With Congress Internet Purchase Tax, Will Affiliates Be Ok Now?

97 replies
I need clarity - hoping some Warriors can translate all this for me.

The whole deal with Amazon pulling out of states, leaving affiliates voided lately - will that change if this gets passed?

Internet Sales Tax to be Introduced in US Senate - FoxNews.com

I'm assuming (maybe wrongly so) that if this is national, Amazon won't have certain states to run to...but someone please clarify.

Tiff
#affiliates #congress #internet #purchase #tax
  • Profile picture of the author Robert Brauer
    Tiffany,

    This is a great topic to bring up. I've been wondering the same thing myself...

    I'm contacting my accountant on the 20th or so (a few days after taxes are due)...

    If I find anything out from him, I'll be sure to post to the Forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    There was a thread on this before referencing a different article
    that implied his proposal was only for his state, Illinois. The article
    in the OP seems to imply it is nationwide across all internet sales.

    I'll have to check it out.

    If he wants it for all sales, then he's in for a fight to be sure. I
    predict he'll be the most popular guy in the entire country.


    Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
    Well they don't have my permission to impose this tax on me until they can prove that they know how to use the money wisely, can prove that not one penny will go to their personal pet projects, or personal interests.

    Its really too bad that we as a society can't ever get united enough to force our will upon them in a very decisive manner. They clearly, do not have the publics interest in anything they put into motion. Yet, we sit and let it all happen year after year.
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    No one can answer until it's passed.

    Web retailers *might* be able to move to another country, only paper, like many companies have and keep distribution centers to skirt it.

    No one knows anything for sure and can only speculate.

    Garrie
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  • Profile picture of the author CheapTrafficDude
    The following is not financial advice...

    Here's the deal on taxes in affiliate marketing. You are responsible to claiming ALL your income and this goes on your income tax declarations each year. Depensing on where you live, you will also be responsible for those taxes like sales and state/provincial and federal taxes.

    If for example you live in Texas and you receive payment from another Texas resident, you are responsible to collect the sales tax or pay for it yourself. The IRS will look at each transaction and where the payment came from. If sales tax applied and you didn't collect it, you are still responsible to pay for that tax along with your regular income taxes.

    Another example, if you live in Canada and solely deal with Clickbank, you wouldn't be required to pay the sales tax but you would still have to declare your income. Out of country income is classified as pro-rated and is not subject to territorial taxes. However, in Canada, you are required to have a business license when you earn over $30K within a fiscal year.

    Many affiliates (richer) will incorporate in Panama because of the taxation benefits and the higher DOI (Dividends of Investments). Over here, I can take out $500,000 per year tax free to me but still required to pay the usual corporate taxes. Some Americans will incorporate in Wyoming because of the tax breaks.
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Cheap,

    Your reply isn't even close to what the OP is talking about. If you read the link she provided or some of the replies, you would know this.

    Garrie
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    If it passes, I'm going to bet that Amazon will drop it's affiliate program altogether and incorporate in another country.

    Dick Durbin is an idiot.

    He is one of the few 12 Senators who voted AGAINST the repeal of the 1099 reporting requirement that would put a crap ton of paper work and expense on a lot of small businesses, like most of the people here at the WF.

    Yes - a universally hated part of the Health Care Bill and he + 12 other senators voted against it's repeal.

    Dick Durbin is one (of the many) reasons why the State of Illinois is broke and he will continue to cram fiscally irresponsible legislation through congress.

    Rob
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  • Pathetic. Completely pathetic. Some people live to ruin everything.
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    • Profile picture of the author genietoast
      I think it's only a matter of time until this does happen.

      I'm not a big proponent for this, but states have to get revenue from somewhere to continue public services. And it's obvious that the internet is lucrative.

      So...

      If (or when) that happens, it wouldn't surprise me if Amazon and other companies who sell and ship tangible goods pull the plug on their affiliate programs all together.

      They need to save the profits to reinvest into the shipping and distribution of their goods.

      This is part of the reason why I'm focusing on promoting digital products. Shipping is just a mouse click away and costs nothing.

      I remember when Colorado decided to do the internet sales tax thing, Amazon dropped Colorado affiliates. But Clickbank, headquartered in Colorado, didn't change a thing. In fact, they expanded their operations out to Europe.

      It sounds like the bulk of the tax burden resides on the vendor from that state. For affiliates, I don't know.
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      • Profile picture of the author tijja
        If this passes and uses affiliates to establish nexus I think Amazon will drop all affiliates or only maintain the ones in states where they have physical presence and had to collect anyway. They have already stated that affiliate income is not going to influence them... that it is a drop in the bucket compared to what they will lose... not only with added staff, programming needs, and advisors, but also the fact that Internet sales in general will go down when people cannot save on sales taxes on a computer and get free shipping.

        Who knows with other companies and their affiliate programs.

        I also wouldn't jump on the digital products bandwagon so quick either. Many bills have been proposed in recent years to tax digital products and with all the app sales, kindle ebook sales, etc... they will be next for sure. Digital will only get bigger and they are already noticing.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
        Originally Posted by genietoast View Post

        I think it's only a matter of time until this does happen.

        I'm not a big proponent for this, but states have to get revenue from somewhere to continue public services. And it's obvious that the internet is lucrative.
        True - but if I purchase something online, from say - New York - and I pay sales tax, I get NO benefit from that transaction or tax, it's just extra cost.

        And in fact - if you live in some States (cough cough Illinois), you not only have to pay sales tax to the collecting state (In my example New York), but ALSO to your home state!

        In some States, (cough Illinois) if you purchase something out of state, you MUST pay sales tax in Illinois, regardless of whether or not I already paid sales tax.

        Then, even worse, in some States (cough Illinois), you must also pay a tariff for just purchasing something online. (so that's three payments of tax - sales tax where you purchased, sales tax then paid to some states, and then a tariff. Yup, it's nuts.)

        It's getting rather ridiculous.

        Instead of cutting spending, the oh so bright people who represent us believe that adding more tax is the better philosophy.

        Rob
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        • Profile picture of the author genietoast
          Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

          True - but if I purchase something online, from say - New York - and I pay sales tax, I get NO benefit from that transaction or tax, it's just extra cost.

          And in fact - if you live in some States (cough cough Illinois), you not only have to pay sales tax to the collecting state (In my example New York), but ALSO to your home state!

          In some States, (cough Illinois) if you purchase something out of state, you MUST pay sales tax in Illinois, regardless of whether or not I already paid sales tax.

          Then, even worse, in some States (cough Illinois), you must also pay a tariff for just purchasing something online. (so that's three payments of tax - sales tax where you purchased, sales tax then paid to some states, and then a tariff. Yup, it's nuts.)

          It's getting rather ridiculous.

          Instead of cutting spending, the oh so bright people who represent us believe that adding more tax is the better philosophy.

          Rob
          That would make it even worse. Then imagine having to pay income tax at the end of the year on top that.

          What F^&$ker decides it's a good idea to make his home state residents pay home state tax even if they went shopping on the moon? Earn from your own.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve Faber
        Originally Posted by genietoast View Post

        I think it's only a matter of time until this does happen.

        I'm not a big proponent for this, but states have to get revenue from somewhere to continue public services. And it's obvious that the internet is lucrative.

        So...

        If (or when) that happens, it wouldn't surprise me if Amazon and other companies who sell and ship tangible goods pull the plug on their affiliate programs all together.

        They need to save the profits to reinvest into the shipping and distribution of their goods.

        This is part of the reason why I'm focusing on promoting digital products. Shipping is just a mouse click away and costs nothing.

