Fun with math - the Arbitrage Conspiracy

by Chris Thompson 101 replies
Hey everyone,

I was reading the sales letter for the Arbitrage Conspiracy today. The guy claims to make 50k to 100k per day by using PPC to drive traffic to CPA offers. Apparently there is way more money in this than "selling stuff".

The sales letter bugged me because he correctly brought up the question of "why would I teach this to you if it worked as well as I say it does, why not just keep it a secret". He goes on to explain that he's starting a CPA network himself, and wants to train people so they'll be his affilates on the network later. Fine.

But here is what bugged me.

He says he held a conference in Vegas and, I quote, "
To help cover costs, we also allowed just 10 other people to pay to attend. They paid up to $10,000 for this 1-day seminar, and those seats sold out in 48 hours."

What? So let me get this straight. This guy makes at least 50k per day and up to 100k per day. That works out to $18.25 million per year, at the low end of his range.

So he decided to hold a conference in Vegas for a bunch of Gurus, and there was no cost to them ... but he also offered 10 spots at up to $10K each, to raise another $100k to "help cover costs".

This means two things:

1) A guy who makes $18M minimum per year is worried about recouping costs for a small conference, and is willing to invite total strangers to the conference in order to do this.

2) We are to believe that a conference for 150 free guests plus 10 paid guests (160 people total) over a ONE DAY period cost over $100k to put on? Hello? The last time I rented a beautiful facility to accomodate that many people the cost was only a few thousand dollars. Nothing even close to 100k.


So, my warrior friends ... I feel like calling HUGE B.S. on this guy's sales letter, but before I do, I'm interested in your thoughts.

Call me curious.
#main internet marketing discussion forum #arbitrage #conspiracy #fun #math
  • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
    2) We are to believe that a conference for 150 free guests plus 10 paid guests (160 people total) over a ONE DAY period cost over $100k to put on? Hello? The last time I rented a beautiful facility to accomodate that many people the cost was only a few thousand dollars. Nothing even close to 100k.
    They ate caviar?

    Martin
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    • Profile picture of the author jrsencio
      Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post

      They ate caviar?

      Martin
      They inebriated themselves on crates of beluga?
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  • Profile picture of the author OmegaSayin
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  • Profile picture of the author Noah Fleming
    It's all about leverage and calling in the favors.

    I respect many of the people in those videos but make no mistake you won't be competing against Eben or half those people in the CPA markets. I'll put my house on that.

    Somebody on my private forum really put CPA into perspective today.

    The real $2k secret - make more money then you spend - simple economics.

    That is all there is to it. You need a bank roll for this business as well. I'm not sure people understand that it costs money to make money in CPA. I know this. I've done it. I wrote a report on CPA last year cause I had small time success. But it cost money to make money. IE. Spend $1000 - make $1200

    Is there money to be made? 100%. No doubt.

    Are Aymen & Emmanuel really making a boatload of cash? No doubt. Not one doubt. The cheques are real and that is genuine success.

    Can success be found in CPA Marketing? Yes.

    Will it happen for most? No.


    The sad part of IM is that too many people are walking around like sheep with the wool pulled over their eyes.

    Read the comments on the Arbitrage Conspiracy and you'll find people who are broke & have lost jobs that just "know that arbitrage conspiracy will set them free" all because Eben & Brad & Mike & yada & yada & yada said it would make their own businesses millions of dollars.

    They just know in their hearts "this time it will be different...." They just know that even after buying this big launch that promised success and that big launch that promised success, this time it will be different.

    Yet, they already spent 10k over the past two years on other products that promised the exact same thing.

    It's a sad state of affairs no doubt.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr. Write
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
      Originally Posted by Mr. Write View Post

      Anybody claiming to make that much money is a liar. Anybody who believes him is an even bigger fool.
      There are many that do make that and more, but for every $1 the make in arbitrage probably cost them 50-75 cents in PPC.
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      • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
        It's not B.S. at all...

        I believe that the guy behind the program is planning on starting his own CPA network...

        So he hooked up with some guru's that have large lists...

        If enough people actually decide to implement what they learn using his product... He will be able to start his own CPA network with a large group of affiliates that are already sold on his methods.

        That's why he would be willing to give the info away.

        It may seem crazy to some of you but - there are people that make even more than $100,000 per day.

        This dudes story is totally believable... there is no way that he would have gotten the testimonials that he got from Eben Pagen, Mike Filsaime, and so on - if he wasn't legit.
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        • Profile picture of the author melanied
          Originally Posted by marcanthony View Post

          there is no way that he would have gotten the testimonials that he got from Eben Pagen, Mike Filsaime, and so on - if he wasn't legit.
          I'm not saying his story isn't true - but history has not proven that testimonials from big gurus always mean a product is legit. I'm just sayin'
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          • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
            Originally Posted by melanied View Post

            I'm not saying his story isn't true - but history has not proven that testimonials from big gurus always mean a product is legit. I'm just sayin'
            My point was that they wouldn't just give anyone a testimonial...
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            • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
              I just think that skepticism is at an all time high these days...

              I don't mind skepticism - hell, I understand why people may be harder to convince...

              What worries me is where the skepticism is coming from...

              Why doesn't this guys numbers sound legit? Is it because they don't make sense to you? Or... is it that you don't think that you can do it?

              The truth is that there are people out there that would be in a bad mood if all they made was $36 million a year.

              If all I made was $5,000 in a month - I would have to seriously take a step back and look at my business to see what I was doing wrong...
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              • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
                Originally Posted by marcanthony View Post

                Why doesn't this guys numbers sound legit? Is it because they don't make sense to you? Or... is it that you don't think that you can do it?

                The truth is that there are people out there that would be in a bad mood if all they made was $36 million a year.
                How many 1 or 2 person operations make $36 million a year (not counting entertainers or athletes)?

                The skepticism comes in when you calculate what this launch would bring in and compare it to what they are already supposedly making. Why go to the trouble just to make another 1-2 weeks income? Why not put that effort into doing more CPA stuff if it's so darn easy?

                Then throw in the lack of proof and the fact that nobody heard of these people until now and that some who attended in Vegas said it was just basic info...

                It's funny how a $37 ebook will get more scrutiny from some people than something like this- it's as if as long as the claims are big enough, it must be true.
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                • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
                  Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

                  How many 1 or 2 person operations make $36 million a year (not counting entertainers or athletes)?

                  The skepticism comes in when you calculate what this launch would bring in and compare it to what they are already supposedly making. Why go to the trouble just to make another 1-2 weeks income? Why not put that effort into doing more CPA stuff if it's so darn easy?
                  Leverage.

                  From 1000 students (1 million dollars profit after affiliate payments and costs) they may get 100 people who do really well and can pump volume through the CPA offers they are promoting.

                  If they have 100 people then 10 of them will probably be exceptional and of those 2 will be extreme.

                  This could make a big difference for them
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            • Originally Posted by marcanthony View Post

              My point was that they wouldn't just give anyone a testimonial...
              Sure. Trade a testimonial for a cut of the profits.
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            • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
              Really? Thats weird....I see the same big names on almost every product launch...I hear the same big names endorsing the same big names new product every time I watch a video or listen to some type of live show on the internet.

              I'm not saying there is any kind of conspiracy, because I think most products that come out, even if they are not all they are cracked up to be, add some good value to my business as well as to others.

              I'm just saying that there seems to be a ton of "hey, it's your turn to be on my sales page" going on...Do I know it for a fact? Nope, just making an observation.


              Originally Posted by marcanthony View Post

              My point was that they wouldn't just give anyone a testimonial...
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        • Profile picture of the author havplenty
          Originally Posted by marcanthony View Post

          It's not B.S. at all...

          I believe that the guy behind the program is planning on starting his own CPA network...

          So he hooked up with some guru's that have large lists...

          If enough people actually decide to implement what they learn using his product... He will be able to start his own CPA network with a large group of affiliates that are already sold on his methods.

          That's why he would be willing to give the info away.

          It may seem crazy to some of you but - there are people that make even more than $100,000 per day.

