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Struggling with "List Building" I need help!

by marktheonlinesurfer
40 replies
Hello fellow warriors,

For the last few months I been focusing on the list building business model. As many warriors say "it is where the money is".

I've read many posts here on the subject, e-books and watched videos. I spent a lot of time testing and tweaking but I am seriously struggling.....

I understand the concept. You want to:

1. Drive targeted traffic to your squeeze page
2. Offer them bait in exchange for their e-mail address. This bait normally is composed of a FREE report of some sort.
3. Present them with a OTO on your Thank You Page.
4. Send them a well thought out autoresponder series that provides them with valuable information. You will regularly pitch your main product and perhaps some extra products in this series.

In a nutshell I believe that is the idea.

Well I've tried that MANY times and have never been successful. I've always had a low conversion rate.

The conversion rate of my opt-in page is normally at 5% the most I ever got it to was 15%. I hear stories of people getting 50-70% opt-in rates, not sure how true that is.

I use single-opt in.

Then my next challenge was the open and clickthrough rate of my aweber e-mails. I get down as low as 10% and as high as 30%.

I been applying all the principles I learnt. Coming up with catchy subject lines, providing valuable content, building the relationship, but I just can't get it to go anywhere.

For starters, I thought it might be helpful to show you my squeeze page at:

Attract And Seduce Any Hot Woman

perhaps you can shed some light as to why the opt-in rate is low?

Furthermore, why do you think the open rate of my e-mails is very low and the subscribers are pretty much non-responsive?

I am never going to be able to make money this way....

After so much time and effort on this, it would be great to move forward.

I tried so many things...I'm hitting a brick wall!

I would very much appreciate your feedback.

Thanks,

Mark
#list building #struggling
  • Profile picture of the author petelta
    Where is your traffic coming from? If it's coming from places where men want to pick up hot girls, then it would convert better.

    With 5% conversions, you are getting traffic from the wrong places.

    Travis
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    • Profile picture of the author marktheonlinesurfer
      Originally Posted by petelta View Post

      Where is your traffic coming from? If it's coming from places where men want to pick up hot girls, then it would convert better.

      With 5% conversions, you are getting traffic from the wrong places.

      Travis
      My traffic is coming mostly from ezine articles. I did try some PPC with Facebook and didn't get much better results.
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    • Profile picture of the author celente
      Originally Posted by petelta View Post

      Where is your traffic coming from? If it's coming from places where men want to pick up hot girls, then it would convert better.

      With 5% conversions, you are getting traffic from the wrong places.

      Travis
      yes i agree,

      try press releases, blog commenting and go to where your target audience is likely to be hanging out.

      The more targeted the better.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wechito
    If you think your CR is not big enough, probably your squeeze page needs to be improved in order to convert more. Do a little split testing creating different versions of the page until you find the conversions you need.

    Another reason why your CR is low might be that the traffic you are driving to your page is not targeted enough. Check this. For example, if most of your traffic is coming from Google, maybe you are ranking for the wrong keywords.


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  • Profile picture of the author Christophe Young
    Try using Banners on Online Dating Sites. Much better traffic!
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
      You asked for advice, so forgive me for being blunt, but I think you're better off with an honest reaction than minced words. This is my opinion:

      The claims on the page are so ridiculous that your low opt-in rates are quite likely due to the fact that most guys are smarter than the ad copy gives them credit for. They'd no more pick up a copy of your report as advertised, than if you were offering to show them how anyone can learn to beat Tiger Woods at golf.

      I'm not saying hotties never hook up with average guys, but the appeal would be far more believable if you advertised that your report teaches a man to develop unshakable confidence and a sparkling wit, which do help a lot to overcome average looks and little money, but it is still going to be a numbers game, for which a thick skin and a tolerance for rejection help a lot. For a guy to believe that there will be no rejection when he's batting way out of his league simply requires magical thinking, and sets him up to be clobbered when the inevitable rejection occurs.

      I'd also recommend getting rid of the babes with the inflatable airbags, and replacing them with natural beauties-I bet you're losing a lot of guys who find implants a turn-off.

      If you don't want to change the copy, then I suggest you figure out where really gullible guys hang out, and go there-perhaps new age forums where they talk about 2012 and the Mayan calendar, or "law of attraction" type sites.






