WF Police Task Force Initiative

16 years ago

Interesting...but what happens when a scammer gets on the inside?

Originally Posted by Jared Alberghini

My crazy idea... but it just might work...

OK, I'm sure everyone has noticed the rise in recent scammers/wso thieves/download sites/etc... and they are getting more clever by the second... history shows with any growing community, it's only going to increase.

Just think back for a moment to the wild west... first came the 'out of control cowboys', then came government... mayors... then came the police task forces... public officials that kept order within the community (volunteers voted in by the community).

The same needs to happen here at the WF (since it is no different, and the community is expanding exponentially.)

The mods are doing their best to keep up, but this community is growing at such a rapid pace, there needs to be something other than the mayor/officials to keep the peace... we need some detectives and police.

There are many senior warriors that are doing their best to investigate suspicious activities, but have no way to warn other warriors of exact details publicly due to the TOS of the WF...

What I propose is a WF Police Task Force, with their own private forum that the 'elected police' gain access to and are able to privately share their suspicions... and facts... of who's a scammer, who's providing illegal downloads to WSO's, etc... to serve and protect the entire warrior community. Somehow, there would be a way for the 'police' to warn others of scammers, not sure how that would work exactly... let me know your ideas...

I'm just thinking this is a no-brainer evolution to this online community... since that's how real world communities work, you have your government officials that state the rules, then you have your police task force that enforce those rules...

We already have our government/mods in place... now we just need the task force...

P.S. I vote for Bev as head of the WF CIA

- Jared

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Kay King

16 years ago

That's going too far. There are several of us who spot some scammers quickly just because we've seen them before and recognize them. It's not necessary to name them to others - just to report them so they are deleted. There are PM's that go back and forth about some of this but the point is to identify accurately and report a problem.

I don't think there are more violators - but the official Mods kept up with them well on the old forum and members here seem to often argue in posts rather than reporting the offender and ignoring him.

You say "the mods are doing their best to keep up" - but WE ARE the mods here now. It is up to members here to report spam, blatant promotions, etc when they see them. It's also up to us to know the rules so that we report accurately rather than reporting threads we don't agree with.

Report posts that violate forum rules by using the "!" icon. A few reports - and poof - it's gone. The point is to participate in keeping the forum "clean". You can also send a PM to a new person if you think they are in error rather than deliberately ignoring forum rules - or give an infraction to them.

Not wise to set up anything that purports to "protect" people - it's a public forum and a big internet. Members needs to use due diligence and some common sense when deciding what to buy - and who to believe.

kay

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globalpro

16 years ago

Personally I think the current way of doing things works well. Members policing their own. While I agree it's necessary to keep some sort of order in the growth that's taking place, there also needs to be a balance with 'Free Expression'.

I think most, if not all, of the people that want to be here will help to maintain order, structure and decorum.

The best bet is to do like Kay is saying and make a quick click on the 'report post' button.

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John

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Jason Pereira

16 years ago

I think (and this is just an opinion) that giving certain posters - a few of those with say, 2,000 - 10,000 posts - the ability to instantly nuke threads or posts would help. It's unlikely (not impossible, but unlikely) that a scammer would last so long on here without being banned, considering that this is a marketer forum and marketers on the whole are more apt to know when someone is trying to screw them over.

I'm not too sure how the report function works - if only one person reports a post, does that mean no one else sees it? I'm having an issue with a serial refunder at the moment - someone that buys the product, downloads all bonuses and then immediately asks for a refund, and threatens to post rubbish in all threads should you not comply. Luckily I'm not weak, but he's done this to a few other warriors. Is there a quicker way to get this user banned - he's done this to seven Warriors publicly and who knows how many privately that have complied.

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Jared Alberghini

16 years ago

But you can't click the report post button when you find a website that is illegally distributing WSO's... and you can't simply post the url here to warn people their products are being shared illegally... ultimately spreading the virus...

There is much more to police than just posts here... that directly effects the warrior members...

