Crappy Looking Websites

13 years ago

Crappy websites can do extremely well. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Look at Facebook, that thing is a trainwreck. Craig's List is beyond crappy but it is still very successful. Drudge is another one that looks like pure crap but his traffic would melt the servers of everyone here put together.

If you have lots of good content that is easy to navigate, you can get away with just about anything.

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Promet Analyst

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Rich Struck

Crappy websites can do extremely well. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Look at Facebook, that thing is a trainwreck. Craig's List is beyond crappy but it is still very successful. Drudge is another one that looks like pure crap but his traffic would melt the servers of everyone here put together.

If you have lots of good content that is easy to navigate, you can get away with just about anything.

This guy has a point and LOL

for Facebook being a trainwreck! Content is really what counts. A simple, basic looking site could work.. actually it depends on what most users are interested in or what's trending.:rolleyes:

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bateati

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Rich Struck

Crappy websites can do extremely well. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Look at Facebook, that thing is a trainwreck. Craig's List is beyond crappy but it is still very successful. Drudge is another one that looks like pure crap but his traffic would melt the servers of everyone here put together.

If you have lots of good content that is easy to navigate, you can get away with just about anything.

This is my opinion on the matter as well.

My website may not be the most aesthetically pleasing because I focus on easy to use and functionality before anything else.

I hate websites that look 'great' but do not work worth a dam.

I wish the clients that I built websites for felt the same way

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x3xsolxdierx3x

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Rich Struck

Crappy websites can do extremely well. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Look at Facebook, that thing is a trainwreck. Craig's List is beyond crappy but it is still very successful. Drudge is another one that looks like pure crap but his traffic would melt the servers of everyone here put together.

If you have lots of good content that is easy to navigate, you can get away with just about anything.

lol....

as soon as I saw the thread title, I was prepared to write "What about Craigslist...."

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Bradley J Anderson 13 years ago

Originally Posted by x3xsolxdierx3x

lol....

as soon as I saw the thread title, I was prepared to write "What about Craigslist...."

Again, Craigslist provides a free service. They make their money from outside companies because they pull in millions of visitors a day. That's a totally different marketing strategy.

The OP is wanting to sell a PRODUCT, not provide a popular free service so he can make money from outside advertisers.
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paintbrush4u

13 years ago

While crappy sites dont work PERIOD... there are a lot of sites that look home made sites which are really killing it...

Infact if the site is too slick...it may not be performing at its best...
it also depends on what type or product you are selling... if the product is health and beauty related then ofcourse... make an aesthetically appealing site....
but if you are selling products where you have to INTERRUPT peoples thought patterns....a good home-made looking site...will outpull any professionally made site....

LESSON: Avoid Crappy....but dont overkill yourself trying to sharpen the pencil....have something decent.. launch it... you can always make changes...

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Macksheppard

13 years ago

Two great points of view. I just took down the crappiest site I've ever seen (mine) and moved to a really nice WP theme. I use that crappy site for over 2 years. It was worth 100k per year.

A crappy site that's up and making sales is much better than the best site ever made that sits on your hard drive.

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fanimal

13 years ago

Crappy website with unique and quality content is better IMO than well designed eye-catching website with crappy content.

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SimonJBell 13 years ago

I've always tried to stay away from the crappy looking websites. I'm concerned people will take one look at them and hit the back button. But, to completely contradict myself, sites I visit regularly that have really good content often have the worst looks.
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keyuria

13 years ago

The look is not important as the quality of the service or product you are offering. Keep this in mind and hit headon.

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Tony Marriott 13 years ago

Why fly in the face of success?

If succesfull clickbank products have a particular style of website there's a good reason for it.

Marketers do what sells, designers do what looks good

Decide which one you want to be.
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- Joe Mobley 13 years ago
  
  Words to live (market?) by.
  
  Originally Posted by Macksheppard
  
  A crappy site that's up and making sales is much better than the best site ever made that sits on your hard drive.
  
  Originally Posted by Tony Marriott
  
  Marketers do what sells, designers do what looks good
  
  Decide which one you want to be.
  
  Joe Mobley
  
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lifeismatrix

13 years ago

What is important is the quality...