          This dudes story is totally believable... there is no way that he would have gotten the testimonials that he got from Eben Pagen, Mike Filsaime, and so on - if he wasn't legit.
          I am amazed that take the testimonial of one guru endorsing another. The point is when I decide to make a buying decision based on a testimonial, the person who is making the testimonial has to be a buyer themself. I never buy products from gurus who have other gurus splashed over their salespages. The whole thing wreaks of a conspiracy. A conspiracy to defraud!

          When I start making $100,000 a day in internet marketing, I won't be launching $1997 courses; I'll be investing in internet start-ups in silicon valley.

          I suppose your going to tell us all that 'you' earn over $50,000 a day too - haha!
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          • Originally Posted by havplenty View Post

            I am amazed that take the testimonial of one guru endorsing another.
            I'm not that familiar with the product, but didn't I read that other "gurus" were offered some incentive?
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          • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
            Originally Posted by havplenty View Post

            I am amazed that take the testimonial of one guru endorsing another. The point is when I decide to make a buying decision based on a testimonial, the person who is making the testimonial has to be a buyer themself. I never buy products from gurus who have other gurus splashed over their salespages. The whole thing wreaks of a conspiracy. A conspiracy to defraud!

            When I start making $100,000 a day in internet marketing, I won't be launching $1997 courses; I'll be investing in internet start-ups in silicon valley.

            I suppose your going to tell us all that 'you' earn over $50,000 a day too - haha!
            The price of the course is irrelevant - the reason that he released Arbitrage Conspiracy is because Aymen is planning on starting his own CPA network - and what better way to create a buzz and make money for it than releasing his product.

            The point I was making about the guru testimonials was that they have nothing to gain for vouching for this guy.

            And, trust me - whether or not I make $50,000 a day... I would never waste my time trying to convince you of it.

            For all you know - I could be a multi-billionaire...

            Dude... save your corny little "ha, ha, ha's" for someone else - this forum is for adults...
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    • Profile picture of the author chris_surfrider
      Originally Posted by Mr. Write View Post

      Anybody claiming to make that much money is a liar. Anybody who believes him is an even bigger fool.
      Now that's worth a laugh...

      $100k a day is roughly 36.5 Million per year.

      That's big money, but there's a LOT of entrepreneurs in virtually every major industry that see this kind of income.

      Just because YOU don't see "how" this is possible, doesn't mean it's impossible.

      Also, CPA is all about brokering traffic.

      It's not as passive as typical aff promotion because you always have to be checking to see if offers expire, or if there's a daily cap, etc.

      It works GREAT for affiliates who can quickly move traffic, though. Big mailers, people with some serious PPC funding and authority sites with tons of traffic can do very well with CPA. To the tune of millions a year.

      This is the mainstream marketplace.

      -Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
      Originally Posted by Mr. Write View Post

      Anybody claiming to make that much money is a liar. Anybody who believes him is an even bigger fool.
      You are misguided. There are books you can read to expand your thinking capacity.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brad Callen
      Originally Posted by Mr. Write View Post

      Anybody claiming to make that much money is a liar. Anybody who believes him is an even bigger fool.
      lol...

      I believe him.

      Brad
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    • Profile picture of the author nicholasb
      Originally Posted by Mr. Write View Post

      Anybody claiming to make that much money is a liar. Anybody who believes him is an even bigger fool.
      so theres nobody in this whole world that that doesnt earn 18million per year.

      ever heard of oprah donald trump or warren buffet, These are just some of the more common names there are many people who earn way more than 18m per year

      Some people just dont believe it is possible to make money, and with those limiting beliefs they will never find out for themselves. here read this The world's billionaires: A dime a dozen - International Herald Tribune
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Thompson
    There is just no rational reason to believe that this guy needs to "cover his costs" of 100k (even if they could possibly be that high) when he has been supposedly making over $18M per year. No reason to believe this at all.

    I think the only part that makes it all "almost OK" is that there is a refund guarantee. If you learn enough to make a profit (above your cost of training) then I think it's worth every penny. If you learn that you need $10k to bankroll the project, and that you could lose money easily, then I'd ask for a refund in a second. No question.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
    Some more fuzzy math: if the 12-week course is only $1997, why was the 1-day event $10,000? I would hope a 12-week course has more than 8 hours worth of content in it.

    Could it be that nobody actually paid $10,000 to attend? Did anyone see it advertised?
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    • Profile picture of the author melanied
      The thing that I don't quite understand is this - there are not an unlimited supply of CPA offers floating around at any given time like there are affiliate products.

      Why would I want to jump into competing with all of the other students of this course over the few hundred CPA offers available at any given time?
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      • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
        Originally Posted by melanied View Post

        The thing that I don't quite understand is this - there are not an unlimited supply of CPA offers floating around at any given time like there are affiliate products.

        Why would I want to jump into competing with all of the other students of this course over the few hundred CPA offers available at any given time?

        There is an unlimited supply if you are creative. It is essentially lead generation. If you can do a deal with any business that wants leads you can set up your own CPA style program with them.

        Education, property, finance, automotive etc.....

        Buy traffic >> Sell Leads

        It is a HUGE business and unlimited in scale.
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    • Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

      Could it be that nobody actually paid $10,000 to attend? Did anyone see it advertised?
      Did it have the world famous qualifier "up to" in front of 10k? The whole thing stinks. If I was making $50k per day, I'd be done developing new stuff for quite some time. In fact, if I could sustain that for a year, I could go on for the rest of my life without ever earning another dime.

      I'd like to see this sales page.
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      • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
        Originally Posted by faxinator View Post

        Did it have the world famous qualifier "up to" in front of 10k? The whole thing stinks. If I was making $50k per day, I'd be done developing new stuff for quite some time. In fact, if I could sustain that for a year, I could go on for the rest of my life without ever earning another dime.

        I'd like to see this sales page.
        If you have trading in your blood you will not sit back - even after you are wealthy beyond any conventional measure.

        Don Trump, Warren Buffet, Bill Gates etc..... they LOVE and have a Passion for business
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    • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
      Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

      Some more fuzzy math: if the 12-week course is only $1997, why was the 1-day event $10,000? I would hope a 12-week course has more than 8 hours worth of content in it.

      Could it be that nobody actually paid $10,000 to attend? Did anyone see it advertised?
      Take into account that people at the event had an inside run on promoting. They could easily re-coup that investment by applying the material and then becoming an affiliate for the launch.
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  • Originally Posted by Chris Thompson View Post

    So, my warrior friends ... I feel like calling HUGE B.S. on this guy's sales letter, but before I do, I'm interested in your thoughts.
    I agree. Doing both online marketing as well as doing my own live seminars, his numbers don't make any sense.
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  • I have a question: I don't do any CPA stuff. What's the biggest CPA network out there?
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  • Profile picture of the author getsmartt
    BS or no BS, one thing that is never made clear in any of these PPC pitches, and has been hinted at above, when they say they make 50K a day that is gross profit, more likely after costs his profit margin is probably closer to 5 - 10 K per day, still healthy, but nowhere close to 18M a year.

    Maybe that will add a little perspective to the conversation.
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    • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
      Originally Posted by getsmartt View Post

      BS or no BS, one thing that is never made clear in any of these PPC pitches, and has been hinted at above, when they say they make 50K a day that is gross profit, more likely after costs his profit margin is probably closer to 5 - 10 K per day, still healthy, but nowhere close to 18M a year.

      Maybe that will add a little perspective to the conversation.
      He did make it clear that he was making $50,000 $100,000 in net profits.
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    • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
      Originally Posted by getsmartt View Post

      BS or no BS, one thing that is never made clear in any of these PPC pitches, and has been hinted at above, when they say they make 50K a day that is gross profit, more likely after costs his profit margin is probably closer to 5 - 10 K per day, still healthy, but nowhere close to 18M a year.

      Maybe that will add a little perspective to the conversation.
      50k - 100k NET is what they state. That is PROFIT.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    Not defending this but you forgot the costs of the hotel rooms, the air fare for each guest and the food ... ooh and lets not forget about the bar tabs and such.

