If you complain about "Re:", "Oops", "Sorry" type emails...you're missing something IMPORTANT!!!

17 replies
If these emails frustrate you, maybe you should take a step back. You obviously signed up to that list for a reason. And it's likely that lots of others did as well.

So rather vent about how you don't like their marketing tactics, why not pay attention to how they build their list.

Then put what you learn to use and build your own list. Then you can market to your subscribers in any way you see fit.
#complain #emailsyoure #important #missing #oops #type
  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
    Well Lance, don't you know...

    ALL marketers who use those "ploys" are being deceptive and immoral.

    (hoo boy...)

    </sarcasm>
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

      Well Lance, don't you know...

      ALL marketers who use those "ploys" are being deceptive and immoral.

      (hoo boy...)

      </sarcasm>

      The audacity of some people!
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      "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
      ~ Zig Ziglar
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  • Profile picture of the author Angela V. Edwards
    Yeah, what's happening, I think, is that we become more "immune" to marketing tactics as we go along. It's so easy to forget how easily that sort of thing worked even for us in the beginning.

    Marketers who talk about how certain techniques are "dying" are forgetting that there are new people entering the IM arena every, single day. New people who actually can be sold to using these methods.
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    • Profile picture of the author John S. Rhodes
      I sent a note to Jeff Walker about this back in November.
      Here's part of what I wrote:

      "What gets me is that there *always* seem to be emails like the one
      below. There are always technical issues (e.g., credit card
      rejections, server meltdowns, or broken links). And, there are almost
      always 2nd and 3rd chances for various reasons (e.g., doors opened
      late, international availability and time zones, and more). I know
      that there is a lot of complexity and there are issues in most cases
      but man, credibility takes a hit, don't you think?"
      I wrote a few other things but I don't need to include that
      material here. What I want to say here is that I expressed
      my concern.

      Jeff wrote me back. It was a long, sincere note with a ton
      of great information. He gave me a lesson in launching
      which I greatly appreciate. Here are a couple of snippits
      to chew on. I hope he doesn't mind...

      "There often are tech issues in launches - when you're really pushing
      the envelope and trying to achieve big things, it can get messy."
      I completely understand this.

      That being said, I'm sure there are some people that might invent
      problems and use them as an reason to mail. That ain't what I teach,
      but I can't control what people are doing.
      I thought this was awesome.

      Although Jeff's since sent out "I'm sorry!" emails, I feel confident
      that there are real issues. Or, he's made an honest mistake.

      I coach people to try and turn any negative into a positive. It's
      really not that hard to do that and to be honest. There's no reason to
      invent things.
      This is a nice bit of wisdom. Yes, it's the classic "Turn lemons
      into lemonade!" but it's true and it works.

      And look, really, why invent things? There's enough going
      on to avoid invention and fabrication.

      So, what are the lessons?

      1. Smart marketers see problems as opportunities.
      2. There's plenty of complexity; issues really do happen.
      3. Product launching is an art and science.

      The real bottom line to me personally? Jeff Walker rocks.

      ~ John
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  • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
    I would suggest doing some research on hypnotic marketing...

    - Jared
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  • Profile picture of the author Li Weng
    Personally i couldn't care less what 'headline' tactics they use. All I'm concerned about is whether or not the offer has good value.
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  • Profile picture of the author jazzyjeff
    Lance,

    I think that instead of people complaining about the "sorry" and "oops" emails, they should be opening them up and learning from them. Take every opportunity to better yourself and see what works.

    Jeff
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  • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
    Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

    If these emails frustrate you, maybe you should take a step back. You obviously signed up to that list for a reason. And it's likely that lots of others did as well.

    So rather vent about how you don't like their marketing tactics, why not pay attention to how they build their list.

    Then put what you learn to use and build your own list. Then you can market to your subscribers in any way you see fit.
    It's true that you can learn a lot from the e-mail marketing
    comes into your inbox - the good, the bad and the ugly.

    If I don't like a technique such as 'Re:', bad news or other
    approach then I don't use it in my own e-mail marketing
    - no matter how better the results could be.

    Just because something works and gets higher click throughs
    (or even sales) is not a reason to use it blindly.

    That said, I won't unsubscribe from someone's list just
    because they've done something I wouldn't use. I get a
    lesson and choose if I want to use it or not.

    Personally, I use a gut check on a technique and ask
    myself "How would I feel about receiving this e-mail?"

    If I don't like it, then I'll ditch it and not use it.

