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Has Internet Marketing Replaced Mail Order Marketing?

by The Niche Man
32 replies
I can remember when mail order marketing was the rage 20 years ago. You saw ads everywhere. But not anymore.

With the high cost of postage, printing and labor. Has Internet Marketing been the final nail in the coffin of mail order for everyone except huge corporations and charitable organizations?

Or is there still a place for the little guy? What say you?
#internet #mail #marketing #order #replaced
  • Profile picture of the author priyankeshu
    i think it still has a place.. in fact it can be used in conjunction with internet stuff...

    Many old systems are cheap and effective... depends on how u are doing it..
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    I just don't think you can compare the two, this way. It's merely a new landscape where both are used.
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    • Profile picture of the author Your Brand Ebooks
      I owned a mail order company years ago. We shipped a new catalog every few weeks. Aside from designing the catalogs, ordering inventory, and managing employees, it's a rather simple business: Catalogs mail out (print house delivers catalogs to mailing house), phones ring, customers order. Once you find good lists that pull (thru testing) and you're in a good profit zone, it's just a matter of rolling out. (what I mean by roll out: If a test mailing to 4,000 electicians is profitible, the roll out 50,000 electricians and it that works, then roll out to the entire list of 200,000 electricians)

      I'm no longer in the catalog /mail order business, but know others who are. It's still crazy profitable. (even smaller companies with 6 or less employees easily do $1-$2 million/yr)


      .. > It's usually more cost effective to
      .. > market online than traditional mailorder.

      With IM once you hit a certain growth point, you need a full-time person to manage your email deliverability. Someone who can get on the phone with the large ISPs as well as with the email departments of Google, Yahoo, Hotmail and others, and do what it takes to keep your email deliverability acceptable. Plus, the larger you get, the more you are subject to security attacks. There are those plus many other headaches & gotcha's that come with a fast growing Internet business. The catalog / mail order business on the other hand is very simple. (print catalogs, mail catalogs, make moolah, then repeat)
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      • Profile picture of the author Your Brand Ebooks
        Lots of friends and relatives are into horses. If one wanted to, they could go to a competition just about every weekend between March and October. The horse community is HUGE. And the items are expensive. (i.e. saddles cost several thousand dollars) And people who have horses must get what they need, so they are "buyers" willing to take out their credit card.

        And, from what I can see, most all of them shop from mail order catalogs. A popular one is the Horse.com catalog--yes some people use their website, but most all buy from the catalog. The browse pages, select what that want, then phone the 24/7 order line.

        Just one example showing that catalog mail order is alive and well.
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        ONCE UPON A TIME there was a Warrior named Bob. He was sad. And frustrated. You see, Warrior Bob spent every last nickel on Internet Marketing e-books. But nothing panned out. No traffic. No sales. He was one sad Bob. Then one day Bob found a bottle. He rubbed it and out came a Genie who granted him 3 wishes. For Wish #1 Bob asked for a pet Dragon. Wish Granted. For Wish #2, Bob wanted Warriors' websites seen by 53 million TV viewers, for under $5 per broadcast. The Genie said... (click here)
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        • Profile picture of the author misterkailo
          Originally Posted by Your Brand Ebooks View Post

          Lots of friends and relatives are into horses. If one wanted to, they could go to a competition just about every weekend between March and October. The horse community is HUGE. And the items are expensive. (i.e. saddles cost several thousand dollars) And people who have horses must get what they need, so they are "buyers" willing to take out their credit card.

          And, from what I can see, most all of them shop from mail order catalogs. A popular one is the Horse.com catalog--yes some people use their website, but most all buy from the catalog. The browse pages, select what that want, then phone the 24/7 order line.

          Just one example showing that catalog mail order is alive and well.
          This is a very good example of why mail order will never die out.. Or at least not anytime soon!!
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        • Profile picture of the author kellyburdes
          Ive always done info products and never would have even thought of retail even in my direct mail business. I sell some supplements that people get after they buy a better abs course etc, but I'd have never thought of doing straight up retail. Thanks you for the idea. Gives me something to research and play around with!!


