What You Don't Want To Hear

12 years ago

Good post, I've always been a crow - swooping in on any shiny new object which I fly over.

But at least I never put all my stock in some millions-with-zero-work product, I've always been happy to do some kind of work for a future payment. I make money in my head before I collect it in real life, later on

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Derek Soto

12 years ago

I could not have said it better myself, I wish I knew this when I first started, would have saved me tons of time and money chasing my own tail, but back then I would not have understood or even listened to this advice. It is when people truly understand this that they start to see consistent and growing success. good stuff.

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Zeus66

12 years ago

Originally Posted by ricocrownmedia

I could not have said it better myself, I wish I knew this when I first started, would have saved me tons of time and money chasing my own tail, but back then I would not have understood or even listened to this advice. It is when people truly understand this that they start to see consistent and growing success. good stuff.

Yep. The desire for the easy money nonsense to be true is maybe the most powerful desire there is when it comes to making money online. It's one of those things that too many have to learn the hard way before it finally sinks in. Too bad we don't have a gene that makes us get all excited over the idea of rolling up our sleeves and working hard.

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paulie888

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Zeus66

Yep. The desire for the easy money nonsense to be true is maybe the most powerful desire there is when it comes to making money online. It's one of those things that too many have to learn the hard way before it finally sinks in. Too bad we don't have a gene that makes us get all excited over the idea of rolling up our sleeves and working hard.

Work has almost become a four letter word in many circles, and this explains why you see one crappy "pushbutton make money overnight" product after another, and I feel that this "make money overnight" mentality has evolved into an elusive urban legend, where you see legions of "believers" chasing after this dream and having this irresistible attraction to the bright, shiny objects constantly being thrown their way.

In order to become successful at internet marketing, you need to have discipline and a strong work ethic. Period. Don't be fooled by all these stories of overnight riches and sitting around by the pool all day long - while one can get to the point where this internet lifestyle is a reality, for many people it will take a long time to attain this, and some may never get there. Can you discipline yourself to do whatever it takes to reach this goal?

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shireen

12 years ago

Hi:

Shireen here :-)

This is a great post! I totally agree...

That's no push button solution to internet marketing, it requires lots of hard work especially as a beginner.

Thank you :-)

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aaronngoh

12 years ago

Originally Posted by shireen

Hi:

Shireen here :-)

This is a great post! I totally agree...

That's no push button solution to internet marketing, it requires lots of hard work especially as a beginner.

Thank you :-)

There is push button solution but you have to create that button yourself. Push it many times until it really hit the jackpot.

So start creating it now!

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Steve Faber

12 years ago

All true, and very well said. To make yourself a success in this business does require hard work, learning from failure, and taking the lessons you learned and improving your process (you DO have a process, right??) until things are paying off for you.

Don't just learn and do, but build great business relationships with others, be they competitors or not. In time, your competitors may become collaborators, and some of your best friends both in business and in life.

To get there however, is going to take rolling up your sleeves, closing the cover on that last shiny, new WSO you bought, and putting to use what you've learned, over and over again, until you really are doing that what you've been dreaming about. It's not going to happen today or tomorrow though. An instant success in this business is typically anything but. You don't see the months or years of work they've already put in to achieve it.

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Old Dog New Tricks

12 years ago

I have said it before and all the posts on this thread are very realistic. The Internet is a tool. If you like the tool you can create art with it and it may seem easy if your talents fall along the skills needed to Market first and on the Internet second. If you don't like selling and are afraid to ask for the sale you will have problems selling. If you are a geek then do the geek stuff.

If you like sculpting sculpt something and sell it wholesale to a marketer or hire a marketer to sell it for you. If you can make a house, make it then hire a realitor to sell it. You got to find what your good at then do it. If you are good at it then the market will find you.

just because a guru has a talent and makes money online doesn't mean every one can.

To put it simply, find a simple thing that you are good at and then do it extraordinarily well. The world will come to you. Just be realistic and keep doing it. Don't try to be something your not. You can make a fortune digging holes.

Old Dog

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Zeus66

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Tricks

To put it simply, find a simple thing that you are good at and then do it extraordinarily well. The world will come to you. Just be realistic and keep doing it. Don't try to be something your not. You can make a fortune digging holes.
Old Dog

That's a good point in this discussion. There are lots of services someone could offer that marketers need to have done. Anyone enterprising enough to get serious about being the best at any of those services could do well without ever risking a big investment or buying a bunch of pie-in-the-sky WSO's. It's a good starting point (providing a service to IM'ers). Earn while you're learning instead of just being a sponge and spending a ton of money on fantasies.

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Canuckystan 12 years ago

Great post. So many people assume that X thousand of searches on X topic means X dollars. They forget that it is truly hard to get consumers to part with money on the net or anywhere. Getting a surfer to click "checkout" is a major accomplishment and not at all easy.
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misterkailo

12 years ago

I still haven't bought one single WSO yet. I agree with this post though.

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Jacqueline Smith

12 years ago

Great post!

Should be a 'must read' for all newbies.

Thanks for your brutal honesty John.....it's a great reminder for everyone.

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lesterlim85

12 years ago

John is certainly spot on! I have seen so many WSOs which promised the sky and when when you actually go into it,you found that they are actually crap.

Not to discount the quality WSOs though, if fellow warriors bought and not put the learning into actions.

I'm terribly mystified and felt unbalanced when I see so many junk WSOs being held in high regards, selling like hot cakes when they promise monster traffic, excellent conversions,push button solutions. Worst of all, I saw one or two of them being chosen as WSO of The Day.

Ok I might have digressed a bit, but in a nutshell I concur with John that we will certainly need to put in effort to receive rewards. Don't buy into push button solutions too much, and be ready to work hard for your own success!

Cheers,
Lester

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nakmuay7

12 years ago

i agree people who promise the earth and tell you there is no work involved are just wasting your time.

Everyone can do this internet marketing but it takes time effort and commitment!