    I don't know about you but I would be one expensive guest as soon as that bar opened

    Mike Hill

    PS - Gary Halbert once talked about being realistic, even if you do make that kind of money no one in their right mind will ever be able to wrap their heads around it so always come out with a more modest and more believable figure.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Yeah, the bar tab alone would be ridiculous... I"m an expensive guest as well lol

      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      Not defending this but you forgot the costs of the hotel rooms, the air fare for each guest and the food ... ooh and lets not forget about the bar tabs and such.

      I don't know about you but I would be one expensive guest as soon as that bar opened

      Mike Hill
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  • Profile picture of the author chris_surfrider
    Why not put that effort into doing more CPA stuff if it's so darn easy?
    Because making systematic money is boring.

    I don't make anywhere near what these guys are stating, but I can assure you once you reach a certain point (where you don't "need" more), money just kind of loses its "appeal", I guess?

    It's more satisfying to see people appreciate your BEST content.

    It's one thing to sit there all day making money with CPA. Or in my case, volumes of review sites, etc.

    But it's a whole other thing to see people go from broke to making thousands per month as a DIRECT result of your choosing to share your information.

    Sure, some people might be out for a quick buck.

    But usually their shallow personalities are tell-tale right from the start.

    I think when you see established entrepreneurs (think: Eben, Reese, Kern, etc.) revert back to the IM/B2B crowd, I think the main over-riding reason behind it is this:

    "Money is no longer an issue...

    ...so why am I doing BORING stuff - when I could still make a great living in an industry where I can be recognized, appreciated and see a truly fulfilling IMPACT?"


    This is seen in lots of different applications and walks of life.

    This is why so many movie actors are big on charities, adopting under-priveleged kids, forming non-profits, doing stuff like Bono, etc.

    And you see the same thing from industrialists, software billionaires, etc.

    Just something to think about...

    -Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
      Originally Posted by chris_surfrider View Post

      Because making systematic money is boring.

      I don't make anywhere near what these guys are stating, but I can assure you once you reach a certain point (where you don't "need" more), money just kind of loses its "appeal", I guess?


      This is why so many movie actors are big on charities, adopting under-priveleged kids, forming non-profits, doing stuff like Bono, etc.

      And you see the same thing from industrialists, software billionaires, etc.
      You're not seriously comparing this launch to doing charity work, are you? Are they giving laptops to homeless people and teaching them the system?

      If money lost its appeal, why do a big launch, which would seem to be intended to generate money? Retire or travel or something.
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    • Profile picture of the author apollocreed
      Originally Posted by chris_surfrider View Post

      Because making systematic money is boring.

      I don't make anywhere near what these guys are stating, but I can assure you once you reach a certain point (where you don't "need" more), money just kind of loses its "appeal", I guess?

      It's more satisfying to see people appreciate your BEST content.

      It's one thing to sit there all day making money with CPA. Or in my case, volumes of review sites, etc.

      But it's a whole other thing to see people go from broke to making thousands per month as a DIRECT result of your choosing to share your information.

      Sure, some people might be out for a quick buck.

      But usually their shallow personalities are tell-tale right from the start.

      I think when you see established entrepreneurs (think: Eben, Reese, Kern, etc.) revert back to the IM/B2B crowd, I think the main over-riding reason behind it is this:

      "Money is no longer an issue...

      ...so why am I doing BORING stuff - when I could still make a great living in an industry where I can be recognized, appreciated and see a truly fulfilling IMPACT?"


      This is seen in lots of different applications and walks of life.

      This is why so many movie actors are big on charities, adopting under-priveleged kids, forming non-profits, doing stuff like Bono, etc.

      And you see the same thing from industrialists, software billionaires, etc.

      Just something to think about...

      -Chris
      LOL.
      So if he is releasing the information in order to get a "warm fuzzy feelin" from helping people, why charge $2000 for it? When Bill Gates donates funds for malaria pills or antiretro virals, he does not add a 2000% mark up on the pills. Imagine if Bill Gates opens a charity pharmacy somewhere in Africa and in it the pharmacist is told to "sell up" and offer the "really powerful super duper" malaria pills to anyone for an extra 50% of the purchase price of the malaria pills on sale. I do not think most people would consider that charity.

      That angle is B.S. If "established entrepreneurs" like Eben, Reese, Kern etc really did not care about money, they would not be charging thousands for their courses nor would they be pimping often times suspect products. It is all about money - and more power to them. In my experience, the richer a person is, the more obsessed with money they become. Go to any village in Africa and then to Manhattan if you want proof of this.

      I too, like many others on this forum also support charities in our own small ways, but that does not mean I do not want more money or that I have stopped actively pursuing it.
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    • Profile picture of the author jrsencio
      Originally Posted by chris_surfrider View Post

      Because making systematic money is boring.

      I don't make anywhere near what these guys are stating, but I can assure you once you reach a certain point (where you don't "need" more), money just kind of loses its "appeal", I guess?

      It's more satisfying to see people appreciate your BEST content.

      It's one thing to sit there all day making money with CPA. Or in my case, volumes of review sites, etc.

      But it's a whole other thing to see people go from broke to making thousands per month as a DIRECT result of your choosing to share your information.

      Sure, some people might be out for a quick buck.

      But usually their shallow personalities are tell-tale right from the start.

      I think when you see established entrepreneurs (think: Eben, Reese, Kern, etc.) revert back to the IM/B2B crowd, I think the main over-riding reason behind it is this:

      "Money is no longer an issue...

      ...so why am I doing BORING stuff - when I could still make a great living in an industry where I can be recognized, appreciated and see a truly fulfilling IMPACT?"


      This is seen in lots of different applications and walks of life.

      This is why so many movie actors are big on charities, adopting under-priveleged kids, forming non-profits, doing stuff like Bono, etc.

      And you see the same thing from industrialists, software billionaires, etc.

      Just something to think about...

      -Chris
      Interesting point.
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      • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
        Originally Posted by jrsencio View Post

        Interesting point.
        I no in these 'big money' threads that people tend to filter things the way they see the world.

        People like Aymen do not see the world the same way.

        Try and walk in his shoes. He loves helping people, he has talent and is very bright. He likes to broker deals.

        Now he is meeting the CPA concept with people who want to learn it. Is that such a bad thing?
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  • Profile picture of the author eholmlund
    I was at the Vegas event. Neither myself or anyone I know paid $10k. They were selling some seats for $10k but I don't know if they sold any for that much. The invitees paid a small fee which probably covered the most of cost of the event.

    IMO they should not have pushed the $10k seminar angle in the sales letter because they didn't need to. It's obvious that they invited all the gurus to get social proof. They accomplished that mission, that should have been enough.

    As for some of the other questions above...

    There are a lot of "unknown" underground marketers making as much or more than Aymen, so that shouldn't be an issue. Besides that, some people on the "inside" of the PPC world in our IM niche have known Aymen for the past couple years. Gauher Chaudhry of PPC formula even vouched for Aymen's credibility in an email to his list, as Aymen was a customer of his.

    The other big question that keeps coming up is WHY would they release the secret info?

    Again, there are perfectly legitimate reasons. If Aymen is starting a CPA network, he can scale his earnings to the NEXT level by training a team of super affiliates to promote his offers using his own techniques.

    I think most of us in the IM crowd seriously underestimate the size of the global CPA business, and it's potential for growth.

    I can not nor will I defend them for the way this launch has been botched (on the affiliate side too), but I can tell you that they are real. Hope that helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author AndyCamden
    It's very possible to make that much money in one day.... if you know the ins and outs of CPA marketing. Remember marketing always has a little bit of hype to stimulate your emotions and get you to buy, but it doesn't mean that they're not making great money. I'm currently researching CPA marketing and I'm finding that there are free methods that work, but the ones that really work are the ones that require a little bit of an investment upfront. Bottom line... There is a grip of money to be made in CPA marketing if you know what you are doing!
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Faber
    I have no idea weather he's full of it or not. I really don't care because I'm not buying it anyway. I just have one thought for those of you that are saying no one that's making 18 - 36 million a year would ever charge $100k to recoup their costs.