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      • Profile picture of the author NicoleBeckett
        Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

        You asked for advice, so forgive me for being blunt, but I think you're better off with an honest reaction than minced words. This is my opinion:

        The claims on the page are so ridiculous that your low opt-in rates are quite likely due to the fact that most guys are smarter than the ad copy gives them credit for. They'd no more pick up a copy of your report as advertised, than if you were offering to show them how anyone can learn to beat Tiger Woods at golf.

        I'm not saying hotties never hook up with average guys, but the appeal would be far more believable if you advertised that your report teaches a man to develop unshakable confidence and a sparkling wit, which do help a lot to overcome average looks and little money, but it is still going to be a numbers game, for which a thick skin and a tolerance for rejection help a lot. For a guy to believe that there will be no rejection when he's batting way out of his league simply requires magical thinking, and sets him up to be clobbered when the inevitable rejection occurs.

        I'd also recommend getting rid of the babes with the inflatable airbags, and replacing them with natural beauties-I bet you're losing a lot of guys who find implants a turn-off.
        Greg's made some really good points.

        It's impossible to believe that rejection is something that you can *completely* avoid just by following some tips. I think your target audience is smarter than that, and they're viewing that mindset as hype. I don't think any guy wants to be "that guy" when he's out - you know the one, cheesy and slick, who totally thinks he's God's gift to women - and you're copy kinda makes your product come across as a recipe to transform yourself into "that guy".

        IMO, you'd be better off offering a few bullet points to lay out exactly what you're giving them - like tips on how to feel more comfortable when you're talking to women, or tips for talking to women without sounding like a loser, etc.

        If you like the picture of the girls you have, keep it - but add some other pictures of other women. After all, not every guy is looking just for a hook up in da club
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  • Profile picture of the author petelta
    Start tweaking the squeeze page 1 thing at a time. Set up a split test in Google Website Optimizer and make it convert better.

    Change that pictures of the women with a picture of your free report...eBook Cover Creator - eCover Design Online Free | MyEcoverMaker.com

    See which converts better for the next couple hundred viewers. Then, test the headline...then test the bullet points...then test the submit image...then, move on to the email sequence...then...

    I think you get the point. My lowest converting squeeze page is at 32% and my highest is sitting at 78% for over 5,000 viewers... That's all because of testing and the traffic sources.

    Travis
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by petelta View Post

      Start tweaking the squeeze page 1 thing at a time. Set up a split test in Google Website Optimizer and make it convert better.

      Change that pictures of the women with a picture of your free report...eBook Cover Creator - eCover Design Online Free | MyEcoverMaker.com

      See which converts better for the next couple hundred viewers. Then, test the headline...then test the bullet points...then test the submit image...then, move on to the email sequence...then...

      I think you get the point. My lowest converting squeeze page is at 32% and my highest is sitting at 78% for over 5,000 viewers... That's all because of testing and the traffic sources.

      Travis
      Good Tips here... The page is pretty decent, so I would say traffic is low quality, how are you tracking conversions?

      You should increase your traffic by stretching your articles... Submit them to more directories, submit them to ning communities about dating, squidoo, etc. Then turn the articles into a simple video and submit it to all the directories using TubeMogul or Heyspread, then make a podcast of the article and submit it to podcast directories...

      As for the response rate, 10-30% is not too bad for a single opt-in list. I would say first thing to do is make sure they KNOW WHO YOU ARE that way they recognize you when they see your emails. Also, since you are using single opt-in make sure you send the ebook via email so they MUST give you the right email to get the book.

      I would make your opt-in page a page explaining to them that their ebook has been sent to the address they provided and introduce yourself then tell then to "click here for a special offer" or something...

      Good Luck hope this helps
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      • Profile picture of the author marktheonlinesurfer
        Originally Posted by Coby View Post

        Good Tips here... The page is pretty decent, so I would say traffic is low quality, how are you tracking conversions?

        You should increase your traffic by stretching your articles... Submit them to more directories, submit them to ning communities about dating, squidoo, etc. Then turn the articles into a simple video and submit it to all the directories using TubeMogul or Heyspread, then make a podcast of the article and submit it to podcast directories...

