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Seriously? This PISSES me off!

by Derek Soto
51 replies
I can't believe what I'm seeing and I'm saying to myself seriously? This Pisses me off! ( People failing miserably, when the answer is right under their nose but they REFUSE to accept it because it wasn't the answer they wanted...

You see, there is a disease that is crippling many marketers.

It's human to want our goals to happen at light speed, we don't have much patience...

If you want to make dollars, these are some of the things that are stopping you, right now, DEAD in your tracks and without direction, so here we go:

1.) looking at too many products to buy, instead of applying what you know, just compare the numbers of people viewing the "offers" as opposed to this part of the forum.

2. ) wasting the little money you have on these products

3. ) coming here, not to learn but to tear others down. If you are here you should be REQUIRED to create valuable threads that will help the community, not troll the threads for victims to your frustration because you aren't making any money.

4.) I've NEVER seen anyone who is REALLY making money, spend all their time on a forum, cutting others down. Yesterday I networked with someone on here because I had my number in my post. We are working on some deals and that is what you all should be doing too!

This place is to make connections so that you can make deals!

5.) Not having a direction written down. Do you know what your plan is?
What are the steps in your plan? Are they written down? If not, you ALREADY lost...

6.) Rich Schefren talks about how people spend their time on tasks, some people do a little of each task every day, but ultimately he says that the people who get the best ROI on their time are those who stick with ONE project until it's done! Are we really doing this? We should ask ourselves...

I have and I was embarrassed at the truth, I was spreading my efforts thin, are you making the same mistake I was?

7.) I just got an email from Keith Baxter, who you should totally check out, he was talking about going against the herd.

I've noticed that people get very ANGRY when you suggest something different than what they think they know. The FACT is that most people absolutely hate change because it makes them uncomfortable and scared.

You don't have to be scared, many people here teach great things, TESTING is crucial to IM, so please do this!

When you test, you can start to follow your numbers instead of what others tell you to do, you'll actually have direction and your numbers will lead you to the goals you have, but if you don't test, you're stagnant and will make a lot of unnecessary errors because of it

So to recap: If you will just choose something to do that you believe will work and you write down the steps you need to accomplish to complete these goals and you just plow through each task until it's done before you go to the next level, you will be driving yourself to success and you'll have more JUSTIFIABLE time to spend on here like I do because of the systems I have in place. You can have these too, but you have to pay to play!

I welcome all your thoughts, ideas, etc. How can this process be improved? How could I have explained it better? When teaching this, what are some things that you disagree with and what would you do instead?
#pisses
  • Profile picture of the author dvduval
    Oh yea, it is sad but true that a large percentage of the people fall into one of these categories:
    1. New person just browsing, but often not posting when it would be great if they would
    2. "Damaged goods" type person who has some tragic flaws that prevent them from moving forward in life
    3. Self serving individuals such as just wanting to put their sig link in front of people (some of this behavior is healthy, but some folks go too far)

    Group #2 is the worst, and you just need to be able to see those people for who they are and also realize that others do too, especially those whose opinion counts most. Group #2 scares group #1 away.
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by dvduval View Post

      Oh yea, it is sad but true that a large percentage of the people fall into one of these categories:
      1. New person just browsing, but often not posting when it would be great if they would
      2. "Damaged goods" type person who has some tragic flaws that prevent them from moving forward in life
      3. Self serving individuals such as just wanting to put their sig link in front of people (some of this behavior is healthy, but some folks go too far)

      Group #2 is the worst, and you just need to be able to see those people for who they are and also realize that others do too, especially those whose opinion counts most. Group #2 scares group #1 away.
      Yes, if you are not posting value, you should not post. and if you have value and are not posting, you should, great points!
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  • Profile picture of the author Matthew Iannotti
    You pointed out the obvious...Sometimes you have to wonder if you are chirping to the wrong crowd :/
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

    I welcome all your thoughts,

    Derek,

    I hope you're not seriously pissed off, but if you are then ok. But in that
    case I'd suggest it's not worth getting pissed off over. Few things are, in
    my opinion.

    The way people are, because they are people, is not worth getting angry
    over.

    In a place like this, or any other similar situation, the dynamics become more
    peculiar and idiosyncratic for all kinds of reasons. You're looking at motives,
    ambitions, plays and things like that in addition to some of the points you
    made.

    Take care of your space, influence your circle, do what you can... and try
    not to let the rest get to you.

