Can I Post All My Articles In The Main Discussion Forum And Get Loads Of Backlinks?

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

If it hasn't, there are a few people here getting away with murder.

Exactly what I was thinking, also, Martin. Until I realised yesterday that the rules must have changed!

There was an article posted here yesterday or the day before which even stated openly that it was pasted-in from somewhere else (though it was obvious anyway). I did "report" it, but it wasn't removed, and I later noticed that at least one Super-Moderator was among the people thanking the post. So I decided there was obviously no point in reporting it again. (I had honestly just been about to, when I suddenly noticed that).

My conclusion was that the rules very clearly have changed. Impossible to imagine any other explanation, really?

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Ralf Skirr 13 years ago

Haha, that headline got my attention.

That's what we all like to see happen. I think some people even became really popular by posting their articles.

But what if we start to post our spinning content so we can submit more articles more efficiently.
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- Alexa Smith Banned 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Ralf Skirr
  
  But what if we start to post our spinning content so we can submit more articles more efficiently.
  
  LOL, let's hope it doesn't come to that.
  
  I'll openly declare my own "vested interest"/"bias", here, because I do have one, and I'm not trying to conceal that ...
  
  For myself, I was very happy and eager to pay $60 for the facility of posting articles in the "Articles" section of the forum, when it opened, and I was one of the first people to do so. So I'm not awfully keen on seeing people pasting them in to this part of the forum. Is that unreasonable? :confused:
  
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Martin Luxton

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

I did "report" it, but it wasn't removed, and I later noticed that at least one Super-Moderator was among the people thanking the post. So I decided there was obviously no point in reporting it again.

And that Super-Moderator was the one who had previously said you couldn't do it.

So, Alexa, it's time to adapt your age-old advice re your own real estate vs. EZ Articles:

"Where do I post my articles first - on the Warrior Forum Main Discussion or on my blog?"

Martin

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ScottTMk 13 years ago

There is a section for this purpose, but you need to be a member, im sure there will be alot of angry people if they were to be allowed to be posted in this section.
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lgibbon

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

A few months back it was stated that you cannot post your articles/blog posts here as a thread.

Has that changed?

If it hasn't, there are a few people here getting away with murder.

Martin

Seems like that's becoming the norm now.
It's difficult finding a thread started that doesn't belong on someones blog these days.

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tpw

13 years ago

Martin: It depends on which person is posting the "article". {EDIT: Tongue-in-Cheek people...}

If I post something that "looks" like an article, even if posted only in the forum, then it WILL be reported and removed.

As a known article marketer, many people call my forum posts "articles" regardless of my intention to only put articles in the article forum and posts intended to create discussion in the main forum.

I guess that is what I get for pissing off some people.

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Alexa,

My conclusion was that the rules very clearly have changed. Impossible to imagine any other explanation, really?

Work on developing your imagination more.

I'm pretty sure I'm the one who thanked a post like that. That was my way of saying, "Yes, it's been looked at and I think this one is okay."

We've said lots of times, it's a judgment call. Some things that look like articles may present in a way that encourages useful discussion. Some may not. We don't take an absolutist "if it looks like it might break a rule, it gets nuked" approach to everything.

Will everyone agree on every judgment call? No. Of course not. If you feel that a call bothers you enough to stop reporting a certain type of thing, that's up to you. No-one is required to report anything. Here's a hint, though: The more people report a post, the more likely it is to be removed.

The judgment of the members counts for a lot more than most people would think.

Bill,

It depends on which person is posting the "article".

Oh?

Ask Willie how many of his thread starters have been deleted over the years because they were judged to be articles. If we're willing to delete stuff from a long-term member and ex-moderator, who exactly do you think is exempt?

I deleted a few of your threads for a while because you were on a tear to make a point, and you were overdoing it. That sort of thing sucks the oxygen out of the other conversations, and leaves important questions unanswered if it goes too far. That is not fair to the other members.

Moderation isn't just for moderators, sir.

Here's another thing for folks to consider: Post flow is a factor in these decisions. If there are a lot of posts coming in, we're more strict about what gets deleted. Lots of relevant questions at one point means we're likely to delete the stuff that's not as relevant. It's about improving the value of the current content for the members.

If the posts are slower, we might let things slide that we otherwise wouldn't. Nothing that's way out of line, but edge stuff, yeah. Sometimes.

Context matters.

Paul

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Martin Luxton

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

I'm pretty sure I'm the one who thanked a post like that. That was my way of saying, "Yes, it's been looked at and I think this one is okay."

[snip]

Context matters.

