Why Was My Post Deleted?

13 years ago

I have no idea.

But if you read this page...

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...moderator.html

You will see more of the rules. One of which is...

5. If your thread is deleted, do not re-post it. Do not post a thread asking why it was deleted.

All the best,
Michael

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...appearing.html

In your case, it's for the same reason I've deleted a dozen or more threads you've started. And you still don't get it.

Post in the right section. Questions regarding where you rank in a search engine, or how you get/keep/improve rankings, do not belong in main discussion.

Next time you post anything about SEO in this section of the forum you get some time off. Maybe that will make the lesson stick.

Paul

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kevinw1

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...appearing.html

In your case, it's for the same reason I've deleted a dozen or more threads you've started. And you still don't get it.

I wonder about this. We have something going on here which to me doesn't add up:

1. People posting in the wrong forums
2. Deleting the posts that have been posted in the wrong place
3. No reason given for deletion

To me, there is a disconnect between not giving a reason (and yes, I get the reason for not giving a reason

) and expecting someone's behaviour to change. Basic parenting and animal training theory: the consequence has to be directly connected with the behaviour you want to change, otherwise your target will not know what behaviour they are supposed to be changing.

In this case, if the person does not know their posts are being deleted because they are in the wrong place, they won't be able to change the behaviour. Now obviously the OP has been told, but there are dozens of others posting in the wrong place who may not even realise that this is why their posts are getting deleted.

How can they not, you may ask, given Paul's recent posts and threads on this subject? Well, this is a busy forum. No-one reads everything. No-one even *sees* everything unless they visit multiple times a day.

Kevin

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Joshua Rigley

Banned 13 years ago

I think the real question is; why isn't THIS thread deleted?

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Joshua,

I think the real question is; why isn't THIS thread deleted?

Because I chose to use it as an educational opportunity.

Paul

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Joshua Rigley

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Joshua,Because I chose to use it as an educational opportunity.

Paul

That'd be nice. But I wonder if it will educate anyone once it is inevitably locked and drops off the first page?

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Paul Myers 13 years ago

Joshua,

That'd be nice. But I wonder if it will educate anyone once it is inevitably locked and drops off the first page?

Do links to a thread stop working when it drops off the front page?

Paul
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- Joshua Rigley Banned 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  Joshua,Do links to a thread stop working when it drops off the front page?
  
  Paul
  
  Of course not. There's no need to insult my intelligence. But when the thread linking to it drops off the the front page, who sees the link?
  
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Ken Strong

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Joshua Rigley

That'd be nice. But I wonder if it will educate anyone once it is inevitably locked and drops off the first page?

Sometimes even high-quality threads have to be locked eventually. If one person is allowed to keep bumping their thread back to the first page for months at a time, then everyone has to be allowed to do it. It wouldn't take that long for the front page to be dominated by old threads.

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Joshua Rigley

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken Strong

Sometimes even high-quality threads have to be locked eventually. If one person is allowed to keep bumping their thread back to the first page for months at a time, then everyone has to be allowed to do it. It wouldn't take that long for the front page to be dominated by old threads.

Which is really a pity, because then it makes it impossible for the OP to update the thread, which effectively renders it useless if it depends on being update regularly.

And what constitutes to someone who "keeps bumping their thread to the first page?". I could understand if they were bumping it on a daily basis without adding any content, but what about the occasional witty comment or acknowledgement of thanks received?

I'm not questioning the mods decision or right to lock any thread at their sole discretion, but I'd sure appreciate a bit more knowledge into the reasoning so I know what to avoid in the future if one of my threads get locked.

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lgibbon Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Joshua,Because I chose to use it as an educational opportunity.

Paul

It doesn't seem to be working very well Paul.
There have been quite a few of the "why was my thread deleted" posts
that were turned into "educational" threads.

The only thing they seem to have learned, is that they get
a whole lot of attention by starting one.
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Kay King 13 years ago

One of my pet peeves online is that every time I see a software or program I use announce "we've upgraded to make this easier"....I cringe...

...because the end result 99% of the time is what I did with one click in the original version now requires 2-3 clicks for the same result. Wow - ain't that a great update?

You could put "read the damned rules" in 36 pt red fonts on every page during a new members first 30 days....and the person reading it would think you are talking to someone else.

kay
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smartdoctor 13 years ago

Paul,
I totally agree with you. When I was new here I kept repeating the mistake until I read the rules and Understood am happy to contribute in all sections and stick to the rules of each section. My opinion is : There is no smooth business if there are no rules. Even In our homes we have unwritten rules
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newmovies

Banned 13 years ago

Mine also got deleted my posts many times.

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

I warned him. And yet, he did it again.

We have to find out who's selling the clue-resistant headwear and ask them to be more selective about their clientele.

Paul

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Will Edwards

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

I warned him. And yet, he did it again.

We have to find out who's selling the clue-resistant headwear and ask them to be more selective about their clientele.

Paul

Made me laugh

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Joe118

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

I warned him. And yet, he did it again.

We have to find out who's selling the clue-resistant headwear and ask them to be more selective about their clientele.

Paul

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Droopy Dawg

13 years ago

I lol'd for real!

I've done it (post in the wrong section) as well, but I don't repost it when I come back and see that its been deleted/moved... that's just crazy.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

I warned him. And yet, he did it again.

We have to find out who's selling the clue-resistant headwear and ask them to be more selective about their clientele.

Paul

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Brett,

kidding...just trying to bring some levity to the thread

Nice.

What we're seeing between Mr Oksa and myself is what happens whenever you explain the rules to someone who doesn't agree with them, or thinks they should be handled a different way. Imagine how much more someone will argue who isn't a contributing member of the group, and who has some personal stake in changing things.

Mr Oksa is taking the linear view of things. Perfectly reasonable, for what it does. It just misses things. Like the 3rd and 4th of the two different groups he thinks we're talking about.

Paul

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Michael Oksa

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Brett,Nice.