Just take one of our own warrior's name and shame wall website for example... a public place to oust people that have scammed others... that's a good start, but in my opinion, not nearly enough to win the battle we are up against...

- Jared

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Jared Alberghini

16 years ago

Originally Posted by NathanFalkner

I'd also like to see a WF Army, Navy, and Air Force take shape
in the weeks ahead.

I'm sure everyone that has had their WSO's stolen/pirated recently would agree with you Nathan

- Jared

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Bev Clement

16 years ago

There is already a Name N Shame Wall| New Name N Shame Wall Bolg here to help people name individuals or companies who shammed and scammed them out of money, property, or intellectual property., we don't need another one.

The mods do a good enough job, but too many people keep praising the scammers and then they keep scamming people.

Not all scammers are new, some here are people who have been on the board for a time.

And no I'm not interested in the idea, got enough to do running my own business

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Careygee

16 years ago

Bev,
Are the URLs you list below a "Sticky" some where on this forum?
If not, can we create a "Shame/Scammer" Sticky for this forum?
It may be a mute point, just my thoughts.
Carey

Originally Posted by Bev Clement

There is already a Name N Shame Wall| New Name N Shame Wall Bolg here to help people name individuals or companies who shammed and scammed them out of money, property, or intellectual property., we don't need another one.

The mods do a good enough job, but too many people keep praising the scammers and then they keep scamming people.

Not all scammers are new, some here are people who have been on the board for a time.

And no I'm not interested in the idea, got enough to do running my own business

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Kay King

16 years ago

But you can't click the report post button when you find a website that is illegally distributing WSO's... and you can't simply post the url here to warn people their products are being shared illegally... ultimately spreading the virus...

You can't for good reason - this isn't a place to police the internet and file sharing sites - it's a forum for marketers. We do a pretty good job of warning each other when we find illegal distribution - but it's not going to stop and time spent trying to be an "enforcer" is better spent on our business efforts.

Jason -

As I recall, the report system is weighted. I don't know the details and if I did I wouldn't publicize it - but it's not possible for someone with few posts to "nuke" a thread easily. Long term members were given more weight in the equation if I understood Allen's original explanation correctly.

As for "stickies" - Admin owns/runs the forum and thankfully is cautious about adding more stickies. I've seen some forums with a full page of "stickies" on every section and it's quickly too much for anyone to read and hard to find the new threads in the section.

kay

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Jared Alberghini

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

You can't for good reason - this isn't a place to police the internet and file sharing sites - it's a forum for marketers. We do a pretty good job of warning each other when we find illegal distribution - but it's not going to stop and time spent trying to be an "enforcer" is better spent on our business efforts.

That's why I referenced the name and shame website in my initial post... that's a great start, but it doesn't seem to provide a regularly updated solution for those who are having their wso's pirated... it just shows the names of people who have scammed others... taken the money and run type of deal... it has nothing to do with software being pirated...

to all who are ambitious enough... this is a niche that needs a solution to...

I'm sure all those who are upset about seeing their WSO's free for download somewhere agree with me...

- Jared

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Bev Clement

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Jared Alberghini

That's why I referenced the name and shame website in my initial post... that's a great start, but it doesn't seem to provide a regularly updated solution for those who are having their wso's pirated... it just shows the names of people who have scammed others... taken the money and run type of deal... it has nothing to do with software being pirated...

to all who are ambitious enough... this is a niche that needs a solution to...

I'm sure all those who are upset about seeing their WSO's free for download somewhere agree with me...

- Jared

No wrong assumption there. Just because we get upset with seeing our WSO being downloaded for free doesn't mean we agree with you either

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Jared Alberghini 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Bev Clement

No wrong assumption there. Just because we get upset with seeing our WSO being downloaded for free doesn't mean we agree with you either

Hey Bev, I'm not asking anyone to agree with me... I am just trying to help...

