Is It Right??

Nothing wrong with it.

That's a tough question to answer. Let me use a question to answer a question though...

Do you truly believe that your product is superior?

If yes, wouldn't it be a great service to the customer to provide them with more value?

Is it immoral to give a customer more help than they've been able to find?

I honestly don't have an answer to the question, but in this forum I would definitely not step on anyones toes. Interesting topic though!

With sales comes competition...ethically, I think it would be a crappy thing to do, but then in the offline world, this kind of thing happens. Personally, I wouldn't do that to someone. I would start my own classified thread...But not everyone is me.

If someone has asked for advise or is struggling with sometlhing I do believe it is fine to contact them and offer help.

If they have posted on another's paid thread that they are interested in purchasing that service, I do not feel it is right to contact them and say you have it cheaper. In fact I would guess this would be soliciting on the WF and probably against TOS...(just a guess).

I would never hire someone who PM'd me and said:

"Hey, I saw you in so and so's WFH thread and I thought this was a great opportunity to promote my own services to you. I know it's a commercial message that's totally unsolicited, but it's not spam, right? Anyway, I'm cheaper than the other guy, so you should definitely forget person A and check my service out instead. Kthx. Regards! -randomguy"

I will NEVER do this..

If you are GOOD enough, clients will come to you.

I think a private PM is perfectly reasonable to send in competition. Especially as if you want best quality work your not going to necessarily choose the cheapest option anyway. All seems fair in this situation as quality will win out every time.

It's not wrong at all. That's what you get when you market your services in an open forum.

If person C contacts me via PM, I'm going to report it for spam, so they better be careful who they contact with their offer. I'm capable of looking at all the offers and choosing the one I want.

People are in business to make money, plain and simple.

Lilblackdress answer is spot on if it is an open thread and they are looking they are fair game but I would not hijack someones sales pitch karma n all that

I would agree that it's wrong. If you wanted to call attention to how cheap your service is, then change your own service thread to the title "Cheapest X Service on WF".

The example provided by someone above about you being in line for pizza at one place and someone else calling out, "I've got pizza for only $11 down the street and no line." Well first, I'd think to myself, "How good can that pizza be, if the owner or employee is down here begging for business instead of helping customers" and secondly there ARE business situations where that is NOT allowed.

I belong to a group that runs a food booth as a fund-raiser each year at the Saugerties Garlic Festival. One rainy weekend when we had few customers, someone started calling out what we offered and that we were slashing prices. Someone came and politely told him that "barking" or soliciting was not allowed.

It sounds like from what some folks above are saying if you PMed them, you might be told politely or rudely that what you were doing was not allowed.

My own feeling is that you didn't do it, because you it didn't feel right to you. Good call.

I guess it still seems like the private message thing crosses a line.

Interesting dilemna.

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with it at all. Business does it all the time. Supermarket price wars, where one supermarket looks at the promotions of another and then undercuts them for example.

In the real world you get ticker sellers hounding each other's patches where the tourists are. It can get a little unfriendly but to me it is not unethical.

I can't think of any possible instance in which PM'ing someone to lowball a competitor here would be ok/ethical/allowed. I also can't imagine it being that effective, though, so it doesn't seem like much to worry about. When I have gotten those types of messages (and I have), I just ignore them.

It may not be spam.

If you post asking about a script/sevice and someone answers you via PM that isn't spam.

If they randomly send PM ads, that is spam.

In this example, it would be spam though as it was directed to a specific person.

-g

Pop Corn? This is getting good.

The fact that you asked the question portends the answer.

Uh, no. It's not right.

If you are in any doubt that it is not the right thing to do, consider this.

I am a writer and can probably do a better job of writing your WSO than you, in just 6 hours if I push. So...

How about the next time you post a WSO, I quickly make one that offers the same thing, is slightly cheaper, and then I contact everyone in your thread that shows any interest in your product, offering mine instead?

Does it still seem reasonable? Not to me, and I wouldn't do it!

Forgetting the morality of the issue, we then move on to whether it fits in with the rules.

Repeatedly I have heard that offering services via PM is counted as spam, and that was from Paul. Not aimed at me I should add, but I have seen him state this numerous times, so don't play dumb.

Even offering free review copies is pushing your luck, so forget that argument.

Taking advantage of the investments of another, through unethical means that also fly in the face of the rules and the spirit of the forum, will not win you many friends.

Cheers,
Colin Palfrey

P.S. If you think an employee of Pizza hut could walk into Dominoes and start handing out fliers without getting into trouble, well you can probably get pills for that.

Definitely not wrong. But may be somewhat unethical since we at warrior are a very tight community. But I'd still do it i guess lol

I think Caliban Darklock already said this in another thread a little while ago, but

If you have to ask then you probably shouldn't do it...

Let's call this what it is shall we?

This isn't a major corporation competing with another business giant.

This is one person, a fellow Warrior, chasing their chance to make a living online and to build a quality life for themselves.

They're either slaving away at writing themselves or dealing with finding and juggling writers capable of doing the work for them.

And directly targeting someone who is inquiring about their service is not the same thing as a major corporate rivalry.

That's quite probably contributing to making it that much harder for that person to pay their rent, buy their groceries, keep the power on and the internet hooked up.

And that, especially between Warriors, is just not cool.

Sure, we all need our own clients but there's plenty of room to do that without causing trouble for your fellow Warriors and fellow "little guy".

On top of it not being cool, it's not a very good way to do business.

For starters, how do you even know that person wants something cheaper?

They might have gone to that writer specifically because they aren't cheaper, rather looking for a particular skill set or quality level.

That's why you need to stand on your own merits, put forward your unique skill set and quality level, price it appropriately and let the right customers match themselves with you.

