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The "SECRET" to making money online...

by Derek_Thomas
89 replies
...traffic and conversion.

And that's all you need to know.

No magic. Just work hard at the basics.

Fortunately for you, this Forum has great free resources on both. If you need more direction on where to start, just ask. But do look around for yourself first. Be proactive by digesting the information that's already been written.

For me personally, there were two resources outside of this Forum that proved invaluable when I was first starting out.

Ed Dale's Challenge

...and

Paul Myer's Need To Know

I have no affiliation with either, it's just high quality information worth sharing.

So I'm not sure why you clicked to read this post.

If it was because you really wanted to learn the "secret", I'm glad to be the one to disappoint you. The sooner you wake up and learn there is no secret, the better.

If you were just curious as to what I'd say, well thanks for reading.

Either way, good luck to all.

Derek
#make money online #making #money #online #secret
  • Profile picture of the author KenB
    I would have to disagree. There are many concepts, techniques and "secrets" that I've stumbled upon through many years of internet marketing. There are different approaches and many diverse ways to run your campaigns whether it be affiliate marketing, or even other ways of monetization. From micro niche sites to auto blogs. There are literally countless ways to make money online, so many untapped ventures and this is only the beginning. Traffic is important of course, but the methods to obtain traffic, to make conversions, there are literally countless ways, I wouldn't even know where to begin. My recommendations to you all is to find something of your interest, apply yourself. Work right. Work smart, and work hard. You will see results. Don't get discouraged and never give up. I can't stress this enough. Do NOT give up. Ever, there is always light on the other side, and that's where paradise lies.
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek_Thomas
      Originally Posted by KenB View Post

      Traffic is important of course, but the methods to obtain traffic, to make conversions, there are literally countless ways, I wouldn't even know where to begin.
      My point exactly.

      Traffic and conversions are what you need.

      Everything else is a method.

      Methods come and go. Traffic and conversion remain.

      Derek
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      • Profile picture of the author KenB
        Originally Posted by Derek Thomas View Post

        My point exactly.

        Traffic and conversions are what you need.

        Everything else is a method.

        Methods come and go. Traffic and conversion remain.

        Derek
        Thats not a secret. Thats completely blatant if you are into IM. Traffic is the most important factor, as well as content. Conversions aren't the only ways to monetize, I make more money with adsense and CPA with sites than on a sales page that has a 20% rate of conversions. It's really diverse and there are limitless ways, find one that works for you.
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek_Thomas
          Originally Posted by KenB View Post

          Thats not a secret. Thats completely blatant if you are into IM.
          No it's not a "secret" per se (notice the tongue in cheek there) but it's certainly not as obvious as you may think. Many, many people miss this fundamental principle.

          Traffic is the most important factor, as well as content.
          My point exactly. Content relates to conversions.

          Conversions aren't the only ways to monetize
          Everything is about conversions. It's more than getting someone to click the "buy now" button. It's about getting someone to submit their email address for a CPA offer. That's a conversion. It's about positioning your Adsense ads to maximize click throughs. That's about conversions too.

          EVERYTHING is about maximizing conversions.

          It's really diverse and there are limitless ways, find one that works for you.
          Diverse and limitless methods. Methods change. The fundamentals stay the same.

          Best of luck,
          Derek
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        • Profile picture of the author Linda_C
          Originally Posted by KenB View Post

          Conversions aren't the only ways to monetize, I make more money with adsense and CPA with sites than on a sales page that has a 20% rate of conversions.
          That's just different types of conversion. Conversion is simply someone taking an action you want them to.

          -If you want someone to click your ad and they do - that's a conversion
          -If you want someone to take an action (CPA) & they do - conversion
          -If you want them to subscribe and they do - conversion
          -If you want them to buy something and they do - conversion

          Derek is right. Traffic and conversion. That's all there is.

          Everything else is a METHOD to achieve one or the other.
          (ie; a method to achieve traffic or a method to achieve conversion)

          There's LOTS of methods.
          All of them strive for one or the other.. to get traffic, or convert traffic.

          That's is. That's what selling is about. Online or offline.
          Traffic and converting. (ie getting the traffic to take a desired action)
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        • Profile picture of the author scrofford
          Originally Posted by KenB View Post

          Thats not a secret. Thats completely blatant if you are into IM. Traffic is the most important factor, as well as content. Conversions aren't the only ways to monetize, I make more money with adsense and CPA with sites than on a sales page that has a 20% rate of conversions. It's really diverse and there are limitless ways, find one that works for you.
          A conversion is a conversion whether it's on a sales page or an opt-in through to a CPA offer or clicking through on an adsense ad. I think maybe you should go back and learn what the word "conversion" means. just sayin...
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      • Profile picture of the author George Langer
        Originally Posted by Derek Thomas View Post

        My point exactly.

        Traffic and conversions are what you need.

        Everything else is a method.

        Methods come and go. Traffic and conversion remain.

        Derek
        I agree - on high level. But even with that you probably won't suceed in long term without solid strategy. Traffic and conversion for what? You must build your durable virtual equity...