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Anthony Scorza

12 years ago

As usual John, you make valid points with great flair, and this isn't aimed at you in particular, but i do feel that the impact of your post, and others like this, is diluted by the big red arrows in your sig pointing to no fewer than 3 WSO's.

I know the two things are not necessarily connected, but you can see how the less experienced may feel they're getting mixed messages.

I guess the moral is to view the WSO section as potentially valuable, but to be very selective when you get there.

And yes, if something's offering huge rewards for no effort, then avoid it, unless as John says, you can afford to get it just to satisfy your curiosity.

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Zeus66

12 years ago

Originally Posted by ascor

As usual John, you make valid points with great flair, and this isn't aimed at you in particular, but i do feel that the impact of your post, and others like this, is diluted by the big red arrows in your sig pointing to no fewer than 3 WSO's.

I know the two things are not necessarily connected, but you can see how the less experienced may feel they're getting mixed messages.

I guess the moral is to view the WSO section as potentially valuable, but to be very selective when you get there.

And yes, if something's offering huge rewards for no effort, then avoid it, unless as John says, you can afford to get it just to satisfy your curiosity.

I want to avoid self-promotion here, but I need to point out that the WSO's I offer (in my sig and elsewhere) are never about getting rich quick. In fact, I usually point out in the sales page that if that's what you want, my offer is not for you. So no hypocrisy or mixed messages coming from me.

But your point is well taken. So I want to clarify... As I say at the beginning of the OP, what I say applies to some people and not to others. It is the others that I try to target in my own WSO's.

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Anthony Scorza

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Zeus66

I want to avoid self-promotion here, but I need to point out that the WSO's I offer (in my sig and elsewhere) are never about getting rich quick. In fact, I usually point out in the sales page that if that's what you want, my offer is not for you. So no hypocrisy or mixed messages coming from me.

But your point is well taken. So I want to clarify... As I say at the beginning of the OP, what I say applies to some people and not to others. It is the others that I try to target in my own WSO's.

Absolutely John, i'm on your list and can vouch for that.

I guess I should clarify that my point was a general one, and not aimed at you specifically.

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Michael Shook

12 years ago

I used to buy shiny stuff. New and all ablaze with copywriting ferocity. Only to find that most times, there was nothing in the product that would help me.

Then I realized that what I needed more than anything else was a clear vision of what it was I wanted. Then I had to be willing to decide (based on past experience) if spending money on something new was going to get me where I wanted to go. And if it wasn't, then to not buy the product.

It was harder than I thought it was going to be willing to decide to change that thinking. Clear vision really helped.

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JohnMcCabe

12 years ago

John, you keep throwing around that four-letter "W" word like a late night lounge comic with his F-bombs.

Seriously, back in the day I heard a presentation by one of those MLM top-earner guys. Part of that has stuck with me to this day.

He said much what you did, that in the beginning when you're first building and learning, you have to put the work in. In IM, that work can sometimes be mind-numbingly boring. It can turn your brain to mush. But compared to digging ditches or scrubbing toilets, it isn't all that hard...

It just takes the moxie to keep going. Write one more article. Research one more niche. Reach out to one more authority blogger about guest posting. Approach one more potential affiliate. Just one more. Then do it again.

You'll find that as you keep stacking those 'one mores' higher and higher, the view gets better and better. The crowd thins out, and as you look around, you see the other people who stacked up their own 'one mores'.

Quit reading and start stacking...

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paulie888

12 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

John, you keep throwing around that four-letter "W" word like a late night lounge comic with his F-bombs.

Seriously, back in the day I heard a presentation by one of those MLM top-earner guys. Part of that has stuck with me to this day.

He said much what you did, that in the beginning when you're first building and learning, you have to put the work in. In IM, that work can sometimes be mind-numbingly boring. It can turn your brain to mush. But compared to digging ditches or scrubbing toilets, it isn't all that hard...

It just takes the moxie to keep going. Write one more article. Research one more niche. Reach out to one more authority blogger about guest posting. Approach one more potential affiliate. Just one more. Then do it again.

You'll find that as you keep stacking those 'one mores' higher and higher, the view gets better and better. The crowd thins out, and as you look around, you see the other people who stacked up their own 'one mores'.

Quit reading and start stacking...

John, you paint a gritty and realistic picture of what it's like to be in the 'trenches' of IM, at least initially. It's mind-numbing, boring, tedious, and often makes you want to tear your hair out. It's all about fast implementation and testing out what works - it is far from fun or exciting in the beginning.

When you think about it, it's not really different from a professional career in any field. There's many years of studying and practice before someone gets to be a lawyer who steps into the courtroom, or before a surgeon gets to operate on his first patient. This initial phase is boring, hard and causes many to give up, just like IM.

The only real difference here is that you can do IM from anywhere you choose, and at literally any time you'd like. There's no physical labor of any kind involved, and you can go at your own pace. The only drawback here is that you have no deadlines or anyone breathing down your neck, and you have to be really disciplined and focused if you're going to make any headway in IM.

Paul

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scrofford

12 years ago

You mean....? Wow! I thought...and was told...wow...This really takes work? No wonder the "cash" button on my desktop doesn't work! I was told all I have to do is push a button and my computer would spit out all this cash! I was scammed! WOW!

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TiffLee

12 years ago

It makes any difference at all, I'm very proud to say that I have never purchased a WSO and I still do fairly well in IM.

Sometimes educating yourself is the best way to go.

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ankur sharma

12 years ago

Excellent post. Seriously, i wanted to write something like this. But didnt write, because i know this will break lot of hearts. Really good post. I also want to add something.

It is not that job is a bad thing. We all entrepreneurs make "job" look something which is very very bad. But for some people job is very good. Lets take an example of engineers working in silicon valley. They got a job and they make nice chunk of money. The best part, if company fails, they can move on to another job.

However, here you have to do all the work. You have to be product creator yourself, accountant, marketer, outsourcer, disciplined and ton of other stuff.

In job, you can say , i did my "small part, now i do not know what other dept does with it. You can walk away from it. But here you cant.

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Rod Cortez

12 years ago

Solid post John. Sadly though, the people that need to heed it probably won't. In fact, they probably bought a WSO after they read your post.

