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Blogging and Giving Away Free Stuff is a Bad Business Model

by jamawebinc
89 replies
This thread was inspired by a thread from another user that I responded to. I'd like to expand on my response and turn it into another thread.

A well known person who does participate in the "how to make money online" market, did away with their free blog.

This led to confusion by someone who obviously followed this marketer closely and I'm sure a bunch of other people who follow him as well. This is what their thread, that I referenced in the opening sentence, was about...the confusion they were experiencing over this persons decision to do away with providing free content.

I totally understand where this confusion comes from.

It can be very confusing when someone you have been listening to, who has been touting the benefits of free content and has long been an advocate of "moving the free line" now writes an email, talking about giving away free content, stating:

Quote:
"Then stop being stupid by giving it away! If you had anything of any real value, why the heck would it be FREE?

Either your content sucks or you are just trying to bait and switch your readers. Either way, you suck! I promise that's the way your customers see it!

....If you're going to post content...then give it some thought first and actually make a freaking effort and get paid."
Is it any wonder why people complain of information overload and confusion? They must be thinking: "First they tell me to do one thing, then rail again the thing they taught me to do in the first place"

Frankly, it is just a business decision on his part to do away with his blog, and I would bet it's a numbers game.

Based on how many people he gets to join his list from his blog, and how many people he get's buying his products from blog articles, I would guess the numbers show, based on estimates, that it is more profitable to charge a small amount than to...

...keep coming up with free content...

that you spend lots of time, and more time, and more time to create...

...that you simply give away and then...give and give and give some more
...and then you wait and hope and hope and hope....

...that the people who visit the blog and read and view the free content will....eventually....like you, trust you and then...

hopefully....buy one of your products.

He has changed to the simple business model of: Create content - charge for it.

To make money, you have to sell something. Whether that something is a product (your own or someone else's), or advertising space (be it sponsored ads or contextual ads such as google adsense) if you don't sell something you don't make money.

I had a very successful information publisher tell me that he thought the whole "move the free line" concept was nonsense. Almost everyone he knew that adopted it suffered monetarily from doing so. And most of the people touting it, did so because they want you to perceive that the free material they were giving had incredible value, but most of what is being given away as free was "What?" material not, "How To?" material. And there is a big difference between "What?" and "How to?"

Another well known marketer states that the income from his blog - a very high traffic blog - is nothing in comparison to what he makes from simply directly selling a product. And, the main benefit of his blog is not income, but to help him get things like speaking gigs and to be published elsewhere.

A test you can do yourself is this:

Look at many of the big names, who mainly sell their own information products, who are supporters of "moving the free line" or "give away a lot of cool stuff" and see if you can find their blogs with consistently updated and large amounts of free content.

If you look at many people who are successful with blogging, they will tell you that much of their income comes from the sale of products.

When they give you break downs of how their blog makes money - If they had a big jump in monthly income, much of the time they will mention a new product they started selling that provided the big jump in revenue.

The basics never go away.

Does giving away a lot of "how to" content that teaches lead to more people buying your own information products because they have come to trust and like you? Or, does it just condition them to wait for and expect more free stuff from you?

To make money, you have to sell something.
#bad #blogging #business #content #free #giving #model #stuff
  • Profile picture of the author TZ
    Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

    This thread was inspired by a thread from another user that I responded to that I'd like to expand on.

    A well known person who does participate in the "how to make money online" market, did away with their free blog.

    This led to confusion by someone who obviously followed this marketer closely and I'm sure a bunch of other people who follow him as well

    I totally understand where this confusion comes from.

    It can be very confusing when someone you have been listening to, who has been touting the benefits of free content and has long been an advocate of "moving the free line" now writes an email, talking about giving away free content, stating:



    Is it any wonder why people complain of information overload and confusion? They must be thinking: "First they tell me to do one thing, then rail again the thing they taught me to do in the first place"

    Frankly, it is just a business decision on his part to do away with his blog, and I would bet it's a numbers game.

    Based on how many people he gets to join his list from his blog, and how many people he get's buying his products from blog articles, I would guess the numbers show, based on estimates, that it is more profitable to charge a small amount than to...

    ...keep coming up with free content...

    that you spend lots of time, and more time, and more time to create...

    ...that you simply give away and then...give and give and give some more
    ...and then you wait and hope and hope and hope....

    ...that the people who visit the blog and read and view the free content will....eventually....like you, trust you and then...

    hopefully....buy one of your products.

    He has changed to the simple business model of: Create content - charge for it.

    To make money, you have to sell something. Whether that something is a product (your own or someone else's), or advertising space (be it sponsored ads or contextual ads such as google adsense) if you don't sell something you don't make money.

    I had a very successful information publisher tell me that he thought the whole "move the free line" concept was nonsense. Almost everyone he knew that adopted it suffered monetarily from doing so. And most of the people touting it, did so because they want you to perceive that the free material they were giving had incredible value, but most of what is being given away as free was "What?" material not, "How To?" material. And there is a big difference between "What?" and "How to?"

    Another well known marketer states that the income from his blog - a very high traffic blog - is nothing in comparison to what he makes from simply directly selling a product. And, the main benefit of his blog is not income, but to help him get things like speaking gigs and to be published elsewhere.

    A test you can do yourself is this:

    Look at many of the big names, who mainly sell their own information products, who are supporters of "moving the free line" or "give away a lot of cool stuff" and see if you can find their blogs with consistently updated and large amounts of free content.

    If you look at many people who are successful with blogging, they will tell you that much of their income comes from the sale of products.

    When they give you break downs of how their blog makes money - If they had a big jump in monthly income, much of the time they will mention a new product they started selling that provided the big jump in revenue.

    The basics never go away.

    Does giving away a lot of "how to" content that teaches lead to more people buying your own information products because they have come to trust and like you? Or, does it just condition them to wait for and expect more free stuff from you?

    To make money, you have to sell something.
    Really? You can sell faster and better when you have gags of content on a blog showing years of effort and an understanding of the product you use yourself. Some flashy sales page with the typical "tesimonials" on another PR ZERO one pager still works, but a rich blog would be more consistent over time.

    Pretty subjective comment on my part....you can make money many different ways.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aira Bongco
    I agree that you have to sell something. But in this industry, it does not always need to be your own product. Ever heard of affiliate marketing? Though you can make more money selling your own product, you can start off by selling other people's products.

    As for giving away free information, it all boils down to the concept of providing value first. Honestly, will you buy from a person you hardly even know. The goal of the free line is to increase your relationship with your subscriber. It will not work if you don't know how to craft e-mails or freebies that build a relationship instead of promote products. So the quality of the free information is very important as well.

    Also, the reason behind providing free stuff is that you can sell something to them later. You have people that trust you and you can mail every time you have a new product or your mastermind group has a new product. It is always better to have a list.

    And finally, learn the concept of teasing people. It is a copywriting concept. Never give all of your ideas away. Save it for the paid product. If you follow these, then I can tell you that giving away free stuff will make you money. Try and see.
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    • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
      Originally Posted by TZ View Post

      Really? You can sell faster and better when you have gags of content on a blog showing years of effort and an understanding of the product you use yourself. Some flashy sales page with the typical "tesimonials" on another PR ZERO one pager still works, but a rich blog would be more consistent over time.

      Pretty subjective comment on my part....you can make money many different ways.
      Do you have test results that show that you can sell faster and better when you have "gags" of content on a blog?

      Also, I understand exactly what you mean when you say a "flashy sales page with typical testimonials" but it can also be another type of sales page that just provides a reason why the product is good and how it will benefit you. All sales pages don't have to look like the typical ones you describe. There are plenty of examples of other types.

      Originally Posted by airabongco View Post

      I agree that you have to sell something. But in this industry, it does not always need to be your own product. Ever heard of affiliate marketing? Though you can make more money selling your own product, you can start off by selling other people's products.
      I was not talking about affiliate marketing in my original post. I was referencing a blog by a well known person who sells information products in the "how to make money online" market.

      And has decided to end his free blog and decided to charge for the information he used to give away free.

      Originally Posted by airabongco View Post

      As for giving away free information, it all boils down to the concept of providing value first.
      I'm not talking about giving away a free piece of content as a lead generator. I'm talking about blogging. Creating free content on a consistent basis very frequently in hopes that this free content will lead to more sales of your own product - not an affiliate model.


      Originally Posted by airabongco View Post

      Honestly, will you buy from a person you hardly even know.
      Yes, I've done this many times. If I'm in business and I find something I think can help me, I have no problem paying money for something. I don't have to spend weeks or months to get to trust someone or some small company to spend $30 or $40 on their product or information.
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  • Profile picture of the author schttrj
    Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

    This thread was inspired by a thread from another user that I responded to that I'd like to expand on.

    A well known person who does participate in the "how to make money online" market, did away with their free blog.

    This led to confusion by someone who obviously followed this marketer closely and I'm sure a bunch of other people who follow him as well

    I totally understand where this confusion comes from.

    It can be very confusing when someone you have been listening to, who has been touting the benefits of free content and has long been an advocate of "moving the free line" now writes an email, talking about giving away free content, stating:



    Is it any wonder why people complain of information overload and confusion? They must be thinking: "First they tell me to do one thing, then rail again the thing they taught me to do in the first place"

    Frankly, it is just a business decision on his part to do away with his blog, and I would bet it's a numbers game....
    I lost you here.

    What are you TRYING to say?

    First, learn the purpose of a blog.

    Second, comes the money making.

    Purposes of a Blog

    - To bring FREE content to establish authority in the field
    - To build regular traffic to a FREE "seminar" (that is, your blog)
    - To advertise yourself to other businessmen

    Why do you think big companies blog?!

    To sell products?! No, to establish their authority and improve their reach to their customers...

    And I really don't understand what you were ranting about FREE content.

    Free content is the enticer...and the direct adspace selling, affiliate marketing, PPC, CPA...makes money

    That's why it is always said to MONETIZE YOUR BLOG!!!

    Everyone knows that. In fact, most of the queries that come up in Warrior Forum is on how to make money online!

    Business models may be different.

    You may want to go with the plain "sales page-get traffic-sell products" model or a more comprehensive "FREE content-build trust-get loyal readers-sell indirect" model.

    So, FREE content DOES make you money!
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    • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
      Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

      I lost you here.

      What are you TRYING to say?
      I'm saying that someone who has been in this market for a long time has decided to go back to the most fundamental principle of - create good content and then charge people for it. Instead of continually giving away free content in the hopes it leads to sales of his other products.

      Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

      Why do you think big companies blog?!

      To sell products?! No, to establish their authority and improve their reach to their customers...
      I think the key word is BIG. Yes, google has a large staff and can afford to have a blog devoted to everyone of it's products - it's analytics blog, adsense blog, adwords blog, etc.

