Is Clickbank taking actions on serial refunders?

by Adie 60 replies
I am asking because I see no CB policy against serial refunders. Is there any case that a serial refunder has been blocked or his paypal gets blacklisted?
#main internet marketing discussion forum #actions #clickbank #refunders #serial #taking
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  • Profile picture of the author rickdearr
    In a word: Yes

    Serial refunding is a form of fraud. ClickBank insiders told me at clickbanmastersusa that they aggressively go after fraud.

    I don't think they can do anything to the paypal account, but paypal has it's own dangers if you run any meaningful volume.
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    • Profile picture of the author wtatlas
      Clickbank simply stops a person who requests too many refunds from purchasing. I don't know how they identify the person - whether it's by credit card details, address or some other factor/s.

      In some cases it might be thought of as fraud but my experience of the quality of many Clickbank products is that it is little wonder that there are so many refund requests.
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      • Profile picture of the author notrichyet
        Originally Posted by wtatlas View Post


        In some cases it might be thought of as fraud but my experience of the quality of many Clickbank products is that it is little wonder that there are so many refund requests.

        I couldn't agree more. I think 80% of the products they are offer are pure crap. I'm diabetic, so when I saw an ebook they offer that claims they can cure diabetes, it left a real bad taste in my mouth. It doesn't seem there's any sort of screening process for the products submitted to Clickbank.
        Of course some buyers do seem to be unbelievably gullible....

        Just my two cents..

        Mary
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      • Profile picture of the author CTonline09
        Originally Posted by wtatlas View Post

        Clickbank simply stops a person who requests too many refunds from purchasing. I don't know how they identify the person - whether it's by credit card details, address or some other factor/s.

        In some cases it might be thought of as fraud but my experience of the quality of many Clickbank products is that it is little wonder that there are so many refund requests.

        More than likely ip tracking, when i first came accross clickbank way way back i remember thinking how easy it would be to simply buy loads of products and then get a refund, thats why i was put off selling products there and only have 2 on there.

        Click banks a great help and automates everything, but if you have a high
        quality product and no how to get the traffic just sell it on its own.

        There are still way to many refunds on clickbank and they dont seem to do as much as they should about this, in my opinion its to easy to be scammed by these serial refunders 60 day money back guarantee is something i doubt they will ever budge with since its became some what of a trade mark to them.
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  • Profile picture of the author uwantmedia
    You can notify them of anyone doing this and they will happily investigate.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adie
    To identify a serial refunder I think is easy for them, especially if that person uses the same paypal or credit card in most of his transactions. I spoken to someone here before saying he requested around 5 to 10 refund almost every day... shocking revelation! I stopped discussing with him then....
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  • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
    Originally Posted by Adie View Post

    I am asking because I see no CB policy against serial refunders. Is there any case that a serial refunder has been blocked or his paypal gets blacklisted?
    I'm sure they do, but if you use DL Guard, you can always take action yourself.
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    • Profile picture of the author Adie
      Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher View Post

      I'm sure they do, but if you use DL Guard, you can always take action yourself.
      Hmmm, can you explain a little bit? I am not using DL guard and my product is PDF with a short video. It is not controlled by some activation code or something.... thanks
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      • Profile picture of the author M Thompson
        Clickbank told me they did take action, but I've yet to see any proof.

        Now where possible if the refunder doesn't have a valid reason then i refund and then blacklist. There are obviously times when people do have a valid reason and i'll sometimes go out of my way to help.

        I love the refunders who tell me they "know everything" in the course but when questioned actually haven't made any money

        However I know that Karma drives a big truck and it's got faulty brakes
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by M Thompson View Post

          I know that Karma drives a big truck and it's got faulty brakes
          Agreed.

          Originally Posted by M Thompson View Post

          Clickbank told me they did take action, but I've yet to see any proof.
          I also haven't seen proof, but I do believe them on this point, myself: it would make no sense for them not to. Not doing so would cost them money, as well as great inconvenience.
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      • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
        Originally Posted by Adie View Post

        Hmmm, can you explain a little bit? I am not using DL guard and my product is PDF with a short video. It is not controlled by some activation code or something.... thanks
        In DLGuard....it's done via email and IP address.