What we're seeing between Mr Oksa and myself is what happens whenever you explain the rules to someone who doesn't agree with them, or thinks they should be handled a different way. Imagine how much more someone will argue who isn't a contributing member of the group, and who has some personal stake in changing things.

Mr Oksa is taking the linear view of things. Perfectly reasonable, for what it does. It just misses things. Like the 3rd and 4th of the two different groups he thinks we're talking about.

Paul

LOL

"...for what it does." Read: Mike is wrong here.

Anyway, I'm not sure what you mean by "Like the 3rd and 4th of the two different groups he thinks we're talking about." Could you enlighten me please?

All the best,
Michael

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Floyd Fisher 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

We have to find out who's selling the clue-resistant headwear and ask them to be more selective about their clientele.

Here's your vendor:

Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie

Go get 'em.
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nerrutis

13 years ago

Originally Posted by redstanford

seriously, my post had nothing whats-so-ever related to banned material. i was asking why my site keeps falling off the grid and it was deleted only after 1 response.

what gives?

Many of my posts were also deleted, about 20 of them!
An many of them were really quality, and in a right place, i think moderators simply dont care about it they just take a bunch of your posts and erase them, if you get reported by someone, and thats it. To many users for moderators to deal with , reading which post is right which is wrong.

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Paul Myers 13 years ago

Originally Posted by nerrutis

Many of my posts were also deleted, about 20 of them! An many of them were really quality

How much "quality" do you think you can fit into a single line of largely irrelevant commentary?

If you're going to run through the board, piling up post count by adding one-liner after one-liner, you can expect that your posts will start to be deleted en masse. That's nothing new.

Paul
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Will Edwards

13 years ago

Originally Posted by nerrutis

Many of my posts were also deleted, about 20 of them!
An many of them were really quality, and in a right place, i think moderators simply dont care about it they just take a bunch of your posts and erase them, if you get reported by someone, and thats it. To many users for moderators to deal with , reading which post is right which is wrong.

Hey friend - you are just wrong.

The Mods do a great job here. You may not be able to see the reason for what they have done, but I can assure you, there is a reason.

In some forums, you can get banned for doing things that just get your thread deleted here, so let's be thankful for the Mods and the good all round job they do here.

Will

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Adie

13 years ago

I just got my post/thread deleted. Although I know there's nothing wrong, I'll let it go....and move on.... I think my thread was okay - only the response was not....

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Paul Myers 13 years ago

For the benefit of the person who is almost certain to raise a stink soon...

When you run through the forum, posting general questions and extremely specific tech support questions, one right after another, none of which are likely to generate useful discussion...

They'll get deleted.

This section is not intended to provide tech support for some random video game.

Paul
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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Adie,

That post belonged in offtopic. The problem there is that you'll also get the political commentary, because so many of the folks there can't resist breaking the Prime Directive for that section: No religion or politics.

Leave out the name of the site, and you might find it lasts longer, but not in this section of the board.

Paul

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bretski

13 years ago

The first rule of Fight Club is you don't talk about Fight Club... I mean, you don't ask why your post was deleted, right?

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Brett,

The first rule of Fight Club

Ooooooo.....

There's an idea. Create a vBulletin plug-in that lets you isolate people in a specific usergroup. Make sure they can only see each other's posts. Have it look like they're posting where they wanted, but it's all off in some extra section that only they can see or post to.

Let them spam and annoy each other to death.

Paul

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bretski 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Let them spam and annoy each other to death.

Paul

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

"good post i learn much from it"

"You made certain fine points there."

"I did a search on the subject matter and found a good number of folks will have the same opinion "
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John Taylor

13 years ago

Paul,

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

There's an idea. Create a vBulletin plug-in that lets you isolate people in a specific usergroup. Make sure they can only see each other's posts. Have it look like they're posting where they wanted, but it's all off in some extra section that only they can see or post to.

Let them spam and annoy each other to death.

I wish we still had the buy a beer button... I for
one would buy a beer to sponsor the development
of that vBulletin plugin! ;-)

John

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Capitalist_Pig

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Brett,Ooooooo.....

There's an idea. Create a vBulletin plug-in that lets you isolate people in a specific usergroup. Make sure they can only see each other's posts. Have it look like they're posting where they wanted, but it's all off in some extra section that only they can see or post to.

Let them spam and annoy each other to death.

Paul

I'm using SMF on one of my forums, and there is a plugin that makes it so users can post, and everything looks like normal, but no one else can see their posts. They eventually wonder why no one is responding to them and just wander off.

It's deliciously evil.

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Cap,

There's one like that for vBulletin, too. The problem is the way it's implemented. It might only work when done that way, but it slows things down - a lot, if only for a while - when you put someone in it for a group as big as this.

As I understand it, it changes the record for every single member of the group.

Paul

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Joshua,

Ken just gave you the answer. They accumulate and clog up the front end of the forum. That's a judgment call, but some things should be obvious. Like, "Don't start never-ending threads." "Don't bring threads back to the front page from the depths of 2010 without some significant and timely addition that can't be placed in a new thread." Stuff like that.

Paul

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Paul Myers 13 years ago

Joshua,

But like I said, what difference does it make when this thread drops off the front page?

[sigh] Never mind.

Paul
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Joshua Rigley

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Joshua,

Ken just gave you the answer. They accumulate and clog up the front end of the forum. That's a judgment call, but some things should be obvious. Like, "Don't start never-ending threads." "Don't bring threads back to the front page from the depths of 2010 without some significant and timely addition that can't be placed in a new thread." Stuff like that.

Paul

I understand that Paul, but that wasn't what I was asking. I guess it's a rhetorical question, because we all know that once a thread is locked, it's doomed to be completely forgotten within a week or so.

I guess I'll keep that in mind next time I try to add something of value to this forum; make sure it's evergreen content that doesn't need to be updated, or just make a one-shot of it by posting about a hot topic.

I guess I keep forgetting how busy forums can be.