        Good luck
        George
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    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by KenB View Post

      I would have to disagree. There are many concepts, techniques and "secrets" that I've stumbled upon through many years of internet marketing. There are different approaches and many diverse ways to run your campaigns whether it be affiliate marketing, or even other ways of monetization. From micro niche sites to auto blogs. There are literally countless ways to make money online, so many untapped ventures and this is only the beginning. Traffic is important of course, but the methods to obtain traffic, to make conversions, there are literally countless ways, I wouldn't even know where to begin.
      The OP is correct...traffic and conversions are really it. Yes there are many diverse ways to get traffic to your offer or website, but without traffic there are no conversions. Without conversions there's no payday. It's that simple. So I don't know how you can disagree with the OP.
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by scrofford View Post

        The OP is correct...traffic and conversions are really it. Yes there are many diverse ways to get traffic to your offer or website, but without traffic there are no conversions. Without conversions there's no payday. It's that simple. So I don't know how you can disagree with the OP.
        Hehe - I'm willing to give it a go

        Something about people saying "this is what it's all about" makes me want to find an exception

        Actually there are a lot of exceptions but because of the generic statement they would all end up turning into semantic debates about what 'traffic' actually is.

        For example - I have a membership site that does very well and I've done zero IM. The members are people my partner and I meet in person, so if you call person reference 'traffic' then we're back to anything then fits
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

          Something about people saying "this is what it's all about" makes me want to find an exception
          I know what you mean.

          Actually, if there is a "secret", it's probably cash flow.

          The highest traffic and the best conversions in the world won't matter if your cost of doing business is too high; for instance, if you pay too high a price for your traffic and/or get too low a margin for your product or service.

          Making a profit is what counts - not just making money.


          Frank
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          • Profile picture of the author Derek_Thomas
            Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

            I know what you mean.

            Actually, if there is a "secret", it's probably cash flow.

            The highest traffic and the best conversions in the world won't matter if your cost of doing business is too high; for instance, if you pay too high a price for your traffic and/or get too low a margin for your product or service.

            Making a profit is what counts - not just making money.

            Frank
            I agree.

            I did mention later on the importance of "maximizing" conversions. In my mind this involves several different things, not the least of which being increasing your profit margins and visitor value.

            So yes, profit trumps just "making money". However I'm struggling to see any other way of making that profit without (1) traffic and (2) conversions, in other words (1) people being "sold" your offer and (2) people actually "buying" your offer.

            I see Andy's point about semantics, but I think if a person transfers this principle to their unique context then it's true of every business.

            For instance, your definition of "traffic" may be website visitors, it may be people walking into your brick-and-mortar, or it may be people you personally invite to your membership site. Ultimately, the big idea and important principle I was initially trying to share was this: you need people to "sell" to. However you get them, you need that "traffic".

            Secondly, your preferred "conversion" may be as simple as someone clicking an Adsense ad. It may someone buying your product (digital or physical). It may be someone submitting their email address. It may be someone joining your membership site. The options here are limitless, and likely involves more than just one action. It completely depends on you and your business model. Your "conversion" is whatever desired action you wish your "traffic" to take. The important principle here: you need people to "buy" from you, or take a specific action.

            Now as mentioned earlier, you're correct. A part of maximizing these two fundamental principles is (1) getting targeted traffic, and (2) increasing profit margin as it relates to conversion rates.

            Andy mentioned some important factors such as product selection, financial planning, income and traffic diversification, etc., all of which are very true and important to consider. I don't disagree with that.

            The devil is in the details and no amount of generalising to sound clever will fill in those gaps for people.
            I'm not trying to be naive here and say there's nothing else to learn. I'm just saying I can't see how anything else doesn't directly relate to the simple (although not necessarily "easy") essentials of traffic and conversion.

            Derek
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            • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
              Originally Posted by Derek Thomas View Post

              I'm not trying to be naive here and say there's nothing else to learn. I'm just saying I can't see how anything else doesn't directly relate to traffic and conversion.

              Derek
              The point is - you seem to have decided that squeezing everything down to "traffic + conversions = Success" without considering that is not a useful outcome.

              For starters it's only true if you creatively look for ways to make everything fit in to it. Secondly it doesn't tell anyone what to do.

              It's obvious that to make money you have to swap something with someone. You want to call that someone traffic and that transaction a conversion - fine, but it doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know.

              In which case - what is the point of trying so hard to convince us? It seems it's more about feeding your ego than because it helps anyone.

              What is the purpose of trying to get people to buy-in to this 'secret'?
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              • Profile picture of the author Derek_Thomas
                Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

                fine, but it doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know.
                Who is this "us" and "we" you're talking about Andy?

                It may not have told you anything you didn't already know, but isn't it a bit presumptuous to speak for the community as a whole?

                In which case - what is the point of trying so hard to convince us? It seems it's more about feeding your ego than because it helps anyone.
                Egotistical? Really?

                I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I don't care really. I'm not even trying to "convince" anyone of anything. I'm just sharing my thoughts to do with as you wish. I even pointed people in three different directions to learn more.

                What is the purpose of trying to get people to buy-in to this 'secret'?
                Ultimately, this may be something you already know. Obviously you've been around for a while, have a lot of experience, and are probably quite successful. However, I see people every day who miss these basic fundamentals. So even though you say I'm not really helping anyone, I would say that while I may not be helping you, perhaps I'm helping someone.

                I just think we overcomplicate things way too often.

                My point in responding to you though: this "secret" is not as "obvious" to "us" as "you" may think.

                Best,
                Derek
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            • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
              Derek,

              I think most of us know what traffic and conversions are. And nobody is trying to deny their importance to the success of any online venture.

              However, you titled this thread "The SECRET to making money online"...when it clearly isn't much of a "secret".

              Then you stated in your OP:

              Originally Posted by Derek Thomas View Post

              And that's all you need to know.
              When really there's a bit more to a successful business than that. A fact you subsequently admitted:

              I'm not trying to be naive here and say there's nothing else to learn
              Many offline (and online) businesses have come unstuck by ignoring simple cash flow principles, in spite of a glut of customers and sales. It's worth mentioning that point in any discussion concerning essential business processes, IMO.