        Here's the sales page for the product:

        DLGuard - Download page protector, create expiring download links
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    • Profile picture of the author Dexx
      Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher View Post

      I'm sure they do, but if you use DL Guard, you can always take action yourself.
      What do you mean you can take action yourself?

      I don't remember seeing a ban function in DL guard...not to mention that DL Guard kicks in AFTER payment is received? How could it prevent a purchase?

      ~Dexx
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      • I report them and clickbank has banned every one on the spot.

        Sometimes I report people who buy my ebook with an affilliate link and refund it within an hour, then never send another hop to my site.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
        Originally Posted by Dexx View Post

        What do you mean you can take action yourself?

        I don't remember seeing a ban function in DL guard...not to mention that DL Guard kicks in AFTER payment is received? How could it prevent a purchase?

        ~Dexx
        Dexx,

        That feature is available to you in DLG...look for it, it's there...
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      • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
        Originally Posted by Dexx View Post

        What do you mean you can take action yourself?

        I don't remember seeing a ban function in DL guard...not to mention that DL Guard kicks in AFTER payment is received? How could it prevent a purchase?

        ~Dexx
        There is a ban fuction in DL Guard, and it's been there all along.

        The idea is to ban them after they refund, so they don't purchase any of your other products....if you are so inclined.

        Look around, you'll find it.
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        • Profile picture of the author CTonline09
          Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher View Post

          There is a ban fuction in DL Guard, and it's been there all along.

          The idea is to ban them after they refund, so they don't purchase any of your other products....if you are so inclined.

          Look around, you'll find it.

          Yea dlguard has an ip banning feature, go to your import export customers list and the options there.
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          • Profile picture of the author Adie
            Originally Posted by MarketingMonkey View Post

            Yea dlguard has an ip banning feature, go to your import export customers list and the options there.
            This does not make sense because I don't think a refunder would try to request the same product from the same seller again...
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    I was so ****ed a couple of days ago, someone made me $150 commission on Seolinkvine. Refunded two days later.

    Of course, there is no way on earth to evaluate a blog network in 2 days and come to a conclusion its not worth the money.
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    • Profile picture of the author J Bold
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      I was so ****ed a couple of days ago, someone made me $150 commission on Seolinkvine. Refunded two days later.

      Of course, there is no way on earth to evaluate a blog network in 2 days and come to a conclusion its not worth the money.
      Ever heard of buyer's remorse?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dexx
    lol well I'll be damned, I logged into my old installation of DLG and there it is!

    I wonder how it works tho? Technically payment would still go through paypal -- they just get denied access to the download? (and then you'd just have to refund their payment?)

    ~Dexx
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Rodman
      Banned
      Originally Posted by notrichyet View Post

      I couldn't agree more. I think 80% of the products they are offer are pure crap. I'm diabetic, so when I saw an ebook they offer that claims they can cure diabetes, it left a real bad taste in my mouth. It doesn't seem there's any sort of screening process for the products submitted to Clickbank.
      Of course some buyers do seem to be unbelievably gullible....

      Just my two cents..

      Mary
      I don't think buyers are gullible, clickbank buyers anyways. I think they know they can request a refund if the product sucks, so they purchase it and give it a shot.

      If these sellers were selling the product on their own site, without clickbank guarantees, they wouldn't have nearly as many sales. Clickbank's easy return policy helps them....unless their product is total garbage.


      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      I was so ****ed a couple of days ago, someone made me $150 commission on Seolinkvine. Refunded two days later.

      Of course, there is no way on earth to evaluate a blog network in 2 days and come to a conclusion its not worth the money.
      Dude, are you kidding me??????

      That's not getting ripped off. Someone tried a link network, didn't like the looks of it, and asked for a refund. Immediately after they asked for the refund, they were banned from the network.

