Tim Ferriss - Big Lesson

54 replies
Well I just saw a news segment about Tim Ferriss' book 4 Hour Body and let me tell you this should be a lesson for all you product creators out there.

Unfortunately Tim's book is so far out there as far as some of his weight loss methods are concerned. NBC did a segment about the ice bath in particular and what an epic fail. The doctor they had in their segment called it dangerous to say the least and from a common sense point of view, I agree with the doctor.

This can't be too good for Tim's book that's for sure.

The BIG lesson for product creators... Make sure everything you claim can be backed up with REAL proof. Not just you enduring pain in an ice bath just to sell a bunch of books. When you have indisputable proof the media won't OWN you and you're book won't be at risk.

-Out
#big #ferriss #lesson #tim
  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    Are you a body builder or Doctor, Mike?

    EDIT: I do agree with your post

    Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      Are you a body builder or Doctor, Mike?

      Chris
      One need not be either to have common sense.
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
        Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

        One need not be either to have common sense.
        Indeed, but there is also a lot of truth in the following statement: fact is stranger than fiction.

        If you eat fast food 2-3 times a day, you couldn't possibly lose weight right?

        I did(Most people's common sense would tell them the opposite, that it is not possible)

        I was doing Door 2 Door sales and was eating nothing but Chinese food and McDonald's every day, yet still lost 10 Kilos over 5 months.


        Chris
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        • Profile picture of the author Kierkegaard
          Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

          If you eat fast food 2-3 times a day, you couldn't possibly lose weight right?
          I haven't read this guy's book but the idea behind this statement is true. For 1 month back in the late 90s I only ate McDonalds value meals (McMac meal, 1/4 pounder meal, etc) with diet coke. I ate there 2 twice a day and lost a stone.

          This is probably because 2 value meals a day is around 1700 calories and 40g of fat. My body needs around 2000 calories and 50g of fat.

          BTW I wasn't trying to lose weight just intensely working on a project and only left the office to walk to McDs.
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        • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
          Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

          Indeed, but there is also a lot of truth in the following statement: fact is stranger than fiction.

          If you eat fast food 2-3 times a day, you couldn't possibly lose weight right?

          I did(Most people's common sense would tell them the opposite, that it is not possible)

          I was doing Door 2 Door sales and was eating nothing but Chinese food and McDonald's every day, yet still lost 10 Kilos over 5 months.


          Chris
          That's why. You was active.

          The devil is in the details.
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          • Profile picture of the author ankur sharma
            Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

            That's why. You was active.

            The devil is in the details.

            I am sure, tim ferris was thinking to release another book "How i created multi million dollar empire selling books, with just 2 hours of work per month". He just didnt spend some time scrutinizing his own product.

            From my point of view, when you are such a big celebrity, you got extra credibility and responsibility to act like a "responsible marketer". When you say "Buy my product and get results". You got to back it up with enough evidences and proofs. Otherwise, **** will fly right on your face.

            I have seen same sort of things happened with some wso sellers. They wasnt able to backup their claims and i saw hundreds of warriors getting annoyed with false hypes. When some doctors say its dangerous, entire world believes it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
          Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

          Indeed, but there is also a lot of truth in the following statement: fact is stranger than fiction.

          If you eat fast food 2-3 times a day, you couldn't possibly lose weight right?

          I did(Most people's common sense would tell them the opposite, that it is not possible)

          I was doing Door 2 Door sales and was eating nothing but Chinese food and McDonald's every day, yet still lost 10 Kilos over 5 months.


          Chris
          This is true. I've seen a documentary where the guy lost weight eating nothing but fast food every meal. I've also seen a study where a college professor seeking to prove you couldn't lose weight eating Little Debbies proceeded to do just that.

          It's not what you eat. It's how many calories you take in vs. how many you expend. The source of the calories is irrelevant... for weight gain or loss. For other reasons, it's still a bad idea to eat crappy foods, but it's a myth that they will make you fatter just based on their content. It's simply a question of calories in vs. calories out.

          John
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      • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
        Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

        One need not be either to have common sense.

        Common sense doesn't always sell best though. Just saying.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      Are you a body builder or Doctor, Mike?