    I knew those things long before I ever accepted them.


    Ken
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by Matthew Iannotti View Post

      You pointed out the obvious...Sometimes you have to wonder if you are chirping to the wrong crowd :/
      I think if nobody says anything then nothing changes.

      Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

      Derek,

      I hope you're not seriously pissed off, but if you are then ok. But in that
      case I'd suggest it's not worth getting pissed off over. Few things are, in
      my opinion.

      The way people are, because they are people, is not worth getting angry
      over.

      In a place like this, or any other similar situation, the dynamics become more
      peculiar and idiosyncratic for all kinds of reasons. You're looking at motives,
      ambitions, plays and things like that in addition to some of the points you
      made.

      Take care of your space, influence your circle, do what you can... and try
      not to let the rest get to you.

      I knew those things long before I ever accepted them.


      Ken
      That's true, I was pissed off but not anymore, however it won't let me change the title of the post. Anyway, I know that it's not easy to change things "the way they are" but if enough people try, then we can really help a lot more people take action instead of not taking action.

      I just feel really bad for people that want to make it but they spend all day here without doing anything useful and then they get angry because they aren't making any money... I make money, enough to justify being here, and am trying to teach others, I hope some will listen and become financially free too!

      Thanks, I never really looked at it the way you described, pretty good stuff Ken. When you finally write that book, I'll buy a copy
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      • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        That's true, I was pissed off but not anymore, however it won't let me change the title of the post.
        try advanced editor if it will let you do that, if so you can change the title there

        Anyway, I know that it's not easy to change things "the way they are" but if enough people try, then we can really help a lot more people take action instead of not taking action.
        you will never in 1000 years get people to do anything other than what they want to do themselves, and you can spend every waking hour holding them up to a shiny light, then as soon as you look away they will slip back into the darkness.
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
          Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

          try advanced editor if it will let you do that, if so you can change the title there




          you will never in 1000 years get people to do anything other than what they want to do themselves, and you can spend every waking hour holding them up to a shiny light, then as soon as you look away they will slip back into the darkness.
          Interesting perspective on things...
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          • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
            Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

            Interesting perspective on things...
            Based on 20 plus years of working in real time with people, if you hold them up they will sing all the right songs you want to hear, turn your back or let go of their hand they slide back down.

            You do not want to look for people sitting on the lounge in dis array who are having the nightly winge and whine and tell your self that you can save their poor lost soles.

            The reason being is simple, you do not have the power to save their soles, only they do, only when they decide "I have had enough" and they rise for themselves from the lounge chair of depression and start to make a change for the better, will they then be ready to make a difference in their life's destiny, not before, find the people who are already working to-wards a better now regardless of the tough odds and work with those people and life / helping people will turn from pissed off to enjoyable.
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            • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
              Originally Posted by newbim View Post

              Nice post. Thank you.
              no problem.

              Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

              The difference is just that I've got 30 plus years of offline project management experience I brought with me online. I get everything done, on time, under budget and exceeding everyone's expectations.

              Project management isn't something you can jump in and do, it takes time and experience and a hell of a lot of organization. This is why so many people fail at taking on 10 projects and finishing none of them.

              In a lot of my old posts I talk about taking an "Engineered" approach to product development - it's core to continually developing new products.
              If you have a link to those posts you can put here, I think they'll be really helpful.

              Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

              Based on 20 plus years of working in real time with people, if you hold them up they will sing all the right songs you want to hear, turn your back or let go of their hand they slide back down.

              You do not want to look for people sitting on the lounge in dis array who are having the nightly winge and whine and tell your self that you can save their poor lost soles.

              The reason being is simple, you do not have the power to save their souls, only they do, only when they decide "I have had enough" and they rise for themselves from the lounge chair of depression and start to make a change for the better, will they then be ready to make a difference in their life's destiny, not before, find the people who are already working to-wards a better now regardless of the tough odds and work with those people and life / helping people will turn from pissed off to enjoyable.
              Yes, very good point, I've seen this time and time again that working with people who want your help makes it much easier and thank God that is how my business is set up, but with the people who are looky loos, which can turn into buyers, I want to know how to get more of them to take action, what kind of strategies do you have for this?
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        • Profile picture of the author doorkicker13
          Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

          try advanced editor if it will let you do that, if so you can change the title there



          you will never in 1000 years get people to do anything other than what they want to do themselves, and you can spend every waking hour holding them up to a shiny light, then as soon as you look away they will slip back into the darkness.