RoD

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ankur sharma 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Rod Cortez

Solid post John. Sadly though, the people that need to heed it probably won't. In fact, they probably bought a WSO after they read your post.

RoD

Ha ha that is so true. See if allen allow you to post this thread in wso section. Coz this should be sticky there.
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Raindance

12 years ago

A brilliant post. Just few minutes ago, I was thinking all these IM products are like that scroll in the "KungFu Panda" movie. In the movie, everyone thinks it contains secrets of the universe to make you superficially strong but when it is ultimately opened, the panda finds nothing but a reflection of himself. And all the IM products are not too different from that scroll. If you've spent enough time on this forum, you'll notice that even the WSOs and the other products are not much different from what people discuss in here everyday. If there is anything new in the world of internet marketing then remember that "this" world is too small for it remain as a secret under one guy's pillow. Of course from time to time, some great discoveries are made but they spread as soon as they are out.

From my own experience I'd like to say that if you put your efforts in the right directions then you'll definitely see success. There are people who've spent hours and waited for months to see some sales but they did not and that was only because their approach was not specific.

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sbucciarel

Banned 12 years ago

Great post. Many will still hold on to their beliefs that you can "Get Rich Quick" with little to no work. That is what they want to believe. That is what they are told and they really aren't into this to do any real work. They're not here to learn to build a sustainable business. They are here for one reason only. They think there's a fast, easy road to riches. Many of them have their noses sunk so deeply into the WSO forum, they won't ever even see this post or others like it.

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Raindance

12 years ago

Lets all contribute a dollar and post this thread in the WSO section.

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Linda_C

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Zeus66

You're not going to get rich buying WSO's that promise lots of money with very little work. You're just going to get poorer, spending money you probably can't afford on a dream that isn't real.

Stop doing it....

I get what you're saying, John. I do. But you only addressed half the problem.

In the WSO rules, it says:

4. Anyone Caught Scamming Members Will Be Deleted From This Forum Entirely. (obviously)

5. If By Chance You Do Get Scammed By Someone The Problem Is Between You And Them. Not The Forum. Not The MOD's. And Not The Forum Owner. If you get scammed you deal with the person that scammed you. That's just the way it has to be. You have zero protection in here just like you have zero protection on the rest of the Internet.

Which is it? Scammers are booted? Or you're on your own if you get scammed? Because those two appear to contradict each other, unless there's some odd middle ground that I don't know about.

So how does it work? We tell newbies not to fall for bush button solutions, but it's okay to sell them? And if they do buy something that's crap, it's not okay to call the seller out? Or what?

Have you looked at the number of $$ signs just on the first page of the WSO forum? Stuff like;
-Beta tester made $10,000 in 1 month
-$40,416 in ONE MONTH
-$100K In JUST The Past 4 Months!
-1 Week, $1100

And we expect newbies who come here, often looking for a path out of their financial problems, to ignore the promises of easy wealth, right? To remember the old adage that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. That's what we expect them to know. Right? But it's okay to post those offers.

Every time there's a problem - we are part of the problem or part of the solution. Sometimes we're part of the problem by keeping our mouths shut.

Yes - there is a problem with people buying low quality WSOs that promise the moon and the stars for a few bucks. But the problem isn't just the people buying them. It's also the people selling them.

Do you think THEY know who they are, too?

Where's their call out? Because while I'm all for telling newbies to stop buying junk and chasing dreams - to roll up their sleeves and build a BUSINESS -- I think the people hawking with too much hype need a call out, too.

Probably not a popular opinion, but I think it needs to be said.

Originally Posted by nakmuay7

i agree people who promise the earth and tell you there is no work involved are just wasting your time...

Nak, they're doing more than wasting your time. They are wasting your money, too. Some of them do it because they don't know better. Others intentionally deceive and make a living by preying on newbies. To me, preying on newbies is the lowest form of marketing. HELPING newbies is an approach that has far more longevity and creates a better reputation in the long run.

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sbucciarel

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Linda_C

I get what you're saying, John. I do. But you only addressed half the problem.

In the WSO rules, it says:

Which is it? Scammers are booted? Or you're on your own if you get scammed? Because those two appear to contradict each other, unless there's some odd middle ground that I don't know about.

So how does it work? We tell newbies not to fall for bush button solutions, but it's okay to sell them? And if they do buy something that's crap, it's not okay to call the seller out? Or what?

And we expect newbies who come here, often looking for a path out of their financial problems, to ignore the promises of easy wealth, right? To remember the old adage that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. That's what we expect them to know. Right? But it's okay to post those offers.

Every time there's a problem - we are part of the problem or part of the solution. Sometimes we're part of the problem by keeping our mouths shut.

Yes - there is a problem with people buying low quality WSOs that promise the moon and the stars for a few bucks. But the problem isn't just the people buying them. It's also the people selling them.

Do you think THEY know who they are, too?

Where's their call out? Because while I'm all for telling newbies to stop buying junk and chasing dreams - to roll up their sleeves and build a BUSINESS -- I think the people hawking with too much hype need a call out, too.

Probably not a popular opinion, but I think it needs to be said.

People who lie, cheat and steal are nothing new and not exclusive to Internet Marketing. No one can be the ethics police and make it their lifetime work to eliminate it ... except the FTC and other agencies devoted to that task.

The WF rules aren't contradictory. If you are actually scammed, as in you didn't receive what you paid for, you can contact the help desk and the WSO will be removed. I've seen it happen numerous times.

However, Allen will not be sending you a check to reimburse you and you may not start a big 'OH NO, I'VE BEEN SCAMMED'

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sbucciarel

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Linda_C

I get what you're saying, John. I do. But you only addressed half the problem.

In the WSO rules, it says:

Which is it? Scammers are booted? Or you're on your own if you get scammed? Because those two appear to contradict each other, unless there's some odd middle ground that I don't know about.

So how does it work? We tell newbies not to fall for bush button solutions, but it's okay to sell them? And if they do buy something that's crap, it's not okay to call the seller out? Or what?