      Chris
      Actually Chris I am a bodybuilder and taking ice baths for 20 minutes will do a lot of harm to your nerve endings, give yourself frostbite and do damage to your package (if you know what I mean)

      I'm not talking about a quick cold blast of water after a heavy workout like Arnold used to do, Tim is talking about sitting in water and ice for a great deal of time. All you're going to accomplish is cooling your core and when that happens you're in deep trouble. Your body will start shutting down all in an effort to keep your vital origins warm.

      Drinking 8 glasses of ice water a day is much different than sitting in an ice bath that's for sure. (Drinking about 8 - 10 glasses of ice water a day will burn approximately 70 calories)

      Chris, I don't need to be schooled in weight loss, health and fitness... I'm pretty sure I got that covered.

      I'm just saying, from a marketing point of view... make sure you have indisputable proof or the news will have a field day at your expense.
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      • Profile picture of the author celente
        Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

        Actually Chris I am a bodybuilder and taking ice baths for 20 minutes will do a lot of harm to your nerve endings, give yourself frostbite and do damage to your package (if you know what I mean)

        .
        Excellent the mrs wants more kids so thanks for the tips they will come in handy!!!

        So to throw a spanner into the works, I am going to sit in an ice bath for 4 hours a day!!!

        no more kids for me!!!

        now, hopefully the other half doesnt see this post. **looks around**
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        • Profile picture of the author paulie888
          Originally Posted by celente View Post

          Excellent the mrs wants more kids so thanks for the tips they will come in handy!!!

          So to throw a spanner into the works, I am going to sit in an ice bath for 4 hours a day!!!

          no more kids for me!!!

          now, hopefully the other half doesnt see this post. **looks around**
          Frostbite is a very real danger, especially for those macho types who seek to outdo each other and stay for as long as possible in there. Without close supervision when performing these death-defying acts, I can see this ending up in a spectacular fiasco that will ultimately be blamed on the book by the media!
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave Rodman
    Banned
    I've heard his explanation on the purpose of the book. It wasn't a diet guide for someone looking to lose weight. It was about finding the people that were able to accomplish amazing things through unconventional methods and then conducing his own experiments. I don't doubt that a random doctor would find fault with that. Those are the types of people that Ferris didn't really want to hear from.

    Ferriss is kind of a blowhard with certain things, but I think most of the people that criticize are just haters. I remember the same type of stuff when 4HWW came out.
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  • Profile picture of the author packerfan
    I haven't read his book, but ice baths have a lot of benefits with regards to inflammation. Lots of professional athletes use them to accelerate healing, etc.

    No idea how it relates to weight loss, but there's a lot of evidence that it works for what I mentioned.

    In fact, I have a friend who is a top level tri athlete and he uses ice bath's religiously. This guy pays big money for great trainers, therapists, etc. He's a serious competitor.
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    Most spas and gyms I've ever been to have ice water plunges/dips. I guess multi million dollar corporations put them in for their real or perceived benefits.

    George Wright
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Mike - The target market for that book would see the ice bath "risk" as a challenge. It's simplistic as it burns calories as the body tries to maintain core body temp - you could stand in out in the cold without a coat for a while and get the same results....but it wouldn't sound as exciting.

    From the sales site:

    • Reach your genetic potential in 6 months?
    • Sleep 2 hours per day and perform better than on 8 hours?
    • Lose more fat than a marathoner by bingeing?
    Indeed, and much more. This is not just another diet and fitness book
    Almost sounds like an IM product, doesn't it?
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Mike - The target market for that book would see the ice bath "risk" as a challenge. It's simplistic as it burns calories as the body tries to maintain core body temp - you could stand in out in the cold without a coat for a while and get the same results....but it wouldn't sound as exciting.

      From the sales site:

      * Reach your genetic potential in 6 months?
      * Sleep 2 hours per day and perform better than on 8 hours?
      * Lose more fat than a marathoner by bingeing?

      Indeed, and much more. This is not just another diet and fitness book

      Almost sounds like an IM product, doesn't it?

      Standing in the cold is much different than emerging yourself in an ice filled bath, that's for sure.


      * Reach your genetic potential in 6 months?

      That is true, you can reach your genetic potential in less than 6 months if you're dedicated. Now does that mean looking like Arnold Whatshisname... No. but you can reach YOUR potential.


      * Sleep 2 hours per day and perform better than on 8 hours?

      For how many consecutive days? Obviously not for the rest of your life. When I was in the military I went through a lot of sleep deprivation and for the first 48 hours as long as you were constantly busy and kept your mind working then it's possible but anything beyond that is bullsh*t. (Unless of course bullets are raining down on you) and once you do get some sleep you will not be 100% either... you'll feel groggy as hell, almost feel drunk and unbalanced.