      And I really don't understand what you were ranting about FREE content.

      Free content is the enticer...and the direct adspace selling, affiliate marketing, PPC, CPA...makes money
      I wasn't referring to those things in this particular monetization model. I was talking about the selling of your own products - mostly information products

      If you are using an affiliate model as your main monetization for your blog, than your free content supports the product you are selling that gives you the affiliate commission. That free content is in fact needed to sell the affiliate product.
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      • Profile picture of the author schttrj
        Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

        I'm saying that someone who has been in this market for a long time has decided to go back to the most fundamental principle of - create good content and then charge people for it. Instead of continually giving away free content in the hopes it leads to sales of his other products.

        As I said it a part of the whole process.

        If you will only blog, you will NOT make that much money as you can if you have your own product. If you just create a sales page, it's conversion is NEVER going to be as high as when you already have a blog to support and push it forward.

        I think the key word is BIG. Yes, google has a large staff and can afford to have a blog devoted to everyone of it's products - it's analytics blog, adsense blog, adwords blog, etc.

        That's what we are talking about here. You have to think about your long-term strategy.

        Going by what you say...

        A king always wear robes. And a bum on the street always wear rags.

        Now, if a beggar dresses like a king, walks like a king and talks like a king, he will be perceived as a king.

        Now, when a robe might be out of reach for a beggar, building a blog to provide FREE valuable content is in reach of everyone. Just the content matters.

        I wasn't referring to those things in this particular monetization model. I was talking about the selling of your own products - mostly information products

        If you are using an affiliate model as your main monetization for your blog, than your free content supports the product you are selling that gives you the affiliate commission. That free content is in fact needed to sell the affiliate product.
        As I said before, you NEED followers to succeed online. How many products are you gonna create?! How many articles are you gonna churn for article marketing?! How much would you pay for Google Adwords?!

        I would say, creating a blog and keeping those articles over there, doing regular advertising on your own blog are going to bring your better return on investment.

        To end with, as humans, we look for everything SIMPLE and READY-MADE. That's why a sales page model sounds good.

        But if you want to build a business empire, you got to do more than that.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kevin_Hutto
          Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

          As I said before, you NEED followers to succeed online.
          That's simply not true. That is only true in SOME online business models (like the 'guru' model)... You don't have to have followers if you have a well placed product that solves a problem for them at a reasonable price. And to the OP, I agree with what RD did from a business standpoint as I have never really enjoyed blogging. But, it is a bit tough to hear a guy say "move the free line"... Then do this. Its also like saying SEO is a waste of time (paraphrasing) and then sell an SEO course about a year later. That's the tough part of being a public figure teaching like this... people tend to remember stuff you say.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris The Traffic Blogger
    After two years of free, valuable, consistent daily content... when I tell my audience I have a new product to sell they all buy it!

    What you're saying does have merit though, it's just another way to run the business. You are absolutely correct that a portion of your audience gets used to free and will be pissed whenever you try to sell anything.

    If you want to have the perception that you are an expert, as well as be one, well then you will need to show credibility with a blog or some other form of social proof.

    It is very hard work and it is only lucrative if you have a product of your own that you are selling.

    Great thread, good work!
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Murphy
      Originally Posted by Chris The Traffic Blogger View Post

      After two years of free, valuable, consistent daily content... when I tell my audience I have a new product to sell they all buy it!

      What you're saying does have merit though, it's just another way to run the business. You are absolutely correct that a portion of your audience gets used to free and will be pissed whenever you try to sell anything.

      If you want to have the perception that you are an expert, as well as be one, well then you will need to show credibility with a blog or some other form of social proof.

      It is very hard work and it is only lucrative if you have a product of your own that you are selling.

      Great thread, good work!
      You hit the nail on the head there..Great comment!
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    • Profile picture of the author phpnetpro
      Originally Posted by Chris The Traffic Blogger View Post

      After two years of free, valuable, consistent daily content... when I tell my audience I have a new product to sell they all buy it!

      What you're saying does have merit though, it's just another way to run the business. You are absolutely correct that a portion of your audience gets used to free and will be pissed whenever you try to sell anything.

      If you want to have the perception that you are an expert, as well as be one, well then you will need to show credibility with a blog or some other form of social proof.

      It is very hard work and it is only lucrative if you have a product of your own that you are selling.

      Great thread, good work!

      I agree with you Chris. I'm certainly an advocate of giving away things with real value. There are bad ways to go about doing it, but it works when done properly. I you are ONLY writing free content to directly make money, then you're probably doing it for the wrong reason. I give away free things of value to build trust/relationships. I think people only doing those things for a direct buck will achieve the opposite result.

      Ryan
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  • Profile picture of the author oda
    A FREE Gift has the power to establish your credibility and give your visitor a reason to open your next email or read you next Blog post.

    However the gift must be of value, useful and provide real benefits otherwise you risk doing the opposite and making the person that got a DUD gift just delete your mails and never visit your blog again.

    If you can provide REAL value for FREE then you have a foot in the door when you try and provide REAL value again Only this time your asking for payment.

    Give out free stuff, just make sure it's good FREE stuff that will open the door for the money offer.

    Take Care

    ODA
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  • Profile picture of the author Marx Vergel Melencio
    Jamawebinc,

    Nothing has changed much. I interpret the "free content" you mentioned as softsell marketing materials used to
    promote business reputation and advertise product bran name...

    All businesses benefit from having resources for their marketing and promotional campaigns,
    be it financial or non-financial resources...

    Brick and mortar businesses have been doing this even before the Internet...
    They give away their products totally free at sponsored public and private events...

    They have contests...
    They support charitable institutions and get themselves on the news for doing so...

    They develop TV, print, radio and online ads with entertaining content...
    They support movies, TV shows, sports events and community activities...

    No: It isn't a bad business model to give away "free content"...
    It would be only if you're doing it the "wrong" way...
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  • Profile picture of the author Anonymous Affiliate
    As someone who used to have a succesful blog in the past (made $10k a month) and who also merrily killed it one day on the spot, i agree with Ryan's move: blogs are NOT an efficient monetizing model: too much work involved considering the relatively low yield.

    I also moved from blogging to the list building and product creation business model and my $-per-hour ratio multiplied SIGNIFICANTLY. Yes, a popular blog does establish reputation and social credibility, but it is a weak business model from a bottom-line efficiency point of view.
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    • Profile picture of the author schttrj
      Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

      As someone who used to have a succesful blog in the past (made $10k a month) and who also merrily killed it one day on the spot, i agree with Ryan's move: blogs are NOT an efficient monetizing model: too much work involved considering the relatively low yield.

      I also moved from blogging to the list building and product creation business model and my $-per-hour ratio multiplied SIGNIFICANTLY. Yes, a popular blog does establish reputation and social credibility, but it is a weak business model from a bottom-line efficiency point of view.
      Does that blog exist now?
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      • Profile picture of the author Anonymous Affiliate
        Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

        Does that blog exist now?
        Eerr like I said I killed it to focus on more productive ventures.
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        • Profile picture of the author schttrj
          Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

          Eerr like I said I killed it to focus on more productive ventures.
          I have a question for you. I don't it as a clever business sense, that you have a blog that earns you over 10K per month, and you kill it suddenly to start from scratch once again?!

          I mean, most people at your place would venture into more basic models, of course...but they would keep the blog in there. It's a recurring source of income after all.

          And then again, with that amount of income, you could have easily outsourced most of the work.

          So, what made you kill that blog? Enlighten me!
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          • Profile picture of the author Anonymous Affiliate
            Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

            what made you kill that blog? Enlighten me!
            I dont believe in outsourcing a blog. People follow the blogger, not the blog itself.

            Writing (free) content on a daily basis was VERY time consuming and the $-per-work ratio was WAY lower than what you get on other business models. Besides, blogging it NOT a recurrent income plus it is VERY difficult to leverage a blog because it is directly tied to the amount and quality of content you create.

            My efforts were simply better spent somewhere else.
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            • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
              Everything online now comes down to branding, engaging, and effectively building a relationship with people. "Free" may or may not always be the way to go, and, like everything, it should be tested. The way the internet has evolved, it's now up to the blogger/IM'er to continually overdeliver.
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            • Profile picture of the author schttrj
              Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

              I dont believe in outsourcing a blog. People follow the blogger, not the blog itself.

              Writing (free) content on a daily basis was VERY time consuming and the $-per-work ratio was WAY lower than what you get on other business models. Besides, blogging it NOT a recurrent income plus it is VERY difficult to leverage a blog because it is directly tied to the amount and quality of content you create.

              My efforts were simply better spent somewhere else.
              Just color me as a cynic, BUT I am still not getting it.

              You have a blog that was bringing home 10K per month. Right? Good!

              You are writing around 2-3 posts per week...all great bloggers do around that scale!

              Check out the interviews with Darren Rowse, John Chow, Matt Codington, Jeremy Shoemoney and so forth on Daily Blog Tips...and they all spent around 2-3 hours max per day on blogging!

              And about marketing...I guess you already pulled up to a position where you had a name for yourself. 'Cos earning 10K per month from your blog is NOT that easy, unless your blog is really doing good.

              So, we can say that you would have been working for 2-3 hours per day, write 2-3 articles per week (of course, QUALITY articles) and earned a steady 10K per month. One thing's for sure, once you start earning from a blog, it's relatively steady.

              But sales page models are rather undulating!

              And you always have the option of scaling your blog, into a much bigger form. So, I still DON'T find logic in your business decision.

              To be honest, if the blogger that the OP was talking about thinks like you, he does have any business sense I would say. Pardon me!
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              • Profile picture of the author Rashell
                Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                So, we can say that you would have been working for 2-3 hours per day, write 2-3 articles per week (of course, QUALITY articles) and earned a steady 10K per month. One thing's for sure, once you start earning from a blog, it's relatively steady.

                But sales page models are rather undulating!
                Try to remember blogging as a business model wasn't always the way business was done (even online). Sales pages are also not the only way business is done (even online).

                If you had 2-3 hours a day to spend on your business... And you could only choose 1 business model either a non-blogging business model which earns $100,000 or the blogging model to earn $10,000 which would you pick?

                Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                And you always have the option of scaling your blog, into a much bigger form. So, I still DON'T find logic in your business decision.
                You could or you could (if you knew of one) choose a much more lucrative and efficient business model.

                Rashell
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        • Profile picture of the author TZ
          Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

          Eerr like I said I killed it to focus on more productive ventures.
          Why would anyone "kill" a domain that brings in 10K a month when all it needs is a dribble post every two weeks??

          The only way I could see this decision making any sense is because pretty well the ONLY traffic it was getting was from loyal readers who bought his products or services. Hardly ANY search engine traffic.

          Still - it's always another trickle.