      Just because you lost a commission, it doesn't mean the buyer is ripping anyone off. There was a guarantee and they exercised it. End of story.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Dave Rodman View Post

        If these sellers were selling the product on their own site, without clickbank guarantees, they wouldn't have nearly as many sales. Clickbank's easy return policy helps them....unless their product is total garbage.
        Really? You'd perhaps be surprised how many emails I routinely get from people on my lists saying "Please can I buy this from you directly, instead of through these 'Clickbank' people I've never heard of?" (And sometimes even saying "... and hadn't heard of but now see online have such a questionable reputation").

        Some vendors would sell more copies without Clickbank's imprimatur on their sales and/or order-page. But they wouldn't get Clickbank's other facilities, of course - the affiliate network, payment processing, and all the other things for which they're paying their 9% transaction charges.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dave Rodman
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          Really? You'd perhaps be surprised how many emails I routinely get from people on my lists saying "Please can I buy this from you directly, instead of through these 'Clickbank' people I've never heard of?" (And sometimes even saying "... and hadn't heard of but now see online have such a questionable reputation").

          Some vendors would sell more copies without Clickbank's imprimatur on their sales and/or order-page. But they wouldn't get Clickbank's other facilities, of course - the affiliate network, payment processing, and all the other things for which they're paying their 9% transaction charges.
          You're right. It makes total sense that people would ask to buy from an individual they don't know over a large well-known company. I'm sure that happens all the time. :rolleyes:

          If you don't Clickbank's policies, then just leave them. If you feel you're getting less by participating in Clickbank's network, then you should leave.
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          • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
            Originally Posted by Dave Rodman View Post

            You're right. It makes total sense that people would ask to buy from an individual they don't know over a large well-known company. I'm sure that happens all the time. :rolleyes:

            If you don't Clickbank's policies, then just leave them. If you feel you're getting less by participating in Clickbank's network, then you should leave.
            Dave,

            Do you honestly think the average potential customer (outside of the IM / make money online niche) has heard of Clickbank - much less know who the heck they are, how big they are, or what they do?

            Think like a customer - not like a marketer.

            And then think about who it is who's been sending them free, valuable content via email on a regular basis for the past X days/weeks/months - gradually building trust and recognition. Hint: it isn't Clickbank.

            It doesn't take a wild stretch of the imagination to understand why some customers would rather send a payment directly to an affiliate/vendor, rather than some company they've never before dealt with, barely/never heard of or from, and know exactly zilch about.
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          • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
            Originally Posted by Dave Rodman View Post

            You're right. It makes total sense that people would ask to buy from an individual they don't know over a large well-known company. I'm sure that happens all the time. :rolleyes:
            Clickbank a major well known processor? bwahahahahahaahaha

            I am willing to hazard a bet that I could walk down the main shopping strip where I live and ask 100 people if they know what Clickbank is and they won't.

            Odds are at least 1 should know right?

            Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author offlinemarketer
    Banned
    How can serial refunding me a form of fraud?

    Has it occured to you that maybe the sales pages are so full of hype and ouright lies that when the buyer gets his or her product they're extremely disappointed and request a refund?

    And then they buy the next product hoping it will be better..and so on?

    The seller is the one commiting fraud, not the one refunding.
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    • Profile picture of the author CTonline09
      Originally Posted by offlinemarketer View Post

      How can serial refunding me a form of fraud?

      Has it occured to you that maybe the sales pages are so full of hype and ouright lies that when the buyer gets his or her product they're extremely disappointed and request a refund?

      And then they buy the next product hoping it will be better..and so on?

      The seller is the one commiting fraud, not the one refunding.
      I have to agree with this there are so many garbage over the top hyped up products on clickbank that have fraud written all over them, so you have to wonder how the hell some of these products even get approved.

      Then again you pay $37 for a system that guarantees riches and expect to do no work, that just sounds like a gullable buyer to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author paulie888
      Originally Posted by offlinemarketer View Post

      How can serial refunding me a form of fraud?

      Has it occured to you that maybe the sales pages are so full of hype and ouright lies that when the buyer gets his or her product they're extremely disappointed and request a refund?

      And then they buy the next product hoping it will be better..and so on?

