I'm getting tired of these people...

25 replies
Hey all,

[PREWARNING: This is NOT one of those "Guru Bashing" posts...I
am NOT saying this does or doesn't work and I certainly don't think
the world hates me or that internet marketing doesn't work...I am
eating pizza and drinking wine tonight that came directly from my
online business, I am sitting looking at my Samsung monitor that came
directly out my profits from August, I am sitting on a leather chair that
came...well, you get the point
]

I am not one to slate others or moan about something not working,
usually because I stick to what works for me.

But sometimes, I just get so pissed off at some of these big shot "gurus"
overhyping stuff that clearly DOES NOT work as they describe.

The case in point is this new Arbitrage Conspiracy from Brad Fallen...

Now, before all the fanbase start attacking me, I am sure he's a smart
guy and knows enough to dazzle even the biggest earners online, but
if that's the case, why is he telling people in his "confidential report"
a method which clearly doesn't work as he describes?

For example, he explains how you find a CPA offer that pays $1.50 (or
whatever) for a simple email submit.

Then he tells you to craft a list of domains that are out there which
are specifically related to the offer you're promoting, so that you can
use these popular domain names as keywords to bid on in Adwords
and get cheap clicks.

At this point, you're thinking, yeah, that makes sense!

He then goes on to explain how he's making a few thousand per day
(or more I think) with these offers, which I don't doubt.

HOWEVER...

I challenge you, yes YOU, right now to go and apply his first technique
of bidding on other domains in Adwords, and direct linking to the CPA
offers.

Let me know when you've done that and come back here to the forum
and tell me if you don't get the biggest damn Google slap you've ever
had...

If this is one of the techniques that make up the 3 payments of $700+
for his system (that other paid thousands for), then I think I know
what I am going to do with MY money.

Again, I hate to sound like a bitch and I am not saying Brad is this
or that, I'm just getting sick and tired of people trying to lure me
into their sales pitch by giving me free content that is as useful and
functional as my 1989 A-Team radio control car with no batteries.

/end rant

\back to work
#people #tired
  • Profile picture of the author Eric Stanley
    Shouldn't it be </end rant> and then <back to work>?

    In all seriousness, I can appreciate your sentiment. While I am not completely familiar with the system itself, there seems to be HUGE risk of Google slapping abound with the method. I'm sure others will chime in here...
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
      It just boils down to the quality of the landing page, what kind of page did you try it with?

      But it's true that it is never quite as easy as they make it sound...
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    • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
      Originally Posted by newyorktrader View Post


      In all seriousness, I can appreciate your sentiment. While I am not completely familiar with the system itself, there seems to be HUGE risk of Google slapping abound with the method. I'm sure others will chime in here...
      Yeah, and I think Google are on to this...just like they wiped out the 'ol Google Cash method where people direct linked to Clickbank offers.

      I actually have made about $400 in the last couple of months promoting a CPA offer for a free trial of a weight loss product and I have yet to be "Google Slapped", but that's because my keywords are majorly targeted to the offer and the content of the offer's landing page is quite substantial (not just a zip submit page)...

      ...so that's why I am not saying this doesn't have mileage, but the way these guys make out how easy it is to make 50k per day is just laughable when the very first thing they say to do is just asking for Google to slam the doors on you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Deegan
    Using domain names does work...the direct linking part sounds abit ehhh. However I've seen the method used effectively with Lpgen based sites and self crafted landing pages.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
      Originally Posted by Gorilla Writer View Post

      Using domain names does work...the direct linking part sounds abit ehhh. However I've seen the method used effectively with Lpgen based sites and self crafted landing pages.
      Well, if you're talking about self crafting your own landing pages, that's a whole different story. I am sure I could shoot my QS right up if I did that...

      ...but that is NOT what I am being sold on here. I am being sold on direct linking.

      (Sales pitch is all "No website, no product etc).
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  • Profile picture of the author manuu
    Hi Nick,

    i agree with you, i didn't try the technique you mention, but was definitely sucked in by the pitch. But i tell you one thing, i don't know if you noticed this, in all the build up and hype - all the video testimonials for it were by all the 'Top Guns' of IM! i did not see by any means the average Joe in any video testimonial singing the praises of the Arbitrage Conspiracy product etc.
    i was tempted, but thankfully didn't go forth.
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  • Profile picture of the author Razvan Rovinaru
    I'm sorry, I may be mistaken but I don't this this product is created by Brad Callen. I think you meant to say Brad Fallon, didn't you?