          I killed quite a few old crappy static sites I had built back in the early early days, and they were all really funny - funny looking, and funny content. I was SUCH a hacky wack. I kept one just to remind me of the good old days and the silly thing STILL makes 2-3 bucks a day. That is close to 100 bucks a month. That is a phone bill paid.

          I have not changed one thing on it for over 6 years, and the home page was broken for 3 years. This is why I scratch my head when people say that can't make any money online. It doesn't take much of a site to "get your beak wet".

          Wanna see it - you'll laugh your *ss off;
          http://www.bridesmaid-dress-only.com/
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          • Profile picture of the author Anonymous Affiliate
            Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

            So, we can say that you would have been working for 2-3 hours per day, write 2-3 articles per week (of course, QUALITY articles) and earned a steady 10K per month.
            Originally Posted by TZ View Post

            Why would anyone "kill" a domain that brings in 10K a month when all it needs is a dribble post every two weeks??
            This is exactly the problem with inexperienced marketers: they still believe success in internet comes with the push of a button.

            Do you realize that you will NEVER get ANY blog to make ANY money but just "dribbling" a couple of posts per week? Pushing a blog to 5-figures monthly is a HUGE task that requires TONS of research to write super unique and quality stuff to attract and sustain thousands of readers to your blog.

            It's not like you toss a 30-minute article per day and you're done... it was hours per day. Blogs are simply not time efficient from a monetization point of view.

            In order to make 10k with my blog, I had to write super quality stuff on a weekly basis, week in and week out. Now, if I can repackage that info as a stand alone product, get affiliates to promote it, and make $100k off that product within a 3-month time span, working half as much, while growing my customer's mailing list in the process... which venture would you reckon is the smarter way to proceed?

            Dont trust the words of those "gurus" who say they work 30 minutes a day on their blog. It's B.S.. Sustaining a blog's momentum over time is A LOT of work, and I found that effort to be not worth it for the yield.
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            • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
              It definitely takes alot of work to get to that point. Those who make what they do, with so little time invested, have spent months/years developing loyalty to their blogging 'brand'. People return over and over again simply because their brand is so deeply associated with providing high quality content over and over again. Some of the biggest blogs, as I've seen...when people get to that point...actually rely significantly on guest posting, as well. I only really see posts from Darren Rowse once every week or 2 weeks.

              Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

              This is exactly the problem with inexperienced marketers: they still believe success in internet comes with the push of a button.

              Do you realize that you will NEVER get ANY blog to make ANY money but just "dribbling" a couple of posts per week? Pushing a blog to 5-figures monthly is a HUGE task that requires TONS of research to write super unique and quality stuff to attract and sustain thousands of readers to your blog.

              It's not like you toss a 30-minute article per day and you're done... it was hours per day. Blogs are simply not time efficient from a monetization point of view.

              In order to make 10k with my blog, I had to write super quality stuff on a weekly basis, week in and week out. Now, if I can repackage that info as a stand alone product, get affiliates to promote it, and make $100k off that product within a 3-month time span, working half as much, while growing my customer's mailing list in the process... which venture would you reckon is the smarter way to proceed?

              Dont trust the words of those "gurus" who say they work 30 minutes a day on their blog. It's B.S.. Sustaining a blog's momentum over time is A LOT of work, and I found that effort to be not worth it for the yield.
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          • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
            Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

            It's a recurring source of income after all.
            That comes with a big assumption. By saying this, you are assuming that advertising and affiliate commissions were a part of the monetization process for that blog.

            I know in the blog I mentioned in the original post, this was not the case at all.

            The purpose of that blog was to build a relationship with the prospects and customers of the blogger.

            Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

            ...So, what made you kill that blog? Enlighten me!
            It may have been simple math.

            Something like: If I spend 15 hours per week creating content that I give away free in hope that it leads to sales of my other products, I make $200 per week from those 15 hours of work...

            But...if I spend the same 15 hours creating the content and packaging it for sale, I can make $450 each week from those 15 hours.


            Originally Posted by TZ View Post

            Why would anyone "kill" a domain that brings in 10K a month when all it needs is a dribble post every two weeks??
            I don't think he ever mentioned killing the domain.

            He just went to a different business model.

            One of "monetize by selling your content" instead of "give the content away free and then monetize by hoping people buy your other "for sale content" because your free content has gained your prospects trust and make them like and respect you and increased their desire to buy your other "for sale" products.
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            • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
              Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

              If you are using an affiliate model as your main monetization for your blog, than your free content supports the product you are selling that gives you the affiliate commission. That free content is in fact needed to sell the affiliate product.
              I don't think that particular principle is only relevant for affiliate marketers. It's appropriate for product owners, too.

              As I understood the concept of "moving the free line" when I heard Eben Pagan explain it in a webinar, it did not mean giving away a continuous stream of your best content forever.

              It was applied to getting people into a sales funnel, especially as that relates to product launches. Instead of giving away some crappy little PDF or a thinly disguised sales video, give away a piece of really valuable content - something you could, or maybe did, charge for.

              That demonstration of value was meant to create the belief that 'if the free stuff is that good, the whole package must be awesome...'

              Look at the successful launches since Eben coined that phrase...

              Did they succeed by giving away the farm for months before timidly offering a product?

              Or did they make a splash the winner of a cruise ship 'cannonball' contest would envy?

              I stopped following the big launches over a year ago, but the ones I remember gave away one blockbuster freebie that was a fraction of the whole package (supposedly, anyway). They used that content to build buzz and energy for their real push to fry their servers on launch day.

              I think Kern nailed it with his "results in advance" idea - get your people to experience a real success, even a limited one, from what you offer, and the rest of it becomes much more valuable and desirable.

              Constantly giving away all of your most valuable stuff is a sucker's game, as the parents of daughters have known for generations. How do you think they came by the expression "why buy a cow if they can get the milk for free"?
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              • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
                Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

                I don't think that particular principle is only relevant for affiliate marketers. It's appropriate for product owners, too.

                Constantly giving away all of your most valuable stuff is a sucker's game, as the parents of daughters have known for generations. How do you think they came by the expression "why buy a cow if they can get the milk for free"?
                Yes giving away something free as a lead generation is a good idea and a fundamental of marketing. Of course, it is better to give away something really good, with the purpose to prove yourself to the lead rather than give away something you don't value much - just for the sake of giving something for free.

                But, that's different from a blogging model where you your are constantly coming up with valuable content that you just keep giving away. Or as you put it..."constantly giving away all of your most valuable stuff"

                A great analogy is in the food court of a mall. The person in front of the chinese food place who holds a plate of the hunan chicken with toothpicks in them. You taste one, a sample of one of their best and most popular dishes, but you only get a taste.

                If you want more, you have to get in line and order.

                They don't give you 1 taste of the chicken, and then let you take another sample of it...and then another and another and then samples of beef, and then a sample of spicy vegetables, etc. hoping that by just constantly giving you more free stuff, that you'll get in line and order.
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                • Profile picture of the author schttrj
                  Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

                  Yes giving away something free as a lead generation is a good idea and a fundamental of marketing. Of course, it is better to give away something really good, with the purpose to prove yourself to the lead rather than give away something you don't value much - just for the sake of giving something for free.

                  But, that's different from a blogging model where you your are constantly coming up with valuable content that you just keep giving away. Or as you put it..."constantly giving away all of your most valuable stuff"

                  A great analogy is in the food court of a mall. The person in front of the chinese food place who holds a plate of the hunan chicken with toothpicks in them. You taste one, a sample of one of their best and most popular dishes, but you only get a taste.

                  If you want more, you have to get in line and order.

                  They don't give you 1 taste of the chicken, and then let you take another sample of it...and then another and another and then samples of beef, and then a sample of spicy vegetables, etc. hoping that by just constantly giving you more free stuff, that you'll get in line and order.
                  Unfortunately, the internet business world works a bit differently from the real business world.
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                  • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
                    Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                    No, I was talking about Mr. Anonymous, who was so successful in blogging that he earned 10K per month, which is the earning range of some of the top bloggers there.

                    And then he suddenly "killed" the blog that was supporting him.
                    Yes, I was talking about him as well.

                    Perhaps changing to a "create content and sell it" model makes him $10k per month with 1/5 of the time commitment. Or perhaps it makes him $15k per month.

                    Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                    And the blog that you are talking about, is NON-MONETIZED at the moment. So, if the person running it thought that it will convert more, he was mistaken.

                    He should go and learn blogging once again.

                    Not everyone is going to like your product. So, you have to channelize those traffic as well. Simple common sense.
                    That's not so. When the blog was running, it was monetized by offering his other products for sale.

                    Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                    Unfortunately, the internet business world works a bit differently from the real business world.
                    You really believe that?

                    The internet is a medium, just like tv, radio, movies, print advertising, etc. Business is business.
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                    • Profile picture of the author schttrj
                      Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

                      Yes, I was talking about him as well.

                      Perhaps changing to a "create content and sell it" model makes him $10k per month with 1/5 of the time commitment. Or perhaps it makes him $15k per month.
                      Well, then he could have easily made another $25K by selling the site on Flippa.com, going by the revenue stats and assuming the traffic stats of the site. Don't you think?

                      That's not so. When the blog was running, it was monetized by offering his other products for sale.
                      And what if certain people don't want to see your products all the time? They want something from others that YOU recommend?

                      You really believe that?

                      The internet is a medium, just like tv, radio, movies, print advertising, etc. Business is business.
                      Every medium works in a different way! That's what my sales copywriting experience tells me. You cannot create a long sales copy for a newspaper classifieds ad, as you would for the internet.

                      It varies according to the advertising medium...If it was so simple, everyone would have been millionaires by now.
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                      • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
                        Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                        Well, then he could have easily made another $25K by selling the site on Flippa.com, going by the revenue stats and assuming the traffic stats of the site. Don't you think?
                        I think you have a lot of pre-conceived ideas.

                        Who said he wanted to sell the domain? Why couldn't he just change the business model if the change makes it more profitable?

                        Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                        And what if certain people don't want to see your products all the time? They want something from others that YOU recommend?
                        Creating blog content to gain affiliate commissions was just not something he did. He would make his affiliate commissions straight from emails he sent to his list.

                        He states, very clearly, what the purpose of his blog was. To build trust and credibility with his list, visitors, followers, etc.

                        He just decided he could earn more by doing away with the blog and using a different monetization model.

                        I'm not sure if you know who I was referring to in my original post, because I don't think you mentioned it in your posts, but the person I was referring to is Ryan Deiss.
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                        • Profile picture of the author schttrj
                          Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

                          I think you have a lot of pre-conceived ideas.

                          Who said he wanted to sell the domain? Why couldn't he just change the business model if the change makes it more profitable?
                          And I think you are just not being able to prove me wrong. I have seen a sales-page being sold for $200, which I bid on. So, I actually know what I am saying.