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Paul Myers 13 years ago

Joshua,

There is a place here for never-ending threads and "follow me" discussions and continuously growing lists: Your WF blog.

Paul
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- Joshua Rigley Banned 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  Joshua,
  
  There is a place here for never-ending threads and "follow me" discussions and continuously growing lists: Your WF blog.
  
  Paul
  
  Why the heck would I want to put all that time and effort into it if only 5 people ever see it? In my experience, WF blog posts are great for getting indexed in Google, but not so much for actually getting views from WF.
  
  Still, it's nice to know that there is a place for such things. I doubt I will try to create another growing list though.
  
  Thanks for pointing that out.
  
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CDarklock

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

There's an idea. Create a vBulletin plug-in that lets you isolate people in a specific usergroup. Make sure they can only see each other's posts. Have it look like they're posting where they wanted, but it's all off in some extra section that only they can see or post to.

I like it. That way, they still have an audience, but it's only an audience of people like them... this is a great little added twist on my earlier idea where only the poster can see it, and wonder why nobody is reading or replying.

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Eric Lorence

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Brett,Ooooooo.....

There's an idea. Create a vBulletin plug-in that lets you isolate people in a specific usergroup. Make sure they can only see each other's posts. Have it look like they're posting where they wanted, but it's all off in some extra section that only they can see or post to.

Let them spam and annoy each other to death.

Paul

Or a plugin that just searches the title for "why+post+deleted" ...

And deletes them automagically?

Might save you about 20 hours per week ...

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Michael Mayo 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Eric Lorence

Or a plugin that just searches the title for "why+post+deleted" ...

And deletes them automagically?

Might save you about 20 hours per week ...

Eric, Good Idea but I would hate to think what would happen if the plug-in
some how got corrupted!

Have a Great Day!
Michael
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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Brett,

The funny thing is, you could tell them it would happen and they'd still keep doing it. Then when it does, the human spammers will scream bloody murder about the bot spam.

Stroke city, baaaay-bee.

Paul

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Michael Shook

13 years ago

Sometimes, I will answer what seems to be a legit question, only to look farther down the page to see there are 15 of these by the same person.

OK, maybe not 15, but a bunch of them anyway.

I used to feel dumb afer doing that, but then I thought I would rather answer what appears to be a real question for the benefit of someone else who might be honestly looking for just that answer, so I stopped worrying about doing that.

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Michael,

Sometimes it is exactly 15, with some of them spread through other sections of the board. That's what they need to hit to include URLs in a post.

If we see that someone has answered a post with something useful, we'll leave the answer and just lock the thread. We don't always see that, but we don't like to let those answers go to waste.

On the other hand, you may want to avoid answering posts that are in this section but belong elsewhere. I've become rather ruthless about deleting them, so as to discourage everyone involved. If you have an answer for them, suggest they move the question themselves and offer to help them out when it's unlikely to be deleted.

Paul

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Michael Shook

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Michael,

Sometimes it is exactly 15, with some of them spread through other sections of the board. That's what they need to hit to include URLs in a post.

If we see that someone has answered a post with something useful, we'll leave the answer and just lock the thread. We don't always see that, but we don't like to let those answers go to waste.

On the other hand, you may want to avoid answering posts that are in this section but belong elsewhere. I've become rather ruthless about deleting them, so as to discourage everyone involved. If you have an answer for them, suggest they move the question themselves and offer to help them out when it's unlikely to be deleted.

Paul

I am getting a little better at figuring out where they go when I answer something, sometimes it seems to be a tossup, whether a post will stay or go somewhere else. But I am trying to get a handle on this to be better at it.

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Craig McPherson

13 years ago

One thing I admire about you Paul is that there are no grey (gray for the US folk) areas with you.

Thumbs up

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bretski 13 years ago

I am sure that the thrill and the adrenaline rush of nuking a spammer's posts or banishing a troll to Never-Neverland is gone though.
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Michael Oksa

13 years ago

So...why not just start giving temp bans as soon as people make threads like this? The rule is clear. And maybe that would be a good start.

That being said...

I don't blame new people for not knowing all of the rules. Why? Because a lot of them are in the "Being A Better Member Moderator" thread. A new person has NO reason to assume that could contain rules.

So, I offer another suggestion: take the major rules posted in that thread and ADD them to the "Rules of the Forum" thread.

That way more people are likely to see it (I know a lot still will never read them, but I bet MORE will), and then there is NO excuse for not knowing the rules. And, yes, I believe having some of the rules in a thread about being a moderator is a valid excuse; at least when I put myself in the shoes of a person new to the forum, or forums in general.

All the best,
Michael

p.s. @Craig - Even though I'm from the US, I prefer the spellings of 'grey' and 'doughnut' over 'gray' and 'donut'.

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Craig,

One thing I admire about you Paul is that there are no grey (gray for the US folk) areas with you.

Thank you, but sure there are. I'm pretty good at knowing the difference, though.

For instance, this isn't "black/white/grey" stuff. It's just policy and enforcement. I've been moving toward this for weeks, and giving people time to see that it's coming. So far, I think this is only the first or second time someone's gotten a ban for it. Seemed like the obvious response, all things considered.

Brett,

I am sure that the thrill and the adrenaline rush of nuking a spammer's posts or banishing a troll to Never-Neverland is gone though.

That's never been a thrill. Or even very satisfying. Every time, the thought is the same: When are people going to grow up?

The answer is obvious. They won't all ever grow up.

John,

I'll bet we could get a lot of people to contribute to the development of that plug-in. And then have the forum sell it to other VB users, so they could join in the fun.

Michael,

If they don't read all the stickies, they shouldn't be posting.

Your point is valid, certainly. I just have the very old school notion that when you join a community, you make the effort to know the rules and mores of that community.

Paul

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Paul Myers 13 years ago

Kevin,

Yep. That's true. And that's why I haven't been banning anyone for it, barring one or two cases where people had been explicitly warned. It's not like we've pulled out mighty Mjolnir and hammered every new person who goofed.