And we expect newbies who come here, often looking for a path out of their financial problems, to ignore the promises of easy wealth, right? To remember the old adage that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. That's what we expect them to know. Right? But it's okay to post those offers.

Every time there's a problem - we are part of the problem or part of the solution. Sometimes we're part of the problem by keeping our mouths shut.

Yes - there is a problem with people buying low quality WSOs that promise the moon and the stars for a few bucks. But the problem isn't just the people buying them. It's also the people selling them.

Do you think THEY know who they are, too?

Where's their call out? Because while I'm all for telling newbies to stop buying junk and chasing dreams - to roll up their sleeves and build a BUSINESS -- I think the people hawking with too much hype need a call out, too.

Probably not a popular opinion, but I think it needs to be said.

People who lie, cheat and steal are nothing new and not exclusive to Internet Marketing. No one can be the ethics police and make it their lifetime work to eliminate it ... except the FTC and other agencies devoted to that task.

The WF rules aren't contradictory. If you are actually scammed, as in you didn't receive what you paid for, you can contact the help desk and the WSO will be removed. I've seen it happen numerous times.

However, Allen will not be sending you a check to reimburse you and you may not start a big 'OH NO, I'VE BEEN SCAMMED' thread in the WF and call them out. You can post your experience, if you are a buyer, in their WSO thread.

While people want to live in lala land ... where no one lies, cheats or steals, there's no place on earth that exists where that's the way it is.

People do have to smarten up and be responsible for what they purchase. While you say ... they are here because people tell them you can 'GET RICH QUICK WITH NO WORK', by the same token, the opportunistic marketers are hawking the 'GET RICH QUICK WITH NO WORK' because that's exactly what the Dreamers want to hear. It's called providing the market with what they want.

The job of Internet babysitter is just too large to handle. The burden of getting a clue has to be on the buyer.

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Steven Wagenheim 12 years ago

John, you gotta stop playing with those monkeys. I think they're affecting
your brain.

Seriously, what people really don't want to hear is that the American Dream
is not what has turned into the American Promise or American Guarantee.

People today believe that they're entitled to that big house or fancy car and
that they shouldn't have to work for it. If you don't believe me, take a look
at the lottery lines and casino crowds. Hell, in Vegas, they even gamble at
the airports.

Nobody wants to hear that there are no guarantees in life other than one
day you're going to die.

Because when you have to admit that, you then have to admit that you
have to roll up your sleeves and get to work...real work.

No, life is only glamorous for the movie stars.

And even most of them had to work to get to where they are.
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Zeus66 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Linda_C

So how does it work? We tell newbies not to fall for bush button solutions, but it's okay to sell them?

When people stop falling for the push button riches fantasy, the selling part of your question will take care of itself. Those things won't sell. Then in short order we'll see who really "walks the talk" and who doesn't. I can't wait for that day, but I'm not holding my breath.
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sbucciarel

Banned 12 years ago

Kim Standerline posted a link in this thread to this highly relevant, well written article by Michael Fortin, Web Wolves, Whores, Vagabonds, and Fools
http://www.michelfortin.com/web-wolv...gabonds-fools/

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Steven Wagenheim

12 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Kim Standerline posted a link in this thread to this highly relevant, well written article by Michael Fortin, Web Wolves, Whores, Vagabonds, and Fools
http://www.michelfortin.com/web-wolv...gabonds-fools/

Great article...so true

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mark healy

12 years ago

great post i totally agree with it

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msmir75

12 years ago

I have fallen for those schemes before, not anymore. Thanks for the post as this is a must read for anyone who wants to go into IM.

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davez 12 years ago

Agreed 100%, I used to be WSO junkie still have quite a bit of dust on the hard drive. However there's some I've used to build a nice business.

The new WSO's are all setup so the price keeps increasing, in my mind that kills the original spirit of WSO's.

My Peeve is how's it a WSO if the first guy gets it cheaper than the 20th guy, it's no longer a WSO then is it. It's beyond me how anyone could think anything else.

I'm sure the argument to come, is don't buy it then.

My answer: I DON'T!

Great Post I hope you help a few people, cut through the noise..
- Thanks
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omk

12 years ago

Great post. I think the reason many people believe that there is a magic "push button system" is because it is relatively easy, once you know how. The problem is that they are never shown all the hard work and sacrifice it takes to get to that stage.

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paulie888

12 years ago

Originally Posted by omk

Great post. I think the reason many people believe that there is a magic "push button system" is because it is relatively easy, once you know how. The problem is that they are never shown all the hard work and sacrifice it takes to get to that stage.

We unfortunately live in an age of instant gratification, where people are accustomed to getting what they want immediately. So there are many out there who think internet marketing is going to be just like that (especially in today's social media age where everything happens instantly and you get to hear about things as they occur), but unfortunately they don't realize that the internet is just another medium in which to do business - and all businesses need time to develop and grow.

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Sweely99

12 years ago

Solid stuff, John! It's all about taking action.

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Meharis

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Zeus66

Stop doing it.

It's not for pu&&ies. OK? It's not. Frankly, some of you reading this don't have what it takes. Save your money. Stop buying all the new shiny promises.
Being your own boss is tough. It takes discipline. It takes balls.

Can you do that? Can you?

Stop buying the crap that promises $25,000 a month from pushing a few buttons. It's a lie. All you're doing it enriching people who are cynically playing you.

Then do it. To the exclusion of all the rest. See it through. Don't start one other project or idea until you follow the first one through to the end (win or lose).

Can you discipline yourself to ignore the shiny new objects that come along literally every day? It's incredibly difficult for many of us. But it still has to be done.

OK, that's enough. But it's enough. This is what you won't hear from many other marketers. Some of them want you to believe that it's easy, and that all you need is their next new thing. They need you to believe it because it's how they make their money. Stop giving them your money and answer these hard questions for yourself. No one else can. And until you do, you'll just continue throwing good money after bad and enriching BS artists who laugh at you about it.