          Originally Posted by Your Brand Ebooks View Post

          Lots of friends and relatives are into horses. If one wanted to, they could go to a competition just about every weekend between March and October. The horse community is HUGE. And the items are expensive. (i.e. saddles cost several thousand dollars) And people who have horses must get what they need, so they are "buyers" willing to take out their credit card.

          And, from what I can see, most all of them shop from mail order catalogs. A popular one is the Horse.com catalog--yes some people use their website, but most all buy from the catalog. The browse pages, select what that want, then phone the 24/7 order line.

          Just one example showing that catalog mail order is alive and well.
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  • Profile picture of the author Terry Hatfield
    On the way home from the store I heard 3 radio commercials sending traffic to a webiste.

    So I think if you blend mail order media with internet you will do quite well.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hesaidblissfully
      Marketing online has a lower barrier to entry, so what you're seeing probably reflects the fact that people who would've gotten into mail order 20 years ago are now doing it online.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Benjamin
        Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

        I can remember when mail order marketing was the rage 20 years ago. You saw ads everywhere. But not anymore.

        With the high cost of postage, printing and labor. Has Internet Marketing been the final nail in the coffin of mail order for everyone except huge corporations and charitable organizations?

        Or is there still a place for the little guy? What say you?
        Hmmm...

        high cost of postage, printing, and labor? Postage is
        consistent (if not a little lower) than inflation.

        Printing is dirt cheap (even in low quantities).

        Labor is a "non-issue" in the grand scheme of things.

        If you're earning 2-3 mill a year, would it really be a
        high cost to hire 2 or 3 people to help?

        As far as mail order being the rage 20 years ago...

        a shame people stopped and followed the latest fad
        and trend (online).

        Direct Mail is, from personal experience affordable if
        compared to IM. Crazy? Not really.

        You'd think it were the opposite if you factor in the
        cost of MONEY - but the reality is FEW internet mar
        -keters place MORE value on their TIME.

        The illusion that anything that's FREE is better is so
        screwed up because it's the obvious choice. Yet...

        far from the SMARTEST choice.

        And, that's fine. Some people LIKE it that way.


        Originally Posted by priyankeshu View Post

        i think it still has a place.. in fact it can be used in conjunction with internet stuff...

        Many old systems are cheap and effective... depends on how u are doing it..
        Yes. It can be used "as is" with no online influence
        (toll-free #, mail in coupon, etc) or with an online
        influence.


        Originally Posted by Your Brand Ebooks View Post

        I owned a mail order company years ago. We shipped a new catalog every few weeks. Aside from designing the catalogs, ordering inventory, and managing employees, it's a rather simple business: Catalogs mail out (print house delivers catalogs to mailing house), phones ring, customers order. Once you find good lists that pull (thru testing) and you're in a good profit zone, it's just a matter of rolling out. (what I mean by roll out: If a test mailing to 4,000 electicians is profitible, the roll out 50,000 electricians and it that works, then roll out to the entire list of 200,000 electricians)

        I'm no longer in the catalog /mail order business, but know others who are. It's still crazy profitable. (even smaller companies with 6 or less employees easily do $1-$2 million/yr)


        .. > It's usually more cost effective to
        .. > market online than traditional mailorder.

        With IM once you hit a certain growth point, you need a full-time person to manage your email deliverability. Someone who can get on the phone with the large ISPs as well as with the email departments of Google, Yahoo, Hotmail and others, and do what it takes to keep your email deliverability acceptable. Plus, the larger you get, the more you are subject to security attacks. There are those plus many other headaches & gotcha's that come with a fast growing Internet business. The catalog / mail order business on the other hand is very simple. (print catalogs, mail catalogs, make moolah, then repeat)
        this was VERY educational and enlightening.

        Originally Posted by Hesaidblissfully View Post

        Marketing online has a lower barrier to entry, so what you're seeing probably reflects the fact that people who would've gotten into mail order 20 years ago are now doing it online.
        People automatically assume "low barrier to entry"
        = Easier money.