Paul
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Michael Oksa

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Michael,

If they don't read all the stickies, they shouldn't be posting.

Your point is valid, certainly. I just have the very old school notion that when you join a community, you make the effort to know the rules and mores of that community.

Paul

I agree with the part about knowing the rules. Not necessarily about reading all of the stickies. But, what harm would there be in copying the rules you so eloquently laid out in the "Be a better member moderator" thread and adding them to the "Forum Rules"...where more people would EXPECT to find the rules.

I think it's a fair assumption that a lot of people WILL read a "Rules" thread before posting, then come back and read other stickies later. I see nothing wrong with that.

But, if you have rules listed in what appears to be a thread about moderation, then I do not think it's entirely fair to assume people should know THOSE rules. However, ignorance of the rules is no excuse, so any rule breaking should be dealt with accordingly.

Again, how hard would it be to copy the rules in the moderation thread (remember, somebody new to forums may have no idea what that even means and may assume it's safe to skip such a thread), and place them in a thread titled "Forum Rules".

I'm sure you can see the merits of placing all of the written forum rules in one thread; why not one labeled as such?

All the best,
Michael

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DrLegend

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

I don't blame new people for not knowing all of the rules. Why? Because a lot of them are in the "Being A Better Member Moderator" thread. A new person has NO reason to assume that could contain rules.

So, I offer another suggestion: take the major rules posted in that thread and ADD them to the "Rules of the Forum" thread.

This is correct. I read the forum rules TWO times and there was nothing I could get from there that gave me the reason why my post got deleted. I think this is a good suggestion. Or at least refer to the otehr thread in the rules thread.

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Michael Oksa

13 years ago

Originally Posted by DrLegend

This is correct. I read the forum rules TWO times and there was nothing I could get from there that gave me the reason why my post got deleted. I think this is a good suggestion. Or at least refer to the otehr thread in the rules thread.

That would work, too.

A simple sentence that said "Read more of the rules here", along with a link. Seems it would solve at least a few problems.

All the best,
Michael

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R Hagel

13 years ago

Wanna know my favorite kind of spammer?

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R Hagel

13 years ago

The ones who start a new post for every sentence.

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GarrieWilson

13 years ago

Wouldn't forum life be much easier if the new people only had access to one section, say a newbie section and then graduated to the others? Or atleast not let them start posts w/out moderation?

Most of the big forums do something along those lines.

-g

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Michael Oksa

13 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Wouldn't forum life be much easier if the new people only had access to one section, say a newbie section and then graduated to the others? Or atleast not let them start posts w/out moderation?

Most of the big forums do something along those lines.

-g

Garrie,

I started a thread many moons ago about this ide. I thought it was a good one, but the arguments against it were pretty strong. So, while I still think the idea has plenty of merit, I also have a hunch it just ain't gonna happen.

All the best,
Michael

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ChrisGreen

13 years ago

I'm a newbie. I may not know everything how Warrior Forum works, but I didn't think there was anything wrong with my post either.

My question was whether Google Bomb 2.0 strategies still apply today since Google has changed so much in 2 1/2 years. I didn't want to go through those videos and waste my time if the strategies didn't apply today. That's all I need to know. I'll get to know the Warrior Forum better though.

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Michael Mayo

13 years ago

Paul, I'll almost bet that there is a VB mod that would redirect new members to the rules
before entering other sections of the forum. Heck, it could be modified so that they had to
click a check box next to each rule before they get access to any other forums...

Have a Great Day!
Michael

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Chris,

The only thing wrong with your post was the location. That could have gone in SEO or product reviews. Most likely place to get a useful answer for a product that old on that subject is the SEO section.

Paul

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Michael,

Maybe. If there is, they'd just keep checking boxes until they got past the things unread.

Come on, dude. The guy who started this thread was told, in no uncertain terms, not to repeat the behavior. He did it again within an hour or so. That's not even surprising. Given that this is the norm, what would make any of us expect that making people check boxes would get them to actually read the rules?

Paul

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Michael Mayo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Michael,

Maybe. If there is, they'd just keep checking boxes until they got past the things unread.

Agreed although when they get Banned for breaking the rules they would have no excuse because they confirmed that they had read them prior.

Come on, dude. The guy who started this thread was told, in no uncertain terms, not to repeat the behavior. He did it again within an hour or so. That's not even surprising. Given that this is the norm, what would make any of us expect that making people check boxes would get them to actually read the rules?

I wasn't questing your decision. I was actually agreeing with you.

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Michael

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bretski 13 years ago

Maybe one way to look at it would be to think of what would happen if you got in the wrong line at the DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles for EU members)? There would be no argument. There would be no explaination. There would be no "I'm sorry". There would be no making a scene because there would be armed officers waiting to taze, pepper spray, shackle, beat or shoot your azz! You would be told that you were in the wrong line.

Asking a mod to move your thread or somehow making it the responsibility of the owner of the forum to educate the members on how a forum works just isn't their responsibity. No more than it is their responsibility to correct the spelling on thread titles when they are misspelled. That drives me NUTS, by the way!
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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Here's a simpler thought: Maybe we should make it a rule that you read all the stickies in any section before posting in it.

Paul

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Michael Oksa

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Here's a simpler thought: Maybe we should make it a rule that you read all the stickies in any section before posting in it.

Paul

Come on, Paul. How is that simpler than putting all the rules in one place? You want somebody to read 147 posts vs. 2?

Besides, is it really necessary to have everybody read "Warrior Forum Videos" and all of the "All In One" threads in the main section? Or all of the stickies in the WSO section, for example?

Still, I don't see what the problem with the suggestion is. It seems like it would easy to do, and quite logical, and could save a bit of unnecessary hassle.

All the best,
Michael

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Roaddog 13 years ago

How about a one week or couple of days part of the forum where you have to read and acknowledge reading all the rules. Before you get out.

