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I Don't Think This Is "Newbie" At All !

by srumsley
25 replies
How many of you posting threads and especially WSOs lately are advertising these as being "newbie friendly"? Heaps! But I think you have definitely forgotten what a newbie really is!
Even though I have been at this for about 4 years now, I do remember clearly what is was like to to be unfamiliar with even the IM vocabulary. I believe that in many ways IM has got more complicated since then, not easier.
But when I read WSOs that use phrases like, "just go and ping your website", "load up an email series in your favourite autoresponder", "optimise it for SEO", etc, or give a sweepingly broad instruction with no explanation, and yet they are being promoted as "newbie friendly", I begin to suspect this label is just being used to broaden the potential market.
This is not fair! You are not looking at your WSOs through newbie eyes at all.
Now I'm not suggesting you reinvent the wheel as if your readers have never even registered a domain before, but if you say it's "newbie friendly", you should be making sure it is.
I believe you should only claim your WSO to be "newbie friendly" if it either:
1. Truly explains things clearly as if to a first timer, defining terms, etc, or links to relevant tutorials that do this, etc, or
2. The method is so straightforward, with few steps, that the instructions are foolproof (well, newbie-proof) and impossible to get wrong AND it is realistic that the newbie will at least make SOME money by following your method, within a comparatively short time (otherwise what's the point anyway?)
Now I'm not going to name particular WSOs (though I could), but out of at least 10 "newbie friendly" WSOs I have purchased over the last month or so, only about 3 would genuinely fulfill the above criteria.
Yes, we all have to do some of our own research, but I think we should clamp down a lot harder on the definition of "newbie-friendly", because the newbies aren't going to know that you are assuming too much previous knowledge - they will just think they must be the dumb ones who just don't "get it". And it does put them off big time - you read threads from confused newbies every day.
Now be honest! Who has a method they have called newbie friendly that really DOES pass the above newbie test?
I'm serious! Half of you have not been fair. Or you have genuinely forgotten what "newbie" is. Is there really a "simple" method anymore anyway?
Hmmmm
Sue.
#newbie
  • Profile picture of the author O0o0O
    Great point. One way to know what truly "newbie friendly" means is to go to the Borders bookstore and get a book on Google Adwords. Observe how that book is written and formatted and goes step by step explaining in detail each process. Now that is a book that is professionally done, comprehensive and newbie friendly.
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  • Profile picture of the author peter gibson
    That's a really good point Sue. Thing is, those with even the tiniest amount of experience buy a product and if it's too elementary they complain that the copy contains too much "filler" and not enough content. They whine about authors who waste space explaining what - to them - should seem obvious.

    Kind of a double edge sword I guess, but I think you're right. If someone advertises a Newb friendly WSO, there should at least be some sort of "complete newb" appendix available within the product to reference.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dean Jackson
      Thanks for pointing this out. I definately ensure that if I say that something is "newbie friendly" it damn well is.

      Now... I hope somebody can take this advice and link to tutorials etc. Even basic things like hosting are easy to find on YouTube or the hosts own website.

      Just take a moment to link to it in your product!

      There are also PLR packages out there explaining wordpress, SEO, etc etc. If it's not the main subject of your product, than purchase some PLR and give it away as a bonus for newbies. Win-Win situation.

      At the very least, a high quality affiliate product would work too. Just don't claim it's "newbie friendly" if the user has to go off and purchase some additional learning material (if necessary).

      It's important to be transparent these days as word spreads like wildfire...

      - Dean
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      • Profile picture of the author srumsley
        Yes, that's just it. Those putting up the WSOs should maybe give a kind of scale of experience level needed - maybe even "newbie" is too broad. (They should know, since they have been up the learning curve to the point they are now speaking from.) If you say "raw newbie", you should mean just that.
        Appendices, bonuses and supplementary material might be appropriate sometimes, but I don't think this on it's own would qualify something as now suitable for newbies, if it wasn't before. Know what I mean? Because the vocab, etc, in the main material would be pitched at a certain experience level anyway.
        I'm only asking for fairness. I mean, a while ago there was a thread where a newbie was asking for an easy method he could get quick results from, etc. and all the veterans shot the poor guy down in flames, saying "Who does he think he is, wanting answers handed to him - we all had to gain our own experience... etc..."
        That was so unfair, when so many WSOs are promising newbies "Easy To Rank", "Results in 24hrs", and so on. I mean, come on! Give the guy a break!
        Sue
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  • Profile picture of the author JuliannaW
    I think there is a huge difference in the newbie-friendliness of a WSO when it is either a PDF file or a WSO that includes video instruction.

    I've noticed that the video instruction videos will show how to setup your autoresponder, or how to fully-optimize for SEO much more than the textual instructions given in a PDF-type WSO.

