104 replies
For some reason, this headline gets a massive open rate,

can anyone say "curiosity?"

Now if you opened this, you can clearly see that you were curious.

Go and use this on your list, (sparingly) you'll see a spike in open rates, promise.

This is used for relationship building with your prospects because it shows personality. When they open it, have something cool for them to download for free, your list will love you for this...

talk soon,

Derek J. Soto

______( <>..<> )_________________________________________________ ____________________________
Need an idea? ask me anything: 321-961-8732
WARRIORS get on my paid list free: http://dereksoto.com
#&lt&gt&lt&gt #<><>
  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

    you'll see a spike in open rates, promise.
    Apart from in the case of the ones that don't make it through spam filters, maybe, perhaps because there are no recognisable words in the subject-line, with the result that they never got as far as the in-box?

    When I occasionally look in my "spam"/"junk-mail" folder, I do sometimes find stuff with titles just like that from lists I've signed up to.

    I'd be very surprised indeed if I'm the only one, because (like many others) I just use "default settings" for that kind of stuff. :confused:

    As a marketer, I wouldn't want to use anything quite so "gimmicky" anyway, I think ...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3884914].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Derek,

      But surely it's a bad idea to go overboard trying to boost open rates in a manner that will negatively impact other details later on, such as conversions and unsubscribes?

      For example, if someone uses this as a 'headline' for a list of internet marketers, what message does it give regarding the marketing ability of the sender?
      Signature


      Roger Davis

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3884925].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
        If you have a good reputation with your ISP's you'll be fine, I've seen this go through, in fact, it just got into my inbox...

        but the real point is this, You opened the email, didn't you? Are you pissed at me or do you feel "tricked?"

        from my real world testing, no one has ever gotten pissed at me because of this subject line.

        Since there is no "false promise" or any promise for that subject line, it's all about curiosity and it's fun if your list already likes you. I've even used it to get my list to like me more, in fact my clients tell me they loved that subject line.

        Don't be afraid to be different and try new things.

        The subject lines that make people angry are the ones that give a false promise, such as "you made a sale" and when you open the e-mail it says, "this is what you would see if you were doing xxxxxx"

        ethical gimmicks like this one sell and anyone that thinks they are above gimmicks are also above profits.
        Signature

        Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3884942].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

          If you have a good reputation with your ISP's you'll be fine, I've seen this go through
          Surely that's automated, Derek, and depends mostly on the settings in people's email client software? :confused:
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3884951].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            Surely that's automated, Derek, and depends mostly on the settings in people's email client software? :confused:
            Alexa, your theory is sound, my experience suggests otherwise. No matter what kind of email you send, they won't all go through. If you are worried about this, it's better for you not to even try it. It worked for me in various niches so I thought I'd share it here.
            Signature

            Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3884961].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author ExRat
              Hi Derek,

              Don't be afraid to be different


              I guess it depends on what type of subscribers you have.

              ethical gimmicks like this one sell and anyone that thinks they are above gimmicks are also above profits.
              So it doesn't just increase open rates, it sells too?

              For me personally, it tells me that you're so focussed on selling with that email that you have sacrificed any consideration of the reason that the subscriber is on the list - IE - the value that they are expecting.

              It worked for me in various niches
              Ah, I see. I was presuming that you were recommending this for lists that have marketers as subscribers. Were you?
              Signature


              Roger Davis

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3884981].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author jasonthewebmaster
          Banned
          This could work well selling to the "alien conspiracy" market! LOL
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3890513].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
            Originally Posted by omk View Post

            LOL, well at least your open rate was on fire for this post!
            Getting the user to open up your e-mail is already half the battle.

            If I got an e-mail with junk characters like that, I would not open it up. It would
            set alarm bells off in my head.
            But I'm sure there are a lot of people that would.
            Yes sir, a lot of people do open it up, there are a few people who won't but who cares, you can't win em all and I'm always searching for fun headlines just to entertain myself more than anything, hey, this business has to be fun right...

            Originally Posted by jasonthewebmaster View Post

            This could work well selling to the "alien conspiracy" market! LOL
            I've tested it in that market, and the ( . )( . ) still worked better for some strange reason :-( j/k )
            Signature

            Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3890679].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

    For some reason, this headline gets a massive open rate,

    ExRat made an intelligent comment and point.

    I'm curious if you have used this on your email list(s). Can you provide
    some details? Have you done this more than once? Are your markets
    non-IM/MMO?

    It would definitely seem that repeating this subject line approach may
    result in diminishing returns.


    Ken
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3884945].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

      ExRat made an intelligent comment and point.

      I'm curious if you have used this on your email list(s). Can you provide
      some details? Have you done this more than once? Are your markets
      non-IM/MMO?

      It would definitely seem that repeating this subject line approach may
      result in diminishing returns.


      Ken
      Ken, make sure to use this SPARINGLY!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Just like anything, you can't use the same thing over and over again, but using something like this once in a great while works awesome!
      Signature

      Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3884955].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Yep. I opened this post out of curiosity and wasn't dissapointed with the message. So aside from the issues of this getting through spam filters and all, I expect if you were to use this type of email headline you'd really need a great offer to offset the "I've been tricked" reaction people are likely to experience.

    Wait, isn't that what it's always about? A great offer loaded with value. Not sure I'd actually do this but it's something to think about.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885018].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

      Hi Derek,



      I guess it depends on what type of subscribers you have.

      So it doesn't just increase open rates, it sells too?

      For me personally, it tells me that you're so focussed on selling with that email that you have sacrificed any consideration of the reason that the subscriber is on the list - IE - the value that they are expecting.





      Ah, I see. I was presuming that you were recommending this for lists that have marketers as subscribers. Were you?


      HOW DID YOU GET 'SELLING' FROM THIS HEADLINE!!!!!!???????

      Interesting indeed....


      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      Yep. I opened this post out of curiosity and wasn't dissapointed with the message. So aside from the issues of this getting through spam filters and all, I expect if you were to use this type of email headline you'd really need a great offer to offset the "I've been tricked" reaction people are likely to experience.

      Wait, isn't that what it's always about? A great offer loaded with value. Not sure I'd actually do this but it's something to think about.

      I usually don't offer a product when using this headline, I instead usually just give away something cool and valuable for free, this headline is used more for building a relationship with your list...
      Signature

      Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885046].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        HOW DID YOU GET 'SELLING' FROM THIS HEADLINE!!!!!!???????
        From here Derek.

        Derek Soto - ethical gimmicks like this one sell
        Signature

        Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885083].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
    Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

    For some reason, this headline gets a massive open rate,

    can anyone say "curiosity?"

    Now if you opened this, you can clearly see that you were curious.

    Go and use this on your list, you'll see a spike in open rates, promise.

    talk soon,

    Derek J. Soto

    321-961-8732
    Open rates are not even half of the story.

    What REALLY matters is your sales conversion rate from
    the e-mail (or any other media for that matter).

    I've had e-mails with high open rates, but poor sales
    conversion rates and vice versa.

    Using curiosity in the subject line is a good strategy BUT
    it needs to tie-in with the content and offer within the
    body copy otherwise you risk it back-firing.

    Dedicated to mutual success,

    Shaun
    Signature

    .

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885051].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

      Open rates are not even half of the story.

      What REALLY matters is your sales conversion rate from
      the e-mail (or any other media for that matter).

      I've had e-mails with high open rates, but poor sales
      conversion rates and vice versa.

      Using curiosity in the subject line is a good strategy BUT
      it needs to tie-in with the content and offer within the
      body copy otherwise you risk it back-firing.

      Dedicated to mutual success,

      Shaun
      Shaun, this headline is used to for relationship building for your list. There is usually no offer attached to this, just some cool free stuff they can download.

      And open rates are massively important because without them, clickthroughs don't exist.
      Signature

      Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885068].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        Shaun, this headline is used to for relationship building for your list. There is usually no offer attached to this, just some cool free stuff they can download.
        And exactly how does a subject line with gobbledegook
        help build the relationship with your list???

        I focus on building the relationship with my list by finding
        out what they want, and helping them to get it.

        I also use clear communication so they see that I deliver
        on my promises.
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        And open rates are massively important because without them, clickthroughs don't exist.
        I've had low open rates with high sales conversion rates
        and I've had high open rates with low sales conversion
        rates.

        It's like the old newspaper ad trick of using a headline
        with just the word 'Sex' on it and then going on to
        describe something completely unrelated.

        The subject line is a delicate tool for affecting open
        rates, click-through rates and sales. If you abuse it
        with meaningless characters it will soon grow old.

        If you've got any split-test results that show that the
        unusual characters subject line beats a different
        approach *with the same mailing at the same time* -
        then that would be interesting.