              And in spite of your expanded definition of conversions to include "increasing profit margins", that's not how most people understand the term.

              In case you think I'm being overly critical, I have to say I'm with you on trying to simplify this online business as much as possible - we do tend to over complicate matters. It's just that whenever I see blanket statements, I get the urge to roll back the bedding a little.


              Frank
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              • Profile picture of the author Derek_Thomas
                Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                In case you think I'm being overly critical, I have to say I'm with you on trying to simplify this online business as much as possible - we do tend to over complicate matters. It's just that whenever I see blanket statements, I get the urge to roll back the bedding a little.

                Frank
                Nothing to disagree with there. Nothing to argue about.

                Thanks for contributing to the discussion.

                Derek
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        • Profile picture of the author jahangir
          I got much knowledge about IM secrets, now I expect derek to reveal the methods to get more traffic and conversions.
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        • Profile picture of the author scrofford
          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

          Hehe - I'm willing to give it a go

          Something about people saying "this is what it's all about" makes me want to find an exception

          Actually there are a lot of exceptions but because of the generic statement they would all end up turning into semantic debates about what 'traffic' actually is.

          For example - I have a membership site that does very well and I've done zero IM. The members are people my partner and I meet in person, so if you call person reference 'traffic' then we're back to anything then fits
          Thanks Andy! I see your point there, although if your person reference goes to your membership on the internet, then it really is a form of traffic. I get what you're saying though.
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek_Thomas
          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

          Hehe - I'm willing to give it a go

          Something about people saying "this is what it's all about" makes me want to find an exception

          Actually there are a lot of exceptions but because of the generic statement they would all end up turning into semantic debates about what 'traffic' actually is.

          For example - I have a membership site that does very well and I've done zero IM. The members are people my partner and I meet in person, so if you call person reference 'traffic' then we're back to anything then fits
          "Semantic debate" or not, why would that not be considered "traffic"?

          Traffic = a group of people being presented with your offer, product, service, etc. Whether you meet them in person or though IM doesn't matter.

          Conversion then = getting that "traffic" to take a desired action.

          If you didn't personally meet and invite those people (your traffic) and those people didn't join your membership site (your conversions), then wouldn't it be safe to say your membership site wouldn't be doing as "well" as it is?

          Derek
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          • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
            Originally Posted by Derek Thomas View Post

            Conversion then = getting that "traffic" to take a desired action.
            Right - and heart surgery is simply "cutting people".
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  • Profile picture of the author shireen
    Hi:

    Shireen here :-)

    Thanks for the great thread, stick to the basic.
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek_Thomas
      Originally Posted by shireen View Post

      Hi:

      Shireen here :-)

      Thanks for the great thread, stick to the basic.
      You're welcome.

      Hope it helps.

      A few different things have been listed in addition to what I originally laid out: content, strategy, "balls", and even specific methods like Adsense or CPA.

      Here's the lesson to learn though:

      Originally Posted by Linda_C View Post

      Traffic and conversion. That's all there is.

      Everything else is a METHOD to achieve one or the other.
      (ie; a method to achieve traffic or a method to achieve conversion)
      My ultimate point in making this post?

      There is no secret. There may be something you don't yet know, but there is no push-button, magic secret.

      Here is the very basic, fundamental, undeniable, without-a-doubt root of online success: get traffic and maximize conversions.

      Does that involve a solid strategy? You'd better have a strategy (to get traffic and conversions).

      Does it take risk? An educated risk (to get traffic and conversions) on certain occasions.

      Does it involve hard work? You bet (but your work is wasted if it's not to produce traffic and increase conversions).

      ...and so on.

      Don't confuse the method or the mindset with the goal. Mindset is crucial. Methods vary. Get traffic and maximize conversions and it will be impossible to fail.

      Derek
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  • Profile picture of the author webmaster1742
    All we need is traffic - nothing else... the rest is so easy
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    • Profile picture of the author Ralf Skirr
      Originally Posted by webmaster1742 View Post

      All we need is traffic - nothing else... the rest is so easy
      Then why are there so many people posting on the forum that they're getting traffic but not making any money?
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    • Profile picture of the author JRCarson
      Originally Posted by webmaster1742 View Post

      All we need is traffic - nothing else... the rest is so easy
      No...(I have to make this comment longer, so I'll add...no)
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  • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
    I have to agree with the OP. It IS all about traffic and conversion.

    Methods drive traffic and conversion is a function of how well you pair your offer with your flavor of traffic. Obviously, the more targeted, the better.
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  • Profile picture of the author Devan Colby
    I would not spend time answering surveys or joining mlm programs. Some people may make that work but there are much better ways of making money online ( in my opinion ).

    The best way of starting out is by selling other people's products ( then later create your own ). This is called affiliate marketing and there are plenty of high quality marketplaces you can pick products out from to promote. A lot of these pay very generous commissions.
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    • Profile picture of the author skyla
      Originally Posted by Devan Colby View Post

      I would not spend time answering surveys or joining mlm programs. Some people may make that work but there are much better ways of making money online ( in my opinion ).

      The best way of starting out is by selling other people's products ( then later create your own ). This is called affiliate marketing and there are plenty of high quality marketplaces you can pick products out from to promote. A lot of these pay very generous commissions.
      I started out by offering a service and in the meantime created my own products. I am trying to concentrate more on product creation now as this is where I can make the most money.

      Definitely agree that traffic and conversions are what we need the most.

      Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author Richy Burns
    Well actually think the secret is good ol fashioned "balls"

    I mean i did many different things but the change came when i took chances financially. For me that meant that i was serious enough to actually hand over cash, invest in myself.