John

I'm sorry Zeus66. I don't think that will be happening near soon.
Why? The same was happening before the Internet arrived. How?
With "Mail Order How To Make Money Systems"
My suggestion to this person will be that rather the spend money in
every new shining object, they must make an investing by going to
a psychologist to solve the problem they have.
Later on, this person will in a much better position to start a project.
I really mean it from the bottom of my heart.
Meharis

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lesterlim85

12 years ago

I don't think it is viable for someone to go see a psychologist to solve the "problem". How much more $ will they need to spend to "cure the problem".

It is inevitable for any newbie or even intermediate marketers alike to be attracted to shiny objects because of several reasons:

1) They have not made money/only made little money
2) They are learning freaks and want to constantly learn about new tricks and tips to add on to their toolchest
3) etc...

Instead of saying they have a problem, we should say it is just human nature for them to want to take shortcuts to success when they are just starting out, because of the fact that they are yearning for the internet lifestyle.

For instance, Rich Strefren (spelling) who was a mentor to many IM gurus such as Mike Filaisme and Frank Kern started out with the same route as many of us. Note that before starting out in IM he was already a very successful and almost a genious offline businessman bringing in millions for the companies he was managing.

So what is my point? My point is, for anyone starting out in a new arena which is out of their usual comfort zone they tend to be more vulnerable and easily falling for the easy way out route. But with the many advices such as John's and those in these threads, hopefully they can learn from them and follow a path to their own business strategy and success. Stop falling for the magic push button and only get quality WSOs which can help them in their business direction and they should be quite well taken care of.

Some of you might not agree but it's just my 2 cents worth.

Cheers,
Lester

Originally Posted by Meharis

I'm sorry Zeus66. I don't think that will be happening near soon.
Why? The same was happening before the Internet arrived. How?
With "Mail Order How To Make Money Systems"
My suggestion to this person will be that rather the spend money in
every new shining object, they must make an investing by going to
a psychologist to solve the problem they have.
Later on, this person will in a much better position to start a project.
I really mean it from the bottom of my heart.
Meharis

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Meharis

12 years ago

Originally Posted by lesterlim85

I don't think it is viable for someone to go see a psychologist to solve the "problem". How much more $ will they need to spend to "cure the problem".

It is inevitable for any newbie or even intermediate marketers alike to be attracted to shiny objects because of several reasons:

1) They have not made money/only made little money
2) They are learning freaks and want to constantly learn about new tricks and tips to add on to their toolchest
3) etc...

Instead of saying they have a problem, we should say it is just human nature for them to want to take shortcuts to success when they are just starting out, because of the fact that they are yearning for the internet lifestyle.

For instance, Rich Strefren (spelling) who was a mentor to many IM gurus such as Mike Filaisme and Frank Kern started out with the same route as many of us. Note that before starting out in IM he was already a very successful and almost a genious offline businessman bringing in millions for the companies he was managing.

So what is my point? My point is, for anyone starting out in a new arena which is out of their usual comfort zone they tend to be more vulnerable and easily falling for the easy way out route. But with the many advices such as John's and those in these threads, hopefully they can learn from them and follow a path to their own business strategy and success. Stop falling for the magic push button and only get quality WSOs which can help them in their business direction and they should be quite well taken care of.

Some of you might not agree but it's just my 2 cents worth.

Cheers,
Lester

I'm not trying to argue with you by no means but, I think you missed my point of view.
This is a fact of life. The problem did not start because Internet.
The problem existed when the "shiny object" was "Mail Order System" (before you were born)
and people was having exactly the same behavior.
My comment was directed to the people not being able to follow Zeus66 suggestion.
They either don't have the will power to do it or worst yet, don't realize
they do have a problem.
Meharis

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Zeus66

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Meharis

I'm not trying to argue with you by no means but, I think you missed my point of view.
This is a fact of life. The problem did not start because Internet.
The problem existed when the "shiny object" was "Mail Order System" (before you were born)
and people was having exactly the same behavior.
My comment was directed to the people not being able to follow Zeus66 suggestion.
They either don't have the will power to do it or worst yet, don't realize
they do have a problem.
Meharis

I bolded the crucial part of your reply. It is about will power and discipline. It takes a strong determination to ignore the circus going on with all the new promises and guarantees of quick riches. It's like staying in to do that report that has to be finished vs. going out to play with your friends when you were a kid. You have to fight constantly. It's a war when you work online. Make no mistake, it is all-out war inside your head sometimes.

And yes, some people are not even aware that they have a problem. They think they just haven't found the right thing to buy yet. They think they need to buy more until the find that magic bullet. Eventually, they either get uber-cynical and brand everything a scam or they run out of money and give up. Or... something finally clicks and a thread like this one finally overcomes all their objections and they finally embrace reality: this is hard work and the riches don't come quickly or easily.

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Zanti

12 years ago

John, great thread you've started.

The problem is, it's just to simple to be true.

There has to be some type of secret, mysterious software or special code one can insert into wordpress, that can turn mere mortals into IM super heroes in 3 easy steps, with a money back guarantee. Starting NOW! Just click here for a one time cost of $97.

I mean, there just can't be normal, everyday people like you who make a living in IM. You guys have to have something you're not telling everybody else. And we all know it's hidden in many of the wso's, it has to be so, because we believe it to be so, therefore it is so. We all know an everyday guy or gal could never get rich just by working hard, how dumb do you think we are.

That's the trick all the rich people what us to believe, "oh, just put in hard work". We know it's not true... just have to get the right wso and I'll prove my point and I know its going to be in the next wso I buy.

So how do people start believing this way. I think for some, they've heard about or read "The Secret" or other books of the type, but didn't fully understand them. If you believe it, you can have it. You want money, homes, cars, fast women or slow handed men, just attract them to you. You deserve it. And Steven, here it comes... You're entitled to it.

And you know what, one can do this, but not in the way many people think it's done.

The real secret is, it's "Simple."

John, it's the same reason why your first post just can't be true. It's to simple, there has to be something far more complicated.

More like the IM secret I recently found out about.

