A very large company goofed - forgot to register domain name for new product. What to do, what to do

by 120 replies
146
OOPS!

Somebody forgot to tell someone in their marketing/web
department to register the domain name for their new
product that will be launching nationwide this spring/summer.

I just happened to see an article snippet of some news
that was posted earlier today and when I saw the name
of their new product, I thought... "I wonder if the .com
is available?"

I was quite shocked that it was to say the least. I quickly
did some research and found that I may have stuck a
little gold. Their main product has over 200,000 [exact]
searches per month.

I just snagged the domain name.

Some searching around at their other products shows
that they did register the names and have them forwarded
to their product pages. Looks like someone forgot this
important step.

Just in case you are wondering - because it was the
first thing that came to my mind...

There is no way that this name is trademarked because
I found a couple of lesser known companies/products
that also use this name.

However, when the company officially launches this
product, it will be all over TV, in magazines, talked
about on TV, you name it. They will pour millions into
marketing this new drink.

So... what should I do with the domain?

Sit on it and know that they will be contacting me at
some point soon with an offer?

Build up a quick site, do some SEO, get a bunch of
backlinks and get the site to #1 before the drink
launches and everyone is searching for it?

Put it up for sale on a popular domain selling site?

Something else?

What would you do?
#main internet marketing discussion forum #company #domain #forgot #goofed #large #product #register
  • Forget it.
    • [1] reply
    • LOL - This is no different than the millions of
      Amazon websites/affiliates targeting specific
      products, item numbers, etc. in their domain.
      And no different using domain name tools to
      get web 2.0 site ideas that combine two words.
      These are two very common words.

      KatyaSenina, the domain is simply two simple words.
      Like tree and house. Or spring and water. 100%
      positive that it is not trademarked. Just two
      random words - and searching around the words
      in quotes, the words are used a lot. A TON of
      people use the two words for their forum names,
      usernames, etc. Also using the two in recipes
      I just found. Huh.

      Worst case, it is a cool 'web 2.0' type name that
      I'm sure I can find a use for someday.
      • [3] replies
  • Makes me wonder why you snagged the domain name in the first place?

    Why would you bother doing SEO. Ok let's say it ranks and thousands will be searching for it... What will the website lead prospects to anyway?:confused:

    Of course you can always wait till they contact you and ask them for cash. But that's of course if you're 100% sure the brand isn't trademarked otherwise you've got yourself a lawsuit right there. Be sure to check this.
  • Forget it.
  • You can trademark something, but if you don't do it right it doesn't mean anything.

    There are people that buy domain names thinking they will be worth something and the companies will contact them with an offer. Buying a domain name before a company does isn't scummy, it's called "smarts". There was a guy in Michigan that bought a communications domain name and wound up making under a million dollars on it because one of the large companies wanted it so they made him an offer and he took it.

    If I know a product is being released and I buy a domain name on it, you have to be working on the inside in order to know this information I assume, and unless your bound by a contract with that company then it's legal to do.
  • People are so paranoid about lawsuits. I have one every month, and haven't lost! LOL. You can own a domain name, even if it has a trademark. You can't trademark a word...if it is a domain just sitting there, hold on to it, it is ridiculous to say you will have a lawsuit on your hands. You can have it parked... now, you can't compete with them and use it to talk bad about the product, or link to their competitors. You CAN park the domain, or put a basic page up with your email, and not have to worry about anything, except the price for when they contact you.
    • [3] replies
    • A lawsuit every month? Either you are doing something that
      you should be doing - or you are doing something that others
      had wished they were doing!
      • [1] reply
    • Banned
      It's a little different when you're the one doing the suing, as you confirmed in another post. You might feel differently if you were getting sued once a month instead of the other way around. Basically, without meaning to, you've shown why people are paranoid about getting sued.
    • You're right - a lot will depend on how you use the domain, and in addition to that researching the corporation in question gives you some background history as to whether they're litigation happy, or not.
  • Floyd, thanks for the PM. Apology accepted.

    995subglasses... 100% agreed. I have been at this
    game since 1999, so believe me I am careful.
    Heck, I received my fair share of letters over the
    years to transfer a domain name or the wonderful
    emails from eBay many years ago to just let the
    domain names I purchased expire.