          I agree 100% here. When I made E-5 and had a team under me I had a few kids come and go because some people simply are motivated and impossible to motivate. I've seen people that were not motivated become motivated and go on to do great things, but it's rare. Once someone has an idea of themselves in there head it takes a lot of time and work to get them turned around.

          I think the best thing we can do is just keep on providing quality posts and hope for the best. It's really not our job to take people by the hand. If someone is motivated and willing to work for it then by all means they should be helped. Otherwise, it's a waste of time. Sad, but true.
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    Are you really pissed off about this? If so, they have pills that you can take to calm yourself down.

    I learned a long time ago that if everybody was motivated, then we would all be average. If everybody succeeded in their goals, then we would all be average. If everybody had the same amount of fun, then we would all be average.

    I'm glad that I'm not average.
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    • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      Are you really pissed off about this? If so, they have pills that you can take to calm yourself down.

      I learned a long time ago that if everybody was motivated, then we would all be average. If everybody succeeded in their goals, then we would all be average. If everybody had the same amount of fun, then we would all be average.

      I'm glad that I'm not average.

      So...you have a link?
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  • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
    "Against the herd"...exactly.

    It requires extraordinary dedication, strength, willpower and brains.

    That's why there is a herd.
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    I can appreciate what you're saying, but not why it would piss you off.

    On the hand, sure, as members of the Warrior Community it's great to see people succeed, but on the other hand, you cannot do anything about those who fail or do the things on your list, except bring it up now and then as a reminder.

    I agree with most of what you're saying except the bit with Rich Schefren - it's a bit more complex than that. People need to learn how to effectively manage projects, so they see consistent ROI.

    Breaking down tasks into manageable units of work is an engineering mainstay. It what allows us to easily manage 15 to 20 or more projects at one time, all the while enjoying a regular cycle of completing projects, starting new ones and managing existing ones.

    I think Rich might be referring more to the process of getting so caught up in the daily tasks, the actual project never sees the light of day.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      People need to learn how to effectively manage projects, so they see consistent ROI.
      Consistent ROI comes from consistent projects.

      One project almost never gives you consistent ROI. You need a collection. The quantity of projects smooths out the bumps until it looks nice and smooth, and you get better at managing each project... but the smoothness and consistency doesn't come from your better management. It comes from the size of your collection.

      It's just like statistics. No matter how good you are at asking questions, asking one person or just a few people isn't statistically valid. You have to ask a LOT of people before the answers matter in the aggregate.

      Most people don't understand averages. I say "each of my products makes me an average of $250 per month" and they think "why, that would pay my bills."

      Except some months, certain products generate NOTHING. That's why I say "on the average." One month last year, I made under $100. A couple months later, I had a huge surge of interest on a product that threw almost $10k into my pocket. The average income of those two months was just short of $5k, but I didn't actually have $5k during one of them.

      My projection - admittedly, based almost entirely on guesswork - is that you don't really get a consistent level of income with less than 20 projects. Once you have 20 of something, you can smooth out the bumps and have a reasonably reliable idea of how much money you're going to make each month. But with only five or ten projects, a hiccup on just one of them makes a sizeable impact on your income.
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      • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        Consistent ROI comes from consistent projects.

        One project almost never gives you consistent ROI. You need a collection. The quantity of projects smooths out the bumps until it looks nice and smooth, and you get better at managing each project... but the smoothness and consistency doesn't come from your better management. It comes from the size of your collection.

        It's just like statistics. No matter how good you are at asking questions, asking one person or just a few people isn't statistically valid. You have to ask a LOT of people before the answers matter in the aggregate.

        Most people don't understand averages. I say "each of my products makes me an average of $250 per month" and they think "why, that would pay my bills."

        Except some months, certain products generate NOTHING. That's why I say "on the average." One month last year, I made under $100. A couple months later, I had a huge surge of interest on a product that threw almost $10k into my pocket. The average income of those two months was just short of $5k, but I didn't actually have $5k during one of them.

        My projection - admittedly, based almost entirely on guesswork - is that you don't really get a consistent level of income with less than 20 projects. Once you have 20 of something, you can smooth out the bumps and have a reasonably reliable idea of how much money you're going to make each month. But with only five or ten projects, a hiccup on just one of them makes a sizeable impact on your income.
        Just like they say in one of my favorite movies "office space" Yea, I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there. It is my experience that the fewer projects I focus on, the more money I make, every time, because my focus is like a laser and I am able to get them to the money making stage faster than say if I were nurturing 20 projects.
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

          Yea, I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there.
          Yeah, you're actually going to go ahead and miss the point.