        But the EASIER it is - even if just perception wise
        - the LESS money you and anyone else who do it
        makes...because if it were so EASY everyone who
        did it would be making money.

        Trying to help others SEE writing articles, twitter-
        ing, blogging, and video recording is far costlier to
        you in the long-term than more expensive options
        is like scratching a chalkboard with nails...

        they cover their ears and refuse to hear it.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    The question wasn't has internet marketing "killed" mail order marketing, but has it "replaced" it. And I think the answer to that one is probably yes. And my only evidence is the fact that my daily delivery of a mailbox full of junk, has over the last decade been replaced by an emailbox full of junk. I don't get near as much junkmail as I have in the past.
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    • Profile picture of the author Meharis
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      over the last decade been replaced by an emailbox full of junk. I don't get near as much junkmail as I have in the past.
      GaryV.
      That's the point. The "spam" mail we don't even see it at all.
      However, I'm sure we are opening letters that look like with
      "good content" inside.
      I believe until we don't get rid of "paper" Mail Order will be
      around regardless of business volume.
      I remain sending "some" of my offers through regular USPS.
      Meharis
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
    Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

    I can remember when mail order marketing was the rage 20 years ago. You saw ads everywhere. But not anymore.

    With the high cost of postage, printing and labor. Has Internet Marketing been the final nail in the coffin of mail order for everyone except huge corporations and charitable organizations?

    Or is there still a place for the little guy? What say you?
    It's not how expensive it is. It's how profitable it is. R.O.I.

    According to the U.S. Postal Service, direct mail increased in 2010 and is still on the upswing.

    The people who know how to do (and write) direct mail are still doing it because it works.

    The people who don't know how to do (and write) direct mail are relying on email marketing and hoping their message gets read over the hundreds already sitting in their prospects' inboxes.

    Take care,

    Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author mmixon
    I think that Direct Mail or Outbound Marketing, what many now call "Interruption Marketing", is being replaced with Inbound Marketing. Outbound Marketing targets a broad group of people with direct mail, tv or print ads, and hope something sticks.

    Inbound Marketing uses content in ebooks, blogs, videos, etc., seo, and social media such as Facebook, Twitter, etc., to attract prospective customers and they opt in. With inbound marketing the customer is in control. Inbound marketing helps yourself get found, and a customer that "likes" you, is way more likely to buy something from you.

    So to answer your original question, yes, the internet is replacing direct mail, not just because of the cost, but because the consumer is tired of being bombarded with a never ending stream of outbound marketing, and it is becoming less and less effective.

    Remember Hope and Change? It propelled an unknown, inexperienced, nobody, into the most powerful office in the world. So does inbound marketing work? You Betcha!
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      LOL! Google itself uses direct mail marketing on a massive scale! And they are perhaps now the largest advertising and marketing company worldwide.
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      • Profile picture of the author naruq
        Internet Marketing Has Not Replaced Mail Order Marketing! As a matter of fact I do a lot of offline Marketing that is very successful. For Example, I use Postcards, Classified and Display Ads in Targeted Industry magazines.
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      • Profile picture of the author mmixon
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        LOL! Google itself uses direct mail marketing on a massive scale! And they are perhaps now the largest advertising and marketing company worldwide.
        A multi-billion dollar company can like Google can afford to waste money. Most marketers and small businesses need a return on investment. The average response on a direct mail piece is 2%....2 responses for every 100 pieces of direct mail.

        And out of the 2 "responses", you may not sell either one anything.

        Throwing $75 into the wind to mass mail 100 postcards, (or $500 to mail 1,000) in hopes that it might generate a sale or 2 is out of my budget. I need something that works.

        Remember the yellow pages, phone books in general and printed books? The internet has replaced, or is in the process of replacing those as a traditional marketing medium. Every major newspaper in the country is on a loosing trend, and magazines are floundering. Most will disappear within the next 5 years. I'm just saying that traditional marketing is dead or dying. The world is changing and the mindset of people is changing. New methods are cheaper and work better for most people.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
          Originally Posted by mmixon View Post

          A multi-billion dollar company can like Google can afford to waste money. Most marketers and small businesses need a return on investment. The average response on a direct mail piece is 2%....2 responses for every 100 pieces of direct mail.