        As for the response rate, 10-30% is not too bad for a single opt-in list. I would say first thing to do is make sure they KNOW WHO YOU ARE that way they recognize you when they see your emails. Also, since you are using single opt-in make sure you send the ebook via email so they MUST give you the right email to get the book.

        I would make your opt-in page a page explaining to them that their ebook has been sent to the address they provided and introduce yourself then tell then to "click here for a special offer" or something...

        Good Luck hope this helps
        Hey Coby,

        This is a very helpful post. Thanks so much.

        Do you prefer double opt in to single opt-in?

        How can I turn my articles into videos? Is there a software you can recommend?

        Thanks,

        Mark
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        • Profile picture of the author Coby
          Originally Posted by marktheonlinesurfer View Post

          Hey Coby,

          This is a very helpful post. Thanks so much.

          Do you prefer double opt in to single opt-in?

          How can I turn my articles into videos? Is there a software you can recommend?

          Thanks,

          Mark
          Hey Mark,

          Glad I could help, here are the answers to these questions...

          1.) I use both - they both have their strengths - I don't prefer either one over the other. I think when starting you should definitely utilize single opt-in until you get a decent sized list...

          2.) Yes, turning articles into videos is not as hard as it sounds... I use OpenOffice.org - The Free and Open Productivity Suite to create a presentation (power point style) and then you can simply record it using CamStudio - Free Screen Recording Software and add title screens, credits, or captions - or just edit it some using Windows Live Movie Maker (should be installed if you have windows)...

          Good Luck
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    • Profile picture of the author marktheonlinesurfer
      Originally Posted by petelta View Post

      Start tweaking the squeeze page 1 thing at a time. Set up a split test in Google Website Optimizer and make it convert better.

      Change that pictures of the women with a picture of your free report...eBook Cover Creator - eCover Design Online Free | MyEcoverMaker.com

      See which converts better for the next couple hundred viewers. Then, test the headline...then test the bullet points...then test the submit image...then, move on to the email sequence...then...

      I think you get the point. My lowest converting squeeze page is at 32% and my highest is sitting at 78% for over 5,000 viewers... That's all because of testing and the traffic sources.

      Travis
      Thanks for the very helpful post Travis.

      What traffic sources do you suggest? What have you converted the highest well?

      Also if you don't mind, I wouldn't appreciate if you post a link of a squeeze page that coverts well. Of course doesn't have to be one of yours but one so we can get a general idea of what would work.

      Thanks,

      Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author misterkailo
    I tried changing the sign up button in the mailing list. Instead of saying Subscribe now (or something along those lines), I used Get Free Report Now! The conversion went up by 10%
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  • Profile picture of the author cyong
    i think your site is quite good,the source of traffic may not good. Had you try forum marketing? Personally i think forum marketing is good source of traffic for this type of niche.

    CY
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  • Profile picture of the author HamzaSiddiqui
    I really think that your page need some improvements....I mean real improvements
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  • Profile picture of the author GoogleWarrior
    Great information in this thread. Thanks guys!
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  • Profile picture of the author davidfstyles
    With the opt-in conversion rate, I usually increase my opt-in rates 200-300% by doing multi-variate testing. I literally test dozens of variations of every element on the squeeze page... headline, pictures, opt-in button, bullet points etc to see what converts the best.

    I do a similar thing with my subject lines. For example if you are sending a broadcast message with Aweber, you can split-test 4x subject lines with each broadcast. This testing will give you an idea of which subject lines give you the best open rates.

    I've found the biggest factor that increases email response however is the CTR. Some of my emails get over 70% CTR's and this again has been tweaked an improved by using Aweber's split-testing feature. Keep on testing... small tweaks can lead to massive improvements.

    Hope that helps.

    Talk soon,

    David.
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  • Profile picture of the author Always-A-Warrior
    Are my eyes playing tricks on me or are they fake boobs?. I like my woman God built.