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sbucciarel

Banned 13 years ago

If by crappy, you mean the typical one page sales page, they do work and work well. The message you are trying to convey will often get lost in the busy-ness of a regular website. Some of the highest converting sales pages are plain white with no header graphics but killer copy.

Killer copy. Remember that. That's what you want.

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Steven Dybka 13 years ago

I really don't think most internet users care to much about the look of the site they are on rather than will that site give them the answer they are looking for.

Steve
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- bretski 13 years ago
  
  I agree with Suzanne... what do you mean by "crappy"? What you might think is crappy might be one what others views as a powerful sales page. Maybe point us in the direction of what you think is crap. A simple site with killer copy isn't going to get any design awards but it will make money.
  
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madison_avenue

13 years ago

The TwentyTen theme which comes default with Wordpress does not look crappy, it looks decent and it has good clean code. It's easy to edit and has drop down drag and drop menus.

You could do worse than use TwentyTen for most of your sites.

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Jeff Alderson 13 years ago

Don't try to reinvent the wheel. Model what's working and always split test to improve conversions...
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Sumit

13 years ago

I am new in to this dollar making scheme ... i cant even call my self beginner .. but thanks to all of you to share good point of view... you people look like you are making tun of money ... i do envy you as well but i think this feeling will force me to do something... this is my first day here i am serious ... lets where i land ...

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JamesGw

13 years ago

A lot of the clickbank type sales pages aren't converting as well as they used to. You really need to presell if you want to convert well on that type of page. Now a lot of vendors are using videos to sell their products, but I've noticed that those aren't really converting either.

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Bradley J Anderson

13 years ago

I agree that quality content is king, but don't fool yourself by thinking that people don't care if you have a site that looks like crap. I've left MANY pages over the years because they looked like they were designed by a child, which gave me the impression of being unprofessional, and I'm sure there are many others that feel the same way.

However, it is more important to just get SOMETHING up live, regardless of how it looks. You can deal with the aesthetics later. CSS makes it very easy to change how your site looks.

I've had great success with the long sales pages, myself. Suzanne is correct in saying that you need the killer sales copy, though. A beautiful looking site is worthless if you don't convey your message properly.

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Karen Blundell

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ben_Doyle

Hey everyone!

I'm in a bit of a pickle.

I have produced a product which I am fine tuning at the minute. But I have got a WF member to design me a mini site and we are really struggling to come up with something that I like.

So I have been looking around Clickbank to get a few ideas but the websites look crap. They're just words on a page!

Does this really work?

I thought a smart looking site would inspire a bit more confidence in a customer. I'm now wondering whether I am just wasting my money.

What do you guy's suggest?

Thanks!

Ben

it's not the frills that make you money, it's your content, your words.
does Google have a fancy page? No.
Does Craigslist? No

'nuff said

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Bradley J Anderson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Karen Blundell

it's not the frills that make you money, it's your content, your words.
does Google have a fancy page? No.
Does Craigslist? No

'nuff said

But then again Google, Craigslist and Facebook aren't selling you anything, either. And they also don't have the typical 'content' that a sales site would have, so those really are not good examples.

Jim Straw has a really good example of a no-frills, high-converting sales page, though. But I can't for the life of me remember the url. Anyone know it, by any chance?

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scrofford

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Brad armPitt

But then again Google, Craigslist and Facebook aren't selling you anything, either. And they also don't have the typical 'content' that a sales site would have, so those really are not good examples.

Google and Facebook aren't selling anything? I beg to differ...Google sells PPC and FB sells advertisement also. They may not have the "typical content" that a sales site would have, but they make more money than most. A lot more. So they are very GOOD examples of sites that are ugly yet make a killing.

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Bradley J Anderson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by scrofford

Google and Facebook aren't selling anything? I beg to differ...Google sells PPC and FB sells advertisement also. They may not have the "typical content" that a sales site would have, but they make more money than most. A lot more. So they are very GOOD examples of sites that are ugly yet make a killing.

I agree they make a lot of money, but they are not selling to the average consumer. They are providing a free service to the user. They are making their money by selling ad space to companies, much like tv stations sell 'commercial space'. The client companies don't care about how the site looks, because Facebook and Google are bringing in millions of visitors a day.