        Dedicated to mutual success,

        Shaun
        Signature

        .

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885129].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
          Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

          And exactly how does a subject line with gobbledegook
          help build the relationship with your list???

          I focus on building the relationship with my list by finding
          out what they want, and helping them to get it.

          I also use clear communication so they see that I deliver
          on my promises.

          I've had low open rates with high sales conversion rates
          and I've had high open rates with low sales conversion
          rates.

          It's like the old newspaper ad trick of using a headline
          with just the word 'Sex' on it and then going on to
          describe something completely unrelated.

          The subject line is a delicate tool for affecting open
          rates, click-through rates and sales. If you abuse it
          with meaningless characters it will soon grow old.

          If you've got any split-test results that show that the
          unusual characters subject line beats a different
          approach *with the same mailing at the same time* -
          then that would be interesting.

          Dedicated to mutual success,

          Shaun
          Interesting the emotions in some of these responses. I think people may be under the impression that these are the only kind of subject lines I use.

          I use this SPARINGLY.

          I want to make something clear. IF THIS UPSETS YOU, PLEASE DON'T USE THESE TYPES OF HEADLINES.

          However, if you are willing to "try different things" then it can't hurt to test it, can it?

          TESTING IS WHAT THIS GAME IS ALL ABOUT MY FRIENDS,

          If you want to be average, do what everyone else is doing...

          if you want to be great, you need to be different and in order to do that, you need to experiment and test.

          AGAIN, IF THIS METHOD OFFENDS YOU, PLEASE JUST DON'T USE IT, FOR THOSE WHO LIKE TO TEST, THIS MIGHT BE AN INTERESTING ONE FOR YOU.
          Signature

          Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885177].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
            Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

            However, if you are willing to "try different things" then it can't hurt to test it, can it?

            TESTING IS WHAT THIS GAME IS ALL ABOUT MY FRIENDS,

            If you want to be average, do what everyone else is doing...

            if you want to be great, you need to be different and in order to do that, you need to experiment and test.
            I'm a testing advocate too.

            So, what - specifically - are your split-test figures for using
            the unusual character subject line versus another one
            - in the same mailing?

            Let your testing RESULTS prove the effect of the approach -
            not just opinion.

            Dedicated to mutual success,

            Shaun
            Signature

            .

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885213].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              I'm not much of an email marketer. I'm on a few lists and only a very few. They never resort to tricks to get me to open. It isn't necessary. Their message is always worth reading. They've developed a relationship with their list ... with me. If they don't send out an email in awhile, I wonder where it is. I would be highly surprised and disappointed if I received an email from them that simply said ( <>..<> ). I expect more than that and they deliver more than that.
              My lists would obviously not be a right fit for you and that's OK, different strokes for different folks.

              Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

              I'm a testing advocate too.

              So, what - specifically - are your split-test figures for using
              the unusual character subject line versus another one
              - in the same mailing?

              Let your testing RESULTS prove the effect of the approach -
              not just opinion.

              Dedicated to mutual success,

              Shaun
              Shaun in one test, the email the day before said, "Bad News"

              The day after I used: ( <>..<> ) and had over 70 more opens.

              Now there are a lot of factors, but I do something like this maybe once every two months and each time I try something like this it gives me a spike, I also see a slight increase in clickthrough, simply because of more people opening the emails.

              Because the people that always open my emails open this one too, they are not offended by my subject lines because they know that my content is solid.

              Simply look at my past threads on here, I believe I deliver massive value and for free!

              So they are conditioned to know that I provide killer value and they could care less what my headline says.

              What this does is capture the attention of some of my subscribers that don't usually read my emails and when they see the massive free value in the email, they are like, "Hmm, I'm going to start reading his emails.

              I know this because after I do this, I see a slight increase in average open rates. but the key is that the content in the email has to be super good and free.

              Gimmicks are great, think of two car dealerships, one has nothing except cars outside. The other has balloons ( which have nothing to do with cars and are very misleading! ) However I PROMISE you that the dealership with all the "gimmicky" stuff outside sells more.

              So while this type of thing might piss people off, I really couldn't care less if I lose a few cynical people with no sense of humor, I really don't want people like that as my customers anyway. But remember, you can't please anyone and as you can see, I don't care what kind of heat I get for this, because it helps my numbers.

              It's interesting sometimes when you try to share a "results driven" bit of knowledge and you get flogged for it. But that's OK, because I've learned to roll with it and eventually when these people that are hating on me try it, they will be like, "That Derek is a clever batch of cookies..."
              Signature

              Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885269].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
                Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

                Shaun in one test, the email the day before said, "Bad News"

                The day after I used: ( <>..<> ) and had over 70 more opens.
                In other words, you haven't actually split-tested your
                unusual special character subject line versus another
                subject line in the same mailing - thus providing results
                to lead to an accurate conclusion.

                Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

                Now there are a lot of factors, but I do something like this maybe once every two months and each time I try something like this it gives me a spike, I also see a slight increase in clickthrough, simply because of more people opening the emails.

                Because the people that always open my emails open this one too, they are not offended by my subject lines because they know that my content is solid.

                Simply look at my past threads on here, I believe I deliver massive value and for free!

                So they are conditioned to know that I provide killer value and they could care less what my headline says.

                What this does is capture the attention of some of my subscribers that don't usually read my emails and when they see the massive free value in the email, they are like, "Hmm, I'm going to start reading his emails.

                I know this because after I do this, I see a slight increase in average open rates. but the key is that the content in the email has to be super good and free.

                Gimmicks are great, think of two car dealerships, one has nothing except cars outside. The other has balloons ( which have nothing to do with cars and are very misleading! ) However I PROMISE you that the dealership with all the "gimmicky" stuff outside sells more.

                So while this type of thing might piss people off, I really couldn't care less if I lose a few cynical people with no sense of humor, I really don't want people like that as my customers anyway. But remember, you can't please anyone and as you can see, I don't care what kind of heat I get for this, because it helps my numbers.

                It's interesting sometimes when you try to share a "results driven" bit of knowledge and you get flogged for it. But that's OK, because I've learned to roll with it and eventually when these people that are hating on me try it, they will be like, "That Derek is a clever batch of cookies..."
                As a marketer I'm all for differentiating myself and my
                offers.

                I also think it's a good thing to test different approaches
                - even wild left-of-field ones - to see what effect they
                have. In fact, it's a great way to discover breakthroughs.

                And it's good to generate some response where people like
                you (and even have some haters) as that's better than
                playing it safe and being in no mans land with the mediocre.

                However, if you're going to TEST, then at least test your
                approaches scientifically so that you can draw accurate
                conclusions and provide solid proof that a particular approach
                works.

                For what it's worth, I continutally split-test squeeze pages,
                sales pages, etc and also split-test the autoresponder
                follow-up series and subject lines continually.

                But I do it scientifically to ensure accurate conclusions.

                Dedicated to mutual success,

                Shaun
                Signature

                .

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885319].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
                  Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

                  In other words, you haven't actually split-tested your
                  unusual special character subject line versus another
                  subject line in the same mailing - thus providing results
                  to lead to an accurate conclusion.


                  As a marketer I'm all for differentiating myself and my
                  offers.

                  I also think it's a good thing to test different approaches
                  - even wild left-of-field ones - to see what effect they
                  have. In fact, it's a great way to discover breakthroughs.

                  And it's good to generate some response where people like
                  you (and even have some haters) as that's better than
                  playing it safe and being in no mans land with the mediocre.

                  However, if you're going to TEST, then at least test your
                  approaches scientifically so that you can draw accurate
                  conclusions and provide solid proof that a particular approach
                  works.

                  For what it's worth, I continutally split-test squeeze pages,
                  sales pages, etc and also split-test the autoresponder
                  follow-up series and subject lines continually.

                  But I do it scientifically to ensure accurate conclusions.

                  Dedicated to mutual success,

                  Shaun
                  Shaun, I appreciate you, however I've been doing e-mail marketing for over 5 years, you've admitted that you've never done email marketing for yourself. I've been doing this headline testing for the entire time...

                  There are more than one way to know the results of something, my findings are sound.

                  Case and point, look how fast this post rose in views!!!!!!!!!!

                  Would you not agree that how well this post is doing is an indication of it's headlines effectiveness?

                  It's got a great test for people to try, a lot of views and a lot of comments in a short period of time...
                  Signature

                  Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885339].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
                    Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

                    Shaun, I appreciate you, however I've been doing e-mail marketing for over 5 years, you've admitted that you've never done email marketing for yourself. I've been doing this headline testing for the entire time...
                    I don't know where you got the idea that I haven't done
                    e-mail marketing for myself from as that's 100% incorrect.
                    Where did I supposedly say that?

