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              • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                Banned
                A thread about nothing. How riveting!
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              • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
                Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                You win a copy of.....Beach Millions!!!
                Richard, that's cruel.

                You're supposed to reward winners, not punish them!


                Martin
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                • Profile picture of the author stuartg
                  I would say wasting precious time on things that do not produce income. They say time is money, so do not waste time on things that you can outsource.
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                • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
                  I haven't read the whole thread but...

                  I find Harlan's post at least mildly insulting.

                  A couple of other points came to mind:

                  1. Bashing the gurus is an out of date tactic and rather ridiculous.

                  2. Technology continuously changes and evolves and so does business. So people doing business must always adapt. But the Internet isn't going anywhere and online marketing is here to stay, in whatever form it takes. So enough with the "IM is dead!" junk, ok? I started out as a copywriter and I know all about making a bold or controversial statement to get attention and make a point. But this one is completely overdone.

                  3. IM isn't hard, but there's a steep learning curve. And just like any form of direct marketing, sometimes the trial and error period before hitting success is longer for some than others. But that doesn't mean IM isn't legitimate.

                  Paul Meyers is right: making sweeping generalizations and insulting your audience isn't the way to engage in a conversation OR sell anything, no matter how well educated you are. (I have a college degree too.)

                  Anyone who's reasonably intelligent and has been around IM for even a short time realizes there's a lot of junk and has to learn to separate the wheat from the chaff. There are a lot of fine people in IM who are experts at what they do AND have been around for quite a while (10+ years).

                  After studying IM for a while, I discovered some of these people and chose to FOCUS and follow just a handful of experts, listen and learn from them and then take ACTION -- shutting everyone else out. I was heartily SICK of the incestuous nature of IM and had to deliberately choose to ignore most of it (with a couple of exceptions) for quite a while.

                  Anyone can do the same. If you're confused and wants REAL, solid information, I suggest looking for the experts in your field, pick just two or three, follow them and shut everyone else out.

                  It's made a HUGE difference for me. I've chosen the very best people in my field to learn from and have been very happy with what I've bought and learned. And I ignore most everything else from almost everyone else.

                  I've been SO HAPPY with my mentors! I'm so happy to recommend them:


                  1. Alexandria Brown -- AliBrown.com

                  Her Online Success Blueprint is AWESOME. It's an online marketing plan for people with REAL businesses, not IMers selling to other IMers.


                  2. Carrie Wilkerson -- Barefoot-Executive.com

                  Carrie is warm and authentic. I love her stuff!


                  3. Lisa Sasevich -- LisaSasevich.com

                  Lisa's expertise is on speaking and irresistible offers (live presentations and teleseminars). She ROCKS at what she does: helping you make big money at what you LOVE doing by crafting irresistible offers and selling without being "sales-y."


                  4. Joan Stewart -- PublicityHound.com

                  Joan is a publicity expert and also rocks at what she does. She has a LOT of good information on getting free publicity and using the media to get your message out.


                  5. Sheri McConnell -- SmartWomenInstitute.com

                  Sheri is my most recent mentor and she's PHENOMENAL! I can't recommend her highly enough. Sheri founded and ran the National Association of Women Writers for 10 years before folding it into the Smart Women's Institute.

                  I've learned so much from her. She taught me how to create and run an association (her signature expertise) and she also co-published my newest book "Boost Business Online."

                  I didn't necessarily set out to learn only from women, it just happened that way. These ladies ROCK and have been around a LONG time. I've spent OVER $1,000 with each of them and the investment was well worth it.

                  So if you're looking for help, try these ladies out! (And no, they don't only offer expensive stuff. They all offer very low-cost things too so you can try them out and get started.)

                  I believe that any reasonably intelligent person is smart enough to sift through the junk and hype on their own to find the real gems. So calling us "clueless" and insinuating that we're dumb enough to only keep buying the junk and hype is ridiculous.

                  There will ALWAYS be junk and hype in ANY market. But since we live in a free market economy, there will also always be people who won't sell their souls for a quick buck. They offer solid, reputable products and services because they care about what they're doing and want to create positive change in the world by doing what they're good at and what they love to do.

                  It's the MY job (and YOUR job) to find those people. If I'm ONLY finding junk and hype and continuously losing money, at some point, I have to look in the mirror to find the responsible party.

                  So please don't insult me by calling me "clueless."

                  Michelle
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                • Profile picture of the author Dougger1
                  I've unsubscribed from just about all the gurus - excepting some that actually offer useful information. I have a sneaking suspicion that many of the gurus are just people who had one great success. made a name for themselves, built a list and have been earning money ever since then - just mailing other marketers' offers. I have heard - though I can't document it - that most of these big launches end up with 50% to 60% refunds. Makes one wonder.
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                • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
                  Banned
                  Ironic thread, considering the links in the OP's sig, lol.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Bradshaw
                    The answer is honesty.
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                    My fingers are for hire.

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                • Profile picture of the author fredgettings
                  Banned
                  [DELETED]
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  So many bright people have already said what needed to be said in regard
                  to your post being a load of...well, whatever you want to call it.

                  So I'm just going to add this.

                  Shame on you for thinking we're all so stupid that we can't see through
                  this crap.

                  I'd be offended if not for the fact that I expect this sort of drivel from you.

                  These rants are getting very old and have a very bad smell associated
                  with them.
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                • Profile picture of the author Zachmo
                  The issue about death of something. A thread about this has been talked about and as what a warrior there(can't remember the name) replied, it's better to just go on with what you're doing with passion and let this issue not affect anyone who by then will keep becoming successful while others are still mourning.
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                • Profile picture of the author thegotoguy
                  Ya I still get emails on a daily basis for just about every new product launch online. They aren't all junk, but they are all over priced and don't live up to the hype. Even the testimonials are rigged! They offer a backlink on their high ranking page for past customers to offer a testimonial on the new product and how happy they are to have found it. So its a bull---- testimonial. Internet marketing has changed. Your absolutely right. Customer satisfaction is under-rated and the products are mostly over-rated. No even keel!

                  But! This leaves plenty of room for true professionals to shine! Treat your customers right and be clear on what they are getting for their money. If your product/service sucks, they won't be back! So make sure its priced right, and does what you promise!
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        • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
          It's Raining Money On Facebook!
          Do NO work and make money online
          I once thanked the first thread I saw of yours, and I thank you for that,
          because it showed me to pay more attention before I press thanks.

          I said in a thread the other day, how everything works in cycles.
          Now bash the gurus is being overworked.
          Or do you actually see yourself as one of the young Turks overthrowing the old guard?

          Harlan, I 'll hand you one thing with these threads, I've not been so entertained and had my intelligence insulted at the same time, since the Rich Jerk



          Your doing the same B.S. your supposedly bitching about.

          Jim
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  • Profile picture of the author Online Bliss
    When you come here and stir up the hornets nest - you must know what response you're going to get.
    Wow Andy,
    you have said everything I was thinking
    regarding this thread.
    Great analogies!
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  • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
    Like the "16 year old girl" product that came out this year. It had FRAUD written in capital letters written all over the page.
    I'll be completely straight up with you... I had a hard time believing that one too... But, I also chatted with Carol, and found her to be a little bit "off base"... Either it was someone acting "as a" 16 year old... Or she was just very nervous, because she would only text chat and not call.

    However, I don't think that because someone says they are 16... That you should immediately associate that with BS, because "no 16 year old can make it".. Because they can.... And that is my obviously biased opinion

    Caleb
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  • Profile picture of the author mike959100
    Originally Posted by Craig Desorcy View Post

    positive alternative:

    1. Find a niche you have a passion for. (Make sure people are spending money in it)
    and it juices you (Passion).

    2. Become a servant. Ask yourself, how can I serve? How can I make things easier
    for this group? What problems can I solve?

    3. Monetize.

    Or something like that ;-)

    Best,

    Craig
    Yes I agree, couldnt have said it better. Finding a niche is probably the most effective way about getting noticed
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Mal,

      I'm not assuming anything about his motives. Just his words, as they appear in this thread.

      If the folks in the Kopy Klatsch want to play at this sort of thing, I'm fine with that. They all know, or should know, what's going on with it. It doesn't belong in main discussion.

      What's interesting is his assumption that I am the person who's deleted whatever other threads like this he's posted. I may have been, but none of them stick out in mind at the moment. There are at least a half dozen people who could have booted the previous ones.

      While I'm certain there are many things I could learn from Harlan, I find it interesting to see the claim that none of the thousands of members here have ever heard of his wonderful new concept. It's quite possible I haven't, but... no-one else here at all?

      Highly implausible.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve Taylor
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Mal,

        I'm not assuming anything about his motives. Just his words, as they appear in this thread.

        If the folks in the Kopy Klatsch want to play at this sort of thing, I'm fine with that. They all know, or should know, what's going on with it. It doesn't belong in main discussion.

        What's interesting is his assumption that I am the person who's deleted whatever other threads like this he's posted. I may have been, but none of them stick out in mind at the moment. There are at least a half dozen people who could have booted the previous ones.

        While I'm certain there are many things I could learn from Harlan, I find it interesting to see the claim that none of the thousands of members here have ever heard of his wonderful new concept. It's quite possible I haven't, but... no-one else here at all?

        Highly implausible.


        Paul
        We're waiting for his "New Shiny Word" that's just been rehashed. LOL
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        • Profile picture of the author tpw
          Originally Posted by Steve Taylor View Post

          We're waiting for his "New Shiny Word" that's just been rehashed. LOL

          I think we will be waiting for a while...

          Obviously anyone who questions his wisdom is not worthy of his "New Shiny Word".



          But, I am pretty certain at this point that I have figured out his "magic word".

          When he stomped out of the thread like a self-absorbed toddler, he proved that his departure was part of his original launch plan.

          So let's examine again his description of this "magic word" of his:

          Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

          The solution is so new to the Warrior Forum that there isn't even a single post on it.

          I venture to say not a single person on this forum has heard of the solution.

          His magic word must be declared to have its intended effect.

          His magic word is DEFEAT !!!

          His solution for us is to declare DEFEAT, quit Internet Marketing, and go get a job.

          As you can see, this is a "solution" that has never been discussed on the Warrior Forum. In fact, it is a "solution" that most of us have never heard and never will hear from our own mouths...

          :rolleyes:
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          • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
            "I venture to say not a single person on this forum has heard of the solution. "

            That's because he never tells it to us

            I could say the same thing and then not tell you. Until you open you mouth - you can't be proved wrong.

            This is how religion works - "I'm going to tell you what God wants you to do. YOU cannot hear him for yourself so you must just accept that was I say is what God has told me" There's no way to be self-empowered when you step into a system with rules like this.

            It's better to remain silent and be suspected a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

            Andy
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            nothing to see here.

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            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
              Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post


              Clickbank is payment processor. They're no more a fraud than Paypal or another other third party payment processor.
              Not quite true. CB is a wholesaler, if anything.