Like the military does, before you get to go 'interact' (lol) with your fellow man.

Sometimes you just need to have tiger blood..man

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Michael,

It wouldn't be hard to specify the stickies for them to read. The real question I have is: Why should we try to make things simpler than can possibly be expected to work?

I've already been working on another way to handle this. I just love watching people trying to solve the problem of lazy members by making more work for Allen and the moderators.

Note: The problem here isn't that people don't/can't understand the rules. Most of this stuff should be blindingly obvious to anyone with 3 working synapses and 3 months social experience beyond high school. The problem is that too many people are too damned lazy to bother paying attention.

I am not their parent, and they are not my pets. My function is to educate, not to train adult human beings as though they were dogs, expected to do tricks when I snap my fingers.

Even if that kind of thing were effective and appropriate, which it clearly isn't, it wouldn't do them any good at all outside this forum. Would it?

I want people to think for themselves.

Paul

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Michael Oksa

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Michael,

It wouldn't be hard to specify the stickies for them to read. The real question I have is: Why should we try to make things simpler than can possibly be expected to work?

I've already been working on another way to handle this. I just love watching people trying to solve the problem of lazy members by making more work for Allen and the moderators.

Note: The problem here isn't that people don't/can't understand the rules. Most of this stuff should be blindingly obvious to anyone with 3 working synapses and 3 months social experience beyond high school. The problem is that too many people are too damned lazy to bother paying attention.

I am not their parent, and they are not my pets. My function is to educate, not to train adult human beings as though they were dogs, expected to do tricks when I snap my fingers.

Even if that kind of thing were effective and appropriate, which it clearly isn't, it wouldn't do them any good at all outside this forum. Would it?

I want people to think for themselves.

Paul

So, putting all of the rules in one place is too much work? LOL

Maybe it would take all of two minutes, but could save hours and hours down the road.

Of course, I don't see what goes on behind the scenes, but for the life of me, I can't see why you're fighting this simple idea so hard.

The rules would still stay in the moderator thread, but being RULES they would be right at home in the Rules thread too.

How doesn't that make sense?

If I were new and wanted to know the rules, I wouldn't go to a thread that appears to be about moderating. Sure, you want people to think for themselves, but they aren't stupid for not knowing there might be rules in a thread that isn't labeled as such.

And, yes, some people are too lazy, BUT there are also people who really want to know the rules, and have read the Rules thread, BUT have no idea about the Moderator thread.

Seriously, take two minutes to cut and paste the rules into the Rules thread. Anybody with 3 working synapses could see how this quick investment of time could pay off.

All the best,
Michael

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Mr Oksa,

Seriously, take two minutes to cut and paste the rules into the Rules thread. Anybody with 3 working synapses could see how this quick investment of time could pay off.

I know exactly why I'm doing what I'm doing. What I am doing will take much more than 2 minutes of copying and pasting, and will yield a much longer-term answer to the problem.

For the near-term, there are very useful reasons for leaving some things in the "Being a better member moderator" thread, but you have convinced yourself that your reasons are better than ours. That's your choice. You know the role so much better than we do, after all.

No, you don't know why I am replying to you the way I am. That's a fair comment. Still, smilies or no, I am quite done arguing with someone whose mind is made up.

Paul

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Michael Oksa

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Mr Oksa,I know exactly why I'm doing what I'm doing. What I am doing will take much more than 2 minutes of copying and pasting, and will yield a much longer-term answer to the problem.

For the near-term, there are very useful reasons for leaving some things in the "Being a better member moderator" thread, but you have convinced yourself that your reasons are better than ours. That's your choice. You know the role so much better than we do, after all.

No, you don't know why I am replying to you the way I am. That's a fair comment. Still, smilies or no, I am quite done arguing with someone whose mind is made up.

Paul

My mind isn't made up. And you're not a psychic.

Anyway, I just don't see why combining all of the rules in one place is a bad idea.

I didn't say anything should be REMOVED from the Moderator thread, just that some of it would be right at home in the RULES thread TOO. Too. As in ALSO. Not exclusive.

Part of the problem here is that I think we're referring to two different types of new people. I'm talking about those who read the Rules thread, and care about the rules, but don't think of themselves as moderators yet (again, why should they if they're new?).

One gentleman has already said that's exactly what happened to him, and I'm sure he's not alone.

As far as the "2 minutes": I'm only saying it would take less than 2 minutes to copy and paste (not cut and paste) some of the rules into the Rules thread. I have no idea what you're cooking up, and I wasn't refering to whatever it is.

All of that being said, as I said earlier, those who break the rules should still be dealt with accordingly. Regardless of where the rules are or aren't posted. Also, I hope the solution you're working on really does yield long-term results, I really do.

Finally, your last comment tells me that I'm more right than I thought.

All the best,
Michael

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bretski 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

As far as the "2 minutes": I'm only saying it would take less than 2 minutes to copy and paste (not cut and paste) some of the rules into the Rules thread.

Wouldn't that invoke Google horrible "duplicate content penalty" and sandbox the WF???!!!! (kidding...just trying to bring some levity to the thread)
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Bill Farnham 13 years ago

Hi Paul,

It looks like you're pretty busy today, so I'm just stopping by to say keep up the good work...

Ya, I know...I'll consider myself told...

On a serious note...For those of you complaining about their posts getting deleted, understand that ALL of us here with post counts in the thousands have also had hundreds and hundreds of posts deleted.

If you are just starting out here and can't get past the fact that a few of your posts have been shown the door, wait for it... it's going to become an ordinary experince for you here.

That's right, occasionally, your over the top super insightful posts are going to be placed in threads that for one reason or another don't make the cut.

It happens.

Get over it.

If the only reason you are here is to pile up posts then do yourself a favor and find somewhere else to hang out. One of the main reasons this place rocks the way it does is because of one overriding factor...

We have the best house cleaning crew in the business here.

And most of us wouldn't have it any other way.