                    I've actually been e-mail marketing for myself since November
                    2003 (at that time with 1ShoppingCart).

                    Since 2005 I've also been responsible for managing the e-mail
                    marketing campaigns for my offline clients around the world and
                    I'm accountable to them - for results.

                    That's why I test ruthlessly and more importantly - scientifically
                    and accurately.

                    Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

                    There are more than one way to know the results of something, my findings are sound.
                    If you have not done a test on the same mailing at
                    the same time with one subject line versus the unusual
                    character one, then your results are not sound - that's
                    the point.
                    Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

                    Case and point, look how fast this post rose in views!!!!!!!!!!

                    Would you not agree that how well this post is doing is an indication of it's headlines effectiveness?

                    It's got a great test for people to try, a lot of views and a lot of comments in a short period of time...
                    The thread has got attention because it had a very unusual
                    subject line that stood out. And a lot of people have chipped
                    in because of the controversial nature of the topic.

                    That's all very well and good.

                    You could achieve a similar thing using a thread title of
                    R.I.P. [Insert Top Warrior Name]. That would get lots
                    of views and comments too.

                    Open rates and views are one thing. As a marketer, I'm
                    more interested in the effect of my approach on SALES
                    and track that too.

                    Dedicated to mutual success,

                    Shaun
                    Signature

                    .

                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885371].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
                      Originally Posted by Bradley J Anderson View Post

                      Actually, I've been ignoring it for the last few hours because of the title. It just happened to be one of the last unread threads on the first page, so I decided to finally open it and see what it was about.

                      Like someone said, to each his own, but I wouldn't use this sort of thing, myself. Well, maybe once if it tied in somehow to the content of the email. To use an example a couple of others suggested:

                      Subject Line: ( . Y . )

                      Content: Enlarge your boobies now!
                      thank you for your contribution to this post. The thread is a test that some will try, some won't, again, to each their own.

                      Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

                      I don't know where you got the idea that I haven't done
                      e-mail marketing for myself from as that's 100% incorrect.

                      I actually been e-mail marketing for myself since November
                      2003 (at that time with 1ShoppingCart).

                      Since 2005 I've also been responsible for managing the e-mail
                      marketing campaigns for my offline clients around the world and
                      I'm accountable to them for results.

                      That's why I test ruthlessly and more importantly - scientifically
                      and accurately.


                      If you have not done a test on the same mailing at
                      the same time with one subject line versus the unusual
                      character one, then your results are not sound - that's
                      the point.

                      Dedicated to mutual success,

                      Shaun
                      I love science, but we don't need it in this case, look at the OBVIOUS results of this thread alone!

                      Again, obvious proof that the headline works, period.
                      Signature

                      Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885409].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
                        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post


                        I love science, but we don't need it in this case, look at the OBVIOUS results of this thread alone!

                        Again, obvious proof that the headline works, period.
                        Just a side note...

                        I believe this forum counts views on a thread, not unique views. Most of the views are probably the same people opening the thread again and again, popcorn in hand, to see where the conversation is going.

                        In other words, it may not be the headline that's creating the views... it's more than likely the disagreement within.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885432].message }}
                    • Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

                      Open rates and views are one thing. As a marketer, I'm also interested in the effect of my approach on SALES.

                      Dedicated to mutual success,

                      Shaun
                      And that is the bottom line.

                      OP, I don't see how you can say this 'works awesome' when you have never used it. You said yourself it just came into your inbox. Just because you were curious enough to open it, doesn't necessarily mean other people would be. It sounds to me like your making assumptions based on your reaction to it. 10 different people have responded to your claim, and all but 1 have disagreed with your theory, and even he was on the fence about it.

                      And a thread's popularity doesn't usually have all that much to do with the title. Like everything else IM, it's the content that counts.
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885414].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                        Hi Derek,

                        I love science, but we don't need it in this case, look at the OBVIOUS results of this thread alone!

                        Again, obvious proof that the headline works, period.
                        I think you should make a WSO out of your system.
                        Signature


                        Roger Davis

                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885426].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
                        Originally Posted by Bradley J Anderson View Post

                        And that is the bottom line.

                        OP, I don't see how you can say this 'works awesome' when you have never used it. You said yourself it just came into your inbox. Just because you were curious enough to open it, doesn't necessarily mean other people would be. It sounds to me like your making assumptions based on your reaction to it.

                        And a thread's popularity doesn't usually have all that much to do with the title. Like everything else IM, it's the content that counts.
                        Bradley, I've used it for several years, but I appreciate your contribution.
                        Signature

                        Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885435].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
                          Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

                          Hi Derek,



                          I think you should make a WSO out of your system.
                          please keep your comments helpful to the theme of the post which is simply "e-mail headline testing" thanks exrat.

                          Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

                          Just a side note...

                          I believe this forum counts views on a thread, not unique views. Most of the views are probably the same people opening the thread again and again, popcorn in hand, to see where the conversation is going.

                          In other words, it may not be the headline that's creating the views... it's more than likely the disagreement within.
                          OK, please only respond with helpful things. It's not going to help to read people's posts and look for things to attack about it while completely ignoring the actual premise which is simply,

                          e-mail headline testing.

                          If you have something VALUEABLE to add, please feel free.
                          Signature

                          Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885459].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                            Hi Derek,

                            If you have something VALUEABLE to add, please feel free.
                            Likewise.

                            Signature


                            Roger Davis

                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885507].message }}
                            • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
                              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

                              Hi Derek,



                              Likewise.

                              Sharing a headline that helped boost open rates is actually pretty valuable, wouldn't you agree?

                              If this particular type of headline is not your style, that's OK, you don't need to do it, but I put this post here for those who are OK with trying it.
                              Signature

                              Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885530].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                            Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

                            OK, please only respond with helpful things. It's not going to help to read people's posts and look for things to attack about it while completely ignoring the actual premise which is simply,
                            Derek, this is a discussion forum, you will get different views on things.
                            Signature

                            Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885534].message }}
                            • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
                              Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                              Derek, it's a discussion forum, you will get alternate views on things.
                              I welcome alternative views where they are in an effort to help contribute to the premise of the thread and not simply to tear down the OP for simply sharing something he knew would be of interest to some people.

                              Like one person who posted that I could add text to it, that's a pretty helpful alternative view.
                              Signature

                              Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885543].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

                            please keep your comments helpful to the theme of the post which is simply "e-mail headline testing" thanks exrat.



                            OK, please only respond with helpful things. It's not going to help to read people's posts and look for things to attack about it while completely ignoring the actual premise which is simply,

                            e-mail headline testing.

                            If you have something VALUEABLE to add, please feel free.
                            You can start a thread but you don't get to dictate who answers or how they answer. You don't own the thread. In case you're unfamiliar with forum posting, disagreeing with someone isn't necessarily the same thing as attacking someone.

                            You don't get to determine what is a valuable response or not. Everyone gets to voice their opinions.
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3886083].message }}
                            • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
                              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                              You can start a thread but you don't get to dictate who answers or how they answer. You don't own the thread. In case you're unfamiliar with forum posting, disagreeing with someone isn't necessarily the same thing as attacking someone.

                              You don't get to determine what is a valuable response or not. Everyone gets to voice their opinions.

                              His comments read more like requests than attempts to dictate. That seems pretty
                              obvious.

                              Everyone makes their own minds up about what is valuable and what isn't. What they
                              do with those thoughts is up to them.


                              Ken
                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3886092].message }}
                              • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
                                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                You can start a thread but you don't get to dictate who answers or how they answer. You don't own the thread. In case you're unfamiliar with forum posting, disagreeing with someone isn't necessarily the same thing as attacking someone.

                                You don't get to determine what is a valuable response or not. Everyone gets to voice their opinions.
                                see Ken's comment below... also, what are some good subject lines that have worked for you in the past?

                                Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

                                His comments read more like requests than attempts to dictate. That seems pretty
                                obvious.

                                Everyone makes their own minds up about what is valuable and what isn't. What they
                                do with those thoughts is up to them.


                                Ken

                                I have to agree with you Ken, I am here to give value and get value and when people are focused on giving value, the thread is pleasant to read, when there is blatant cutting down without adding any real value, it pollutes the thread.

                                If anyone has any other subject lines that have worked well for them, I'd love to hear them!
                                Signature

                                Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3886192].message }}
                                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                  Banned
                                  Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

                                  see Ken's comment below... also, what are some good subject lines that have worked for you in the past?
                                  My customers signed up to be notified of when I have a new site for sale, so I use something really tricky like, VIP Notification: NBT New Site for Sale
                                  Sometimes I get real creative and use, like my last one: VIP Notification: Nothing to sell today. A buck to help save a Warrior's life. Open and click rate below.