              Technically they'd be more of a reseller, full prices and all, not wholesale ... but for all practical purposes they are a 3rd party payment processor. That's essentially the function they serve.
              Signature

              Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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              • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                Technically they'd be more of a reseller, full prices and all, not wholesale ... but for all practical purposes they are a 3rd party payment processor. That's essentially the function they serve.
                Actually - you're right. I stand corrected.
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                • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
                  Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

                  Actually - you're right. I stand corrected.
                  Have a seat instead, Mal. It's a long thread.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
            Originally Posted by tpw View Post

            His magic word must be declared to have its intended effect.

            His magic word is DEFEAT !!!

            His solution for us is to declare DEFEAT, quit Internet Marketing, and go get a job.

            As you can see, this is a "solution" that has never been discussed on the Warrior Forum. In fact, it is a "solution" that most of us have never heard and never will hear from our own mouths...

            :rolleyes:
            Can't be. It's not infrequently that warriors advise the clueless to get a job rather than to dabble in IM. So, since that is something that is known to the Warrior Forum, that cannot be the "magic word."

            Nor can "integrity" be the "magic word" as implied by The Copy Nazi's link to Joel Comm's blog. Integrity has several proponents on this forum, so that is not something new to the Warrior Forum either.

            So, I guess it's back to the waiting game.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    I have a one-word solution to all problems.......

    Accountability.

    None of the launches really make any difference if you hold yourself accountable for the results of your business.

    The reliance on others to tell you what to do and how to do it is where most of the problems come from.

    I don't care what people are launching or how they're doing it - that's nothing to do with me.
    Signature

    nothing to see here.

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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin_Hutto
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      I have a one-word solution to all problems.......

      Accountability.

      None of the launches really make any difference if you hold yourself accountable for the results of your business.

      The reliance on others to tell you what to do and how to do it is where most of the problems come from.

      I don't care what people are launching or how they're doing it - that's nothing to do with me.
      I agree Andy. Accountability is the issue. I was on a 24 hour ustream with one famous guru a couple of years ago and someone asked what he would do if he had to start over again... He said he would do the same thing as he discovered his "passion" was truly teaching. So, then I posed the question that if his passion was teaching then how does he reconcile the fact that some high percentage(over 90% lets say) of his students still fail. He said that he can only present the material and he can't be responsible if the student actually learns it or does something with it. So, then I said it must be nice to have NO ACCOUNTABILITY. Which didnt seem to go over well. But I pointed out that if a teacher failed 90%+ of their students... They would eventually get fired. And the best teachers have a passion for getting their students to truly learn and understand. To which he had no answer.

      Now, before everybody starts going to the argument about people are responsible for their own actions, etc... and its the buyers fault for not reading or implementing the materials... I agree. I am not making that point at all. My point is that he should have just been honest and said that his passion is making money - and this was an easy way to do it. Not that his passion was teaching. Because if thats the case then there would be a different sense of accountability to students success. The problem is that accountability doesn't scale well.

      So, I see the accountability as my own issue. And I just understand that no matter what the message or how good the guy, he is in it for the money. Which is cool with me - so am I.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Kevin,

        The proper response to your first question would have been, "Teachers in formal settings have students who've learned the pre-requisites for their courses."

        I'm not arguing against your premise, just pointing out the hole in part of the structure. It could easily be fixed with proper ad copy, but most of the folks who buy things they aren't ready to use also don't read that sort of cautionary note.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author Kevin_Hutto
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Kevin,

          The proper response to your first question would have been, "Teachers in formal settings have students who've learned the pre-requisites for their courses."

          I'm not arguing against your premise, just pointing out the hole in part of the structure. It could easily be fixed with proper ad copy, but most of the folks who buy things they aren't ready to use also don't read that sort of cautionary note.


          Paul
          I agree with you. And I actually thought he might have gone that route in an answer to me that day which would have started a conversation that I would have really liked to have with him - as I think he's a smart guy. But instead he went a different route that was sort of cliche I felt - which didn't really create any meaningful dialogue. So, unfortunately it didn't really result in any progress... but I think about it - especially when I come to WF and see so many struggling.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
        Mag wheels or hubcaps.

        The basic business principles hardly ever change to any degree although the delivery methods to get a sales messege across do tend to grow with technotime.

        But in the end the wheels still go round and round.

        So the question is what's hot today, mag wheels or hub caps.

        They sure seem to make a world of difference to those who choose.

        But the tires don't care one way or the other, they just keep going round and round.

        ~Bill
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Bill,
          The basic business principles hardly ever change to any degree although the delivery methods to get a sales messege across do tend to grow with technotime.
          "Hardly" is true. The potential in collaborative markets described in Wikinomics is one very large change that's an exception to the rule.

          The techs who built the network understood the idea, of course, long before that book was conceived, but the authors do a nice job of explaining it for folks who're new to the notion.

          I want to see what Harlan's word is, personally. It would be nice to actually learn something new from one of these threads for a change.


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author Harlan
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            I want to see what Harlan's word is, personally. It would be nice to actually learn something new from one of these threads for a change.


            Paul
            Dear Paul, I tried to post my one word answer.

            But the answer isn't 10 characters long.

            So it won't let me post.
            Signature

            Harlan D. Kilstein Ed.D.
            Free NLP Communications Course at http://www.nlpcopywriting.com
            http://overnight-copy.com
            Get Fit In Four Minuteshttp://just4minutes.com
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            • Profile picture of the author tpw
              Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

              Dear Paul, I tried to post my one word answer.

              But the answer isn't 10 characters long.

              So it won't let me post.

              Then use an ellipsis or three after your one word...

              Because your credibility is struggling to catch its breath...
              Signature
              Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
              Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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              • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
                Originally Posted by tpw View Post

                Then use an ellipsis or three after your one word...

                Because your credibility is struggling to catch its breath...
                For many of us it's already too late. Flatlined much earlier in the thread.
                Signature
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              • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
                Originally Posted by tpw View Post

                Then use an ellipsis or three after your one word...

                Because your credibility is struggling to catch its breath...
                I'm not clever enough to know why he's playing dumb about posting - I KNOW he's not stupid enough to really not be able to post his one word answer.

                I hope it's not just a lame tactic to try and make us want to hear the answer - I actually couldn't give a toss what it is now, but I'm interested to see why he wants us all to think he's stupid and making a mockery of himself like he wants to see who jumps onboard to kick him when they think he's on the back foot.

                He's clever enough to know we're not all buying into it so it's either just an experiment out of boredom, or he forgot we're not all retarded when he posted the OP and now is just playing out the thread from morbid curiosity about what other crazy stuff we'll post in response.
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                nothing to see here.

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                • Profile picture of the author tpw
                  Andy: I have been leaning this way for most of the day...


                  Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

                  he forgot we're not all retarded when he posted the OP

                  And thinking, "Pride cometh before the fall."
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                  Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
                  Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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                  • Profile picture of the author Eric Louviere
                    Originally Posted by Kim Lauren View Post

                    Is that a Lennon/McCartney penned song? Ringo wrote about getting by with a little help from his friends, but not a plea for help.
                    I have no idea, I'm not *educated* in such... just thought by signing "Ringo" it would be funnier. I laughed - which is all that matters - to me. lol

                    ~Yoko Ono
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                    • Profile picture of the author Harlan
                      I spent the afternoon with the world's greatest copywriter.

                      Maybe Paul has heard of him - maybe not.

                      He isn't American but the man is a master.

                      He has sold hundreds of millions of dollars.

                      We spent the afternoon filming him to share a video of his teaching about email marketing.

                      Single emails have brought in more than a million dollars without a product launch and without affiliates.

                      But after coming back and seeing what's happened in the meantime, I sincerely feel I'm wasting my time here.

                      I don't spend a full day cruising the Warrior Forum.

                      They say when the student is willing, the teacher appears.

                      When the student is unwilling, the teacher disappears.
                      Signature

                      Harlan D. Kilstein Ed.D.
                      Free NLP Communications Course at http://www.nlpcopywriting.com
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                      • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
                        Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

                        I spent the afternoon with the world's greatest copywriter.

                        Maybe Paul has heard of him - maybe not.

                        He isn't American but the man is a master.

                        He has sold hundreds of millions of dollars.

                        We spent the afternoon filming him to share a video of his teaching about email marketing.

                        Single emails have brought in more than a million dollars without a product launch and without affiliates.

                        But after coming back and seeing what's happened in the meantime, I sincerely feel I'm wasting my time here.

                        I don't spend a full day cruising the Warrior Forum.

                        They say when the student is willing, the teacher appears.

                        When the student is unwilling, the teacher disappears.
                        Oooh, very interesting.

                        Would you be so kind as to now finally make the point you were trying to (or going to) make before?

                        Otherwise, what's the point of the thread? Just to attract attention?
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                      • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
                        Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

                        I spent the afternoon with the world's greatest copywriter.

                        Maybe Paul has heard of him - maybe not.

                        He isn't American but the man is a master.

                        He has sold hundreds of millions of dollars.

                        We spent the afternoon filming him to share a video of his teaching about email marketing.

                        Single emails have brought in more than a million dollars without a product launch and without affiliates.

                        But after coming back and seeing what's happened in the meantime, I sincerely feel I'm wasting my time here.

                        I don't spend a full day cruising the Warrior Forum.

                        They say when the student is willing, the teacher appears.

                        When the student is unwilling, the teacher disappears.

                        I have only one thought about this post - was it written just now or a few days ago?


                        Martin
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                      • Profile picture of the author tpw
                        Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

                        But after coming back and seeing what's happened in the meantime, I sincerely feel I'm wasting my time here.




                        Paul: He might be a smart dude, so I am going to keep some of my more colorful thoughts to myself. :p
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                        Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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                      • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
                        Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

                        We spent the afternoon filming him to share a video of his teaching about email marketing.

                        Single emails have brought in more than a million dollars without a product launch and without affiliates.
                        Email marketing. Hmm. Sounds like something that was being taught in 2004.

                        And 2002.

                        2000.

                        1998.

                        1996.

                        Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

                        They are teaching the same model that they learned in 2004.

                        None of the stuff they are teaching works today.
                        Uh-huh.
                        Signature

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                      • Profile picture of the author Gary_The_Ace
                        Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

                        I spent the afternoon with the world's greatest copywriter.

                        Maybe Paul has heard of him - maybe not.

                        He isn't American but the man is a master.

                        He has sold hundreds of millions of dollars.

                        We spent the afternoon filming him to share a video of his teaching about email marketing.

                        Single emails have brought in more than a million dollars without a product launch and without affiliates.

                        But after coming back and seeing what's happened in the meantime, I sincerely feel I'm wasting my time here.

                        I don't spend a full day cruising the Warrior Forum.

                        They say when the student is willing, the teacher appears.