    Find me a traditional business with revenues of $18 - 36 million annually that would put on an event that cost 20, 50, or $100K (Who knows what he really paid, anyway. How many dancing girls were there?) and wouldn't try to recoup their costs in some way. Some businesses would take the promotional expense as a write off, but many would not eat the whole thing, just to write it off against their taxes later. If you're making a ton of money, you will do some things like this to reduce your corporate profits, but many can't really afford to do this. Maybe he can't really afford it. On the other hand maybe he want's to create another revenue stream. There's big money in seminars and events.
    My .02
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  • Profile picture of the author dsiomtw
    That's bogus. Anyone with half a brain knows that 99.8% of people who buy this or any other course will not be "super successful" with it in the long run. To say that he is selling this course to train potential super affiliates for his own affiliate network is beyond stupid. Out of every 100 people buy this course, maybe 1 will have made any meaningful money 6 months later. Maybe 1 out of 1000 will become a real "super affiliate". If you are starting your own network you don't put on conferences and spend a ton of time developing and managing a product like this to train people to be your affiliates. Anyone with half a brain should see right through this. It's 110% pure BS.
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    • Profile picture of the author eholmlund
      Originally Posted by dsiomtw View Post

      That's bogus. Anyone with half a brain knows that 99.8% of people who buy this or any other course will not be "super successful" with it in the long run. To say that he is selling this course to train potential super affiliates for his own affiliate network is beyond stupid. Out of every 100 people buy this course, maybe 1 will have made any meaningful money 6 months later. Maybe 1 out of 1000 will become a real "super affiliate". If you are starting your own network you don't put on conferences and spend a ton of time developing and managing a product like this to train people to be your affiliates. Anyone with half a brain should see right through this. It's 110% pure BS.
      Of course only a small percentage of customers will reach the most elite level. But that's totally ignorant to say he wouldn't develop a product and train people to become affiliates. Developing products that train people to be your affiliates (or reps, downline, whatever) is a business model that has thrived for a long time both in and outside of our industry.

      Also I never said that was his only motive... but it may be one of his motives.
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    • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
      Originally Posted by dsiomtw View Post

      That's bogus. Anyone with half a brain knows that 99.8% of people who buy this or any other course will not be "super successful" with it in the long run. To say that he is selling this course to train potential super affiliates for his own affiliate network is beyond stupid. Out of every 100 people buy this course, maybe 1 will have made any meaningful money 6 months later. Maybe 1 out of 1000 will become a real "super affiliate". If you are starting your own network you don't put on conferences and spend a ton of time developing and managing a product like this to train people to be your affiliates. Anyone with half a brain should see right through this. It's 110% pure BS.
      about 79% of all businesses fail by the ten years mark (Startup Failure Rates — The REAL Numbers | Small Business Trends)

      so you could be quite general and say that in LIFE many people do not reach full potential.

      Who decides the portion that succeed? The customer. As long as the material is good don't blame the seller.
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  • Profile picture of the author Glenn Grundberg
    This dudes story is totally believable... there is no way that he would have gotten the testimonials that he got from Eben Pagen, Mike Filsaime, and so on - if he wasn't legit.
    Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh...

    Kool aid, anyone?
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      A few possibilities that spring immediately to mind:

      He's full of it.

      He's bored and wants something fun.

      He wants to be a celebrity.

      He's an empire builder and can't stop himself.

      He has a specific target he wants to hit fast, and then retire.

      He's looking to start his CPA network with a bunch of high producers already in place, who will get him a lot of primo clients fast, with him getting a cut of all of those deals.

      Some combination of the above.

      Something else I haven't thought of.


      Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
      Originally Posted by Glenn Grundberg View Post

      Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh...

      Kool aid, anyone?
      Yeah... I have Kool Aid - it's the same color as sarcasm.

      It's called unnecessary sarcasm - it's like a red-ish blue color
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  • Profile picture of the author Lance K
    Well, "worrying" about covering the costs is exactly why some people become super successful. They aim to earn a positive return on all of their dealings. Even if they don't need to.

    Letting the "gurus" in for free. Yup...positive ROI via affiliate sales.

    Charging non-gurus who aren't bringing big lists $10,000. Yup...positive ROI via cash flow. And the conference was going to be put on anyway, so adding 10 people would add minimum cost. But the $100,000 probably paid for the whole thing and then some.

    How dare a truly rich person make a responsible business decision.

    People who think rich people don't "worry" about covering costs on things that are small potatos to them are only partly right. They don't "worry" about their money, they manage it. Which is why they make something of themselves. The keep their eye on the bottom line.


    It's the folks with the lottery winner's mentality that wouldn't "worry" about covering the costs. They would invite all the gurus & whoever else wanted to come, buy them new cars, and do whatever else they could to buy friends without any thought about how to GROW their net worth.

    They're programmed to spend. And that's why almost all lottery winners end up just as broke as before they won. It's why celebrities can piss tens of millions of dollars down their legs in no time and end up flat busted. They don't "worry" (a.k.a. MANAGE/INVEST) about their money.



    Did I seriously just have to explain that?



    Originally Posted by Chris Thompson View Post


    But here is what bugged me.

    He says he held a conference in Vegas and, I quote, " To help cover costs, we also allowed just 10 other people to pay to attend. They paid up to $10,000 for this 1-day seminar, and those seats sold out in 48 hours."

    What? So let me get this straight. This guy makes at least 50k per day and up to 100k per day. That works out to $18.25 million per year, at the low end of his range.

    So he decided to hold a conference in Vegas for a bunch of Gurus, and there was no cost to them ... but he also offered 10 spots at up to $10K each, to raise another $100k to "help cover costs".

    This means two things:

    1) A guy who makes $18M minimum per year is worried about recouping costs for a small conference, and is willing to invite total strangers to the conference in order to do this.

    2) We are to believe that a conference for 150 free guests plus 10 paid guests (160 people total) over a ONE DAY period cost over $100k to put on? Hello? The last time I rented a beautiful facility to accomodate that many people the cost was only a few thousand dollars. Nothing even close to 100k.
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    • Profile picture of the author eholmlund
      Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

      How dare a truly rich person make a responsible business decision.

      People who think rich people don't "worry" about covering costs on things that are small potatos to them are only partly right. They don't "worry" about their money, they manage it. Which is why they make something of themselves. The keep their eye on the bottom line.
      True... in fact these guys are FREAKS when it comes to managing the numbers. They care about recouping their cost on a $0.50 click ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
    Originally Posted by Chris Thompson View Post

    Hey everyone,

    I was reading the sales letter for the Arbitrage Conspiracy today. The guy claims to make 50k to 100k per day by using PPC to drive traffic to CPA offers. Apparently there is way more money in this than "selling stuff".

    The sales letter bugged me because he correctly brought up the question of "why would I teach this to you if it worked as well as I say it does, why not just keep it a secret". He goes on to explain that he's starting a CPA network himself, and wants to train people so they'll be his affilates on the network later. Fine.

    But here is what bugged me.

    He says he held a conference in Vegas and, I quote, " To help cover costs, we also allowed just 10 other people to pay to attend. They paid up to $10,000 for this 1-day seminar, and those seats sold out in 48 hours."

    What? So let me get this straight. This guy makes at least 50k per day and up to 100k per day. That works out to $18.25 million per year, at the low end of his range.

    So he decided to hold a conference in Vegas for a bunch of Gurus, and there was no cost to them ... but he also offered 10 spots at up to $10K each, to raise another $100k to "help cover costs".

    This means two things:

    1) A guy who makes $18M minimum per year is worried about recouping costs for a small conference, and is willing to invite total strangers to the conference in order to do this.

    2) We are to believe that a conference for 150 free guests plus 10 paid guests (160 people total) over a ONE DAY period cost over $100k to put on? Hello? The last time I rented a beautiful facility to accomodate that many people the cost was only a few thousand dollars. Nothing even close to 100k.


    So, my warrior friends ... I feel like calling HUGE B.S. on this guy's sales letter, but before I do, I'm interested in your thoughts.

    Call me curious.
    He may make 18-36 million a year, but how much of it does he actually get to keep?

    Remember profit=sales-costs of doing business.

    If he's making 18 million, but his costs are 17.9 million, he's only keeping about 100k in profits.