                                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3889655].message }}
                                  • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
                                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                    My customers signed up to be notified of when I have a new site for sale, so I use something really tricky like, VIP Notification: NBT New Site for Sale
                                    Sometimes I get real creative and use, like my last one: VIP Notification: Nothing to sell today. A buck to help save a Warrior's life. Open and click rate below.

                                    I have to say, that's actually pretty good, I'm going to use that "VIP Notification: " I like that, good stuff!
                                    Signature

                                    Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

                                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3889720].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

      Open rates are not even half of the story.

      What REALLY matters is your sales conversion rate from
      the e-mail (or any other media for that matter).

      I've had e-mails with high open rates, but poor sales
      conversion rates and vice versa.

      Using curiosity in the subject line is a good strategy BUT
      it needs to tie-in with the content and offer within the
      body copy otherwise you risk it back-firing.

      Dedicated to mutual success,

      Shaun
      I disagree.

      Conversion rate is just another number like open rate. What really matters is the BOTTOM LINE. It's very possible to make more money with a lower conversion rate simply because the profit margin was higher.

      Conversion rates and open rates are only metrics used to increase profits, which is the ultimate goal.
      Signature
      Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
      Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885542].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        I disagree.

        Conversion rate is just another number like open rate. What really matters is the BOTTOM LINE. It's very possible to make more money with a lower conversion rate simply because the profit margin was higher.

        Conversion rates and open rates are only metrics used to increase profits, which is the ultimate goal.
        I totally agree with you Kurt, however in my original post you'll see that this was used for relationship building stuff where I actually gave away massive value in the email.

        And keep in mind that I rarely use this, as it would be ridiculous to use it often or for some people it would be ridiculous to use it at all, it really depends on the personality that your people know you for.

        Most people are "serious" and that's OK, I like to try new things and be a little bit off the wall and that's OK too.
        Signature

        Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885554].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        I disagree.

        Conversion rate is just another number like open rate. What really matters is the BOTTOM LINE. It's very possible to make more money with a lower conversion rate simply because the profit margin was higher.

        Conversion rates and open rates are only metrics used to increase profits, which is the ultimate goal.
        For a given split-test via e-mail, I'll only change one thing
        at a time, e.g. the subject line, the opening paragraph,
        the offer, etc.

        For a valid test of the subject line - only the subject line
        varies - the body copy and the offer remains the same.

        Dedicated to mutual success,

        Shaun
        Signature

        .

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885586].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
          Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

          For a given split-test via e-mail, I'll only change one thing
          at a time, e.g. the subject line, the opening paragraph,
          the offer, etc.

          For a valid test of the subject line - only the subject line
          varies - the body copy and the offer remains the same.

          Dedicated to mutual success,

          Shaun
          Shaun, I have to agree with you here, a split test where half of the email went to half of the list and the other half went to the other half of the list.

          How I've measured it is not as scientific but the effect is great enough for me to notice it every time I try it in certain niches. There are a couple niches I tried it in that didn't work so well, but then there are some where the results where so noticeable, the benefit was obvious. But yes, If I want EXACT numbers, what you are saying will certainly help.
          Signature

          Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885617].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

          For a given split-test via e-mail, I'll only change one thing
          at a time, e.g. the subject line, the opening paragraph,
          the offer, etc.

          For a valid test of the subject line - only the subject line
          varies - the body copy and the offer remains the same.

          Dedicated to mutual success,

          Shaun
          Yep, but that isn't what your original post said, as we weren't talking about split testing. In the context of that post the info given was factually incorrect.

          But we can carry on in this direction...Even in this case we'd need to define "conversion rate". Is it for all emails sent or email opened?

          For example, ( <>..<> ) gets twice the open rate of the other variable, but converts at a slightly lower than the other choice, it's very possible that a lower conversion rate still means a higher bottom line profit. Again, we have to define "conversion rate" before making any conclusions.

          And in business, the bottom line is the bottom line.
          Signature
          Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
          Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885679].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            Yep, but that isn't what your original post said, as we weren't talking about split testing. In the context of that post the info given was factually incorrect.

            But we can carry on in this direction...Even in this case we'd need to define "conversion rate". Is it for all emails sent or email opened?

            For example, ( <>..<> ) gets twice the open rate of the other variable, but converts at a slightly lower than the other choice, it's very possible that a lower conversion rate still means a higher bottom line profit. Again, we have to define "conversion rate" before making any conclusions.

            And in business, the bottom line is the bottom line.
            I agree, this email subject line, I've never used it for "selling" I've only used it for "relationship building" because of the type of relationship I have with my list, they love this type of thing, however this may not be in line with your personality.

            Think of it like this, you send your buddy emails all the time that have text, but today you decide to send him the face ( <>..<> ) He'll probably laugh to himself and be like, what the heck is he doing, I don't think he's going to get pissed at you. Well, obviously I could have worded my post better, but I have a relationship with my list.

            I use this headline to give away free stuff and get my list to know, like and trust me by giving them good things.

            Since I am not selling anything, there is no immediate ROI for this, however, I suppose we could configure a way to track how this converts "down the line"
            Signature

            Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885700].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

          For a given split-test via e-mail, I'll only change one thing
          at a time, e.g. the subject line, the opening paragraph,
          the offer, etc.

          For a valid test of the subject line - only the subject line
          varies - the body copy and the offer remains the same.

          Dedicated to mutual success,

          Shaun
          Yep...But this is irrelevant to my earlier points about conversion rates.
          Signature
          Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
          Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3887796].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
            Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

            Re: Notification of Payment

            KIDDING! LOL I unsub from any moron stupid enough to use that one. Why would you listen to or buy anything that kind of idjit offers?

            Generally speaking, anything that inspires curiosity without being too vague gets more opens. A lot depends on how well your subscribers know you and your personality. If you kind of "train" them to expect you to be quirky, then humor is a great way to get more opens. If you're all business, then to avoid boring them and having lower open rates, be provocative or a bit controversial in your subjects.

            Just don't stray too far off the topic or you'll get angry subscribers and unsubs. Maybe not if you do it every once in a while and you have a strong relationship with them, but I don't think it's worth the risk at all just for a one-off increase in opens. Temporary gain and long-term loss, if you ask me. Just my untested opinion, though... take it as such.
            good point about one-off increase in opens, I use this sparingly which if anyone here is going to try this, keep that in mind!

            Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

            Ill be honest, the title of this thread got my attention.

            Not through curiosity, but moreso with suspicion of malicious activity or spamming in the forum.

            There's enough garbarge in the world of IM to promote silly tactics like this.
            Yes, I agree, this is a silly tactic, as advertisers it's getting increasingly harder and harder to get our emails noticed, I don't think it hurts to try silly tactics,

            think of the example I gave with the balloons, I've seen so many dealerships use them, they wouldn't use them unless they work.

            Originally Posted by ankur420420 View Post

            Hi

            Frankly speaking, this got my attention and will get marvellous open rates

            But,I think the chances of this going to spam are somewhat more

            But if this reaches the inbox, then it will surely be opened

            thanks
            Ankur
            For some reason, this gets through spam filters for now, maybe in the future it won't, that is when I'll stop using it.

            Originally Posted by Mike McAleer View Post

            Hmm....I wonder why!

            What does this look like?
            this is an alien face that one of my buddies texted me a long time ago, and I thought it was neat.

            Originally Posted by DamenRabat View Post

            LOL, same here. I also thought "What?!" Has a spammer made it here ?
            I think that people that thought this was spam, but HAD to open it so they could see what the heck it was and then saw that it had really good content in it, would be pleasantly surprised.

            Originally Posted by dagaul101 View Post

            The odd alien eyes always brings curiousity
            Yes, they do.

            Originally Posted by chickenlittle View Post

            Inspiring curiosity. Great way to make them open the email, agreed.

            But then you need to come up with a creative email that is *related* in some way to the subject line.

            Otherwise people just feel tricked.
            I think that if you were to buy a phone that you thought only had one good feature but when you brought it home it has ten, you'd be pleasantly surprised. It's OK to be tricked, when you thought you were getting less, but you actually got way more! But again, I don't think this is tricking people because there is no promise. Zeus mentioned the headline "Notification of payment received" THAT is a trick! But with a graphic, which is what I'm using, there really is no promise in it, it's just interesting and different, which gets people's attention.

            Originally Posted by drmani View Post

            So much TALK!!!

            I just queued up a split test broadcast to one of my
            email sub-lists - because I thought this was such an
            intriguing idea.

            Jay Abraham drilled this into my head - "The only risk
            you ever have to take in business is an INEXPENSIVE TEST"

            So I did one.

            Will share the results soon.