                        When the student is unwilling, the teacher disappears.
                        I was holding out hope that you hadn't completely lost it...

                        I'm still not sure.

                        -Gary
                        Signature
                        If you have an automated webinar in the IM, biz opp, or make money space, and if it already converts to cold, and/or paid traffic... I want to send free traffic, and free leads to you registration page, every single day, until it stops converting. CLICK HERE FOR DETAILS NOW.

                        P.P.S. Viral Marketing Doesn't Work ... Tell Everyone You Know! ;)
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                      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
                        Originally Posted by Harlan View Post


                        When the student is unwilling, the teacher disappears.
                        Someone's been drinking their own cool-ade.

                        You got called-out... why not just admit that your OP was lazy and not actually written for this forum's members (we know it anyway) and have a decent discusssion about the point you were trying to make?

                        You're an NLPer - the meaning of your communication is the response it elicits - It looks like you're not practising your own craft and are unwilling to learn.

                        Thinking you already know it all is a recipe for disaster.

                        Until you spat your dummy out and decided to take your toys home with you - there were still people here giving you the benefit of the doubt and hoping you would transcend the trashing and have an inspiring come-back.

                        Telling us we're not worthy of your teaching is not that inspiring and worse - having it as the last thing you said will not inspire many people to read the next time you start a thread either.

                        Surely that's not what you wanted?

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                        nothing to see here.

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                      • Profile picture of the author MrWonton
                        Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

                        He isn't American but the man is a master.
                        Is being American a prerequisite for being a Master?

                        Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

                        He has sold hundreds of millions of dollars.
                        He sells currency? Does he offer a good exchange rate?

                        Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

                        But after coming back and seeing what's happened in the meantime, I sincerely feel I'm wasting my time here.
                        You feel you're wasting your time?!

                        To those saying that this thread was simply a well thought out signature promotion tool, you're probably right. It seems Harlan is a level 10 troll. What I fail to see is how someone can be so comfortable with comprimising their name and 'reputation' for the sake of a few product sales.

                        I think I'd rather keep my integrity to be honest.
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            • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
              Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

              Dear Paul, I tried to post my one word answer.

              But the answer isn't 10 characters long.

              So it won't let me post.
              Huh?............
              Signature
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            • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
              Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

              Dear Paul, I tried to post my one word answer.

              But the answer isn't 10 characters long.

              So it won't let me post.


              O'please
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
              Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

              Dear Paul, I tried to post my one word answer.

              But the answer isn't 10 characters long.

              So it won't let me post.
              You couldn't type out something like "The word is _____" and fill in the blank?
              Signature

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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Harlan,
              So it won't let me post.
              Oh?
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            • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
              Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

              Dear Paul, I tried to post my one word answer.

              But the answer isn't 10 characters long.

              So it won't let me post.
              What a piss poor excuse.

              What's up? Got stage fright?

              Or scared that Toto might come along and expose you
              pulling the levers?


              Humbug indeed.

              However, there's a few marketing lessons in this thread.

              One is on how to get attention.

              But, for insights on how to keep attention and actually
              deliver, look elsewhere for your 'education.'

              Dedicated to mutual success,

              Shaun
              Signature

              .

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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

              Dear Paul, I tried to post my one word answer.

              But the answer isn't 10 characters long.

              So it won't let me post.
              You're educated. Be creative and add some characters.
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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                Suzanne,

                You mean, like this maybe?

                Hey! This is the perfect chance for me to sneak in a subliminal (subluminal?) plug for my new widget-whacker! Kewlll....


                Paul (aka, "The Invisible Mod")
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                • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
                  Paul,

                  So, what's up with this new widget-whacker?

                  Anyway, you have to remember the background color of the forum is not white, so when you do the text in white, it's still visible.

                  But, you can do the text in a color that matches the background color, which makes it completely invisible.

                  Unless, of course, you go and highlight it. Or quote it.

                  But, other than that, completely invisible!
                  Signature

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                  Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                  Suzanne,

                  You mean, like this maybe?

                  Hey! This is the perfect chance for me to sneak in a subliminal (subluminal?) plug for my new widget-whacker! Kewlll....


                  Paul (aka, "The Invisible Mod")

                  lol ... dag I hate that subliminal stuff. I bought the damned widget-whacker and don't now what to do with it.
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                  • Profile picture of the author CyberSorcerer
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post


                    lol ... dag I hate that subliminal stuff. I bought the damned widget-whacker and don't now what to do with it.
                    I too bought it and I know what whacker meant so I had the general idea of what he's talking about.

                    I just don't call mine widget?

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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Well Folks, you all know the answer to this without Harlan even sharing his special, unique wisdom with us....

    Those who can, do.

    Those who can't, teach.


    Then they stomp their feet...

    And rant about how no one is smart enough to see their wisdom...

    And they waste the final years of their life, wallowing in bitterness and resentment...

    The spend their last years on this earth looking back, never realizing that they must look forward to see the future...

    Oh well...

    Back to the current performance...

    "Wallowing in Self Pity"
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    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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  • Profile picture of the author 2marketnow
    Prehaps, experience cost money. Pay for college -- work in another field. Go into IM pay less than college -- yet burn a few $1,000 or less to see quickly -- purchase one item and 20 beggars are at the door begging to sell you something 'that really works and is the best of the best'. Bite -- purchase -- find out quickly -- learn to stop feeding the dog that bit you. Pay less than college -- learn a lot about something new -- venture out on your own and invest yourself instead of the quick result promising expert. They can't stop you ... It should not take anyone long to learn that IM promises are akin to going to a foreign country where every place you go someone is begging you to buy something. Only difference -- most of these gents/gals are not poor just praying on new blood. Truth -- you'll find the right way if you go to the library, investigate and use common sense coupled with caution.

    The best salesman I ever saw was a panhandler in DC. My son, 17 at the time, was stopped as we were going into a restuarant by a guy sitting on the sidewalk begging for money. My kindhearted son wanted to help but did not want his help going to the liquior store so he told man -- I'll get you something to eat at McD's -- the man put in an order for a #8. The most expensive item on the menu. The man never got up, got more than had my son given him a dollar or change. The man told my son to listen to his mother in the future -- This man saw a sale coming -- Best of luck to all --
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  • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
    Oh please.

    I know of sites that started from scratch in the 1990's that are still going strong today, if not stronger...that haven't changed a thing since they launched (well, the websites look a lot better...but the plan they use is the same thing they used back in the bad old 1990's).

    The reason? They stick to basics....and don't go for the latest fads much.

    Take Ratpadz inc.. Their marketing plan is real simple: Create a website to draw their target market (the website is hard|ocp if you want to take a look), then slip in an ad now and again as appropriate. While you and others are out there chasing fads, they quitely make bank each and every year. I can't even remember when the last time was they launched a new product...as it was quite a while ago.

    The takeaway: broad, deep, relevant, useful content wins every time. In short, provide value, and you win. It won in the 1990's...and it's stood the test of time and still wins today.

    The more things change, the more it stays the same. Whodathunkit?
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    • Profile picture of the author Manc
      What do you mean IM this same sales "technique" was around way before the internet was.

      Back in 1993 when I fell for a book promising to tell me how to make millions within a year. I was expecting some huge manual of biblical proportions... I got it and it was some really thin paperback book - it cost £20.

      Here in the UK back then I was also always looking in "Exchange & Mart" which might be a funny place to look you might think, but that was absolutely packed with "business opportunities" like this.

      All they did was took offline business opportunities and put them online. The actual internet itself seems to me to be hardly a part of this, its just another sales medium to sell this same stuff.

      Its big secret? The big secret it promoted throughout an entire page of a national newspaper was to simply start your own mail order business! No real tips, tricks or secrets, just start your own mail order business.

      Being young and naive I half thought I would make a million in a year but I fully thought I was getting something more than I did - this one time was enough for me to realize to never buy anything like this again no matter what it promises.

      Now it seems to have gone so far the other way that IM "guru's" selling you the next potion ARE in fact this time, unlike offline books, giving you something in return, for example software!

      I never got software that actually does something useful out of that book I bought, this time around we still have all the false promises but IMO those "guru's" are not even ripping people off in anything like the same way.

      Yes their claims are outrageous, but what if the software they provide cost you $37 and yet in your first week of using it you made back your $37 outlay x2 or x3? Would you even get a refund?

      Personally I don't even care about being rich and I don't think about. All I am doing now is working as hard as I can with the free tools I have to try to upscale things a bit more, or start up a totally new thing myself... well its new to me.

      Here's a clue - sell something else. Some of my niche sites, people have already said to me (who already know I set it up to make money) hey yeah that does sound like a genuine niche.

      I rang that paper and they quoted me £32,000 for a full page advert and thats in 1993. So this is the kind of money those guys were spending. The important thing is - I never saw such an advert in that paper ever again for years afterwards.

      To me that can only mean two things, either the guy did not make more than £32,000 so he lost out, or he made so much money he retired from that one campaign.

      That paper had 3,000,000 readers daily! So he sells the book at £20, he needs to sell 1600 copies. That means 1 in 1875 people needed to buy it for him to break even.

      All I know is the same techniques are still used today.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Ah. I got it. (Just checked my email.) He won't tell us until tomorrow, after part two of the article he sent to his subscribers this morning comes out...


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      I'm really disappointed to hear that.

      So this thread really was just part of the pre-sales process.... Bummer

      It's sad to think that we have such potentially valuable members that only come here when they're running a promotion just to shoot a few extra fish in our barrel.
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      nothing to see here.

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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Andy,
        It's sad to think that we have such potentially valuable members that only come here when they're running a promotion just to shoot a few extra fish in our barrel.
        I'm not prepared to assume that yet. We'll wait and see.


        Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Pre sales process? Noooo.

        I thought this was the answer to all of us being mugs for buying anything online before this thread arrived?

        At least from this thread the OP can see who won't buy his new silver shiny thingy.

        Which incidentally, defeats the whole object of having started the thread in the first place.

        I'm not prepared to assume that yet. We'll wait and see.
        I'm with you totally here Paul.

        One word and all of us get to see how silly we've been. :rolleyes:
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        Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Ah. I got it. (Just checked my email.) He won't tell us until tomorrow, after part two of the article he sent to his subscribers this morning comes out...


      Paul

      So this was Part One of his article series?

      Haha

      If I had done this, the post would have been reported by any of several of my Warrior followers, and it would have become my latest nuked thread.
      Signature
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      Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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  • Profile picture of the author robvegas626
    Harlan, it was a thought-provoking post. But I'd like to hear your thoughts on what is REAL and what is NEXT.

    The gurus like Frank Kern have been quiet lately...are they quietly regrouping and planning the next big thing? Or, is the era of a "Syndicate" ramming mediocre IM products down our throats dead and finished? I've heard the recent product launches were mediocre at best. (Who the heck is still paying $2,000 to learn this stuff?)
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  • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
    Harlan:

    Reading the OP, and your follow-up posts in this thread, I experienced strong déjà vu.