I have seen so many people very distraught over the past few weeks over seeing their wso's being pirated, being scamed, etc, and they didnt' know where to turn for answers as to how to stop it, so I saw a problem and tried to provide my 'crazy idea' of a solution...

I just think it has been getting exponentially out of hand, and needed some attention...

I know my ideas are 'crazy' and would take a bit of effort, but I'm just trying to help the community evolve.

- Jared
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Simon_Sezs

16 years ago

Too much attention is spent worrying about what is not in your direct control and personally, I believe that energy could be used to do what this forum is really about...marketing....

Personally, I can't imagine anyone who is running a business would want the job of running a task force. If you use common sense, in most cases, you won't get scammed.

As far as warez forums and things like it that basically steal your works, the people on these forums aren't very likely to purchase your stuff anyways and your customers aren't likely to be searching for things this way either. If anyone wants to do battle with the people who run these forums, have at it. As far as I am concerned, it ain't a war worth fighting and in the end it won't stop people from illegally downloading stuff.

Just my 2 cents though. I want to blow chunks everytime I waste my time reading a thread where it is basically complaining about something that has been around long before the internet even existed....talk about a waste of time...

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Mike McBride

16 years ago

I don't think there are more violators - but the official Mods kept up with them well on the old forum and members here seem to often argue in posts rather than reporting the offender and ignoring him.

You say "the mods are doing their best to keep up" - but WE ARE the mods here now. It is up to members here to report spam, blatant promotions, etc when they see them. It's also up to us to know the rules so that we report accurately rather than reporting threads we don't agree with.

Kay is absolutely right. The main problem, though, is that too many people here are either too new, gullible, or greedy to recognize the crap posts/offers, or choose to ignore it by sticking their head in the sand - or up their ass.

It doesn't go away on it's own, folks.

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John Taylor

16 years ago

Oh yeah, right, we form a vigilante group
and find a rope, a nice tall tree and we get
all fired up and. STOP!

Thieves and scammers are present in any
community. If you can prove that someone
is a thief, take your evidence to the proper
authorities. Vigilanteism is just as wrong as
theft.

John

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Jim M

16 years ago

Originally Posted by John Taylor

Oh yeah, right, we form a vigilante group
and find a rope, a nice tall tree and we get
all fired up and. STOP!

Thieves and scammers are present in any
community. If you can prove that someone
is a thief, take your evidence to the proper
authorities. Vigilanteism is just as wrong as
theft.

John

Well said John!

Having grown up and spent 13 years as a Police Officer in Northern Ireland I know quite a bit about vigilante groups. We could have virtual tarring and feathering after which the offender get tied to a virtual lampost.....

As any community grows and expands there will always be people there who are happy to take advantage of these less wary individuals.

However this community has the capability to 'police' WSO's and offers simply by the comments on any thread. Anyone doing their due dilligence before making a purchase will see the evidence and make a purchase (or not) based on weighing up what they find - same as in the real world.

I've only been active here for a relatively short time, but it I don't think I've seen too many negative comments on offers, perhaps when we buy something which we feel is poor value we should be more vociferous in our responses instead of tending to 'put it down to experience' attitude many will have.

I know that this approach in itself can be difficult because what is great info and guidance to a newcomer will be old and stale to an old timer.

The bottom line is that in any community where there are enough 'good guys' - the bad will eventually be outed... their only purpose is to make money and they won't hang around if people aren't giving them any.

Just my tuppenceworth...

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Glenn Grundberg

16 years ago

Originally Posted by NathanFalkner

I'd also like to see a WF Army, Navy, and Air Force take shape
in the weeks ahead.

HEY: What About The MARINES?

I nominate BigMike as Commandant Of The WF CORPS.

But As A Navy Vet, I Get To Be An ADMIRAL. :p

Anchors Aweigh, My Lads...

Admiral Gman!

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Glenn Grundberg

16 years ago

Ok, Ok...I don't want my only post on an issue this serious to be a flippant one, so here's an addendum...