            The 2 SUBJECT lines were:

            = = =

            #1 - ( <>..<> )

            #2 - (Firstname), I simply HAD to...

            = = =

            Here's what went into the message:



            Should be interesting how this works.

            As you noticed, there are TWO product pitches
            in the email, so a good metric to compare may
            be how many sales come of each headline - as
            well as how many complaints/unsubs.

            All success
            Dr.Mani

            P.S. - Update: VERY preliminary (20 minutes) early results:

            3.2% CTR for - ( <>..<> )

            0.0% CTR for - (Firstname), I simply HAD to...


            .
            As long as the content is great, you're not going to get many unsubs. People don't usually make unsub decisions from headlines, they make it from what's in the email.

            If I sent you an email that says: 4+4=?

            and you open it and it says, ...8 free premium wordpress plugins that I've paid for and I'm going to give them to you free because I believe if you try them, you'll love them and would want the full paid versions later on down the line...

            you can spin this any number of ways, but what's in the email is super important.
            Signature

            Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3888324].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author drmani
              Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

              As long as the content is great, you're not going to get many unsubs. People don't usually make unsub decisions from headlines, they make it from what's in the email.
              Really?

              Test it long enough, and you'll be AMAZED at the kind of things
              that lead to an 'unsub decision'.

              Incidentally, here's an update on my test:

              3.2% CTR for - ( <>..<> )

              5.4% CTR for - (Firstname), I simply HAD to...

              No sales (yet!) from either.

              All success
              Dr.Mani
              Signature
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3889021].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I opened it because I thought the porn spammer was at it again and was going to report it. I don't like misleading headlines and wouldn't have opened it in my email.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885063].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author harryhumph
    While it does increase open rates, it definitely got my curiosity. BUT there is NO way it is getting through the spam filters!

    if it did, It would get overused and too saturated!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885078].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      I opened it because I thought the porn spammer was at it again and was going to report it. I don't like misleading headlines and wouldn't have opened it in my email.
      it's interesting that you say that this is misleading, "what promise did the headline give you?" You have to be made some kind of promise in order to be mislead.

      Originally Posted by harryhumph View Post

      While it does increase open rates, it definitely got my curiosity. BUT there is NO way it is getting through the spam filters!

      if it did, It would get overused and too saturated!
      When you actually test this like I have, then report back :-)
      Signature

      Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885105].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        it's interesting that you say that this is misleading, "what promise did the headline give you?" You have to be made some kind of promise in order to be mislead.
        No promise and no reason that I can see for you to be in my inbox. I would consider an email that came into my box with that heading to be junk. Spam. Crap and would delete it promptly after hitting the spam button.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885161].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          No promise and no reason that I can see for you to be in my inbox. I would consider an email that came into my box with that heading to be junk. Spam. Crap and would delete it promptly after hitting the spam button.
          Thats OK, what's great about email is that we can open the emails we want and delete the ones we don't. However, people that are on my list ALWAYS get great value in the e-mail, regardless of what subject line I 'test'. They know this and they love me for it. But you can't win em all and I wish you the best in all of your marketing.
          Signature

          Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885185].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

            Thats OK, what's great about email is that we can open the emails we want and delete the ones we don't. However, people that are on my list ALWAYS get great value in the e-mail, regardless of what subject line I 'test'. They know this and they love me for it. But you can't win em all and I wish you the best in all of your marketing.
            I'm not much of an email marketer. I'm on a few lists and only a very few. They never resort to tricks to get me to open. It isn't necessary. Their message is always worth reading. They've developed a relationship with their list ... with me. If they don't send out an email in awhile, I wonder where it is. I would be highly surprised and disappointed if I received an email from them that simply said ( <>..<> ). I expect more than that and they deliver more than that.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885210].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    I was curious about this and spam filters. So I just conducted a
    very little test. I sent an email from my ISP account which is Comcast
    to one of my gmail accounts which is set to foward to my Comcast
    email. Just a circle.

    I put ( <<..>> ) in the headline and wrote something short in the
    email body.

    It made it through both. My gmail filters a lot of spam on a daily basis,
    however I do not have anything in place for my Comcast account. I
    didn't expect it to go through gmail but not really surprised about the
    Comcast acct.


    Ken
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885118].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author havplenty
    Whilst it made me click, I think you'd have to work damn hard at keeping the reader engaged.

    Clearly people avoid these like the plague:

    1. buy viagra
    2. make $200,000 in 6 hours...

    And all the other now spam-hall-of-fame enshrined subject lines. But people, no matter what the "experts" say will still open your emails if you appeal directly to their needs/wants. The fact that people don't open subject line #2 doesn't mean they don't want to make money; it just means they are tired of the BS promises.

    I suppose our job as marketers is give people what they "still want", without using the hackneyed and downright ineffective email tactics. If were to pitch an email to the make money niche, I would go for something like this:

    Tough Economy - No Problem!

    or this...

    Paid All The Bills Early This Month?

    or some other similar money-problem themed subject line.



    When it comes to getting it right, it helps to look at how others do it. I always make a note of the people who get me to open their emails. People like Michael Senoff are very good at this; other people like Chia, Filsaime are not so good.

    At any rate, good luck!

    Hav
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885120].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

      I was curious about this and spam filters. So I just conducted a
      very little test. I sent an email from my ISP account which is Comcast
      to one of my gmail accounts which is set to foward to my Comcast
      email. Just a circle.

      I put ( <<..>> ) in the headline and wrote something short in the
      email body.

      It made it through both. My gmail filters a lot of spam on a daily basis,
      however I do not have anything in place for my Comcast account. I
      didn't expect it to go through gmail but not really surprised about the
      Comcast acct.


      Ken
      interesting results. I've found that the length of the body copy and what words you use in the body copy to be a more major factor for spam filtering than the actual headline because I get weird headlines go through my gmail all the time.

      it's all about testing.

      Originally Posted by havplenty View Post

      Whilst it made me click, I think you'd have to work damn hard at keeping the reader engaged.

      Clearly people avoid these like the plague:

      1. buy viagra
      2. make $200,000 in 6 hours...

      And all the other now spam-hall-of-fame enshrined subject lines. But people, no matter what the "experts" say will still open your emails if you appeal directly to their needs/wants. The fact that people don't open subject line #2 doesn't mean they don't want to make money; it just means they are tired of the BS promises.

      I suppose our job as marketers is give people what they "still want", without using the hackneyed and downright ineffective email tactics. If were to pitch an email to the make money niche, I would go for something like this:

      Tough Economy - No Problem!

      or this...

      Paid All The Bills Early This Month?

      or some other similar money-problem themed subject line.



      When it comes to getting it right, it helps to look at how others do it. I always make a note of the people who get me to open their emails. People like Michael Senoff are very good at this; other people like Chia, Filsaime are not so good.

      At any rate, good luck!

      Hav
      What I've learned in posting this is that people are taking this personal. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing this, It has increased open rates and as a result, click through rates. I don't use it all the time, but here is what is going to seperate people who make money and people who don't.

      The people that are willing to "try" new things and different things will be ahead of the pack. You say Mike Filsaime isn't that good, Do you have any clue what that man makes per year?

      thank you for your contribution to this thread, very interesting the emotions I'm seeing here.
      Signature

      Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885154].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author havplenty
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post


        The people that are willing to "try" new things and different things will be ahead of the pack. You say Mike Filsaime isn't that good, Do you have any clue what that man makes per year?

        thank you for your contribution to this thread, very interesting the emotions I'm seeing here.
        Derek,

        You completely misunderstand me. I am not pouring cold water on your idea, far from it. I am just merely highlighting a few potential shortcomings with the approach. You said it yourself, it's all about testing. Surely, then, working on the "engagement" side of things once you get the click is important. If anything, the feedback on this thread should be taken as "intelligence", not an affront.

        As for Filsaime; I know he makes a lot of money each year. He just doesn't make any money off me. And that's partly because I don't open his emails. It's common knowledge that the big names in IM have abandoned "relationship building" for "list blasting". Sure, they still make money, but mainly from suckers. Would I like to make the money Filsaime makes? Yes Please! But I also want to know that when I sell "you" something, it has some value. Of course, value is such a nebulous thing, and what is valuable to you isn't valuable to me. But I am sure you get my point.

        So, for the record: I am not against "trying new things" and when I say good luck, I mean it.

        Good luck!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885304].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
          Originally Posted by havplenty View Post

          Derek,

          You completely misunderstand me. I am not pouring cold water on your idea, far from it. I am just merely highlighting a few potential shortcomings with the approach. You said it yourself, it's all about testing. Surely, then, working on the "engagement" side of things once you get the click is important. If anything, the feedback on this thread should be taken as "intelligence", not an affront.