    Anyway, I don't know if the product itself is worth what they're asking for it but that's for their customers to determine. Also, regarding the free report, the bidding on domains tactic can work if you know how to apply it. I have tried similar techniques with PPC + CPA offers and they worked very well, even though I didn't use Google but Yahoo's Search Marketing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
      Originally Posted by Razvan Rovinaru View Post

      I'm sorry, I may be mistaken but I don't this this product is created by Brad Callen. I think you meant to say Brad Fallon, didn't you?
      Yes, sorry I meant Brad Fallen, it was Brad Callon that sent me the pitch, lol that's where I got confused.

      Originally Posted by Razvan Rovinaru View Post

      Anyway, I don't know if the product itself is worth what they're asking for it but that's for their customers to determine.
      I agree. I am not saying anything about the main product, just the pitch seems a little hyped for me, but who am I to complain? I didn't hand over $700 so I can't say anything.

      Originally Posted by Razvan Rovinaru View Post

      Also, regarding the free report, the bidding on domains tactic can work if you know how to apply it.
      Personally, I applied it exactly as described.
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  • Profile picture of the author imaddict
    Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

    For example, he explains how you find a CPA offer that pays $1.50 (or
    whatever) for a simple email submit.

    Then he tells you to craft a list of domains that are out there which
    are specifically related to the offer you're promoting, so that you can
    use these popular domain names as keywords to bid on in Adwords
    and get cheap clicks.

    At this point, you're thinking, yeah, that makes sense!

    He then goes on to explain how he's making a few thousand per day
    (or more I think) with these offers, which I don't doubt.
    Start doubting my friend... who IN THEIR RIGHT MIND would start teaching people a simple system (that can be QUICKLY & EASILY duplicated by almost anyone) that makes over $1,000,000/year?

    Buy people's products, test their methods, but take everything they say with a grain of salt (e.g. I make 100k/day from CPA offers but now I'm going to teach you how to do it for only 3 payments of $777 - What's the trade-off here? 3 million/month EVERY month vs. a couple mil. for selling a product during a launch and inviting a ton of competition that will eventually wear out the system.)
    Signature
    It's about time someone stepped up to the plate to tell it LIKE IT IS: MUST READ for ALL IMers
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  • Profile picture of the author Razvan Rovinaru
    I agree that it was over-hyped and I also disliked the fact that testimonials were given only by well known internet marketers. It lacked credibility because of that IMO, as I would have liked to see testimonials from regular folks.

    Personally, I applied it exactly as described.
    Like I said, I didn't use this on Google so you probably have a point there. This is a strategy I used in the past on Yahoo and it has produced good results for me. That, though, is no excuse for them as they don't mention any problems with using the method on Google.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Nick,
      I'm just getting sick and tired of people trying to lure me into their sales pitch by giving me free content that is as useful and functional as my 1989 A-Team radio control car with no batteries.
      If you were sitting in a pub, and you started getting tired of the people close to you and there was absolutely no reason for you to continue to keep yourself in their vicinity - what would you do?

      Do the same here. Problem solved.

      People can't 'lure' you in if you're not biting because you're not listening.

      Plus, if this is an area of business that you want to continue to focus on, then just be pleased that many of your potential competition that could be raising your costs (PPC is an auction) might also be getting lured, biting, then getting tired and also slapped. Perfect! Perhaps you should be thanking these people for making your life easier?
      Signature


      Roger Davis

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      • Profile picture of the author mdunn123
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi Nick,
        If you were sitting in a pub, and you started getting tired of the people close to you and there was absolutely no reason for you to continue to keep yourself in their vicinity - what would you do?

        Do the same here. Problem solved.

        People can't 'lure' you in if you're not biting because you're not listening.

        Plus, if this is an area of business that you want to continue to focus on, then just be pleased that many of your potential competition that could be raising your costs (PPC is an auction) might also be getting lured, biting, then getting tired and also slapped. Perfect! Perhaps you should be thanking these people for making your life easier?
        Now this type of thinking and approach...I like!
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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi mDunn,

          Cheers. I see no reason to get 'tired' of people, if you are effectively alotting your time and attention to only the people who have proven themselves to be consistently deserving of it - and when someone proves to be abusing your time and attention at all - put them on mute.

          The point being - in this age of information overload and in this business - if you are seeking and trying to digest information and not doing the above, then expect to be overwhelmed and confused - and possibly, tired.

          Guard your enthusiasm for the business as if it were your life force. For me, it is. The beach (which I can see over my monitor) is always beckoning me to indulge in it's sensory delights.

          I find that by being particularly selective about what I read and digest (particularly from people who are in 'hard-sell' mode with the spin level turned up high), I find that I give myself the time and freedom to ease off a little and 'go wandering' (following intuitively directed trails of information) and discover little gems in all sorts of unusual places.