        I remember when Colorado decided to do the internet sales tax thing, Amazon dropped Colorado affiliates. But Clickbank, headquartered in Colorado, didn't change a thing. In fact, they expanded their operations out to Europe.

        It sounds like the bulk of the tax burden resides on the vendor from that state. For affiliates, I don't know.
        Sorry, but simply switching to digital products won't save you, at least in this state. Since 2009, the state of WA has required you to pay B&O taxes if you sell digital products.

        If this thing does pass, think about being a vendor with affiliates, such as having products sold through CB. You'll be required to collect and pay the appropriate tax for every state in which you make a sale. Now you are only required to collect taxes if the sale is made in your state of residence to another resident of that state (when it is an online digital product sold to an out of state party).

        It will be a bureaucratic nightmare, and so much trouble to implement that many vendors of digital products will simply drop their affiliate programs, resulting in less income for both the vendor and affiliate.

        You'd better start developing and marketing your own products, because that may well be your last hope of making a living on line after the pols get through with things. They likely won't be satisfied until they have things well and screwed up for the likes of us. Ain't that just the way????
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        • Profile picture of the author davidjames42973
          California is going to take another "go" at getting the
          Nexus Tax Law approved. They voted on it last November,
          so I assume it will be voted on again in November 2011.

          It's really a damn shame and it seems as if affiliates don't
          have any say so in the matter.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Steve Faber View Post

          Sorry, but simply switching to digital products won't save you, at least in this state. Since 2009, the state of WA has required you to pay B&O taxes if you sell digital products.
          Yeah, I'll never forget when a customer asked me to add a tax on sales made in TENNESSEE for a SERVICE! That was like 10 years ago. I recently heard that they will do that in indiana. Give an inch and.... Besides, a LOT of tangible things are now NON tangible! So they have to start taxing services, or the revenue is bound to drop.

          Steve
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  • Maybe they'd keep the US affiliate program open to those outside the US? There's quite a lot of us. The majority promote primarily with the US and a bit with our local stores.
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    And in fact - if you live in some States (cough cough Illinois), you not only have to pay sales tax to the collecting state (In my example New York), but ALSO to your home state!
    Not true.

    In your example, NY would get it not the home state of the business.

    In some States, (cough Illinois) if you purchase something out of state, you MUST pay sales tax in Illinois, regardless of whether or not I already paid sales tax.

    Then, even worse, in some States (cough Illinois), you must also pay a tariff for just purchasing something online. (so that's three payments of tax - sales tax where you purchased, sales tax then paid to some states, and then a tariff. Yup, it's nuts.)
    That's true for all/most states with sales tax. You are suppose to pay a USE tax.

    Garrie
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    • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
      Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

      Not true.

      In your example, NY would get it not the home state of the business

      Garrie
      Yes - New York get's it - but I also must pay it to Illinois, where I live. The location of the business doesn't matter - (if the business is located in New York, then New York get's the tax. If the affiliate is located in New York, but the business is located in Washington, then New York get's it)

      But I don't LIVE in New York. The point of sales tax is to go to things for the local community - like schools, roads, etc. How do I benefit by paying New York sales tax?

      I already pay sales tax when I buy things in Illinois.

      So - how fair is this?

      I pay sales tax on an item (from a vendor in New York), New York get's the sales tax. I then MUST pay Illinois a sales tax. And finally, a tariff since I ordered online?!

      Let's look at this transaction: I buy a 100 dollar item on amazon. New York Takes, lets say 10% (The sales tax for my area is around this much). So that's 10 bucks.

      Then I pay Illinois another 10 bucks.

      Finally, I pay whatever "fee" it is to the state of Illinois for ordering online. I don't know what it is but lets say 5 bucks.

      My 100 dollar item is now 125 bucks. Is this supposed to encourage me to spend money?

      I mean, that's triple taxation - one of which I get no benefit out of, the other is just extortion if you ask me.

      Rob
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      • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
        Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

        Exactly - but I don't LIVE in New York. The point of sales tax is to go to things for the local community - like schools, roads, etc. How do I benefit by paying New York sales tax?
        Your example wasn't very clear and I took it you lived in NY and the business was in IL. (Thats why I mentioned the business location.)

        You won't be taxed for your location and the location of the business selling. It will be one or the other.

        I personally hope if anything is done, it's based where the business it. IMHO coming to my site is the same as my store. It would also mean less paperwork.

        Of course I would rather it fail altogether.

        Garrie
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        • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
          Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post


          Of course I would rather it fail altogether.

          Garrie
          I agree. It's ridiculous.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Dick Durbin is an idiot.
            yeah - what he said

            What concerns me is feds passing laws mandating state taxes...it's up to states to impose their income and sales taxes and to set the regulations for them. That's what has been happening and only a few states have done it.

            States that handle their money well don't have to increase taxes and that's a benefit for residents and busineses alike in those states. What's next - D.C. deciding how much income tax every state should have? To me, this flies in the face of state's rights.

            I think this might be a first step toward adding a national internet tax - and honestly I don't think they'll get it through...at least not yet.

            kay
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            • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              yeah - what he said

              What concerns me is feds passing laws mandating state taxes...it's up to states to impose their income and sales taxes and to set the regulations for them. That's what has been happening and only a few states have done it.

              States that handle their money well don't have to increase taxes and that's a benefit for residents and busineses alike in those states. What's next - D.C. deciding how much income tax every state should have? To me, this flies in the face of state's rights.

              I think this might be a first step toward adding a national internet tax - and honestly I don't think they'll get it through...at least not yet.

              kay

              Bingo... it's a continued erosion of the 10th Amendment. But that's a different topic.

              The real rub is that in most states, interstate purchases are still taxable, but rely upon the individual to disclose their purchases on their state tax return. It's right there in black and white... which means that you're ultimately liable for those taxes on purchases wherein you didn't declare the tax on your return.

              Those tax laws aren't being repealed, so does that mean there's actually a double tax liability coming? One to the feds and the existing ones to the state?
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              • Profile picture of the author AUKev
                This is going to happen. What most people do not realize is that most states have a 'use' tax that is 'self-reported'. In the state of Alabama, where I reside, we are supposed to voluntarily pay the state their 4% for any products that we purchase out of state (whether it be an internet, telephone or catalog) purchase for items that will be 'used' in Alabama. By not reporting it and if audited and proven incorrect, you have basically lied on a state document.

                This has always existed. 30 years ago, when my parents ordered toys from the Sears catalog for Christmas, they should have paid the use tax.

                When a retailer collects sales tax, they are just collecting from the customer to pass along to the state. The only thing that has prevented this from happening in the past is every state has different tax rates. Some states even tax different items at varying rates (groceries are lower than electronics...). If this bill is passed, there will have to be legislation in it that sets a static rate that is equal in all states and equal for all products for purchases outside the state.

                How does this affect affiliates? If all companies are liable for this tax, then I think Amazon would comply and reinstate the affiliates. The nexus of the sale will be the destination of the product. Therefore is does not matter where an affiliate resides, therefore not impacting the collection or reporting of sales tax.

                For companies like Amazon to move offshore...not going to happen either. Can you imagine their volume having to go through customs? It would be a nightmare for our already disabled government that would require them to add an import tax or tariff just to handle the volume.

                BTW, most residents of AL got letters last year. To the affect of "You did not declare any internet purchases on your state return for the years 2006, 2007, 2008. Please total your purchases and multiply times .04 (plus late fees and interest) and remit the value immediately"...
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                • Profile picture of the author ChickenMan
                  Yes, I heard about that letter, though I've never gotten one and honestly don't care. It's mainly something they sent out to random people in hopes to collect extra tax revenue. Doesn't matter if it applies or not.