    Words to live by.
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  • Nobody can answer my question about the CPA network?
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  • Ok, never mind, I found it. It turns out that according to the information I could find, CJ is the largest CPA network. Their TOTAL sales in 2007 were $9 million.

    These arbitrage conspiracy guys are taking in DOUBLE per year what the largest CPA network in the land is taking in.

    Amazing!
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  • Profile picture of the author chris_surfrider
    The last few responses to my "charity" post are pretty amusing.

    Of course they do it for the money.

    I'm not saying otherwise.

    I AM saying that it is enjoyable to teach stuff that you're good at and actually have an interest in.

    As much as you might be passionate about email-submit offers for guessing Sarah Palin's IQ, sometimes it's fulfilling to teach what you're really good at.

    But then what the hell do I know...

    I don't know the first fricken thing about doing well in niche markets, finding it a little boring, and enjoying myself in the IM niche at the same time to keep myself more engaged.

    Not a clue.

    So here - I'll join in like a good little parrot:

    "That's right guys - for sure, they're obviously so full of shit. First of all it's impossible to make that much (nobody does - how could they?), and why would they ever want to share this?"

    I know - here's a novel idea:

    How about you actually TRY the strategy that's already clearly laid out in their free teaser guide?

    I've made good cash with CPA in the past.

    It can happen quickly (and disappear just as quickly).

    I mean - of course it can't.

    It's all a load of shit and you know it.

    -Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
    Originally Posted by Chris Thompson View Post

    Hey everyone,
    To help cover costs, we also allowed just 10 other people to pay to attend. They paid up to $10,000 for this 1-day seminar, and those seats sold out in 48 hours."

    What? So let me get this straight. This guy makes at least 50k per day and up to 100k per day. That works out to $18.25 million per year, at the low end of his range.

    So he decided to hold a conference in Vegas for a bunch of Gurus, and there was no cost to them ... but he also offered 10 spots at up to $10K each, to raise another $100k to "help cover costs".

    This means two things:

    1) A guy who makes $18M minimum per year is worried about recouping costs for a small conference, and is willing to invite total strangers to the conference in order to do this.
    [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE]
    2) We are to believe that a conference for 150 free guests plus 10 paid guests (160 people total) over a ONE DAY period cost over $100k to put on? Hello? The last time I rented a beautiful facility to accomodate that many people the cost was only a few thousand dollars. Nothing even close to 100k.


    So, my warrior friends ... I feel like calling HUGE B.S. on this guy's sales letter, but before I do, I'm interested in your thoughts.

    Call me curious.

    Option 1) read the sales letter. He explained why the meeting came about. He had to introduce himself to the IM community. Makes sense to cover some costs wouldn't you?

    Option 2) only a few thousand dollars to HOST 150 people in Vegas?
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  • Profile picture of the author freudianslip27
    From my experience with CPA, I just can't see how you could make that much consistently day in and day out, on that level. As others mentioned, there just aren't that many offers out there, and when you find one that works for you, it may be a few days till its pulled and you have to find another.

    It seems as though there is this expectation that you will overhype your product in order for it to be successful.

    Matt
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    • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
      Originally Posted by freudianslip27 View Post

      From my experience with CPA, I just can't see how you could make that much consistently day in and day out, on that level. As others mentioned, there just aren't that many offers out there, and when you find one that works for you, it may be a few days till its pulled and you have to find another.

      It seems as though there is this expectation that you will overhype your product in order for it to be successful.

      Matt
      Matt he actually tells you on the sales page,

      You can bid on every single product in the store for Home Depot etc.... Nobody can cover every possible bid for the unlimited available offers.

      The only limits are time, talent, ability for automation, creativity, desire etc...
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    • Originally Posted by freudianslip27 View Post

      From my experience with CPA, I just can't see how you could make that much consistently day in and day out, on that level. As others mentioned, there just aren't that many offers out there, and when you find one that works for you, it may be a few days till its pulled and you have to find another.
      Hey, their profit is twice what CJ did in total sales last year. Aren't you impressed?

      Originally Posted by freudianslip27 View Post

      It seems as though there is this expectation that you will overhype your product in order for it to be successful.
      I'm with you. I'd rather deal with more honest people whose numbers aren't so wildly questionable.
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  • Profile picture of the author melanied
    OK, maybe I have the wrong definition in my mind of CPA, then. Because, as I understood it, if you were to bid on every item in the Home Depot catalog, that wouldn't be CPA - that would be affiliate marketing. If they buy something from Home Depot and you get a commission, that's affiliate marketing, and I even pointed out in my original post that I understand how affiliate marketing opportunities are almost limitless.

    My understanding of CPA is that it's offers like mortgage refinancing, payday advance, **** trials, ringtone leads, etc. that are managed through networks like Hydra or Neverblue or XY7 or MaxBounty. In my experience, the variety of those that are available at any given time are significantly more limited than affiliate opportunities.

    Now, if you are talking about setting up a lead capture of your own and selling those leads to businesses independently, to me that doesn't really fit the definition of CPA, either. That's more of an independent lead brokering business. Which is great, but it's not CPA.

    So, is the definition of CPA that this course operates on wider than what I understand CPA to mean? If so, that explains some of the "fuzzy math" in my mind.
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    • Profile picture of the author psresearch
      I saw on John Chow a mention that Jerry West - a well-known PPC marketer and search engine optimizer walked out on the Vegas seminar.

      Now, the following is not based on the course - so take it with a grain of salt and MAYBE some of these issues are covred in the course - so I wouldn't mind having someone address these issues:

      There are extremely experienced marketer's like Jerry West telling people not to by the Arbitrage Conspiracy product and even told the guys at John Cow: 'Don’t get sucked into the hype. It isn’t real. I was there and I walked out after 40 minutes because the material was very basic.'

      That's interesting - because if they do NOT cover one VITAL aspect of running CPA marketing - and that is keeping track of a huge inventory of CPA offer start and end dates and having an automatic way of starting a new offer when one expires you are going to go completely nuts.

      My business partner and I run CPA offer through a large number of organic sites and we use an open source ad-serving solution called OpenX.org to manage that type of thing - although there are also commercial ad serving services like AdJuggler, AdSpeed, and AdButler to name a few.

      One thing I don't agree with is that selling the course will bring about too much competition for the owners - that was something Charles Heflin from SEO2020 was saying. But the truth is that the amount of viable traffic for CPA offers is just enormous - and even if you use the ONE rudimentary trick of using domains as keywords they "revealed" (um, that trick has been revealed MANY times over the past several years - including by ME about 4 years ago. LOL) there are SO many ways to go about finding them that even in ONE market you could have hundreds of people "playing well" together - and there are man, many markets where CPA offers are findable - PLUS if you really want to you can work out deals with businesses in markets where they are NOT common.

      So in my opinion all of this noise about "If it's so profitable why are they selling it?" is nonsense.

      BUT I would also point out that certain CPA tricks are MUCH harder for people NEWER to PPC to pull off.

      For example - I one ran a test on the "domains as keywords" technique on Adwords and discovered that often the NEWER advertisers are kind of screwed. Here's what I did:

      I had a friend of mine who had advertised minimally on Adwords for about a year put in the EXACT Ad, Exact Offer, and Exact Keywords (match type, etc.) going to the EXACT same landing page (this was direct-linking) and what we discovered was very interesting and should be disheartening for anyone considering buying the the Arbitrage Conspiracy:

      His minimum bids we're often between .50 to $1.00 per click while MINE for the EXACT same set up were between .15 - .30 per click!

      In other words, it appears that Account History has a fairly major impact on bid prices in some (maybe many) cases.

      Now, you can certainly build up a great account history - but that means that you'll probably have to WAIT until you can pull off some of the more profitable tricks such as the one "revealed" in the free Arbitrage Conspiracy training…(I'm not sure why I keep using "revealed" for that domains as keywords trick - it's almost like saying I've just discovered "THE INTERNET").

      So I wouldn't call Arbitrage Conspiracy a scam, but I CANNOT recommend it - especially if you are not already an experienced marketer - and if you ARE then you'd probably know everything in the course from what I'm hearing from people like Jerry West.