    ...nonetheless, I know exactly what you mean.
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    I don't think you are giving "newbies" enough credit. They do know how to use Google.

    So if they see "go and Ping your website" they simply have to Google "Define: ping"

    The same can be said of how to set up an auto responder and everything else.

    True some WSOs have bigger learning curves, but that can be good for anyone, even a new IMer.

    All, even "Newbies" should know that ANY method or system or "idea" they buy requires WORK, at least some work and some of that work may be researching unfamiliar terms and steps mentioned in the WSO.

    Considering most WSOs fall under the $50 price tag and most of those are in the $20 and less range the price alone makes them Newbie Friendly.

    I once signed up for a college course. Had I completed the course it would have cost me over $60,000. You wouldn't believe the literally hundreds of man hours were required on Google, researching unfamiliar terms and systems. This course was sold to high school grads (newbies?)

    Attention All Newbies: Any WSO can be Newbie Friendly if you are willing to work and some of the work might just be learning new things.

    George Wright
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    • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
      Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

      I don't think you are giving "newbies" enough credit. They do know how to use Google.
      Perhaps, but judging by questions raised in every forum I've ever been a member of, a lot of people don't use search before posting their questions.

      I fully agree with the OP, not only about WSOs, but just about every IM product sales page I've seen.

      It would be great if the sales page included a rating or prerequisites to effectively using the product.

      Naw, that might slow down sales on the next shiny object.

      Marvin
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    • Profile picture of the author Dean Jackson
      Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

      I don't think you are giving "newbies" enough credit. They do know how to use Google.

      So if they see "go and Ping your website" they simply have to Google "Define: ping"

      The same can be said of how to set up an auto responder and everything else.

      True some WSOs have bigger learning curves, but that can be good for anyone, even a new IMer.

      All, even "Newbies" should know that ANY method or system or "idea" they buy requires WORK, at least some work and some of that work may be researching unfamiliar terms and steps mentioned in the WSO.

      Considering most WSOs fall under the $50 price tag and most of those are in the $20 and less range the price alone makes them Newbie Friendly.

      I once signed up for a college course. Had I completed the course it would have cost me over $60,000. You wouldn't believe the literally hundreds of man hours were required on Google, researching unfamiliar terms and systems. This course was sold to high school grads (newbies?)

      Attention All Newbies: Any WSO can be Newbie Friendly if you are willing to work and some of the work might just be learning new things.

      George Wright

      That's an interesting way of looking at it George. Unfortunately, I doubt most people have the dedication to go and search for their own learning materials. In fact, this is where I believe "information overload" starts in the first place.

      A product may tell you WHAT to do for a specific step... yet the "newbie" has no idea HOW to do it. Then comes the Googling... which then turns up tons of different methods, coming across conflicting methods, different products (which all promise to make the "newbie" rich overnight), etc.

      The spiral begins...

      If product owners took a few moments to clearly explain who its for, the skills required, and at what level those skills need to be at - I think we'd have a whole lot less confusion overall.

      Maybe this is a good idea for requirements on posting WSO's???

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      • Profile picture of the author George Wright
        It's OK if we agree to disagree, right?

        I think information overload comes from people buying tons of information products and jumping all over the place trying first one thing and then another. Not from exercising their own brain cells by looking up unfamiliar terms.

        Again, the "Newbies" I know or former newbies I know deserve a little more credit than some of us want to give them.

        IMHO

        George Wright

        Originally Posted by Dean Jackson View Post

        That's an interesting way of looking at it George. Unfortunately, I doubt most people have the dedication to go and search for their own learning materials. In fact, this is where I believe "information overload" starts in the first place.

        A product may tell you WHAT to do for a specific step... yet the "newbie" has no idea HOW to do it. Then comes the Googling... which then turns up tons of different methods, coming across conflicting methods, different products (which all promise to make the "newbie" rich overnight), etc.

        The spiral begins...

        If product owners took a few moments to clearly explain who its for, the skills required, and at what level those skills need to be at - I think we'd have a whole lot less confusion overall.

        Maybe this is a good idea for requirements on posting WSO's???

        - Dean
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    • Profile picture of the author srumsley
      Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

      I don't think you are giving "newbies" enough credit. They do know how to use Google.

      So if they see "go and Ping your website" they simply have to Google "Define: ping"

      The same can be said of how to set up an auto responder and everything else.

      True some WSOs have bigger learning curves, but that can be good for anyone, even a new IMer.

      All, even "Newbies" should know that ANY method or system or "idea" they buy requires WORK, at least some work and some of that work may be researching unfamiliar terms and steps mentioned in the WSO.

      Considering most WSOs fall under the $50 price tag and most of those are in the $20 and less range the price alone makes them Newbie Friendly.