      The seller is the one commiting fraud, not the one refunding.
      This is probably one of the main reasons why Clickbank maintains such a generous refund policy. While such a refund policy may result in more refunds, it is also typically balanced out by many more buyers who would not have bought had it not been for Clickbank's liberal refund policy.
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      • Profile picture of the author Danny McConnell
        In regard to over-hyped sales letters: I recently purchased a product with a really enticing sales letter and refunded the next day. The kicker was that it was blind sales copy, and the only way to find out what the heck was being sold was to buy the product. If I had known what it was I never would have purchased it.

        I will admit it was not an especially well thought out purchase. I was tired and acting impulsively, but even in that mental state I never would have purchased if there had not been a well publicized "no questions asked" guarantee right above the buy button.

        In that case the return policy had the hoped for result.

        All that said, I am not a serial refunder, but I'm guessing they are a cost of doing business.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dave Rodman
          Banned
          Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

          Dave,

          Do you honestly think the average potential customer (outside of the IM / make money online niche) has heard of Clickbank - much less know who the heck they are, how big they are, or what they do?

          Think like a customer - not like a marketer.

          And then think about who it is who's been sending them free, valuable content via email on a regular basis for the past X days/weeks/months - gradually building trust and recognition. Hint: it isn't Clickbank.

          It doesn't take a wild stretch of the imagination to understand why some customers would rather send a payment directly to an affiliate/vendor, rather than some company they've never before dealt with, barely/never heard of or from, and know exactly zilch about.
          Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

          Clickbank a major well known processor? bwahahahahahaahaha

          I am willing to hazard a bet that I could walk down the main shopping strip where I live and ask 100 people if they know what Clickbank is and they won't.

          Odds are at least 1 should know right?

          Chris

          Both of you go back and read my post. People aren't stupid. They may not have heard of Clickbank, but just a look at the site and the signals are there that you are dealing with a relatively large site.

          But the point wasn't even about Clickbank or how trustworthy it is/isn't. The post was in response to Alexa's claim. Sorry, I find it hard to believe that someone concerned about security would NOT want to buy from Clickbank, but they're ok buying directly from Alexa. And that this happens "routinely"? Seriously?

          That's not a knock on her or her site. But you don't feel comfortable with this site?

          Digital Products Retailer: Affiliate Program & Sell Online - ClickBank

          But you're ok with this site?

          Online Income Simplified
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Dave Rodman View Post

            That's not a knock on her or her site.
            Curious - I'd have thought that actually that's exactly what it is. You listed one of my one-page sites to compare (adversely, as you made clear you see it) with something else. If that isn't a precisely "a knock on my site", what was it? Just entirely randomized unprofessional/insulting behavior purely for its own sake, perhaps?

            As will already be obvious to the others who were openly laughing at your earlier post above, you're completely missing the point: the reason those people would prefer to buy directly from me rather than through an outfit they've never heard of and/or quickly find negative information about is the relationship I've built with them through my autoresponder series, not their impression of a one-page site. :rolleyes:

            Originally Posted by Dave Rodman View Post

            I find it hard to believe that someone concerned about security would NOT want to buy from Clickbank, but they're ok buying directly from Alexa.
            Gee, thanks very much for the compliment. And have a nice day yourself, too.

            One of two things (albeit both pretty difficult to believe?) appears to follow from that "conclusion": either I'm an outright liar or you understand even less about what you're talking about than was immediately apparent.
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            • Profile picture of the author alexanderpoole9
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              Just entirely randomized unprofessional/insulting behavior purely for its own sake, perhaps?

              As will already be obvious to the others who were openly laughing at your earlier post above,
              Is returning one perceived insult with one of your own actually the best way to get your point across?
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          • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
            Originally Posted by Dave Rodman View Post

            Both of you go back and read my post. People aren't stupid. They may not have heard of Clickbank, but just a look at the site and the signals are there that you are dealing with a relatively large site.

            But the point wasn't even about Clickbank or how trustworthy it is/isn't. The post was in response to Alexa's claim. Sorry, I find it hard to believe that someone concerned about security would NOT want to buy from Clickbank, but they're ok buying directly from Alexa. And that this happens "routinely"? Seriously?