    Rich
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  • Profile picture of the author BloggingPro
    Making sales really is easy when you look at it in a simple form.

    Find market experiencing a problem, build or find a solution, offer said solution to market = make sales.

    The same principle applies when selling something that is purchased with disposable income.

    Find market desiring a product/service, build or find a product/service to suit that desire, offer said created product/service to market desiring that product/service = sales.

    Doesn't really matter what traffic generation technique you use, as long as your putting your product/service in front of people who A) Need it, or B) Want it, you'll make sales.

    Anything else is just over-complicating a very simple concept.
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  • Profile picture of the author shuvo
    Thanks for sharing those two resources.I also agree with you that traffic and conversion are thekeys to success and we always need to work on basics and sometimes we try too many things at a time and sometimes do too many experiments and if not successful then we give it up.
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  • Profile picture of the author Monidelgagrillo
    I agree. Network marketing is nothing more than a numbers game. The more numbers you get, the more leads you'll bring into your business but like everything else it takes hard work and dedication. You get out of it what you put into it.

    "Anything worth having takes time."
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  • Profile picture of the author Matthew Iannotti
    I clicked on it because I figured I'd get to shred the secret into a million bits..

    Except you were telling the truth
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Is this really a 'secret'?

    It's like telling a business owner - "hey I have the secret to business success - sell things to people!"
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    nothing to see here.

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    • Profile picture of the author Derek_Thomas
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Is this really a 'secret'?

      It's like telling a business owner - "hey I have the secret to business success - sell things to people!"
      Please refer to my post earlier in the thread here:

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post3880254

      If a business owner (for whatever reason) wasn't actually "selling things to people" and instead focusing on other things, then yes, I'd tell him exactly that. It may be common knowledge to you, but sadly it's not to all.

      Derek
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by Derek Thomas View Post

        Please refer to my post earlier in the thread here:

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post3880254

        If a business owner (for whatever reason) wasn't actually "selling things to people" and instead focusing on other things, then yes, I'd tell him exactly that. It may be common knowledge to you, but sadly it's not to all.

        Derek
        What exactly isn't common knowledge?

        You're saying you're telling a secret but that the secret is - there is no secret.

        You're not actually saying anything that isn't said 100 times a day here already.

        You've generalised things to the point where you think you've found a golden rule but you haven't - the reason people "don't understand" why it's as simple as you're saying is that it is not.

        It's actually NOT that simple - you can sell a LOT of stuff and be out of business.

        If you sell the wrong product - no amount of traffic will get you your goal.

        If you pay more for your traffic than you make selling to them - you lose.

        If you choose a niche where there just aren't enough buyers to sustain your business, no amount of traffic will be enough.

        If you choose a fad/trendy niche - you may get traffic temporarily but still go out of business.

        If you don't save/invest your income you can go out of business when a short period of lower sales ruins your cash flow.

        If you rely on search engines or other people's web properties/businesses for your traffic - it can disappear overnight.

        If you build your business selling other people's products and they change their business or remove their products - you can lose.

        Success - does NOT equal Traffic+Conversions.

        The devil is in the details and no amount of generalising to sound clever will fill in those gaps for people.
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek_Thomas
          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

          You're saying you're telling a secret but that the secret is - there is no secret.

          You're not actually saying anything that isn't said 100 times a day here already.

          You've generalised things to the point where you think you've found a golden rule but you haven't - the reason people "don't understand" why it's as simple as you're saying is that it is not.

          It's actually NOT that simple...
          You're right Andy. Thanks for clearing that up for us. You've been most helpful.

          Derek
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    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Is this really a 'secret'?

      It's like telling a business owner - "hey I have the secret to business success - sell things to people!"
      LOL! Well with some business owners, they might think it's been a secret to them! I think some forget what business is all about at times!
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    Originally Posted by Derek Thomas View Post

    ...traffic and conversion.

    And that's all you need to know.

    No magic. Just work hard at the basics.

    Fortunately for you, this Forum has great free resources on both. If you need more direction on where to start, just ask. But do look around for yourself first. Be proactive by digesting the information that's already been written.

    For me personally, there were two resources outside of this Forum that proved invaluable when I was first starting out.

    Ed Dale's Challenge

    ...and

    Paul Myer's Need To Know

    I have no affiliation with either, it's just high quality information worth sharing.

    So I'm not sure why you clicked to read this post.

    If it was because you really wanted to learn the "secret", I'm glad to be the one to disappoint you. The sooner you wake up and learn there is no secret, the better.

    If you were just curious as to what I'd say, well thanks for reading.

    Either way, good luck to all.

    Derek


    I think I use to think you cant teach an old dog new tricks, but I have been doing this whole IM thing for a while and I seem to learn stuff from paul myers all the time.

    I agree there is no real secret to all of this. Just have to put your head down and your bum up, that is the secret to making money.... real money online.
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  • Profile picture of the author hotboy18
    The truth is that there is no secret to making money online. You have to learn the long term methods or skills to achieve targeted traffic and sure conversions.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    When I hear the word "secret" applied to making money online I get skeptical very quickly. For one, I don't have a desire to build a sustainable business based upon a "secret". When the secret is out, where are you left?

    A lot of the big IM product launches today offer some "secret software", you know--just load it up, click your mouse 10 times, maybe only 5 times, maybe even 2-3 times and you have "guaranteed" traffic or sales coming in immediately. Apparently a lot of people buy into that stuff, but a little reality check might be in order.