      * Lose more fat than a marathoner by bingeing?

      Personally, I've never seen a fat marathoner, have you?

      Just sayin'
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    • Profile picture of the author paulie888
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Mike - The target market for that book would see the ice bath "risk" as a challenge. It's simplistic as it burns calories as the body tries to maintain core body temp - you could stand in out in the cold without a coat for a while and get the same results....but it wouldn't sound as exciting.

      From the sales site:



      Almost sounds like an IM product, doesn't it?
      Kay, some of these feats sound rather dangerous and risky if attempted over an extended period of time. Sleeping 2 hours per day over the course of a month or longer? In my book, that a recipe for disaster, especially when you get people blindly following this stuff without seeking the advice of their doctors first.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike McAleer
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Mike - The target market for that book would see the ice bath "risk" as a challenge. It's simplistic as it burns calories as the body tries to maintain core body temp - you could stand in out in the cold without a coat for a while and get the same results....but it wouldn't sound as exciting.

      From the sales site:



      Almost sounds like an IM product, doesn't it?
      WOAH! You have got to sleep 8 hrs a day!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Barboza
    Most doctors are wrong. They just repeat what others doctors taught them at College, who also repeated what their teachers taught them.

    The medicine and drug industry is managed (manipulated?) by some rich people at Roche and GSK.

    I am not saying Ferris is the deal and that you should follow him, I'm just saying that we cannot trust everything on the news (which is also manipulated by rich guys)
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    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
      Banned
      Originally Posted by AlexBarboza View Post

      Most doctors are wrong. They just repeat what others doctors taught them at College, who also repeated what their teachers taught them.

      The medicine and drug industry is managed (manipulated?) by some rich people at Roche and GSK.

      I am not saying Ferris is the deal and that you should follow him, I'm just saying that we cannot trust everything on the news (which is also manipulated by rich guys)
      Yes, if only it were poor guys managing these things instead, then we could believe what they say unconditionally. It's a well-known fact that poor people don't lie, cheat, steal, etc.

      lol.....
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        What concerns me most about the four hour body is it appears to make your chest hair fall out and give you the urge to pull your shorts up round your thighs like some nancy boy...Before and after shots give you a graphic showing, not for the faint hearted...

        What are "anti gravity shorts"? Do they make you fly?

        EDIT. Anti gravity shorts give the nancy boy effect, sorry, It's late here.

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        • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          What concerns me most about the four hour body is it appears to make your chest hair fall out and give you the urge to pull your shorts up round your thighs like some nancy boy...Before and after shots give you a graphic showing, not for the faint hearted...

          What are "anti gravity shorts"? Do they make you fly?

          EDIT. Anti gravity shorts give the nancy boy effect, sorry, It's late here.
          ROFL! That was worth scrolling through the whole thread for
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          • Profile picture of the author Chuck Avants
            I haven't read all the posts here and the topic has changed from the intial post so back to that main idea.

            Someone once said "any publicity is good publicity.'

            Many years ago when people read Ann Landers she made a very
            negative article about Chiropractors. In the next few weeks many Chiropractors income increased due to an influx of new patients.
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  • Profile picture of the author JayInOrlando
    More than that, I just don't think the book is selling all that well. People want to get rich in 4 hours and they will buy like mad for that.. but how to inject yourself with hormones and such, that's kinda limited as to your market.
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    • Profile picture of the author James Foster
      Originally Posted by JayInOrlando View Post

      More than that, I just don't think the book is selling all that well. People want to get rich in 4 hours and they will buy like mad for that.. but how to inject yourself with hormones and such, that's kinda limited as to your market.
      Did you even read the book? Seriously.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
      Originally Posted by JayInOrlando View Post

      More than that, I just don't think the book is selling all that well. People want to get rich in 4 hours and they will buy like mad for that.. but how to inject yourself with hormones and such, that's kinda limited as to your market.
      :rolleyes: The book opened at #1 on Amazon and is still in the top 10 for all applicable categories. The book is selling VERY well. Also its not a "how to inject yourself with hormones and such" book, its a book about health, fitness and overall well being which is always going to be just as popular a topic as making money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    Just asking a simple question Mike, because many people have a habit of hearing somebody like the doctor you mentioned above, and without any real knowledge or understanding of the topic at hand, go around preaching their words as gospel, creating and spreading more misinformation.