          Projects do not require eternal focus.

          Once you get a project to the point of diminishing returns, you walk away and go to the next project.

          At NO time are you doing twenty projects AT ONCE.

          But the consistent income only shows up when you have about twenty completed projects BEHIND you.
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          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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          • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

            Yeah, you're actually going to go ahead and miss the point.

            Projects do not require eternal focus.

            Once you get a project to the point of diminishing returns, you walk away and go to the next project.

            At NO time are you doing twenty projects AT ONCE.

            But the consistent income only shows up when you have about twenty completed projects BEHIND you.
            Hmm, different strokes for different folks I guess, I do pretty well and I don't have twenty projects nor am I nursing twenty projects, I guess we just do things differently my friend, and that's OK. I don't believe that there is a wrong way to do this, as long as you are getting the results you want.
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            • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
              Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

              I do pretty well and I don't have twenty projects
              Again, missing the point.

              Income from any project has variation. Over the course of many projects, you learn what causes the variation and how to reduce it. Later projects have less variation, and the earlier projects represent a smaller percentage of the overall income - so their larger variations have less impact.

              Which makes the overall monthly income picture more consistent.

              Whether you are doing "pretty well" is rather irrelevant.
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              "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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            • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

              Hmm, different strokes for different folks I guess, I do pretty well and I don't have twenty projects nor am I nursing twenty projects, I guess we just do things differently my friend, and that's OK. I don't believe that there is a wrong way to do this, as long as you are getting the results you want.
              Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

              Yeah, you're actually going to go ahead and miss the point.

              Projects do not require eternal focus.

              Once you get a project to the point of diminishing returns, you walk away and go to the next project.

              At NO time are you doing twenty projects AT ONCE.

              But the consistent income only shows up when you have about twenty completed projects BEHIND you.
              I think you both missed my point

              Think of project management like an assembly line at the Ford Motor Company. There is always one car just starting to be assembled, 30 more down the line in various stages of production and one always rolling off the line. This is project management at it's absolute best!

              When you work on one project at a time, you're typically taking weeks or months to get a sustainable product out the door producing income for you. When you work on multiple projects, managed effectively, you're consistently rolling a new product out the door on a scheduled basis.

              This allows you to develop small, medium and large scope products while sustaining and growing revenue levels consistently.

              In a simplistic model, you should always be starting one project (research, planning), somewhere in the middle of another project and wrapping one up.

              Then you throw a larger project into the mix (say something that might take six months to a year), while your smaller projects and completed products are sustaining your cash flow.

              That's basically how I work anyways...
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              • Profile picture of the author ashleysmith12
                Hello,

                Have you really pisses off something?? I think you should take pills to get rid of it!!
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                • Profile picture of the author tambajosephfoyah
                  To be completely honest I was one of those people who would buy most products when I first started IMing. After about a grand or so wasted I realize that most people make money online by telling people how to make money online. John Chow from JohnChow.com said it perfectly.

                  Once I came to that realization it was easy to see that I needed to be one of those people telling others how to make money online.

                  Its take new IMs a while to figure that out, and sadly to say but 98% never do. Not meaning to be selfish but I'm glad I did.
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      • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        Consistent ROI comes from consistent projects.

        One project almost never gives you consistent ROI.

        You're making a pretty broad stroke of the brush, there. Even though
        there is some validity in what you say. But I think it depends on the
        nature and scope of the projects.

        I would say Mike's comment is more accurate - effectively managing
        projects, continuing to improve ROI through conversion optimization
        and expanding promotions will definitely produce a consistent ROI.


        Ken
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
          Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

          You're making a pretty broad stroke of the brush, there. Even though
          there is some validity in what you say. But I think it depends on the
          nature and scope of the projects.

          I would say Mike's comment is more accurate - effectively managing
          projects, continuing to improve ROI through conversion optimization
          and expanding promotions will definitely produce a consistent ROI.


          Ken
          Yes, I'd have to agree, pick a project, make it profitable through testing, then add a project, rinse and repeat.
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
    Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

    Are you really pissed off about this? If so, they have pills that you can take to calm yourself down.

    I learned a long time ago that if everybody was motivated, then we would all be average. If everybody succeeded in their goals, then we would all be average. If everybody had the same amount of fun, then we would all be average.