    If the premise of those products is correct and such software actually generates torrents of cash by just clicking your mouse 3-4 times, then here's the way to make some real money--a "secret" way that can make you millions.

    Set up a "Click To Riches Arbitrage System". Your target market will be those who invest in the "click and get rich products". Since the buyers of these products are either too lazy or too gullible to do any real work to make money online, present them with this offer...

    Buy a copy of the latest "Get Rich By Clicking" super-secret, McNinja product and offer a service where you link a payment button to a client's account and offer to sit there clicking your mouse all day making them millions in the process. In essence you offer to become their proxy mouse clicker for a small fee.

    Take it to the next level by outsourcing the mouse clicking to a third party so that in essence you do nothing but engage in the simultaneous buying and selling of mouse clicking services with the spread in what you sell for and what you pay as your profit.

    Seriously, if the premise of these products (make millions with a few clicks of your mouse) is sound, you could make millions hourly with this mouse-clicking arbitrage secret technique.

    If for any reason the above "secret" system doesn't work for you, you could always go the old school route of doing some niche research, bringing in hungry buyers to your site, providing them with a product or service of high quality and creating a traffic funnel that builds a list and effectively converts visitors into buyers... but that does sound like work.

    Anyone every tried that technique and had any success with it? --Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author Jake Trainor
      Originally Posted by mikemcmillan View Post

      When I hear the word "secret" applied to making money online I get skeptical very quickly. For one, I don't have a desire to build a sustainable business based upon a "secret". When the secret is out, where are you left?
      Would you mind explaining your sig?
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by Jake Trainor View Post

        Would you mind explaining your sig?
        Ooh - bitchy
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      • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
        Originally Posted by Jake Trainor View Post

        Would you mind explaining your sig?
        Ha, I wondered if someone would nail me for that. Hypocritical? Could be. However, the sales page linked to the top blurb explains in detail exactly what people get. I'm not selling a blind person a pig and calling it a rooster like you find in many ads. I tell 'em what I've got and from the comments there you can see that they get exactly what I described, only much, much more.

        But yes, Jake, your point is valid and noted. If you want to PM me a valid email address I'll give you immediate access to my sig. stuff and then there won't be any "secrets" between us. --Mike
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        • Profile picture of the author Jake Trainor
          Mike, I guess that did come out bitchy. In your defense I did read your copy before posting and no where did it say you had some insider secret to where the magic money tree is. I understand where your post is coming from. I still had to bust your chops on it =].
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          • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
            Originally Posted by Jake Trainor View Post

            Mike, I guess that did come out bitchy. In your defense I did read your copy before posting and no where did it say you had some insider secret to where the magic money tree is. I understand where your post is coming from. I still had to bust your chops on it =].
            Ha, not bitchy Jake. Saw your comment, looked at my sig. file, and thought... OMG what have I done. Got a little laugh out of it. I need a good chops bustin' every once in a while anyway! --Mike
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek_Thomas
          Originally Posted by mikemcmillan View Post

          Ha, I wondered if someone would nail me for that. Hypocritical? Could be. However...
          I don't call it hypocritical. I call it marketing...especially considering you're truthful in the sales copy and have a legit and beneficial product.

          It seems much of the issue with my original post has been because of the use of that word. However when someone doesn't know something, it's a "secret" to them, right? It may not be a "secret" to all, but it's a "secret" to them.

          I would hope we could get past the use of the word "secret" and instead see the simple benefits that traffic and conversion have to offer.

          Derek
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          • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
            Originally Posted by Derek Thomas View Post

            I don't call it hypocritical. I call it marketing...especially considering you're truthful in the sales copy and have a legit and beneficial product.

            It seems much of the issue with my original post has been because of the use of that word. However when someone doesn't know something, it's a "secret" to them, right? It may not be a "secret" to all, but it's a "secret" to them.

            I would hope we could get past the use of the word "secret" and instead see the simple benefits that traffic and conversion have to offer.

            Derek
            Hey Derek,

            Michael's sig is hypocritical - he knows it and admitted it. It's not a problem - You don't need to make excuses for him.

            He layed out why he doesn't like seeing the word secret in sales copy - I happen to agree with him. That doesn't mean he's not going to use it

            As you know yourself - newbies are always looking out for secrets because they're always convinced people aren't telling them everything. It seems to be a natural thing in IM. There are so many BS artists around making false promises that many newbies honestly do think that people "keep the good stuff" to themselves and hold on to their "secrets".

            You see it here all the time, people blatently saying that they wouldn't tell others everything so they don't believe anyone else would, and therefore don't believe all the 'secrets' are out yet and go looking for them.

            You know the value of the word and that's why you used it in your title.

            Michael knows it too and that's why he uses it even though he doesn't like to see it.

            Let's not kid ourselves here.

            No-one is arguing that traffic and conversions aren't important or shouldn't be a central consideration for online marketers.

            Your use of the word secret is what has pushed a few buttons.

            No-one thinks that trying to condense down some strategies into an easy to conceive idea or mantra is useless. Like you say - many people get lost in the details and forget simple stuff and run about building blogs and websites and forget to even track their traffic and monitor their conversions. Of course those metrics are important.

            So why have people given you resistance to such a simple, obviously logical, and well-established idea? Because when people start with "I'm going to share THE SECRET" - it's always loaded by vertue of the fact that there is no THE secret, and there are really no SECRETs. So anyone saying there is - is obviously pushing some perspective of their own rather than uncovering some hidden truth (all the reasons Mike doesn't like to read it), and the word THE means they're not going to be open to any alternatives because they think they've nailed everything down into their one version of the truth.