Please don't share this with anyone. I mean it! I know some people, who know some people, and well, for your sake, just don't share what I'm about to reveal.

I paid $297 for this secret that went out to just a special few on a special list and I was one of the special few. Oh, I got the early bird special by the way, that's the reason for the great price of $297 and the seller assured me that the price was going up to $997 soon, so I had to jump on it when I did. Man I saved a lot of money on this one, I do feel bad for those who ended up paying $997, but hey, you snooze you lose. I'm a pretty smart cookie some times, don't you think.

Alright, here's the secret key to IM riches: You take how much you think you'll make in 30 days, getting a 3% conversion from your target keyword and multiply that by 15% of the number of articles approved in one month, minus exactly 38.4%, divided by the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.

That's it, genius I know. As soon as I get around to doing this, and taking massive action, I'll be wealthy in six weeks, hanging out on the beach with Frank Kern, and then I'll write my own wso, and make mo' money, mo' money.

But first I just got this other wso an hour ago, that will really help me implement this secret and stuff from the other 8 wso's I got this week.

Here's my truth of IM.
IM is simple, but it's not easy.
IM is simple and it's easy.
IM is simple and will always present one with challenges.
IM is simple.

I've been teaching and training in the martial arts for over 25 years now. New students come in wanting to get a black belt because they saw some really cool moves in a video game or movie and what to learn how to do it.

As I work with them in their first class, I show them at some point a strong front stance, and they say, "it hurts and it's hard." I tell them, "keep at it, keep doing it and soon it won't be so hard." They say, "but I don't want to do this hard stuff, I want to do the things like in the movies."

I tell them they have to have a strong foundation, be dedicated, and never, never give up. This is where you start, in-order to do what you "Say" you want. Some understand it. Some never do, they're the ones still trying to find the right book or video to teach them what they "Say" they want to do, but without putting in the effort.

Here's what it takes to succeed in martial arts and in IM.

One of my best students is a small 12 years old boy, by the name of Maverick. One class I was really pushing the students to go past what they thought they could and see what happens on the other side if they do.

Among other challenges, they had a number of push-ups to do at the end and most dropped out, saying it was either two hard or they just gave up.

Maverick reached a point when he didn't think he could go on, his arms were shaking, tears were coming out of his eyes, but he was determine to finish, as we loudly encouraged him... And finish he did.

He never gave up, even when he though he couldn't go on. What Maverick learned that day was, if he believed in himself and didn't accept any self-imposed limitations he could achieve what he set out to achieve. (80% mental/20% physical)

I have to say that watching this young boy, with his body trembling and tears coming from his eyes, show the courage of a warrior, brought tears to my eyes then and even now when I think of it. Why, because he has what it takes to achieve whatever he wants in life.

I love that I can learn so much from my students, they have always been my best teachers.

So John, what you and so many others are talking about is just to simple to be true.

Brian

P.S. There's a reason this is called the "WARRIOR" Forum. Think about it.

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AmyDavis

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Zanti

What Maverick learned that day was, if he believed in himself and didn't accept any self-imposed limitations he could achieve what he set out to achieve. (80% mental/20% physical)

Go Maverick. He learnt an awesome lesson. One that will do him good for the rest of his life.

Originally Posted by Zeus66

You have to learn how to accept failures, take the hard lessons they always impart, and move on. You have to get back up, dust yourself off, dry the blood off your ego, and start it all over again.

The thing is, most people never learn this lesson. People are being molly coddled from the time they are born. It's almost as if pushing someone to achieve their potential is a bad thing.

And unfortunately, the majority also never learn about mindset and mental training. How cool would it be, if this was part of regular school curricula? Catch them young, train them for life.

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paulie888

12 years ago

Originally Posted by AmyDavis

The thing is, most people never learn this lesson. People are being molly coddled from the time they are born. It's almost as if pushing someone to achieve their potential is a bad thing.

And unfortunately, the majority also never learn about mindset and mental training. How cool would it be, if this was part of regular school curricula? Catch them young, train them for life.

It only seems to be getting worse, and we have a whole generation of coddled brats coming out of high school soon with this entitlement mentality.

You know it's getting bad when schools and educators are thinking of scrapping F grades in school, for fear of "hurting" the emotional and mental make up of high school students! Whatever happened to being rewarded for hard work and honest effort??

Paul

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lesterlim85

12 years ago

I think the society nowadays are more inclined to "protecting the youngsters" for fear of hurting their emotions and hence a lot of them became more pampered and can't take some simple hardship or difficulties in the things they do.

I'm not trying to generalise, but that is something that I observe at least that is happening in Singapore to a number of youngsters nowadays.

Cheers,
Lester

Originally Posted by paulie888

It only seems to be getting worse, and we have a whole generation of coddled brats coming out of high school soon with this entitlement mentality.

You know it's getting bad when schools and educators are thinking of scrapping F grades in school, for fear of "hurting" the emotional and mental make up of high school students! Whatever happened to being rewarded for hard work and honest effort??

Paul

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David McKee

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Zanti

Maverick reached a point when he didn't think he could go on, his arms were shaking, tears were coming out of his eyes, but he was determine to finish, as we loudly encouraged him... And finish he did.

He never gave up, even when he though he couldn't go on. What Maverick learned that day was, if he believed in himself and didn't accept any self-imposed limitations he could achieve what he set out to achieve. (80% mental/20% physical)

I have to say that watching this young boy, with his body trembling and tears coming from his eyes, show the courage of a warrior, brought tears to my eyes then and even now when I think of it.

Brian

Brian,

That made my eyes misty...

You said a ton here, as did John in the initial post.

The whole "entitlement" mentality is a sickness that is destroying lives all over this world.

The truth is simple, the truth is hard.

But the truth is The TRUTH, and nothing else will do.

-DTM

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lesterlim85

12 years ago

Hey!

Seriously, I think this boy has a great future ahead of him! It is the determination and mental toughness that will take him far, in no matter what he does in the future!

Thanks for the sharing of this great story!