                          Here are two probabilities:

                          1. Mr. Anonymous was creating a product in the same niche. In this case, he could have used his blog to promote that product or at least build some backlinks and maybe some traffic to it. It would not have been harmful!

                          2. Mr. Anonymous was creating a product in a very different, totally unrelated niche. In this case, he could have just left the blog and started working on the new business model.

                          Where's the confusion here? If you want to prove you're right, you have to prove the present hypothesis wrong.

                          After all, every truth is an unfalsified hypothesis wrong.

                          Creating blog content to gain affiliate commissions was just not something he did. He would make his affiliate commissions straight from emails he sent to his list.

                          He states, very clearly, what the purpose of his blog was. To build trust and credibility with his list, visitors, followers, etc.

                          He just decided he could earn more by doing away with the blog and using a different monetization model.

                          I'm not sure if you know who I was referring to in my original post, because I don't think you mentioned it in your posts, but the person I was referring to is Ryan Deiss.
                          I really don't know the details there. So, I won't dig into that.

                          But let me share something from my personal experience.

                          I have been on the newsletter subscription of Ryann Deiss for a long time. And most (almost all) his newsletters were pretty salesy and no-value at all. So, it's pretty certain he would NOT have made too many money of that.

                          Blogging does NOT really earn from direct selling of product. It earns from PPC clicks, monthly subscription model, direct ad space selling and all such.

                          He should have thought better of it.
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                          • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
                            Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                            And I think you are just not being able to prove me wrong. I have seen a sales-page being sold for $200, which I bid on. So, I actually know what I am saying.
                            I think you have gone off on a tangent somewhere. Bidding on sales pages, selling sites on flippa...

                            Mr. Anonymous wrote a very clear explanation himself:

                            Writing (free) content on a daily basis was VERY time consuming and the $-per-work ratio was WAY lower than what you get on other business models. Besides, blogging it NOT a recurrent income plus it is VERY difficult to leverage a blog because it is directly tied to the amount and quality of content you create.

                            My efforts were simply better spent somewhere else.
                            I'm not sure what's hard to understand from that explanation.

                            Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                            I have been on the newsletter subscription of Ryann Deiss for a long time. And most (almost all) his newsletters were pretty salesy and no-value at all. So, it's pretty certain he would NOT have made too many money of that.
                            That's a pre-conceived idea right there. Why do you assume his newsletters are NOT making him money?

                            Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                            Blogging does NOT really earn from direct selling of product. It earns from PPC clicks, monthly subscription model, direct ad space selling and all such.
                            That's another pre-conceived idea. Who said that's how blogging earns money?

                            There are plenty of very successful people who market and sell online that have blogs that don't earn the way you outline.
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                            • Profile picture of the author schttrj
                              Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

                              I think you have gone off on a tangent somewhere. Bidding on sales pages, selling sites on flippa...

                              Mr. Anonymous wrote a very clear explanation himself:
                              First of all, I am into the blogging business for a long time to know how it works. And Flippa is a good way to judge how much you can earn by selling a well-running blog.

                              I'm not sure what's hard to understand from that explanation.
                              What's not understandable is, if not run the blog, why NOT let it be stagnant for sometime, to let it run on its own...Who said you have to keep churning posts every day? I have a blog, where I post on and off, and it still has some good amount of subscribers and regular readers.

                              And it is NOT nearly as professional as it should be.

                              That's a pre-conceived idea right there. Why do you assume his newsletters are NOT making him money?
                              I still don't understand why you are contradicting yourself in each statement. He was not making THAT MUCH money in his newsletters.

                              And if it really would, he would have hired a writer who wrote his newsletters and that's it. Problem solved!

                              A heavy subscribers list does NOT always mean good amount of money.

                              That's another pre-conceived idea. Who said that's how blogging earns money?

                              There are plenty of very successful people who market and sell online that have blogs that don't earn the way you outline.
                              Of course, there is. But I am talking about the normal blogging model.

                              Unless you are Darren Rowse, you can't make maximum money from your blog unless you utilize other monetization methods.

                              I would suggest you to just surf around the top make-money-online blogs there. You could find how they make money.
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                              • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
                                Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                                First of all, I am into the blogging business for a long time to know how it works. And Flippa is a good way to judge how much you can earn by selling a well-running blog.
                                What makes you assume I haven't been doing this longer than you have?

                                Again, I'm not sure why you bring up flippa and selling the blog.

                                Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                                What's not understandable is, if not run the blog, why NOT let it be stagnant for sometime, to let it run on its own...Who said you have to keep churning posts every day? I have a blog, where I post on and off, and it still has some good amount of subscribers and regular readers.

                                And it is NOT nearly as professional as it should be.
                                Because he took down the blog and made it a pay for content site because it earned more money.

                                Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                                I still don't understand why you are contradicting yourself in each statement.
                                ???

                                Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                                He was not making THAT MUCH money in his newsletters.

                                And if it really would, he would have hired a writer who wrote his newsletters and that's it. Problem solved!

                                A heavy subscribers list does NOT always mean good amount of money.
                                Did he share his earnings statement with you?
                                Actually he really doesn't have a newsletter at all, he has a mailing list.


                                Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                                Of course, there is. But I am talking about the normal blogging model.

                                Unless you are Darren Rowse, you can't make maximum money from your blog unless you utilize other monetization methods.

                                I would suggest you to just surf around the top make-money-online blogs there. You could find how they make money.
                                There is a difference between someone who markets online and happens to have a blog, and a blogger.
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                                • Profile picture of the author schttrj
                                  Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

                                  What makes you assume I haven't been doing this longer than you have?
                                  I am not judging you. Sorry if you felt so.

                                  Again, I'm not sure why you bring up flippa and selling the blog.
                                  It is to show how Mr. Anonymous could have earned more rather than just kill the blog.

                                  Because he took down the blog and made it a pay for content site because it earned more money.

                                  ???
                                  Mr. Anonymous said that he "killed" his blog.

                                  Did he share his earnings statement with you?
                                  It is plain common sense. And if you are talking about blogging salaries, that's not my research but research of John Chow (you must have heard his name).

                                  Actually he really doesn't have a newsletter at all, he has a mailing list.
                                  Whether a mailing list or newsletter, it doesn't matter as long as he was using it solely to make money.

                                  There is a difference between someone who markets online and happens to have a blog, and a blogger.
                                  As I said, if a BLOGGER is blogging for business, he is probably someone who markets online through his blog.

                                  Otherwise he is just some senseless fool who doesn't know what he is doing.
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            • Profile picture of the author schttrj
              Originally Posted by Rashell View Post

              Try to remember blogging as a business model wasn't always the way business was done (even online). Sales pages are also not the only way business is done (even online).

              If you had 2-3 hours a day to spend on your business... And you could only choose 1 business model either a non-blogging business model which earns $100,000 or the blogging model to earn $10,000 which would you pick?

              You could or you could (if you knew of one) choose a much more lucrative and efficient business model.

              Rashell
              Rashell, my question was WHY would you "KILL" a domain that's bringing you $10K per month?

              Any sane internet marketer at this point WILL SELL the domain, NOT kill it! Suppose one day, if you feel like you are going to switch careers. You are NOT going to be the company secretary (well, I am studying to be one..ha ha) as you are, but will become a singer. What would you do?

              Kick your present job, show the middle finger to your boss and DON'T take the salary for the last month's work you did?

              If you do, you are a big fool!

              Originally Posted by TZ View Post

              Why would anyone "kill" a domain that brings in 10K a month when all it needs is a dribble post every two weeks??

              The only way I could see this decision making any sense is because pretty well the ONLY traffic it was getting was from loyal readers who bought his products or services. Hardly ANY search engine traffic.

              Still - it's always another trickle.

              I killed quite a few old crappy static sites I had built back in the early early days, and they were all really funny - funny looking, and funny content. I was SUCH a hacky wack. I kept one just to remind me of the good old days and the silly thing STILL makes 2-3 bucks a day. That is close to 100 bucks a month. That is a phone bill paid.

              I have not changed one thing on it for over 6 years, and the home page was broken for 3 years. This is why I scratch my head when people say that can't make any money online. It doesn't take much of a site to "get your beak wet".

              Wanna see it - you'll laugh your *ss off;
              Bridesmaid Dress
              Absolutely. That's my point. Why would any "KILL" a domain that's bringing home some money at least. Now, 10K is NOT a little amount for god's sake.

              You seriously lack business sense if you KILL a domain that earning you 10K per month.

              Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

              This is exactly the problem with inexperienced marketers: they still believe success in internet comes with the push of a button.

              Do you realize that you will NEVER get ANY blog to make ANY money but just "dribbling" a couple of posts per week? Pushing a blog to 5-figures monthly is a HUGE task that requires TONS of research to write super unique and quality stuff to attract and sustain thousands of readers to your blog.

              It's not like you toss a 30-minute article per day and you're done... it was hours per day. Blogs are simply not time efficient from a monetization point of view.

              In order to make 10k with my blog, I had to write super quality stuff on a weekly basis, week in and week out. Now, if I can repackage that info as a stand alone product, get affiliates to promote it, and make $100k off that product within a 3-month time span, working half as much, while growing my customer's mailing list in the process... which venture would you reckon is the smarter way to proceed?

              Dont trust the words of those "gurus" who say they work 30 minutes a day on their blog. It's B.S.. Sustaining a blog's momentum over time is A LOT of work, and I found that effort to be not worth it for the yield.
              Well, Mr. Anonymous, first become known. Shown your proof. Show us the domain for SOME credibility!

              Secondly, there's my point exactly. You worked your ass off to build a blog or website to the point that it is earning you 10K per month, and then you suddenly you came onto another Einstein-ish business idea, and you leave this whole thing altogether.

              Well, you don't leave it, you KILL it. Nice business move, man! As I said, if you can't maintain it, you could have sold it, just like Deborah Nag sold her Freelance Writing Gigs to someone else.

              Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post

              It definitely takes alot of work to get to that point. Those who make what they do, with so little time invested, have spent months/years developing loyalty to their blogging 'brand'. People return over and over again simply because their brand is so deeply associated with providing high quality content over and over again. Some of the biggest blogs, as I've seen...when people get to that point...actually rely significantly on guest posting, as well. I only really see posts from Darren Rowse once every week or 2 weeks.
              Absolutely! Once you have something up, you don't need to worry that much. It's only when you getting it up that matters.

              Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

              That comes with a big assumption. By saying this, you are assuming that advertising and affiliate commissions were a part of the monetization process for that blog.

              I know in the blog I mentioned in the original post, this was not the case at all.

              The purpose of that blog was to build a relationship with the prospects and customers of the blogger.

              It may have been simple math.