                  It happens in some banking and credit industries as well. They don't care if it's the right person or not. They just care if someone pays.
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                • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
                  Originally Posted by AUKev View Post

                  This is going to happen. What most people do not realize is that most states have a 'use' tax that is 'self-reported'. In the state of Alabama, where I reside, we are supposed to voluntarily pay the state their 4% for any products that we purchase out of state (whether it be an internet, telephone or catalog) purchase for items that will be 'used' in Alabama. By not reporting it and if audited and proven incorrect, you have basically lied on a state document.

                  This has always existed. 30 years ago, when my parents ordered toys from the Sears catalog for Christmas, they should have paid the use tax.

                  When a retailer collects sales tax, they are just collecting from the customer to pass along to the state. The only thing that has prevented this from happening in the past is every state has different tax rates. Some states even tax different items at varying rates (groceries are lower than electronics...). If this bill is passed, there will have to be legislation in it that sets a static rate that is equal in all states and equal for all products for purchases outside the state.

                  How does this affect affiliates? If all companies are liable for this tax, then I think Amazon would comply and reinstate the affiliates. The nexus of the sale will be the destination of the product. Therefore is does not matter where an affiliate resides, therefore not impacting the collection or reporting of sales tax.

                  For companies like Amazon to move offshore...not going to happen either. Can you imagine their volume having to go through customs? It would be a nightmare for our already disabled government that would require them to add an import tax or tariff just to handle the volume.

                  BTW, most residents of AL got letters last year. To the affect of "You did not declare any internet purchases on your state return for the years 2006, 2007, 2008. Please total your purchases and multiply times .04 (plus late fees and interest) and remit the value immediately"...
                  ROFL... I got a letter like that once for my actual sales tax vendor's license. They claimed that I failed to file for a single month two years prior, conveniently assessed the maximum amount of liability and calculated penalties and interest totalling $12K.

                  Fortunately, I keep copies of EVERYTHING, so it was simply a matter of sending them back a copy and a polite letter of "hey we actually did file, here's the return".

                  Wouldn't you know it that a year later I get a collection letter from a contracted attorney? I sent the attorney the same info and explained that if it happened again I would sue the state for harassment. She told me that she runs into this all the time and YES it was an understood policy in the department of taxation to shake down business owners for cash knowing that most small businesses are pretty abysmal about recordkeeping.

                  It's a total mafia scam street shakedown.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Brock
                    You know what... **** it... I'm tired of this BS.

                    I'm already getting taxed to death as it is (my overall tax this year on my profits after expenses was around 40%), and now they want more...

                    I'm meeting up with my lawyers this week - I'm going to discuss with them how I could set up a service for US marketers that will help them register their business in another country like Thailand or Hong Kong where tax rate is around 10%.

                    Then I'm going to segment out my lists of US people and then push the crap out of it...

                    I dunno if it'll work or not, but I'm at least going to try... ( I guess the problem would be that you'd still have to pay your 40% tax when you try and import it into US dollars )

                    IMO this is a deliberate act to wipe out yet another business opportunity that allows the average person to build wealth for themselves...

                    ...And if that's how it's going to be, my goal over the next year is going to make these *******s regret ever thinking about putting this law into effect.

                    This is getting ridiculous. We all need to start speaking up about this BS.
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                    • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
                      Originally Posted by Daniel Brock View Post

                      You know what... **** it... I'm tired of this BS.

                      I'm already getting taxed to death as it is (my overall tax this year on my profits after expenses was around 40%), and now they want more...

                      I'm meeting up with my lawyers this week - I'm going to discuss with them how I could set up a service for US marketers that will help them register their business in another country like Thailand or Hong Kong where tax rate is around 10%.

                      Then I'm going to segment out my lists of US people and then push the crap out of it...

                      I dunno if it'll work or not, but I'm at least going to try... ( I guess the problem would be that you'd still have to pay your 40% tax when you try and import it into US dollars )

                      IMO this is a deliberate act to wipe out yet another business opportunity that allows the average person to build wealth for themselves...

                      ...And if that's how it's going to be, my goal over the next year is going to make these *******s regret ever thinking about putting this law into effect.

                      This is getting ridiculous. We all need to start speaking up about this BS.

                      Well Dan, maybe you're on to something.

                      Not too long ago it was reported that a rather large search engine scooted out of
                      paying taxes on 60 B. I imagine it was all legal.

                      You could probably figure out a way to make the same process more easily available
                      to smaller businesses. I used to be more familiar with offshore stuff than I am now.
                      But that's all they did. If they can skirt around 60 B, it seems like we could find
                      something for ourselves - small businesses.

                      I agree, this is going entirely too far.

                      People who mismanage and get us this deep into the crap do not have my confidence
                      they can get us out of it.

                      By the way, S & P dropped its rating on US debt to negative. That's not good. The US
                      still has a triple A rating, but that could soon be jeopardy.

                      What's it gonna take before the sleeping giant wakes up?


                      Ken
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                      • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
                        Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post


                        What's it gonna take before the sleeping giant wakes up?

                        Ken

                        Bleeding heart liberalism dies?

                        Math becomes a not so foreign skillset to Americans?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Joshua Rigley
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Daniel Brock View Post

                      You know what... **** it... I'm tired of this BS.

                      I'm already getting taxed to death as it is (my overall tax this year on my profits after expenses was around 40%), and now they want more...

                      I'm meeting up with my lawyers this week - I'm going to discuss with them how I could set up a service for US marketers that will help them register their business in another country like Thailand or Hong Kong where tax rate is around 10%.

                      Then I'm going to segment out my lists of US people and then push the crap out of it...

                      I dunno if it'll work or not, but I'm at least going to try... ( I guess the problem would be that you'd still have to pay your 40% tax when you try and import it into US dollars )

                      IMO this is a deliberate act to wipe out yet another business opportunity that allows the average person to build wealth for themselves...

                      ...And if that's how it's going to be, my goal over the next year is going to make these *******s regret ever thinking about putting this law into effect.

                      This is getting ridiculous. We all need to start speaking up about this BS.
                      If this keeps up, that may be the only option for many of us.

                      This discussion reminds me of another discussion on ebook piracy. Some think that piracy is rampant because of unfair prices for kindle ebooks ($15 is considered outrageous), so they get the pirated version instead.

                      If these high taxes keep up, then more companies will start moving out. And that will hurt the US gubberment.

                      Yep, looks like ol' Uncle Sam is digging their own grave and put one foot in.

                      Of course, that's IF this crap keeps happening. But honestly, our government is so screwed up right now I just don't see how it can be fixed, short of divine intervention.
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                    • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
                      Originally Posted by Daniel Brock View Post

                      You know what... **** it... I'm tired of this BS.

                      I'm already getting taxed to death as it is (my overall tax this year on my profits after expenses was around 40%), and now they want more...

                      I'm meeting up with my lawyers this week - I'm going to discuss with them how I could set up a service for US marketers that will help them register their business in another country like Thailand or Hong Kong where tax rate is around 10%.

                      Then I'm going to segment out my lists of US people and then push the crap out of it...

                      I dunno if it'll work or not, but I'm at least going to try... ( I guess the problem would be that you'd still have to pay your 40% tax when you try and import it into US dollars )

                      IMO this is a deliberate act to wipe out yet another business opportunity that allows the average person to build wealth for themselves...

                      ...And if that's how it's going to be, my goal over the next year is going to make these *******s regret ever thinking about putting this law into effect.

                      This is getting ridiculous. We all need to start speaking up about this BS.

                      Where do I get on the list?
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                      • Profile picture of the author efwebm
                        death and taxes....good luck fighting either one
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                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                      Originally Posted by Daniel Brock View Post

                      You know what... **** it... I'm tired of this BS.