    I'm glad that I'm not average.
    Brian, you are absolutely right, and no I'm not pissed about it anymore, they just won't let me change the title of the post.

    What I'm really asking here is, how can we teach in such a way that would help more people convert to success? For example, when I sell products, the majority of them read some of it, but life happens and they forget, is there a strategy you use to get your customers to actually take the action? How do you motivate them? Because my highest paying customers are the ones that actually do the work...

    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

    Being pissed off is a waste of your energies my friend. Especially if it diverts you so much that you have to write such a post (even though it is somewhat useful).
    Yes Chris, I'm not angry any more, however, they won't let me change the title of the post. do you have any ideas of how to get your customers to apply what you teach them? What are some of the things that are you are doing in this regard?
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post

      "Against the herd"...exactly.

      It requires extraordinary dedication, strength, willpower and brains.

      That's why there is a herd.
      My whole goal with this is to get more of my customers to apply my products because they will get better results and ultimately pay me more in the long run, while getting ever increasing value. What are some of the things that you are doing in this regard?

      Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post

      So...you have a link?
      What do you mean?

      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      I can appreciate what you're saying, but not why it would piss you off.

      On the hand, sure, as members of the Warrior Community it's great to see people succeed, but on the other hand, you cannot do anything about those who fail or do the things on your list, except bring it up now and then as a reminder.

      I agree with most of what you're saying except the bit with Rich Schefren - it's a bit more complex than that. People need to learn how to effectively manage projects, so they see consistent ROI.

      Breaking down tasks into manageable units of work is an engineering mainstay. It what allows us to easily manage 15 to 20 or more projects at one time, all the while enjoying a regular cycle of completing projects, starting new ones and managing existing ones.

      I think Rich might be referring more to the process of getting so caught up in the daily tasks, the actual project never sees the light of day.
      Yes, I'm not angry anymore, yet they won't let me change the post title. I'm not sure I agree with what you said about what Rich said, but what I've found most helpful for me is that I can have 5,10, even 15 projects that I want to do, which I really do have and none of them have gotten done in the past. Then when I just picked one of the projects and completed it to the end, then when I was done with that one, picked up another one and completed that and so on is when stuff actually got done. However I believe there is more than one way to skin a cat and if tiered scheduling works for you, have at it.
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      • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        I'm not sure I agree with what you said about what Rich said, but what I've found most helpful for me is that I can have 5,10, even 15 projects that I want to do, which I really do have and none of them have gotten done in the past. Then when I just picked one of the projects and completed it to the end, then when I was done with that one, picked up another one and completed that and so on is when stuff actually got done. However I believe there is more than one way to skin a cat and if tiered scheduling works for you, have at it.
        The difference is just that I've got 30 plus years of offline project management experience I brought with me online. I get everything done, on time, under budget and exceeding everyone's expectations.

        Project management isn't something you can jump in and do, it takes time and experience and a hell of a lot of organization. This is why so many people fail at taking on 10 projects and finishing none of them.

        In a lot of my old posts I talk about taking an "Engineered" approach to product development - it's core to continually developing new products.
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        • Profile picture of the author Charles Harper
          Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

          The difference is just that I've got 30 plus years of offline project management experience I brought with me online. I get everything done, on time, under budget and exceeding everyone's expectations.

          Project management isn't something you can jump in and do, it takes time and experience and a hell of a lot of organization. This is why so many people fail at taking on 10 projects and finishing none of them.

          In a lot of my old posts I talk about taking an "Engineered" approach to product development - it's core to continually developing new products.
          Mike, I love your software, put if you but something together on this I will buy it.

          CT
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Banks
    Yup, you need focus to do a lot, otherwise you will end up doing a lot of nothing!
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by jrbanks View Post

      Yup, you need focus to do a lot, otherwise you will end up doing a lot of nothing!
      Yes, what are some of the strategies you use to do this?
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        Yes, what are some of the strategies you use to do this?
        A strategy for focus? Is there such a thing? Strategies are needed for businesses, projects, etc. - but I think focus is something you get from your inner drive. It comes from wanting something bad enough to sit and work at it. You don't plan to focus - you focus to plan.

        That's part of people's problem with working for themselves. They talk about focus but I don't think most people know how to actually do it or they just don't care about something enough to actually put focus into it. Some have a lot of focus, but can't seem to aim it at the right thing. When you are all worried about "how fast can I make money", you aren't focusing on what you need to do to get it at all.