          As for Filsaime; I know he makes a lot of money each year. He just doesn't make any money off me. And that's partly because I don't open his emails. It's common knowledge that the big names in IM have abandoned "relationship building" for "list blasting". Sure, they still make money, but mainly from suckers. Would I like to make the money Filsaime makes? Yes Please! But I also want to know that when I sell "you" something, it has some value. Of course, value is such a nebulous thing, and what is valuable to you isn't valuable to me. But I am sure you get my point.

          So, for the record: I am not against "trying new things" and when I say good luck, I mean it.

          Good luck!
          thank you sir
          Signature

          Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885311].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Derek,

    Not surprising about the reactions you'll get in here. But anyway...

    Here is something you could test, and that's combining symbols
    with some words. Shaun made a good point about the need for the
    subject line to have continuity and relevance to the email copy.

    I've never built a list, yet, but I'm about to very soon. However, as
    a copywriter I've created emails for some very well known online
    marketers/businessmen. And they performed well.

    What I was just thinking is you could use something like this for the
    subject line...

    Put your ( <>..<> ) on this...

    I only thought of that because they look like a pair of eyes. lol. Of
    course the anatomical symbols could be appropriate if you have a list
    in an adult market.

    Another thing that comes to mind is your market. Obviously, some
    audiences will be loose and not suffering so much from the 'twisted
    shorts' syndrome so often encountered in certain 'places.'

    Good rational points made, but I do agree there's rarely anything wrong
    with testing.


    Ken
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885221].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

      Derek,

      Not surprising about the reactions you'll get in here. But anyway...

      Here is something you could test, and that's combining symbols
      with some words. Shaun made a good point about the need for the
      subject line to have continuity and relevance to the email copy.

      I've never built a list, yet, but I'm about to very soon. However, as
      a copywriter I've created emails for some very well known online
      marketers/businessmen. And they performed well.

      What I was just thinking is you could use something like this for the
      subject line...

      Put your ( <>..<> ) on this...

      I only thought of that because they look like a pair of eyes. lol. Of
      course the anatomical symbols could be appropriate if you have a list
      in an adult market.

      Another thing that comes to mind is your market. Obviously, some
      audiences will be loose and not suffering so much from the 'twisted
      shorts' syndrome so often encountered in certain 'places.'

      Good rational points made, but I do agree there's rarely anything wrong
      with testing.


      Ken
      I agree with you Ken and YOUR post to my thread is by far the most "contributing" instead of "attacking" one we've seen here.

      REALLY GOOD IDEA, I'M GOING TO TEST THAT! I knew something good would come out of this and maybe this twist you put on it will help the emotional people open their minds and try something new, I really love your twist!
      Signature

      Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885284].message }}
  • Actually, I've been ignoring it for the last few hours because of the title. It just happened to be one of the last unread threads on the first page, so I decided to finally open it and see what it was about.

    Like someone said, to each his own, but I wouldn't use this sort of thing, myself. Well, maybe once if it tied in somehow to the content of the email. To use an example a couple of others suggested:

    Subject Line: ( . Y . )

    Content: Enlarge your boobies now!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885368].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author espe
    mm.. i dont know maybe it works depending the niche, I receive BUY!!!! >>>viagra now everyday to my spam box (mostly because people buy emails >.<)

    anyway i would never use that method, i find it easier to create a relevant title to what im offering..
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885506].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by espe View Post

      mm.. i dont know maybe it works depending the niche, I receive BUY!!!! >>>viagra now everyday to my spam box (mostly because people buy emails >.<)

      anyway i would never use it myself, i find it easier to create a relevant title to what im offering..
      Oddly enough, I've never gotten a spam email with a face before, it's usually just RE: or transfer of money or some other text. Check your spam box and let me know how many faces you see as subject lines...
      Signature

      Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885516].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    I also wonder if something like Derek suggested couldn't be used for branding?

    For example, if you are producing a quality ezine and include a title something like this:

    ( <>..<> ) Your Healthy Daily News is Here!

    If the characters were added every time, it could really help your email stand out to your readers...
    Signature
    Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
    Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885560].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I also wonder if something like Derek suggested couldn't be used for branding?

      For example, if you are producing a quality ezine and include a title something like this:

      ( <>..<> ) Your Healthy Daily News is Here!

      If the characters were added every time, it could really help your email stand out to your readers...
      Kurt, I agree, and what you propose may even fetch me a higher click through rate. I've only tested it by itself.

      I would imagine that it would still do it's job of curiosity without making people think it's scammy, great point.
      Signature

      Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885571].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I also wonder if something like Derek suggested couldn't be used for branding?

      For example, if you are producing a quality ezine and include a title something like this:

      ( <>..<> ) Your Healthy Daily News is Here!

      If the characters were added every time, it could really help your email stand out to your readers...
      I'm sure it could, but it may not need to be so long.

      I've received a few newsletters that used something similar with
      symbols all the time. Or, they used it for specific delivery days.

      It does help to make it immediately recognizable and stand out
      from the crowd.


      Ken
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885630].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
        Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

        I'm sure it could, but it may not need to be so long.

        I've received a few newsletters that used something similar with
        symbols all the time. Or, they used it for specific delivery days.

        It does help to make it immediately recognizable and stand out
        from the crowd.


        Ken
        Hmm, have you seen other things besides the "picture with symbols" approach that made you open, without being misleading? I'm very interested to try out some new stuff, as always.

        People's attention spans are so short these days it's getting tougher and tougher to get their attention, even with great text because a lot of people are using pretty compelling text, so it all kinda blends, one thing that I've tried and actually posted before was about using all caps in one of the words in your headline, such as:

        the BEST way to bowl is simply to...
        Signature

        Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885657].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author hovirag
      Actually I wasn't curious - I thought you don't know how to use these symbols.
      If I got an e-mail like that it would go straight into my bin without opening it.
      Also all e-mails the subject line of which starts with: "RE..."

      I don't think that if you have value to offer to your list you have to use all the "in fashion tricks" to make your list open your e-mails. Unfortunately most internet marketers offer crap.
      Signature
      Find Out How To Tap The Magical Power of Your Subconscious – On Demand! Get the A Bug Free Mind Starter Kit! for FREE that has a 92% success rate (according to published surveys) for helping people create more success in life.. Click on the link now==>
      To Optimize Your Wealth, First Optimize Your Mind Today!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3888574].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        I agree John, especially in a forum, but in e-mail, it's been proven to work for me over the last five years. If this is not your style, feel free to not use it.
        Derek, I may owe you an apology. I went back and re-read your original post, and I saw the part about using it within a list you had an existing relationship with. That didn't register the first ime through for some reason.

        In that context, I can see it working if used with discretion. I'll keep it in mind...

        In a forum, a blog comment, even a blind email, I still think it relies too much on the reader having a sense of humor. As always, though, the proof is in the pudding.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3888597].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
          Originally Posted by hovirag View Post

          Actually I wasn't curious - I thought you don't know how to use these symbols.
          If I got an e-mail like that it would go straight into my bin without opening it.
          Also all e-mails the subject line of which starts with: "RE..."

          I don't think that if you have value to offer to your list you have to use all the "in fashion tricks" to make your list open your e-mails. Unfortunately most internet marketers offer crap.
          You clearly don't undestand this post, try taking a few minutes to read the comments before you just jump in offering no value.

          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          Derek, I may owe you an apology. I went back and re-read your original post, and I saw the part about using it within a list you had an existing relationship with. That didn't register the first ime through for some reason.

          In that context, I can see it working if used with discretion. I'll keep it in mind...

          In a forum, a blog comment, even a blind email, I still think it relies too much on the reader having a sense of humor. As always, though, the proof is in the pudding.
          Yes, and I have built a relationship with my list so they love my sense of humor...
          Signature

          Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3888690].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Meharis
    Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

    Warning, some of you may get "emotional" over this but...

    For some reason, this headline gets a massive open rate,

    can anyone say "curiosity?"

    Now if you opened this, you can clearly see that you were curious.

    Go and use this on your list, (sparingly) you'll see a spike in open rates, promise.

    This is used for relationship building with your prospects because it shows personality. When they open it, have something cool for them to download for free, your list will love you for this...

    talk soon,

    Derek J. Soto

    ask me anything for free: 321-961-8732
    "Warning, some of you may get "emotional" over this but..."

    If that was your objective; you got it!!
    Theory is necessary but Facts have the last word.
    I go by "testing, testing and when I finished, I go and test more".
    Did (<>..<>) work for you? Yes? Good! Forget the rest...
    Meharis
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885786].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Lea Karana
    Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

    Warning, some of you may get "emotional" over this but...

    For some reason, this headline gets a massive open rate,

    can anyone say "curiosity?"