                      I'm already getting taxed to death as it is (my overall tax this year on my profits after expenses was around 40%), and now they want more...

                      I'm meeting up with my lawyers this week - I'm going to discuss with them how I could set up a service for US marketers that will help them register their business in another country like Thailand or Hong Kong where tax rate is around 10%.

                      Then I'm going to segment out my lists of US people and then push the crap out of it...

                      I dunno if it'll work or not, but I'm at least going to try... ( I guess the problem would be that you'd still have to pay your 40% tax when you try and import it into US dollars )

                      IMO this is a deliberate act to wipe out yet another business opportunity that allows the average person to build wealth for themselves...

                      ...And if that's how it's going to be, my goal over the next year is going to make these *******s regret ever thinking about putting this law into effect.

                      This is getting ridiculous. We all need to start speaking up about this BS.
                      Please let me know about the list also. I'm going to have to expand my old plan for this situation. It only covered the currency though. This is crazy. And man, today!?!?!? I'm scare to look! Hold on! At least it wasn't as bad as I thought, TODAY.... News Default Page - FreeRealTime.com

                      WHO KNOWS about later though?

                      Steve

                      Steve
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                    • Profile picture of the author donhx
                      Originally Posted by Daniel Brock View Post

                      You know what... **** it... I'm tired of this BS.

                      I'm already getting taxed to death as it is (my overall tax this year on my profits after expenses was around 40%), and now they want more...

                      I'm meeting up with my lawyers this week - I'm going to discuss with them how I could set up a service for US marketers that will help them register their business in another country like Thailand or Hong Kong where tax rate is around 10%.

                      Then I'm going to segment out my lists of US people and then push the crap out of it...

                      I dunno if it'll work or not, but I'm at least going to try... ( I guess the problem would be that you'd still have to pay your 40% tax when you try and import it into US dollars )

                      IMO this is a deliberate act to wipe out yet another business opportunity that allows the average person to build wealth for themselves...

                      ...And if that's how it's going to be, my goal over the next year is going to make these *******s regret ever thinking about putting this law into effect.

                      This is getting ridiculous. We all need to start speaking up about this BS.
                      Hey, this idea worked for General Electric. They had $5.1 billion in US profit this year, but did not pay a dime in taxes. In fact, they got a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.

                      GE's U.S. Tax Bill? Zero
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                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                    Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

                    ROFL... I got a letter like that once for my actual sales tax vendor's license. They claimed that I failed to file for a single month two years prior, conveniently assessed the maximum amount of liability and calculated penalties and interest totalling $12K.

                    Fortunately, I keep copies of EVERYTHING, so it was simply a matter of sending them back a copy and a polite letter of "hey we actually did file, here's the return".

                    Wouldn't you know it that a year later I get a collection letter from a contracted attorney? I sent the attorney the same info and explained that if it happened again I would sue the state for harassment. She told me that she runs into this all the time and YES it was an understood policy in the department of taxation to shake down business owners for cash knowing that most small businesses are pretty abysmal about recordkeeping.

                    It's a total mafia scam street shakedown.

                    When I was sued, to pay back money they OWED me, the idiot lawyer filed the case RIGHT after the 3 YEAR statute of limitations. When I mentioned that it was RIGHT AFTER the three years, you know what they said? Well, these checks cleared just within the three years and THAT is the date we are using. So we filed it TIMELY! TIMELY!!!!!!!!!!!! Can you believe it, they actually used that term. I had all the records, but had JUST started a business trip!

                    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

      Not true.

      In your example, NY would get it not the home state of the business.

      That's true for all/most states with sales tax. You are suppose to pay a USE tax.

      Garrie
      Gee, I lived near new hampshire for a while. I NEVER heard of them having a USE tax! The ONLY time I heard of a use tax was in CA! You know what it meant?

      You could get a "SALES/USE TAX PERMIT". You could then buy things SALES TAX FREE! If you sold them, you collect sales tax, on the PRICE, and pay to the state. If you USED stuff in stock, you would simply pay SALES tax, on the COST.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author blueberries
    wow, I knew it would be a matter of time before Uncle Same would come knocking. If this passes, we can expect many adjustments in IM.
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    • They are looking for any way they can to get more money from us. They got us into this mess and we are going to be taxed to death to get out of it !!!

      Brace yourself---it is coming. It is like $4 a gallon gas, when you hear them say it is coming, for some odd reason, it happens.

      As far as affiliate sales by the large retailers-who knows what they will decide. About all we can do is have alternate plans and pray that Congress does not kill the golden goose!
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      • Originally Posted by R. Hershel Wright View Post

        They are looking for any way they can to get more money from us. They got us into this mess and we are going to be taxed to death to get out of it !!!

        Brace yourself---it is coming. It is like $4 a gallon gas, when you hear them say it is coming, for some odd reason, it happens.

        As far as affiliate sales by the large retailers-who knows what they will decide. About all we can do is have alternate plans and pray that Congress does not kill the golden goose!
        Pray that the US never pays its debt off Unless you want to go through pandemonium
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  • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
    If they simply got rid of the Federal Reserve they would have another 10% at least, of instant additional funds to work with.

    (for the unaware: The Federal Reserve is not a government agency, it is a private corparation...and until recently ( this year) because of intense scrutinization and demands by Congress to "see the books", We ( well members of congress really) are getting the first glimpses ( emphasis on glimps) of the Feds accounting....since 1933!

    The Fed is a money broker...doing the "money handling" job that our founding fathers insisted be performed by Congress itself.

    The "interest on the national debt" goes to the lucky families who own the Federal Reserve.....Families such as the Rothchilds, Vanderbuilts, Rockefellers, some Chinese etc.

    Seeing as how, since 1933 and the passing of House Joint resolution 192 ( and other bills) The Fed simply prints money out of thin air, as needed...the "National Debt" is therefore nothing more than a debt on paper.

    The existance of the Federal Reserve and the control its owners have over ...well everything....is the root of all economic problems. Get rid of it and we get more tax money to ourselves without trying to find new ways to tax.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    MAN, this is RIDICULOUS! WHO do they think they are talking to?

    For more than a decade, the burgeoning internet sales market has enjoyed a congressionally-sponsored advantage via sales tax moratoriums, established in 1998, to foster growth in the digital sales business -- but with e-commerce vendors like Amazon no longer fledgling entities, and states and cities like New York and Illinois facing budget deficits, e-commerce taxes have become a hot-button issue.
    NO, it has been for more than a century, or how ever long sales tax existed! If you sell through something like mailorder, you don't have to charge sales tax! That changed maybe a decade ago when the states started asking people to pay such tax on their income tax returns. MANY companies are NOT as large as amazon, and a tax like this can HURT companies, INCLUDING amazon.

    GIVE ME A BREAK!

    BTW some states DON'T charge salestax! Those states may see a BIG drop in amazon sales!

    They speak like they kindly exempted the internet whenn the TRUTH is that the internet has been treated EXACTLY like mailorder.

    One more thing, this would NOT be a SALES TAX in the way we know it. It would basically be a "VAT" tax!!!!!!! And do you think it will stop with the internet? NO WAY!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    bTW this does NOT get rid of the state salestax SO, to answer your question, it will make companies MORE likely to drop affiliates, because it is yet ANOTHER charge, etc...

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      We're focusing on affiliates - but this will be a big consumer issue as well. One of the boosts in buying online has been paying less taxes. For a long time that benefit was often canceled out by shipping fees.

      Many sites like Amazon now have free shipping on most of their products. Other sites have a low flat rate shipping fee.