    Now back to the subject of listing ... where were we now?. lol
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  • Profile picture of the author Terry Hatfield
    You may want to check out the opt-in page here:

    Official Double Your Dating | David DeAngelo's Double Your Dating
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  • Profile picture of the author SpotlessCleanWindows
    Mark, I was in the Health Club Industry for years, and we always kept it that if they didnt want to receive emails from other companies click the box. I now have millions of opt in with IP's and time stamps.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      I have two suggestions that may help to increase your optins. Ditch the scarcity tactic and the articles. Ask yourself why would anyone bother to signup if you already have the tips online and there's only four reports left?
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  • Profile picture of the author kingmike
    Your squeeze page is decent and you can do a whole better. Your success is near.The following is based on my personal experience.

    1. Know your target audience.
    2. Know your audience demographic
    3. Use long tail targeted keywords

    Here are a few tips you could use.

    1. Write or pay someone to write good quality articles for you with your target keywords and use article spinner to spin them and submit to top 10 ezine article directories. use long tail keywords e.g how to approach a woman

    2. Buy banner spaces on ad networks such as adbuyer.com where you can be able to choose your target audience such as gender, age etc.

    3. Make videos on how to attract a woman and related long tail keywords with benefits and submit them to the top ten video sites.

    4. build a fan page on how guys can attract hot woman in their lives
    and build a relationship with your fans, your goal should be to get as many likes as you can because this will lower your CPC when you decide to advertise on Facebook, this works like magic even i couldn't believe it.

    5. use exit splash on your squeeze page, use a video teaser on your squeeze page in stead of some girls and you might wana split test the words in your head line e.g report with video as more people are interested in watching videos then reading some reports especially non IM niches.

    Here is a quick competition spy for you that you are getting non targeted visitors.

    *Your target audience are Man but your most visitors are woman
    *your squeeze page supose to target man who wants to atract woman but most of your visitors are woman.
    *Your tatget audince supose to be from 25-60 years but your most visitors are from 13-17 and 50+

    If you get all this close to right your opt-ins and your open rates should improve.

    I could go on and on but these should get you started...
    Hope this helps.

    Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author Asher
    Someone probably mentioned this already but I
    really think you should removed most of the links at
    the bottom of your site.

    Once you remove those, I think the conversions
    should increase quite dramatically.

    Either that, or you further work on those pages,
    add value in them and in each of them, add the
    opt in form.

    Asher
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  • Profile picture of the author David McKee
    Frankly, you are competing in a very saturated market - sure, it is a market that will always be busy, but it is also a market that is filled with sleeze, scams, and outright garbage. I'll probably get excoriated by those in the niche, but the fact is there are also sites that are high quality with a customer satisfaction viewpoint.

    The first thing that got me when I read your post was you use of the word "bait".

    To me, that means you may not have the kind of high quality customer focus that would pull the 30-50% conversion rate you are talking about. Your niche is highly focused - that can't be denied, but the high amount of crap sites means the customer is highly sensitized to anything that smacks of "scam" and they will flee at the slight provocation.

    That is why you absolutely must have high quality products and services that over-deliver on everything you promise.

    In other words, "bait" just does not cut it - I don't want bait and neither do most people. Bait is what those who think they can set up a site in a day, sit back and watch the money roll in, try to serve, and the internet is full of that crap. In my opinion a real business strives to serve their customers with quality, not bait them.

    If you are over-providing your customers with excellent service you will not fail.

    -DTM
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  • Profile picture of the author Victor Edson
    Are you giving a strong call to action with your articles? I'm guessing not.

    Go into each one of your articles and tell people to go download your free report now.

    Then when people click on your link, they'll be on your site looking to download your report. You'll probably get a lower CTR on the articles, but a higher opt in rate on your squeeze page.

    Your copy also needs some work. The scare tactic with 4 copies goes a little too far, you should try a different headline.

    Also each one of your bullet points is about Never do this, Never do that... it sounds like a nagging wife. Change these to positive bullets, and if you can, remove some fears or doubts of your target market. The above example of a dating opt in page shows a great example of how that's done.

    And of course... test test test with Google Optimizer.
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    • Profile picture of the author surfless
      Originally Posted by Victor Edson View Post

      Your copy also needs some work. The scare tactic with 4 copies goes a little too far, you should try a different headline
      I totally agree, this is a deal killer for me always... If someone is going to B.S. me that there's only so many copies of a digital product left...then they will lie about everything else that's to follow and I don't care how bad I want the info I will always click away from it FAST!