      Anyhow, here's some information about why Jerry West doesn't recommend the Arbitrage Conspiracy product:

      Don't Buy The Arbitrage Conspiracy - I Was There In Vegas

      I guess the one thing I would leave you with is - if you STILL plan to buy The Arbitrage Conspiracy system then look for a bonus or bonuses that cover one or all of the following:

      * How to manage a huge volume of CPA offers.
      * How to manage start and end dates of CPA offers.
      * How to build a CPA affiliate "team".
      * Strategies for establishing a high-quality Adwords Account

      Paul Schlegel
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      • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
        Originally Posted by markquinn View Post

        I saw on John Chow a mention that Jerry West - a well-known PPC marketer and search engine optimizer walked out on the Vegas seminar.

        Now, the following is not based on the course - so take it with a grain of salt and MAYBE some of these issues are covred in the course - so I wouldn't mind having someone address these issues:

        There are extremely experienced marketer's like Jerry West telling people not to by the Arbitrage Conspiracy product and even told the guys at John Cow: 'Don’t get sucked into the hype. It isn’t real. I was there and I walked out after 40 minutes because the material was very basic.'

        That's interesting - because if they do NOT cover one VITAL aspect of running CPA marketing - and that is keeping track of a huge inventory of CPA offer start and end dates and having an automatic way of starting a new offer when one expires you are going to go completely nuts.

        My business partner and I run CPA offer through a large number of organic sites and we use an open source ad-serving solution called OpenX.org to manage that type of thing - although there are also commercial ad serving services like AdJuggler, AdSpeed, and AdButler to name a few.

        One thing I don't agree with is that selling the course will bring about too much competition for the owners - that was something Charles Heflin from SEO2020 was saying. But the truth is that the amount of viable traffic for CPA offers is just enormous - and even if you use the ONE rudimentary trick of using domains as keywords they "revealed" (um, that trick has been revealed MANY times over the past several years - including by ME about 4 years ago. LOL) there are SO many ways to go about finding them that even in ONE market you could have hundreds of people "playing well" together - and there are man, many markets where CPA offers are findable - PLUS if you really want to you can work out deals with businesses in markets where they are NOT common.

        So in my opinion all of this noise about "If it's so profitable why are they selling it?" is nonsense.

        BUT I would also point out that certain CPA tricks are MUCH harder for people NEWER to PPC to pull off.

        For example - I one ran a test on the "domains as keywords" technique on Adwords and discovered that often the NEWER advertisers are kind of screwed. Here's what I did:

        I had a friend of mine who had advertised minimally on Adwords for about a year put in the EXACT Ad, Exact Offer, and Exact Keywords (match type, etc.) going to the EXACT same landing page (this was direct-linking) and what we discovered was very interesting and should be disheartening for anyone considering buying the the Arbitrage Conspiracy:

        His minimum bids we're often between .50 to $1.00 per click while MINE for the EXACT same set up were between .15 - .30 per click!

        In other words, it appears that Account History has a fairly major impact on bid prices in some (maybe many) cases.

        Now, you can certainly build up a great account history - but that means that you'll probably have to WAIT until you can pull off some of the more profitable tricks such as the one "revealed" in the free Arbitrage Conspiracy training…(I'm not sure why I keep using "revealed" for that domains as keywords trick - it's almost like saying I've just discovered "THE INTERNET").

        So I wouldn't call Arbitrage Conspiracy a scam, but I CANNOT recommend it - especially if you are not already an experienced marketer - and if you ARE then you'd probably know everything in the course from what I'm hearing from people like Jerry West.

        Anyhow, here's some information about why Jerry West doesn't recommend the Arbitrage Conspiracy product:

        Don't Buy The Arbitrage Conspiracy - I Was There In Vegas

        I guess the one thing I would leave you with is - if you STILL plan to buy The Arbitrage Conspiracy system then look for a bonus or bonuses that cover one or all of the following:

        * How to manage a huge volume of CPA offers.
        * How to manage start and end dates of CPA offers.
        * How to build a CPA affiliate "team".
        * Strategies for establishing a high-quality Adwords Account

        Paul Schlegel
        Hi Paul,

        Jerry was there for 40 Minutes. That is not really a long time. He is releasing his own program instead. If all these people know everything in the course i guess they would be doing it themselves. They would be in the minority.

        I know he is a guru for SEO and affiliate marketing and I don't know if he does 50k a day with PPC so I don't really know what level he is judging it at.

        Like you I use an ad server to manage offers. I don't know how Aymen will teach this but he does mention that he will show people how to track offers so you don't have to rely on the CPA company.

        I posted my comments about Charles somewhere else in here. I think he is way off the mark.

        Your test with ad words seems consistent with speculation about account rank. There are Yahoo and other PPC sources for people to utilize as well in the scaling phase.

        I think many people would learn a thing or two about ppc and CPA from the course based on the quality of the expert (this has been well established now) and the fact that he has done some great results.

        I am sure URLs have been out for awhile but there are still some more tricks like where to harvest keywords and how to get better ROI from optimizing campaigns.
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        • Profile picture of the author psresearch
          Originally Posted by James Schramko View Post

          Hi Paul,

          Jerry was there for 40 Minutes. That is not really a long time. He is releasing his own program instead. If all these people know everything in the course i guess they would be doing it themselves. They would be in the minority.

          I know he is a guru for SEO and affiliate marketing and I don't know if he does 50k a day with PPC so I don't really know what level he is judging it at.

          Like you I use an ad server to manage offers. I don't know how Aymen will teach this but he does mention that he will show people how to track offers so you don't have to rely on the CPA company.

          I posted my comments about Charles somewhere else in here. I think he is way off the mark.

          Your test with ad words seems consistent with speculation about account rank. There are Yahoo and other PPC sources for people to utilize as well in the scaling phase.

          I think many people would learn a thing or two about ppc and CPA from the course based on the quality of the expert (this has been well established now) and the fact that he has done some great results.

          I am sure URLs have been out for awhile but there are still some more tricks like where to harvest keywords and how to get better ROI from optimizing campaigns.
          Thanks James.

          That does address most of the concerns.

          Yes, there are an insane number of ways to harvest keywords - so teaching that
          and how to THINK about finding other ways and automating the harvesting
          and tracking as much as possible is key.
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    • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
      Originally Posted by melanied View Post

      OK, maybe I have the wrong definition in my mind of CPA, then. Because, as I understood it, if you were to bid on every item in the Home Depot catalog, that wouldn't be CPA - that would be affiliate marketing. If they buy something from Home Depot and you get a commission, that's affiliate marketing, and I even pointed out in my original post that I understand how affiliate marketing opportunities are almost limitless.

      My understanding of CPA is that it's offers like mortgage refinancing, payday advance, **** trials, ringtone leads, etc. that are managed through networks like Hydra or Neverblue or XY7 or MaxBounty. In my experience, the variety of those that are available at any given time are significantly more limited than affiliate opportunities.

      Now, if you are talking about setting up a lead capture of your own and selling those leads to businesses independently, to me that doesn't really fit the definition of CPA, either. That's more of an independent lead brokering business. Which is great, but it's not CPA.

      So, is the definition of CPA that this course operates on wider than what I understand CPA to mean? If so, that explains some of the "fuzzy math" in my mind.
      Think about this. lets imagine you have a CPA offer with MaxBounty for Homedepot.

      Now to drive traffic to that offer you have campaigns using PPC to drive traffic directly to the offer.

      To get a lot of traffic you might use every product in Home Depot as your bid terms.

      This is why there is unlimited opportunity to send traffic to CPA offers .

      Using segmentation and creativity with keyword research and then testing it you can dig up great campaigns.

      This answers your question about limited offers. There may not be a lot of offers (there are) but the traffic is the bigger variable.
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      • Originally Posted by James Schramko View Post

        This is why there is unlimited opportunity to send traffic to CPA offers.
        I can't agree with the word "unlimited". And even if there were unlimited opportunity to SEND traffic to CPA offers, there isn't unlimited opportunity to make money from them.
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      • Profile picture of the author psresearch
        Originally Posted by James Schramko View Post

        This answers your question about limited offers. There may not be a lot of offers (there are) but the traffic is the bigger variable.
        Well, there are no LIMITS in my mind because if you're creative you can work with businesses and MAKE them.