Paul

Paul,

Point taken. But the post in question started off along the lines of "Here's something I just posted on [myblogname]"

If we are allowing the post based on the benefits of the discussion it provokes do we also need to allow the self-promotion? Or is it OK to name your blog providing the link isn't live?

Some Warriors have developed the mentioning of their websites/services in the body of a post into a fine art.

One guy got his thread deleted last week for being self-promotional, started a new thread saying he wasn't allowed to link to his service, waited until the thread got really going then started posting his links (in response to the demand in the thread :rolleyes

. I don't know if it got zapped in the end but it was around for quite a while.

Martin

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Martin,

If they pull something like that, point it out to the mods. We've gotten pretty good at figuring out which are stealth promos and which aren't. Not perfect, but pretty good. We still need to know to look, though, which is largely a matter of the members alerting us.

As a general rule, articles will get deleted. But, as we've said before, that's not universal. Very few things are.

Paul

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Martin Luxton

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Martin,

If they pull something like that, point it out to the mods. We've gotten pretty good at figuring out which are stealth promos and which aren't. Not perfect, but pretty good. We still need to know to look, though, which is largely a matter of the members alerting us.

As a general rule, articles will get deleted. But, as we've said before, that's not universal. Very few things are.

Paul

Paul,

I reported the post in question and Alexa says she did, too.

Is George Wright correct in that we were missing the vital 3rd post?

I remember Allen commenting not too long ago that the reporting of posts by members with a long record of contributing here would carry more weight. I would say both Alexa and I both fall into that category and when I reported the post I actually asked for clarification of the rule because I thought it was something that needed to be addressed publicly.

I'm not saying the thread should have been deleted just because Alexa and I reported it, I just think it was an important issue that disappeared between the cracks.

If people start to get the impression that "anything goes" it will undermine the member moderator system.

Martin

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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Bill,

I don't care if it was directed at me or not. That statement was factually incorrect. When an established member makes a comment like that, it encourages people with less experience to interpret things that way, too.

Alexa,

I understood that the "judgement call" related to whether or not something was an article, Paul?

That's certainly what you've said in the past.

And part of that determination was whether or not it was likely to encourage useful discussion, or simply be self-promotional.

Have I posted about articles and not stated all the possible caveats? Very likely. It's not possible to think of them all, and it would be overkill to state them every time if you could.

The post in question begins with the statement "I just posted this on ... ... ... blog but thought it'd make sense here too". It was openly pasted in from someone's blog. No "judgement" needed about about that, surely, when it's even been openly admitted?

Have you never posted anything to a blog to generate discussion? Have you never seen anyone else do it? If you have, then you know that argument is bootless.

I've sent emails to my subscribers that were intended to do nothing BUT generate conversation with them. There are plenty of people here who can attest to that.

The post in question is very relevant to discussion in this forum, for a lot of reasons. Some of which the moderators deal with on a daily basis. The notion that it would generate significant useful discussion seems to have been borne out as well.

can you understand people who were so quick to pay $60 for the privilege of posting articles in the forum's article folder looking somewhat askance at blog-posts of this length being so openly pasted in to this part of the forum?

Yep.

I can also see where their opinion of the very few exceptions that are allowed would be colored by their having paid. That, despite the fact that they have far more room for posting in the article section than anyone would ever get in main discussion.

Martin,

If people start to get the impression that "anything goes" it will undermine the member moderator system.

I would guess we delete 95% or better of what are reported as articles. If that looks like "anything goes," it's a clear sign that someone's applying a literalist standard. That can lead to all sorts of undesirable excesses.

We take reports from members who've contributed significantly much more seriously. That said, there is no amount of member reporting that guarantees the mod who handles a post will agree. Most of the time, yes. But not all.

Checks and balances.

Paul

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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago

Thanks for your reply, Paul.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

The funny thing is that three of the people complaining about this know from personal experience that the majority of "articles" that are reported get nuked.

Yes; to be fair, I have to acknowledge this. I believe this was, in fact, the first time I've ever reported an article without it being removed.

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Bill,Oh?

Ask Willie how many of this thread starters have been deleted over the years because they were judged to be articles. If we're willing to delete stuff from a long-term member and ex-moderator, who exactly do you think is exempt?

I deleted a few of your threads for a while because you were on a tear to make a point, and you were overdoing it. That sort of thing sucks the oxygen out of the other conversations, and leaves important questions unanswered if it goes too far. That is not fair to the other members.

Moderation isn't just for moderators, sir.

For the record, I was not criticizing you, good sir.

