Clickbank Refund Rates...

33 replies
If you look on cbengine.com and check the clickbank refund rates for many products.... it's terrible.

It's the second time now i was expecting some decent clickbank checks...just to see there is about 35% - 40% debits making the total way less than what i expected ;/ And the refund rates are highest with the "high ticket" items usually.

Some products on CB have a 75%ish REFUND rate. The low quality and hyped promises by those vendors really hurt anyone.

I think i am really better off staying with many low price items like ebooks and game guides, while they often only pay $25 but there is a way lower chance for refunds.

And: QUALITY, no more rehashed crap....but there's so much out right now which is rehashed.
#clickbank #rates #refund
  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

    If you look on cbengine.com and check the clickbank refund rates for many products.... it's terrible.

    It's the second time now i was expecting some decent clickbank checks...just to see there is about 35% - 40% debits making the total way less than what i expected ;/ And the refund rates are highest with the "high ticket" items usually.

    Some products on CB have a 75%ish REFUND rate. The low quality and hyped promises by those vendors really hurt anyone.

    I think i am really better off staying with many low price items like ebooks and game guides, while they often only pay $25 but there is a way lower chance for refunds.

    And: QUALITY, no more rehashed crap....but there's so much out right now which is rehashed.
    Firtsly, Clickbank does NOT publish refund rates so those figures you are seeing on CBEngine can not be trusted.

    In saying that, I do agree there would be a lot of products at the moment with enormous refund rates. The only people to blame for those refund rates are the product vendors themselves.

    No matter how you look at, Clickbank is still just another payment processor. If your product is crap, it doesn't matter whether it is on Clickbank, Paypal, or whatever, people are still going to feel ripped off and want their money back.

    I am sure there are also a lot of products on Clickbank right now that have very low refund rates. It shouldn't be too hard to weed those ones out from the others. All you need to look for is a product that actually delivers on its promise, and then some.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adie
    I'm wondering. Does the refund record affects the gravity of the product? Because I saw some real crap on top of the list...
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    • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
      Originally Posted by Adie View Post

      I'm wondering. Does the refund record affects the gravity of the product? Because I saw some real crap on top of the list...
      Argh..Gravity...it means nothing. I know some people think that gravity is all so important, but it isn't. One of my best sites in a micro niche promotes a product and the gravity is under 10.

      And there are some gems on clickbank with gravity <10 where i know the refund rate is very low.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jouvan Johnson
        Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

        Argh..Gravity...it means nothing. I know some people think that gravity is all so important, but it isn't. One of my best sites in a micro niche promotes a product and the gravity is under 10.

        And there are some gems on clickbank with gravity <10 where i know the refund rate is very low.
        I never knew this I always looked for the very high gravity products
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Jouvan Johnson View Post

          I never knew this I always looked for the very high gravity products
          Many people do, Jouvan. There are lots of terribly misguided and ill-informed "guidebooks" advising exactly that. :p

          The reality is that some of the highest gravity ones have the very worst conversion-rates. For the reasons and like the examples shown in this post.

          Originally Posted by WillR View Post

          Which "push button 3 step software program that has made me $98,312 in the last 2 hours..." should we go after first?
          LOL, from my perspective, they can clean out the whole lot of them.
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          • I've heard that if you can keep it around 20%, you're good because of how easy it is to get a refund.

            But most of these new software products with misleading sales pages are 40% or higher for obvious reasons.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      Some products on CB have a 75%ish REFUND rate.
      Georg, with respect, this simply isn't true.

      Any Clickbank product with a refund-rate anywhere near that would be removed from the marketplace very quickly indeed! They'd be losing money on it, because of the processing/administrative fees. Their cut is only 7.5% + $1 per sale.

      Anyway, as rightly pointed out above, refund rate information is not available. It never has been.

      These sites/services who claim to be able to work it out from published information are either deluded or lying. They can fool a lot of gullible people, though, if their websites are impressive enough. Clickbank (rightly) doesn't make this information available. But they're clear and open about the fact that if the refund-rate for a product, across a wide range of affiliates, is "significant", then they'll remove it from the marketplace. And they genuinely do that, too.