    The rewards are high for a $10 risk. The story
    you mention above is one that has happened
    thousands of times over the years.

    Maybe I'm weird, but buying a few domain names
    during my 'wind down time' at night is what I like
    to do - and when I find a potential winner like this
    that *could* have a five or six-figure payday, I
    get excited.

    I just sold about 30 domain names the other day.
    Not to plug one of my WSO's, but I talk about one
    of the strategies I use that I don't see anyone else
    doing.

    I'm far from a full-time domainer - I'm a full-time
    marketer... but I've always had a love for domains...
    or anything you can buy for $10 and sell for thousands
    for that matter LOL!
  • You always have to do the research. In fact,
    did you know that the happy birthday song is
    owned by Time Warner?

    Boing Boing: Help rat on people who sing Happy Birthday!

    I always send them my $1.82 check each time
    that I sing it to my friends... do you?
    • [1] reply
    • No, but I make Mozart's descendants richer whenever I sing
      "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star"

      Dr.Mani
  • Here's the kicker...if you registered the domain before they announced they were going to release a product, and they didn't have the foresight to register the domain before you...it's their bad. However, if you registered a domain that could reasonably be thought to have a link with the announced product after they announced, that is called mala-fide aka...bad faith on your part.

    Regardless as to whether or not you contact them to sell the domain (I would suggest against it), they'll probably come after it. And as someone who speaks from personal experience in this type of stuff...it's a huge time and dollar suck. You're looking at spending at least $4500 just to have a domain hearing through WIPO or another arbitration company.

    If you want some personal inside information on this, send me a PM and I'll hook you up, but man...be careful. There are some VERY SPECIFIC things you can and can't do.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • [quote=Will Perkins;3596110][/B]



      Definitely do NOT contact them. You're right about that. I don't even recommend putting up a website for it.... Just park the thing, and they can't do anything about it.
  • I've been in this exact situation and it worked out in my favor. So here's the deal:
    If the name is not trademarked, you're fine. Don't get scared and just "forget it". Depending on the company, they might try to scare you into giving the domain up. Don't do it. They will pay you for it if you stand your ground due to the fact that it would cost them more to try and sue you. Be just as strong with your words as them, because they aren't internet marketers, they're a company who happens to utilize the internet as a way of marketing. Trust that they would rather give you a couple thousand dollars for the domain.

    Im not saying this is some blueprint that will work for your situation, but it did for mine (the domain was a seafood/fresh/ocean type name). It also wouldn't hurt to throw up a wordpress blog related to the domain name that has nothing to do with their product.

    I've been threatened to get sued by plenty of people/companies even to the point where I get letters personally delivered to the door etc and let me tell you, I've never been sued and never had it not work out in my favor. Just don't back down until you absolutely have to.
  • Simple
    I would backorder the domain hire a hit man to take you out, wait to it expires then it is mine.

    Or

    Hack you and transfer the name to myself, then hire someone on fiverr to make me a fake statement saying I bought it.

    Just the two easy ways off the top of my head...

    I could have lawyers and PI's shove so much up your asre that you will pay me to take the name off your hands.

    Hope that helps

    Richard
    • [1] reply
    • And I can sue you for hurting my feelings. LOL. Fox wouldn't win. Having a parked domain, they could not sue over and win.

      Well, if people pay up when they get a service, there is nothing to worry about! But in reality, if you buy a domain name, and it is just parked, there are no grounds for them to sue you, and you lose without your constitution rights being violated.

      I don't see such a case... That would not be trademark infringement. That is unconstitutional, and the retaliation could be so huge it would bankrupt them. Show proof of that case, I think you just heard from someone else who is full of ****.

      If they had an ad for jaguar cars, or if they somehow used the logo, then it is copyright infringement.

      Guys... this isn't complicated, it isn't hard to understand. If you buy venus.com venus williams can't sue you over it. If you buy mercury.com you can't be sued over it, just because it is a car, doesn't mean the word is trademarked. You just can't talk about the product, or have any pictures, or promote to affiliates. You can talk about the planet and use information about the planet, but not the car.

      If you have a parked domain... nothing can happen, UNLESS you talk to THEM and pitch them the domain. THAT is something you can't do.