              Something like: If I spend 15 hours per week creating content that I give away free in hope that it leads to sales of my other products, I make $200 per week from those 15 hours of work...

              But...if I spend the same 15 hours creating the content and packaging it for sale, I can make $450 each week from those 15 hours.

              I don't think he ever mentioned killing the domain.

              He just went to a different business model.

              One of "monetize by selling your content" instead of "give the content away free and then monetize by hoping people buy your other "for sale content" because your free content has gained your prospects trust and make them like and respect you and increased their desire to buy your other "for sale" products.
              No, I was talking about Mr. Anonymous, who was so successful in blogging that he earned 10K per month, which is the earning range of some of the top bloggers there.

              And then he suddenly "killed" the blog that was supporting him.

              And the blog that you are talking about, is NON-MONETIZED at the moment. So, if the person running it thought that it will convert more, he was mistaken.

              He should go and learn blogging once again.

              Not everyone is going to like your product. So, you have to channelize those traffic as well. Simple common sense.
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              • Profile picture of the author Rashell
                Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                Rashell, my question was WHY would you "KILL" a domain that's bringing you $10K per month?

                Any sane internet marketer at this point WILL SELL the domain, NOT kill it!
                Depends on how closely identified the domain name is with who I am. For instance if the domain name is my name I don't want to sell it and have someone else possibly destroy my rep.

                Also Anonymous didn't say he "killed" the domain name... just the blog.


                Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                Now, 10K is NOT a little amount for god's sake.
                I know people who drop that amount on an afternoon shoe shopping spree. For some people IT IS a little amount of money.

                Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                Secondly, there's my point exactly. You worked your ass off to build a blog or website to the point that it is earning you 10K per month, and then you suddenly you came onto another Einstein-ish business idea, and you leave this whole thing altogether.

                Well, you don't leave it, you KILL it. Nice business move, man! As I said, if you can't maintain it, you could have sold it, just like Deborah Nag sold her Freelance Writing Gigs to someone else.
                In the end it's all about ROI. Is it worth it to sell or dissolve? Only the business owner will know those exact numbers.

                Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                And then he suddenly "killed" the blog that was supporting him.
                You don't know if it was supporting him or hobby cash. Prince William may create a blog that earns $10,000/day but in comparison to what all he owns and will inherit I don't think he'd say it was supporting him. It just depends on where you're at in life whether going one way or another is best.

                Rashell
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                • Profile picture of the author schttrj
                  Originally Posted by Rashell View Post

                  Depends on how closely identified the domain name is with who I am. For instance if the domain name is my name I don't want to sell it and have someone else possibly destroy my rep.

                  Also Anonymous didn't say he "killed" the domain name... just the blog.
                  You made a point, of course. I hear you.

                  But tell me something, which one makes MORE sense - leveraging your present blog to promote the next product, keeping the blog stagnant for a few months (it doesn't matter 'cos you are only killing it a few months later) and work on the present business idea, or just because I don't like you, you bloody bitch blog, I will kill you...I am going to find myself another wife?

                  which one? Don't back reason. That's a sin in the business world.

                  I know people who drop that amount on an afternoon shoe shopping spree. For some people IT IS a little amount of money.
                  Of course, Britney Spears does. Paris Hilton does. Akon does. But us?! Oh come on...You probably don't go around buying $1,000,000 worth of shoes, do you? Otherwise you wouldn't be wasting your time in this petty blog.

                  Just for some extra info, you can actually find the list of top blogger salaries over here.

                  http://paulamooney.blogspot.com/2007...esare-you.html

                  In the end it's all about ROI. Is it worth it to sell or dissolve? Only the business owner will know those exact numbers.

                  You don't know if it was supporting him or hobby cash. Prince William may create a blog that earns $10,000/day but in comparison to what all he owns and will inherit I don't think he'd say it was supporting him. It just depends on where you're at in life whether going one way or another is best.

                  Rashell
                  As I said, we are NOT talking about Prince William here, who can buy hundreds of Harley Davidson on a whim. We are talking about a very serious minded business individual who is always counting on his next business move that will make him more money, NOT distinguish him as someone who wants to have the same fluctuating nature as Prince William.

                  Moreover, Mr. Anonymous never said that it was on a whim and since it was against who he is, he killed that blog.

                  It was a business decision that he made to MAKE MORE MONEY, of course!
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              • Profile picture of the author Anonymous Affiliate
                Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                Well, Mr. Anonymous, first become known. Shown your proof. Show us the domain for SOME credibility!

                Secondly, there's my point exactly. You worked your ass off to build a blog or website to the point that it is earning you 10K per month, and then you suddenly you came onto another Einstein-ish business idea, and you leave this whole thing altogether.

                Well, you don't leave it, you KILL it. Nice business move, man! As I said, if you can't maintain it, you could have sold it, just like Deborah Nag sold her Freelance Writing Gigs to someone else.
                First of all, I dont have to prove a thing. Whether you want to take my comments or not, it's up to you.

                Second, I did NOT kill the domain. I killed the BLOG, and I turned it into a list-building website where, instead of giving free content EVERY SINGLE DAY, I simply provided 3 or 4 pieces of free content to warm up my subscribers, and from there it's all paid content. Basically, about two years ago I took the same move Ryan took this week, and according to my experience it's been a good move.

                And finally, addressing your cocky comment of "Nice business move, man!", I can assure you that my bank account confirms the move I took. And again, I dont have to prove you a thing. It's up to you whether you want to consider the actions taken by someone who's far more successful that you (Ryan Deiss) or not.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mohammad Afaq
    Well no business model is good or bad.

    I have (and still do) make money with business models deemed as "dead" and "lame".

    And I also have failed trying the fanciest of the business models out there.

    So blogging and giving away stuff for free might be a business model that doesn't suit you but there are people making 6-7 figures blogging. Darren Rowse is a huge example (google him)
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  • Profile picture of the author tip
    "A well known person who does participate in the "how to make money online" market, did away with their free blog."

    So far this well known person has provided jack with his paid service. I'm giving it a go seeing as it's on $10 a month but the content needs to be higher quality than the previous blog info - so far it's been 0/10 in terms of quality. He has a week to redeem himself!
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    • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
      Originally Posted by tip View Post

      "A well known person who does participate in the "how to make money online" market, did away with their free blog."

      So far this well known person has provided jack with his paid service. I'm giving it a go seeing as it's on $10 a month but the content needs to be higher quality than the previous blog info - so far it's been 0/10 in terms of quality. He has a week to redeem himself!
      That very well could be. I didn't make this thread to promote his content. I was only talking about the business model itself.
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  • Profile picture of the author tip
    The main problem with paid for content is this:

    All paid for content will be available for free the following day

    This is why this whole new business model will fall down (I think said well known person will make a quick fortune but may suffer in the long term). I subscribed but realise now that I houldn't have.
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    • Profile picture of the author jan roos
      I think Ryan is making a good move here. I would rather pay the 10 bucks a month and get higher quality insider stuff than free content on the blog which is good but not stellar.

      I believe he is going to give us great stuff on the list and if you read the first email today and understood it properly then you'll know that we're going to be getting a whole bunch of value and definitely worth 1o times more that the $10 a month we'll be paying plus for Ryan it will probably be a bigger motivator to send quality stuff because we pay him monthly for it.

      Also, I think because the readership will be smaller he would mind sharing some of his best stuff which he probably wouldn't share on his blog for the whole world to see.

      That's the way I look at it.

      Cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author interestingindeed
    A move like that would really only work for RD. I've seen many, many, many people grow successful business online by simpmly providing super valuable free content, building a following and selling to those people later. It works, period.
    Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

    This thread was inspired by a thread from another user that I responded to. I'd like to expand on my response and turn it into another thread.

    A well known person who does participate in the "how to make money online" market, did away with their free blog.

    This led to confusion by someone who obviously followed this marketer closely and I'm sure a bunch of other people who follow him as well. This is what their thread, that I referenced in the opening sentence, was about...the confusion they were experiencing over this persons decision to do away with providing free content.

    I totally understand where this confusion comes from.

    It can be very confusing when someone you have been listening to, who has been touting the benefits of free content and has long been an advocate of "moving the free line" now writes an email, talking about giving away free content, stating:



    Is it any wonder why people complain of information overload and confusion? They must be thinking: "First they tell me to do one thing, then rail again the thing they taught me to do in the first place"

    Frankly, it is just a business decision on his part to do away with his blog, and I would bet it's a numbers game.

    Based on how many people he gets to join his list from his blog, and how many people he get's buying his products from blog articles, I would guess the numbers show, based on estimates, that it is more profitable to charge a small amount than to...

    ...keep coming up with free content...

    that you spend lots of time, and more time, and more time to create...

    ...that you simply give away and then...give and give and give some more
    ...and then you wait and hope and hope and hope....

    ...that the people who visit the blog and read and view the free content will....eventually....like you, trust you and then...

    hopefully....buy one of your products.

    He has changed to the simple business model of: Create content - charge for it.

    To make money, you have to sell something. Whether that something is a product (your own or someone else's), or advertising space (be it sponsored ads or contextual ads such as google adsense) if you don't sell something you don't make money.

    I had a very successful information publisher tell me that he thought the whole "move the free line" concept was nonsense. Almost everyone he knew that adopted it suffered monetarily from doing so. And most of the people touting it, did so because they want you to perceive that the free material they were giving had incredible value, but most of what is being given away as free was "What?" material not, "How To?" material. And there is a big difference between "What?" and "How to?"

    Another well known marketer states that the income from his blog - a very high traffic blog - is nothing in comparison to what he makes from simply directly selling a product. And, the main benefit of his blog is not income, but to help him get things like speaking gigs and to be published elsewhere.

    A test you can do yourself is this:

    Look at many of the big names, who mainly sell their own information products, who are supporters of "moving the free line" or "give away a lot of cool stuff" and see if you can find their blogs with consistently updated and large amounts of free content.

    If you look at many people who are successful with blogging, they will tell you that much of their income comes from the sale of products.

    When they give you break downs of how their blog makes money - If they had a big jump in monthly income, much of the time they will mention a new product they started selling that provided the big jump in revenue.

    The basics never go away.

    Does giving away a lot of "how to" content that teaches lead to more people buying your own information products because they have come to trust and like you? Or, does it just condition them to wait for and expect more free stuff from you?

    To make money, you have to sell something.
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  • Profile picture of the author tip
    Hey Jan - I hope you are right. It would be great if Ryan did give away some new quality secrets (don't get me wrong he has helped me a lot in the past it's just that for $10 so far I have had 3 hypey emails!).