      It's true that one or two niches (forex?) have above average collective refund rates because of the crappy nature of most of the products and the way vendors and affiliates often make exaggerated claims about their capabilities, but different affiliates can have hugely differing refund-rates for the same product, according to how the product's been pre-sold. Refund-rates, in general, actually have more to do with the affiliate than with the product.

      And then, of course, there are all the people who look at the "%rfd" figure (which Clickbank has recently removed from the marketplace statistics) and imagine that "rfd" stands for "refunded".

      Originally Posted by Adie View Post

      Does the refund record affects the gravity of the product?
      No; it doesn't.

      To summarise, again: information about the refund-rates of Clickbank products is not published and not available. Anyone claiming to know it is mistaken.
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      • Profile picture of the author WillR
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Any Clickbank product with a refund-rate anywhere near that would be removed from the marketplace very quickly indeed!
        So you mean to say, all we need do is get a whole lot of us to buy a certain product and ask for a refund, and it might be removed from the marketplace?

        Let's get to it!

        Which "push button 3 step software program that has made me $98,312 in the last 2 hours..." should we go after first?
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        • Profile picture of the author shabit87
          Originally Posted by WillR View Post

          So you mean to say, all we need do is get a whole lot of us to buy a certain product and ask for a refund, and it might be removed from the marketplace?

          Let's get to it!

          Which "push button 3 step software program that has made me $98,312 in the last 2 hours..." should we go after first?
          LOL talk about "networking" and working together. Anyhow, since its now brought to our attention (as if we didn't know) we need to determine why the refund rate is high. I see a lot of people just saying the product doesn't deliver but I have to believe that isn't always the case.

          So how can we as vendors help reduce these rates?

          Also lets say a vendor test his copy, gets his feedback, etc using one source (like a forum) and he sales 100 copies. Out of the 100 sold only 5 refund and he gets back great reviews.

          So he's doing well and decides to put his product on clickbank. He sales another 100 but this time gets 15 refund request. What is the cause of this increase in refunds? Maybe, and I'm not for certain, its the kind of buyers clickbank attracts.

          People are not only browsing on the web for products but also in Clickbank's marketplace. I would image a good bit of them may contribute to the high number of refunds for several reasons. One being they know how easy the refund process is with Clickbank.

          So even though I would agree, some products just don't deliver I think we have to dig deeper in the reasons as to why this refund rates are so high. And more importantly how can we reduce these refund rates either as affiliates and vendors.

          I would suggest we
          1. Make the sales letter more clear about who the product is NOT for
          2. Encouraging all doubters to ask questions before making purchases (or some other alternative to taking time or gathering information to make a better decision about making the purchase)
          3. Give unannounced bonuses over a period of time
          4. Being clear about any and all guarantees made
          5. Offering good support...period

          Okay so I guess I'm done. Great thread btw. Hope it opens some eyes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Harper
    I've never done any affiliate marketing, but if I did then I'd certainly want to see and use any product before I promoted it.
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  • Profile picture of the author BenSalez
    There are many hidden gems out there with very low refund rates. I move about 50k a year in volume with one of my products as a vendor and have less than a 2% refund rate. You guessed it... its outside of the Make money niche.

    Ben
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    • Profile picture of the author Qamar
      Originally Posted by BenSalez View Post

      There are many hidden gems out there with very low refund rates. I move about 50k a year in volume with one of my products as a vendor and have less than a 2% refund rate. You guessed it... its outside of the Make money niche.

      Ben
      care to tell me what's the product?
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  • How can CBengine possibly know refund rates if they're not published in any way by Clickbank?
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  • Profile picture of the author WilsonA
    Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

    If you look on cbengine.com and check the clickbank refund rates for many products.... it's terrible.

    It's the second time now i was expecting some decent clickbank checks...just to see there is about 35% - 40% debits making the total way less than what i expected ;/ And the refund rates are highest with the "high ticket" items usually.

    Some products on CB have a 75%ish REFUND rate. The low quality and hyped promises by those vendors really hurt anyone.