      I once signed up for a college course. Had I completed the course it would have cost me over $60,000. You wouldn't believe the literally hundreds of man hours were required on Google, researching unfamiliar terms and systems. This course was sold to high school grads (newbies?)

      Attention All Newbies: Any WSO can be Newbie Friendly if you are willing to work and some of the work might just be learning new things.

      George Wright
      Yes, George, I agree with you for the case of a motivated newbie, but if you add to the mix the fact that many would just order the next "newbie friendly" WSO that comes along once they hit obstacles in the first one, the cycle can end up continuing until one just gets totally discouraged. I mean, when you are not yet confident about using an autoresponder, but the service is debiting your bank account each month, you feel like cancelling until you gain some more understanding, don't you? And yes the WSOs are often cheap in terms of initial investment, but can be very expensive in terms of time.
      I'm not asking for short cuts, just fairness of description.
      Sue
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
      Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

      I don't think you are giving "newbies" enough credit. They do know how to use Google.

      So if they see "go and Ping your website" they simply have to Google "Define: ping"

      The same can be said of how to set up an auto responder and everything else.

      True some WSOs have bigger learning curves, but that can be good for anyone, even a new IMer.

      All, even "Newbies" should know that ANY method or system or "idea" they buy requires WORK, at least some work and some of that work may be researching unfamiliar terms and steps mentioned in the WSO.

      Considering most WSOs fall under the $50 price tag and most of those are in the $20 and less range the price alone makes them Newbie Friendly.

      I once signed up for a college course. Had I completed the course it would have cost me over $60,000. You wouldn't believe the literally hundreds of man hours were required on Google, researching unfamiliar terms and systems. This course was sold to high school grads (newbies?)

      Attention All Newbies: Any WSO can be Newbie Friendly if you are willing to work and some of the work might just be learning new things.

      George Wright


      I agree with George...Part of the learning should be filling in the gaps with your own research.

      Starting any how to product with a section on how to unpack the computer and turn it on will just mean a boring product.

      PS: WSO sales copy should include this guarantee...

      This product is for no nothing newbies and we offer a 60 day money back guarantee EXCEPT FOR THOSE WHO WANT THEIR MONEY BACK BECAUSE THEY ALREADY NEW WHAT WAS IN IT
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      • Profile picture of the author srumsley
        Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

        I agree with George...Part of the learning should be filling in the gaps with your own research.

        Starting any how to product with a section on how to unpack the computer and turn it on will just mean a boring product.

        PS: WSO sales copy should include this guarantee...

        This product is for no nothing newbies and we offer a 60 day money back guarantee EXCEPT FOR THOSE WHO WANT THEIR MONEY BACK BECAUSE THEY ALREADY NEW WHAT WAS IN IT
        I think people will conduct their own research anyway on a need-to-know basis. And they will learn things as they go on. This they can do for free. But when they pay for a method that says newbie friendly, and are bamboozled by material that is way over their head, then that's not really fair.
        I think this is usually not done intentionally. I think IMers FORGET that newbies don't know what you mean by "then just set up a squeeze page...." Fixing this could be as simple as inserting (If this concept is new to you, here's a great video tutorial (link).
        I've just seen so much of this presumption lately. And obviously some of you guys have too.
        Anyone know of a WSO that they would consider has so few steps that it IS newbie-proof?
        Sue
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
    This is somthing I have been trying to tell a few WSO seller, but they simply don't want to know or listen. Some of them think that because they have been doing this longer than somebody else, especially newbies, that they have a right to create a product anyway they seem fit.

    What this kind of beahavious shows me, is that they are more concerned about making a buck than they are about actually teaching others how to do what they are doing that makes them money.
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  • Profile picture of the author AzzamS
    I am planning my next WSO as a video tutorial and have considered and intend to create folders labelled 'newbie', 'intermediate', 'advanced'.

    An example tutorial will be the registering of the domain and how to change the name server for the host. This will go in the newbie category folder and allows non-newbies to skim this folder/file if they choose to.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
      Originally Posted by AzzamS View Post

      I am planning my next WSO as a video tutorial and have considered and intend to create folders labelled 'newbie', 'intermediate', 'advanced'.

      An example tutorial will be the registering of the domain and how to change the name server for the host. This will go in the newbie category folder and allows non-newbies to skim this folder/file if they choose to.
      That's a fantastic idea and shows you care about your customers.
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    • Profile picture of the author srumsley
      Originally Posted by AzzamS View Post

      I am planning my next WSO as a video tutorial and have considered and intend to create folders labelled 'newbie', 'intermediate', 'advanced'.