    Just this minute, I realised why, and it involves an interview with a certain famous Mr. Cruise.

    In this interview, he lay claim to his ability to refute and dismantle what he was adamant of being a widely misconstrued perception of reality. A misconception so widely and damagingly propagated as to have been adopted by most of the western world's populace.

    Scary, huh?

    His argument was long and passionate, but it was not convincing, for it comprised largely of empty words, sensationalism, and the occasional burst of "logic" (madness) apparently so superior as to be incomprehensible by mere mortals.

    But that's okay: viewers, apparently, were not required to understand. They just had to feel his passion, and realise there was a problem - even if they couldn't put their finger on what it was.

    And the solution, when pitched, was - funnily enough (or not?) - not at all confusing or ambiguous: "Follow me; I am your saviour".

    Needless to say, this man lost a lot of credibility in recent years. It hasn't been good for his reputation.

    So all I can say, Harlan, is that your "solution" to this problem - one that apparently affects all of us, whether we know it or not - better be damn good, unique and convincing, and much better than that other guy's ... because if not - bye bye credibility!
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    You know... I must have my information about copy writing all backwards...

    I thought that effective pre-sell was supposed to build your credibility, not destroy it...

    But what would I know? I am from Oklahoma after all... I guess this is part of my backwards thinking....
    Signature
    Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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  • Profile picture of the author JustinAtlan
    Guru's suck

    ...but don't talk like a guru if you don't want to be like them!
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Justin,
      Guru's suck
      Okay, new guy... Define 'guru.'


      Paul
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      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Okay, new guy... Define 'guru.'

        Anyone who makes more money than him?
        Signature
        Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
        Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Justin,Okay, new guy... Define 'guru.'


        Paul
        Crazy College Kid (Me) shows how his 30 min experiment made him go from $0-$428.58 in 10 days generating a Rapid Income Flow that keeps on growing! WATCH THE FREE VIDEO
        Can he explain "wanna be" guru too?
        Signature

        Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

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      • Profile picture of the author Itachi
        In my opinion , the "hype" should'nt even exist , because if peoples provide crappy content , they would theorically suffer from : refunds, bad feed back , bad reviews , "scam" , loose credibility etc , so yea i think that content is the most important thing if you provide something useful , the community will reward you consequently . This should be the number 1 golden rule to be honest .
        Signature

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        • Profile picture of the author tpw
          Originally Posted by Itachi View Post

          In my opinion , the "hype" should'nt even exist , because if peoples provide crappy content , they would theorically suffer from : refunds, bad feed back , bad reviews , "scam" , loose credibility etc , so yea i think that content is the most important thing if you provide something useful , the community will reward you consequently . This should be the number 1 golden rule to be honest .

          I know you are new here, so a lot will be forgiven.

          The majority of people who buy products here prefer to buy the hype.

          If you want to drive sales, "tell them what they want to hear, and give them what they need."
          Signature
          Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
          Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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          • Profile picture of the author Itachi
            Originally Posted by tpw View Post

            I know you are new here, so a lot will be forgiven.
            you did'nt need to pinpoint it

            so this was all some kind of sarcasm , or mind control technique ? erm i hope im not making me look as a fool

            all the chips and pocorn nom nom made me laugh by the way

            and nice Paul Myers did you write it with lemon juice ? i had to warm the back of the paper to see it .. lol
            Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    I have degrees in Psychology and I know exactly what Harlan's doing here. He's playing you all (well, not ALL but many of you) like a fiddle. Yawn in his face and tell him he's an amateur. Seriously. A smart amateur, but seriously.... AMATEUR.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      I have degrees in Psychology and I know exactly what Harlan's doing here. He's playing you all (well, not ALL but many of you) like a fiddle. Yawn in his face and tell him he's an amateur. Seriously. A smart amateur, but seriously.... AMATEUR.

      Signature
      Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
      Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        Bill, how could you?
        Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      John,
      I have degrees in Psychology and I know exactly what Harlan's doing here.
      It doesn't take a degree in psychology. I don't have one, and I had an idea just from the thread title alone.


      Paul
      Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      Seriously. A smart amateur, but seriously.... AMATEUR.
      I don't mean this is a bad way, but's it's kind of comical how Harlan has such a macho avatar yet his videos always look like he's channeling Richard Simmons.

      Quite the juxtaposition...

      ~Bill
      Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author Landon Walsh
    In the E-book i'm writing I talk alot about this very thing.

    And I agree...

    However....

    Out of all the stuff you just said...

    How does that explain your Sig?
    "It's Raining Money On Facebook! http://48hourmoneysecret
    Free NLP Communications Course at http://www.nlpcopywriting
    www.thehypnoticsecret.com http://overnight-copy
    Do NO work and make money online http://beachmillions."
    Its raining money of 'Favebook'? HAHA! Beach millions?
    Seriously...

    Are you trying to sell something here? I'm more likely to send money to my friend from Nigeria to get my millions from his late father's estate.
    Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author tj
      Originally Posted by Landon Walsh View Post

      In the E-book i'm writing I talk alot about this very thing.

      And I agree...

      However....

      Out of all the stuff you just said...

      How does that explain your Sig?


      Its raining money of 'Favebook'? HAHA! Beach millions?
      Seriously...

      Are you trying to sell something here? I'm more likely to send money to my friend from Nigeria to get my millions from his late father's estate.
      Is there any reason to repeat the argument regarding his signature again? It came up already and gives the thread an endless loop with the same arguments again and again.
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  • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
    I have this overwhelming desire to buy a widget-whacker.

    Weird.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Paul - If you are going to hide, you need a bigger tree.

      I just spent a few minutes of my life reading stuff by a person who has been educated beyond reason.
      Signature
      Every child needs a pet because every family needs an optimist

      Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world for one dog.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Dan,

    Close enough for my monitor.


    Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Paul and Dan: You are both definitely smarter than a fifth grader.
    Signature
    Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    I've got it!

    It's the secret "No Work Method" to build an online business...

    Successful Marketer Reveals The Secret
    To Building An Online Business
    While Playing With Himself On Beaches Around The World

    You do none of the work but reap ALL of the profit! Just like George Brown. Who knew?
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  • Profile picture of the author raymond c
    it would be nice if this website was kept to the ethical marketers out there and stop posting the latest get rich quick link of their clickbank software which isnt worth squat mostly( except m samurai which i like) .please lose the adds here w f ?
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    • If you read only what harland has said, every single response is about trying to put up a credible front.

      Educated (I R Smart)

      Not like Gurus (I'm better)

      Go ahead and delete me if you want (I'm a tough guy)

      less than 10 letters (teaser for you)

      If he turns around and produces a word that actually silences the crowd here, he will have a sensational day of sales.

      If he doesn't, he may be kissing his credibility goodbye for life.

      I think we have been too quick to judge him. His goal here is to take the flak from the educated members of this site and target the less vocal majority of flailing noobies. Even if 100 professional marketers call him out he will still appear to be the savior for thousands more.

      Quite an interesting ploy if he thought it out this far.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Yeah, well I have a two letter word for him - "BS"
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
      Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

      Yeah, well I have a two letter word for him - "BS"
      That's an abbreviation for a word, not a word itself.

      However, the word itself is 8 characters, which is under 10 characters. So, it does seem to meet his description.

      You may be on to something!
      Signature

      Dan's content is irregularly read by handfuls of people. Join the elite few by reading his blog: dcrBlogs.com, following him on Twitter: dcrTweets.com or reading his fiction: dcrWrites.com but NOT by Clicking Here!

      Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

        That's an abbreviation for a word, not a word itself.

        However, the word itself is 8 characters, which is under 10 characters. So, it does seem to meet his description.

        You may be on to something!
        So is it bullsh**es? With the "es" on the end?

        This is like charades but without the fun.

        Or the booze.
        Signature

        Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
    The one word that changes everything is...
    stop.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
      Originally Posted by Matt Maiden View Post

      The one word that changes everything is...
      stop.
      I thought the one word that changes everything was... change.
      Signature

      Dan's content is irregularly read by handfuls of people. Join the elite few by reading his blog: dcrBlogs.com, following him on Twitter: dcrTweets.com or reading his fiction: dcrWrites.com but NOT by Clicking Here!

      Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
    Dan, you have to stop what you are doing before you can change.

    The problem with selling crap can be changed by stopping. Buying into too many gurus, stop. Tired of marketing the old fashioned way, stop.

    The new way to market is to stop marketing.

    Just my guess.

    If we all try hard enough to come up with the word, one of us is sure to stumble onto it and it can steal his thunder

    I'm typing up my WSO right now. "Matt's Amazing Thunder Buster"
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
      Originally Posted by Matt Maiden View Post

      Dan, you have to stop what you are doing before you can change.
      I see cars change lanes all the time without stopping first.

      Often without signaling either.
      Signature

      Dan's content is irregularly read by handfuls of people. Join the elite few by reading his blog: dcrBlogs.com, following him on Twitter: dcrTweets.com or reading his fiction: dcrWrites.com but NOT by Clicking Here!

      Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
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      • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

        I see cars change lanes all the time without stopping first.

        Often without signaling either.
        You already learned something from Matt's Amazing Thunder Buster.

        Can I get a testimonial now?
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
          Originally Posted by Matt Maiden View Post

          See, you already learned something from Matt's Amazing Thunder Buster.

          Can I get a testimonial now?
          I'm going to need a full review copy first, plus I also want to know who else is leaving a testimonial before deciding whether I want to throw my name in the hat.
          Signature

          Dan's content is irregularly read by handfuls of people. Join the elite few by reading his blog: dcrBlogs.com, following him on Twitter: dcrTweets.com or reading his fiction: dcrWrites.com but NOT by Clicking Here!

          Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
    why do we keep giving him free advertising by posting his sig links on the thread...
    Signature

    Caleb Spilchen

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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Caleb Spilchen View Post

      why do we keep giving him free advertising by posting his sig links on the thread...

      Because we are laughing at his expense and helping thinking people see through his bull****...
      Signature
      Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
      Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Bill,
        Because we are laughing at his expense
        Other than the "Too few letters" thing, I am not laughing at this. Harlan is a nice guy and a very smart man. Doesn't mean I'm going to let this kind of thread pass by. I called him on it precisely because he knows better.

        But I am not laughing at his expense. And hey... I might just learn something. He's more than smart enough for that to be a possibility to keep in mind.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          But I am not laughing at his expense. And hey... I might just learn something. He's more than smart enough for that to be a possibility to keep in mind.


          Paul
          I don't think anyone is laughing at his expense, I think everyone's voicing they're opinion at his assumption that we're mugs and he has a one word answer for our cure, for being mugs.
          Signature

          Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

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        • Profile picture of the author tpw
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Bill,

          Because we are laughing at his expense
          Other than the "Too few letters" thing, I am not laughing at this. Harlan is a nice guy and a very smart man. Doesn't mean I'm going to let this kind of thread pass by. I called him on it precisely because he knows better.