    It was not an attack, nor did I say that I disagreed with your post. Obviously emersing your self in glacier cold ice water for an extended period of time is going to cause massive problems.


    Respectfully
    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    Okay, let's real this back into a marketing standpoint...

    If the news can challenge even one statement in your product they will exploit it for all it's worth... They will definitely "eat the hell out of it" regardless if the rest of the product is entertaining, accurate and even helpful.
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  • Profile picture of the author LiamP
    Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

    Well I just saw a news segment about Tim Ferriss' book 4 Hour Body and let me tell you this should be a lesson for all you product creators out there.

    Unfortunately Tim's book is so far out there as far as some of his weight loss methods are concerned. NBC did a segment about the ice bath in particular and what an epic fail. The doctor they had in their segment called it dangerous to say the least and from a common sense point of view, I agree with the doctor.

    This can't be too good for Tim's book that's for sure.

    The BIG lesson for product creators... Make sure everything you claim can be backed up with REAL proof. Not just you enduring pain in an ice bath just to sell a bunch of books. When you have indisputable proof the media won't OWN you and you're book won't be at risk.

    -Out
    LOL it's probably boosted sales quite a bit and his status as an expert will have been given a huge boost too.

    Publicity is almost always good, no matter the tone. Case in point - after the bestseller 'Into Thin Air' about the Everest guided trip disaster where 8 people died, demand for guided Everest trips skyrocketed.
    Also we're talking about Tim Ferriss book now on an unrelated forum now as a result of the NBC story aren't we?
    So 'negative' publicity for product creators can be gold.

    As for proof, Tim has plenty - hypothermic treatment has a lot of advocates and has had a lot of research done. Remember that a TV story with one doctor isn't in itself proof of anything. It's just one side of a controversial and complicated issue.

    So as for product creation, I agree absolutely you should have proof and documented examples. I just think you've picked the wrong example of somebody who doesn't have proof here.

    Full disclosure - I am on Tim Ferriss slow carb diet (and losing over 1 kg a week). Haven't read the section on ice baths yet, doesn't sound like something I want to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kierkegaard
    You don't need ice baths. This is an example of good marketing.

    - ice baths sound more dramatic than lukewarm showers
    - people have heard of ice baths being used by athletes

    If you take a luke-warm shower every day and sleep with just enough covers over you at night to stop you from being cold but not feeling hot, then your body will burn 500-800kcals just regulating your body temp.

    Ice-baths will do the same thing but more dramatically (not quicker or more effectively but with more drama)

    People who are looking for a dramatic new regime to tackle their body problems will be attracted to this notion. People who aren't thinking of getting in shape will still talk about the ice baths - even if only to crticize it - as we have seen in the news reports.

    BTW no doctor will stick his neck out. Any health thing that isn't eat sensibly and take moderate exercise will be criticized. Most doctors know no more about nutrition than you do (and I have doctors in my family).
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by Kierkegaard View Post

      Most doctors know no more about nutrition than you do (and I have doctors in my family).
      That's definitely a true statement... I didn't say I necessarily believed the doctor 100%. I know quite a bit from personal experience. However, that being said, everyone else out there in TV land will believe what the TV is saying back at them and that might in fact hurt sales.

      Why chance it...
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  • Profile picture of the author Billy Rey
    well that part wasnt really an integral part of the book.

    he was just doing it as an experiment mainly to prove how Michael phelps could burn 9k cals in a day and stay like that. It was because of the temperature.

    I think the suggestion in the book was to dirnk cold water in the morning. Take cold baths or somethin like that Not take ice baths.

    But pro athletes do it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Marker
    I don't want to start any debates on the subject but there is well known diet that now has a lot of research studies behind it to support its claims. Whenever it comes up in the media, some doctor will pop up and claim that diets like this don't work, that they're fads, no evidence and so on.

    I run some health blogs and whenever a big company invest in some PR you notice a lot of doctors popping up saying that the product or program is dangerous, doesn't work, etc. I also notice my sales going up.
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  • Profile picture of the author ankur sharma
    This is really insane. The op just telling you to be more aware of your claims. Back them up with proper proofs. Thats the core theme of this thread, i guess.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mohsin Rasool
    Do not know that medical stuff or claims in the book but another lesson of product creators is to have marketing and buzz like Tim Ferriss so at least you get free spot on TV news!