        James. You seem to have more information on this course than many here.

        I'd be interested in you addressing some of the concerns I posted above.

        Paul Schlegel
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  • Profile picture of the author borilbogoev
    This guy - from Arbitrage Conspiracy - is really taking as for idiots... I am sure that it is possible to make 100K/day, but I wouldn't pay almost $2000 until I see him making those $100K/day in front of me (screencast video or something...)
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  • Profile picture of the author TimGross
    On a related note, for anyone trying to piece together the puzzle of CPA, if you've purchased membership to the Warrior Private Site, here's an article I wrote called CPA Arbitrage: How I Made 77,395 sales:

    CPA Arbitrage - How I Made 77,395 Sales

    My 2 cents on this discussion is this:

    In order to want to tackle something online, I need an edge. My edge in the above article example was controlling/creating the offers and the ads to get higher response than the competition, which gave me a competitive advantage.

    Without some advantage, if you have 500 people/buyers all trying to promote standard CPA offers using PPC in the same way, the competition for keyword bidding is fierce.

    You need an advantage. With straight PPC advertising driving traffic to straight CPA offers and with essentially a level playing field for everyone trying to succeed at it, it's tough.

    That doesn't mean there aren't people doing who aren't wildly successful, but they can't reveal their exact offers they're promoting or they'll be immediately knocked off by people copying them, so it's always up to you to experiment to find your own workable niche/offer... The question is how much money it costs before you stumble on to something that's profitable for you.
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    • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
      Originally Posted by TimGross View Post

      On a related note, for anyone trying to piece together the puzzle of CPA, if you've purchased membership to the Warrior Private Site, here's an article I wrote called CPA Arbitrage: How I Made 77,395 sales:

      CPA Arbitrage - How I Made 77,395 Sales

      My 2 cents on this discussion is this:

      In order to want to tackle something online, I need an edge. My edge in the above article example was controlling/creating the offers and the ads to get higher response than the competition, which gave me a competitive advantage.

      Without some advantage, if you have 500 people/buyers all trying to promote standard CPA offers using PPC in the same way, the competition for keyword bidding is fierce.

      You need an advantage. With straight PPC advertising driving traffic to straight CPA offers and with essentially a level playing field for everyone trying to succeed at it, it's tough.

      That doesn't mean there aren't people doing who aren't wildly successful, but they can't reveal their exact offers they're promoting or they'll be immediately knocked off by people copying them, so it's always up to you to experiment to find your own workable niche/offer... The question is how much money it costs before you stumble on to something that's profitable for you.
      That is great info. I had a wonderful campaign for a highly contested space but I did find that edge. The creative angle is usually a winner.
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    • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
      Originally Posted by melanied View Post

      The thing that I don't quite understand is this - there are not an unlimited supply of CPA offers floating around at any given time like there are affiliate products.

      Why would I want to jump into competing with all of the other students of this course over the few hundred CPA offers available at any given time?
      The more competition, the more money to be made.

      Would you want to go into a market with prospects that dont have money to buy what you're selling? Thats pointless.

      Or do you want to go to a market where theres plenty of money being thrown around?

      You just need to learn how to deal with competition, some people are afraid of it, and some look for it


      Originally Posted by melanied View Post

      OK, maybe I have the wrong definition in my mind of CPA, then. Because, as I understood it, if you were to bid on every item in the Home Depot catalog, that wouldn't be CPA - that would be affiliate marketing. If they buy something from Home Depot and you get a commission, that's affiliate marketing, and I even pointed out in my original post that I understand how affiliate marketing opportunities are almost limitless.
      CPA is cost per acquisition. You get a lead for an offer- you get paid, its that simple and its lead generation. Some people do it threw affiliate networks and some people will go straight to a company and do it.

      CPA is affiliate marketing. Just because someone doesn't have to purchase something, doesn't mean its not "affiliate marketing".

      Originally Posted by melanied View Post

      My understanding of CPA is that it's offers like mortgage refinancing, payday advance, **** trials, ringtone leads, etc. that are managed through networks like Hydra or Neverblue or XY7 or MaxBounty. In my experience, the variety of those that are available at any given time are significantly more limited than affiliate opportunities.
      Those are examples of CPA. And it IS affiliate opportunities. Its a different model of affiliate marketing. Do you think you could convert more people if they had to fill in some quick info, or having to convert someone to buy a product?

      Since you don't sell anything, CPA (lead gen.) is very lucrative. CPA is lead gen. and lead gen is lots, and lots, and lots, of money and has been around longer than the internet.

      Originally Posted by melanied View Post

      Now, if you are talking about setting up a lead capture of your own and selling those leads to businesses independently, to me that doesn't really fit the definition of CPA, either. That's more of an independent lead brokering business. Which is great, but it's not CPA.

      So, is the definition of CPA that this course operates on wider than what I understand CPA to mean? If so, that explains some of the "fuzzy math" in my mind.
      If you're working with a company (affiliate) and you're doing advertising and marketing for them to capture leads- HOW is that not affiliate marketing? Same tree, different branch.


      Originally Posted by faxinator View Post

      I can't agree with the word "unlimited". And even if there were unlimited opportunity to SEND traffic to CPA offers, there isn't unlimited opportunity to make money from them.
      Your WEALTH is only limited by your MIND. Unlimited mind = unlimited wealth. Now, making 100k a day, to me, would be considered unlimited wealth (financial wise). A lot less would be considered "unlimited" wealth for me@!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jon Alexander
    If you want to know if this is B.S or not, ask the Masked Guru. I'm told he was there.
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    • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
      Originally Posted by Jon Alexander View Post

      If you want to know if this is B.S or not, ask the Masked Guru. I'm told he was there.
      doesn't he usually create short reviews of products? I haven't seen anything yet..
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Deegan
    A few things about the AC. These may have been mentioned but I'm not sure since I did not read every post.

    1. 100k in a single day I hear was there best day not what they make on avg.

    2. I hear their actual profitable campaign ROI avg's between 20-35%

    The guys are starting there own cpa network so releasing the product is pretty smart.

    P.S. These guys were students of the Pay Per Click Formula and from what I hear there is alot of overlap. Also you can get the PPCF for like $500 for those interested in PPC to CPA who don't want to shell out 2 grand.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alice Seba
    I never got to the math. I've been scratching my head trying to figure out where the "conspiracy" is.
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  • Make sure you read all of the comments on Jerry's post. He adds more information there as well. Perhaps the real conspiracy behind "Arbitrage Conspiracy" is that it's over-hyped and over-valued.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bearded
    A couple points.

    To the people who can't understand why someone would've paid $10k for the seminar...

    It's not about the material. $10k is worth it network with EVERY MAJOR GURU in the industry. They were ALL there. (pretty much, except for Frank, and John Reese)

    To the person who asked about what the major CPA networks are, here are some: Azoogle, Affiliate.com, Copeac, Neverblue, Incentaclick, Rocketprofit.

    There are a TON of networks for a reason. They're making money hand over fist, and so are a LOT of affiliates.

    People have barely cracked the surface of the available traffic that could be profitable for CPA networks. A lot of the tactics in this course are nothing new.

    What I'm excited about is the information on scaling, and systemizing, so that I can take one of my campaigns making $25 or $50 or $100 a day, and scale it up to 10x or 100x the return.

    Say what you will about these guys, but as was stated, they were PPC/PPV Formula students, and Gauher sent out an email where he backed up their claims, because he was getting 2% referral checks on their HUGE income from some of the networks.

    Joe
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    • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
      Originally Posted by Bearded View Post

      It's not about the material. $10k is worth it network with EVERY MAJOR GURU in the industry. They were ALL there. (pretty much, except for Frank, and John Reese)
      So true. Some people don't understand the power of networking.

      A very successful entrepreneur said-

      "You're NET-WORTH is only as big as your NETWORK"

      He's not lying!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan Mizel
    Re: CJ's revenues...