    It's not all about click-through-rates and short-term sales.

    There's also the relationship and trust with your list that
    can be blown in a moment with one faux pas.

    That said, you need to be prepared to repel some people
    to be able to attract the kind you want.

    It's a balance and a choice.

    Dedicated to your success,

    Shaun
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

      Personally, I use a gut check on a technique and ask
      myself "How would I feel about receiving this e-mail?"

      If I don't like it, then I'll ditch it and not use it.

      It's not all about click-through-rates and short-term sales.
      Some good points here Shaun, but there's a reason why testing is important...

      If you have 20,000 people on your list, why would you assume that just because something doesn't feel right to you would necessarily bother anyone else?

      So, using that method alone, you may send out something or some wording or tactic that you feel in your gut is fine, but it's almost guaranteed you'll piss off someone.

      Case in point - last year around this time, I made one of those JibJab videos related to decorating a Christmas tree. I posted it on my blog, and in an email I mentioned at the end to go check out the holiday video I put up.

      I got an irate email from a guy who said he was unsubscribing because I didn't have the courage of my convictions because I said "Holiday" instead of "Christmas". He was on my list a month - he had no idea what my convictions were. But his viewpoint was different than mine.

      Should I have changed everything I do because he unsubscribed?

      It's human nature. We all have a different definition of right and wrong, ethical, moral etc.

      I am not referring to obviously wrong or misleading things here. But more these gray area, ones.

      We got into this business to make money. Yet we all run around like making money is a bad thing if you use a tactic that someone else feels is not moral or ethical. You're going to run into that no matter WHAT you do. In the meantime, you're letting emotional decisions run your business. If your business is a hobby, well, fine. But if it pays the mortgage...

      Believe me - if you screw up bad, you WILL know. Mass unsubscribes, emails from your subscribers, etc. THAT should be your barometer. Gut checks are a good start, but testing should be the final determination of what you decide to do further on.

      Remember - when you try to please everyone...well, you know the rest.

      And, one last time before all of you "self-appointed moral police" jump on me, I am not referring to doing things that are 100% on the books illegal, immoral, etc. I'm simply referring to these - ahem - "questionable" email subject lines that seem to get people's panties in a bunch. So, save it

      :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author John Coutts
        I only care about whether or not an email and its offer interests me - not about the tactics, good or bad, that's used.

        John.
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      • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
        Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

        Some good points here Shaun, but there's a reason why testing is important...

        If you have 20,000 people on your list, why would you assume that just because something doesn't feel right to you would necessarily bother anyone else?

        So, using that method alone, you may send out something or some wording or tactic that you feel in your gut is fine, but it's almost guaranteed you'll piss off someone.
        I agree that testing is important Mike.

        I don't assume that just because something doesn't feel
        right for me that it means that everyone on my list will
        feel the same way.

        What I'm saying is that I choose to run my business based
        on my principles and attract (or repel) subscribers based
        on who I am - not just the effectiveness of a technique.

        I can put a gun to your head and get money from you
        immediately (it's an effective method!) - but I'm not
        prepared to BE that type of person to get those type
        of results.

        For me it's all about BE > DO > HAVE

        Some people are prepared to do anything to have the
        results they want, e.g. money.

        I also take a step back and ask: Who do I have to BE
        to get this result? Or, what does doing this say about
        who I am (to me and others)?


        Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

        Case in point - last year around this time, I made one of those JibJab videos related to decorating a Christmas tree. I posted it on my blog, and in an email I mentioned at the end to go check out the holiday video I put up.

        I got an irate email from a guy who said he was unsubscribing because I didn't have the courage of my convictions because I said "Holiday" instead of "Christmas". He was on my list a month - he had no idea what my convictions were. But his viewpoint was different than mine.

        Should I have changed everything I do because he unsubscribed?

        It's human nature. We all have a different definition of right and wrong, ethical, moral etc.

        I am not referring to obviously wrong or misleading things here. But more these gray area, ones.
        You example illustrates it well.

        You just be who you are and then you'll offend some and
        keep most people who resonate with your approach.

        Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

        We got into this business to make money. Yet we all run around like making money is a bad thing if you use a tactic that someone else feels is not moral or ethical. You're going to run into that no matter WHAT you do. In the meantime, you're letting emotional decisions run your business. If your business is a hobby, well, fine. But if it pays the mortgage...
        I choose to run MY business in MY way and attract the
        type of prospects and clients who appreciate my approach.

        I don't sacrifice my principles just to make a quick buck and
        place a lot of value on my own reputation and modus operandi.