    This is good for him to attract more and more fans who like to go against what Media tells them to do!

    regards,
    Mohsin
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  • Profile picture of the author markowe
    Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post


    The BIG lesson for product creators... Make sure everything you claim can be backed up with REAL proof. Not just you enduring pain in an ice bath just to sell a bunch of books. When you have indisputable proof the media won't OWN you and you're book won't be at risk.

    -Out
    It's not just PROOF that's required, in my opinion, it's real expertise. Far too many people are out there knocking out products with medical and health advice, relationship advice and all kinds of other advice, when they have NO business to be doing so. It's the reason I have avoided the health niche as without full medical training you do NOT have the full picture, I don't care how many Wikipedia articles you have read.
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    just a lil FYI.... 90%+ of ALL NFL players use ice baths.

    they do so because it reduces inflammation and speeds up recovery time dramatically and allows them to play.

    does it work to lose weight?

    I have no clue... haven't seen anyone do so, but players swear by it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hlatky
      Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

      just a lil FYI.... 90%+ of ALL NFL players use ice baths.

      they do so because it reduces inflammation and speeds up recovery time dramatically and allows them to play.

      does it work to lose weight?

      I have no clue... haven't seen anyone do so, but players swear by it.
      They also have "magic" bracelets and necklaces that improve balance.

      They were proven not to work, but the players still swear by them.
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      • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Mike Hlatky View Post

        They also have "magic" bracelets and necklaces that improve balance.

        They were proven not to work, but the players still swear by them.
        Soaking in an ice filled tub isn't the same as wearing a bracelet that they probably don't even notice 10 minutes after putting it on.
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    • Profile picture of the author Phil Ainsworth
      Crikey!

      Looking at this thread above... only ONE person has actually read the book, but everyone is happy to comment on it?

      As someone who has read the book I can perhaps help you out with a bit of guidance here...

      "Providing proof" - the book is JAM-PACKED with case studies, photos... hundreds of people "beta-tested" Tim's methods before it went to print, seriously the guy couldn't have provided more proof it he'd have tried.

      "Ice baths" Ok, from the way everyone's been talking about this, you'd think it was the core element of Tim's program. It's not. Seriously, the core of the program is... diet and exercise (surprise surprise). However, it's diet and exercise from a Ferris point of view (ie condensed to as quick and easy as possible)

      As for them being dangerous... well, like anything if you overdo it, I'm sure they are. Tim puts time limits in the book, so I would say stick to those and if you start to feel that it's hurting you... see your doctor. Pretty obvious, huh?

      As for drinking iced water for weight loss, yep this is also covered in the book, and is very effective. Cold temperatures in general are also covered, as others have posted above.

      "Sleep 2 hours a day" This ISN'T dangerous, when you know how. The method involves changing your sleep pattern so that instead of sleeping for 6-8 hours once every day, you sleep for 30 mins, four times every day. It's not as easy as just switching though, so please don't just try it based on that idea, there are ways of training "into it". This is revolutionary and gives you hours of extra free time every day. YES, it has drawbacks (ie it probably suits single people, who are also self employed, most of all!) but it does genuinely work. For those who can't go this far, there are other variations in the book where you can sleep only four hours a day, and still keep a relatively normal lifestyle.

      Peace and Krispy Kreme doughnuts

      Phil Ainsworth
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  • Profile picture of the author NateRivers
    Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

    Well I just saw a news segment about Tim Ferriss' book 4 Hour Body and let me tell you this should be a lesson for all you product creators out there.

    Unfortunately Tim's book is so far out there as far as some of his weight loss methods are concerned. NBC did a segment about the ice bath in particular and what an epic fail. The doctor they had in their segment called it dangerous to say the least and from a common sense point of view, I agree with the doctor.

    This can't be too good for Tim's book that's for sure.

    The BIG lesson for product creators... Make sure everything you claim can be backed up with REAL proof. Not just you enduring pain in an ice bath just to sell a bunch of books. When you have indisputable proof the media won't OWN you and you're book won't be at risk.

    -Out
    I took an ice from the knees down after a long run yesterday and it was extremely painful but afterwards no more shin splints.

