Well, this could be a couple of things, I have worked with some pretty flakey programmers before.

It could also be the way you handle them. I had an old boss that was very demanding or just didnt know how to talk the programmers correctly and they would do the same thing as your programmers.

I wish I could give you a good answer but I cant LOL.

We would look at their background like who they worked for and how long they worked for them. We would always look for someone with a college degree. We would make sure they are professional.

Heres the deal our most flakey programmer had a college degree at a very good college and he had worked for a top ten fortune 500 company for almost ten years.

Our best and most dependable programmer was a younger kid that wasnt even out of college yet. He was dedicated and wanted to work.

He now runs several web developmet companies in our area.

I think it boils down to the luck of the draw, but from what I know I would look for a younger person that really wants to prove himself. Just make sure they are capable of doing the job.

Hi Dana,

If you pick someone who enjoys programming, pay them enough and give them interesting jobs, then you shouldn't have any problems. Here are my tips:

1. Try and get someone to recommend a programmer.

2. Make sure you check their resume to see that they have the experience you need.

3. Check their references.

Do they disappear after they have completed your work? Your programmers might not be returning your emails because they are busy with other jobs.

Also, I guess that finding a good programmer to do work for you is pretty tricky because the best programmers rarely have to look for work.

I haven't worked with too many programmers, but quite a few outsourcers.

With outsourcers in general that work for more than just a quick 1 time job, I've found that getting daily updates helps keep them in line a LOT.

Though like mentioned before, if someone doesn't send an update, or let you know what's going on via Skype or make contact in some way... then maybe something horrible went wrong and you should check in to make sure they're ok. At least then you're not being an over bearing jerk who just didn't get their daily report

If I were looking for a quality programmer, I'd look for someone who has a bit of a track record online with other internet marketers. I have a few people that I use from time to time who have been recommended for being good at one thing or another, and I know every time I send those people an email.. if they have time the job will be done right.

I consider a quality job more important than a cheep job... though that is a lesson I learned the hard way online. Also... price doesn't always mean someone is better.

Good programmers are really hard to find these days. Try outsourcing your projects to some small software companies from countries like India. They keep getting new programmers when someone leaves. Working with individuals can be very risky.

I found mine here on WF.

I like finding people here ... for instance, my programmer partner has a rep here at WF, so I know that he isnt gonna screw it up. Its important to him.

Usually if other warriors have done business with them and they have been around here for awhile doing business without getting run off... they are pretty solid. My best project partners have come from WF.

People here know the deal.

If you need an INHOUSE one, I suggest Career Builder. My most high quality employees through the years have come from them.

Times I have left have been due to incessant meaningless tweaks, bad planning on their part, micro management, incessant calls, trying to usurp ownership of items, not paying enough. I have generally let it be known though. Nothing is worse than having someone stay on the phone, while you do sommething they asked for at the last minute and want now, and after having stayed up late, they call for tweaks a monkey could do, like wording on a contract.

If you are reasonable, clear, and pay a decent wage, most good programmers should stay with you. Then again, my company once had a LOCAL consultant CLAIM their grandmother died!

SURPRISINGLY popular for that culture. I mean I have been in the business about 30 years. The first 20, I NEVER heard of such a death, and it was a rather minor event. Well, in the past 10 years I have heard of no less than SIX deaths, and the person has to go home for 3 weeks! It is almost ALWAYS 3 weeks. I say almost because the last person changed it to FIVE weeks. HE was eventually fired though!

Anyway, that person CLAIMED their grandmother died, and we later found they simply found a job that paid a bit more. Meanwhile, **I** had to abandon my well deserved and already delayed vacation to do THEIR job.

BTW they were INDIAN, so don't think it was due to "american greed".

Steve

Amazing, how different perspectives change the way you look at any given situation, the thing here is this, and this is the number one thing you must have in any service situation "Communication"

If you are able to have a meaningful conversation with your client or with your programmer or for that matter with the guy that does your lawn, you can develop a relationship that will benefit you and your client.

When you talk and you make a promise make sure you follow through on that promise even if it is to get on skype and talk at a certain time, make sure you do what you say you will do.

Use, clear verbal and written communications, develop screen shots and screen videos if you have to so that you can be entirely sure that they understand what you want, again lack of communication is the number one issue that effects most every service industry.