            Whenever anyone says they have THE answer to anything so generic as business or success - it usually is a sign that they're either selling something or they have a big ego and want to 'enlighten' the masses to their truth.

            It's usually easy to find out which with a little prodding - which is what I was doing.

            It's not personal and it's not to argue that the idea you're sharing is not of value - it's literally to try and get to why you're pushing it.

            I guess for me it's like when people of particular religions turn up at my door and tell me they KNOW what God wants etc... I KNOW that THEY don't know, so there's a big difference between saying "this is my opinion and here's why I think it" and "I KNOW THE TRUTH".

            So when someone posts THE SECRET - that's how it comes across to me, and hence I feel the need to try and protect myself and others here by getting to why the person has decided to stand up and claim they have the secret truth about something, and when it's also just one common-sense part of IM that's been said thousands of times before, that just makes it seem all the more in need of prodding.

            So I can see that up to know you're trying to appear open-minded while wanting to ignore the idea that anything which is positioned as contrary to your message be reframed to fit in it so that we all end up back in agreement that your 'truth' applies to us all.

            Therefore I'll just say that - if you want that as your truth, hey it's not logical for anyone to argue with that. So I will just reserve the right to have my own truths which may or may not be different.

            I have no reason to try and create an 'alternative' truth - because I am not trying to find one and coming up with one is not a mission of mine.

            I'll take away that you're probably a good guy just struggling with some things and wanting to help others clear the fog a little with a well-intentioned generalisation and leave it at that.

            Good luck with your business.

            Andy
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        • Profile picture of the author steven sanderson
          The secret is, there is no secret, just simple hard work, listening, and sticking to one thing at a time and do not be tempted by all the white noise out there, the big myth secret is one of the fundemental things which hold people back, once you understand the perception of peoples inner wants and needs and what makes us all tick then youve cracked it, we all need to know, we all get greedy, and we all love success, remember, he who takes a fall no and again will gain strength from it, so always see the stumbles as a source of fuel, find the answer, and fight back, it took us a long time to understand this market and make money online, but once the clouds started to clear it was plane sailing
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          • Profile picture of the author steven sanderson
            I agree that anyone who portrays that there is some big secret is simply pushing some perspective of there own
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  • Profile picture of the author greenowl123
    Traffic is important, no doubt, but all traffic is not created equal. I have youtube videos that get tons of traffic but do not make even 2 bucks a month. Mostly kids who do not have money anyway. Targeted traffic is much more important and when you can get that, in numbers, you are on your way. Build that list too !
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    You want to bring in as much traffic as possible to what ever you are selling but at the same time you need to bring in targeted traffic.

    So if you bring in 100 visitors to your link for example and you get 1-3 sales, you know that you need to bring 500 to make 5-15 sales.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shazia Mirza
    We are so fortunate to know someone like Paul Meyer aren't we?

    I just opted in for his "Need To Know" manual.
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  • Profile picture of the author Moneyerr
    Derek, you are really right. Traffic and the conversions are the only things which are the basics of IM.

    There are so many methods to gain traffic which may be good contents of your site, backlinks to High PR relevant sites, Articles, directory submissions etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author makerd
    Thanks a lot! This helped me to understand few basic things..
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  • Profile picture of the author harryhumph
    Thats pretty much it, traffic and conversion.. if you can master those two skills, you will definitely be successful!

    Also, another thing is to TAKE ACTION!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Amen to that. Three cheers for Frank.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vendor-Lock
    I think Derek said it best in the first post....

    " Work Hard "

    : )
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  • Profile picture of the author mixlarryd
    Heh.
    Maybe it's not the secret, but hell yeah I totally agree - it's the most important thing in Internet Marketing - to get the higest trafic. The faster, the better!

    But how? Nobody knows the easiest way. Ther's no miracle. Work hard - and benefit from your work
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  • Profile picture of the author ephame
    I think it is as simple as the OP has mentioned, Traffic then convert. Just like a lot of things in life people think it's harder or more complex then it probably is.

    Maybe some are embarrassed about not taking action now because they see it is this simple? Who knows.

    I hadn't thought it down to this simple but when you see it like this i do agree, Traffic ---> Convert ... enough said.

    Thanks Derek
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom E
    I'm reading Paul Myer's book right now, on your recommendation. Great book, thanks mucho!
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek_Thomas
      Originally Posted by gr8tocre8 View Post

      I'm reading Paul Myer's book right now, on your recommendation. Great book, thanks mucho!
      You're very welcome.

      My only advice... re-read it after your done. In fact, re-read it on a regular basic.

      Best of luck,
      Derek
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  • Profile picture of the author Jkhurramov
    Product+Traffic=Sales
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek_Thomas
    Andy,

    I'm not making excuses for Mike. He's a big boy and can take care of himself. Again, I'm sharing my opinions on his use of the word in that particular context. However I've not heard much "opinion" from you. It's been "fact" and "this is the way it is" from the beginning, which is strikingly similar to what you say you're problem with my post has been. I find that interesting to say the least, almost as if you're the one knocking on my door if you know what I'm saying.

    So I guess since you have me all figured out now (which is amazing I must say) we can part ways as comrades and continue the philosophy discussion another time.

    Best,
    Derek
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Derek Thomas View Post

      Andy,

      I'm not making excuses for Mike. He's a big boy and can take care of himself. Again, I'm sharing my opinions on his use of the word in that particular context. However I've not heard much "opinion" from you. It's been "fact" and "this is the way it is" from the beginning, which is strikingly similar to what you say you're problem with my post has been. I find that interesting to say the least, almost as if you're the one knocking on my door if you know what I'm saying.