    The original post by jamawebinc was about the business model in general and my problem with the overall business model of giving away free contect is that there is nothing stopping someone setting up a blog and offering Ryan's content (or anyone else's for that matter) away for free... I can't see it being a success unfortnately. But let's see!
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  • Profile picture of the author satrap
    Yes some people get used to free stuff and come to expect it all the time, but if you give out free information that adds real value to whatever filed your audience are in and actually help them, most of them will be happy to pay when you are asking for money in order to give them a new product, ebook or what have you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fun to Write
    I thing the blogger in the OP example is simply frustrated by his own ability to not make any money. So, he decided to go to a different business model. However, there's no guarantee that he'll be successful with that either.

    This is why it's best to learn IM from many sources and not just follow one person's experience. There are plenty of examples of people giving away valuable information or insights in a certain niche, then also being able to recommend - not sell - products to their audience.

    The free information is basically pre-selling an audience on the value of your personal brand. People buy things from people they like. But, the information someone provides has to have a certain value as well.

    Maybe this guys information was good, but the products he promoted didn't seem valuable enough. Or, his audience went to someone else who they admired even more to purchase those products. There's just too many variables with this example.

    Anyway, yes, it's true that to make money online, a product has to be purchased by someone. How each blogger gets to the point of having enough influence to motivate their audience to click the buy button is a matter of personality, style and quality of information they are providing.
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    • Profile picture of the author schttrj
      Originally Posted by Fun to Write View Post

      I thing the blogger in the OP example is simply frustrated by his own ability to not make any money. So, he decided to go to a different business model. However, there's no guarantee that he'll be successful with that either.
      That's the most probable conclusion here.

      Anyway, yes, it's true that to make money online, a product has to be purchased by someone. How each blogger gets to the point of having enough influence to motivate their audience to click the buy button is a matter of personality, style and quality of information they are providing.
      Exactly! If there are bloggers out there who are making money, then it IS possible.

      And I really don't think, they are FOOLS not to focus on the ROI of their business model either.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ernie Mitchell
    Giving away free content is seductive commercial foreplay.

    The quality of the foreplay equals the success of the seduction.

    There is also a factor of knowing who to woo.

    If you're wooing the wrong subscribers you're not going to get lucky.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      What a load of horse manure.

      And I have the figures to back it up.

      Before I created free content, as well as my own products, I made about
      $1,500 a month online.

      Today, I can make 3 times that much in a day.

      Why? Because I built up my credibility by giving people info, for free, that
      they can actually use.

      Again...what a load of horse manure.
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      • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        What a load of horse manure.

        And I have the figures to back it up.

        Before I created free content, as well as my own products, I made about
        $1,500 a month online.

        Today, I can make 3 times that much in a day.

        Why? Because I built up my credibility by giving people info, for free, that
        they can actually use.

        Again...what a load of horse manure.
        There is a difference between

        a) giving someone 1 or 2 pieces of great free information as a lead generator and then following up to sell your own products and

        b) consistently and frequently giving great free "how to" information on a blog in hopes that the free information leads to people eventually buying from you.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

          There is a difference between

          a) giving someone 1 or 2 pieces of great free information as a lead generator and then following up to sell your own products and

          b) consistently and frequently giving great free "how to" information on a blog in hopes that the free information leads to people eventually buying from you.
          Then I guess maybe I should shut down my blog with close to 2,000
          articles.

          Again...load of horse manure.
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          • Profile picture of the author Anonymous Affiliate
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Then I guess maybe I should shut down my blog with close to 2,000
            articles.

            Again...load of horse manure.
            Steven, instead of repeating the horse thingy for a fourth time, I'm going to ask you to conduct the following exercise:

            1) Calculate the amount of work hours you've put into creating that 2000-article blog... and now imagine you had instead put those hours into creating+promoting your products, or building targeted mailing lists, or creating hundreds of SEO-optimized niche mini sites, etc.

            2) And now consider this question: which of the two ventures do you think would have netted you more revenue after all these years?

            Please answer honestly to this question.
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            • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
              Whether paid OR free, you should always strive to over deliver.

              I've had people on both ends contact me via email and ask me to notify them when I release my next product, because they definitely wanted it.

              Now, I just have to figure out how to keep people from taking advantage of good will, and downloading products to those free download sites (that typically require registration from users who want to download products for free, rather than pay)...

              Anyone have problems with that? How did you handle it?
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

              Steven, instead of repeating the horse thingy for a fourth time, I'm going to ask you to conduct the following exercise:

              1) Calculate the amount of work hours you've put into creating that 2000-article blog... and now imagine you had instead put those hours into creating+promoting your products, or building targeted mailing lists, or creating hundreds of SEO-optimized niche mini sites, etc.

              2) And now consider this question: which of the two ventures do you think would have netted you more revenue after all these years?

              Please answer honestly to this question.
              Since I didn't do that, there is no way to know.

              This is what I do know.

              Those thousands of articles bring me consistent opt ins to my list,
              which I give even more free content to...a list that brings me thousands
              of dollars in sales without hardly doing anything. In fact, I work about 16
              hours a month now and that's IF I want to.

              If you're trying to get me to agree to something that I'm not going to
              agree to, you're wasting your time.

              I suggest you go spend it on more productive activities.

              I stand by my original comment...horse manure.

              And I'll repeat it as often as I like.
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      • Profile picture of the author Anonymous Affiliate
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Before I created free content, as well as my own products, I made about
        $1,500 a month online.

        Today, I can make 3 times that much in a day.

        Why? Because I built up my credibility by giving people info, for free, that
        they can actually use.

        Again...what a load of horse manure.
        Steven, we are NOT discussing whether to give free content or not in order to build up credibility. We are discussing whether to give ongoing, endless and recurrent free content FOREVER (aka blogging) is necessary or even worth the humongous amount of work load it takes.

        And, as far as my own figures show, you don't need to give more than a few good quality pieces of free content in order to build up your trust before you can present a paid offer. Therefore, blogging as a monetization venture is highly redundant and inefficient.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

          Steven, we are NOT discussing whether to give free content or not in order to build up credibility. We are discussing whether to give ongoing, endless and recurrent free content FOREVER (aka blogging) is necessary or even worth the humongous amount of work load it takes.

          And, as far as my own figures show, you don't need to give more than a few good quality pieces of free content in order to build up your trust before you can present a paid offer. Therefore, blogging as a monetization venture is highly redundant and inefficient.
          Again, maybe I should shut down my blog of almost 2,000 articles.

          To repeat...a load of horse manure.
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      • Profile picture of the author celente
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        What a load of horse manure.

        And I have the figures to back it up.

        Before I created free content, as well as my own products, I made about
        $1,500 a month online.

        Today, I can make 3 times that much in a day.

        Why? Because I built up my credibility by giving people info, for free, that
        they can actually use.

        Again...what a load of horse manure.
        Isnt it grand steve,

        you hit it on the head. People online i see, ask what the people can do them...but yes, you must ask what you can do for them. If you can give them free stuff, taht is great high quality and actually works and helps them get closer to their goal..... what excuses do they have then, to not buy your product.

        I noticed long ago, that the psychology of the buyer these days, and even in a bad economy goes like this.

        Their thoughts :-

        1) "What this sounds like a scam??"

        2) "oh well, look he has some free crap, i might as well download it and read it"

        3) "not too bad, wow, I am suprised I might try this technique"

        4) "Hot diggity, dang!.... this actually worked. Man this guys rocks, I wonder what else he has on offer"

        There is a strange link between step 3 and 4. Not many IMérs know about it. But it is actually powerful. You can write ok mediocre products for free. But what if you gave away say $97 of free content. I mean really poweful stuff. What do you think will happen then.

        YOu have to give to get...but make sure the stuff you give is not horse manure. I have learnt this the hard way. I have studied this stuff for a long time, and those step 1-4 is the process that a buyer does not know their brain goes through. We have done exercises in our offices and tests to prove this is the case. So use it to your advantage.
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    • Profile picture of the author genietoast
      I see some truth in this article. I've often had trouble with blogging. Article marketing seems to be a little easier for me.

      I suppose it's because an article serves one purpose rather than a whole blog consisting of a series of unique articles bent around one theme. I find blogging to be more cumbersome.

      Blogging as a platform is incredibly useful for sharing, communicating and drawing traffic. You can use blog networks live ComLuv Network and Blog Engage to spread the word around pretty quickly.

      Monetizing can be a little trickier and should be well thought out.

      With article marketing you can write about any niche market you are pleased with, although it might be wise to specialize for branding purposes. With blogging you have to focus on just one niche, one theme.

      Most of all I like email marketing because I can shape the relationship with my subscribers in advance. Give them something sequential to follow.
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    • Profile picture of the author BruceWood
      Originally Posted by Ernie Mitchell View Post

      Giving away free content is seductive commercial foreplay.

      The quality of the foreplay equals the success of the seduction.

      There is also a factor of knowing who to woo.

      If you're wooing the wrong subscribers you're not going to get lucky.
      Amen to that!

      Freebies are good for building lists, but it's not a BUYERS list!
      IMers have been seduced into the importance of blogs and freebies by the very people who call them "customers".
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    • Profile picture of the author Ernie Lo
      Originally Posted by Ernie Mitchell View Post

      Giving away free content is seductive
      Sorry buddy but this forum is big enough for only 1 Ernie:p
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    • Profile picture of the author MP80
      Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

      I think Kern nailed it with his "results in advance" idea - get your people to experience a real success, even a limited one, from what you offer, and the rest of it becomes much more valuable and desirable.

      Constantly giving away all of your most valuable stuff is a sucker's game, as the parents of daughters have known for generations. How do you think they came by the expression "why buy a cow if they can get the milk for free"?
      Originally Posted by airabongco View Post

      And finally, learn the concept of teasing people. It is a copywriting concept. Never give all of your ideas away. Save it for the paid product. If you follow these, then I can tell you that giving away free stuff will make you money. Try and see.
      I think that these two quotes sum it up for me. I have been writing a book (who isn't? lol) and was wrestling with the idea of turning it into a blog instead. I am now thinking that the blog would be better used to create a market for the final product and to establish some 'street cred', rather than giving everything away. From what I am hearing, it sounds as though a targeted list of subscribers is the ideal way to go, and the blog should be monetized with ads and perhaps some affiliate products (but not too many).

      Am not sure how to go about writing (a blog) while holding back some of the information though, that sounds like a bit of an art in itself. I would think that it would be easy to cross into the area of providing useless information. Any tips?

      Also thanks to schttrj for the list of top blogging earners - that was an eye opener, and interesting to compare the official figures with some of the figures that I have seen in advertisements.