      That's where this battle will be won or lost - the huge online customer base and the stance they take on these additional taxes. I think it will be important to focus on "more taxes from everyone" rather than just on "affiliate problems".

      kay
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      • Profile picture of the author LiamP
        Excuse my ignorance of US tax matters but I am an Amazon affiliate living in Australia.

        Where am I wrong in the following? If this is a federal bill Amazon (and other online retailers) will either have to
        (a) Pay tax on every item regardless on whether they are sold by an affiliate or not. So they would just adjust their prices higher and the affiliate program stays as is.
        or
        (b) Move to a different country to avoid sales tax. This seems unlikely but if they did what is the advantage to dropping the affiliate program?

        Either way why drop the affiliate program?
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by LiamP View Post

          Excuse my ignorance of US tax matters but I am an Amazon affiliate living in Australia.

          Where am I wrong in the following? If this is a federal bill Amazon (and other online retailers) will either have to
          (a) Pay tax on every item regardless on whether they are sold by an affiliate or not. So they would just adjust their prices higher and the affiliate program stays as is.
          or
          (b) Move to a different country to avoid sales tax. This seems unlikely but if they did what is the advantage to dropping the affiliate program?

          Either way why drop the affiliate program?
          MANY are missing the point, and you miss it also. It is ILLEGAL for the government to deal with the rights of the states, and doing that here could put tens, or hundreds of thousands OUT OF WORK! ALSO, that money IS needed, so involving them means the government will have to pay MORE, and counter the income. ALSO, I have ******NEVER****** heard of the US doing such a thing!

          SO, simple logic, and reason, says this will be in ADDITION to state taxes. Amazon doesn't want to deal with thousands of rules, and hire more people simply so they can pay affiliates for fewer customers, so they get rid of the affiliates to get rid of the garbage. It has NOTHING to do with federal rates. Federal rates will simply cut profit and likely hurt sales, FOR ALL!

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    Liam, we really don't know what Amazon will do. They may do nothing (though I doubt), they may drop the affiliate program, they may not - but still fight the tax.

    If they drop it for US affiliates, I'm not sure if they would keep it at all. It really depends on how much income affiliates bring in. They are such a big brand now, it's doubtful they need an affiliate program.

    I don't think we have much to worry about - yet. Right now, congress is concerned about voter anger over the economy. On top of the questionable constitutionality of a national sales tax, I think it will be several years before things get serious.

    However, with that said, don't be surprised when the US government decides to implement a national sales tax.
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    • Profile picture of the author SuResearcher
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      If they drop it for US affiliates, I'm not sure if they would keep it at all. It really depends on how much income affiliates bring in. They are such a big brand now, it's doubtful they need an affiliate program.
      In their on-going court case, Amazon has said that affiliates were responsible for 1.5% of sales in the state of NY.

      Source: taxfoundation.org/research/show/26829.html
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  • Profile picture of the author misterkailo
    We should really have an accountant here in the thread lol. Right now, we are all just speculating.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by misterkailo View Post

      We should really have an accountant here in the thread lol. Right now, we are all just speculating.
      Let's see.... HMM..... PROFIT-TAX(where tax is greater than zero)=LESS PROFIT!
      PRICE+TAX=HIGHER COST
      HIGHER COST=FEWER CUSTOMERS

      So WHAT am I missing? I mean I MUST be missing SOMETHING, RIGHT?!?!?!?

      OH YEAH! Increased costs of trying to get people to determine taxes and file them. OH, and the cost of programming!

      NOW, where does the accountant come in?

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    One could only hope people and businesses make use of appropriate
    resources to stop this nonsense.

    But look at some of the responses in this thread. People are already
    accepting it as inevitable when it is not. At least it doesn't really have
    to be.

    Look at all the taxes that exist today, and look at this mess we're in. All
    those taxes didn't stop anything. Didn't seem to help anything. What's
    paid off? What has been paid off so far?

    So, who is confident any new taxes will solve anything? I'm not, are you?

    Where is it going to end?

    I think people need to draw the line somewhere, and this seems like as good
    a time and place as any.


    Ken
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

      One could only hope people and businesses make use of appropriate
      resources to stop this nonsense.

      But look at some of the responses in this thread. People are already
      accepting it as inevitable when it is not. At least it doesn't really have
      to be.

      Look at all the taxes that exist today, and look at this mess we're in. All
      those taxes didn't stop anything. Didn't seem to help anything. What's
      paid off? What has been paid off so far?

      So, who is confident any new taxes will solve anything? I'm not, are you?

      Where is it going to end?

      I think people need to draw the line somewhere, and this seems like as good
      a time and place as any.


      Ken
      EVENTUALLY something will break! EVENTUALLY. Does anyone know WHEN it will have started? Did it start when that debt was sold? Or when those places stopped accepting dollars? Or a few weeks ago when walmart said inflation is rampant. Or TODAY when the US credit was DOWNGRADED with a note that they will likley do it again within the next 2 years?

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        EVENTUALLY something will break! EVENTUALLY. Does anyone know WHEN it will have started? Did it start when that debt was sold? Or when those places stopped accepting dollars? Or a few weeks ago when walmart said inflation is rampant. Or TODAY when the US credit was DOWNGRADED with a note that they will likley do it again within the next 2 years?

        Steve
        I hear ya Steve. But I think something is already broken! Has been.

        Doesn't really matter when it started, imo. But adding fuel to the fire
        won't put it out.

        Yes, I know US credit was downgraded, today.

        Who knows where it's going to end.


        Ken
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        • Profile picture of the author Chris Sorrell
          Fella's, if you think the US is getting bad get on board and come join us happy campers in the UK. You can enjoy the following -

          Gas - $10 per gallon (and you moan about $4 a gallon?)

          Highest rail fares in the world

          top rate of tax - 55%

          The TV licence - ( a compulsory tax that can land you a hefty fine or a prison sentence if you don't pay it)

          Highest council tax rates in the world

          Public sector pension deficit that is worth more than the country itself


          Enticing isn't it?

          I'll be leaving in November to the wonderfuly low tax capitalist environs of Malaysia or Singapore. See you there.
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          • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
            Originally Posted by sorrellaff View Post

            Fella's, if you think the US is getting bad get on board and come join us happy campers in the UK. You can enjoy the following -

            Gas - $10 per gallon (and you moan about $4 a gallon?)

            Highest rail fares in the world

            top rate of tax - 55%

            The TV licence - ( a compulsory tax that can land you a hefty fine or a prison sentence if you don't pay it)

            Highest council tax rates in the world

            Public sector pension deficit that is worth more than the country itself


            Enticing isn't it?

            I'll be leaving in November to the wonderfuly low tax capitalist environs of Malaysia or Singapore. See you there.
            Might want to check out Costa Rica. Just an idea.

            A TV license? You mean, like for the TV you watch at home?

            I guess we sort of have that, too. Fees and whatevers with your
            TV/cable provider.

            I read enough of John Henderson's (?) posts in the OT re UK/EU financial
            woes.

            I feel for you all. I know it doesn't help.


            Ken
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            • Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

              Might want to check out Costa Rica. Just an idea.

              A TV license? You mean, like for the TV you watch at home?

              I guess we sort of have that, too. Fees and whatevers with your
              TV/cable provider.

              I read enough of John Henderson's (?) posts in the OT re UK/EU financial
              woes.

              I feel for you all. I know it doesn't help.


              Ken
              I think we pay 125 pounds a year to watch TV. Haven't checked lately.
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

              Might want to check out Costa Rica. Just an idea.

              A TV license? You mean, like for the TV you watch at home?

              I guess we sort of have that, too. Fees and whatevers with your
              TV/cable provider.