~Bill
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- bretski 13 years ago
  
  Sorry, I think that everything is fine the way that it is. You can't teach common sense. Most forums also suggest that you look around first before posting or doing a search before posting about something that has been asked 100 times before. To me, that is just common sense.
  
  I did like the dog training analogy although there are dogs out there that are stubborn and refuse to be trained. (I had terriers for years)
  
  There are also many different forms of training and the pleasure vs pain method is the most effective and speedy. It is used in training guard dogs and hunting dogs. A hunting dog goes and runs off or starts chasing deer you fit him or her with an electronic training collar and "light 'em up".
  
  If you have pointed out once or twice to the dog that they needed to come when called (or not post in the wrong forum, spam the forum etc...) they will come around. At least they should unless they are stubborn and refuse to learn.
  
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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Bill,

Ya, I know...I'll consider myself told...

See, folks? Bill has been paying attention!

Paul

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Joshua,

I wasn't being insulting. I was giving you a hint. Look at the second and third posts in this thread.

Paul

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myob 13 years ago

Well, the way I see it, having posts deleted or locked is not really much different than being kicked out of a bar. Whenever I get kicked out of bars, asking "why?" just seems only to stir up rounds of laughter.
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Joshua Rigley Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Joshua,

I wasn't being insulting. I was giving you a hint. Look at the second and third posts in this thread.

Paul

Saw them. I actually made a thread linking to the very same thread you linked to. I was striving to create another reminder thread, but maybe I was too snarky about it, because it was deleted.

But like I said, what difference does it make when this thread drops off the front page? A couple of people may learn, but after that, it may as well not be there at all for all the people who actually see it (once it's off the grid that is).
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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Joshua,

Look at WarriorForum - Internet Marketing Forums - Paul Myers and check the views on "Stupid Forum Tricks." It's a lot more than 5 people. Even recent stuff that I've never mentioned to anyone has more views than that.

The number of eyeballs something will get if it's on the main forum's front page is the reason for all sorts of things that are done. Many of them are not helpful to the group as a whole. And that's our standard when making those decisions.

Paul

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Joshua Rigley

Banned 13 years ago

Well, you're Paul Myers. I'm not. And that blog post was made nearly two and a half years ago. When you do the math, that amounts to only about 6 views per day.

Compare that with the hundreds of daily views some threads here get, and it's a wonder why anyone bothers with the blogs at all.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Joshua,

Look at WarriorForum - Internet Marketing Forums - Paul Myers and check the views on "Stupid Forum Tricks." It's a lot more than 5 people. Even recent stuff that I've never mentioned to anyone has more views than that.

The number of eyeballs something will get if it's on the main forum's front page is the reason for all sorts of things that are done. Many of them are not helpful to the group as a whole. And that's our standard when making those decisions.

Paul

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Joshua,

Compare that with the hundreds of daily views some threads here get, and it's a wonder why anyone bothers with the blogs at all.

There will have been very few people who went to that thing twice. A thread like this, with 642 views, has probably only actually been looked at by 60 or so people.

Yes. Really.

I'll bet you between 50 and 60 times as many people read that blog entry as have read even one post in this thread. And I'll bet it would have gotten the same number of views, maybe more, from some other members of this group.

If you want to think in terms of quick bursts of traffic, go for it. Or you can think longer term. Your decision, dude.

Paul

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Joshua Rigley

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

If you want to think in terms of quick bursts of traffic, go for it. Or you can think longer term. Your decision, dude.

Paul

I did. I tried to think longer term, but the mods didn't share my vision.

At any rate, if I were to go for the long run in small residual traffic, I'd post in the articles forum, not my blog.

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Joshua,

I did. I tried to think longer term, but the mods didn't share my vision.

That's because we have a different goal.

Paul

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Joshua Rigley

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Joshua,That's because we have a different goal.

Paul

My goal was simply to contribute something of lasting, growing value. Seeing as I have no idea what the goals of the mods are, I guess I'll just have to take your word for it.

I have no problem if a Mod feels a post I made needs to be deleted or locked. That's their choice. I don't like it though, so I guess the only solution is to not make threads that I really care about or invest a great deal of time into.

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Joshua,

My goal was simply to contribute something of lasting, growing value.

And have a way to keep it on the front page, where it would get all that attention.

Seeing as I have no idea what the goals of the mods are, I guess I'll just have to take your word for it.

[sigh] I say it, he ignores it. I already told you, on this page of this thread, I believe, what the goals of the moderators are. The good of the membership as a whole.

Between the 6 of us who handle anything in this section we've only got 60+ years of experience in this forum. I suspect we may have accumulated a small smattering of Clue over that time.

I have no problem if a Mod feels a post I made needs to be deleted or locked. That's their choice. I don't like it though, so I guess the only solution is to not make threads that I really care about or invest a great deal of time into.

[splorf]

The pity card? Really?!?

Come back and read that comment in a week, Joshua.

Paul

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Ken Strong

13 years ago

This thread is proving the point Paul has made many times -- that when the mods offer explanations for their actions, people argue those decisions persistently.

Even when the arguments are courteous and rational, you get an idea of how much time that would take up when multiplied by the dozens of threads that are nuked every day.

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Michael Oksa

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken Strong

This thread is proving the point Paul has made many times -- that when the mods offer explanations for their actions, people argue those decisions persistently.

Even when the arguments are courteous and rational, you get an idea of how much time that would take up when multiplied by the dozens of threads that are nuked every day.

Yep!

That's why my very first response was to quote the rule about not asking why threads are deleted.

I would also add that it proves some points people make about mods as well. Points that I used to doubt highly.

All the best,
Michael

p.s. I hope YOU don't mind the smilies.