        Big Mike -- Hordes of hyped marketing has drawn a lot of people who think there is no skill necessary to make money online. So what you see in the forums is masses of completely unskilled workers. If they stop long enough to look around, they will see that there is no such thing as building a business with no skills. You have to have some skills. Period. I'm wondering how long it takes the average person to listen to "gurus" talk about the businesses they were in before they got online or what hoops they had to jump through to learn something before they realize that people making money have skills.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bradley J Anderson
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Big Mike -- Hordes of hyped marketing has drawn a lot of people who think there is no skill necessary to make money online. So what you see in the forums is masses of completely unskilled workers. If they stop long enough to look around, they will see that there is no such thing as building a business with no skills. You have to have some skills. Period. I'm wondering how long it takes the average person to listen to "gurus" talk about the businesses they were in before they got online or what hoops they had to jump through to learn something before they realize that people making money have skills.
          Excellent point, HeySal. There have a been a number of threads dismissing the value of a college education, but in my opinion if you don't have the drive, focus and determination (as well as learning ability) to make it through college, you're probably not going to do very well in IM.

          True, there are many people who strike it rich without going to college, but
          a) these people all have those same characteristics hard-wired in, and
          b) you can bet those people still had to learn numerous skills along the way.

          If your only education and work experience in life is flipping burgers at McDonald's, you can't just jump in, grab a WSO, and expect to be making 6 figures 90 days later.

          IM requires a LOT of different skill sets.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    This thread reminds me of the 5 kittens my wife brought home.

    The kittens are orphaned, they are bottle fed & have been in the house for 3 days (maybe a couple of weeks old?). I decided to let them out on the porch (3 ft. high) to see the world (lol). At the top of the front porch, the first step is a very small height that the kittens can get up/down with ease. However the 2nd step is twice the height as the first step.

    My wife was saying don't let them fall off the 2nd step. I was telling her, that's how animals learn is from trial & error (testing). A couple of kittens took a dive to the 2nd step & was just fine. BTW, the kittens were never in any danger while trying to jump down to that 2nd step.

    My point is humans tend to be more cautious about testing new things, than animals are. Animals have that Get-R-Done attitude, & simply move on to the next task.

    Testing never stops, life is all about learning something new by trial & error...
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by doorkicker13 View Post

      I agree 100% here. When I made E-5 and had a team under me I had a few kids come and go because some people simply are motivated and impossible to motivate. I've seen people that were not motivated become motivated and go on to do great things, but it's rare. Once someone has an idea of themselves in there head it takes a lot of time and work to get them turned around.

      I think the best thing we can do is just keep on providing quality posts and hope for the best. It's really not our job to take people by the hand. If someone is motivated and willing to work for it then by all means they should be helped. Otherwise, it's a waste of time. Sad, but true.
      I think I kinda agree with that, the wheels are still turning though...

      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      This thread reminds me of the 5 kittens my wife brought home.

      The kittens are orphaned, they are bottle fed & have been in the house for 3 days (maybe a couple of weeks old?). I decided to let them out on the porch (3 ft. high) to see the world (lol). At the top of the front porch, the first step is a very small height that the kittens can get up/down with ease. However the 2nd step is twice the height as the first step.

      My wife was saying don't let them fall off the 2nd step. I was telling her, that's how animals learn is from trial & error (testing). BTW, the kittens were never in any danger while trying to jump down to that 2nd step.

      My point is humans tend to be more cautious about testing new things, than animals are. Animals have that Get-R-Done attitude, & simply move on to the next task.

      Testing never stops...
      one of the more interesting posts I've seen.
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      • Profile picture of the author doorkicker13
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        I think I kinda agree with that, the wheels are still turning though...
        Well, I know it's not about life and death here but the same principals apply - to me at least.
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
          Originally Posted by doorkicker13 View Post

          Well, I know it's not about life and death here but the same principals apply - to me at least.
          I understand where you are coming from.

          Here' the deal, I understand that most of my income comes from repeat buyers and I know that because my stuff is good, people will come back for me, I am looking for strategies to get the customers engaged in working through the program so that they get the results that they want and hopefully will want a more advanced result and therefore purchase upgrades, etc. As long as I provide equal or greater value to them. What ideas do you have for this?
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Well, it's better to be pissed off than pissed on, but seriously ....