      TZ that site is pure gold and has heaps of potential! (I certainly can't laugh as I am one of the one's still getting his 'beak wet'
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike McAleer
    Yes you should look for buyers vs. Freebie Seekers. Buyers is always the best path to take because you will get lots more income from it by far.
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  • Profile picture of the author MarcoTwain
    i can see the holes in what you saying , everyone can approch this business in a different way just as in offline business and i think that list building is the main core of this business ( at least for me ) , giving away free ebooks CAN be harmful i agree but only if you did it the wrong way , otherwise if you managed to build a relation with your list ( and yes it does take some time ) it will worth the wait but you HAVE to give away useful instructions that really helps and you have to dig deep in your niche to discover the needs and how you can deliver to your guys on the list.
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  • Profile picture of the author dremora
    Pat Flynn and Joe Shoemaker made a killing with their blogs. Pat Flynn gave away tons of freebies people normally sell for $97. He has a great blog and he gets hundreds of comments to each post. He makes tens of thousands a month just from the blog (affiliate income). Steve Pavlina makes about 40k/mo fro his blog. He built a huge list of fans and followers via his blog and he sells $2000-$3000/pop coaching seminars in addition to all the affiliate income from the blog. You need to put the right content and attract the right kind of readership. Steve Pavlina targeted the people who have college degrees and high income, and wrote for them. Pat Flynn targeted white collar folks who make decent income. If you target broke fast food workers, you can't expect them to buy a whole lot (unless your niche is $2-$5 reports) Target the white collar slaves who have plenty of disposable income, and sell them achievable goals, not pipe dreams, and you can also make a killing.
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    • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
      I'd argue that, the very nature of his blog, targeted EVERYONE.

      MMO blogs are so successful because of their mass appeal....if done right.

      Pat managed to 'evolve' blogging...taking what alot of people have done already, but adding his own personal brand/story and marketing to it, with a little mix of transparency.

      It's all about forming a relationship with people AND showing them that products really work, and ANYONE will buy from you.

      P.S. Did you mean "Jeremy Shoemaker"?

      Originally Posted by dremora View Post

      Pat Flynn and Joe Shoemaker made a killing with their blogs. Pat Flynn gave away tons of freebies people normally sell for $97. He has a great blog and he gets hundreds of comments to each post. He makes tens of thousands a month just from the blog (affiliate income). Steve Pavlina makes about 40k/mo fro his blog. He built a huge list of fans and followers via his blog and he sells $2000-$3000/pop coaching seminars in addition to all the affiliate income from the blog. You need to put the right content and attract the right kind of readership. Steve Pavlina targeted the people who have college degrees and high income, and wrote for them. Pat Flynn targeted white collar folks who make decent income. If you target broke fast food workers, you can't expect them to buy a whole lot (unless your niche is $2-$5 reports) Target the white collar slaves who have plenty of disposable income, and sell them achievable goals, not pipe dreams, and you can also make a killing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Here's something I'm sick of an I know other people are sick of as well
      because it has been brought up in other threads here by some very well
      respected Warriors. No, I won't mention any names because that always
      gets me in trouble. If they want to come out on their own and verify my
      comments, they can.

      What we're all sick of is other people trying to cram their business model
      down our throats claiming that's the only way to do things and if you're
      doing it another way, you're either not doing it as efficiently, as good, or
      you're just plain stupid.

      There is more than one way to run a successful business and coming here
      and saying that any legit business model is bad just because you say so
      is not only wrong but irresponsible.

      Again...horse manure.
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    • Profile picture of the author netkid
      Blogging and giving away free stuff should be part of a "multiple channels of marketing" business model, not an end in itself.

      My blog is "homebase" for my customers to visit and learn from. When I serve both my offline and online customer base, they all go over to my blog for updates, webinars, workshops, my view on marketing, etc. The blog itself is my "freeline."

      My business cards, my stationary, my marketing flyers and any other collateral material refers to my blog.

      My blog is also my,

      1) public relations tool
      2) brand
      3) point of contact between my customers and I
      4) public feedback forum for my products, services and opinions
      5) "comfort zone" to those who don't know me but are open to what I have to offer
      6) platform to show my expertise
      7) Opt in base, where I get about 150 natural opt ins a month (growing my email list)
      8) base of credibility (customers know I really exist)
      9) platform for marketing affiliate products

      Yes, I also sell products with dedicated sales pages and that brings in good income too. My main source of income is from offline at the moment.

      *****I am completely sold on blogs and giving away free stuff*****

      Everyone is entitled to their own opnion. I know the OP put this out to get opinions and maybe "rattle some cages" but I swear by this model and tell everyone at my seminars that blogs will probably "outlive" any online marketing and social media device out there for years to come.
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      • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        There is more than one way to run a successful business and coming here and saying that any legit business model is bad just because you say so is not only wrong but irresponsible.
        Of course there are other ways to run a successful business. And I mention why I came up with that title for the thread below...

        It's just my opinion, based on experience, that constantly giving away free "how to" content in the hopes that it will miraculously turn people into buyers over time is not the most efficient model and a bad one compared to others.

        But there are more well known people than myself saying so as well.

        Originally Posted by netkid View Post

        I know the OP put this out to get opinions and maybe "rattle some cages"
        Yep, I can't argue with that. Though I wouldn't say to "rattle some cages" but I know exactly what you mean. The subject line of the post was chosen because I thought it would generate more views. A little salesmanship in selling the thread - absolutely.

        Someone posted a thread very similar to this, like my original post talks about and had a total of, I believe, 7 posts in the whole thread because the title just didn't generate enough curiosity or kneejerk response to have people check out the thread.

        I suppose a more appropriate title may have been - I think blogging, in what I think of in the traditional sense of blogging and constantly giving away free "how to" content is not an efficient business model -

        But I shortened it to the one you see.
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        • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
          Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

          It's just my opinion, based on experience, that constantly giving away free "how to" content in the hopes that it will miraculously turn people into buyers over time is not the most efficient model and a bad one compared to others.
          You don't need to rely on miracles. If you aren't turning your traffic into buyers with your free content then something else might need to be addressed. Others have probably already addressed the issues some bloggers may face and have adapted their business model so that they CAN make a great living from using their free blog to create targeted traffic.

          Maybe some of these established marketers are dropping their blogs because they have already established their reputation and it is NOW more profitable for THEM to focus their efforts elsewhere. Their audience are probably different to someone elses who is still doing quite well off blogging.

          It isn't always about buyers either. Maybe your business is with advertising or services such as reviews and guest blogging where your income is not directly related to how many digital products you sell; traffic is more important.

          Maybe you are building up your online reputation to attract coaching or speak at seminars. You might become interesting to a wide audience and can sell yourself that way.

          Maybe you want an audience that won't be burnt out by receiving nothing but product info from you. Maybe you want your audience to be long lasting, and even if your next product doesn't suit them, one down the track might. You don't want to burn that chance because you realise that not every product is suited to everyone in your audience.

          Really, is creating a decent blog post much different to creating a decent email?
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  • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
    Lol, are you all really basing your idea that blogging is dead on Ryan Deiss?

    That guy, to me at least, is the ultimate guru-product marketer.

    Some time ago, PPC was dead and he was of course a SEO expert willing to teach you for $2000.

    Before that, SEO was dead and he was a PPC expert willing to teach you.

    Now, blogging is dead and he is willing to teach you something else.

    Come on.. tomorrow, what he teaches now will be dead and blogging will be in again. And so it will continue.
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  • Profile picture of the author caseycase
    I agree that your model can make money, but so can blogging and giving away free stuff. You ascent to the fact that your post title is meant to draw attention, and you do not really believe it.

    However, that causes a problem, don't you think? What about the poor new guy/girl who comes on here all excited about blogging and giving away free stuff (something you say in post #72 that you don't disagree with), and now you have scared and discouraged him or her?

    Sure, maybe you got lots of views and responses here (something I am clearly now contributing to), but at what expense to others? Also, at what expense to your trust level here?

    Just a thought. I bring it up as I remember being a newbie and getting freaked out when I read threads like this.
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    • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
      Originally Posted by caseycase View Post

      I agree that your model can make money, but so can blogging and giving away free stuff. You ascent to the fact that your post title is meant to draw attention, and you do not really believe it.
      Where did I say I don't really believe it?

      I said this:

      "It's just my opinion, based on experience, that constantly giving away free "how to" content in the hopes that it will miraculously turn people into buyers over time is not the most efficient model and a bad one compared to others.

      But there are more well known people than myself saying so as well."
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  • Profile picture of the author bukriv
    Just like what's been said earlier, it's a numbers game. You stop blogging to focus on a more profitable business model that would require less effort from your part. Work wisely, not hard.
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  • Profile picture of the author caseycase
    This is what I was reading that led me to think you did not believe your title -

    "The subject line of the post was chosen because I thought it would generate more views. A little salesmanship in selling the thread - absolutely.

    Someone posted a thread very similar to this, like my original post talks about and had a total of, I believe, 7 posts in the whole thread because the title just didn't generate enough curiosity or kneejerk response to have people check out the thread.

    I suppose a more appropriate title may have been - I think blogging, in what I think of in the traditional sense of blogging and constantly giving away free "how to" content is not an efficient business model -

    But I shortened it to the one you see."

    If I took that wrong, my apologies.
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    • Profile picture of the author Todd Sampson
      Well if you are Ryan Deiss this move makes perfect sense. He has already established himself as an "expert" in the field and has built up a brand and a following. Partly due to his blog I am sure. If I already established myself as a credible expert and built a following, I am sure I could sell membership to my private email list. Ryan has 200,000 people on his list. If he gets just 1% to give him $10 a month that is $20,000 a month, but let's face is this is Ryan freakin Deiss. He is probably going to get at least 3-4% a month. That is $60,000-$80,000 a month.

      Let's take a look at it from Ryan's stand point. He is now making a good reoccuring income from his list. Now he has a list of "proven buyers" instead of a bunch of "tire kickers" and "freebie seekers". What would you rather have 6,000-8,000 people proven to spend money or 200,000 freebie seekers. And lets think about this, if you are paying $10/month to get emails for someone, are you going to open his emails. I bet Ryan's open rates go through the roof. Now let's say he sends out a promotion 1/month. Think he is going to make a killing with a list of proven buyers who are going to open every one of his emails? hmmmmm....

      Now, do you think any new marketer just starting out can do this? I don't think so. If you do you better click on over to my blog and sign up now, because I am going to start charging for this s#@t.

      Yeah, I think for us new marketers we are going to have to stick to the old method until we establish ourselves as "experts" and have 200,000 people on our email lists.

      just the thoughts of the common man.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
    Disclaimer: I haven't read the whole thread, just the initial post.

    Giving valuable free content vs. selling content (in the form of infoproducts, coaching, memberships, etc.) can definitely be problematic. It's difficult to determine what to give away and what to sell. And am I giving so much away that it's hurting my sales? Etc.