          Example - I was reading some interesting pdfs by fellow warrior Hardi Wijaya last night from his warrior blog -

          WarriorForum - Internet Marketing Forums - Some Truths Are Best Left Alone?

          Within one of the pdfs (chapter 3 pdf) I noticed this quote from Winston Churchill speaking at Harvard in 1943 (what was he doing there at that time??!!) -

          ...To control what men think offered far better prizes than taking away other peoples' lands or provinces or grinding them down in exploitation.

          "The empires of the future are the empires of the mind."
          I agree, and perhaps the 'future' he spoke of is now? There's certainly a lot of 'mind pollution' going on and you can see the carbon footprints all over the forum/internet.

          Garbage in/garbage out. Take control of the 'in'. Look after your head-jelly - you can't chuck it out and buy a new one at Staples when you've frazzled it (yet).
          Signature


          Roger Davis

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          • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
            Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

            Hi mDunn,

            Example - I was reading some interesting pdfs by fellow warrior Hardi Wijaya last night from his warrior blog -

            WarriorForum - Internet Marketing Forums - Some Truths Are Best Left Alone?

            Within one of the pdfs (chapter 3 pdf) I noticed this quote from Winston Churchill speaking at Harvard in 1943 (what was he doing there at that time??!!) -
            Roger, is that the same Hardi Wijaya that is PM'ing people with a scam offer, or does he have a twin brother?
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            • Profile picture of the author ExRat
              Hi Nick,

              Lol. I have no idea. I just read one of his posts which led me to his blog (via his sig) and I found some of the stuff interesting. He hasn't PMed me.

              But I guess it makes my comments above look like a pile of youknowwhat and makes me look like a proper plonker. Wouldn't be the first time I've opened my mouth and put my foot in it though. I hope people can see what my intentions were, and I hope that it's not the same person. But I doubt there are too many of them around...I just prefer to give props to anyone I find who shares good stuff and doesn't appear to be either full of it, or a guru. Looks like I might have got my fingers burnt by adopting that policy.

              Let me know (via PM if you like) if you find out - I'm poised to eat humble pie, my words, and click hard on the permanent mute button if he is a scammer.

              Dang!
              Signature


              Roger Davis

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              • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
                Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

                Hi Nick,

                Lol. I have no idea. I just read one of his posts which led me to his blog (via his sig) and I found some of the stuff interesting. He hasn't PMed me.

                But I guess it makes my comments above look like a pile of youknowwhat and makes me look like a proper plonker. Wouldn't be the first time I've opened my mouth and put my foot in it though. I hope people can see what my intentions were, and I hope that it's not the same person. But I doubt there are too many of them around...I just prefer to give props to anyone I find who shares good stuff and doesn't appear to be either full of it, or a guru. Looks like I might have got my fingers burnt by adopting that policy.

                Let me know (via PM if you like) if you find out - I'm poised to eat humble pie, my words, and click hard on the permanent mute button if he is a scammer.

                Dang!
                Actually, I have no place to call him a scammer. He's just acting fishy...doing what appears to be a virtual WSO in the main discussion forum detailing his more than too good to be true services, using a poll for research into who will want to pay him (lol, and how much they are willing to pay).

                Then, me thinking nothing of it, voted on how much I would pay (theoretically, I'd never hand money over like that).

                Then what do you know, I get a PM from the guy with a pitch.

                Lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author psresearch
    Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

    Hey all,

    [PREWARNING: This is NOT one of those "Guru Bashing" posts...I
    am NOT saying this does or doesn't work and I certainly don't think
    the world hates me or that internet marketing doesn't work...I am
    eating pizza and drinking wine tonight that came directly from my
    online business, I am sitting looking at my Samsung monitor that came
    directly out my profits from August, I am sitting on a leather chair that
    came...well, you get the point
    ]

    I am not one to slate others or moan about something not working,
    usually because I stick to what works for me.

    But sometimes, I just get so pissed off at some of these big shot "gurus"
    overhyping stuff that clearly DOES NOT work as they describe.

    The case in point is this new Arbitrage Conspiracy from Brad Fallen...

    Now, before all the fanbase start attacking me, I am sure he's a smart
    guy and knows enough to dazzle even the biggest earners online, but
    if that's the case, why is he telling people in his "confidential report"
    a method which clearly doesn't work as he describes?

    For example, he explains how you find a CPA offer that pays $1.50 (or
    whatever) for a simple email submit.

    Then he tells you to craft a list of domains that are out there which
    are specifically related to the offer you're promoting, so that you can
    use these popular domain names as keywords to bid on in Adwords
    and get cheap clicks.

