Clickbank guidelines change - Buyer friendly but an enemy to the seller | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

13 years ago

It's time..although personally i dont think it will change a lot. The slick so called "Gurus" will find other ways. Or simply get around it with small print.

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StevenJones 13 years ago

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

It's time..although personally i dont think it will change a lot. The slick so called "Gurus" will find other ways. Or simply get around it with small print.

Action is followed by a reaction in general. So indeed, it's just another case of waiting and see which "Guru" will come around this nifty little thing.
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- Alexa Smith Banned 13 years ago
  
  I can't see it being very significant at all. Unfortunately.
  
  Like all these things, it's welcome, but it's "too little, too late".
  
  Serious, professional affiliates are typically not willing to promote a product with "last 9 copies remaining", or whatever, on its sales page anyway. Even if the vendor's naive enough to imagine that that will actually help his conversion rate (and there really are some gullible enough to imagine so!), professional affiliates tend to know better. (Many vendors never test these things for themselves? The very few who do certainly get rid of them quickly enough ).
  
  The reality is that most of the stuff being forbidden by these rules changes is stuff that operates against the vendor's interests anyway.
  
  They're all things that non-testing marketers (and a few "professional" copywriters who ought to know better) copy blindly "because everyone's using them so they 'must' work". :rolleyes: :p
  
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  bretski 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Alexa Smith
  
  Serious, professional affiliates are typically not willing to promote a product with "last 9 copies remaining", or whatever, on its sales page anyway...
  
  I agree... whether it's fake or real scarcity, I tend to shy away from stuff also. I have seen stuff that I promoted actually sell out... which sucks
  
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Diane S

13 years ago

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

...get around it with small print.

Or maybe even white print on a white background? :rolleyes:

These changes are coming in the nick of time for me, as I am getting my affiliate sales page ready for my first clickbank product. I will go take another look at my sales page and be sure I get it right from the start.

You're very kind for alerting us.

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StevenJones

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Diane S

Or maybe even white print on a white background? :rolleyes:

These changes are coming in the nick of time for me, as I am getting my affiliate sales page ready for my first clickbank product. I will go take another look at my sales page and be sure I get it right from the start.

You're very kind for alerting us.

No problem Diane! Good luck with selling!

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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

That's good news actually. At least in my book. I don't use income claims and fake scarcity tactics or fake testimonials or fake screenshots, so I'm not affected by these changes at all.

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StevenJones

13 years ago

You guys are serious? Our whole world economic system is based on scarcity. So yes it works. So don't go deny that it does not work. Still I am not a fan of this myself. Especially when the fake scarcity tactic occurs on a landing page.

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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by StevenJones

You guys are serious? Our whole world economic system is based on scarcity. So yes it works. So don't go deny that it does not work. Still I am not a fan of this myself. Especially when the fake scarcity tactic occurs on a landing page.

The question is not whether or not it works. The question is whether or not you should do it and whether or the the FTC will come knocking at your door if you use dishonesty in your sales pitches.

Burglary ... works. Doesn't mean that you should go rob people for money.

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StevenJones

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

The question is not whether or not it works. The question is whether or not you should do it and whether or the the FTC will come knocking at your door if you use dishonesty in your sales pitches.

Burglary ... works. Doesn't mean that you should go rob people for money.

Point taken. The thing is that people who use the scarcity tactic the wrong way are obviously self centered humans, that is however my opinion. If you ever came across these fake statements, you should probably know that the actual product wouldn't be that good either. At least, that is what I experienced

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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by StevenJones

Point taken. The thing is that people who use the scarcity tactic the wrong way are obviously self centered humans, that is however my opinion. If you ever came across these fake statements, you should probably know that the actual product wouldn't be that good either. At least, that is what I experienced

I know there are legit ways to use scarcity ... because scarcity does actually work. I use it all the time with sales.

Limited time only
Three days only
Price will increase at such and such a time

Just follow through with the limits and there's nothing wrong with scarcity.