    I think that the person you quoted made a huge mistake by deleting his blog. If he continues to insist that he be paid for his content the way he seems to suggest, he'll continue to struggle.

    You can DEFINITELY give away content in a way that hurts your sales, so it's important to have a system for it. As it happens, this was a huge problem for me too: I didn't know how to integrate providing valuable free content with selling content. So I dug pretty deep and found mentors who were able to help me out with this and now I generally don't have a problem with it.

    Successful, reputable marketers will tell you that providing free content is key to building your credibility and audience. David Siteman Garland of TheRiseToTheTop.com just came out with a new book Smarter, Faster, Cheaper in which he stressed the importance of giving valuable free content on a consistent basis. Scott Stratten's new book Unmarketing stresses the same thing as does Seth Godin.

    So how do you give away valuable free content in a way that encourages sales instead of hurting them? You do it using structures. I learned a lot about this from two of my mentors Alexandria Brown and Lisa Sasevich who teaches speaking (for free) to sell.

    There ARE ways to do this with integrity, in a way that serves your audience, without being hype-y or sales-y.

    Remember this: Good, free content is just a way for people to 1) sample what you have to offer (with no risk because it's free) and 2) get to know you.

    We only buy from people we know, like and trust, so sharing your valuable free info allows people to get to check you out, see if they resonate with you and see if you're as fit for them.

    Ok, enough of the obvious. On to the formulas:

    Formula 1: Sample Platter

    In this formula, you share tips and examples from you know about your subject. It's a [i]sample[/] of what you offer in your products and programs.

    Online marketing, the MMO niche, is a good example of a niche where there's a LOT of information you need to know to make money online. Online marketing isn't hard per se, but there's a steep learning curve. So you can write free articles/blog posts, shoot videos and record audios all day long and still not run out of content.

    I assume you can't put all that you know in one or two blog articles or one or two videos. (If you can, you've got problems!) So share a few solid tips and then show them how to get more.

    Just like Baskin Robbins gives you a free spoonful of ice cream, give your audience a spoonful of information and then show them where to get more comprehensive information (through your paid products and services).

    This is where you typically use the What + Why (free) = How (paid) formula. And there's a lot you can share in the what and the why, so don't discount it. There's two parts:

    1. Share why would your audience want to do this or consider it

    2. Share what they need to do. This sounds kind of like the how, but doesn't go very deep. Give your audience a high-level overview. "5 Steps to..." or the "5 Parts of..." Tell them that you want to share this information to "help you get started."

    Again, this is solid information that you're giving out.

    Tell stories. Get people excited! Then tell them all about the great offer you've put together that goes much deeper and shows/teaches them exactly HOW to do it.

    Formula 2: Deep Dish (Solution, Problem, Solution -- PSP)

    Does your content really offer more than one solution? If so, go ahead and just outright give them the solution to a problem they have! Go deep with it. Usually however, the solution causes another problem. And you SELL the solution to the second problem.

    For example, I can tell you exactly how to structure a profitable preview call for your products or services. The call will give you the EXACT steps to follow to create a content-rich call which will sell your products and services like crazy.

    I can do that in a 60-90 minute call. For free. (And I DO mean solid content you can implement immediately after the call to start seeing results.)

    However, that creates another problem: You will only get about 30% of the sales that are possible with that one-time call. The other 70% will come from the follow-up e-mail marketing you send AFTER the call.

    Do you know what to say in your autoresponders AFTER the call to capture the other 70% of those sales? I can show you how to do that and include templates and examples, with the complete e-mail campaigns for my last 3 six-figure product launches in my (fictional) infoproduct which I sell for $997.

    Think about everything that you know. Break it down into smaller pieces. What do you know that will help solve your audience's problems? Share it! We're all aware of Murphy's Law. Solving one problem usually leads to another problem! Sell them the solution to that next problem.

    These are formulas or structures that will help make your content valuable, yet still help you sell.

    You also need to seed your information (articles, blog posts, talks, etc.) with mentions and references to your paid product or service.

    However, seeding is NOT just breaking into your content with a plug or pitch with a product plug! That can be abrasive and very sales-y.

    Seeding is giving immediate value and then showing them where to get more.

    So you can mention at the beginning of your article, blog post, etc. that this information comes from XYZ Product. Tell them you're going to show them exactly how to... or what to... or whatever, and then give it to them! Then at the end, let them know that XYZ product will teach them (list a few benefits here) and they can get it at....

    If you're doing a teleseminar, you can say something like "I'm going to give you everything I can in the next 60 minutes (or however long) and then show you how to take it further if you want to."

    This sets you up to make your offer at the end of the call. If you're sharing "5 Steps to..." or "7 Tips for..." and make the last step or tip getting more information or support by taking advantage of your offer.

    See how easy that was? No hype. You're not being pushy and you're acting with integrity.

    We're all out there to sell something and everybody knows it. There's nothing wrong with that.

    Just make sure you come from a place of service and give people valuable content. Of course, you can't please everyone and some will still complain. But don't let those few bother you. Focus on those you CAN serve.

    These structures have made a world of difference for me when using content to market. Hope this helps you too!

    Michelle
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    • Profile picture of the author Justin Goff
      Blogging is NOT the most effecient use of your time as Anonymous Affiliate has explained.

      I ran a $5k per month blog for a while, ended up selling it and tried to do the same thing again in another niche but failed miserably. Blogging to make money is VERY time consuming (content and relationships with bloggers mean everything)

      You could get very good at paid traffic and make 20x what the average blogger makes. Not to mention it's pretty hands off.

      I can also attest to the fact that Shoemoney who does around $1 million a year from his blog says that blogging for an hour a day is really not even worth his time for the $1 million per year. People who are crushing it in other verticals like Shoe make a lot more off their other sites than their blogs...

      - Justin
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      • Profile picture of the author Anonymous Affiliate
        Originally Posted by Justin Goff View Post

        Blogging is NOT the most effecient use of your time as Anonymous Affiliate has explained.

        I ran a $5k per month blog for a while, ended up selling it and tried to do the same thing again in another niche but failed miserably. Blogging to make money is VERY time consuming (content and relationships with bloggers mean everything)

        You could get very good at paid traffic and make 20x what the average blogger makes. Not to mention it's pretty hands off.

        I can also attest to the fact that Shoemoney who does around $1 million a year from his blog says that blogging for an hour a day is really not even worth his time for the $1 million per year. People who are crushing it in other verticals like Shoe make a lot more off their other sites than their blogs...

        - Justin
        Yup, yup, my experience as well: for the time it takes to build up a successful and popular blog (months upon months of endlessly writing, promoting and networking free content out of your butt), you can publish 10 products, recruit an army of affiliates, built a 50,000-plus mailing list, SEO 100 niche sites, tweak dozens of profitable PPC campaigns, and much more, which will all bring in way more cash than blogging for the mere reason that they're all a more efficient way of leveraging your business.

        That's the problem with blogging: it's difficult to leverage because you're bottlenecked by the amount, quality and consistency of the free content you can publish. You, as the blogger, are your own bottleneck.

        For example: in PPC, once you tweak a campaign to profitability, you can boost your ad budget 10-fold. In SEO you can outsource and pay for better backlinks. In list building, you can CPA-pay for more leads, in product creation you can recruit more affiliates for more sales... but in blogging, you cannot multiply your creativity! the very nature of blogging eventually sabotages your business growth.

        I dont know if this is horse manure or not, but it's indeed been my experience as a former blogger-happily-turned-something else
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        • Profile picture of the author netkid
          @nightingale,

          Here's how I see it. Give away the "what," and charge for the "how."

          You can write tons of content of what is the problem, what they should do, what kinds of general ways to solve the problem, etc. But you can monetize the "how," in other words your version of how to solve the problem.

          This what I teach in my seminars and it seems to take care of the quandry of how I can provide quality content and get paid for it without giving the farm away in my blog.
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        • Profile picture of the author schttrj
          Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

          Yup, yup, my experience as well: for the time it takes to build up a successful and popular blog (months upon months of endlessly writing, promoting and networking free content out of your butt), you can publish 10 products, recruit an army of affiliates, built a 50,000-plus mailing list, SEO 100 niche sites, tweak dozens of profitable PPC campaigns, and much more, which will all bring in way more cash than blogging for the mere reason that they're all a more efficient way of leveraging your business.

          That's the problem with blogging: it's difficult to leverage because you're bottlenecked by the amount, quality and consistency of the free content you can publish. You, as the blogger, are your own bottleneck.

          For example: in PPC, once you tweak a campaign to profitability, you can boost your ad budget 10-fold. In SEO you can outsource and pay for better backlinks. In list building, you can CPA-pay for more leads, in product creation you can recruit more affiliates for more sales... but in blogging, you cannot multiply your creativity! the very nature of blogging eventually sabotages your business growth.

          I dont know if this is horse manure or not, but it's indeed been my experience as a former blogger-happily-turned-something else
          Now, you are speaking and I understand what you mean.

          But if I had been in your place, I would have sold my blog...rather than just kill it!
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          • Profile picture of the author Anonymous Affiliate
            Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

            Now, you are speaking and I understand what you mean.

            But if I had been in your place, I would have sold my blog...rather than just kill it!
            Again, I didnt kill the domain. I killed the blog. The domain was transformed into a list-building site with a back-end sales funnel in place. Result? the income generated from that domain doubled in a very short time with a fraction of the work involved.
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            • Profile picture of the author schttrj
              Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

              Again, I didnt kill the domain. I killed the blog. The domain was transformed into a list-building site with a back-end sales funnel in place. Result? the income generated from that domain doubled in a very short time with a fraction of the work involved.
              There you go!

              You actually channelized that blog traffic into a better way. I hope you still have your blog in the back-end to give traction to the main domain.
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              • Profile picture of the author Anonymous Affiliate
                Originally Posted by schttrj View Post

                There you go!

                You actually channelized that blog traffic into a better way. I hope you still have your blog in the back-end to give traction to the main domain.
                Of course I dont. Like I previously said before, I believe blogging is a highly unefficient business venture (monetization wise) so my efforts are spent somewhere else.
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  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    You said "To make money, you have to sell something. " I agree. That said, in a previous business we had a 10% conversion. That was moving people from the free product to the premium.

    I believe HULU is an expert at this in that they get you hooked and then you have to pay. This model is very popular in certain seedy parts of town where people give away their product for free, build up a client base, and only later do they start charging money.
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  • Profile picture of the author JustinAtlan
    Giving free info is the best business model.

    But go with premium offers too.

    Free catches traffic and trust. Add value, add paid offer, monetize and deliver free info. =)
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    In order to make money with your blog’s ads you must get massive traffic. Free content attracts many readers.

    Here is one of the best posts about blogging I have read lately:

    http://www.dailyblogtips.com/10-simp...et-page-views/
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