            That's not a knock on her or her site. But you don't feel comfortable with this site?

            Digital Products Retailer: Affiliate Program & Sell Online - ClickBank

            But you're ok with this site?

            Online Income Simplified
            Chill out dude

            It's actually true, in niches where Clickbank isn't well known many people do want to buy through PayPal etc directly from the person sending the e-mails whom they feel comfortable with.

            I've experienced this many times.

            Regarding your earlier post about getting more sales with Clickbank because of their guarantee, I've tested PayPal v Clickbank many times and PayPal has always generated more sales regardless of the niche.

            I've tested this about a dozen times, and not once has Clickbank generated more sales.

            I'm not saying selling via PayPal without Clickbank's guarantee will always convert better than Clickbank, the 10 to 15 tests I've done isn't enough evidence.

            Another thing I should add is I provided conditional guarantees when selling through PayPal, if buyers don't get certain results then they are entitled to a refund.

            When testing PayPal + conditional guarantee v Clickbank + 8 week guarantee, the former always came out on top.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dave Rodman
              Banned
              Originally Posted by oneplusone View Post

              Chill out dude

              It's actually true, in niches where Clickbank isn't well known many people do want to buy through PayPal etc directly from the person sending the e-mails whom they feel comfortable with.

              I've experienced this many times.

              Regarding your earlier post about getting more sales with Clickbank because of their guarantee, I've tested PayPal v Clickbank many times and PayPal has always generated more sales regardless of the niche.

              I've tested this about a dozen times, and not once has Clickbank generated more sales.

              I'm not saying selling via PayPal without Clickbank's guarantee will always convert better than Clickbank, the 10 to 15 tests I've done isn't enough evidence.

              Another thing I should add is I provided conditional guarantees when selling through PayPal, if buyers don't get certain results then they are entitled to a refund.

              When testing PayPal + conditional guarantee v Clickbank + 8 week guarantee, the former always came out on top.
              Ah yes. The old "Let's end the argument because I've tested this multiple times" excuse. That IS ALWAYS an old standby.

              My argument really had nothing to do with Alexa's site. It could've been anyone's site. The idea that people uncomfortable with ClickBank would be comfortable with some random person's site is kinda funny. Regardless of whether or not they signed up for an autoresponder series.

              So....Clickbank (with it's Press, Executive Bios, Terms of Service, Blog, & Security Seals) looks a little fly by night. But ABC Site looks ok because the owner sent me a few emails through an autoresponder.

              LOL x infinity
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          • Profile picture of the author alexanderpoole9
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Dave Rodman View Post

            But you don't feel comfortable with this site?

            Digital Products Retailer: Affiliate Program & Sell Online - ClickBank

            But you're ok with this site?

            Online Income Simplified
            Beyond a shadow of a doubt, I'd feel more comfortable purchasing from the former site rather than the latter. For one thing, I can read the terms of service for a potential purchase there.
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            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              Originally Posted by alexanderpoole9 View Post

              Beyond a shadow of a doubt, I'd feel more comfortable purchasing from the former site rather than the latter.
              There isn't a choice, Alexander. One site isn't a site from which one can buy. Dave was not comparing like with like - just trying to make a cheap, irrelevant and critical point at another marketer's expense. :rolleyes:
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              • Profile picture of the author Dave Rodman
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                There isn't a choice, Alexander. One site isn't a site from which one can buy. Dave was not comparing like with like - just trying to make a cheap, irrelevant and critical point at another marketer's expense. :rolleyes:
                Like I said, it has nothing to do with your site. Take ANY site from the warriorforum.com, digitalpoint, etc and put them against Clickbank. Clickbank would win the Trustworthy test to an unsuspecting visitor every time.
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                • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Dave Rodman View Post

                  Like I said, it has nothing to do with your site.
                  That isn't remotely "like you said". In fact you said exactly the opposite of that.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Dave Rodman
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                    That isn't remotely "like you said". In fact you said exactly the opposite of that.
                    Actually, in the post above that I said that it had nothing to do with your site.
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            • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
              Originally Posted by alexanderpoole9 View Post

              For one thing, I can read the terms of service for a potential purchase there.
              Given that she's not selling and taking payments directly through her own site right now, she doesn't need to have published the same policies as what Clickbank and others do, who actually handle the payments, and with whom the the customer engages in the contract of sale.