              I read enough of John Henderson's (?) posts in the OT re UK/EU financial
              woes.

              I feel for you all. I know it doesn't help.


              Ken
              Actually, if you can live with fewer channels, you CAN get free tv in many places in the US. Cable was justt something to make it easier to get good reception, and they eventually added channels from elsewhere and other providers and then produced their own. I had NO idea that europeans paid for it. YIKES!

              Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
                Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                Actually, if you can live with fewer channels, you CAN get free tv in many places in the US. Cable was justt something to make it easier to get good reception, and they eventually added channels from elsewhere and other providers and then produced their own. I had NO idea that europeans paid for it. YIKES!

                Steve
                I didn't know that either, but as far as I know it's only in England. But still...

                The TV is not an issue for me. I canceled my cable TV subscription about
                7 years ago, maybe 8.

                Haven't missed it one bit. Anything newsworthy is on the internets. lol


                Ken
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by sorrellaff View Post

            Fella's, if you think the US is getting bad get on board and come join us happy campers in the UK. You can enjoy the following -

            Gas - $10 per gallon (and you moan about $4 a gallon?)
            Well, with less local travel, it isn't so bad.

            Highest rail fares in the world
            Well, I went over in 1989, and I DID hear that Americans got a special deal, but it was CHEAP when I went over. And it could cost less than like $10/day for a month to travel anywhere you wanted.

            top rate of tax - 55%
            Yep, I heard it was that in Denmark. Nice lights, Nice Streets, apparently LOCALIZED crime, etc... OH, and the minimum wage was like $10/hour!

            The TV licence - ( a compulsory tax that can land you a hefty fine or a prison sentence if you don't pay it)
            How do they know that you have TV and NOT a license? You DO have ADS there! WHY do they have to have people pay to see it?

            Highest council tax rates in the world
            I don't even know what you mean.

            Public sector pension deficit that is worth more than the country itself
            SAME HERE!!!!!

            Enticing isn't it?
            Who knows?

            I'll be leaving in November to the wonderfuly low tax capitalist environs of Malaysia or Singapore. See you there.
            I don't think I would fit in.
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  • Profile picture of the author royaltyw
    All I know for now is that Illinois residents can no longer be Amazon Affiliates.
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  • Profile picture of the author paintbrush4u
    Ridiculous...Games... games and more games.... I thought we just got done with Special
    Olympics....

    Yeah....why dont we do the tax hike and just bury another budding industry....that way there will a whole lot more ppl waiting in the lines for the handout...

    Its like someone said earlier in the thread....if they already can't manage what we have given them, how dare they come back for more....where is the accountability... and the biggest news for the whole of last two weeks was.....

    WE JUST AVERTED A MAJOR SHUTDOWN (politically speaking)..... and that is somehow twisted by the media and they show them as HEROS who saved the day.....

    What about production... what about....growth... what about prosperity....I guess none of these count...

    Of course I am being a little sarcastic...

    Anyway.... got to work... and get something done for My Personal Green Revolution...

    I think the way we can help America... is by being Wildly Successful...

    To your Success
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  • Profile picture of the author donhx
    I have been following this legislation for a while, called the "Main Street Fairness Act."

    It would mean a universal tax for Internet purchases, and would thus end the Amazon problem. They would be forced to collect sales tax everywhere and remit it to various states.

    Wal-Mart, Target and Best Buy favor this tax, Amazon is the only major company fighting it.

    Local businesses (so-called Main Street businesses) with web sites will be able to sell $500,000 worth of things that would be tax free. The idea behind this is for local businesses would have a level playing field with major national companies.

    Even though states are starving for sources of additional taxes, it is unlikely the "Main Street Fairness Act" will pass the Republican-controlled House. It has failed before and it will fail again. However, a bill like this will probably get passed in the next few years.

    No one can guess what the consequences might be... except more taxes always hurt business. Also, it will be a paperwork nightmare since it will amount to a new National Sales Tax for the U.S.
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    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
      Banned
      Originally Posted by donhx View Post

      I have been following this legislation for a while, called the "Main Street Fairness Act."
      Anytime you hear politicians mention "fairness", you know you're about to get screwed.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

        Anytime you hear politicians mention "fairness", you know you're about to get screwed.
        Generally, I agree with that statement. But the idea of charging tax on sales INSTEAD of on "income", and getting rid of the IRS is a good one. The rich people buying yachts and planes will pay a LOT of money. Imagine how much travolta would have paid on his large airplane! The POOR may even spend LESS money because farmers, etc... wouldn't have to deal with payroll taxes, or variable income taxes, etc... And YEAH, boeing probably would have saved also. It would STILL cost a lot though. HECK, maybe they could make food free from tax. And we won't have to file for refunds, etc...

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author ChickenMan
    I think they're just going to end up pissing people off even more than they are right now. They apparently can't manage a damn thing they have right now, like someone pointed out, and they have the gall to want even more money to waste.

    It's like the proposed electric car tax I read about. People were given incentives to buy electric cars to lessen deoendcy on gasoline and to be more environmentally, but now they're turning around and want to tax that based on miles driven to make up for the gas tax lost. Dont think that made it very far.

    *sighs* Our founding fathers' skeletons are probably facepalming at the state of our wonderful nation right now.
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  • It is now mathematically impossible for the U.S. government to pay off the U.S. national debt. You see, the truth is that the U.S. government now owes more dollars than actually exist. If the U.S. government went out today and took every single penny from every single American bank, business and taxpayer, they still would not be able to pay off the national debt. And if they did that, obviously American society would stop functioning because nobody would have any money to buy or sell anything
    Interesting post:

    It Is Now Mathematically Impossible To Pay Off The U.S. National Debt

    The worst is yet to come
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesGw
    This sounds like it'll make everyone's life more difficult.
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  • Profile picture of the author entry
    1) Could this change just affect Amazon affilites?
    or clickbank affiliates too?
    Rap Product affiliates?

    2) and What is the best option, for your marketing, in order to avoid being hit by this ?

    for example, Have your own product? (with affiliates promoting it? )

    3) From 2), can the affiliates promoting your product be affected by this change ?

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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by entry View Post

      1) Could this change just affect Amazon affilites?
      or clickbank affiliates too?
      Rap Product affiliates?

      2) and What is the best option, for your marketing, in order to avoid being hit by this ?

      for example, Have your own product? (with affiliates promoting it? )

      3) From 2), can the affiliates promoting your product be affected by this change ?

      It will affect ALL deals through the US. This will affect amazon, tiger, ebay, etc.... HECK, it may even affect things foreign companies sell in the US.

      steve
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      • Profile picture of the author entry
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        It will affect ALL deals through the US. This will affect amazon, tiger, ebay, etc.... HECK, it may even affect things foreign companies sell in the US.

        steve
        2) and What is the best option, for your marketing, in order to avoid being hit by this ?

        for example, Have your own product? (with affiliates promoting it? )

        3) From 2), can the affiliates promoting your product be affected by this change ?
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by entry View Post

          2) and What is the best option, for your marketing, in order to avoid being hit by this ?

          for example, Have your own product? (with affiliates promoting it? )

          3) From 2), can the affiliates promoting your product be affected by this change ?
          If they charge a tax on all sales, the best option would be to MOVE! It doesn't matter if it is your own product or not. Having affiliates wouldn't make any difference in what is charged to you. The affiliate idea came up when the STATES started saying that an affiliate is an employee as far as sales tax is concerned, and thus a point of presence so the company has to charge sales tax. The affiliates could be affected because sales could drop, and costs would go up.