      So I guess since you have me all figured out now (which is amazing I must say) we can part ways as comrades and continue the philosophy discussion another time.

      Best,
      Derek
      Oh hello - are we still on this merry-go-round?

      Tell you what, just so that you can sleep well tonight I'll say that you're completely right and I'm a hypocritical idiot.

      Ok?

      Well done. I feel terrible now for questioning your mantra.
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      • Profile picture of the author Derek_Thomas
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        Oh hello - are we still on this merry-go-round?

        Tell you what, just so that you can sleep well tonight I'll say that you're completely right and I'm a hypocritical idiot.

        Ok?

        Well done. I feel terrible now for questioning your mantra.
        No, I just deleted my last post by mistake instead of editing it, which is why I'm assuming you're commenting now.

        I was planning on adding a clarifying thought I had about my initial comments of traffic and conversion being essential.

        Regardless...I thought you already jumped off a few posts back?

        Don't be so sensitive.

        Derek
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        • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
          Originally Posted by Derek Thomas View Post

          No, I just deleted my last post by mistake instead of editing it, which is why I'm assuming you're commenting now.

          I was planning on adding a clarifying thought I had about my initial comments of traffic and conversion being essential.

          Regardless...I thought you already jumped off a few posts back?

          Don't be so sensitive.

          Derek
          Yeah - I'm the sensitive one, what can I say - I'm in touch with my femanine side.
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          • Profile picture of the author Derek_Thomas
            Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

            Yeah - I'm the sensitive one, what can I say - I'm in touch with my femanine side.
            Maybe that's why you've been so argumentative too.

            Im just saying...

            Either way, wish you the best. Thanks for contributing to the discussion. Best of luck in your business. Let me know if I can ever do anything for you.

            Derek
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            • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
              Originally Posted by Derek Thomas View Post

              Maybe that's why you've been so argumentative too.

              Im just saying...

              Derek
              Nope - that was just because I like to make people have a proper look at why they say/think what they do.
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              • Profile picture of the author Derek_Thomas
                Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

                Nope - that was just because I like to make people have a proper look at why they say/think what they do.
                Yep, your way is the proper way.

                Thanks for sharing.

                Bye Andy.

                Derek
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                • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
                  Originally Posted by Derek Thomas View Post

                  Yep, your way is the proper way.

                  Thanks for sharing.

                  Bye Andy.

                  Derek
                  Dude - your ego is clouding your vision. 'I' don't have A WAY.....

                  That's the whole point.

                  It's not a your way against my way thing.....

                  I know that from your perspective since YOU have a way that probably won't make sense, but the whole point of me prodding your assumptions is to highlight that there really is not 'one way' of doing things right.

                  So while you're searching for and maybe even think you've found 'the way', my position is not that my way is better - but that thinking there is 'the way' at all is flawed.

                  Since you seem to have gone into troll mode I'll leave it at that.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Derek_Thomas
                    Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

                    Dude - your ego is clouding your vision. 'I' don't have A WAY.....

                    That's the whole point.

                    It's not a your way against my way thing.....

                    I know that from your perspective since YOU have a way that probably won't make sense, but the whole point of me prodding your assumptions is to highlight that there really is not 'one way' of doing things right.

                    So while you're searching for and maybe even think you've found 'the way', my position is not that my way is better - but that thinking there is 'the way' at all is flawed.

                    Since you seem to have gone into troll mode I'll leave it at that.



                    I'm not trolling you Andy, just responding to your comment...

                    I like to make people have a proper look at why they say/think what they do
                    So do I actually. But when I try and do it you interpret it differently than when you try and do it.

                    Either way, I understood your comment as you saying your way is "proper" and mine therefore "improper". So yes, it did seem a "your way" vs. "my way" thing.

                    To be clear though, I'm not advocating any method here (or "way" if you will), just the simple fact that you need traffic and you need conversions to make money online (note the fact this has been about making money, not necessarily running a successful business). I'm not trying to say that is "my way", but I do have a hard time calling it "a way". Is it a "secret"? Not to you, no. Has it been said before? Of course. Does everyone "get it"? Sadly, no.

                    I've got no dog in this fight. No method. Nothing to sell. Nothing to gain or lose really. I just see these fundamentals (in spite of them having been said numerous times before) still being ignored or forgotten by some marketers. Perhaps though these fundamentals where not something they really grasped before though..."common sense" or not...and for that reason I shared this "secret" and pointed out two quality, free resources for additional training.

                    It's not "my" way. I just don't see any other way than traffic + conversions.

                    I value your experience and your knowledge of these issues. What I don't get though is the need to "prod" me or "expose" me or "protect others" or whatever you're motive it. That's been the confusing thing for me from the very beginning. You seemed to take a superior tone from the get-go, and then accused me of the one being egotistical which I found very strange. I don't want to argue with you though, nor do I feel the need to defend myself to you. I just want a conversion that creates value and hopefully helps some folks. I don't want to convince you of anything, but I don't mind "convincing" others of the importance of traffic and conversion.

                    I feel this has turned into one big distraction though, and would much prefer to move on from here in different tone and fashion. Remove "me" and "you" from the equation, ignore any unproductive posts shared between the two of us, and instead focus more on the "secret" I shared. That will be my intention from this point forward.

                    I'd be more than happy if you were to continue contributing. Otherwise, my best wishes still stand.

                    Derek

                    PS - If that sounds reasonable, you never did answer my question about your definition of conversion.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Banks
    You definitely have to work hard and test your own methods, but you also should learn the fundamentals and then test those as well!
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  • Profile picture of the author HappyHourInfo
    Hard work and focus applied through the effective methods you acquire having learnt the fundamentals of IM. That'll bring the traffic and that'll bring the conversions.