              This is why Dave was wrong to try comparing Alexa's site with Clickbank's to "prove his point".
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              • Profile picture of the author Dave Rodman
                Banned
                Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

                Given that she's not selling and taking payments directly through her own site right now, she doesn't need to have published the same policies as what Clickbank and others do, who actually handle the payments, and with whom the the customer engages in the contract of sale.

                This is why Dave was wrong to try comparing Alexa's site with Clickbank's to "prove his point".
                No, I wasn't wrong at all. Because if she did (or anyone for that matter) post the page where they accepted payments, I'm quite sure that Clickbank would win the trustworthiness blind test.
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                • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
                  Originally Posted by Dave Rodman View Post

                  No, I wasn't wrong at all. Because if she did (or anyone for that matter) post the page where they accepted payments, I'm quite sure that Clickbank would win the trustworthiness blind test.
                  Really?

                  Since we're obviously now talking completely hypothetically, then, perhaps you could imagine what the outcome would be if Alexa had a site that visually and functionally was identical to Clickbank's .. or at least appealed to you more, visually/functionally, on a personal level.

                  Would Clickbank still glean more immediate trust from potential customers?

                  It doesn't seem like it to me, because the potential customer still has never heard of Clickbank, either way. :p
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                  • Profile picture of the author Dave Rodman
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Caleb Spilchen View Post

                    First of all, the Warrior Forum is A FORUM, and the other site you mentioned,is a FORUM.

                    Clickbank is a marketplace, which connects affiliates, and sellers. It acts as a merchant, and processes payouts etc.

                    Trustworthy test? Actually, I've found that people trust this FORUM, more then clickbank.com products, because they actually get to have a relationship with the SELLER.
                    Really? THe warriorforum is a forum? And the digitalpointforum is a forum too? You're all over the place with your point so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. First you say that you can't compare the two, then you say that WF is trustworthy..moreso than Clickbank. Which is kinda laughable since this very thread is about easy refunds at Clickbank. You might trust the forum as a whole, but do you trust the guy who sells you something via WSO?

                    Anyways, you missed the point. It was about any webmaster (from WF or DP) putting up their best site vs. Clickbank. A blind observer would choose Clickbank.






                    Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

                    Really?

                    Since we're obviously now talking completely hypothetically, then, perhaps you could imagine what the outcome would be if Alexa had a site that visually and functionally was identical to Clickbank's .. or at least appealed to you more, visually/functionally, on a personal level.

                    Would Clickbank still glean more immediate trust from potential customer?

                    It doesn't seem like it to me, because the potential customer still has never heard of Clickbank, either way. :p
                    You're taking this hypothetical pretty far. I'm assuming you want me to say that if someone doesn't know Clickbank from Alexabank, they have the same design, and the same trust signals, then what's the difference who they buy from?

                    And that doesn't work because you're taking everything Clickbank has done and basically saying "Let's call it even". That's like me saying "Ok, let's assume you've never heard of Amazon.com and I make a competing site that looks exactly like them and has all their same stuff (press release, prices, guarantee). Would you buy from me over Amazon?".

                    You kinda just erased all the hard stuff that goes into building trust.
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                    • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
                      Originally Posted by Dave Rodman View Post

                      You're taking this hypothetical pretty far. I'm assuming you want me to say that if someone doesn't know Clickbank from Alexabank, they have the same design, and the same trust signals, then what's the difference who they buy from?

                      And that doesn't work because you're taking everything Clickbank has done and basically saying "Let's call it even". That's like me saying "Ok, let's assume you've never heard of Amazon.com and I make a competing site that looks exactly like them and has all their same stuff (press release, prices, guarantee). Would you buy from me over Amazon?".