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
    In regards to the context of how to "Congress-Proof" your american Amazon Aff business - you may need to find the states where AMAZON can't exit - like headquarters? Major distribution centers locations? ... and get a PO Box and or create an LLC there for Amazon shtuff.

    The poster discussing the Panamanian option was rather timely - a friend of mine was pointing this option out as well. From what I gather - Panama is where the feds and U.S. Gubmint does most of its secretive and nefarious banking, so keeping banking there under wraps may have a bit more longevity now that the SWISS are selling out to the IRS Bribes .... errrr ... Amnesty and Whistleblower programs
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

      In regards to the context of how to "Congress-Proof" your american Amazon Aff business - you may need to find the states where AMAZON can't exit - like headquarters? Major distribution centers locations? ... and get a PO Box and or create an LLC there for Amazon shtuff.

      The poster discussing the Panamanian option was rather timely - a friend of mine was pointing this option out as well. From what I gather - Panama is where the feds and U.S. Gubmint does most of its secretive and nefarious banking, so keeping banking there under wraps may have a bit more longevity now that the SWISS are selling out to the IRS Bribes .... errrr ... Amnesty and Whistleblower programs
      And HOW does that get you out of the united states? I guess you could direct sales to foreign countries, but will amazon even want to pay affiliates after the cut in income? You know, they used to provide like 15% commissions. They DROPPED that!

      BTW they aren't selling out to bribes, it's EXTORTION! The deal is that, to begin with, the US will PULL their bank charter if they don't comply. A lot of things are ILLEGAL to do, and you can't even attempt them, unless your a bank, and many contries don't consider you a bank unless you have a charter there. THAT is why you see so many foreign banks in places like new york. Pulling their charter hurts their ability to compete. Of course, other sanctions could follow.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Brauer
    Honestly,

    This is one of the taxes that I actually agree with.

    I mean, I think that income tax is WAYY to high, but there should be a tax on consumption (especially in our country, where we consumer too much)!!

    Anyone have any more details about this new legislation?
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Brauer
    This is damn confusing...

    I'm considering moving to another country with looser regulation on businesses...

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    • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
      Originally Posted by prophetmktg View Post

      This is damn confusing...

      I'm considering moving to another country with looser regulation on businesses...

      Bad news, bro...

      Congress passed laws, don't know when, that hit expats pretty hard. If
      you move out of the country, you are still taxed for your income. No kidding.
      So you pay taxes to two countries, the US and your new country.

      If you renounce your citizenship (US) and leave, all of your assets are taxed
      on your way out the door.

      Thanks for the dough... have a nice life!


      Ken
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      • Profile picture of the author Joshua Rigley
        Banned
        Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

        Bad news, bro...

        Congress passed laws, don't know when, that hit expats pretty hard. If
        you move out of the country, you are still taxed for your income. No kidding.
        So you pay taxes to two countries, the US and your new country.

        If you renounce your citizenship (US) and leave, all of your assets are taxed
        on your way out the door.

        Thanks for the dough... have a nice life!


        Ken
        It would be worth it just to free my pocketbook from their grasp. Mind you, I'm not planning on moving anytime soon. But it would be worth considering opening a bank account overseas, like some big companies do.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

        Bad news, bro...

        Congress passed laws, don't know when, that hit expats pretty hard. If
        you move out of the country, you are still taxed for your income. No kidding.
        So you pay taxes to two countries, the US and your new country.

        If you renounce your citizenship (US) and leave, all of your assets are taxed
        on your way out the door.

        Thanks for the dough... have a nice life!


        Ken
        WOW, that's surprising. My uncle seemed to be happy with the US, and he is a US citizen that earned money in Denmark. He never became a danish citizen though. So he paid into the danish system, and THEY won't give him any retirement! If the US demanded tax for that I would imagine he would be VERY upset! It's bad enough to pay for a retirement you will NEVER get. He is married to a dane and speaks fluent danish, so he is otherwise treated as if he were a dane.

        BTW it's illegal in the US to have foreign citizenship and US citizenship unless you are in a special class, like Jewish, or as an accident of birth, like born in the US to foreign citizens or vice/versa. So most people that become US citizens are expected to renounce their citizenship elsewhere. Of course SOME countries, like mexico, refuse to acknowledge that, so it is an empty pledge.

        OH, and they have a law that you aren't supposed to carry more than like $10,000 outside the country, and you have to declare it. CRAZY!

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author drewsg
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          BTW it's illegal in the US to have foreign citizenship and US citizenship unless you are in a special class, like Jewish, or as an accident of birth, like born in the US to foreign citizens or vice/versa. So most people that become US citizens are expected to renounce their citizenship elsewhere. Of course SOME countries, like mexico, refuse to acknowledge that, so it is an empty pledge.

          OH, and they have a law that you aren't supposed to carry more than like $10,000 outside the country, and you have to declare it. CRAZY!

          Steve
          That is BS, dual citizenship is NOT illegal in the US
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by drewsg View Post

            That is BS, dual citizenship is NOT illegal in the US
            HEY, take it up with the US state department!!

            US State Department Services Dual Nationality

            The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.

            A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship.

            However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

            Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct.The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

            However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship.Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship.
            I had heard that last one was always involuntary, and places like mexico made it clear THEY saw that to be the case, but it seems open to the US interpretation, etc...
            And clearly to evade taxes in any way shape or form WOULD indicate an intent as shown above.
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        • Profile picture of the author carlos123
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          BTW it's illegal in the US to have foreign citizenship and US citizenship unless you are in a special class, like Jewish, or as an accident of birth, like born in the US to foreign citizens or vice/versa. So most people that become US citizens are expected to renounce their citizenship elsewhere. Of course SOME countries, like mexico, refuse to acknowledge that, so it is an empty pledge.

          OH, and they have a law that you aren't supposed to carry more than like $10,000 outside the country, and you have to declare it. CRAZY!

          Steve
          Steve,

          I don't know where you are getting your information but on both counts, about not being able to have dual citizenship and carry more than $10,000 outside the country...you are dead wrong.

          Such misinformation is mind boggling and I would advise any Warrior reading such statements to do so with a great big grain of salt. Better yet talk to a competent attorney who will let you in on the truth (though such is also readily available online for free if you do your own research).

          Carlos
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by carlos123 View Post

            Steve,

            I don't know where you are getting your information but on both counts, about not being able to have dual citizenship and carry more than $10,000 outside the country...you are dead wrong.

            Such misinformation is mind boggling and I would advise any Warrior reading such statements to do so with a great big grain of salt. Better yet talk to a competent attorney who will let you in on the truth (though such is also readily available online for free if you do your own research).

            Carlos
            Money and Other Monetary Instruments - CBP.gov

            You may bring into or take out of the country, including by mail, as much money as you wish. [b]However, if it is more than $10,000, you will need to report it to CBP. Ask the CBP officer for the Currency Reporting Form (FinCen 105). The penalties for non-compliance can be severe.

            "Money" means monetary instruments and includes U.S. or foreign coins currently in circulation, currency, travelers' checks in any form, money orders, and negotiable instruments or investment securities in bearer form.[/q]
            I should have said "unless you", rather than "and you have to". Sorry, but that is what I meant. Still nuts. As for the dual citizenship, I don't know if it changed or what, but I heard it several times, and a couple places, like mexico, said they don't recognize it.

            Still, if they catch you taking out more than $10,000 undeclared....

            Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author keithoz88
      It is both depressing and amusing at times to read this thread.
      Most Western economies have largely relied on debt to expand, at every level inc. governments, businesses and householders.
      The net savers of the world, primarily Asian, have been providing the money.
      Investment in US govt bonds is waning as the savers of the world realize the extent to which the US dollar is being eroded through over supply.
      Debt at every level is too high and changing the dominant philosophy will be a painful adjustment for individuals, companies and government.
      My suggestion would be to a). think laterally (like overseas options), b). adjust your own habits, c). diversify sources of income and where its kept and d). maintain your own inner peace and happiness in the midst of the turmoil.