    How to go about doing this?

    Well....
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  • Profile picture of the author J R Salem
    This thread turned humorous, but getting back to the origianl topic, this is correct IMO.

    Offering a service? You need traffic and conversions (clients who buy)

    Posting a wso? Need traffic and conversions.

    Selling a product on your minsite? Need traffic and conversions.

    Dealing with business owners in offline market? Need traffic and conversions.

    Ahhhh, but the secret is HOW to get traffic and conversions. Becoming an expert, figuring out seo, establishing relationships, hard work, etc.

    THAT is the actual secret....obtaining traffic and conversions.
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  • Profile picture of the author langm120
    How many secrets are there? I am not trying to be funny but isn't that what every marketer is saying. PSST, wanna buy a secret?

    Mike Lang
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek_Thomas
      Originally Posted by langm120 View Post

      How many secrets are there? I am not trying to be funny but isn't that what every marketer is saying. PSST, wanna buy a secret?

      Mike Lang
      I'm using the term in a very relative sense. It's a "secret" to as many people as don't yet know it.

      Get targeted traffic. Maximize conversion.

      Do this, and you will make money online.

      Derek
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      • Profile picture of the author mounds
        Coming from an IM newbie, this is extremely useful advice. It's so useful that I think I'm going to Stickie it onto my monitor as a constant reminder.

        People, including me, have a tendency to shroud things in mystery. The reality is that there are usually a few base principles. They're simple but extremely important. Miss out on any one of them and you've pretty much got nothing.

        Thanks for this reminder!
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek_Thomas
          Originally Posted by mounds View Post

          Coming from an IM newbie, this is extremely useful advice. It's so useful that I think I'm going to Stickie it onto my monitor as a constant reminder.

          People, including me, have a tendency to shroud things in mystery. The reality is that there are usually a few base principles. They're simple but extremely important. Miss out on any one of them and you've pretty much got nothing.

          Thanks for this reminder!
          You're very welcome. I do hope it helps.

          Keep in mind, there are many different methods to achieve traffic and conversion. But a "method" in and of itself can set you up for failure if you don't understand it's end-goal.

          Best of luck,
          Derek
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          • Profile picture of the author mounds
            Originally Posted by Derek Thomas View Post

            You're very welcome. I do hope it helps.

            Keep in mind, there are many different methods to achieve traffic and conversion. But a "method" in and of itself can set you up for failure if you don't understand it's end-goal.
            I've run into that a lot in personal development. I find a lot of parallels within IM and PD. Big principles, lots and lots of ways of getting there.

            I like to look at methods as if they're tools. The goal is something you want to someday build. It's surprisingly easy to collect lots of tools and never use them
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Barker
    Originally Posted by Derek Thomas View Post

    ...traffic and conversion.

    And that's all you need to know.

    No magic. Just work hard at the basics.

    Fortunately for you, this Forum has great free resources on both. If you need more direction on where to start, just ask. But do look around for yourself first. Be proactive by digesting the information that's already been written.

    For me personally, there were two resources outside of this Forum that proved invaluable when I was first starting out.

    Ed Dale's Challenge

    ...and

    Paul Myer's Need To Know

    I have no affiliation with either, it's just high quality information worth sharing.

    So I'm not sure why you clicked to read this post.

    If it was because you really wanted to learn the "secret", I'm glad to be the one to disappoint you. The sooner you wake up and learn there is no secret, the better.

    If you were just curious as to what I'd say, well thanks for reading.

    Either way, good luck to all.

    Derek
    You know Derek,

    I clicked on this post to let everyone know that there is no secret and you have beat me to it with your inital post! Lol!

    I can tell everyone that if there was a secret to making money online it is the service that an online marketer provides to interested leads. By pushing junk on people that they do not need just because you are wanting a quick buck will not hold up. Let your product be known and how yo can "help" someone else reach their dreams and goals.

    That is the only way and anything else will fall by the wayside!
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  • Profile picture of the author H.Miller
    The secret is hard work and consistency. Stop looking for the next get rich quick system and focus on a proven system. Don't give up so soon. Persistence beats resistance. So create a plan, follow that plan and you will be successful.
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    • Profile picture of the author Great Caxh Call
      Originally Posted by H.Miller View Post

      The secret is hard work and consistency. Stop looking for the next get rich quick system and focus on a proven system. Don't give up so soon. Persistence beats resistance. So create a plan, follow that plan and you will be successful.
      Agree with Derek and Miller.
      all about IM is Traffic and conversion, some knew this secret but fail to gain enough traffic and then they give up. For this, you should have hard work and consistency. don't give up yet, maybe by doing some more things, you will get the traffic and conversion rate which you want.
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  • Profile picture of the author davedonatello
    I think the secret is simply on the product itself. everyone here is here for the same reason, we all have a point in common. Some are succeeding more than others. I think traffic and conversion is the hoped result in any business on the planet. If we had a store, we would all want to have to traffic, not for people to browse around and skim through magazines, but to get conversion. Those who are successful in IM have identified the right product for the right market. I like to call it " the perfect middleman "
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert X
    Ok,,, so,,, what are the best "methods" to creating "traffic" and getting "conversions"?
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  • Profile picture of the author corsleymaxwell
    Definitely right Derek! ... That was my boss said also. Great post!
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  • Profile picture of the author dtcash7
    I know this is an old post, but I'd be interested in learning more about how to maximize conversions. Anyone got any tips or free resources to point me to?
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