          And out of the 2 "responses", you may not sell either one anything.
          According to a 2010 U.S. Postal Service, the businesses they surveyed got an average of 3.4% response rate.

          Last year, the majority of the major mailers increased their direct mail sent. It's trackable and they can pick the exact mailing list made up of the prospects with the demographics they want to hit.

          Most of them do not use or barely use social media because it's difficult to target the right prospects and even harder to track what is working and what is not.

          Throwing $75 into the wind to mass mail 100 postcards, (or $500 to mail 1,000) in hopes that it might generate a sale or 2 is out of my budget. I need something that works.
          It comes down to R.O.I. and the value of a new customer to your business.

          I once wrote a 3 step direct mail campaign for a cosmetic dentist. It pulled a 0.5% response rate and he was delighted. Why?

          Because the lifetime value of a new patient for him is about $10K and his "A" patients are worth about $80K to him. Spending $2k on a mailing campaign was a bargain because of how much money each new patient is worth to him.

          Remember the yellow pages, phone books in general and printed books? The internet has replaced, or is in the process of replacing those as a traditional marketing medium. Every major newspaper in the country is on a loosing trend, and magazines are floundering. Most will disappear within the next 5 years. I'm just saying that traditional marketing is dead or dying. The world is changing and the mindset of people is changing. New methods are cheaper and work better for most people.
          Depends on the target market. Many seniors still turn to the Yellow Pages out of habit. 2 Biggest reasons why brick and mortar businesses are cutting back/eliminating their Yellow Page advertising... It goes up 7% (on average) in cost every year and if you have a business phone line, you get a free listing in YP. Depending on their profit margins, a 7% hike in Yellow Pages could mean that their ad has to pull 15%+ additional business than the previous year. Problem is, most brick and mortar businesses are running weak or bad ads so the odds of their ads covering the additional cost are slim to none.

          Local searches have been on the upswing since the early 2000's. Last time I checked it was over 60% of Google's searches being done.

          Magazines and newspapers... their decline has more to do with decreasing readership and poor management than anything else.

          As for traditional marketing dying... sorry, I don't buy it. Until there's no longer any physical mail being delivered, I don't see direct mail ever going away.

          My 3 cents,

          Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    I have a feeling that direct mail marketing will be making a big comeback. It's becoming harder and more expensive for the big email companies to stay off of the black-lists and to comply with the ever changing spam laws and regulations. - Which is also a good reason why fan-pages and social marketing have become so huge.
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    • Profile picture of the author mmixon
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      I have a feeling that direct mail marketing will be making a big comeback. It's becoming harder and more expensive for the big email companies to stay off of the black-lists and to comply with the ever changing spam laws and regulations. - Which is also a good reason why fan-pages and social marketing have become so huge.
      i hope you are right. I genuinely like postcard marketing, and if I were going to do direct mail, that would be my choice.

      I'm just saying that with the economy like it is, with people like they are, and with all the changes and advances in marketing technology, etc.

      Email was popular, but is now in decline also, for the reasons like you said. Mobile marketing is my trend of choice right now, but I'm sure it will all shake out in the end. Whatever works, don't you know.
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  • Profile picture of the author Charliebee
    Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

    I can remember when mail order marketing was the rage 20 years ago. You saw ads everywhere. But not anymore.

    With the high cost of postage, printing and labor. Has Internet Marketing been the final nail in the coffin of mail order for everyone except huge corporations and charitable organizations?

    Or is there still a place for the little guy? What say you?

    Could be there is less competition now with the high cost of postage. And maybe with the higher cost of fuel, many may be shopping at home instead of going to the store somewhere.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      When the amount spent on postage in the US drops below $50billion per year, there may be a little tingle of concern for its demise. :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author kellyburdes
    You should check out Doberman Dan. He's got an awesome course on starting kitchen table direct mail (good ole US Postal Service) business.

    In his material he states it can be done for around $200. In my experience (I've started 4 of them), it was between $800 and $1200 to start one.