    Now if you opened this, you can clearly see that you were curious.

    Go and use this on your list, (sparingly) you'll see a spike in open rates, promise.

    This is used for relationship building with your prospects because it shows personality. When they open it, have something cool for them to download for free, your list will love you for this...

    talk soon,

    Derek J. Soto

    ask me anything for free: 321-961-8732


    LOL... I cannot believe i fell for it
    You got me



    Lea
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885787].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author celente
    great info, but your thread title is a bit stupid, I mean really!!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885796].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by Meharis View Post

      "Warning, some of you may get "emotional" over this but..."

      If that was your objective; you got it!!
      Theory is necessary but Facts have the last word.
      I go by "testing, testing and when I finished, I go and test more".
      Did (<>..<>) work for you? Yes? Good! Forget the rest...
      Meharis
      I think the fact that I wrote that made you emotional, I have removed it from the post.

      Originally Posted by Lea Karana View Post

      LOL... I cannot believe i fell for it
      You got me



      Lea
      If this is offensive to you, you don't need to use it, I posted it because it worked or me and for the people who are here for ideas and not to tear others down, they will benefit from it.
      Signature

      Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885815].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by celente View Post

      great info, but your thread title is a bit stupid, I mean really!!
      Yes, but it's also kinda cute, unexpected and uses imagination :-) but best of all, used sparingly, it does what it was intended to do.

      There are better ways, but I thought I would share this test with everyone.
      Signature

      Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3885825].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    I am waaaay too lazy to read all of the responses on this thread, but I will say that using the <00>__<00> or whatever it was as a subject line should only be done by those that have a gluten for punishment. There are way too many consequences, including a massive exodus of people clicking that remove link.

    If you need to revert to using tricks to get people to open your emails, then you should consider brushing up on your headline writing skills.

    JMHO
    Signature

    Founder of JVZoo. All around good guy :)

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3886517].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    I prefer this...

    ( * )Y( * )

    I'd open that one 100% of the time.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3886544].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      I prefer this...

      ( * )Y( * )

      I'd open that one 100% of the time.
      So... you're a warm prospect?

      Would you convert?

      Would you be a repeat customer?




      Ken
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3886564].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
        Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

        I am waaaay too lazy to read all of the responses on this thread, but I will say that using the <00>__<00> or whatever it was as a subject line should only be done by those that have a gluten for punishment. There are way too many consequences, including a massive exodus of people clicking that remove link.

        If you need to revert to using tricks to get people to open your emails, then you should consider brushing up on your headline writing skills.

        JMHO
        in the sea of text headlines that are well written, using this sparingly with a list that already likes you, gets noticed and is part of my personality. If this is not your style, feel free to not use it. It's worked for me.

        Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

        I prefer this...

        ( * )Y( * )

        I'd open that one 100% of the time.
        dag yo! yea, if you are running a porn site.

        Hey Zeus, care to share any winning headlines that worked for you?

        Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

        So... you're a warm prospect?

        Would you convert?

        Would you be a repeat customer?




        Ken
        ...repeat for sure...

        Ken, is there one headline you use that you could share that really works well for you?
        Signature

        Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3886625].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
          Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

          Hey Zeus, care to share any winning headlines that worked for you?
          Re: Notification of Payment

          KIDDING! LOL I unsub from any moron stupid enough to use that one. Why would you listen to or buy anything that kind of idjit offers?

          Generally speaking, anything that inspires curiosity without being too vague gets more opens. A lot depends on how well your subscribers know you and your personality. If you kind of "train" them to expect you to be quirky, then humor is a great way to get more opens. If you're all business, then to avoid boring them and having lower open rates, be provocative or a bit controversial in your subjects.

          Just don't stray too far off the topic or you'll get angry subscribers and unsubs. Maybe not if you do it every once in a while and you have a strong relationship with them, but I don't think it's worth the risk at all just for a one-off increase in opens. Temporary gain and long-term loss, if you ask me. Just my untested opinion, though... take it as such.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3886655].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Ill be honest, the title of this thread got my attention.

    Not through curiosity, but moreso with suspicion of malicious activity or spamming in the forum.

    There's enough garbarge in the world of IM to promote silly tactics like this.
    Signature

    BS free SEO services, training and advice - SEO Point

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3886683].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mike McAleer
    Hmm....I wonder why!

    What does this look like?
    Signature

    Recent domain flips : $8->$1000 Social recruiting Software dot com $8->$2000 MobileSalesSoftware.com
    Invest in domains without the hard work !
    Email for details...Mike McAleer at me dot com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3886925].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    The odd alien eyes always brings curiousity
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3887353].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Ruka
    Inspiring curiosity. Great way to make them open the email, agreed.

    But then you need to come up with a creative email that is *related* in some way to the subject line.

    Otherwise people just feel tricked.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3887466].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author drmani
      So much TALK!!!

      I just queued up a split test broadcast to one of my
      email sub-lists - because I thought this was such an
      intriguing idea.

      Jay Abraham drilled this into my head - "The only risk
      you ever have to take in business is an INEXPENSIVE TEST"

      So I did one.

      Will share the results soon.

      The 2 SUBJECT lines were:

      = = =

      #1 - ( <>..<> )

      #2 - (Firstname), I simply HAD to...

      = = =

      Here's what went into the message:

      I simply HAD to test this for myself and see!

      There's an intriguing discussion on the Warrior Forum
      about email subject lines - and having done some very
      extensive tests myself over the years, I thought this
      was quite cool... and so I'm testing it.

      You see, email marketing is about getting people to
      open and read your messages.

      Stuff that makes more subscribers do so is good - but
      only if it doesn't annoy, turn-off, or irritate many
      of them to the point they won't trust you again.

      I once put together a collection of email headlines
      that worked very well for me over two years of testing
      - and it sold like hot-cakes.

      LINK HERE

      But none of them were "misleading" or "trick" headlines
      that failed to deliver on a promise.

      Yes, some were provocative, intriguing or tickled
      subscribers' curiosity.

      And they set up an expectation about something which
      (hopefully) the message content delivered.

      Which is why they WORKED.

      And will work for YOU.

      This email itself is testing one such idea. To see
      the discussion that sparked off this test, go here:

      ( <>..<> )

      I'll share the results of my small test in another
      email soon

      All success
      Dr.Mani

      P.S. - The 'Hot Email Headlines' collection is a
      really valuable set of SUBJECT lines that work in
      email marketing. See if you can use them:

      LINK HERE

      P.P.S. - You may still qualify for the $30 rebate
      on "WP Instant Pay" if you hurry over to

      LINK HERE


      .
      Should be interesting how this works.

      As you noticed, there are TWO product pitches
      in the email, so a good metric to compare may
      be how many sales come of each headline - as
      well as how many complaints/unsubs.

      All success
      Dr.Mani

      P.S. - Update: VERY preliminary (20 minutes) early results:

      3.2% CTR for - ( <>..<> )

      0.0% CTR for - (Firstname), I simply HAD to...


      .
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3887554].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

    For some reason, this headline gets a massive open rate,

    can anyone say "curiosity?"

    Now if you opened this, you can clearly see that you were curious.

    Go and use this on your list, (sparingly) you'll see a spike in open rates, promise.

    This is used for relationship building with your prospects because it shows personality. When they open it, have something cool for them to download for free, your list will love you for this...

    talk soon,

    Derek J. Soto
    Derek, in my case, it wasn't pure curiosity. I saw the headline, and without even looking to see who it belonged to, I clicked in anticipation of blasting a forum spammer.

    Just a warning to anyone who wants to try this - you may get curiosity, but it may not be the kind you want...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3888461].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
      Interesting thread Derek, while this isn't something I'd use personally I do think a lot of marketers need to think outside the box and be more creative.

      There's a book called Outrageous Advertising by Bill Glazer which discusses many strategies to stand out from the crowd.
      Signature
      'If you hear a voice within you say "you cannot paint," then by all means paint and that voice will be silenced.' Vincent Van Gogh.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3888531].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        Derek, in my case, it wasn't pure curiosity. I saw the headline, and without even looking to see who it belonged to, I clicked in anticipation of blasting a forum spammer.

        Just a warning to anyone who wants to try this - you may get curiosity, but it may not be the kind you want...
        I agree John, especially in a forum, but in e-mail, it's been proven to work for me over the last five years. If this is not your style, feel free to not use it.

        Originally Posted by oneplusone View Post

        Interesting thread Derek, while this isn't something I'd use personally I do think a lot of marketers need to think outside the box and be more creative.

        There's a book called Outrageous Advertising by Bill Glazer which discusses many strategies to stand out from the crowd.
        Great contribution to this thread! I'll check out that book, as you can tell, I'm all about thinking outside of the box, while still using tried and true methods most of the time.