Cheers,
Lester

Originally Posted by Zanti

Maverick reached a point when he didn't think he could go on, his arms were shaking, tears were coming out of his eyes, but he was determine to finish, as we loudly encouraged him... And finish he did.

He never gave up, even when he though he couldn't go on. What Maverick learned that day was, if he believed in himself and didn't accept any self-imposed limitations he could achieve what he set out to achieve. (80% mental/20% physical)

I have to say that watching this young boy, with his body trembling and tears coming from his eyes, show the courage of a warrior, brought tears to my eyes then and even now when I think of it. Why, because he has what it takes to achieve whatever he wants in life.

P.S. There's a reason this is called the "WARRIOR" Forum. Think about it.

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lesterlim85

12 years ago

Hey no worries!

Actually I agree with you that some people either don't have the will power to do it or they simply don't realise they are actually "in hot soup"!

Cheers,
Lester

Originally Posted by Meharis

I'm not trying to argue with you by no means but, I think you missed my point of view.
This is a fact of life. The problem did not start because Internet.
The problem existed when the "shiny object" was "Mail Order System" (before you were born)
and people was having exactly the same behavior.
My comment was directed to the people not being able to follow Zeus66 suggestion.
They either don't have the will power to do it or worst yet, don't realize
they do have a problem.
Meharis

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RockinBosslady

12 years ago

I'm new to this and have been learning so much FOR FREE. It's probably taking me more time, but the information is out there. Forums, podcasts, emails from gurus, etc.. I've gotten some good information by piecing together what others have posted online. It's not as well organized, but I'm pretty sure that I'm figuring things out. Well, i hope I am, I haven't pulled the trigger yet. I'm taking it ssslllloooowww and doing the research and prep work first.

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lesterlim85

12 years ago

I reckon this is a good approach to learn things from free information and trying to piece them together when you are on a tight budget. The point is don't give up and try your best in whatever you are doing.

Only buy those WSOs which are aligned with your business strategy (if you already have one). I know it's hard not to be attracted to shiny objects because sometimes I still commit the same mistakes. Just try your best to do it!

Cheers,
Lester

Originally Posted by RockinBosslady

I'm new to this and have been learning so much FOR FREE. It's probably taking me more time, but the information is out there. Forums, podcasts, emails from gurus, etc.. I've gotten some good information by piecing together what others have posted online. It's not as well organized, but I'm pretty sure that I'm figuring things out. Well, i hope I am, I haven't pulled the trigger yet. I'm taking it ssslllloooowww and doing the research and prep work first.

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Greg Roberts

12 years ago

Hey John, Great post. I myself, have thrown an embarrasiing amount of money towards these scammers. I have now learned that as in all lucrative ventures, including internet marketing, hard work and perseverence are the keys. Otherwise, every lazy person would be rich!
Thanks, Greg

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robbeh

12 years ago

It's really tough when I see people getting into this who I know are going to fail. Friends ask me all the time to train them and I tell them sign up for "x" training (no needs for plugs here) and learn the basics, when you get a site off the ground i'll help you.

Half don't bother signing up and those that do...never get a single thing done and they have a free mentor ready to show them the ropes... I see it forums all the time...

At first I was thinking this post does kill a bit of the dream but it's a reality check that people need.

Great Post

Robbeh

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Old Dog New Tricks

12 years ago

After reading all the posts so far there have been varied opinions that are based on the solid point of view of the poster and should be considered by all Internet marketers new and veteran as valid points when considering WSO's.

Some feel that wso's can be positive and negative to an individual. That is true and would have to be determined by that individual. Can you be taken in or can you benefit from anything offered on this forum, or the Internet for that matter. The answer of course is yes.

Yes we can and should have rules to benefit the users, new and old alike.

However I would hope that those who have an Internet business, or those who are trying to create a new one, realize that "free enterprise" is needed to really allow private businesses to work. There is no gain unless you risk something first. Just the way it is folks.

If you believe it is proper to remove all risk by rules or regulation then individual enterprise of any sort may die as a result. Just an example in point.

Do we really need the FTC (government) to protect us in "all" things?

The point here is not to debate the FTC but rather all regulation. We need to ponder and understand how regulation stymies entrepreneurial endeavor. Regulation to assure everyone success, often kills the goose that lays the golden eggs. We often eat the goose "entrepreneurs" and then wonder why there aren't any more eggs.

In order for free enterprise to work we have to also have the freedom to fail and maybe even be hood winked too. Yes we need to be aware that people do get sold a bad bill of goods sometimes and we marketers need to police ourselves. Thus the forum rules that can remove those who would prey on the new and weak willed. I'm in favor of that and do my part to call out in my opinion what I believe to be misguided. However to get the good we also have to allow the bad to exist also. A paradox I'm not tackling now.

If we want the continued ability to freely follow our business pursuits we also need to be careful what we promote or allow to regulate our "free "Internet" market place".
If we don't keep a watch out, we may one day only remember what entrepreneurship and free enterprise was as we stand in line like every one else waiting for our equally safe soup.

As usual, my opinion.......

Old Dog

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magnates

12 years ago

you buy anything else, go find a mirror. Look into your own eyes, cut out the BS you tell yourself, and answer honestly: Are you ready to work? I'm talking about working without a boss to make you do it. I'm talking about skipping the ball game or the video game or the beach today because it's more important to do the work than it is to be entertained. I'm talking about making that same decision to choose work over leisure tomorrow, too, and the next day, and the next day. I'm talking about being prepared - really prepared - to work right now and maybe not see a penny from your efforts for weeks or months to come.

I'm talking about risking the real possibility that you may never see a penny from your efforts today.

I'm talking about these things because this is the stark reality of being an IM'er. It ain't fun and games, especially when you're just starting out. It's hard work. It's real work. It's taking chances and gutting it out when you really just want to sit there and "veg" out today, or this hour, or for the next few minutes.

It's not for pu&&ies. OK? It's not. Frankly, some of you reading this don't have what it takes. Save your money. Stop buying all the new shiny promises. Go get a job. Make a career out of working in a setting where someone else dictates your activities. Some people need that direction to be imposed on them. Nothing wrong with that. Being your own boss is tough. It takes discipline. It takes balls.