      You can park all "trademarked" domains you want, and no company would even attempt to sue you. I had the domain STLnews. Saint Louis News, and received offers from all the local news stations. Now having a domain that would have been, STLnewschannel4.com then it is obvious what I was doing, and could very well lose.

      If you have a domain that is, buyproductname.com then you can lose. If you have a domain that is trademarked but there is other information, for example, mercury.com if I made it about the planet mercury, Buick would not be able to sue me over it.
  • 1. If those companies or products are not in the same industry, the tradmark may still be held in another business area.

    2. If they ARE in the same industry, the large company may be in legal negotiations with those lesser-known companies to acquire exclusive trademark rights.

    3. If the large company WANTS the trademark, the way trademark works is that they are REQUIRED to drop on you liike a tonne of bricks and demand you give them the domain.

    This is a Bad Idea. Contact the company and offer to GIVE them the domain.
  • For someone who registers domains with trademarks in them, and even puts up information about said trademark, I've never had an issue. In fact, I typically sell the domain to the company for about $1,000. Them buying the domain from me at that price is cheaper and faster than sending their lawyers after me, proceedings, etc.
  • Obviously you has in mind a way to make money from this. That is the way I see it. You are hoping that the company will offer you a lot of money.
    I also think it could be trademarked and it will be useless to you. However saying that if it is not trademarked and they want that name you many make money.
  • Correction, Area 51 is in Nevada. North of Las Vegas.
  • So, what is this domain name? You already own
    it so what's the harm in revealing it?

    Tsnyder
  • Actually, it's not a lawsuit you have to be worried about, at least with regard to the domain name. The dispute process is fairly established, and is called a UDRP (Uniform Domain-Name Dispute-Resolution Policy - Uniform Domain-Name Dispute-Resolution Policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

    There's no courtroom drama, but rather an appointed group from ICANN who decide whether or not you get to keep the name. They often rule in favor of big corporations, and quite a number of cases settle with the domain holder turning the name over voluntarily before the hearing because of that, as well as the high fees ($2k - $3k).

    Once they win the UDRP, *then* they file a lawsuit against you, and since it's a civil matter and the burden of proof is low, they use the evidence from the UDRP hearing to literally bury you in court and extract a judgement, which always includes legal fees. Their reasoning is that the official body in charge of the matter (ICANN) said you were wrong, and to a judge who may be new to Domain law, they usually agree.

    If it's not a TM, you are probably fine, but you may still need to defend yourself, which aint cheap.

    What to do with the name? Park it and make damn sure none of the ads on the page are for the company or it's affiliates. Famous domainer Frank Schilling lost a UDRP for the very generic ChiliiBeans.com a few years ago (Frank Schilling Loses loses generic name on aweful UDRP decision).

    It's worth noting that usage, including how you park or develop, have a lot to do with the way ICANN will see you.

    Careful.
    • [ 2 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Most intelligent response here Johnathan. I saw a lot of misinformation in this thread. If you're wondering YouTube did a big crackdown I think about two years ago, don't remember exactly, on a crapton of domains. You will lose your domain and if you don't give it up before it escalates you will pay their legal fees as well.

      Of course there's always the chance that they don't have the motivation to pursue you.

  • Be careful. Really careful.
  • Man, this thread is giving me a headache. Meaning, at least you can sleep at night, if you stay away from trademarked stuff. I think I would freak out if I was in OP's position.
    • [1] reply
    • Yes, unless you have very deep pocket, don't mind the legal
      hassles, and... I guess enjoy the fights, I'd wouldn't go anywhere
      near anyones trademark.

      Any you'd be surprised at what can be trademarked.

      I once did an interview for a friend who frequently ran
      specials on his site. He used the term "today's special offer"
      on his page... I think it was a banner, and I received a0
      "cease and desist" letter from a popular television shopping
      network's lawyers because they saw their trademarked term
      on the page and mistakenly thought it was mine.

      I thought it was funny, and I do enjoy competitions, I just
      don't relish wasting a lot of time sitting in court fighting a
      losing battle

      Willie
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
  • So, basically it comes down to this:

    Is it worth haggling with the company, if they come wanting the domain, to sell the domain for a profit, in my case an average of $1k? Is an $8 investment worth going for to return possibly several hundred dollars back?