      An example tutorial will be the registering of the domain and how to change the name server for the host. This will go in the newbie category folder and allows non-newbies to skim this folder/file if they choose to.
      Great idea! It may not always be necessary to go to these lengths, but at least you are trying to avoid the frustration many of us experience when the "target audience" hasn't been adequately, or realistically, identified in many WSOs.
      Thanks!
      Sue
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  • Profile picture of the author srumsley
    Originally Posted by ncmedia View Post

    Fool me once..

    Ten?

    4years in?

    I suggest you stop buying stuff, not to pick on ya but ^ that is not working. Sometimes simply changing your perspectives and or re-learning the fundamentals again is in order. I'm sure there's some goods in there, dunno I avoid it but ten deals later I think you'd be scattered by now, or a billionaire (my gosh imagine ten wso's in a row actually worked?).
    You have misunderstood me here, but that's understandable (?? :-). No, I am not still a newbie after 4 years: I am saying all this on behalf of newbies, and I have purchased all these WSOs, not because I need newbie-level stuff but because I am deliberately collecting research for some software development which I am designing for newbies (and others).
    But in the process of all this I have been appalled at what gets labelled "newbie friendly", and I just HAD to speak up.
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  • Profile picture of the author 4Frankie
    Hi. A lot of interesting comments.
    I have a question.
    Is 3 months trying Internet Marketing, not knowing a lot of the language, talking on Warrior Forum for 2 weeks and never commented on anything before be considered a NEWBIE?????



    This is how I make money online
    Reviews of Health Products and Clickbank.com
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    • Profile picture of the author srumsley
      Originally Posted by Francie View Post

      Hi. A lot of interesting comments.
      I have a question.
      Is 3 months trying Internet Marketing, not knowing a lot of the language, talking on Warrior Forum for 2 weeks and never commented on anything before be considered a NEWBIE?????



      This is how I make money online
      Reviews of Health Products and Clickbank.com
      Definitely! Hi Francie - you're in the right place to learn a lot in the quickest timeframe - welcome!

      Sue
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  • Profile picture of the author ejb2059
    I understand your point but you can also look at it this way ..If the product, WSO, etc you've purchased is slightly more than a "fire and forget," see it as a challenge and a way to improve your knowledge and skills by being "forced" to teach yourself more than you expected ..

    I'm not a "seasoned" pro by any stretch of anyone's imagination but, I've learned alot through the "trial by fire" method ..

    Never be intimidated & never be afraid to ask for help if you don't know / understand something - I can almost guarantee that someone on WF will have the answers / explanation you need!

    Rev
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    • Profile picture of the author srumsley
      Originally Posted by ejb2059 View Post

      I understand your point but you can also look at it this way ..If the product, WSO, etc you've purchased is slightly more than a "fire and forget," see it as a challenge and a way to improve your knowledge and skills by being "forced" to teach yourself more than you expected ..

      I'm not a "seasoned" pro by any stretch of anyone's imagination but, I've learned alot through the "trial by fire" method ..

      Never be intimidated & never be afraid to ask for help if you don't know / understand something - I can almost guarantee that someone on WF will have the answers / explanation you need!

      Rev
      You're right - and I've never considered any WSO I have bought a total waste of money (even if I have been disappointed sometimes) because there was always something usable in there.
      But I do think it's time that those putting out the WSOs paid a bit more attention towards defining their intended audience, just to be as fair as possible to their customers.
      Sue
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  • Profile picture of the author pavionjsl
    Newbie friendly is in the eyes of the beholder. Video is best, step by step.
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  • Profile picture of the author jonluk
    I'm in the process of putting the final touches to a WSO, and actually started writing a section specifically explaining terms to 'raw newbies' just this very morning.
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  • Profile picture of the author aaronngoh
    I have some experience working with guru to provide after sales support for their clients.

    I have some understanding on the word "newbie"

    Newbies is a perception for someone who want to get into business, but they just too afraid to take action.

    Most of them want to study and have knowledge.

    Also it is used as excuse of why they are not making money because they are newbie

    I really love to see in future that there is a better definition of the market segment for newbie

    May be it can divided into

    1) Never exposed to IM
    2) Buy some products yet to experience it
    3) Buy products and "try" doing it
    4) Have lot of products and not yet making money
    5) Always looking for the next best things to try - Jackpot hunter

    Hope that this help
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  • Profile picture of the author jamesrich1
    There can be a 30 pages on this thread and there still wouldn't be total agreement. Everybody doing internet marketing is at different levels. None of the basic marketers want "How to install a wordpress, ping your website and set up your twitter account." But the newbies are like I have no clue on how to make a website, and what is ping or backlink.

    There should only be products for advanced marketer techniques and all that basic stuff is up to the newbie to go get for free which you can do by opting into lists. I couldn't take Chris Farrell's membership because its made for like first time newbies which made me fast forward through a lot of his technical stuff.

    Seriously there are way to many products, why not just sell the advanced stuff.
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