    ... I don't really even have a comment about Tim Ferris...I think his blog is awesome, but he definitely uses the novelty/shiny object concept
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarah Russell
    Like Phil, I've actually read the book, and one thing I'd say is that Tim is quite up front with the fact that the results described in the book are his personal experiences only (ie - not necessarily recommended or backed up by medical science). Things like ice baths and injecting hormones are things he tried in the pursuit of self experimentation, and in fact he often cautions against doing them.

    From a marketing standpoint, of course the media is going to pick up on some small detail and blow it out of proportion - that's what they do, and to expect that they've read the book themselves and considered Tim's recommendations in light of their own personal circumstances is naive.

    Otherwise, most of the book focuses on diet and efficient exercise. I appreciate the idea of figuring out what works for yourself, instead of blindly following a system that works for someone else (who may have an entirely different physiology). It's an interesting read, but not a step-by-step instruction manually that you should follow wholesale.
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    • Profile picture of the author Phil Ainsworth
      Originally Posted by Sarah Russell View Post

      Like Phil, I've actually read the book, and one thing I'd say is that Tim is quite up front with the fact that the results described in the book are his personal experiences only (ie - not necessarily recommended or backed up by medical science). Things like ice baths and injecting hormones are things he tried in the pursuit of self experimentation, and in fact he often cautions against doing them.

      From a marketing standpoint, of course the media is going to pick up on some small detail and blow it out of proportion - that's what they do, and to expect that they've read the book themselves and considered Tim's recommendations in light of their own personal circumstances is naive.

      Otherwise, most of the book focuses on diet and efficient exercise. I appreciate the idea of figuring out what works for yourself, instead of blindly following a system that works for someone else (who may have an entirely different physiology). It's an interesting read, but not a step-by-step instruction manually that you should follow wholesale.

      Double thumbs up Sarah :-) I can see why your site is called "common sense marketing" lol

      Phil
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      • Profile picture of the author Sarah Russell
        Originally Posted by Phil Ainsworth View Post

        Double thumbs up Sarah :-) I can see why your site is called "common sense marketing" lol

        Phil
        Haha - thanks...

        But seriously, there's some sort of irony to marketers who haven't read the book critiquing the media, who haven't read the book.

        Not that I think Tim cares - I'm sure he's sitting there on his toned, if cold, ass watching the $$$ roll in
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Garcia
    Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

    Well I just saw a news segment about Tim Ferriss' book 4 Hour Body and let me tell you this should be a lesson for all you product creators out there.

    Unfortunately Tim's book is so far out there as far as some of his weight loss methods are concerned. NBC did a segment about the ice bath in particular and what an epic fail. The doctor they had in their segment called it dangerous to say the least and from a common sense point of view, I agree with the doctor.
    I see what you're saying. I think it is very important for us to make sure our product can't just be 'proven false' or anything like that.

    However, I would trust Tim over a random doctor. I view Tim as an unofficial scientist and he doesn't deliver his audience content unless there is SOMETHING behind it that he trusts a lot. Obviously everyones body is different and if you are really out of shape or in low health an ice bath could in fact be dangerous. But...I feel that is the exception and not the rule.

    Ice baths are thought of as a great compliment to certain types of training/physical goals by many professional athletes, professors, and doctors.

    Tim is a prime example of the phrase, "If you are good at what you do you will have haters." or whatever the saying is.

    People try...TRY so hard to call Tim out on his books and his content, yet his influence and audience hasn't stopped growing (I think) since the release of "The Four Hour Work Week" and I highly doubt it will stop any time soon.

    Tim's an "out there" kind of guy with "out there" kind of products. I'd be floored if everyone just sat by and agreed with him, and I'm kind of glad there are people disagreeing with him. It helps people like me (people who enjoy his content a lot) keep in mind that Tim's information is just like other information online: Take it with a grain of salt, test it in controllable conditions without risking anyones health, and if it works use it. If not, throw it away and try something else.

    I think the OP raised a great point, though. Definitely something to keep in mind with products.

    Cheers,
    Nick
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    This is an EXCELLENT book. I'm half way through my second reading. Like any book, you have to take some bits and leave some bits and do what is best for you -- I'd bet there's at least one or two things in there that EVERY Warrior could benefit from.

    I myself have lost 37 pounds since January 17th of this year, doing my own thing (not using Tim's weight loss methods).