Stay away from service providers that are not able to understand written communications, if you spell out a project step by step and they ask you what you mean, then you know that they just do not understand what you are saying.

You can overcome that issue but usually it will be very difficult if they cannot read what you write, document everything, from emails to skype conversations.

be firm but fair, and you will find that you can call on any number of service providers over time and they will work with you.

Again, thanks for the awesome information. You guys are the ones who give the wf a great name

Tim I am with you I think communication is the ticket. A clear set of objectives and or a contract so both parties know what is needed to be done.

But what if the communication is not so good. For instance, someone mentioned outsourcing to another country. The time difference alone i would think would cause a communication problem.

What would be the pros and cons of outsourcing to say India?

I do quite a lot of work for people in different time zones. I don't find that it is an issue, but then I make sure I have a clear understanding of the requirements. Also, the culture differences between where I live (New Zealand) and my clients (UK and USA) is not hugely different.

However, about 60% of the work I do is fixing projects that have been outsourced overseas in an attempt to save money. When I am fixing the work it is clear that there has been a misunderstanding between the vendor and supplier. Especially when the vendor does not have a great deal of technical knowledge.

I can't really say that there would be any pros/cons of outsourcing to India specifically. I guess if you are outsourcing to people that you can't sit down with in person and sort out problems, then you really need to be very specific in your project requirements.

I hope they haven't run off and stolen your idea like in the social network

Find some credible and good programmer at odesk, freelancer, or online jobs, there you can find the best and reputable programmer applicatns and bidder.

Hi Dana. A "good" software programmer will initially ask for a detailed list of your requirements. Then, the person will review your requirements with you and list down the specific tasks and prerequisite skills and knowledge needed for each task to be properly completed. Once you finalize a list of requirements for the software project: The person will formulate a time table and write a quote with payment terms, pricing and estimated completion date and time. The person will also send a list of previous work with characteristics relevant to your project. The person will also draft a subcontract with NDAs and NCAs as well as clear statements about project ownership and full exclusive rights. The person will ask you, the software project buyer, to make necessary amendments and changes to the subcontract until both parties agree with everything written in the subcontract. The person will then sign the subcontract and ask you to countersign it...

This is a question that gets asked quite a bit in the software industry too.
The distinction is often made between a "programmer" and a "developer".

Quoting from a very interesting discussion on StackOverflow.com:

Programming is the act of writing, compiling, testing and debugging source code.

Software development includes other activities like:

Requirements definition
Specification writing
Project planning
Creating an installation package
Troubleshooting problems during installation
and, and, and...

Therefore a programmer is a person who produces code, usually after some sort of specification. This is focused on a specific functionality.

A software developer is producing a solution for the customer, with a big focus on customer satisfaction.

So what you really want is a developer, not a programmer.
There may be a problem that you are hiring a "code monkey" rather than someone who is self directed, self managed etc.
You will have more management work to do with a programmer.

It may be more expensive, but you get more satisfaction from a developer.

Me personally? I do all the programming myself. I love programming - it is a useful skill and actually quite fun, in my opinion. I highly recommend you learn it yourself if you have any interest in the area.

If not, though, a few tips on getting a quality programmer:
-Make sure they ask you intelligent questions, such as "what are the requirements of the project", "what language will i be working in", and technical questions specific to your project.
-Test them out - have them do a small programming job first to evaluate their performance.

A good programmer will stay committed to whatever job he/she said he/she would do. But to increase focus you should definitely keep in contact. Ask for regular updates, and be engaged in the progress of the project. Form a close business relationship with your programmer - this mutual trust is important.

Programmers (and writers, web designers and others) abandon jobs when they realize they are working too cheaply. They always do the job that pays the best.

This is one of the reasons why it is not a good idea to work with people who are on the bottom of the heap and willing to work for peanuts. There are exceptions maybe (not many, I'd say), but you get professional service from people who work for professional level fees.

The two times I abandoned clients was because they were driving me crazy. I didn't even take their money. I didn't want anything further to do with them.

So, what's my point? Communication is good, but don't over do it. Be clear and don't keep changing your requests. If they tell you it will be difficult, believe them.
BUT, if they seem too confident and say it will be easy, don't always believe them.

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