The OP is talking about selling his own product, though, not selling ad space. IMO, that's a huge difference in strategy.

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scrofford

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Brad armPitt

I agree they make a lot of money, but they are not selling to the average consumer. They are providing a free service to the user. They are making their money by selling ad space to companies, much like tv stations sell 'commercial space'. The client companies don't care about how the site looks, because Facebook and Google are bringing in millions of visitors a day.

The OP is talking about selling his own product, though, not selling ad space. IMO, that's a huge difference in strategy.

Dude, are you a consumer? I know I am. Have you ever bought PPC through Google or ad space through FB? A lot of people who buy PPC space and ad space through FB are just like you and me - individual marketers, not huge companies. Most who go to Craigslist are normal everyday consumers.

And by the way, the reason people buy these ad services such as PPC and FB advertising is because it's where the CONSUMER does go and where the consumer goes, that's where marketers want and need to advertise.

The whole point is that Google and FB may be ugly, but they are huge players in reaching targeted traffic. It's that simple. They are great examples of not needing a pretty website to attract customers.

Pretty websites are worthless without traffic. Pretty websites don't sell...good sales copy sells. It's that simple. It's much better if a site is devoid of anything really except the sales copy on the site for product sales.

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Bradley J Anderson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by scrofford

Dude, are you a consumer? I know I am. Have you ever bought PPC through Google or ad space through FB? A lot of people who buy PPC space and ad space through FB are just like you and me - individual marketers, not huge companies. Most who go to Craigslist are normal everyday consumers.

And by the way, the reason people buy these ad services such as PPC and FB advertising is because it's where the CONSUMER does go and where the consumer goes, that's where marketers want and need to advertise.

The whole point is that Google and FB may be ugly, but they are huge players in reaching targeted traffic. It's that simple. They are great examples of not needing a pretty website to attract customers.

Pretty websites are worthless without traffic. Pretty websites don't sell...good sales copy sells. It's that simple. It's much better if a site is devoid of anything really except the sales copy on the site for product sales.

Once again, I agree that content is the most important thing. But the OP is talking about selling a product, not advertising space. And I highly doubt he is bringing in millions of visitors a day, so the 'its a numbers game' theory doesn't apply here, either.

Originally Posted by Ken Durham

What's wrong with having good content and a good design? I have read reports from Clickz and other firms that suggest, though a person says design does not matter, when presented with 2 sites of the same content, but one site being plain while the other aesthetically pleasing, that the majority select the latter.

An interesting read: What Matters Most To Your Website? Good Design, Copy or Both?

Lots of excellent material with large case studies: ClickZ | Marketing News & Expert Advice

My point exactly. I would be willing to bet that if I were to put up 2 sites that were exact in content, but one was professionally designed and the other was just a bare-bones sites, I would convert more with the professionally designed site.

Why do book covers have pictures on them instead of just the title? Why do restaurants have their logo on the sign instead of just their name? Because people do respond to visual stimuli. That is a fact, proven many times over.

I'm not saying you won't sell anything with a plain-vanilla website. I'm just saying you will typically sell more with a better designed website.

Personally, I go for quality content and visual appeal.

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scrofford

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Brad armPitt

Once again, I agree that content is the most important thing. But the OP is talking about selling a product, not advertising space. And I highly doubt he is bringing in millions of visitors a day, so the 'its a numbers game' theory doesn't apply here, either.

I think if you read back you will see that I stated that a website selling a product should not be filled with a bunch of graphics and be all pretty. The point I am making is that when selling a product with a SALES page, your page should really only have content on it. Graphics and pictures only cause distractions. I'm not going to argue this point much more. You obviously know what you are talking about and I don't!

By the way I never said anything was a numbers game. You might want to get your facts straight about that....just sayin.... I was talking about driving traffic and what constituted a consumer to stay on a page whether the site looked ugly or not. That's fine though. You know better so by all means go ahead and talk away! You must be a real expert then!