    Hmmm... maybe I need to write the next new weight loss product. Good thing I've been taking pictures since I started this thing!
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    I once lost 10 lbs. in a month by simply sleeping 2 extra hours. Because it time-crunched my busy day, I ate less. You still burn calories even when sleeping, so the net effect was shedding lbs. Lots of ways to get it done.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nevin McQ
    Thanks for telling everyone but I did not even need anyone elses input into even thinking about buying or even reading it



    Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

    Well I just saw a news segment about Tim Ferriss' book 4 Hour Body and let me tell you this should be a lesson for all you product creators out there.

    Unfortunately Tim's book is so far out there as far as some of his weight loss methods are concerned. NBC did a segment about the ice bath in particular and what an epic fail. The doctor they had in their segment called it dangerous to say the least and from a common sense point of view, I agree with the doctor.

    This can't be too good for Tim's book that's for sure.

    The BIG lesson for product creators... Make sure everything you claim can be backed up with REAL proof. Not just you enduring pain in an ice bath just to sell a bunch of books. When you have indisputable proof the media won't OWN you and you're book won't be at risk.

    -Out
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  • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
    From a marketing perspective: Tim launched this product in the exact same manor as the large MMO products. He released snippets of the books and videos of the experiments he featured in the book to really build up the anticipation -to increase his authority and following.

    He was guest blogging about dieting and fitness to build up his authority and increase his following.

    He used Twitter to create a storyline of the process he was going through.

    He took a controvesial look at a done to death market. This created more buzz and curiousity.

    He made it a challenge to his followers by doing a running commentry of where the the book was sitting in the top seller lists.

    He tackled the bad reviews and the media calling him out by putting them in front of his followers his eyes and portaiting them as nay-sayers. He also covered the negative publicity in some of his pre-sell by talking about the two extremes and how they don't work together. ie doctors and body builders.

    The difference between his launch and the MMO products is that it wasn't high priced - it was actually quite cheap. It also didn't lack the scarcity.

    I believe the negative media actually helps him. He wants his product to be seen as extreme and different. Desperate people have tried safe methods and it hasn't worked, why not try something more risky?

    Whether his content is safe or works doesn't really affect the way he successfully marketed it.
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  • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
    Clearly you didn't see him on Dr. Oz.

    Tim has gotten the thumbs up from countless doctors on this book, even if they were reluctant to do so.

    His book is going great and all of the experiments in the book were supervised by medical professionals including doctors, nutritionists, neurologists, and many more.

    Tim is a master at "body hacking" and to an extent "mind hacking", and I'm happy that he is putting all this info out there.

    James

    Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

    Well I just saw a news segment about Tim Ferriss' book 4 Hour Body and let me tell you this should be a lesson for all you product creators out there.

    Unfortunately Tim's book is so far out there as far as some of his weight loss methods are concerned. NBC did a segment about the ice bath in particular and what an epic fail. The doctor they had in their segment called it dangerous to say the least and from a common sense point of view, I agree with the doctor.

    This can't be too good for Tim's book that's for sure.

    The BIG lesson for product creators... Make sure everything you claim can be backed up with REAL proof. Not just you enduring pain in an ice bath just to sell a bunch of books. When you have indisputable proof the media won't OWN you and you're book won't be at risk.

    -Out
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    Blatant lying won't get you too much fan fair either... Tim claims you can gain 34 pounds of muscle in 28 days. Now any bodybuilder such as myself know this is pure rubbish.

    Heck, every person walking this planet should know that's impossible. There is no way on this earth you can gain that much muscle in that short a time frame, not even if you took steroids.

    There's marketing lessons all over the place on this once. The hyper bowl has definitely made this book popular but is Tim damaging his rep? Only time will tell.

    Just a case in point here:

    A lot of people say any news is good news, positive or negative. Well do you think people rushed out to buy steak and beef ribs when the Mad Cow disease was first released? Absolutely not, that stuff would probably kill you. Well some of the things in this book might just do that too if the reader takes everything verbatim ... so you still have to be careful about getting bad publicity.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cosmo Demopoulos
    I read the book. Some good advice in it, and more importantly it's motivating to many (I've dropped a good 20 pounds a blubber since picking up the book mid Dec).

    He does quite literally describe it as a Diary of a Madman, and some parts read that way. Some do not and the what to eat section is kind of Atkins with beans - it works.

    But what is important, is the buzz he created and how - this is a marketing forum after all. Now excuse me while I go have a 4 hour female orgasm in a tub full of ice while gaining 38 pounds of muscle in 97 minutes.
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