          But I am not laughing at his expense. And hey... I might just learn something. He's more than smart enough for that to be a possibility to keep in mind.


          Paul

          In that case Paul, let me make one minor correction...

          Because we are laughing at our own wit in his thread

          Before this morning, I had never heard of him.

          And while you have suggested several times in the thread that he is a smart guy, I only have your word and this thread from which to make that judgment...

          I see where this might could have been a positive in an email campaign, because people would hear part one today and know to look for part two tomorrow.

          But in a forum marketing environment, it was a bonehead thing to do.

          How many posts will there be in this thread by tomorrow, when he finally decides to "enlighten us"?

          How much credibility will he have left by that time?

          How many people will he have alienated by the time he gets around to dropping his "enlightened word" on our heads?

          Like someone else in this thread stated, his "word" had better be "it", or he is going to lose credibility with strangers and fans alike...

          You know that I know that when you play a game like this in a forum, you need to allow the "tell" to surface quickly.

          He might just need a refresher course in Paul Hancox' Presell Mastery, because I honestly believe he has done himself more harm than good.

          The only saving grace I see that he is going to have going for him is that this thread will be nuked tomorrow.

          He may be a smart guy, but he ought to consider a refresher course in how to play this game.
          Signature
          Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
          Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Originally Posted by Caleb Spilchen View Post

      why do we keep giving him free advertising by posting his sig links on the thread...
      I only see that once in close to the last 50 posts. I'd hardly say we "keep giving him free advertising".
      Signature
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      ***Especially if you don't have enough time, money, or just plain HATE writing***
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
    Paul, have you thought about the two part thread precedent this might be setting?

    See Bill's (tpw) hidden message.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Matt,

      If I'd realized immediately that it was an article, I'd have just nuked it. I think there's enough useful potential to it as it stands now to leave it.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    Ok seen a ton of these types of threads, before.

    Even though it's been said before I do think Harlan has a point.

    Perhaps it's time for the gurus to go sit on top of a high mountain in India and live out there days there. Then if anyone wants to learn how to become one of them he has to go climb that mountain for days and days in the snow before coming to the guru syndicate mountain retreat where they will all be with their helicopters, concubines and long beards. When asking how to make money online they will get either "be us, like, 20 years ago" or "do this thing that worked back in 2004" or "do this thing that I paid somebody else to put together a course for and then threw my name on it" etc. etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    I once purchased a product from Yanik Silver (Public Domain Riches, or something like that). Guess he ripped me off. I have since then purchased close to $50k worth of products and services with another $5k going out monthly. So clearly I am one of the suckers OP was blowing wind about. But what about the $100k I made in the six months after I purchased Yanik's product? I know for a fact I would never of made that money if it were not for what I learned from Yanik on that purchase. Does that mean I was still ripped off by him?

    In March of 2010 I purchased an ebook package from David Tan that taught me how to optimize a website for the search engines. Was I ripped off? According to the OP I was. But what about the fact that the info I learned from that purchase has enabled me to create a $30k a month seo service business. In fact we are on pace to pass the $40k a month mark this month. I wouldn't be where I am today if I had not purchased David Tan's wso. I know that for a fact.

    So I say all that to say this...

    Hey OP...thank you for not giving me your brand of advice earlier in my career. I feel I'd be broke if you had.
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    • Profile picture of the author paulie888
      Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

      I once purchased a product from Yanik Silver (Public Domain Riches, or something like that). Guess he ripped me off. I have since then purchased close to $50k worth of products and services with another $5k going out monthly. So clearly I am one of the suckers OP was blowing wind about. But what about the $100k I made in the six months after I purchased Yanik's product? I know for a fact I would never of made that money if it were not for what I learned from Yanik on that purchase. Does that mean I was still ripped off by him?

      In March of 2010 I purchased an ebook package from David Tan that taught me how to optimize a website for the search engines. Was I ripped off? According to the OP I was. But what about the fact that the info I learned from that purchase has enabled me to create a $30k a month seo service business. In fact we are on pace to pass the $40k a month mark this month. I wouldn't be where I am today if I had not purchased David Tan's wso. I know that for a fact.

      So I say all that to say this...

      Hey OP...thank you for not giving me your brand of advice earlier in my career. I feel I'd be broke if you had.
      I step away from the computer for a few hours, and I miss all the fun and mayhem!

      You're absolutely right, it's very dangerous to make blanket statements about Gurus or courses, for that matter. Just because they're expensive doesn't automatically relegate them to the trash. It is conditioned, automatic thinking like that which will keep you poor for a lifetime.

      It boils down to the applicability of a Guru/course to your particular business model and situation. Sometimes it'll fit, and sometimes it won't. I've seen many of the Gurus get better at qualifying their prospects in their pre-sales videos and emails/material, because let's face it - who wants to end up with a ton of refunds at the end of the day because you didn't clearly communicate who your product was for?

      Let's be a little more analytical when assessing products on the market, and let's not just make vague generalizations, because that will ultimately keep us from progressing forward.

      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Here's a challenge for Harlan, and all the other people in this thread bashing "gurus"...

    Define "guru."

    Notice that I did NOT invite the folks who've avoided it. We know what those definitions will be. Teacher, person with advanced skills in a field, respected authority, etc. Just the folks who use the word like it's representative of some specific group of people, and in a negative way.


    Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    I thought it was a good post, though Internet marketing really hasn't died. In fact, the number of ecommerce websites and sales made online continues to grow every year.

    But I agree with the implicit point that people come here, and in other places, trying to learn how to make money with this thing called "Internet marketing" - and they're simply getting ripped by fraudsters.

    Those who actually make money online, selling anything from apples to zippo lighters, and who actually take the time to teach people how to create a profitable online business, are drowned out by the junk making ridiculous claims.

    On the other hand, many here would rather buy junk and the promises of quick and easy money, rather than actually spending time learning and creating something of value that can make them money.

    And they will stay poor, and clueless, as a result.

    Dr. Kindsvater

    P.S. - On that note, I'll join in hoping there is something of value that will ultimately be provided here.
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric Louviere
      Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

      I thought it was a good post, though Internet marketing really hasn't died. In fact, the number of ecommerce websites and sales made online continues to grow every year.

      But I agree with the implicit point that people come here, and in other places, trying to learn how to make money with this thing called "Internet marketing" - and they're simply getting ripped by fraudsters.

      Those who actually make money online, selling anything from apples to zippo lighters, and who actually take the time to teach people how to create a profitable online business, are drowned out by the junk making ridiculous claims.

      On the other hand, many here would rather buy junk and the promises of quick and easy money, rather than actually spending time learning and creating something of value that can make them money.

      And they will stay poor, and clueless, as a result.

      Dr. Kindsvater

      P.S. - On that note, I'll join in hoping there is something of value that will ultimately be provided here.
      Abso-freaking-lutely Counselor!
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  • Profile picture of the author Furyx2
    less competition for me...yay
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Harlan,
      They say when the student is willing, the teacher appears.

      When the student is unwilling, the teacher disappears.
      I expected better from you, sir. You know full well what that response sounds like.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Harlan,I expected better from you, sir. You know full well what that response sounds like.


        Paul
        I didn't.

        He seems to make posts like these from time to time just to stir the pot and then blames the forum members for not bowing to him.

        And yes, he is a smart guy but it's typical Harlan WF posts.

        Garrie
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      • Profile picture of the author Sam England
        I'll take door #5 for ONE MILLION please...

        No way I'm gonna read every word and every comment on this thread?

        I'll let you all tackle that for now!

        Peace Out...

        ~Sam
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  • Profile picture of the author Greg Adams
    Internet marketing hasn't died... it just continues to evolve! Just like the wild west the internet marketing community has its robber barrons, hired guns and thieves but as it continues to mature the IM community is learning what it takes to get along with your neighbor in a civilized way online. This will continue to lead to greater prosperity for all.

    Greg
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Harlan -Internet marketing died but the gurus didn't tell you that.

      They've inflated a corpse and put in in the passengers seat so they can ride in the fast lane while everyone else is stuck in traffic.

      From time to time they wave its hand to convince you it's alive.

      Let me prove it.
      And then...

      We spent the afternoon filming him to share a video of his teaching about email marketing.

      Single emails have brought in more than a million dollars without a product launch and without affiliates.
      Isn't that a bit of a contradiction?

      Are we or are we not, mean't to buy this stuff?

      Or is that the corpse waving it's hand to say it's alive?

      Sorry, I'm just using your own words.

      ...but no doubt this is just the start, I am merely ignorant.
      Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author Diane S
    Originally Posted by Harlan View Post


    Great way to make money off someone else. Bad way to run a business.

    None of these guys is looking to the future.
    Unfortunately there will always be newbies who will get taken advantage of. It may be an unethical way to run a business, but you cannot deny the business model makes money for the owners.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Garrie,

    This wasn't written just for here, though. It was a slightly edited version of an email he sent to his subscribers this morning.

    It'll be interesting to see the next edition...


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Garrie,

      This wasn't written just for here, though. It was a slightly edited version of an email he sent to his subscribers this morning.

      It'll be interesting to see the next edition...


      Paul
      I think I'm missing the point of this thread entirely.

      Bed time methinks.

      Good night all.
      Signature

      Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

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    • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Garrie,

      This wasn't written just for here, though. It was a slightly edited version of an email he sent to his subscribers this morning.

      It'll be interesting to see the next edition...


      Paul
      I understand that but because of how people replied he is taking his toys and going home. That'll show us. When he said the word was to short to post, I knew then what he was doing.

      I'm really surprised that you let it go this far.

      -g
      Signature
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      • Profile picture of the author AnitaCross
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

        They say when the student is willing, the teacher appears.

        When the student is unwilling, the teacher disappears.
        Harlan,I expected better from you, sir. You know full well what that response sounds like.


        Paul
        It would appear that Paul is too much of a gentleman to say what so many of us are thinking.

        What a cop-out!

        -Anita
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        Looking For A Short Cut To Online Retail Profits?
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        Anita
        is one of several Moderators at "Live Marketing Chat"
        LMC, mixing work and fun on Saturday nights -- Google it
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      In the last thread I posted in started by the eminent Herr Professor Doktor Kilstein, I was told that my response to everything was a personal attack, and he lamented that he couldn't filter me out. I gave him directions.

      This is an experiment to see if he did, indeed, ignore me.

      Dr. Kilstein, without doubt you are a very intelligent man and a hell of a wordsmith. Like many other very intelligent men who believe they have mastered their chosen craft, you have a way of sounding incredibly arrogant when taking to us mere mortals.

      Therefore, both other peoples' responses to you, and yours to them, have been quite predictable.

      Originally Posted by JMichaelZ View Post

      Like Mr McGuire says to Benjamin:

      I want to say one word to you. Just one word.