You seem to be asking us to set up to police the Internet, as you reference here:

But you can't click the report post button when you find a website that is illegally distributing WSO's... and you can't simply post the url here to warn people their products are being shared illegally... ultimately spreading the virus...

There is much more to police than just posts here... that directly effects the warrior members...

Big job, man...and I've got a business to run! Much better to leave this whole issue up to "Personal Responsibility", I think. Here's what I mean by that...

When you create and release a product into the wild, you take on certain risks. One of these is the fact that your baby MAY wind up being pirated. Now there are certain steps you can take to Mitigate These Risks.

First, Secure Your Products- use DLGuard, etc...Password Protection...there are many ways to keep the "honest people honest". The dishonest ones? Well, they will ALWAYS figure out a way around it. That's their mindset, and that will NEVER change. Never. It's a wiring problem...

Second, Keep YOUR Eyes open- periodically search for your product name out in the "Wild West" as you term it. If you find it being shared illegally, Take Action And Get It Stopped. YOU.

That's what I mean by "Personal Responsibility". YOU handle it. It's YOUR Product. It's YOUR problem. You brought it home...YOU feed it!

Now, I know that attitude is going to get me flamed, but that's ok. I have a VERY thick skin...and that's another thing you need to develop to survive in this business

Now the caveat: I personally notify any Warrior by mail or PM who's product I see being whored out on warez sites or illegally shared for free on forums, etc. that I sometimes wander into during research expeditions. And I, like MANY others here, have been doing this for YEARS. So...the "White Hat Cabal" that you envision Already Exists to some degree.

And if we all make a point of doing that when we encounter a product being raped, it will help. Indeed, it's an admirable thing to want to help others, and good Karma too!

But to ask us to set up a formal "Police State" is a bit naive.

Ok...Soapbox is vacant again.

Gman

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Jim M

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Glenn Grundberg

Ok, Ok...I don't want my only post on an issue this serious to be a flippant one, so here's an addendum...

You seem to be asking us to set up to police the Internet, as you reference here:

Big job, man...and I've got a business to run! Much better to leave this whole issue up to "Personal Responsibility", I think. Here's what I mean by that...

When you create and release a product into the wild, you take on certain risks. One of these is the fact that your baby MAY wind up being pirated. Now there are certain steps you can take to Mitigate These Risks.

First, Secure Your Products- use DLGuard, etc...Password Protection...there are many ways to keep the "honest people honest". The dishonest ones? Well, they will ALWAYS figure out a way around it. That's their mindset, and that will NEVER change. Never. It's a wiring problem...

Second, Keep YOUR Eyes open- periodically search for your product name out in the "Wild West" as you term it. If you find it being shared illegally, Take Action And Get It Stopped. YOU.

That's what I mean by "Personal Responsibility". YOU handle it. It's YOUR Product. It's YOUR problem. You brought it home...YOU feed it!

Now, I know that attitude is going to get me flamed, but that's ok. I have a VERY thick skin...and that's another thing you need to develop to survive in this business

Now the caveat: I personally notify any Warrior by mail or PM who's product I see being whored out on warez sites or illegally shared for free on forums, etc. that I sometimes wander into during research expeditions. And I, like MANY others here, have been doing this for YEARS. So...the "White Hat Cabal" that you envision Already Exists to some degree.

And if we all make a point of doing that when we encounter a product being raped, it will help. Indeed, it's an admirable thing to want to help others, and good Karma too!

But to ask us to set up a formal "Police State" is a bit naive.

Ok...Soapbox is vacant again.

Gman

Hi Glenn,

I agree with you about notifying people when you find their stuff 'has been left out in the street' - it's the right thing to do. But you know what. I spent a few weeks researching my Online Theft Exposed product, and came across dozens of marketers stuff - thats why I made the videos etc, so that those who don't know any better could track and secure their products.

But the bottom line is this, I notified many top marketers as well as many newer marketers about what I had found - only one guy whose membership site I got into without paying even bothered to get back to me.