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Bradley J Anderson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by scrofford

I think if you read back you will see that I stated that a website selling a product should not be filled with a bunch of graphics and be all pretty. The point I am making is that when selling a product with a SALES page, your page should really only have content on it. Graphics and pictures only cause distractions. I'm not going to argue this point much more. You obviously know what you are talking about and I don't!

By the way I never said anything was a numbers game. You might want to get your facts straight about that....just sayin.... I was talking about driving traffic and what constituted a consumer to stay on a page whether the site looked ugly or not. That's fine though. You know better so by all means go ahead and talk away! You must be a real expert then!

First of all, I'm not arguing, I'm giving my opinion, which is what this board is all about. But if you want to get pissy about it, that's fine with me. I could care less.

Second, I never said YOU SAID it was a number game. I just said that theory doesn't apply here, like it would with Google or Facebook.

Third, I never said a page full of eye-candy is going to convert better. I said a professionally designed page would.

Third, I've been making well over 6 figures a year for quite a while now, so I must be doing something right.

And lastly, a low post count doesn't mean I'm new at Warriors Forum or an amateur IMer. It just means it's a new account.

But anyway, I've seen your canine site, and I think it speaks for itself...

That's the last I'll be posting on this, because I've had my say. It's up to everyone to figure out what works for best for them in the long run, and testing is the best way to do that.

Personally, I've found a combination of the two works best.

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scrofford

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Brad armPitt

First of all, I'm not arguing, I'm giving my opinion, which is what this board is all about. But if you want to get pissy about it, that's fine with me. I could care less.

Second, I never said YOU SAID it was a number game. I just said that theory doesn't apply here, like it would with Google or Facebook.

Third, I never said a page full of eye-candy is going to convert better. I said a professionally designed page would.

Third, I've been making well over 6 figures a year for quite a while now, so I must be doing something right.

And lastly, a low post count doesn't mean I'm new at Warriors Forum or an amateur IMer. It just means it's a new account.

But anyway, I've seen your canine site, and I think it speaks for itself...

That's the last I'll be posting on this, because I've had my say. It's up to everyone to figure out what works for best for them in the long run, and testing is the best way to do that.

Personally, I've found a combination of the two works best.

Well I'm glad you think my site speaks for itself! It's doing quite well for a NEW site and I am quite proud of the traffic. I guess you understand then since you are so experienced that you don't want to start monetizing it too quickly then. But again, you seem to know it all so by all means feel free to post away! You are the man ya know!

And by the way, criticizing my website has NOTHING to do with the discussion here and was quite the low blow. Is that how you deal with your customers when they don't like something? Pretty rude if you ask me.

Just so I am being clear...a "professional looking page" without good sales copy when directly trying to sell a product isn't as important as the sales copy. It's that simple.

And by the way, opinions really DON'T matter here. Facts do, and it's a FACT that when it comes to selling a product, content (good sales copy) is more important than eye catching, pretty looking websites. Convincing someone to buy your product with WORDS out does pretty pictures and graphics all day long!

Opinions here tend to lead people who don't know anything down the wrong road. You can have your opinion though that's fine. Rock on dude!

I'm going to stop now before I say something I shouldn't! I'm glad you know your stuff though!

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waterotter

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Brad armPitt

But then again Google, Craigslist and Facebook aren't selling you anything, either. And they also don't have the typical 'content' that a sales site would have, so those really are not good examples.

Jim Straw has a really good example of a no-frills, high-converting sales page, though. But I can't for the life of me remember the url. Anyone know it, by any chance?

Is this the site you're talking about:

You Can Be A Millionaire In One-Year Or Less!

Can't get much more basic than this - but it's got killer copy!

Jody

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paintbrush4u 13 years ago

t

Originally Posted by waterotter

Is this the site you're talking about:

You Can Be A Millionaire In One-Year Or Less!

Can't get much more basic than this - but it's got killer copy!

Jody

Not to take away from this thread....but I would remiss..if i didn't mention that the video on this is killer VID too...

Anyways back to work....
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scrofford

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ben_Doyle

Hey everyone!

I'm in a bit of a pickle.

I have produced a product which I am fine tuning at the minute. But I have got a WF member to design me a mini site and we are really struggling to come up with something that I like.