    There are a lot of people who just don't have the aptitude or discipline to be entrepreneurs. As far as the bashers you speak of, I don't see much of that. There's plenty of disagreement on any topic posted, but bashing doesn't last very long here.

    But one point you made, people who do want to give it a go should concentrate on and complete one project at a time. It's the constant looking for yet another shiny object and the resulting information overload without actually implementing any of it that dooms a lot of people here to failure.
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Well, it's better to be pissed off than pissed on, but seriously ....

      There are a lot of people who just don't have the aptitude or discipline to be entrepreneurs. As far as the bashers you speak of, I don't see much of that. There's plenty of disagreement on any topic posted, but bashing doesn't last very long here.

      But one point you made, people who do want to give it a go should concentrate on and complete one project at a time. It's the constant looking for yet another shiny object and the resulting information overload without actually implementing any of it that dooms a lot of people here to failure.
      I was waiting for my favorite baddass! Yes, I agree with you, also, shiney object sydrome is a batch of cookies and destroys dreams. It took me two years to cure that disease...
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Better to be pissed off than pissed on.
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  • Profile picture of the author unlimitedmarketing
    I agree. A lot of people are on here looking for a push-button way to make money. Autoblogs and auto this and that. It is nice to have tools that help you along the way. But there is NOT SHORTCUT to success!! I think that's what a lot of people on here don't get. It will take time, and discipline and you will FAIL! But its what you learn and take away that counts.

    I have purchased some facebook marketing WSO's ( how to build fanpages and how to get facebook ads for .01cent a click. Those 2 things have really changed everything for me. I am offering fanpages locally and I can bring a ton of TARGETED fans quick with these 2 WSO's.

    That being said, I still have to work, I still have to do research and market my services, and build the pages, etc. Just buying a WSO and letting it build dust on your hard drive, well that won't make you any money.

    Make a plan and TAKE ACTION!
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  • Profile picture of the author jborjaperez
    Hey Derek,

    As far as helping people to become successful.. I believe it's not a matter of holding their hands but rather having undying belief in them. Sometimes people don't believe in themselves, but if they have a mentor or anyone that believes in them.. They are more apt to succeed in whatever venture. This doesn't mean do everything for them, it means be their support. Because we all know that immediate results suck.. And for someone that isn't tuned to this kind of game can get discouraged quick!

    So I guess the thing about most products is that, it's a plan with no support.. but thats not to say If someone REALLY wanted to succeed than they would do it regardless of the obstacles..

    I also believe that it takes laser focus to make each product a killer!

    Cheers to everyones success
    -Jared
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  • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

    I can't believe what I'm seeing and I'm saying to myself seriously? This Pisses me off!
    Better than being pissed on....well, unless you're into that kind of thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Linda_C
    Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

    I can't believe what I'm seeing and I'm saying to myself seriously? This Pisses me off! ( People failing miserably, when the answer is right under their nose but they REFUSE to accept it because it wasn't the answer they wanted...

    People learn at their own pace. If YOU took a couple years to get past shiny object syndrome, why flog people who haven't got past it yet? You learned. They will too. But they'll learn at their pace, not anyone else's.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mreese601@gmail.com
    Reading the different replies I just wanted to add to it. It's seem like this would be a great place to talk about the 80 20 rule. 80% of the people want do much at all. 20% of the people will take action and take you to new levels. Just focus on the 20%. And you will see your income level shoot up, It's that simple. People that really want to be successful will be. Those that think it's a good ideal, well will keep on thinking it's a good ideal. Making money online is really easy too do, that is if we willing to do the steps to make the money.
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by unlimitedmarketing View Post

      I agree. A lot of people are on here looking for a push-button way to make money. Autoblogs and auto this and that. It is nice to have tools that help you along the way. But there is NOT SHORTCUT to success!! I think that's what a lot of people on here don't get. It will take time, and discipline and you will FAIL! But its what you learn and take away that counts.

      I have purchased some facebook marketing WSO's ( how to build fanpages and how to get facebook ads for .01cent a click. Those 2 things have really changed everything for me. I am offering fanpages locally and I can bring a ton of TARGETED fans quick with these 2 WSO's.

      That being said, I still have to work, I still have to do research and market my services, and build the pages, etc. Just buying a WSO and letting it build dust on your hard drive, well that won't make you any money.

      Make a plan and TAKE ACTION!
      Once you make enough money where you are not worried about it anymore, then buy all these things to tinker with.

      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      Better to be pissed off than pissed on.
      Yes, I saw that on the movie 'robin hood, men in tights' awesome movie.