    You're going to receive a nice little letter from the company before any UDRP process begins. This is when you choose to either forfeit the domain, or try to haggle first. If the haggling doesn't work, forfeit the domain prior to UDRP proceedings.
    • [1] reply
    • Register, register, register...I have been in the situation where i owned the domain but others owned the trademark.

      Step 1. You receive Cease and desist order

      Step.2 You call their lawyer and say..."Let's work this out for the benefit of both Parties."

      Step 3. You walk away with $3K - $8K because that's how much it would have costed them to get it from you anyways in fees and aggravation.

      ...Or you can just be a nice guy and buy it for them (I've done that too)

      You Decide.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Legal issues aside...

    How do you feel about deliberately capitalizing on someone else's honest mistake to line your own pockets?

    It's different if you just register the domain and someone wants to buy it off you. But you've admitted you have every intention of screwing the company over for your own personal gain.

    Legally, you may be okay - I can't comment on that as I'm not a lawyer.

    But I do believe (in a roundabout way) in Karma, and if you make your living deliberately screwing other people over, it WILL come back to bite you.

    So, if it were me, I wouldn't have registered it in the first place. Some people would call that leaving money on the table.

    I call it being able to look at myself in the mirror.

    -Daniel
    • [ 2 ] Thanks
    • [2] replies
    • [DELETED]

    • Daniel makes a really good point.

      In a case like this where someone is or may be making money by being legally right, but socially or ethically "challenged", it's too bad that the same amount of time isn't being used on creating value for people. It's kind of like those patent troll companies that have some intellectual property, but they keep it to themselves until other entities create value and bring some great services to people, then the troll pops up years later and says "AHA, I caught you sleeping...now pay me!"

      Our world would be a much better (and wealthier) place if everyone would work on creating things and help people by offering those things of value rather than ankle biting...legal or not.



    • That's a very honourable answer Daniel, if there were more people like you the world would be a better place, but I think a lot of people, especially those who were a bit skint, would not think twice at the thought of making a tidy sum for 30 seconds work and £7.47
  • There are many shades of gray here, from deliberate trademark infringement of a well known brand down to a common phrase that may only be trademarked within a certain context.

    And many people make money with these names, and park them and put up sites and blogs and Amazon stores and Adsense and forward them to lead gen offers and all sorts of other stuff, even sell them to the trademark holder.

    A majority of the time, the domain owner will not get a cease and desist or anything at all because the company doesn't realize their Mark is being compromised. In other words, you aren't likely to get caught, and if you do, you can always play hardball or just give up he name.

    But some companies are *very* active about protecting their trademarks and dictating how they are used, and regularly search for violations, even picking specific fights. When a company's legal team tells the CEO that their trademarks are being violated online, the CEO tells them to "get the *******s."

    I'm not saying this isn't a way to make money, just that it's not a scalable business with long-term potential.

    Jonathan

    PS: Remember that now the Department of Homeland Security can also "seize" your domain under the new anti-counterfeit law. It's not much of a stretch to see that applying to people with "counterfeit" trademarks.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • My apologies if this has already been brought up and I missed it...and this is not legal advice.

      "Intent" means a lot in a situation like this.

      If you come on the internet and say something along these lines...

      You've pretty much laid out a case for the other party.

      Google indexes and caches these threads, and the atty's for the plaintiff if you are sued will require a deposition under oath that could easily uncover this thread during the 'discovery' phase.

      Just food for thought...

      ~Bill
      • [ 4 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
  • Its called cybersquatting and you just lost the money you spent on the domain name. They will make you transfer the name to them or you get sued.
  • wish you the best of luck with it, whatever happens!
  • I once saw a company register a generic-type
    domain for their business. However, they only
    registered the .net version and not the .com.
    The .com was available, so I registered it.

    I put up a Domain For Sale site using the domain
    name and listed several things that could be done
    with the domain.

    I had no offers.

    But at around the 22nd month of owning the
    domain, guess who comes knocking at my eMail
    expressing to pay my asking price for the domain?