      Other than that it looks good but u do need to make sure your getting niche specific traffic to it, not just eyeballs.
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  • Profile picture of the author entrepreneurjay
    I like your squeeze page so I think that is not your problem. Where your getting your traffic is make sure it is targeted and you should see some good conversions.

    Dating sites, etc....
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  • Profile picture of the author omk
    DO NOT ALLOW THEM TO WATCH THE VIDEO ON THAT PAGE!
    Just use a still that looks like the regular video, but instead of allowing them to watch it, tell them they have to opt-in first! - Trust me, you'll spike up your opt ins from curiosity alone. Right now when I go to your page, I can watch the video u have up there, so if I don't like what I see, what's to spur me to opt in? See, so u must not let them view any video at all until they opt in. Try it and see what happens!
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  • Profile picture of the author nnr21
    I tried giving my email but nothing came in my inbox??
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    • Profile picture of the author robbiestone
      I went to the page and the huge black takes the focus away from the actual optin box, i would of clicked away if it was me landing on it

      Make the box a little larger and a little further away from the black...maybe get rid of the black, gave me a headache looking at it

      EDIT - Looking again, the Patental Advisory makes it first seem like a site you dont want your kids to visit. Id redesign it...test test test as they say
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  • Profile picture of the author Enis
    You don't always need a OTO. The most important thing you want to focus on is the value and the relationship that you have with your list.
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  • Profile picture of the author jace
    I agree you will want to lose some of those links at the bottom, especially the article links. You really want them to do one thing, fill out that form. Maybe add some bullets and benefits to your squeeze page and split test, split test, split test.
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  • Profile picture of the author BethW1
    I agree with some of the other posts, change the squeeze page, the content needs to be a little more realistic. It sounds too far fetched so you are probably losing out on sales right there. Also add a freebie to your opt-in page. That should help with your sign up. Good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author Viramara
    Mark, just my opinion but the short to-the-point title and then a report like that would only work better in IM niche. your customer (guys) needs more enticing why he should sign up. I see not enough psychology trigger in your squeeze page unless the headline.

    Just my suggestions :
    - add some bulletpoints of benefit
    - add a hot babe pic. Men are visual ceature, they are your customer. Don't be shy to add a hottie pic with big boobs. write them something like "imagine you date her even you're broke, fat, and ugly"
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    • Profile picture of the author Yoong
      Hey there,

      Try using a better squeeze page.

      I find that there's really not enough information to get me excited and also the fact that you mention, it should be illegal might turn some people off. Just because it's legal doesn't mean its right.

      Also, trying running some ads to targetted traffic.

      I find listbuilding can be quite tedious with free traffic.

      Like the above, know your conversions, tweak your pages and don't send offers without conversion data.

      The bigger your list, the more chance of banking.
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      • Profile picture of the author larkykid
        Should you not also be capturing your prospects name? I only see a capture field for email address and therefore it might not come across as credible.
        How can you build a "relationship" with someone if you don't even know their name?

        I think you should put your call to action outside the capture field as well since then it's there permanently and not disappear as soon as you click into it.
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  • Profile picture of the author inconf
    Banner ads work like a treat for me in one sexual health related niche, it does cost money (but not much) and I built a list of 3000 in 4 weeks and it is growing by about 50-80 subscribers a day!

    Your SP needs to be better in my opinion, it is bland, and doesnt excite me or want me to give you my details.

    Have some bullet points, have some images, my SP mentions the word FREE 7 times! people love FREE!!

    Good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author woodymcgrath
    A few tips:

    #1. Try going for just the email instead of first name + email
    #2. Split test different landing pages. (always be testing!). i.e: I've tested my salespage for 1 year+ and I'm still testing it up till today.
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  • Profile picture of the author webmaster1742
    Originally Posted by marktheonlinesurfer View Post

    Hello fellow warriors,



    For starters, I thought it might be helpful to show you my squeeze page at:

    perhaps you can shed some light as to why the opt-in rate is low?

    Mark
    Just checked your opt-in page... I would replace boring "instant access" button text with "Download 3 Question" or something like that... more targeted From my experience ( my list is 68K now.. ) it will increase your opt-in %...
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