    At this point, you're thinking, yeah, that makes sense!

    He then goes on to explain how he's making a few thousand per day
    (or more I think) with these offers, which I don't doubt.

    HOWEVER...

    I challenge you, yes YOU, right now to go and apply his first technique
    of bidding on other domains in Adwords, and direct linking to the CPA
    offers.

    Let me know when you've done that and come back here to the forum
    and tell me if you don't get the biggest damn Google slap you've ever
    had...

    If this is one of the techniques that make up the 3 payments of $700+
    for his system (that other paid thousands for), then I think I know
    what I am going to do with MY money.

    Again, I hate to sound like a bitch and I am not saying Brad is this
    or that, I'm just getting sick and tired of people trying to lure me
    into their sales pitch by giving me free content that is as useful and
    functional as my 1989 A-Team radio control car with no batteries.

    /end rant

    back to work
    Here's the deal Nick - and a little FACT that the Arbitrage Conspiracy guys glossed over...

    Using Domains as Keywords DOES work - IF you already have a great account history and have been advertising via Adwords for a long time, have a big spend, etc.

    I've been doing it almost since Adwords began - but as you found out - YOU can't do it - especially if you're newer to Adwords. And I DIRECT-LINK to CPA landing pages...but as you found out - YOU can't direct-link to CPA landing pages and get away with what MYSELF or other Adwords advertisers who have been playing the game for years and spending money for years CAN.

    I mentioned in another thread a little experiment I did.

    I gave someone with a newer Adwords account:

    The exact same keywords I was using, the exact same Ad, the EXACT same landing page.

    The results?

    He got min bids of between .50 - $1.00
    I got min bids of between .15 - .30

    We did a few other experiments like this and sometimes it was MUCH worse - with him getting min bids of as much as $5.00 while I stayed down in the .30 range.

    I asked about that in another thread and the answer I was given was that you can use Yahoo/MSN and other ppc while you're building up your account history...but was that even discussed in the free information? I don't know...as I heard what the free information was about and lost interest since it's a technique that's been known for YEARS.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Tunnah
      Originally Posted by markquinn View Post

      Here's the deal Nick - and a little FACT that the Arbitrage Conspiracy guys glossed over...

      Using Domains as Keywords DOES work - IF you already have a great account history and have been advertising via Adwords for a long time, have a big spend, etc.

      I've been doing it almost since Adwords began - but as you found out - YOU can't do it - especially if you're newer to Adwords. And I DIRECT-LINK to CPA landing pages...but as you found out - YOU can't direct-link to CPA landing pages and get away with what MYSELF or other Adwords advertisers who have been playing the game for years and spending money for years CAN.

      I mentioned in another thread a little experiment I did.

      I gave someone with a newer Adwords account:

      The exact same keywords I was using, the exact same Ad, the EXACT same landing page.

      The results?

      He got min bids of between .50 - $1.00
      I got min bids of between .15 - .30

      We did a few other experiments like this and sometimes it was MUCH worse - with him getting min bids of as much as $5.00 while I stayed down in the .30 range.

      I asked about that in another thread and the answer I was given was that you can use Yahoo/MSN and other ppc while you're building up your account history...but was that even discussed in the free information? I don't know...as I heard what the free information was about and lost interest since it's a technique that's been known for YEARS.
      Thanks Mark. That makes a lot of sense. I've recently gone back to PPC and purchased a few keyword rich domains. I had exactly the issues as you suggest. Bit of a catch 22 really isn't it?

      Rich
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      • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi Nick,
        If you were sitting in a pub, and you started getting tired of the people close to you and there was absolutely no reason for you to continue to keep yourself in their vicinity - what would you do?

        Do the same here. Problem solved.

        People can't 'lure' you in if you're not biting because you're not listening.

        Plus, if this is an area of business that you want to continue to focus on, then just be pleased that many of your potential competition that could be raising your costs (PPC is an auction) might also be getting lured, biting, then getting tired and also slapped. Perfect! Perhaps you should be thanking these people for making your life easier?
        Point taken Roger, I'm off!

        Originally Posted by markquinn View Post

        Here's the deal Nick - and a little FACT that the Arbitrage Conspiracy guys glossed over...

        Using Domains as Keywords DOES work - IF you already have a great account history and have been advertising via Adwords for a long time, have a big spend, etc.

        I've been doing it almost since Adwords began - but as you found out - YOU can't do it - especially if you're newer to Adwords. And I DIRECT-LINK to CPA landing pages...but as you found out - YOU can't direct-link to CPA landing pages and get away with what MYSELF or other Adwords advertisers who have been playing the game for years and spending money for years CAN.
        Lol. You do realize that I've had an Adwords account since 2006, spent thousands of pounds and generally experience CTRs of at least 2%, with QS scores being consistently between 7 and 9?