So I have been looking around Clickbank to get a few ideas but the websites look crap. They're just words on a page!

Does this really work?

I thought a smart looking site would inspire a bit more confidence in a customer. I'm now wondering whether I am just wasting my money.

What do you guy's suggest?

Thanks!

Ben

You are probably looking at direct response sales pages and really that's what you want to sell a product online - usually. Your website doesn't need to have a bunch of graphics and distractions going on. All it needs is the content of the sales letter.

What will inspire confidence in the customer is your sales copy and what you say in it. Maybe you should study direct response copywriting so you understand what is going on with that. The "prettiness" of a site doesn't matter when selling MOST products. It's the sales copy that sells.

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Brendon Zahrndt

13 years ago

One man's trash is another man's treasure.

Sorry for this crappy post.

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Virtualghost

13 years ago

bateati
I like clean simple sites without too much clutter yours is nice just thought I'd pass that on nice example of clean simple to the point.

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Palusko

13 years ago

It all depends on brand. Fancy jewelry store will have different requirements than a website of a dog trainer selling his dog training videos.

Also, keep in mind, that many times, loading times are what counts more than artwork. On top of that, most sale pages are quite long, with lot of graphics and images and most of them also feature a video, so to limit the design is a must if you want your page to load as fast as possible.

I think this is also the reason why Craigslist and Facebook use fairly simple interface, especially since both are very database heavy websites. If you added to much eye candy, the loading times would kill them as people are more willing to look at crappy site (with content) that loads fast, than wait for a fancy site to load.

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taffie 13 years ago

It's what's behind the crappy sites that count, I see a lot of people don't understand that. You send them to a squeeze page and they think oh, just a one page website, not knowing it could be loaded with wisdom.
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Ken Durham

13 years ago

What's wrong with having good content and a good design? I have read reports from Clickz and other firms that suggest, though a person says design does not matter, when presented with 2 sites of the same content, but one site being plain while the other aesthetically pleasing, that the majority select the latter.

An interesting read: What Matters Most To Your Website? Good Design, Copy or Both?

Lots of excellent material with large case studies: ClickZ | Marketing News & Expert Advice

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cheerios2009

13 years ago

Crappy is relative. When your visitor arrives, if they are hit with all types of visuals that overwhelm the content, that's a crappy site that is not going anywhere.

If your visitors lands on the page and the content, extactly what they wanted to KNOW and are looking for is right there in plain sight, well, even if the site is just a white page with a black boarder, that's not going to deter the visitor from staying around to find out more.

It's all about the content and giving people exactly what they came to find. It's not about images. Images are great, I've seen some really great websites that make you go, "wow", but if all you do is admire the images, well, that could also be a crappy site in the end, since the visitor did nothing more than admire the look of the site, but missed the "point" of the site.

Best Wishes,
Chrisi

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iobeek

13 years ago

By some standards this is one crappy site : useit.com: Jakob Nielsen on Usability and Web Design

BUT

it is oh so easy to navigate, oh so easy to read, it's perfect and oh yes, it sells

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paintbrush4u

13 years ago

Originally Posted by iobeek

By some standards this is one crappy site : useit.com: Jakob Nielsen on Usability and Web Design

BUT

it is oh so easy to navigate, oh so easy to read, it's perfect and oh yes, it sells

Man... .this is crappy....its so not eye-candy....
but I guess its not appealing to ppl looking for eye-candies...
Its mass appeal to all the geeks and real analytical ppl i guess....
He is the same guy who wrote the book web-usability too right?

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sirgeo

13 years ago

It depends on who your audience is and what the end result is of the site (the goal). I am a huge believer in clean and professional sites but as the first warrior mentioned about CL, FB, and Drudge..they prove you dont need to be nice. Content and functionality will beat out design any day. But if you can have both then even better.

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Raydal

13 years ago

More important than looks is the answer to the question of
how functional your site is.

The Google home page is not pretty but it is functional.

A lot of the popular "ugly" website are functional. You have
no question what they are about when you arrive on the
page.

-Ray Edwards

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James Blair

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ben_Doyle

Hey everyone!

I'm in a bit of a pickle.