LOL

A common mistake I know. The lack of facial expressions and nuance in a forum post makes some things appear to be an attack, when no attack was intended.

I have also mistaken statements to be directed at me, when they were not. It happens.

I was actually referring to those who are quick to hit the Report button on my posts, because I have rubbed them wrong at some point. I don't need to name names for you to know of whom I am speaking.

And I definitely don't believe that I should be exempted from any smack down at all.

I was simply suggesting that some people who dislike me might take a moment to consider that I am not always an asshole, jerk, clown, or pompous ass. Occasionally, I bring a whole new viewpoint to the conversation that is designed to get people to think about what they are saying and doing, to awaken people to different possibilities.

If I allow my alligator ego to unbalance my hummingbird ass, I definitely should be smacked. And I will realize why I was smacked, and all will be good.

I am sucking much less air in the forum right now. I have allowed my OCD tendencies to move me in other directions. I don't believe I will disappear for years from the forum as I had done previously, but I never know.

There is a real good reason why there are no video games on my computer. They are the first things I delete when I get a new machine.

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Bill Farnham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

I was simply suggesting that some people who dislike me might take a moment to consider that I am not always an asshole, jerk, clown, or pompous ass. Occasionally, I bring a whole new viewpoint to the conversation that is designed to get people to think about what they are saying and doing, to awaken people to different possibilities.

Well, your current rate of around 1,000 posts a month puts a lot of exposure on your name.

And since you are a very talented writer you're probably suffering from other's bouts of jealousy every now and then.

And for the record...I like your posts.

~Bill

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Bill Farnham

And since you are a very talented writer you're probably suffering from other's bouts of jealousy every now and then.

I doubt that people are actually motivated by jealousy.

Except for my writing skills, I don't offer much that would give people any cause to be jealous.

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Mike Hlatky

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Except for my writing skills, I don't offer much that would give people any cause to be jealous.

I thought it was your dashing good looks?

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Hlatky

Originally Posted by tpw

Except for my writing skills, I don't offer much that would give people any cause to be jealous.

I thought it was your dashing good looks?

Whaa?

I talk like a frog, and I look like one too...

I just need some beautiful princess to come and kiss me, and my life will finally be whole...

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Alexa Smith Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

We've said lots of times, it's a judgment call.

I understood that the "judgement call" related to whether or not something was an article, Paul?

That's certainly what you've said in the past.

I understand and accept completely that that can require judgement, and is therefore, by definition, a "judgement call".

This instance was clearly very different, I think you'll agree?

The post in question begins with the statement "I just posted this on ... ... ... blog but thought it'd make sense here too". It was openly pasted in from someone's blog. No "judgement" needed about about that, surely, when it's even been openly admitted?

Another question, if I may, if you're still in "responsive mode" here (and I admit I won't blame you at all, if you're not, because the issue's undeniably had plenty of debate for the relatively "slight" matter it is!): can you understand people who were so quick to pay $60 for the privilege of posting articles in the forum's article folder looking somewhat askance at blog-posts of this length being so openly pasted in to this part of the forum?
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George Wright

13 years ago

I know for a fact that the rules haven't changed regarding posting articles and or giving away free ebooks on the main forum.

The reason I know this is because I see MOST of those two types of posts quickly disappear.

However in both cases "some" are allowed regardless of reporting them. That can be proven too.

What I love about this place is that we (members) can report a misplaced post and forget it. Once we've done our part it's up to 1. other members to report it to make it disappear after the magic number of reports (I think the magic number is 3 but I can't prove it)

or 2. an "official" mod sees the report, agrees with the report and deletes it.

I can't think of a better system to keep the main page on topic without articles and free giveaways.

I remember the Warrior Forum when ALL posts had to be moderated and approved BEFORE they went live. That was not fun.

George Wright

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Paul Myers 13 years ago

George,

I remember the Warrior Forum when ALL posts had to be moderated and approved BEFORE they went live. That was not fun.

Not for me, either.

The funny thing is that three of the people complaining about this know from personal experience that the majority of "articles" that are reported get nuked.

Paul
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tsuccess

13 years ago

I like the post, this is the type of info that I need to know.
( I didn't know whether I could post content such as articles or blog posts here. )

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Paul Myers 13 years ago

Originally Posted by tsuccess

I like the post, this is the type of info that I need to know.
( I didn't know whether I could post content such as articles or blog posts here. )

As a rule, don't.

It's been noted that this was an exception. The person who posted that piece knew exactly why she was posting it here, and it was relevant. It was also not something I can see as being in any way self-promotional.