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StevenJones

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I know there are legit ways to use scarcity ... because scarcity does actually work. I use it all the time with sales.

Limited time only
Three days only
Price will increase at such and such a time

Just follow through with the limits and there's nothing wrong with scarcity.

The next question that can be ask is how can one proof that his scarcity technique is legit and not some fake countdown script that is reading your cookies. In a sense, and as stated before on this thread, these alternate guidelines came just a bit too late.

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Flamboyantegg

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

The question is not whether or not it works. The question is whether or not you should do it and whether or the the FTC will come knocking at your door if you use dishonesty in your sales pitches.

Burglary ... works. Doesn't mean that you should go rob people for money.

I dunno, seems pretty legit to me...

In reality however, I'm 100% on-board with scarcity WORKING and also finding extremely distasteful fake scarcity. It's manipulative to the point of being immoral, but there's a little voice in the back of my mind that says "but we marketers play the same psychological tricks with our copyrighting, our phrasing, our titles, our products (sometimes)"...

So, what's the borderline between illegitimate and legitimate psychological trickery?

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StevenJones

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Flamboyantegg

I dunno, seems pretty legit to me...

In reality however, I'm 100% on-board with scarcity WORKING and also finding extremely distasteful fake scarcity. It's manipulative to the point of being immoral, but there's a little voice in the back of my mind that says "but we marketers play the same psychological tricks with our copyrighting, our phrasing, our titles, our products (sometimes)"...

So, what's the borderline between illegitimate and legitimate psychological trickery?

That's hard to say. It will vary for each individual. But the biggest wrongs in some eyes are often the biggest wrongs for everyone.

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sbucciarel Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by StevenJones

That's hard to say. It will vary for each individual. But the biggest wrongs in some eyes are often the biggest wrongs for everyone.

That's why the FTC has to step in ... people will decide for themselves and often decide to do what is dishonest and deceptive.

I personally think that online marketers in general will benefit from a cleaner reputation. Shady marketing has been going on for so long that the industry has a real black eye.
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- bretski 13 years ago
  
  Just to play the "devil's advocate", if you read the new guidelines with a bit of a slant or with the intention of strictly staying within the guidelines nothing really changes. I mean, how much can "realistically be made" or "guarantee earnings"?
  
  Realistically, you can earn as much as you want. It depends upon how much effort you put into anything in life that determines how much money you make. Guarantee earnings? I guarantee that if you don't make any money you can have your purchase price back.
  
  As far as having to state how one will earn this potential money? I could say that this is a trade secret and divulging it on a sales page would be like giving away the formula for Pepsi.
  
  I don't mean to be a pain but I see a thousand loopholes...
  
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  StevenJones 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by bretski
  
  ..I don't mean to be a pain but I see a thousand loopholes...
  
  I highly agree. Nevertheless, our fate lays with the subjective mind of the FTC.
  
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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by StevenJones

You guys are serious? Our whole world economic system is based on scarcity. So yes it works.

Not on false scarcity, Steven. :rolleyes:

Not on scarcity that even a semi-literate half-wit can see has been conjured up out of thin air by a vendor as a purely mendacious sales tactic: that just makes potential customers realise that the vendor's a liar.

I don't know about you, but when I'm trying to sell something to someone, the last thing I want them thinking is that I'm a liar.

You won't find many successful affiliates who know the business promoting products with illegal, deceptive crap like that on the sales page. And there are reasons for that. People who actually test it get rid of it.

This isn't Clickbank changing the law, you know? It's merely Clickbank (finally) recognising the law.

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Steven Wagenheim

13 years ago

Here's my question.

Will Clickbank yank all the products in their marketplace that violate the
points brought up?

Me thinks not for obvious reasons.

Remains to be seen.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Will Clickbank yank all the products in their marketplace that violate the
points brought up?

Me thinks not for obvious reasons.

My guess is also "not" ... unfortunately.