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Robert Puddy

13 years ago

i dont see the problem i dont post much but i read the forum every day, yet over the last 3 or 4 months there have been plenty of threads and post mentioning (not to mention clues with thread moved signs every where)

That posting in the wrong foum is a no no...Just need to pay a little attention to get the message

Its there for everyone to see...Time to take it to the next level deletions and bans

Pretty simple really doesnt need explanations

PS: there are 4 moved threads on the first page at the time of typing this. Doesnt take many brain cells to work this out me thinks...no need to check the rules just pay attention

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Joshua Rigley

Banned 13 years ago

Paul, now you are being unkind. I was trying to be sincere. I'm not the person I was a couple of years ago.

You've obviously come to some conclusions about my intentions that are not only untrue, but also hurtful as I was really simply trying to be a valuable member to this forum.

I see no point in continuing this discussion, so I'll leave now and let you get on with your lesson.

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Joshua,

I'm not the person I was a couple of years ago.

No, you're not. Razer would have said something to get himself banned for a week or two. You don't even get close to that person any more.

I haven't come to the conclusions you may think. Ask Bob Puddy if there isn't occasionally a longer term purpose to my sometimes uncomfortable commentary.

Paul

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sanssecret

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Joshua,No, you're not. Razer would have said something to get himself banned for a week or two. You don't even get close to that person any more.

I haven't come to the conclusions you may think. Ask Bob Puddy if there isn't occasionally a longer term purpose to my sometimes uncomfortable commentary.

Paul

Ok, I've asked him. But in the meantime, I'm asking you too.

I confess I'm baffled Paul. Not at your 'uncomfortable commentary', (we call it a 'difficult conversation'), seen that lots of times and never had a problem with it. But this thread is obviously a lesson that is going over my head.

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

San,

this thread is obviously a lesson that is going over my head.

The merely obvious lesson isn't, I'd wager. That I'm willing to call people out publicly for this if they overdo it, and ban them for a while if they don't stop posting in the wrong sections after enough time.

The other lesson is so obvious that, of all the people who've posted in this thread, I'd bet only Bob Puddy and Ken Strong get it. Allen would know, if he was reading this. Or Brian and Kenneth. Or Roger (ExRat).

That's all the hint you should need. Or will get.

Paul

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sanssecret

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

San,The merely obvious lesson isn't, I'd wager. That I'm willing to call people out publicly for this if they overdo it, and ban them for a while if they don't stop posting in the wrong sections after enough time.

The other lesson is so obvious that, of all the people who've posted in this thread, I'd bet only Bob Puddy and Ken Strong get it. Allen would know, if he was reading this. Or Brian and Kenneth. Or Roger (ExRat).

That's all the hint you should need. Or will get.

Paul

No, I get the 'obvious'. I'm not that old.

Might just have to go read it all again if Mr Puddy doesn't dish the dirt. :p

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Paul Myers 13 years ago

San,

Might just have to go read it all again if Mr Puddy doesn't dish the dirt.

Bob may not even think of that one, given the way the hint was phrased. I'm betting he'll come up with something else that's "merely obvious."

The best way to make something invisible is to make sure it's always in the center of the table.

Paul
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Carson Hill 13 years ago

Ok. Guess I'm forced to look at this thread n join the club momentarily..

Today was the first day I've ever had a thread deleted.. Since it was the first time it's happened in a years time, I thought maybe I was mistakin or didn't publish it properly..

My thread asked about headers for wordpress. I'm not sure how talking about this is means to delete my post but I'd like to stay in the good graces of warriarforum.

Can anyone tell me what I did wrong??
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Ken Strong

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

The other lesson is so obvious that, of all the people who've posted in this thread, I'd bet only Bob Puddy and Ken Strong get it. Allen would know, if he was reading this. Or Brian and Kenneth. Or Roger (ExRat).

The other lesson -- let's see... ah! "Always keep a good supply of quality Scotch on hand."

Close enough.

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TheAnnoyingOrange

13 years ago

I think it would be a good idea to 'force' people to read and agree to the rules before they can post on any boards.

To stop people just aimlessly hitting the 'I Agree' button, you should have text boxes where they have to type in the answer to each question or re-write the rules.... something that will hopefully make the rules memorable.

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Carson,

It didn't get deleted. Look harder. As in, where it should have been posted in the first place.

Paul

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Carson Hill 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Carson,

It didn't get deleted. Look harder. As in, where it should have been posted in the first place.

Paul

oh I found it. thanks. I'll have to admit I had not realized there was a worpress creation forum. I'll work to improve my categorizing properly.

thanks paul.
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- Paul Myers 13 years ago
  
  Carson,
  
  It's not for WP. It's for web design. And if you make the effort, I'll be quite happy I didn't delete that one.
  
  Paul
  
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  1 reply
  
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  Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.
  
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  mindmarketing 13 years ago
  
  Just want to chime in and apologize for a half dozen or so threads/posts you've had to delete from me Paul.
  
  I did read (scan??) the rules when I joined. Having read this thread I feel I have a better understanding of what is expected.
  
  I'll try harder boss.
  
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  1 reply
  
  Signature
  Mind Marketing
  
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  Tom B Banned 13 years ago
  
  Now I can start building my best of "why this was deleted" thread.
  
  I don't know what category to put it in so I will put it in all categories. I wouldn't want anyone to miss it.
  
  If Paul uses my last name then I know I did something bad. hehe
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
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  Paul Myers 13 years ago
  
  Thomas,
  
  If Paul uses my last name then I know I did something bad. hehe
  
  "Belknap?" That's some sort of adult diaper, isn't it?
  
  Paul
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
  Signature
  
  .
  Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.
  
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  Tom B Banned 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  Thomas,"Belknap?" That's some sort of adult diaper, isn't it?
  
  Paul
  
  It "Depends". Tank ya vary much.
  
  Thanks
  
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Mike Baker

13 years ago

The problem is that the mods are trying to find a cure instead of preventing the problems in the first place.

When you have a visitor to your house, do you let them in the door and and let them find their own way around the house or do you give them a quick tour and show them where the important parts of the house are, the house/family rules, etc?