    I think i am really better off staying with many low price items like ebooks and game guides, while they often only pay $25 but there is a way lower chance for refunds.

    And: QUALITY, no more rehashed crap....but there's so much out right now which is rehashed.
    It depends on what you are promoting I have noticed refund rates tend to be higher in niches such as IM, forex, stocks, government grants type of software and so on. But they tend to not exist in niches like languages and others
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  • Profile picture of the author Adie
    Well said. I think I need to have a certain product first in order to make a review.. thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author Clubland
    I barely sell anything from clickbank anymore. I do check some items i think is worth persuing, but overall, i think its better to bring out your own products, then ask the customers if they liked it. Then if they did, then ask them to be an affiliate for you.

    Because i always have found, that customers are the best affiliates. Not affiliates who haven't even handled, or seen the product.

    Give your customers the 100% commission on the front end, then you make it on the back end by capturing their email address and future custom.

    Then if you go on to make your own affiliates empire. Then you would have the best affiliates, because they know your products, not people who just want the money for money sakes.

    I will always stick by the saying: Your customers are your best affiliates.

    And if your product is crap, they will tell you, believe me on that.

    And also, forget support hub thingy. Better off replying personally to each email you recieve, you employ someone to do it. Because they like the personal touch, not wait for donkey years for their ticket to be seen, they will think, you take them as just numbers.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemac1
    Btw...this is from CBEngine, gives you how they figure the refund %...

    Question: One thing that confuses me is that on a few products, the refund rate says 'na', while on the rest it always shows a percentage (even when it's a new product, and the rate is 0%)

    What does the 'na' signify?
    Answer: NA signifies NOT AVAILABLE. We are unable to calculate return rates for recurring products and vendors with multiple product IDs. Keep in mind, refund rates are not an exact science. We simply subtract the payout from the average earned to get a percentage. Occasionally vendors change product prices which will skew return rate percentages. We're hoping in the future Clickbank makes precise return rate data available.
    Matt
    Here's the link: Clickbank Refund Rates » CBengine ClickBank Blog
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    • Profile picture of the author jan roos
      I got a JV request for a new Clickbank product and the owner was raving that his product only get a 27% refund rate vs the 40% average on Clickbank.

      Makes me wonder about listing my product there because so many people just refund for the hell of it because CB's refund procedure is so easy.

      Cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    Don't blame it all on CB. Actually, i once needed to get a refund myself on a service i used for several months..it took me a while to find out how exactly to refund on clickbank.

    But...i think the main problem is just the horrible quality of (many) hyped products, and i think its gotten even worse recently. And if people get cr*p which doesnt satisfy they refund. Why would someone otherwise refund a product which provides value and is useful?

    The OTHER problem is, i see many vendors simply GREEDY and charging too much, or the tendency to charge monthly for some software which (IMO) doesn't even legitimate monthly payments. If someone gets a monthly bill of $97 just for a keyword software or a submitter....of course there are more refunds.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    Alexa,

    yes its true that CB doesn't publish refund rates *per se*, but what Mike linked makes a lot of sense.

    Because you can deduct somewhat from the actual payouts. Before they displayed the "refund rates", i looked at the average *real* payouts.

    An indication for a high refund rate is if the ACTUAL payout is way lower than the theoretical payout. Say 50% from $97 would mean $48 commissions, but the actual payout would only be $20.

    The more the actual payout differs downwards, the higher the refund rate.

    So its at least *some* indication.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      Alexa,

      yes its true that CB doesn't publish refund rates *per se*, but what Mike linked makes a lot of sense.
      To some people, Georg, I know.