                      You kinda just erased all the hard stuff that goes into building trust.
                      Dave,

                      Statistically, a far higher number of online shoppers will have previous experience in dealing with Amazon than they do Clickbank. And many of the ones who haven't will still be aware of them, and likely know several friends/family members who do use them and have good things to say.

                      The problem for Clickbank is that they're not a huge, household brand-name like it could be argued Amazon now is.

                      Do you think Amazon commands the level of trust they do purely from their site design and function, or could it mostly be from years of previous experience in dealing with them, huge popularity among online shoppers in general, and the fact your best friend orders from them at least once a week?

                      Amazon has a lot going for it, in this regard. Clickbank does not. And the design of their site doesn't much make up for that - especially seeing as though most customers are only ever going to see their order-page anyway, which just happens to contain very little information about the company, their size, reputation, and - above all - just what the hell they're involved in the transaction for in the first place.

                      Your whole argument is on the basis of "all the things Clickbank have done", but I'm afraid it's simply flawed because as far as these weary potential customers go, Clickbank haven't (yet) done any of the things that count the most - starting, of course, by actually being already known.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Dave Rodman
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

                        Dave,

                        Statistically, a far higher number of online shoppers will have previous experience in dealing with Amazon than they do Clickbank. And many of the ones who haven't will still be aware of them, and likely know several friends/family members who do use them and have good things to say.

                        The problem for Clickbank is that they're not a huge, household brand-name like it could be argued Amazon now is.

                        Do you think Amazon commands the level of trust they do purely from their site design and function, or could it mostly be from years of previous experience in dealing with them, huge popularity among online shoppers in general, and the fact your best friend orders from them at least once a week?

                        Amazon has a lot going for it, in this regard. Clickbank does not. And the design of their site doesn't much make up for that - especially seeing as though most customers are only ever going to see their order-page anyway, which just happens to contain very little information about the company, their size, reputation, and - above all - just what the hell they're involved in the transaction for in the first place.

                        Your whole argument is on the basis of "all the things Clickbank have done", but I'm afraid it's simply flawed because as far as these weary potential customers go, Clickbank haven't (yet) done any of the things that count the most - starting, of course, by actually being already known.
                        I took my hypothetical to the point where nobody knew who Amazon was. Absurd? Of course. I don't need to know who Clickbank is to know that they are a relatively large company on the internet. Just look at their homepage. They have executive profiles, press pages, links to all their social media profiles where you can see comments, blog, TOS, 800 number, HOURS of operation, my browser says they are a McAfee Trusted site.

                        Barstools.com for example. I don't know much about them. They aren't a household name. But just looking around their site, you can tell they are a larger operation with some history. Security seals, 800 numbers, lots of information, etc.
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            • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
              Originally Posted by alexanderpoole9 View Post

              Beyond a shadow of a doubt, I'd feel more comfortable purchasing from the former site rather than the latter. For one thing, I can read the terms of service for a potential purchase there.
              You're missing the point, it isn't Clickbank's site v Alexa's site

              It's Clickbank's site v Alexa's relationship with her list
              Signature
              'If you hear a voice within you say "you cannot paint," then by all means paint and that voice will be silenced.' Vincent Van Gogh.
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              • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
                Originally Posted by Dave Rodman View Post

                Like I said, it has nothing to do with your site. Take ANY site from the warriorforum.com, digitalpoint, etc and put them against Clickbank. Clickbank would win the Trustworthy test to an unsuspecting visitor every time.
                First of all, the Warrior Forum is A FORUM, and the other site you mentioned,is a FORUM.

                Clickbank is a marketplace, which connects affiliates, and sellers. It acts as a merchant, and processes payouts etc.

                Trustworthy test? Actually, I've found that people trust this FORUM, more then clickbank.com products, because they actually get to have a relationship with the SELLER.

                Originally Posted by oneplusone View Post

                You're missing the point, it isn't Clickbank's site v Alexa's site

                It's Clickbank's site v Alexa's relationship with her list
                If someone whose on my list, went to a clickbank sales page, and purchase process. They would be going in unfamiliar, if I didn't use that platform right now...