        If anyone has any other headlines that work well, I'd be interested in hearing them...
        Signature

        Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3888556].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Alfred Shelver
    I like this thread, it is somewhat different to the norm.... plus the negative and postive comments on this can be learned from. What I liked about Dereks attitude is that it was not an absoolute statement of fact that this will work, he was giving an idea to help us think outside the Box.

    Dr Mani you are my hero I like how you add such sense into any post you make LOL .... I wish you had tested it with ( . Y . ) as your heading LOL
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3889185].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by drmani View Post

      Really?

      Test it long enough, and you'll be AMAZED at the kind of things
      that lead to an 'unsub decision'.

      Incidentally, here's an update on my test:

      3.2% CTR for - ( <>..<> )

      5.4% CTR for - (Firstname), I simply HAD to...

      No sales (yet!) from either.

      All success
      Dr.Mani
      Dr. Mani, this headline was for rapport building, not selling. I also have a relationship with my list where they are used to this sort of thing being done sparingly, it's who I am and my personality. Thank you for your in-depth analysis on your list. It would appear that this headline is not right for you and your specific list.

      Originally Posted by Cathy Shelver View Post

      I like this thread, it is somewhat different to the norm.... plus the negative and postive comments on this can be learned from. What I liked about Dereks attitude is that it was not an absoolute statement of fact that this will work, he was giving an idea to help us think outside the Box.

      Dr Mani you are my hero I like how you add such sense into any post you make LOL .... I wish you had tested it with ( . Y . ) as your heading LOL
      Yes, the results may be interesting indeed...
      Signature

      Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3889360].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author drmani
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        Dr. Mani, this headline was for rapport building, not selling. I also have a relationship with my list where they are used to this sort of thing being done sparingly, it's who I am and my personality. Thank you for your in-depth analysis on your list. It would appear that this headline is not right for you and your specific list.
        Update again:

        3.2% CTR for - ( <>..<> )

        6.5% CTR for - (Firstname), I simply HAD to...

        I didn't track 'open' rates for this one, because like Kurt,
        I rely more on 'bottom line' metrics to measure effectiveness
        rather than 'steps along the process'.

        btw, the CTR metrics aren't hot either, as my list typically
        ranges between 9% and 27% in click-through rates, depending
        on how closely targeted the message is.

        My conclusion, from what is (at best) a pseudo-scientific
        test, is that this cryptic headline probably isn't a great
        fit for my list, even though it is unique - and in any case,
        it probably isn't harmful as I haven't got any complaints,
        unsubscribes, or other negative feedback until now.

        My advise to anyone following this discussion:

        Instead of going by opinion on issues like this one, run a
        similar "inexpensive test" on your own list - and decide
        whether or not to keep using the technique again.

        Do this many times in many different ways, and over a
        year you'll have a far better sense of what works for YOUR
        list than you do today

        All success
        Dr.Mani
        Signature
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3891153].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
          Originally Posted by drmani View Post

          Update again:

          3.2% CTR for - ( <>..<> )

          6.5% CTR for - (Firstname), I simply HAD to...

          I didn't track 'open' rates for this one, because like Kurt,
          I rely more on 'bottom line' metrics to measure effectiveness
          rather than 'steps along the process'.

          btw, the CTR metrics aren't hot either, as my list typically
          ranges between 9% and 27% in click-through rates, depending
          on how closely targeted the message is.

          My conclusion, from what is (at best) a pseudo-scientific
          test, is that this cryptic headline probably isn't a great
          fit for my list, even though it is unique - and in any case,
          it probably isn't harmful as I haven't got any complaints,
          unsubscribes, or other negative feedback until now.

          My advise to anyone following this discussion:

          Instead of going by opinion on issues like this one, run a
          similar "inexpensive test" on your own list - and decide
          whether or not to keep using the technique again.

          Do this many times in many different ways, and over a
          year you'll have a far better sense of what works for YOUR
          list than you do today

          All success
          Dr.Mani
          Dr. Mani, great post! I like your stuff, it's definitely educational for sure.
          Signature

          Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3891217].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kirk Ward
    I saw that it already had 89 posts. That was what got me curious, not the headline. I've seen too much cutesy stuff for that to impress me.

    However, I will test it. My readers may be more curious than I am about ascii graphics.
    Signature
    "We are not here to sell a parcel of boilers and vats, but the potentiality of growing rich beyond the dreams of avarice."

    Dr. Samuel Johnson (Presiding at the sale of Thrales brewery, London, 1781)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3889839].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by Kirk Ward View Post

      I saw that it already had 89 posts. That was what got me curious, not the headline. I've seen too much cutesy stuff for that to impress me.

      However, I will test it. My readers may be more curious than I am about ascii graphics.
      Well, you call yourself, an old, ugly coot so...

      Sure thing, let me know how it works out for you, no disrespect on the line above, I just saw it in your description and thought it was funny :-)
      Signature

      Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3889874].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kirk Ward
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        Well, you call yourself, an old, ugly coot so...

        Sure thing, let me know how it works out for you, no disrespect on the line above, I just saw it in your description and thought it was funny :-)
        No disrespect taken. I just repeat what Dearly Beloved says about me every day.

        Sigh.
        Signature
        "We are not here to sell a parcel of boilers and vats, but the potentiality of growing rich beyond the dreams of avarice."

        Dr. Samuel Johnson (Presiding at the sale of Thrales brewery, London, 1781)
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3889911].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
          Originally Posted by Kirk Ward View Post

          No disrespect taken. I just repeat what Dearly Beloved says about me every day.

          Sigh.
          LOL! So do you have any killer email headlines that you wouldn't mind sharing here? I'd like to try some new ones that I know have already performed for other people like yourself.
          Signature

          Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3889995].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Kirk Ward
            Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

            LOL! So do you have any killer email headlines that you wouldn't mind sharing here? I'd like to try some new ones that I know have already performed for other people like yourself.
            Avoid anything that doesn't give clear information. Be factual.

            Thing's like "It's going to end in X hours" go straight to spam folder, and if they keep coming, get a spam rule set for them.

            That's the only thing I can think of.
            Signature
            "We are not here to sell a parcel of boilers and vats, but the potentiality of growing rich beyond the dreams of avarice."

            Dr. Samuel Johnson (Presiding at the sale of Thrales brewery, London, 1781)
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3890038].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
              Originally Posted by Kirk Ward View Post

              Avoid anything that doesn't give clear information. Be factual.

              Thing's like "It's going to end in X hours" go straight to spam folder, and if they keep coming, get a spam rule set for them.

              That's the only thing I can think of.
              OK, that's actually some great advice, I'll avoid that line of phrasing like the plague! It's interesting the spam rules and how non of us really can find out exactly what they are, I guess they don't release them so that the spammers can take advantage of that. I don't know.
              Signature

              Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3890079].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kirk Ward
    The spam rules I was talking about are in my own email client. I've gotten to the point that rather than piddle with unsubscribing, I just send the email to my spam folder based on a rule. It could be the sender's name, their email address, a unique word in the message or subject line. (Messages with Viagra, Cialis and offers to be come a "Love Professional" go there automatically.)
    Signature
    "We are not here to sell a parcel of boilers and vats, but the potentiality of growing rich beyond the dreams of avarice."

    Dr. Samuel Johnson (Presiding at the sale of Thrales brewery, London, 1781)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3890107].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by Kirk Ward View Post

      The spam rules I was talking about are in my own email client. I've gotten to the point that rather than piddle with unsubscribing, I just send the email to my spam folder based on a rule. It could be the sender's name, their email address, a unique word in the message or subject line. (Messages with Viagra, Cialis and offers to be come a "Love Professional" go there automatically.)
      Oh OK, I understand now, so ISP aren't doing this themselves, but rather giving their account holders the option to do so, ok, this changes the way I look at this. Thanks for clearing it up!
      Signature

      Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3890156].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author omk
    LOL, well at least your open rate was on fire for this post!
    Getting the user to open up your e-mail is already half the battle.

    If I got an e-mail with junk characters like that, I would not open it up. It would
    set alarm bells off in my head.
    But I'm sure there are a lot of people that would.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3890506].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Joey89
    I have to admit you know how to capture attention lol. It seems like you have to think out of the box and be creative.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3891330].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by Joey89 View Post

      I have to admit you know how to capture attention lol. It seems like you have to think out of the box and be creative.
      Yes, there are hits and misses, but being creative my man, is fun! Let me ask you, are there any headlines that you've used that really got you a good bump in your open rates? :confused:
      Signature

      Discover How to Create a Brand New $300 Income Stream Every Single Day! Click Here Before Sold Out <--------------------

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3891576].message }}

Trending Topics