        This has been working for me since I first started in business
        back in 2000.

        I enjoy my business too because it allows me to be more of
        who I am.

        Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

        Believe me - if you screw up bad, you WILL know. Mass unsubscribes, emails from your subscribers, etc. THAT should be your barometer. Gut checks are a good start, but testing should be the final determination of what you decide to do further on.

        Remember - when you try to please everyone...well, you know the rest.
        Testing and the bottom line are not the only things I consider
        before choosing a particular method or technique to promote
        my business.

        Yes - they are supremely important but I also have other
        checks in my business before choosing a particular method.

        I know that using 'bad news' for example will likely increase
        open rates and sales - but I choose not to do it.

        I'm happy doing business in MY way and working with clients
        who like that too.

        I can look myself square in the face in the mirror and proud
        of who I've been in my business whilst also making money
        in the process.

        It's not an either/or decision.

        You are free to run your business as you wish and that's fine.

        We all have our own value judgements on particular methods
        and I'm crystal clear on where my boundaries are.

        Dedicated to your success,

        Shaun
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    • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
      Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post


      That said, you need to be prepared to repel some people
      to be able to attract the kind you want.

      It's a balance and a choice.

      Dedicated to your success,

      Shaun
      Yeah, I agree with that. If you antagonize one group
      of subscribers you'l also be building credibility with another.

      It's a quirk of human nature. These days when I look
      at the number of people who unsubscribed to a given
      email I say "Good riddance" because it boils down the
      list so it's full of people who either like me or aren't
      paying much attention... and at least those that don't
      like me get lost.
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  • Profile picture of the author richfit
    It's about Grabbing Your "Readers" Attention... Hypnotic Marketing 101!

    Whatever it takes to get them to open their email & STOP what they are doing...Ethical or not, doesn't matter. They subscribed to your email...therefore TEST, TEST, TEST!

    Obviously it has worked before and it will work again and again.

    Deliver SUPER HIGH ACTIONABLE CONTENT and you won't be complaining about how people write subject lines
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
    Shaun,

    Great responses. Points well taken.

    You'll continue to do well.

    Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
      Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

      Shaun,

      Great responses. Points well taken.

      You'll continue to do well.

      Mike
      Cheers Mike.

      Here's something to consider.

      If everyone goes out there doing the same things in the
      same way to get the same results then every one becomes
      the same.

      As you know a key part of marketing is differentiation and
      giving people a reason to choose you.

      Part of my strategy, is having a clear clarion call on what
      I will and will not do to make the sale and get the money.

      Part of the reason some people choose (or reject) me is
      because of how I interact with my prospects and clients.

      A minority of marketers will do anything to make the sale
      and the majority will choose or reject methods based on
      their own ethics.

      I just choose my marketing methods based on more than
      merely the results of testing.

      Dedicated to your success,

      Shaun
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      .

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      • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        Here's something to consider.

        If everyone goes out there doing the same things in the
        same way to get the same results then every one becomes
        the same.
        LOL - if we all did the same things, this would surely be a boring niche.

        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        As you know a key part of marketing is differentiation and
        giving people a reason to choose you.

        Part of my strategy, is having a clear clarion call on what
        I will and will not do to make the sale and get the money.
        I agree Shaun. But I'll bet that if you ask ANY marketer, they'd tell you the same thing about themselves. That's why I mentioned that what we think of ourselves and what we do is not always the best answer.

        But at the end of the day, you have to be able to look in the mirror...

        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        Part of the reason some people choose (or reject) me is
        because of how I interact with my prospects and clients.

        A minority of marketers will do anything to make the sale
        and the majority will choose or reject methods based on
        their own ethics.
        Amen to that.

        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        I just choose my marketing methods based on more than
        merely the results of testing.

        Dedicated to your success,

        Shaun
        Obviously it's working for you.

        BTW - I agree not everything you do should be based on test results. If I implied that, I didn't mean to.

        I only meant we should not ignore testing altogether in certain circumstances...

        Like I said above - we gotta be able to look in the mirror.

        Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
        Banned
        What I'm saying is that I choose to run my business based on my principles and attract (or repel) subscribers based on who I am - not just the effectiveness of a technique.

        I can put a gun to your head and get money from you immediately (it's an effective method!) - but I'm not prepared to BE that type of person to get those type of results.
        The thing is, so many people's reaction to meaningless little things like an "oops" email are so over the top, you'd think they WERE robbed at gunpoint.
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