    CJ is part of ValueClick, and is expected to contribute nearly $100 million dollars to their bottom line this year (ValueClick's total revenue is about $650 million).

    And remember, that $100 million is just their take, they are responsible for $200 - $300 million of commissions and well over a billion dollars in sales.

    Jonathan
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  • Profile picture of the author melanied
    Those responses clear up some of the mystery in my mind, I suppose. I've moved from "skeptical" to "no opinion."
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  • Profile picture of the author Big Al
    Hiya

    I think this post kinda sums up what Chris Rempel was saying...

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...tml#post307886

    That's some job satisfaction in abundance right there...

    Alan
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  • Profile picture of the author webwise66
    When you make as much money as the Arbitrage people claim (and it's probably true), you really really have to know what you're doing. They can afford to pay a whole lot of people to re-search and dig and tunnel and work out the maths. It seems more like gambling to me. You're gambling on how many people are going to click on your ad so you can recover the cost of your advertising on the top keywords. So you make $6000 but invest $4000. OK it's a profit but are you willing to take the chance?
    I'll use other ways to make money before I tackle that baby.
    Learn the basics, a lot of them are free.
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  • According to a thread in another Warrior Forum, the e-mails from the Arbitrage support desk says they are being slammed with refund requests and those seeking refunds need to be patient.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by faxinator View Post

      According to a thread in another Warrior Forum, the e-mails from the Arbitrage support desk says they are being slammed with refund requests and those seeking refunds need to be patient.
      Actually, it didn't say refund requests. It said support requests. The person who posted the email was looking for a refund. That doesn't mean that all support requests were for refunds.

      That said, I wouldn't be shocked if they're getting more refund requests than the typical launch.
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      • Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

        Actually, it didn't say refund requests. It said support requests. The person who posted the email was looking for a refund. That doesn't mean that all support requests were for refunds.
        Ok, thanks for the clarification. I read what the other poster had put in his post, which was:

        We are working through our support requests and will refund your account as soon as possible. Please bear with us as we are receiving an enormus amount of requests. We will get your refund processed.

        Arbitrage Customer Support
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  • Profile picture of the author dsiomtw
    I think tons of people are asking for refunds because they haven't even launched the product yet. Once you pay you don't get jack squat. The real "training" doesn't begin until January according to their latest email. Supposedly they are sending out some basic "get started" stuff sooner than that, but as of yet anyone who has paid their $1997 hasn't gotten anything. The product probably doesn't even exist yet. The whole thing stinks and I'm sure it's blowing up in their faces.

    I'm just shocked at all the big name gurus that staked their reputations on this load of crap launch.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    The 100K conference isn't what caught in my mind - what I wonder about is why anyone who can already make money at a rate that they can afford to spring 10 Gs at a one day conference would even need to attend a money making conference? What kind of bucks is a person with that kind of cash to throw around already making? How much money do people need to be happy anymore?
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    • Profile picture of the author lovecostarica
      The Arbitrage Conspiracy free report tells you, in general terms, that you can pay for PPC (pay per click, like Google AdWords) to promote your affiliate landing pages offered by CPA (Cost per Acquisition) Companies, and the "arbitrage" part comes from the difference between your investment (what you had to spend in PPC) and your prize (what the CPA companies pay you for the action made by the visitor you sent).

      Then, the idea is that if you find a successful combination (PPC --> CPA) then you would add up some leverage, investing more and more into that profitable one.

      I would have loved to buy the course, because it is apparently proved that this guy makes over between $50K and $100K every day, so he must really know what he's doing. The price of the full 12 week course is $1997.

      You can get the free report at arbitrageconspiracy.eu
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      • Profile picture of the author Noah Fleming
        Originally Posted by lovecostarica View Post

        The Arbitrage Conspiracy free report tells you, in general terms, that you can pay for PPC (pay per click, like Google AdWords) to promote your affiliate landing pages offered by CPA (Cost per Acquisition) Companies, and the "arbitrage" part comes from the difference between your investment (what you had to spend in PPC) and your prize (what the CPA companies pay you for the action made by the visitor you sent).

        Then, the idea is that if you find a successful combination (PPC --> CPA) then you would add up some leverage, investing more and more into that profitable one.

        I would have loved to buy the course, because it is apparently proved that this guy makes over between $50K and $100K every day, so he must really know what he's doing. The price of the full 12 week course is $1997.

        You can get the free report at arbitrageconspiracy.eu

        Nothing like the 3 week late spammer.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      What kind of bucks is a person with that kind of cash to throw around already making?

      How much money do people need to be happy anymore?
      Perhaps a sum = the amount of self righteousness those who question the happines of others need to feel.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ian Seth
    The way i see it Aymen had the perfect plan. He invites some of the top Gurus, which most of them are in the same Mastermind group with each other. then he puts a price tag for some of the unknown guys. Then all the gurus promote as affiliates to their lists cashing in on a 2k product commissions. Aymen is cool because sudenly everybody is talking about him. The gurus get their commissions and possibly learned something they didn't know. It's just business! I really don't think they are lying but it's a business. They want to help people and they want to get rich doing it.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    >>>
    I was reading the sales letter for the Arbitrage Conspiracy today. The guy claims to make 50k to 100k per day
    >>>

    thats where i stopped reading and burst out in BIG LAUGH.

    That "dude" certainly needs to sell his product, otherwise, how could he make a living with only 100k/day. I feel sorry for him.

    Also..the title "Arbitrage Conspiracy" implies already junk of the uttermost "IM semi scam"- garbage category...and i dont even need/want to see the sales page and for sure not the product. The title is enough to give me that impression, and the "100k/day" claim ist just the topping on that pile of ****
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  • Profile picture of the author Marian Berghes
    GeorgR you might think that since your mind probably cant concieve that amount of success. But...let me ask you something

    Why do people like Trump, Gates etc... held private high ticket seminars at some point in their life?
    A few years ago Trump invited some big business owners from the Dubai area to a seminar to "teach" them some of his marketing strategies and stuff...the seminar was not made public almost at all, and it costed 80.000$ per seat.

    Now...why would Trump ask that amount of money eh? Since he does like what $1mil/day or something?

    There are ppl in the adult industry that make MUCH more than that per day...now why would you not believe that he could make 100k/day?

    Another thing...I don't think business men like Eben Pagan and Filsaime would risk their reputation to promote some scam or something....
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
    There are at least two challenges to overcome for anyone selling something like this. From the readers point of view:

    1. Am I being told the truth here?
    2. If it is the truth, can I do it too if I buy the course?

    It seems like this one is stuck on #1 in many minds. Even if something is true, not everyone will believe. Heck , we still have those who think the Apollo moon program was a hoax and that the world is flat.

    I believe in Eban, Mike Filisaime, Frank Kern, etc. and that they are making big money. Can I do it with their courses? That is a whole nother story. Just because I buy a book on flying doesn't mean I can pilot Air Force One.
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    • Profile picture of the author tomw
      Originally Posted by Scott Ames View Post

      Heck, we still have those who think the Apollo moon program was a hoax and that the world is flat.
      The world clearly isn't flat. As for the authenticity of the Apollo mission, I think it's certainly in Capricorn One territory

      Why is it so hard for so many here to believe that someone can pay, say, $50G on direct advertising and double his money in a day? I just don't understand all of the kerfuffle. Its exactly the same thing that so many here and everywhere else are doing everyday...only scaled. It's scaled up in relation to many internet marketers' activities, but also, scaled down in relation to the daily adspend of countless household name brands in mainstream vertical markets.

      Of course it is possible. Case closed. Conspiracy over.

      Thomas
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  • Profile picture of the author MaryT
    How much profits they make per day?
    And how much did they invest per day?
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  • The biggest conspiracy is that there is no conspiracy.
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  • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
    Poeple who trade don't do it for the money. They LOVE trading.
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  • Profile picture of the author kennethtang
    They claim what they're claiming and charge what they're charging so that people will get curious, annoyed, peeved, admiring, etc., etc., enough so that they'd grumble, complain, mumble, lash out, etc., etc., on public forums so that lots more people would be talking, lashing, grumbling, etc., etc., about them so that even more people....

    Hehehe.
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