      Not to me. I've discussed it with Clickbank in the past, and they've satisfied me completely that it's total nonsense. This is one of the issues on which I do actually trust and believe them, because what they say makes complete commercial sense, too (and on those issues, they're reliable and credible). The theory that "some products there have a 75% refund rate" (which is where this conversation started) is frankly impossible, in my opinion. They would have been removed from the marketplace way before reaching that proportion. So, we must agree to disagree. To me, it doesn't make sense at all. It ignores many complications and other relevant possibilities. Sorry. We agree about so many other things that we can afford to disagree about this one.
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  • Profile picture of the author laurenswuyts
    As an affiliate you always should know what the product is about. If you're an affliate and ask for the product you might get it.
    Just see if the product you sell, is a great product and not one of those 'How to make money quick" then you should be alright
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  • Profile picture of the author TheCopywriter
    Refunds are just part of the game with Clickbank...they customer support reps must be busy people...
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  • Profile picture of the author jennywalton
    it differs for every vendor, some it is due to poor product, some poor customer support, etc
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  • Profile picture of the author Nisip
    Banned
    Instant Cash Empire with the old man reading the script, has a refund rate of 79.85% and still is in TOP POPULARITY on first place on cbengine.

    Either cbengine just makes up from thin air those numbers from refund rates, either
    still CB is going down...
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Nisip View Post

      Instant Cash Empire with the old man reading the script, has a refund rate of 79.85%
      Doesn't that, in itself, tell you that the "information" can't possibly be true? :rolleyes:

      For the reasons explained in post #8 above, this is just nonsense; sorry.
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  • Profile picture of the author flocon
    I have had problems finding products to promote on clickbank. I think that making a false promise to customers is a method that could lead to issuing refunds.
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  • Profile picture of the author ChadOath
    The CBEngine formula is completely unreliable. What they do is look at the difference between the full commission amount and the Avg$/Sale. The Avg$/Sale can obviously be dramatically lowered if there are lower priced products in the same account, including the discounted prices of the main products that is so common today with the exit splash type pages. ALL products in the account get factored in.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
    Since maybe most of us could agree that only Clkbank would be in a position to know the TRUE refund rates, why don't they publish those rates for affiliates?

    That would seem the fairest, most responsible thing to do, no?
    _____
    Bruce
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  • Profile picture of the author theantihype
    GRQ / IM products are going to by-and-large under-deliver. If you want to start making big money, follow the trends and get out of GRQ!
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  • Profile picture of the author RussRuffino
    Alexa is right about the refund rates being impossible to determine with any degree of accuracy. HOWEVER, I've bought several of the latest guru launches (I buy them just to keep up with what they're doing) and 3 out of 4 have been horrible. Just horrible.

    I would be stunned if the refund rates on these weren't AT LEAST 30-40%...but only they know for sure.

    Russ
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  • Profile picture of the author namempire
    Hi I'm new! I've had terrible experiences with ClickBank, terrible actually...their products are disgraceful and payouts inexcusable.
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel LaRusso
      Originally Posted by namempire View Post

      Hi I'm new! I've had terrible experiences with ClickBank, terrible actually...their products are disgraceful and payouts inexcusable.
      That's not so much due to Clickbank, it's the vendors themselves. The vendors control both their products AND their commission rate, so your beef should be with them.

      Having said that, I'm a vendor for Clickbank with my e-book, and lately the return rate has gotten pretty high. I've seen some of the other products like mine, and I know that at least in my mind, mine is better and more comprehensive, still I get probably around a 40% return rate or so. And I've experimented with price points, it doesn't really matter if it's high or low.

      Some of the reasons that I've gotten include some things that I feel are ridiculous, like:
      - your product didn't teach me how to be a programmer (when I state over and over and over again that my method is about outsourcing and not programming)

      - your product didn't teach me how to create an app (seriously?)

      - I didn't know what I was buying (honestly, this was the excuse that one person gave)

      I really think that there is a subset of people out there who habitually buy Clickbank products because of the liberal refund rate, then ask for a refund after the product has already been delivered and used.

      I feel like Clickbank should either be a little more stringent on the time for allowing refunds, or at least have some sort of quality control.

      Having said that, I don't know if it would be any better at ejunkie or anywhere else, and I guess that's just the price you pay for being a vendor on Clickbank.

      And, as someone mentioned, if someone wants to promote my product, I will gladly partner with them, give them complete access to my courses, and do anything I can to help them succeed.

      My commission rate is 70%, because I feel like if someone deems my product at worthy to promote, they should reap the majority of the reward from it, beyond the 50% or so default rate. After all, the affiliate does the legwork in most cases, so they should get paid for that.
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