That way you'll get clients that you'll have a much better working relationship with AND you'll sleep better at night.

Let all people do their business and you also do your business in that competitive market, competition is very important in business and you have to be competitive to survive..... but you shouldn't think of others, think of yourself, how you can offer best quality at cheaper price, this is very important in business.

It seems as if there is really more than one question being discussed here:

1. Whether it's ethically questionable, in and of itself, to send an unsolicited message to someone who has expressed an interest in your competitor's service

2. Whether it's ethically questionable to send such a message in the specific setting of a forum where doing so is prohibited by the owners, who are allowing you conditional access to said forum

Mgtarheels seems to be working with question number one, looking at the question in the same way that you might ask whether gay marriage is immoral in and of itself (irrespective of whether or not it's illegal). The responses, however, seem to be centered around question number two, the answer to which is a clear yes.

The second question is really the practical one, but as far as my opinion on the first, I believe that it is indeed ethically questionable to piggyback on someone else's work (their thread, which attracted the interest of a potential customer) in an attempt to take the reward for their work away from them.

i personally think is fine,
but maybe is just my personal opinion.

Perhaps a better question to ask yourself, Mike:

Is this really how I want to build a client base?

Won't you be attracting the type of people that will dump you in a second if a cheaper writer comes along?

Rose

By this definition all advertising is "SPAM". I don't want ads breaking up the articles I'm reading in the newspaper or ads in my movie theatre where I paid for a movie not ads.

my 2 bits: It's inappropriate to interfere with an on-going transaction between a client and a provider even if it is just at a beginning stage. However if someone has expressed an open request for information, it would be foolish not to respond with an offer.

Now I have a twist? If you are a friend of 'client' and you are aware that Provider B is cheaper/better than Provider A, you'd tell him right?

Well, I never expected this many responses :p

Anyway, I think you have to look at it from two perspectives, both as the one receiving the message and the one sending the message.

As the receiver of the message:
Personally, I would welcome an offer of something that I was looking for at a cheaper price. However, I usually spend a good amount of time searching around for the best offer. I would probably take the time to look at the service the person was offering. I am guessing that the service isn't exactly what I was looking for, so I would just ignore the message. But, if the service was what I was looking for, I would take the person up on the offer. So, the message wouldn't bother me at all.

As the sender:
I think that if you were to pm someone about your service, you would have to be careful about who you pm with the offer. You can't just pm everyone that responds on the thread because someone will eventually report you and tell the original thread owner. When you do pm someone, you can't bash the other service. You must be polite and only offer a suggestion to your services. But, like I said in the original post, I have never done this, only thought about it. So, there is obviously something holding me back from sending the message.

The sense of "rightness" :p

Just my thoughts...........

I say that nothing is wrong with this. This is a part of business.

If person A wants to share the price, business proposal, etc.; they should be doing it in a private way anyway. For example: PM, email, or phone.

If they broadcast what they are doing they are asking for someone to come in and challenge that.

In some ways I am finding this to be one of the saddest threads that I've watched in awhile.

Folks, it never has been and never will be, only about making money in business.

What so many here are focused on is making money tomorrow, making the quick hit. If you are truly about growing and nurturing your business, you will find out that creating the energy that allows money to your business is about giving more in value than what you get in return. It's evident to me, and is only my opinion, that some of the posts here are from those who live a mindset of scarcity and not one of abundance. It's the scarcity mindset that says, well if I don't get caught then it's ok, it's only about making money and I'm going to get mine anyway I can.

Come on people. It's not what this is all about. So many have gotten caught up in this competition thing. It's really not about competing with others for your piece of the pie. There is enough pie for everyone, it's about what you bring to the table, not what you do to someone else in order to get yours. If you keep playing that game you will find that it's a vicious cycle with no real winner.

I posted this in a thread I created a week ago:
Alexa and Kay, I've not taken the opportunity to ever say this to each of you, but I so enjoy the ways in which you each express yourselves. You both get "it," by "it" I mean, you truly understand what being in business is all about. I can also tell that there are some others who have posted in this thread also understand "it."

I truly hope that some others who have posted here will learn to get "it."

All to often, so many make this IM stuff so difficult when in reality it's very simple. If you do things in a certain way, you will make money, develop and grow your business, but that certain way is not doing whatever you can get away with to make money. The concept is simple as is the doing.

Brian

Hmmm.
Interesting question Mike.

on one hand there is fair play this is business and if the service being offered is comparable it is the responsibility of one to let people know their service is just as good but at a fairer price. So in that I say there is nothing wrong with letting people know.
Now the actual issue is it ok to send unsolicited commercial mail via pm to another member? NO
There is however nothing wrong with starting a classified ad of their own and comparing person a with their service and pricing structure.

PM'S receiving unsolicited commercial mailings end up banned in my observation that is not fair play that is what it is spam and in any sense that is not something one should do in order to gain clients.

Nor is it really something one should do if they wish to present themselves in the light of being a professional competitor.
Just my thought
-Will

Zanti -

Your point was so well made. Thanks for adding your thoughts. It is about a much bigger picture - an abundant picture. The scarcity thing is what makes people go after what's right in front of them, even if it may be wrong, because the base belief is "who knows when the next prospect will come along?"

This mindset is easy to excuse and rationalize. (I've had this mindset before and didn't recognize it). When someone is openly willing to cross boundaries into questionable territory, it gives an aura of desperation and shadiness.

If it seems questionable, pass it by. If you think OTHERS could see it is questionable, pass it by. There are plenty of opportunities out there. Nobody really needs to resort to invasive tactics that many clearly find objectionable (as many people have stated here).