                But, if I'm currently e-mailing them, and the payments are going to me, I've already got an established relationship with them.

                Caleb
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                Caleb Spilchen

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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Their policy regarding serial refunders is actually very clearly outlined on their site:

    6. What about customers who try to abuse the return policy?
    Customers requesting serial or repeated returns will be blocked from making further purchases
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    From memory, I have purchased 3 products(Maybe 4) over the last couple of years and refunded every single one of them. Does that make me a serial refunder?

    Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author seoman76
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      From memory, I have purchased 3 products(Maybe 4) over the last couple of years and refunded every single one of them. Does that make me a serial refunder?

      Chris
      No it makes you someone who wants value for his money and clickbank is obviously not offering value with there crappy products. I requested a refund myself as well for a product I thought might be okay but obviously it was not.

      Purchasing 3-4 products and refunding each of them does make you a little naief though I am 99% sure I won't order a clickbank product again, I thought about promoting them but it go's against my moral, while my moral isn't of that high standards btw, so imagine lol
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  • Profile picture of the author penpal6
    I know there are many people who just love to refund the product, and after getting a fun they just share it at various sharing sites (I just don't want to name those)
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  • Profile picture of the author Mawardee(A)
    I have bought dozens of CB products, but request refund for few.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adie
    Clickbank is known only to people like us and I think that comprises as little as 05% of total Internet Users - or even lower.
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    Moderator's Note: You're only allowed to put your own products or sites in your signature.

    Signature edited.
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  • Profile picture of the author dezchamps
    Here's an idea, maybe someone needs to provide an alternative to Clickbank and review every product that is submitted before putting it out for sale. Make the site trusted for having good products.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lemy Yusento
    Yes, i agree that serial refunder must be taken action.

    It's not fair to them who sell their product honestly in clickbank.

    -Lemy
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  • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen

    Anyways, you missed the point. It was about any webmaster (from WF or DP) putting up their best site vs. Clickbank. A blind observer would choose Clickbank
    Your post had expressed two different situations to me, so I now understand sort of what you mean.

    However, again you find yourself wrong. You have just alienated any other marketer, other then clickbank on trustworthiness..... At least, thats what your expressing from my point of view.
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    Caleb Spilchen

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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Rodman
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Caleb Spilchen View Post

      Your post had expressed two different situations to me, so I now understand sort of what you mean.

      However, again you find yourself wrong. You have just alienated any other marketer, other then clickbank on trustworthiness..... At least, thats what your expressing from my point of view.
      I, personally, wouldn't take offense if someone said Clickbank was more trustworthy than my site to a casual observer. I'm not delusional.

      We're talking about a Top 200 Alexa rated sited. I don't really consider it an insult to all marketers to say that their site doesn't appear as trustworthy as Clickbank's.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Dave Rodman View Post

        I, personally, wouldn't take offense if someone said Clickbank was more trustworthy than my site to a casual observer. I'm not delusional.
        Deluded or not, however many times you post, Dave, it won't make your comparison a valid or a relevant one. Why not just acknowledge (to yourself, I mean) that you're in a bit of a hole of your own making here, and stop digging, for heavens' sake? There's really no need to get the thread locked or deleted over it, you know?
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        • Profile picture of the author Dave Rodman
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          Deluded or not, however many times you post, Dave, it won't make your comparison a valid or a relevant one. Why not just acknowledge (to yourself, I mean) that you're in a bit of a hole of your own making here, and stop digging, for heavens' sake? There's really no need to get the thread locked or deleted over it, you know?
          Why would I do that when I'm right? The hypotheticals have really been ratcheted up to try and prove me wrong. "Well, let's just say that Site B has all the same design as clickbank, same history, and same trustworthiness".

          As long as we're going that far, let's just assume that I'm a billionaire and I am on a yacht instead of arguing on a forum.
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Dave Rodman View Post

            Why would I do that when I'm right?
            No reason at all that I can think of, Dave - and if that ever happens, I'll watch with interest to test the theory, anyway.
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