And guess what? Sometimes you'll do everything "right" and still fail. If you want to make it in this business, you have to learn another skill. You have to learn how to accept failures, take the hard lessons they always impart, and move on. You have to get back up, dust yourself off, dry the blood off your ego, and start it all over again.

Can you do that? Can you?

If you can't, stop making people here and elsewhere who play on your hopes to find an easy answer richer. Stop buying the crap that promises $25,000 a month from pushing a few buttons. It's a lie. All you're doing it enriching people who are cynically playing you.

If you have the stomach for the dark side of trying to make money online, pick something you don't hate doing that the consensus of experienced marketers tell you can be successful.

Then do it. To the exclusion of all the rest. See it through. Don't start one other project or idea until you follow the first one through to the end (win or lose).

Can you discipline yourself to ignore the shiny new objects that come along literally every day? It's incredibly difficult for many of us. But it still has to be done.

OK, that's enough. But it's enough. This is what you won't hear from many other marketers. Some of them want you to believe that it's easy, and that all you need is their next new thing. They need you to believe it because it's how they make their money. Stop giving them your money and answer these hard questions for yourself. No one else can. And until you do, you'll just continue throwing good money after bad and enriching BS artists who laugh at you about it.

John

Got to love someone that tells you the truth

You have said very well the reality of what is happening in the IM niche

Lots of pple that want to take advantage of your dreams and forget to tell you that there is some work to be done

if you are not willing to do the work don't buy the product .

How true !!

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tankeroo 12 years ago

AMEN THAT!!!! Finally, somebody with an honest reality check, lol! We're always (I just posted this in another thread...) chasing the ever elusive pretty shiny new software or get rich quick scheme, and we never finish what was almost done! Why? Not because we think we NEED it... I almost think that itls that we're so afraid of taking the last step and failing that we never just do it. Thanks for the *****slap upside the head, lol! I needed it!
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Charlie A 12 years ago

Exactly right, it's all about discipline. But that's the case with anything in life worth doing. I spent 18 months jumping from one method to another and made nothing. The only secret formula is hard work. And I see that as a good thing because not everyone is a genius but anyone can be successful if they commit to it.
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- Steven Wagenheim 12 years ago
  
  Zanti, I love reading your comments. They are always spot on with just a little
  bit of sarcasm (okay, in this case, a lot of sarcasm LOL)
  
  FWIW...I never bought into the "there must be a quick way to make a buck
  online" crap.
  
  Maybe it's just because I'm a cynic at heart.
  
  PS - Every time I see your forum name I think of an old Outer Limits
  episode...
  
  YouTube - Zanti Misfits
  
  There's a very young Bruce Dern in this episode along with a guy by the
  name of Vic Perrin (uncredited) who played lots of off screen voices including
  Nomad in the Star Trek episode "The Changeling"
  
  YouTube - Star Trek - "The Changeling"...
  
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Matt Ward

12 years ago

As usual, I agree with you 100%.

A lot of people talk about how IM is easy money, and reading through some of the sales pages of WSOs/IM products, you might think it's true. As someone still in the beginning stages, I think this is the hardest thing I've done in my life. The reason being exactly one of the things you touched on; you are working on your own time, and you are the only one that can make yourself do it. The cruel thing about this business is that the internet is not only where you work and make all of your money, but it's also a place so easy to to screw off and waste hours of time. Being an internet junkie since long before I started IM, this has been a pretty big issue for me, personally.

Along with being your own boss, you have to be able to shrug off failures and learn from them. If something you do goes badly, and things most certainly will, you have to be able to take it. If you're a perfectionist, you're going to have to come to grips with the fact that you're going to screw some things up. Every day is a learning experience, and I doubt there are many people that struck gold on their very first try.

On another note, I would be interested in knowing the percentage of people that buy WSOs and go on to make a single cent online. I wouldn't be surprised if it's an extremely small number.

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"Keep moving forward."

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Moneyerr

12 years ago

Great post. Seriously, i agree with you John 100%. Again, really good post. Thank you.

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Tom L

12 years ago

John,

I took your adsense course before and you never promised any riches to anybody. My main purpose was to expand on what I already have known and even though I did break the code (so to speak) and am making money now... it has been a lot of work.

Remember this saying:

"you can pay now and play later, or play now and pay later... but you will have to pay either way.... eventually."

Tom

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JohnMcCabe

12 years ago

Originally Posted by davez

The new WSO's are all setup so the price keeps increasing, in my mind that kills the original spirit of WSO's.

My Peeve is how's it a WSO if the first guy gets it cheaper than the 20th guy, it's no longer a WSO then is it. It's beyond me how anyone could think anything else...

Dave, it may be beyond you, but it makes perfect sense to me.

If you look at the definition of a Warrior Special Offer, it will make sense to you as well. A WSO is an offer made to Warriors for a product/service/etc. at a price lower than that offered to the general public. Over time, that definition seems to have been stretched to include offers made exclusively via WSO.

Nowhere in that does it say that everyone that buys has to pay the same price. The escalating prices you dislike are a simple means of generating some urgency, like any other early-action bonus.

Zanti, I love your point about people misunderstanding the whole LOA/Secret thing. It reminds me of a Quaker proverb one of my ealry mentors liked to use: "When you pray, move your feet."

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Zanti

12 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Zanti, I love your point about people misunderstanding the whole LOA/Secret thing. It reminds me of a Quaker proverb one of my ealry mentors liked to use: "When you pray, move your feet."

John, I like this, again, it's the simplest things in life that are often made so complicated by those looking for a quick fix.

It's like following your breath for just 2 minutes, most can't do it. To much mind chatter comes in to play and focus is lost and the goal not reached.

But, following one's breath is very simple to do and easy, ah, but it is also one of the hardest and most difficult things to do, even for two minutes. Give it a try.

Brian

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terrencewan

12 years ago

Great Posts! You are the Man!
I started off looking for that "Button" also,
and later realise it is all BS!

You really have to work on it.

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