    I have one that I couldn't get above breakeven, so I gave up. One that flopped, so I gave up.

    Another one was a moderate success and I ended up selling it for $17,000 after 4 months. The other one makes me about $3500/$4000 a month in profit, I spend about 6 to 10 hours a month on it and that one cost me around $900 to start and about 100 hours of my time.

    Personally make more with my online business, but for some reason I really enjoy the old school stuff. My goal is to get the business to the $250/$300K level with in the next 18 months, and if I do that I should be able to sell it for right around $1million. That's the goal for now anyway.

    Anyway that's kind of a long answer, but the reply is yes, old school direct mail stuff works, pretty well. And also yes, it's possible for a little guy to become successful with it.

    One thing to note is that when you use the US Post Office there are a lot of rules and regulations you MUST follow, and i you don't the Postal Inspectors have a nasty habit of giving out huge fines and sending people to prison.

    Hope this all helps.

    Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

    I can remember when mail order marketing was the rage 20 years ago. You saw ads everywhere. But not anymore.

    With the high cost of postage, printing and labor. Has Internet Marketing been the final nail in the coffin of mail order for everyone except huge corporations and charitable organizations?

    Or is there still a place for the little guy? What say you?
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  • Profile picture of the author kellyburdes
    IMHO people who look at the Internet as something apart and special are going to lose out. The big winners that you see are the companies who realize that the Internet is one additional form, but not the only form of media. So they use the 'net, they use television, radio, print, etc etc.

    It's about getting yourself exposed in as many places as possible. I myself haven't gotten that big yet -but some day hope too.
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  • Profile picture of the author zacsmith
    Direct mail and direct marketing will be around for a while.

    One of my offline clients is an international association (I provide publisher's and marketing services). They use constant direct mailings (postcards, flyers, books and a monthly magazine) to drive prospects to their various websites and offer pages.

    Some get great response. Others not so much. But with the constant mailing and testing of offers, enough recipients respond to keep a flow of new members willing to pay a hefty monthly fee to the association.

    I use postcards to drive traffic to my own sites, using highly-targeted lists to keep my costs down.

    All this supplements Internet methods. But the two go hand-in-hand.

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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    Even in austrlia the MO industry is alive. It works well over here. But they both have their strong points and weak points. But they will never die.
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  • Profile picture of the author BoDarville
    My uncle 'owns' a niche ... yeah, owns it. Okay, all but owns it -- he's one of only a handful of businesses licensed to use a government creation -- he had a head start, more money, and more influence than his competition so now he's like the Microsoft of that space. He has a website but makes the majority of his $800,000 each year by sending out his catalog. One guy from a one room office runs his entire 'operation'.

    I'll be honest - I would love to take him down because I've come from nothing, he's had millions my entire life, and pretty much never lifted a finger -- and it's a good time to do it - but that license he owns the rights to ... that's just about all but impossible to get (he spent several hundred thousand simply in litigation over it) ... so...
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    still get as many or more mail order catalogs as I did in the '80s... it must work.
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  • Profile picture of the author WikiServo
    This type of marketing still have a place for it. it's like.. when you sent a letter or emailing your girlfriend.
    What are more romantic and touch her heart? of course the letter.

    This type of marketing will completely gone when all the magazine and newspaper gone.
    did i said it in a right way buddy?
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  • Profile picture of the author PatriciaJ
    I ran a mail order home business from 1997 to 2002. Internet marketing is easier in a physical sense and I get more privacy. My home isn't an office any more - it was great getting a new carpet that didn't have toner stains from the copier.

    Apart from that there aren't any post offices near me now and the hundreds of envelopes that I used to send out daily would be too much for the little post boxes available.
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  • Profile picture of the author armadillo
    Because of the nature of the business, which becomes all-encompassing for those of us who are online marketers, we often lose track of the fact that only about 35% of the population is computer-savvy and online to any great extent. Those brick and mortar places we hear rumors of actually comprise about 65% of the public out there. There's a reason that offline operations have become soooo popular as WSO's lately.
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