    LastWarrior

    P.S. "Here's an idea: Create a simple site selling
    the domain and have listed the various things that
    could be done with the site. Then contact them and
    ask if they are interested in buying. Offer it to them
    lower than your asking price at the domain."
    • [2] replies
    • Maybe I am missing something here...
      but how are domain services able to sell a domain name that is supposedly trademarked in the first place?
      Wouldn't the burden of blame be on them?

      If I was selling counterfeit watches out of a car trunk...you think the cops and the judge would be arresting the buyers?

      A lot of what is being said here is conjecture at best.
      Even if you are a lawyer, it doesn't mean much.
      A judge and/or jury has the final say.
    • That might work for some, but I wouldn't really do that. I would put up a blank page with your email listed, thats all. If they know right off the bat you're interested in selling it, then you are more likely to have legal issues. I would also never contact them.
  • Really? Seems at ends with the link that was posted.

    Richard actually posted a precedent and backed his post up with, y'know, facts.

    All you've done is rant and rave about how you're right and everyone else is wrong.

    Instead of going on a tirade, maybe you should link to some precedents or the actual letter of the law, instead of acting like a spoiled five year old.

    -Daniel

    P.S. Should I listen to the guy who acts professional... shows courtesy... and actually posts a link PROVING what he's saying?

    Or some internet troll who acts like he's twelve years old and won't even put his real name to his posts?

    Decisions, decisions...
    • [2] replies
    • Daniel,

      Don't expect too much from this forum.

      Jake Gray
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • Honestly, I don't care who you listen to... at the end of the day, what anyone HERE thinks of me, is not an issue. I'll continue to make my money.

      No link that has been posted, means anything to what I am saying. I have never once in this thread said ANYTHING to buy a domain with a product model number, and profit off of the company itself. If you read what I have been saying, you will realize that.

      The truth is, if you buy a domain and it happens to be a trademark, you are not legally responsible, if you are parking the domain!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is no case there. How can anyone even argue that?
  • This is stupid advice, and dead wrong.

    Have you not been reading this thread? Do you not understand how many names have been lost in WIPO disputes because the name was parked? Do you even know what WIPO is?

    Understand that domains are not "owned" but licensed through your registrar by ICANN and they can take the name away from you whenever they want. Happens all the time and it's about to get much more common: WIPO To Enter The Domain Seizure/Take Down Business? | The Domains

    And don't forget over 80,000 domains have already been seized by Homeland Security. Don't know how tough you are, but I wouldn't mess around with those guys.

    Be very careful with this stuff. Things are changing quickly in the Intellectual Property game, and corporate interests are coming out swinging because they are sick and tired of dealing with this crap.
    • [1] reply

    • J.Mizel, I know you are a very experienced marketer.

      So perhaps you can answer my question...if you would be so kind.


      How can the registrars rent out domain names if they are trademarked?
      Why isn't the "burden" of blame on them?

      If they are so highly regulated, why isn't it stopped at their end.

      Seems like a lot of naive people are takin it in the shorts because of ambiguity.


      Jim
      • [2] replies
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  • Or they will just register a different domain name,.. and not bother with you. That's what BMW does!
  • I be missing something here but comments are made that you should not use a trademarked name in any part of domain and then profit from their product.Yet how many sites are made and sold daily which contain trademarked names as part of domain with content bearing the trademarks product.
    One other note where I live we had an everyday guy trademark a name a name of which the city used(street name)local hotels used and a Casino used so he wrote them all letters saying to remove his trademark name well it would cost them big bucks so they refused in the end he now owns the trademark and receives huge royalties and the 2 name trademark is a simple one could be used by anyone anywhere."fallsview"Google it.
    • [1] reply
    • Probaly a similar proportion as drivers who speed and don't get caught right away. Or similar to the proprportion of people who don't get caught violating copyright right away. It's just a matter of time.
  • Your domain name only has to *sound* like a trademark to arouse the curiosity of the trademark holder...

    Microsoft vs. MikeRoweSoft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    • [1] reply
    • hmmmm gotta love teh power of money and what it can do to these big corporations.

      That was an intresting read. My friend lost his sly t shirt business over here from the same thing. Company in china with same name got him. $15k a month down to zero. It can happen i guess.
  • When that business launches there product you can
    see if they have an affiliate program...signup and
    you could be making some serious autopilot commission off
    there marketing.