Why wouldn't someone at least say 'thanks for letting me know' - or are they just making too much money too care?

I can see this topic could go on and on....

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joblythe

16 years ago

But As A Navy Vet, I Get To Be An ADMIRAL. :p

Anchors Aweigh, My Lads...

Never mind just the Lads . . .

Can I be "Chief PRETTY Officer"??

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Glenn Grundberg 16 years ago

Originally Posted by joblythe

Never mind just the Lads . . .

Can I be "Chief PRETTY Officer"??

Perhaps...But Admirals require "visual evidence" to consider such a promotion
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TheToolWiz

Banned 16 years ago

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Mark Coverdale 16 years ago

Bring back the old mob mentality hey?

What ever happened to just changing the channel?

If you don't like the thread or if you think its a spam post or scam, then don't take part in it. Posts get deleted because people don't like the subject or think its off topic. This thread has nothing to do with internet marketing, yet it lives in the main internet marketing discussion forum.

Double standards and the fact that a group of marketers think they should be running the forum as they see fit because they have a couple thousand posts has got me disillusioned at the moment.

ITS A PUBLIC FORUM. PEOPLE HAVE OPINIONS. THATS WHAT THIS FORUM IS BASED ON. OPINIONS.

Admin has provided people with a place to share information, give marketing tips and generally help each other out, yet some people are worried about policing it. Get real, if you have time to police a public forum all day then you really mustn't have much going on in your "online business".

I feel like I'm in the school yard at the moment, one wrong move and someone will dob you in to the teacher.

Okay, I'm cool now.
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Allen Graves

16 years ago

NO WAY!

I've been the object of a witch hunt here before, as have several other ethical marketers. If there were a task force, I would only suspect that this would happen again to a member who has good intentions and simply doesn't realize they are doing anything wrong...if, in fact they are doing anything wrong in the first place!

And don't say that they would be given a chance to change...I know from experience that it just doesn't work that way.

And why should they change? Because someone else thinks they should? Comply with the police or begone? Not really a good idea, if you ask me.

When I first joined this forum years ago under a different username that was n/a'd, I was told that it was a "Good Ole Boys Club," and it appeared to be so. But things have changed - please don't bring back power hungry, arrogant people to decide on their own who should or should not be participating here. It would be a shame.

I think that over the last year I have more than proven myself to be an ethical and beneficial member at this forum. My intentions are indeed good ones. If that old task force is brought back I'd be labeled a scammer and n/a'd within a day.

Go figure.

AL

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Bev Clement

16 years ago

I have a suggestion, instead of yet another thread about setting up a group who will police the internet for you, why not set up the group and do it yourself? It is always easier to get other people to do the work than do it yourself.

Jared I didn't say you asked anyone to agree with you, you made the statement that all who had their products downloaded would agree with you, which is a big assumption.

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Black Hat Cat

Banned 16 years ago

EDIT: It could be as simple as a small private group that does basic monitoring and if someone's product/wso is found at an illegal download site, they could send the owner of that product a simple message... hey I spotted your WSO at XXX warez site, you should contact them and request removal...

You can do this now, without forming a private group. If you find someone's product being shared illegally, you don't need the permission of a group to alert the owner of that product.

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Paul Myers

16 years ago

Simon,

As far as warez forums and things like it that basically steal your works, the people on these forums aren't very likely to purchase your stuff anyways and your customers aren't likely to be searching for things this way either.

Both of those statements are incorrect, to a degree that actually matters.

While it's not a majority, there is a significant percentage of people in this market who will buy a product only if they can't find it on a warez site first, and an attempt to guess the thank-you page URL after that.

If you allow certain things to happen, you can watch it for yourself.

Paul

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Eric Lorence 16 years ago

There is also a very real liability issue, in the form of a defamation lawsuit if your wrong.

The system has checks and balances that work pretty well, why mess with it?
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