      PS. living in the Philippines is great!
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      • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
        Originally Posted by keithoz88 View Post

        PS. living in the Philippines is great!

        I can imagine and am slightly envious.


        Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author DCallantine
    Only in America do we trust a man who can raise our taxes, cut our benefits and give himself a raise in the same stoke of a pin. If there is money and kick backs who in our government do you think will not vote for it.

    Just my 2 cents or is that my dismal attitude coming out. I have a sore spot when it comes to the government doing what is in our best interest. The internet is the last place where freedom is still hinged and the government is picking it apart one piece at a time. Ooops it is my dismal attitude.
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    But I do not see where it is illegal to have dual citizenship. Plus, some of the
    wording is not completely concrete. It's open to interpretation perhaps on a
    case by case basis, purposely.


    However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.
    I don't know why someone would want to do this, but what if there is "no" intention
    to give up US citizenship?

    Also, as I bolded, it only says "may" lose it.

    I don't see anything that states it is illegal. But, that is a State Dept document
    and not the law as written; unless it was taken from the law.

    Maybe I'm missing something...


    Ken
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

      But I do not see where it is illegal to have dual citizenship. Plus, some of the
      wording is not completely concrete. It's open to interpretation perhaps on a
      case by case basis, purposely.




      I don't know why someone would want to do this, but what if there is "no" intention
      to give up US citizenship?

      Also, as I bolded, it only says "may" lose it.

      I don't see anything that states it is illegal. But, that is a State Dept document
      and not the law as written; unless it was taken from the law.

      Maybe I'm missing something...


      Ken
      Yeah, I had heard several times that it was always involuntary. Another site even said so. towards the end, it makes it sound like intent can be implied by taking advantage, or breaking the law.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author ChickenMan
    Holding dual citizenship isn't illegal iirc. Otherwise people who legitimately live in other countries to work despite having US citizenship would be breaking the law, though nothing the US can technically do about it in a way that wouldn't be troublesome.

    Point is though, I think it depends on the circumstances, like trying to run from the law or something. I highly doubt the US would get away with such a law saying you can't hold citizenship elsewhere.
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  • Profile picture of the author bmillionaire324
    Clickbank requires you to submit w8 form and they provide 1099 forms and everything for you to file your taxes anyway, I am not very into Amazon, but I am guessing that they do to..
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by bmillionaire324 View Post

      Clickbank requires you to submit w8 form and they provide 1099 forms and everything for you to file your taxes anyway, I am not very into Amazon, but I am guessing that they do to..
      Those aren't sales taxes. And HEY, california, for example, makes it VERY hard to file your sales taxes, if you are a seller. You have to go to the SBE and, if you think you will be paid a LOT, you have to pay a quarters taxes IN ADVANCE! If you are filed as a corporation elsewhere, maybe they will give you the run around they gave me, and REFUSE to allow you to collect, or pay, sales taxes(as a business), until you file as a foreign corporation!

      In NEVADA, you have to get a sales permit, and apparently must file quarterly REGARDLESS.

      And YEAH, I had a california S&U tax permit. A mixup in nevada meant I ended up with one THERE also, even though I never thought I needed one, and a nice woman there told me I didn't.

      BTW Federal income taxes are for the COUNTRY! ONE FORM!
      STATE income taxes are for the STATE! Generally ONE FORM! Though I have had to file up to SIX!
      Sales taxes can be for the CITY! Anyone have ANY idea how many rates there are? OK, maybe there are only like 47 forms, but some, perhaps ALL, forms have MULTIPLE tax rates. I forget about nevada's, because I always just filed it as ZERO, but california had AT LEAST 6, IIRC! LUCKILY, they went by various regions, and they were like counties.

      And how do you even find out where to apply? I never heard about the california state board of equalization, until I had to get a sales/use tax permit, and my mother was an accountant so she knew about it. BTW I didn't even know about the permit until I found distributors won't generally talk to you unless you have one.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author efwebm
    It seems to me that they are still talking about state taxes - but making it a federal law so that it was enforced across all states. Right now, only a few states collect sales taxes for ALL sales from their state. They want to make it so every state collects taxes for sales in their state (if that state has a sales tax)

    I think companies like amazon would just move to states that don't have sales taxes. No need to go overseas.

    For affiliates, the taxes are between the merchant and the buyer. Merchants would still get their same amount and would give affiliates their same cut.

    The only loser here is the buyer, unless this causes online sales in general to drop, in which case the merchant and affiliate is losing business.

    If you are selling your own products, you need to be in a state that has no sales tax, or charge customers a tax on every sale, which you would hand over to your state. I think companies like clickbank would handle that as part of their service if you sold your products through them.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Actually Ken, the US credit rating wasn't downgraded... just the forward outlook... first steps towards downgrading the debt.

    I think the S&P was firing a shot across the bow to warn these monkeys in DC to get their heads our of their a$$es and fix this thing post haste.
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    • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      Actually Ken, the US credit rating wasn't downgraded... just the forward outlook... first steps towards downgrading the debt.

      I think the S&P was firing a shot across the bow to warn these monkeys in DC to get their heads our of their a$ and fix this thing post haste.

      Thanks Michael... that's exactly why I purposely don't wander too far
      into this area of discussion. Too many landmines for me.

      But upon doing a little reading, I am not confident at all about the direction
      toward which their heads will travel.

      It also makes me wonder about the thinking going on at the S&P. I'm referring
      to influencing "solutions" that do not bode well for the average citizen - such
      as raising taxes and giving those who want to do it even more ammunition in
      support of doing it.

      I believe most will say it is the lesser of two evils, but I fervently disagree. There
      is a third alternative, but it requires more courage than has previously been
      demonstrated by people as well as more responsibility than officials seem inclined
      to exhibit.

      Thanks for clarifying.


      Ken
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      Actually Ken, the US credit rating wasn't downgraded... just the forward outlook... first steps towards downgrading the debt.

      I think the S&P was firing a shot across the bow to warn these monkeys in DC to get their heads our of their a$ and fix this thing post haste.
      Yeah, you're right, I mispoke. Still, a lot of people feel the same about it. Ever see what happens to a stock when some big advisor downgrades their opinion on it?

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author BaltimoreDave
    I'm just gonna move to Thailand. If any of you guys want to throw down on an IM commune in S.E. Asia, holler. haha

    It really just pisses me off that this is affecting me as an affiliate as well as an American citizen. There is so much monetary injustice in the country right now. And what happened to checks and balances???

    I might add that It will never be mathematically impossible for the U.S. to pay off it's debt unless we lose our real assets (which we have many). Our Deficit has been well over our money supply for a long time and most progressive countries are just the same. What separates the U.S. from these other progressive countries is our Govt spending on hasty and illogical economic strategies, such as this potential imposition of federal mandated sales tax.
    Only time will tell where these intolerant, covetous fat cats will take us.
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  • Profile picture of the author WholesalerJoe
    Relax its just a proposal. I think the big companies online will lobby to make sure this bill never becomes law.

    Now I am just one person but I think if the USA closed the IRS and sent everyone home and closed the tax code and went to a new national sales tax collected at the register online and off we would be out of debt very fast. I would make the law work in the aspect when Merchant accounts or Paypal Deposit they take 15% off the top daily to send to feds and state. No more filing tax returns and eliminate the cost of the IRS will be huge....... Plus everyone pays the same regardless of income. I would love to see this happen!
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