      Plastics.

      Wow, if I hadn't before, now I have really dated myself.
      Not only have you dated yourself, my friend, but every one of us old farts that got the reference without having to Google it...
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        In the last thread I posted in started by the eminent Herr Professor Doktor Kilstein, I was told that my response to everything was a personal attack, and he lamented that he couldn't filter me out. I gave him directions.

        This is an experiment to see if he did, indeed, ignore me.

        Dr. Kilstein, without doubt you are a very intelligent man and a hell of a wordsmith. Like many other very intelligent men who believe they have mastered their chosen craft, you have a way of sounding incredibly arrogant when taking to us mere mortals.

        Therefore, both other peoples' responses to you, and yours to them, have been quite predictable.



        Not only have you dated yourself, my friend, but every one of us old farts that got the reference without having to Google it...
        Here's to you . . .
        Signature


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  • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
    The masses flocked to the thread to kick some tyres and then they slowly left, one by one, as the tyre seller failed to show....
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by Steadyon View Post

      The masses flocked to the thread to kick some tyres and then they slowly left, one by one, as the tyre seller failed to show....
      But still more flocked by, in the hope of fresh tyres. :p
      Signature

      Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by raymond c View Post

        please lose the adds here w f ?
        Here's how to do that ... YOU buy all the available ad space, and then don't put anything in it. You get what you want, and the owner doesn't lose income. Fair deal.

        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Here's a challenge for Harlan, and all the other people in this thread bashing "gurus"...

        Define "guru."

        Notice that I did NOT invite the folks who've avoided it. We know what those definitions will be. Teacher, person with advanced skills in a field, respected authority, etc. Just the folks who use the word like it's representative of some specific group of people, and in a negative way.


        Paul
        Noticed you haven't gotten any takers, but it quieted the "guru" bashing, which I'm guessing was your purpose. Or at least one of them.

        Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

        But I agree with the implicit point that people come here, and in other places, trying to learn how to make money with this thing called "Internet marketing" - and they're simply getting ripped by fraudsters.
        Then they are fraudsters, not true marketers, no? Shouldn't the rant be against the fraudsters then, and not internet marketers or internet marketing as a whole?

        Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

        They say when the student is willing, the teacher appears.

        When the student is unwilling, the teacher disappears.
        Massive fail.
        Signature

        Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • I enjoyed the humor, but this thread should really be deleted and the OP warned for baiting like this. He just re-posted something from his email list and used it for more publicity. If I were to do something like this with one of my products I wouldn't have been surprised if I got banned.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cosmo Demopoulos
    Can we get to the end of the thread yet?
    I'm tired and starting to yawn . . .
    Signature
    Wine - bubbles and more
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      I just came back from having lunch with one of the most influential people in the world. This man literally could start wars.

      We talked about life and how being president was stressful. He just can't get enough time to practice his jump shots.

      Anyway, I can't believe how this thread turned out. I tried to teach you people and this is how I am treated?

      How dare you.

      It just shows that you are not ready for my intellect.

      I will just go back to counting my millions on the beach and making real friends on facebook.

      Hopefully, people will start posting my product links to show I am a hypocrite since my traffic isn't very good lately.

      I am going to play some xbox with Kim-Jong and laugh at how stupid you all are.

      Thanks for the two sales. haha suckers....
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        [DELETED]
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
          Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          Here at Harmonica school, we teach the importance of saying Thanks instead of clicking the button.

          So thank you Thomas.
          I clicked it for you, Bill. So, the thanks under with my name on it actually comes from Bill.

          You know, I'm remembering my school days. Sometimes, the students were unwilling, but the teacher made them interested. And, sometimes, the students were willing but the teacher just sucked.
          Signature

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          Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
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          • Profile picture of the author ExRat
            Hi,

            It's weird how things go around.

            The stuff I used to get bashed for posting is now being recycled as advertising for those who bashed.

            When the student is unwilling, the teacher disappears.
            When the teacher loses the respect and the ear of his students before the lesson has even begun, he is not worthy of calling himself a nursery assistant, let alone a teacher.

            By the way, can you clear up all of the paper airplanes before you disappear Harlan, because all of the students have f***ed off.
            Signature


            Roger Davis

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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Ya know, the sad thing about this is the number of people who missed the points being made and turned it into purely personal attacks on Harlan. If you really want to cut down on this stuff, attack the points, not the person. Or at least include the points.

              I don't like this kind of thread myself, obviously, but it's more about how it was said than what the original point might have been.

              For the folks who said he was right.... Yeah. Of course. In some instances, he certainly is. The problem is the overly broad generalization (stated almost as an absolute), and the number of emotional triggers he tried to pull in one post. When I said this was propaganda, I meant it in the literal sense. This was an attempt to move a crowd toward a logically unsound position using highly charged words and lots of hidden assumptions.

              Nasty stuff, all the way around. And one of the most educational threads in a while, for folks who want to understand forum dynamics. It's a classic.


              Paul
              Signature
              .
              Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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              • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                Ya know, the sad thing about this is the number of people who missed the points being made and turned it into purely personal attacks on Harlan. If you really want to cut down on this stuff, attack the points, not the person. Or at least include the points.
                Paul
                Paul,

                With respect, I think you missed the point.

                If you look at the people who attacked Harlan personally, you will see they are generally people who have consistently been against the kind of stuff Harlan was complaining about (by attacking it or recommending good practice).

                Harlan reminded me of the Egyptian police force - they are now whinging

                "Please let us join the revolution. We were victims of Mubarak, too, you know. We didn't want to do all that torture stuff and live in nice houses and get preferential treatment."

                Remember the trend a couple of years ago - "become sincere and people will trust you and like you (and make you rich)"?

                It's successor seems to be "mea culpa" without the "mea".

                Just because the news is good doesn't mean you shouldn't shoot the bad messenger.


                Martin
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                • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                  Hi Paul,

                  Ya know, the sad thing about this is the number of people who missed the points being made and turned it into purely personal attacks on Harlan. If you really want to cut down on this stuff, attack the points, not the person. Or at least include the points.
                  I agree with your point in general for most other threads/posters, but possibly every thread I've seen Harlan post or participate in, if anyone attacks the points he arrogantly attacks them for daring to attack his points. I'd find you some examples, but most have probably been deleted because of how they turned out.

                  The problem is the overly broad generalization (stated almost as an absolute), and the number of emotional triggers he tried to pull in one post.
                  Personally I see the problem as the fact that this whole thread is a classic waste of pixels that generally lowers the tone.

                  I'm surprised that anyone thought that anything useful would come from this regardless of what the 'word' is, therefore it's not difficult to look into the future and wager that in retrospect this will look like a hypocritical, nauseating, attention-grabbing pre-launch or something.

                  It's got almost everything that sucks - 'the death of', a withheld secret that will save us all (ignoring that most of us don't need saving), guru-bashing, reformed guru repenting, a not-so-subtle swipe at 'the clickbank gang' coming from 'the syndicate' (again), sig file hypocrisy and the icing on the cake - a title that insults anyone who has bought an IM product - almost everyone here.

                  In my opinion, the sad thing about this is that people have still got the gall to come here and belittle the group in this way. You dislike guru-bashing, but are willing to tolerate those who blatantly inspire it here.

                  Mal can't possibly be correct with his guess at 'the word' in post #181 otherwise this -

                  The solution is so new to the Warrior Forum that there isn't even a single post on it.

                  I venture to say not a single person on this forum has heard of the solution.
                  ...is a sick joke. In fact, whatever 'the word' is, the above quote is still a sick joke and generally insulting to boot.
                  Signature


                  Roger Davis

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  • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
    Shouldn't the title of this thread now be changed from:

    "How The Clueless Throw Away Their Money"

    to

    "How The Clueless Throw Away Their Apparent Reputation"

    He taught us perfectly how to do this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    I just had dinner with "the most interesting man in the world" while downing some Dos Equis. Top that.

    RoD
    Signature
    "Your personal philosophy is the greatest determining factor in how your life works out."
    - Jim Rohn
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      I just had dinner with "the most interesting man in the world" while downing some Dos Equis. Top that.

      RoD

      Thanks Rod. I had a great time at dinner.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimG
      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      I just had dinner with "the most interesting man in the world" while downing some Dos Equis. Top that.

      RoD
      Stay thirsty my friend!!

      Tim
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Steven,

    Have I told you today?


    Paul

    PS: See? I knew you were going to do that...
    Signature
    .
    Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Joel Comm gives you the word (2 days ago) - Standards for Ethical Internet Marketing
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    What sticks in my craw is why HK is allowed to consistently spam the board. Why? Because supposedly he's a "nice guy" and "intelligent". Well so am I, as it happens, but I can't get away with this stuff (although I must admit you give me a lot of leeway). But really - we've heard all this before - from the same mountain top. Gets boring after awhile and then turns into a fizzer. Harlan needs to "put up or shut up" IMO.
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  • Profile picture of the author daleron
    What is list incest?
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    • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
      Banned
      Originally Posted by daleron View Post

      What is list incest?
      Cross-promoting each other products and launches. "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours". Bit like a cartel.
      trust: a consortium of independent organizations formed to limit competition by controlling the production and distribution of a product or service; "they set up the trust in the hope of gaining a monopoly"
      wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
      George Brown says to his JV partners in an email
      Thank you for all your support so far, I could NOT have done that without any of you, and will be hitting EVERYONE back very hard.
      Voila.

      Joel Comm said the other day in a blog post -
      11) Cross-promotions and backscratching I regularly receive emails from marketers inviting me to promote their product. Invariably, I am promised a promotion from them in return. I don't even reply to these invitations any more. If you approach me in this way, your message is instantly deleted. I want to work with others based on the value they bring and not because we each have a list that we can use to make money off each other. I can't even begin to count how much money I have left on the table by being protective of those on my list. That doesn't mean I won't consider endorsing another product. It just means I am more interested in the value of your product than being asked to promote so that you will promote me. It's an extremely shallow and short-sighted approach.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nisip
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

    You are getting screwed.

    Internet marketing died but the gurus didn't tell you that.

    Surprise surprise as Gomer Pyle used to say. It reopens. The people buy it.
    The product doesn't live up to the hype. Your complaints go to a help desk and you are out the money.

    Here's the best part: two weeks later, the guru GIVES away the product you just bought as a bonus for the latest launch.

    Seriously - we are a bunch of dumb ass suckers to take this crap.

    None of these guys remotely has a "real business." They are just in the Internet biz-op business and use their little friends for some list incest.

    The only ones getting rich are THEM.

    They are teaching the same model that they learned in 2004.

    None of the stuff they are teaching works today.

    If you really know internet marketing, most of their stuff went out with the first Google Slap. But they keep teaching it as if it's the only dance in town.

    Let's look at Clickbank.

    Just about every week a new Internet Marketing program launches on Clickbank. It promises to make you a million dollars in the next 6 weeks without doing anything.