        I guess that blows your "theory" out of the water. Whilst I do agree with what you're saying about account history, the fact is that Google know what's going on here and couldn't care less whether I am the chief Adwords Specialist of the UK, and I am doing this all for charity, as soon as I start direct linking to offers based on domain name competition, well, it's goodnight...
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        • Profile picture of the author psresearch
          Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

          Point taken Roger, I'm off!



          Lol. You do realize that I've had an Adwords account since 2006, spent thousands of pounds and generally experience CTRs of at least 2%, with QS scores being consistently between 7 and 9?

          I guess that blows your "theory" out of the water. Whilst I do agree with what you're saying about account history, the fact is that Google know what's going on here and couldn't care less whether I am the chief Adwords Specialist of the UK, and I am doing this all for charity, as soon as I start direct linking to offers based on domain name competition, well, it's goodnight...
          I've spent about $300,000 on PPC to date - so I'm not sure how that compares to
          thousands of pounds - but I know one of my friends who does this spends
          $100,000+/Month.

          I know he almost NEVER got slapped by ANY of the slaps that came down - so
          maybe Google takes into account the spending level at some point.

          But you could be right. I was just offering it as a theory or some sort of explanation.
          I'm certainly willing to believe it's wrong. Besides I only did limited testing of it.
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          • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
            Originally Posted by markquinn View Post

            I've spent about $300,000 on PPC to date - so I'm not sure how that compares to
            thousands of pounds - but I know one of my friends who does this spends
            $100,000+/Month.

            I know he almost NEVER got slapped by ANY of the slaps that came down - so
            maybe Google takes into account the spending level at some point.

            But you could be right. I was just offering it as a theory or some sort of explanation.
            I'm certainly willing to believe it's wrong. Besides I only did limited testing of it.
            Sure, I am not contesting to your suggestions and I think there is truth in what you say for sure, but I think if spending 300k on Adwords is what is takes to make such a system effective, well...I question whether you'd have time or inclination for such a system at that level anyway.
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            • Profile picture of the author psresearch
              Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

              Sure, I am not contesting to your suggestions and I think there is truth in what you say for sure, but I think if spending 300k on Adwords is what is takes to make such a system effective, well...I question whether you'd have time or inclination for such a system at that level anyway.
              You know. That's a great point. Because when I asked James Schranko in another
              thread about the account history - he mentioned using the other PPC engines while
              doing it - but as you say how many of the NEW Adwords advertisers are going to
              hang in there while they're building that?
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          • Profile picture of the author asr_guy
            Originally Posted by markquinn View Post

            ...

            I know he almost NEVER got slapped by ANY of the slaps that came down - so
            maybe Google takes into account the spending level at some point.

            ...

            Your account history does affect your "account quality score". I know because Google employees have mentioned this at live seminars eg. recently at Adtech in Nov 2008.

            I don't think your spending level matters - it's a question of how effective you are. Big spenders that get poor relative results (compared to others) are probably treated like people just starting out.

            Cheers.
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      • Profile picture of the author psresearch
        Originally Posted by richt1971 View Post

        Thanks Mark. That makes a lot of sense. I've recently gone back to PPC and purchased a few keyword rich domains. I had exactly the issues as you suggest. Bit of a catch 22 really isn't it?

        Rich
        You're welcome, Rich.

        However, one thing to keep in mind is that I have a MILLION keywords in my account (after a while you can request an account size upgrade from the min size - which I think is 40,000 or 50,000 keywords although I can't swear to that as it's been so long since I've been at the minimum).

        I would imagine your not about to set out and buy a million keyword rich domains.

        I suppose there might be a way to use landing page builders like LPGen, PPCRiches, or SpeedPPC as a workaround, but then you have to get pretty creative about why those odd domain variations are on your landing page.

        As I mentioned - I didn't see the free info, but I'm assuming they gave at least the basic variations:

        domain name
        domainname
        domain name.com
        domainname.com
        domain name com
        domainname com
        www.domain name.com
        DomainName.com
        www domain name com
        www domainname com
        www.domainname
        www.domain name

        There are MANY more variations but not worth hogging up your account space with them until you know which keywords it makes sense to roll them out on from the results of tracking all of your keywords.
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    • Profile picture of the author Shafiq Kamal
      Nick
      You are right. It's because they are selling "teachings". A man who have achieved in real life but never coached, much can be learnt from him. Those are the real guru whose teachings produce result.
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