      Originally Posted by jborjaperez View Post

      Hey Derek,

      As far as helping people to become successful.. I believe it's not a matter of holding their hands but rather having undying belief in them. Sometimes people don't believe in themselves, but if they have a mentor or anyone that believes in them.. They are more apt to succeed in whatever venture. This doesn't mean do everything for them, it means be their support. Because we all know that immediate results suck.. And for someone that isn't tuned to this kind of game can get discouraged quick!

      So I guess the thing about most products is that, it's a plan with no support.. but thats not to say If someone REALLY wanted to succeed than they would do it regardless of the obstacles..

      I also believe that it takes laser focus to make each product a killer!

      Cheers to everyones success
      -Jared
      Yes, you hit the nail on the head, focus is huge! or as Donald Trump says, Uge!

      Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

      Better than being pissed on....well, unless you're into that kind of thing.
      how did you know I was into that?

      Originally Posted by myob View Post

      Sounds like there really may be a problem here.
      maybe...

      Originally Posted by Linda_C View Post

      People learn at their own pace. If YOU took a couple years to get past shiny object syndrome, why flog people who haven't got past it yet? You learned. They will too. But they'll learn at their pace, not anyone else's.
      Maybe not flog them for it, but rather help them out of it sooner by helping them get some results by doing the basics.

      Originally Posted by Mreese601@gmail.com View Post

      Reading the different replies I just wanted to add to it. It's seem like this would be a great place to talk about the 80 20 rule. 80% of the people want do much at all. 20% of the people will take action and take you to new levels. Just focus on the 20%. And you will see your income level shoot up, It's that simple. People that really want to be successful will be. Those that think it's a good ideal, well will keep on thinking it's a good ideal. Making money online is really easy too do, that is if we willing to do the steps to make the money.
      Yes, very true and I really find that 80/20 rule to be very accurate in most cases! I don't think that it's hopeless to help the shiney object seekers, no, I believe that if they were going to switch to someone who sticks to something that there are ways to speed this up, I know there are and someone out there in the universe has figured it out, but it appears that they don't know about the warrior forum

      or...

      are reading this and says to him/herself "ha ha, ...and they'll never know"
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      • Profile picture of the author Linda_C
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post


        Originally Posted by Linda_C View Post

        People learn at their own pace. If YOU took a couple years to get past shiny object syndrome, why flog people who haven't got past it yet? You learned. They will too. But they'll learn at their pace, not anyone else's.
        Maybe not flog them for it, but rather help them out of it sooner by helping them get some results by doing the basics.
        Aw, darn. And I thought there was gonna be a flogging, so I made popcorn. :rolleyes:

        Kidding. I like your answer, except I'm not sure it works that way.

        I used to think that I could help people past the shiny object stage, too. Sometimes I'd even coach people free or half rate because I wanted to badly to get them past the magpie stage. Then one day I realized I had my idioms mixed up and the one that applies best to IM and all things marketing is "when the student is ready, the teacher appears."
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  • Profile picture of the author AgentP
    I can relate with # 5 :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Bradley J Anderson
      I don't know how I missed this thread. o.O You make some really good points in here. Another great thread, Derek.

      I get a lot of PMs and emails from new people here asking questions, when what they should be doing is posting to the boards, instead. I tell all of them that what works for me, may not work for you. You need different viewpoints to make informed decisions, and that's a large part of what this forum is about. All of these different viewpoints, different experiences, all with different products and services, is extremely valuable.

      Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

      Derek,

      I hope you're not seriously pissed off, but if you are then ok. But in that
      case I'd suggest it's not worth getting pissed off over. Few things are, in
      my opinion.

      The way people are, because they are people, is not worth getting angry
      over.

      Take care of your space, influence your circle, do what you can... and try
      not to let the rest get to you.

      Ken
      Very true. I learned early in life that what other people do, say or think, is none of my business. I won't waste my time on them because I have too many important things of my own to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
    The day this forum reverts back to a marketing forum and not a hyped up make money online forum, the day this thread will be far greater understood.

    This place is invaluable, but I'm starting to look for some real marketing communities again, as things are moving away from their roots around here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sunnyside_Services
    Great post, Derek. I personally know for a fact I suffer from information overload. I have been successful with flipping websites, but I often find myself here on this forum looking for more ways to make even more money. I know I need to get focused on expanding my current business model and making it explode. I guess I read your post for a reason
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