If you instruct new members on the important parts of the forum before they make a new post, you will find there will be a lot less threads/posts to cure in the long run.

What's wrong with having each new member when they register receive a PM that welcomes them to the forum with links to the rules and other important threads that you think they should read before doing anything else? I know there is a modification for IPB to do this, so I can't see why there wouldn't be one for VB. There's nothing wrong with implementing it and trying it out for a few weeks to see the difference!

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Roaddog

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mikescos

The problem is that the mods are trying to find a cure instead of preventing the problems in the first place.

When you have a visitor to your house, do you let them in the door and and let them find their own way around the house or do you give them a quick tour and show them where the important parts of the house are, the house/family rules, etc?

If you instruct new members on the important parts of the forum before they make a new post, you will find there will be a lot less threads/posts to cure in the long run.

What's wrong with having each new member when they register receive a PM that welcomes them to the forum with links to the rules and other important threads that you think they should read before doing anything else? I know there is a modification for IPB to do this, so I can't see why there wouldn't be one for VB. There's nothing wrong with implementing it and trying it out for a few weeks to see the difference!

I agree, that's why I like my idea of having a 'minuscule'...boot camp, with a restricted area to begin with.

One day? Two days?

Any thing that's really important....in any culture of the world...has a rite of passage.

And as far as tough goes, that's a pinprick...it's the psychology, and always is.

And before it's asked if I would do it, your duuurn right.

You know why? because it simply gives a sense of pride at belonging.

Jim

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paulie888

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Roaddog

I agree, that's why I like my idea of having a 'minuscule'...boot camp, with a restricted area to begin with.

One day? Two days?

Any thing that's really important....in any culture of the world...has a rite of passage.

And as far as tough goes, that's a pinprick...it's the psychology, and always is.

And before it's asked if I would do it, your duuurn right.

You know why? because it simply gives a sense of pride at belonging.

Jim

Jim, this sounds like an idea that might be feasible. It'd help to have some control mechanism like this in place, given the alarming frequency that we see newbies whining and ranting about their posts disappearing. Many seem to have this disconcerting sense of entitlement where they think they can do anything that they please, and either refuse or are too lazy to read some of the more important sticky threads right on top of this forum.

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rosetrees 13 years ago

Booh Hooh. Why was MY post deleted? It was valuable - honest. Paul acted on it, so it must have been.

I want my post back now, else I'll sue you.

(disclaimer - that was all A JOKE)

Sorrrrrrrry - couldn't resist. I'm in a facetious mood this morning.
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Tsnyder

13 years ago

I swear to the internet gods that I have no idea why
all the whining, pissing and moaning takes place when
someone's thread/post gets banned.

I've been around this forum a while... as well as 2 other
forums that I visit on a regular basis. I've NEVER read the
rules at any of them... I've also NEVER had a thread/post
deleted from any of them.

Can anyone say common sense? How about common courtesy?

I don't really think you have to be a rocket surgeon to know
the difference between right and wrong. I think those whose
posts/threads are deleted on a regular basis are people who
have a highly developed sense of entitlement. I'm pretty sure
they BELIEVE my day will not be the same without clicking their
links or reading their spam.

CLUE: This forum was not created to be your free personal marketing vehicle.

Tsnyder

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Alexa Smith Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

I swear to the internet gods that I have no idea why all the whining, pissing and moaning takes place when someone's thread/post gets banned.

The pissing, I think, is usually down to polydipsia, osmotic diuresis and/or other causes of urinary hypersynthesis. The whining and moaning I don't know about, either ... :p

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

Can anyone say common sense? How about common courtesy?

Virtues that are "common" are supposed to be in very widespread supply ... but I'm not sure those two are, really. :confused:
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TheAnnoyingOrange

13 years ago

So.... when do we start the Why was my "why was my post deleted" post deleted thread?

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Tina Golden 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Thomas,"Belknap?" That's some sort of adult diaper, isn't it?

Paul

Paul,

Your thinking of Belknappies.

As to the other topic of the thread, do we really need a rule that says post in the correct forum? Those of you who are saying that should be added to the official sticky that so few read, don't you really think that people should have the common sense to read the list of sections when they join?

That's one of those rules that should be just a minimal amount common sense and two working brain cells. If it was in the rules, I would be willing to bet that it wouldn't do a thing to stem the tide because most of the people who do this don't care. They're entitled to post wherever they want because it's just too hard to go actually read the forum descriptions.
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askmrgramson

13 years ago

I have to admit it takes some getting used to to post in this forum. But I'm learning now. I don't promote in a thread (or mention other "gurus" names too much in an advertisey sorta way).

but at the end of the day Warrior is well worth it.

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Mike Baker

13 years ago

I think something needs to be done soon as I just did a quick search and I found that the question "why was my thread deleted" has been asked more than 6,500 times.

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Paul Myers 13 years ago

Mike,

I think something needs to be done soon as I just did a quick search and I found that the question "why was my thread deleted" has been asked more than 6,500 times.

And 100+ of those are in this thread alone. Doesn't take many of those over a 9 year period to look like a lot more than it is.

This isn't exactly the highest priority item on the agenda. There will always be people who demand things change when they don't go their way. Part of the game.

My only concern at the moment with this issue is making sure the members who want to do things in a way that works and makes sense understand the process we use. The "I'm gonna get what I want or I'll throw a fit and make you sorry" crowd are not high on my list. Even if we were foolish enough to accommodate them, that'd just create a different crowd with different demands.

One of the forgotten corollaries of "You can't please everyone" is "Someone will always be unhappy with you." Just one of life's rough edges.

Paul
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samuelarnold

13 years ago

No matter how many times your posts deleted. you can re-participate the forum. but the main thing is your posts must be relevant.

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Mike Baker

13 years ago

I understand that you and the other moderators have more pressing issues than this, but I feel that if something isn't done about it, the problem is just going to become worse. I hate seeing these threads popping up all the time just as much as the next person.

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Why Was My Post Deleted?

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