Those things matter, and they're largely a function of experience in the forum.

Paul
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clever7

13 years ago

Wish we could really post our articles in the main discussion forum and get many backlinks just like that. Sweet dream.

Some people are using this tactic because they don’t care about rules. Other people simply ignore that they cannot use this method.

However, there are also a few people who want to help someone else, and this is why they post a link to one of their web pages. If the content is really helpful I don’t think we should mind because someone is breaking the rules. Rules have no elasticity. They are very narrow and cold.

On the other hand, rules are necessary. Otherwise, everyone will abuse of all the existent possibilities available at their disposal when they simply ignore the rules.

I believe that we must be tolerant when someone posts an article with the intention to help someone else understand something; unless they are overdoing it.

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Paul Myers 13 years ago

I believe that we must be tolerant when someone posts an article with the intention to help someone else understand something; unless they are overdoing it.

We also need to be very aware of the potential problems with exceptions. A lot of people, and not just the inexperienced, will read them as a change in the rules, or use them to justify doing things that can become real problems.

The fact that someone says they're doing something for the right intentions isn't a reason to make an exception. Anyone can say that, any time they want. It's the biggest justification offered for promoting products ("But my product really will help them!"), bashing people or products ("I'm just trying to help fellow Warriors avoid this scammer!"), promoting their own affiliate programs ("But it will make them money!"), and all manner of other things.

I am quite comfortable with having made the exception in regard to the thread in question. I've stated the reasons. But it's not an exception we make often. As soon as people get the notion that articles can be freely posted here, we get a flood of them, and they're not usually conducive to discussion.

Paul
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- ExRat 13 years ago
  
  Hi Paul,
  
  In the past I have called out and reported people who put an exact copy/paste of their blog post on here. I wasn't so focussed on whether it was 'an article', but more the fact that it's an exact copy/paste.
  
  I figured that if the blog post topic was so enlightening that it deserved the replication here to 'help warriors out', then in that case I could see no reason why the poster couldn't make a little extra effort in terms of adding some more points to encourage debate/discussion. Based on whichever came first (the 'chicken' blog post or the 'egg' forum post) they might have already received some feedback (comments) which could provide some extra information that gives a different perspective, for example.
  
  I was assuming that if it was a straight copy/paste, then apart from exceptional circumstances where the information was so enlightening and concise to such an extent that to add to it would devalue it, it was simply lazy duplication in order to get more exposure.
  
  And I then followed the 'if everyone did this (duplicated their blog posts here), what would happen to the discussion forum' approach and felt that ANY copy/paste was not helpful/considerate/likely to add value.
  
  I am wondering now if I was mistaken?
  
  I've seen many more than one of these copy/paste blog post threads popping up recently, but I don't report things as much if I observe that things appear to be becoming more commonplace and accepted.
  
  For example, one other thing I have noticed is the prevalence of recent threads started less for conversation/learning purposes, but rather ones where the OP is instructing readers of something that is more closed-ended. These threads tend to get a bunch of 'thanks for the great advice' replies and a cynic (like me) would note that they often resemble a presell to the WSO residing in the sig file.
  
  For the record, I don't have any kind of issues with anything that goes on here or any changes that may occur over time, not least because this place has been my number one site to visit ever since I've been online - which suggests I learn a lot here. I do miss some of the better types of debates I've had in the past and some of the posters who have gone quiet, but I also post less myself because my type of devil's advocacy seems less productive here nowadays.
  
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  Roger Davis
  
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  Paul Myers 13 years ago
  
  Roger,
  
  And I then followed the 'if everyone did this (duplicated their blog posts here), what would happen to the discussion forum' approach
  
  Absolutely the key question. In most cases, your assessment that this would be harmful would be correct.
  
  For those who might not have noticed it, the thread was Rachel Rofe's post about why she doesn't give away products or services for free. In that instance,I didn't feel it would be harmful at all. Definitely an exception to the rule, though.
  
  Same with anything that looks like a pre-sell. Those will almost always be deleted. Even if, as Martin points out happens, they start out as discussion/pointers and the selling part gets snuck in later. I've personally "thanked" people for constructive pointers and later ended up deleting the whole thread when they tried to steer it into a pre-sell.
  
  Context changes.
  
  Same with the debates. The context of the forum has changed over time, and it's harder to have those without various destructive or distracting influences derailing them. We've moved a long way from the "early adopters" that were here back in the day. That's neither good nor bad, but it is very different.
  
  Paul
  
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Can I Post All My Articles In The Main Discussion Forum And Get Loads Of Backlinks?

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