    These sales letters are full of lies. Clickbank knows it and doesn't do anything about it.
    Like the "16 year old girl" product that came out this year. It had FRAUD written in capital letters written all over the page.

    I PERSONALLY spoke to a Vice President of Clickbank and complained about the Fraud and they played dumb. I said "Dude, it's your top selling product right now. Stop playing dumb."

    But hope springs eternal right. Maybe this could work.

    And if you buy now it's just $1997.

    The truest words I read in a long time.

    Clickbank is a FRAUD.

    Internet marketing was killed because there are millions of people doing it, so the average profit from it per person is like... 50$ per month now...
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Nisip View Post

      The truest words I read in a long time.

      Clickbank is a FRAUD.

      Internet marketing was killed because there are millions of people doing it, so the average profit from it per person is like... 50$ per month now...
      Clickbank is payment processor. They're no more a fraud than Paypal or another other third party payment processor.

      Internet marketing is alive and well. If you're not experiencing success, that's about you and your situation. Your situation doesn't apply to everyone. If you're going to succeed at IM, you need to lose the illusions.
      Signature

      Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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      • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        Clickbank is payment processor. They're no more a fraud than Paypal or another other third party payment processor.

        Internet marketing is alive and well. If you're not experiencing success, that's about you and your situation. Your situation doesn't apply to everyone. If you're going to succeed at IM, you need to lose the illusions.
        Not quite true. CB is a wholesaler, if anything. From their site -
        At the time of purchase by a customer, ClickBank purchases the Product from the applicable Vendor at a wholesale price, which can vary by Product type, price, and currency, and resells the Product to the customer.
        So that being the case I would argue they have a "duty of care" to their customer and they are not just a payment processor. Harlan is right on that point. But makes me wonder - if he were at a Clickbank seminar...does this mean his products are up there too? Must check.

        Update: beachmillions isn't. haven't checked the others.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Wow, this thread sucks.
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    • Profile picture of the author J Bold
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      Wow, this thread sucks.
      ya it does, doesn't it?

      Really I think there's just not much value to the forum here beyond a pissing contest and people getting offended and jumping all over each other.

      Not much to see here for business, really, just a bunch of useless "discussion" but I suppose it is a forum...
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by redicelander View Post

        ya it does, doesn't it?

        Really I think there's just not much value to the forum here beyond a pissing contest and people getting offended and jumping all over each other.

        Not much to see here for business, really, just a bunch of useless "discussion" but I suppose it is a forum...
        And your contribution was supposed to help?
        Signature

        nothing to see here.

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      • Profile picture of the author paulie888
        Originally Posted by redicelander View Post

        ya it does, doesn't it?

        Really I think there's just not much value to the forum here beyond a pissing contest and people getting offended and jumping all over each other.

        Not much to see here for business, really, just a bunch of useless "discussion" but I suppose it is a forum...
        These threads never fail to surface with some regularity, and you can expect at least 2 or 3 of these every month.

        It just devolves into name-calling and insults, and ends up just being a waste of time and effort. There's really nothing constructive in this thread at all. I'm pretty sure it won't be long until Paul locks this up.
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        • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
          Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

          These threads never fail to surface with some regularity, and you can expect at least 2 or 3 of these every month.

          It just devolves into name-calling and insults, and ends up just being a waste of time and effort. There's really nothing constructive in this thread at all. I'm pretty sure it won't be long until Paul locks this up.
          I disagree.

          I think there are some VERY valuable lessons in this thread for people who want them.
          Signature

          nothing to see here.

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        • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
          Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

          There's really nothing constructive in this thread at all. I'm pretty sure it won't be long until
          Look a little deeper.

          If a thread generates a lot of attention on this forum,
          then as a marketer I find that extremely interesting.

          In marketing, the good old A.I.D.A. formula rules.
          (Attention, Interest, Desire and Action)

          Like it or not, this thread has grabbed a lot of people's
          attention and pretty quickly too. It's one of the most
          viewed threads currently on page one of the main
          discussion forum.

          I find that curiously interesting and instructive.

          There's lessons here on how to get attention, how to
          keep it and what not to do once you've got it.

          Dedicated to mutual success,

          Shaun
          Signature

          .

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          • Profile picture of the author Sandor Verebi
            Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

            Look a little deeper.

            If a thread generates a lot of attention on this forum,
            then as a marketer I find that extremely interesting.

            In marketing, the good old A.I.D.A. formula rules.
            (Attention, Interest, Desire and Action)

            Like it or not, this thread has grabbed a lot of people's
            attention and pretty quickly too. It's one of the most
            viewed threads currently on page one of the main
            discussion forum.

            I find that curiously interesting and instructive.

            There's lessons here on how to get attention, how to
            keep it and what not to do once you've got it.

            Dedicated to mutual success,

            Shaun
            Shaun,

            You are right, absolutely. The OP is smart enough in using the AIDA technique. And the result (this thread has 5 pages now) proves him. I don't know what's going to end: success or failure of his credibility?

            Time will tell.

            Best,

            Sandor
            Signature

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            • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
              Originally Posted by Sandor Verebi View Post

              Shaun,

              You are right, absolutely. The OP is smart enough in using the AIDA technique. And the result (this thread has 5 pages now) proves him. I don't know what's going to end: success or failure of his credibility?

              Best,

              Sandor
              True Sandor and now we know there's a webinar going down it'll be good to see if he says how great he is, by putting up one post and in 24 hours it was viewed over 4,300 times and there were well over 200 comments...

              The question is, will he say he only got 4 thanks and ridiculed in the process?

              Probably not.
              Signature

              Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

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              • Profile picture of the author Sandor Verebi
                Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                ...
                The question is, will he say he only got 4 thanks and ridiculed in the process?

                Probably not.
                Richard,

                Right, I also think that he'll not do that. But... we don't know what kind of audience he has at that webinar.

                As we know, all the old joke will be a new to every newborns.

                Cheers,

                Sandor
                Signature

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            • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
              I am htiking we need to get out more and see some of the world outside of marketing and how marketing is a microcosm of the world as a whole.

              Here is a quote from Marshall McLuhan:

              "Hence in Understanding Media, McLuhan describes the "content" of a medium as a juicy piece of meat carried by the burglar to distract the watchdog of the mind.

              This means that people tend to focus on the obvious, which is the content, to provide us valuable information, but in the process, we largely miss the structural changes in our affairs that are introduced subtly, or over long periods of time.

              As society's values, norms and ways of doing things change because of the technology, it is then we realize the social implications of the medium. These range from cultural or religious issues and historical precedents, through interplay with existing conditions, to the secondary or tertiary effects in a cascade of interactions that we are not aware of."


              This was written back in the 60's when the rate of perceived time pasage was still measured using the pardigm of the Industrial Age. Now we use a much faster perceived rate of time passage. And a thread that lasts for an entire day in a forum is more or less the equivalent of a year or more.

              This thread is a primo example of distributed social marketing in action.
              Signature


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        • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
          Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

          These threads never fail to surface with some regularity, and you can expect at least 2 or 3 of these every month.

          It just devolves into name-calling and insults, and ends up just being a waste of time and effort. There's really nothing constructive in this thread at all. I'm pretty sure it won't be long until Paul locks this up.
          Luckily they don't give Paul Chow a lock button

          Just a thought guys... Whenever a thread goes like this, towards page 3-5 people just start discussing the fact that this is a thread, instead of the actual topic of the thread.

          Anyways, just an interesting transition.

          Good morning thread friends

          Caleb
          Signature

          Caleb Spilchen

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          • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
            Guru bashing, AKA "ego" bashing or celebrity bashing works.

            A lot of "guru's" use it.

            Obviously the target market will not be the few who post to this thread, but hundreds - or thousands? who feel the same as the OP, and just read.

            Not making much money, tired and fed up of the whole "biz-op" scene, and even more so by those who do make a few bucks - and now claim do know everything.

            Not saying Harlan has the "answer" - or he don't - playing to people's emotions is the point here.
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  • Profile picture of the author niffybranco
    I do not agree that internet marketing is dead. Internet marketing is MARKETING plain and simple the internet is just a tool used to implement it. Although there are methods that are unique to the internet the core principles of marketing are the same across all platforms. To succeed in internet marketing you need to understand the core principles.
    1. Proper Market Research (What do people want)
    2. Develop and sell products and services to customers (give people what they want)
    3. Advertise to further enhance sales.
    4. Build Strong customer relationships and create value for their customers and for themselves.
    Now do a lot of marketers use these principles when selling in their different niche markets? Of course they do.

    When marketing in the make money online niche the customer is an entirely different beast 90% of people that enter the gates of the make money online enterprise went to bed and fell down the rabbit hole. They come in with a dream they want to make money FAST, and this is evident even on the warrior forum. How often do we see posts like.

    I Need to make $5000 in 3 days
    I am a newbie how do i make $xxxxxxxx today.

    Ant these are from newbies on the warrior forum where there is so much free information that can make you money if you put in a little WORK.

    All some smart marketers are doing is packaging the same principles that work and making it look like a BIG SHINY RED PLAY BUTTON that offers all the solutions. Is this right ? Well it depends on what side of the fence you are standing.

    A marketer complaining about rehashed stuff just sounds funny to me. The principles of marketing have remained the same ever since selling commodities as opposed to creating them became a means of earning for some people. The methods and ideas being sold in the make money online niche all have the same principle.

    find or create a product
    sell the product
    keep customers happy

    The differences between all these courses is in their methods not their principles.

    Schools and universities all over the world teach rehashed stuff, It's the same principles of physics that are taught in a $40,000 dollar a year university that are being taught in a $9,000 a yr university.
    Do you see people standing in front of these institutions chanting and carrying placards with No To Rehashed content boldly written on them.
    Of course there are perks to going to an expensive university, same as there are perks in paying for an expensive IM course like getting to possibly know and hang out with top marketers.

    Does everybody that goes on to buy these expensive course go on to make money ? Hell no , same way not everybody that goes to an expensive university will become successful in life in fact people drop out. Same way a lot of people never follow through with a system they bought before chasing the next BIG RED SHINY BUTTON that comes along.
    But those that are determined to stick through the learning process and go on to implement the methods the learnt usually end up being successful.

    Even i had this problem i bought this course and that course when i started, quick to chase the next miracle pill. Was it the fault of the marketers for promising me what worked if i stuck to it ? NO. It was my fast profits with little work mentality. Just like a lot of people do i blamed every couse out there and not myself.

    After 8 months of hopping around like a frog on steroids I decided to stick to a method and make it work. Guess what i made just about $600 the following month. i worked the method and improved my marketing skills as i went along , now i have a business that not only sustains me but is growing from strength to strength.
    Every now and then I rummage through my hard drive and go through course that I paid for but never implemented, guess what they would have worked if i stuck to them? How do i know ? Cause i am implementing those same PRINCIPLES in my business today.