    Also you could receive a big pay day if they contact you
    about the domain....A quick high six-figures plus.
    • [2] replies
    • Not to burst your bubble, but some companies' (especially big ones) reseller or
      affiliate programs specifically don't allow domains bearing their trademarks.

      While the OP could receive a big pay day, he also could get an administrative
      dispute (UDRP) or a lawsuit. Anything's possible.
    • Whew!

      Wow - this thread has taken a life of its own. I have
      been sitting back, reading the comments, and some
      downright floor me. However, lots of good info here
      mixed in with some opinions. At the end of the day,
      the domain name that I have is not trademarked.

      I sleep very well at night - I have nothing to worry
      about with this domain name. Guys, it is not like I
      registered microsoftsoftware.com or ebayauctions.com
      or anything like that. Those who have been in this
      game for awhile, some of commented on the post,
      know this game. You choose your battles - and take
      the safe route to cover your bases.

      It's not an easy thing to do - I get lucky maybe once
      a year to find a domain like this.

      Although, I did pick up a domain yesterday (that is
      far from as valuable as this domain) that is the
      main "niche keyword" exact .com. Right now there
      is very little traffic, however, there is a product
      that is coming out soon that I will be able to promote.
      The product was shown at a fair recently and totally
      sold out in an hour and they have months of back
      orders... a hungry rabid buyers niche in the making.
      It's like watching a baby being born.

      At the end of the day - sometimes I pick up good
      names, other times they are junk and I let them
      expire. I won't go into my full plan here (this is
      not a business for me, this is a hobby), but if you
      read between the lines, you can easily get into the
      game of picking up names that you *think* are
      going to become exact search phrases in the
      near future.

      One last example... I picked up 25+ domain names
      that I feel will be 20K plus a month exact search
      terms within the next year each. A couple could
      get to 100K plus a month. I do not see why not.
      The trends are already starting to explode and
      big players are just now getting into the market,
      including a recent story (yesterday) about Google
      jumping into the niche. I won't go into all the details
      of this niche because it is so crazy wide open and
      I'll be launching a ton of sites (instead of just flipping
      the domains) and within a year or so when everything
      really spikes, sell the entire network - hopefully for
      well into the six figures... or more. All I will say
      about this niche is three letters and let you do your
      own research.... NFC.

      No affiliate program - and never will be. Worst case I can
      sell related products via Amazon.

      One last thing I will add is this...

      I just did some additional searching on the words used in
      this domain using quotes and digging deeper in Google.

      I found a few pages that talk about this exactly - dating
      back to old farmer's books from the 1800's.

      In some ways, it is a long lost recipe that the world
      forgot about as time went on. Huh.

      Maybe worst case, I can launch a recipe book about
      this and sell it on ClickBank.

      At the end of the day, I have a strange hobby at night.
      Once work is finished for the day, I do my normal "idea
      generation" searches online. One idea always leads to
      the next and before I know it, I have a list of at least
      a small handful of domains to research more.

      OK - one last example... Last night I picked up a domain
      name that has 22,000 EXACT match searches a month...
      I picked up the .com EMD. A little bit longer tail, only
      180K competing pages, high PPC, strong commercial
      intent to get information. Average CPA for this niche is
      $18. I registered the domain for a few years, and this
      AM sent a list of the articles that I need written to my
      writers. I'll do my backlinking deal (100% white hat -
      takes longer, but builds a VERY strong domain), and in
      a month or so enjoy the traffic and income.

      At the end of the day...

      What this is about is looking for domain names that
      have potential. I used to invest in real estate and LOVED
      looking at houses for potential deals. Because of the
      economy, I got out of RE investing. So that 'urge' to
      go and look at potential deals has transferred to the
      domain world I guess. 95% of my strategies are for
      the long-term. Years. Building high quality authority
      sites on these domains. The other 5% is spent on
      deals like what this thread is based on. Maybe I will
      flip it, maybe I won't. But the $10 investment was
      worth it to me just to find out.

      Didn't mean to change the direction of this thread,
      just thought I'd share more info about what I do on
      the side in the domain name world because there is
      just so much darn opportunity out there for those who
      are willing to dig 27 feet deeper than most.
      • [1] reply
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