I have produced a product which I am fine tuning at the minute. But I have got a WF member to design me a mini site and we are really struggling to come up with something that I like.

So I have been looking around Clickbank to get a few ideas but the websites look crap. They're just words on a page!

Does this really work?

I thought a smart looking site would inspire a bit more confidence in a customer. I'm now wondering whether I am just wasting my money.

What do you guy's suggest?

Thanks!

Ben

I'll tell you this. I've had super "ugly" little websites convert like crazy. Up to triple my conv. rates with a typical "pretty" page. In many markets simple is better.

It just depends on the market you're targeting. Of course, be sure to test like crazy.

James

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Bradley J Anderson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

Is this the site you're talking about:

You Can Be A Millionaire In One-Year Or Less!

Can't get much more basic than this - but it's got killer copy!

Jody

Yes, that is the one! Thank you once again, Jody.

That is an example of a crappy looking website that certainly breaks the mold, I admit. This guy has made millions and millions of dollars over the years. He was a member here, as well, but I'm not sure if he still is or not.

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Palusko

13 years ago

This isn't really so much a content based website, but rather a collection of sales pages. So the visual style is completely secondary, even irrelevant to the actual sale copy. The style always needs to complement the message the site is trying to get across. And in this case, the goal is to lead the user through the sales page to the PayPal button, as smoothly and with as little distraction as possible.

Originally Posted by Brad armPitt

Yes, that is the one! Thank you once again, Jody.

That is an example of a crappy looking website that certainly breaks the mold, I admit. This guy has made millions and millions of dollars over the years. He was a member here, as well, but I'm not sure if he still is or not.

Thanks

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bretski

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Brad armPitt

Yes, that is the one! Thank you once again, Jody.

That is an example of a crappy looking website that certainly breaks the mold, I admit. This guy has made millions and millions of dollars over the years. He was a member here, as well, but I'm not sure if he still is or not.

Yes, I think that Jim still has an account although he was banned for a short period of time over what I believe was a simple misunderstanding. I don't know him personally but I think that he pokes his head in from time to time... posted something a few months back that caused a bit of a stir... long story...

Yes, crappy looking website but if it converts then that's what matters...

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Anonymous Affiliate

13 years ago

We're in 2011, not in 2001 anymore. Looks do matter. Dont sabotage your own success with an amateurish interface. Design is cheap to outsource anyway, and everyone prefers good looks.

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Simplifyit

13 years ago

Guys,

I am completely new to internet marketing...and new to warrior forum..I was told no best place to trust and get a pro opinion than at this forum..

I am looking forward to get my own website and want to create one using
a drag-and-drop editor which I could upgrade further on.

I've seen some like business blinkweb and wix.com, yet this last one looks way more profesional...which one you rather recommend to get started in
terms of price, graphics, and else??

Thanks!

Thanks

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seosoldier

13 years ago

There is crappy... and then there is cR aPP y !!
I think that - like most things in life - it's a matter of balance. You don't have to have a perfectly beautiful site but if you have a crappy one it sure isn't going to help you any.

On the other hand if you offer a truly great deal on something people want or need, even a crappy site will work fine.

Personally I am really turned off by crappy sites and I think, "Hmm. Do I really want to buy from this place?" I have declined to order from some of those crappy sites even though they have a great price and good reviews. I think, "But can I TRUST people who put together a fly-by-night-looking crappy site like this???

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Thomas Michal

13 years ago

If you were to ask me I would say that the aesthetic of a page is important when it comes to selling a product or service at least to a younger tech savvy market.

I for one hate terrible design and tacky looking pages, yes there is craigslist but that is an exception and I'm willing to bet that Google and Facebook dump thousands if not millions into the aesthetic research of their site.

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dotgirish

13 years ago

I had read some where about monetizing with adsense using crappy website. It was a case study and final learning was, since the user get pissed off and click on his ads to escape from that site

.. I know , it is not accepted by many but there are people making money out of it. So crappy sites are not always crappy as we think.

Thanks

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shireen

13 years ago

Hi:

Shireen here :-)

I've done some testing & measuring myself and found out...

Good looking minisite will get a higher perceive value compare to ugly site.

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