    Don't get me wrong there are some extremely unethical marketers out there, same as there are unethical traders in the stock market and you will find shady characters in almost every sector of society.

    But coming out and calling every successful internet marketer A.K.A a GURU a liar is wrong. If you have truly tested a program or know of people who have tested a program where the content is total B.S then let us know of such specific programs and also report such SCAMS to the proper authorities.

    Starting a thread like this will only hurt the struggling newbie who is so close to making his first dollar. We all know the feeling that first dollar gives , when you SCREAM YEAH I can do this S**T. That for most people is the point that proves to them they can be an internet marketer. A newbie, who is just a week away from banking his first dollar reads this thread and goes yeah this stuff don't work and gives up do you honestly think you just helped him ?
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  • Profile picture of the author Gene Pimentel
    My head hurts.
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  • The word is:

    "strategery".
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    So it's a webinar HK is flogging. Just got the email. All this to beat up a webinar. Sorry - the word is "spamming".
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      How could that be? Spamming - on a forum?

      By someone so brilliant and talented who knows important people? Surely you jest. Pronouncements have been made.

      There is deeper meaning, hidden messages, a "word" yet to be revealed ....and some claim they can't wait to see the second list email posted here. Some of the people all of the time....and the rest of us are too ignorant to see the underlying importance. Righto. Got it.

      It's true people stop at train wrecks and auto accident sites - but it's to view the carnage, not to praise the drivers.

      kay
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      Every child needs a pet because every family needs an optimist

      Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world for one dog.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kierkegaard
    In all things there is what APPEARS to be going on and what is ACTUALLY going on.

    This is a given in ALL areas.

    The OP starts a posts to PROMOTE something he's got going on.

    It is a very EASY thread to add a comment to (unlike one asking for technical information for example).

    So lot's of people DO make an answer SO as a way of getting their SIGS noticed.

    The thread gets BIGGER and other people feel themselves SUCKED in.

    GOOD for the OP who gets his name mentioned.

    Good OPPORTUNITY for new posts displaying those SIGS again.

    There has be a lot talk of losing credibility. This is nonsense. What you need to be is NOTICED so that you become someone people have HEARD of.

    Most of the posts written by the less FAMOUS or INFAMOUS members will be skim read or not even read at all. (like this one)

    There are basically 3 groups of people on this forum:

    NEWBIES
    |
    PEOPLE IN BETWEEN
    |
    PEOPLE LOOKING TO MAKE MONEY FROM NEWBIES

    and to answer the question about defining GURUs...

    A guru (or teacher) is someone who offers themselves up to the forum as a candidate for appreciate as a guru.

    Spotting them, as others have already pointed out, is easy as spotting a duck. If it looks like one and quacks like one it is one. However, as we know from nature, looking like a animal and sounding like an animal never necessarily means that you are indeed that animal.
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  • Profile picture of the author kevinfar
    Great great stuff ! People are still not willing to do the work and want the push button solution - which doesn't exist - and will gladly try and buy this solution even if all of their bs sensors are on a high.

    As for the clickbank argument, it's a pity and a shame. Nowadays, there are so many 37 dollar products that promise the world and deliver nothing, it's unbelievable.

    Thanks for the post!

    Kevin
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  • Profile picture of the author KatieWilliams
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author nando1125
      This thread is still alive? I thought it died out yesterday when I couldnt find it

      Stop feeding the troll :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        Like it or not, this thread has grabbed a lot of people's attention and pretty quickly too. It's one of the most viewed threads currently on page one of the main discussion forum.

        I find that curiously interesting and instructive.
        Originally Posted by Caleb Spilchen View Post

        Whenever a thread goes like this, towards page 3-5 people just start discussing the fact that this is a thread, instead of the actual topic of the thread.
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        It's true people stop at train wrecks and auto accident sites - but it's to view the carnage, not to praise the drivers.
        It is the train wreck syndrom in action mostly with threads like this.

        But I do have a feeling I know what the "Word" is.

        It's "Engineer".

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  • Profile picture of the author OnlineMasterMind
    Harlan,

    You're right.

    I am getting screwed.

    Glad I found this thread... I just bought beach millions.

    Thank you for saving me.

    Goodbye.
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    • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
      Before anyone completely dismisses this thread as worthless.

      Paul Myers was right about one thing, you can learn something here.
      I cannot speak for him or any of the others, as far as what he means by that.


      My take is...
      This is a very good example of hype and presell.
      I have already given kudos to Harlan for that

      What is irking me, is the hypocrisy and the inflated ego it takes to come here and rail against the very thing and products that are in his sig.

      For those that don't know, this is one in a series of these threads.


      NOW

      It just reminds me of what John Kruk ( a major league baseball player and notorious comedian, who lost a testicle to cancer) told the Phillies.

      "If your not gonna let me play...
      I'm just going to take my ball and go home"
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  • Profile picture of the author ~Davor Debrecin~
    Signature
    MY CV ❱❱❱ 12+ yrs exp, 7-fig revenues, 40 employees.. 39 actually, someone just left the company, f**k!
    I like to innovate stuff and babble IM stuff into a camera:
    I do this on the side, will try to sell you something, be sure of it!
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    • Profile picture of the author Collette
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      Wow, this thread sucks.
      Originally Posted by redicelander View Post

      ya it does, doesn't it?

      ...Not much to see here for business, really, just a bunch of useless "discussion" ...
      Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

      ...There's really nothing constructive in this thread at all. I'm pretty sure it won't be long until Paul locks this up.
      On the contrary, there are at least two lessons to be learned here: How to gather a crowd, and how to burn a bridge.

      Originally Posted by Harlan View Post

      ...the teacher disappears.
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Harlan,I expected better from you, sir. You know full well what that response sounds like.

      Paul
      Yup. It sounds like a bridge burning.
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  • Profile picture of the author MarthaD.
    WOW!!! This is quiet a thread! I do find some validity to the original post but... it is ironic to condemn with one hand while promoting with the other.
    I've lost count of all the "magic bullets", the time, the money I've spent, etc. jumping from one thing to another. But... in all fairness, some, maybe even many, of them probably are very good and have worked for some. The main component though, for anything, is one's self - one does have to take action and I must admit, I haven't always done so - that's not the fault of the program, course or whatever it is I purchased.
    I personally do not believe that internet marketing is dead - far from it, more and more people are trying their hand at it all the time. It is still evolving and I believe the difficulty of making a decent income from it is in many ways a positive sign. It forces one to deliver a truly quality product, market in a more verifiable way, and cut all the BS hype. Unfortunately, the BS hype does sell and I guess many of us still need to "kiss a lot of frogs" before finding that "prince"!!!
    I've definitely become pretty jaded myself after "kissing so many frogs" but I'm not giving up! I have found something that I am now working on and truly motivates and excites me enough to actually "take action" - this is the key for me, something that really captures my interest enough to work through the hurdles and the BS. I'm no longer expecting it to be a "magic bullet" - so maybe all those "frogs" have been of benefit to me afterall! I must admit, while they didn't work for me as I expected, I did learn quite a bit from each and every one that I hope I'll now be able to piece together into a true "prince charming"!!!!!!
    To sum it up, you can "kill" all the gurus you want but the saying "let the buyer beware" still applies! We all still need to take responsibility, educate ourselves, and be more discerning in our decisions.
    That's my 2 cents anyway!
    Signature

    MarthaD.

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  • Profile picture of the author WebPen
    Wow, I can't believe this thread is still going on from yesterday....

    Guess Harlan really does know how to stir the pot a bit.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
      Originally Posted by AYoungMillionaire View Post

      Guess Harlan really does know how to stir the pot a bit.
      Anyone can stir the pot.

      Whether or not what's in the pot turns out to be edible remains to be seen.
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      Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sandor Verebi
        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

        Anyone can stir the pot.

        Whether or not what's in the pot turns out to be edible remains to be seen.
        Yeah Dan, the proof of the pudding is in the eating - as we know.

        Cheers,

        Sandor
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
      Originally Posted by AYoungMillionaire View Post

      Wow, I can't believe this thread is still going on from yesterday....

      Guess Harlan really does know how to stir the pot a bit.

      Just post something controversial, watch all the vets chime in and keep the thread on the first page for a few days - not rocket science.

      How many people read past the first few posts on a forum? or past the first page? Kind of like searching past the first page of search results.

      Not many on this thread will be a customer - but they are not the target market ... how many others will read the OP and and click the sig out of curiosity?

      Short attention span + missing the irony of the sig = perfect customer.

      Laughing all the way to the bank ....
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      • Profile picture of the author Collette
        Originally Posted by Eric Lorence View Post

        ...
        Short attention span + missing the irony of the sig = perfect customer.

        Laughing all the way to the bank ....
        i.e. The clueless and their money are parted?

        Duly noted.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nathy Curiel
    Sometimes I feel there is no etchic in IM.
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  • Profile picture of the author neodarth
    Is quite a long thread!
    got nothing to add...

    but I just wanted to be part of this

    lol
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    ==> Negocios Estables en la Web Internet marketing en español.

    ==> Internet Marketing Newbie Created for IM virgins
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by neodarth View Post

      Is quite a long thread!
      got nothing to add...

      but I just wanted to be part of this
      lol ... history in the making, eh?
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    Let's show Harlan up and each of us guess three times what we think the word is. Let's show him we're not a bunch of dummies. I pick: leprechaun, hemophilia and larynx.

    Was I right Harlan?
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    • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
      Not for the first two at least.

      It has to be less than 10 charachters. That is why he couldn't disclose it to the world on this forum.

      Maybe Admin could change the settings for just one day to allow the presentation of the word to occur.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Steadyon View Post

        Not for the first two at least.

        It has to be less than 10 charachters. That is why he couldn't disclose it to the world on this forum.

        Maybe Admin could change the settings for just one day to allow the presentation of the word to occur.
        Oh ... Oh ... I got it. Less than 10 characters and sums this thread up
        ... bull****

        But honestly, it's been said that Harlan is intelligent and nice and all, but this thread is just typical of the types of threads Harlan posts. Self-promotional to the max, intended to get sig file attention. The ironic part of it is, they often end this way because his message does not match the links in his signature. It always smacks of the pot calling the kettle black.
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        • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          Oh ... Oh ... I got it. Less than 10 characters and sums this thread up
          ... bull****

          But honestly, it's been said that Harlan is intelligent and nice and all, but this thread is just typical of the types of threads Harlan posts. Self-promotional to the max, intended to get sig file attention. The ironic part of it is, they often end this way because his message does not match the links in his signature. It always smacks of the pot calling the kettle black.
          LOL. I guessed similar, but my word was "fullash*te": bang on ten characters!
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          • Profile picture of the author Roy Penrod
            I know the one word that should have been present ... RESPECT. Respect for your audience. It goes a long way in developing trust with them. Hey, there's another word.

            Roy
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