But "WHO KNOWS?" (as Steve would say

). Maybe they'll send something suitable to the vendors of all those products inviting them to amend and re-submit their sales pages? I wouldn't be surprised by their doing that (especially if the FTC have "had a quiet word" as they surely must, at some point?).

Vendors who use "only 9 copies remaining" and have it sitting there for 6 months really do need to have their heads examined. And if the person who does the examining finds anything much inside them, then he needs to have his head examined, too. :p

"An enemy to the seller"?! Do me a favour ... heaven forbid that marketers should have to obey the law and be honest ...

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Steven Wagenheim

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

My guess is also "not" ... unfortunately.

But "WHO KNOWS?" (as Steve would say

). Maybe they'll send something suitable to the vendors of all those products inviting them to amend and re-submit their sales pages? I wouldn't be surprised by their doing that (especially if the FTC have "had a quiet word" as they surely must, at some point?).

Vendors who use "only 9 copies remaining" and have it sitting there for 6 months really do need to have their heads examined. And if the person who does the examining finds anything much inside them, then he needs to have his head examined, too. :p

"An enemy to the seller"?! Do me a favour ... heaven forbid that marketers should have to obey the law and be honest ...

It's not the scarcity I'm concerned about. It's the other crap..."make
money while you sleep".

Do you REALLY think all those hyped up, vague sales pages are going to be
taken down?

Let's keep an eye on the Business Opportunities section in the marketplace,
or whatever the frick it's called these days, and see how many sales pages
at the top aren't filled with the usual crap.

Please, this is just CB covering its ass with no intention of doing anything
about it.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

It's not the scarcity I'm concerned about. It's the other crap..."make money while you sleep".

Yes, I hear you. And no, I don't honestly think all those hyped up, vague sales pages are going to be taken down.

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Please, this is just CB covering its ass with no intention of doing anything about it.

I don't doubt their sole motivation is to cover their assets (it would be mine, too, if I were running Clickbank!).

But if the FTC has "had a quiet word", or does so soon (which is surely possible in this regulatory climate) they may have to get rid of some of the blatant lies like "only 9 copies remaining", and doing that would actually be doing vendors a favour. This is all I'm saying ...

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DireStraits

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Yes, I hear you. And no, I don't honestly think all those hyped up, vague sales pages are going to be taken down.

I don't doubt their sole motivation is to cover their assets (it would be mine, too, if I were running Clickbank!).

But if the FTC has "had a quiet word", or does so soon (which is surely possible in this regulatory climate) they may have to get rid of some of the blatant lies like "only 9 copies remaining", and doing that would actually be doing vendors a favour. This is all I'm saying ...

It would be doing everyone a favour, really, wouldn't it? Not just vendors.

The primary reason why it takes so damn long, as an affiliate, to trawl through their marketplace and find something you might potentially promote (subject to the product being suitable when you evaluate it, of course) is the sheer volume of crappy-ass sales-pages you have to wade through to find anything half-decent.

I don't doubt for a second that there are a great many products on Clickbank that may be of great value in and of themselves, and that would otherwise be totally suitable to promote, but that you simply cannot touch if you care about your reputation, due to the vendor's crappy sales practices.

It's one thing asking a vendor to put up a copied instance of their sales-page just minus an opt-in, or something; it's another thing entirely to ask and expect them to scrap the biggest chunk (if not all) of it and start over again because it comprises mostly hype, lies and deceptive crap.

I struggle to imagine that clamping down would have anything but a positive effect from all perspectives in the longer-term - from that of the vendor, the affiliate and the customer - and, because professional affiliates would take many more products/vendors seriously instead of immediately writing them off, I kind of suspect that sales and revenues would increase across the board as a result.

I just see it as being a win-win for everyone involved. A potentially bigger selection of products for affiliates to promote, a better collective reputation for e-product vendors leading to a gradual decrease in scepticism on the customers' part, and - ultimately - more sales and probably a much easier sell.

Or maybe I'm just far too much of an optimist.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 13 years ago