26 replies
I know this seems like a very beginnerish question, and considering how much I've read on this topic I should probably have a clearer view than I do.

From what I know, when submitting articles to directories and web 2.0 sites for backlinks it doesn't matter if it's spun or not since sydicate content, although may be placed in the supplemental index, they are still able of passing on link juice. But perhaps more "unique" content has a higher success rate of being indexed by Google?

So why spin articles? Is it to reduce footprints (another concept I need to do more research on) or just to make sure that each and every site will be indexed due to the level of uniqueness? I suppose if your main goal of article submission is true article marketing in the sense that you primary intention is recieving visitors to your site through those articles instead of the backlinks generated then it would make sense to spin the articles.

Is that anywhere close to being correct? Or am I just spreading misinformation
#spin
  • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
    All I know is that MANY of the top tier sites that were notorious for accepting spun content were collectively hammered hard recently. Maybe..just maybe...Google doesn't like spun content?

    ...also, selling people on the IDEA of spinning articles (and, further, the software), makes up thousands in monthly earnings of alot of bloggers. It's always easy to justify something when they are making such a huge profit from it. They have a vested interest in justifying spinning to the extreme, that's for sure.
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  • Profile picture of the author junilerick
    Thanks for the reply, solxdier.

    Well, there must be some merit in the concept considering even top IMers seem to advocate it, although perhaps not to the same extent as most people. To be honest, I find it difficult to believe that Google can efficiently determine (or at all) whether the content is spun or not, unless there's some sort of common foot print that allows them to focus in on a blog network or something.

    So do you actually only submit each article once or do you just submit it as syndicate content and bypass spinning altogether?
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesGw
    If anything, I think it's people hoping that multiple copies of their spun article will rank, sending in referral traffic and maybe increasing each article's PR. That said, it's usually just easier to not spin. You get higher CTRs, better readability, and the backlinks count about the same.
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  • Profile picture of the author junilerick
    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

    Supposedly, it makes sites more likely to pick up your content and use it as they apparently would see it as being unique.

    Personally I don't think that's true though.
    I believe that out of all the major article directories, only Buzzle would refuse syndicate content.
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  • Profile picture of the author reynoldscorb
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    • Profile picture of the author Natausha
      Originally Posted by reynoldscorb View Post

      Here's an opinion.

      Say you send an article to two separate article directories and some random reader happens to come by both of them. If they are carbon copies of each other they might get a little suspicious or even annoyed that they are running into the exact same thing in multiple places.

      I think it's important for readers to read multiple articles differently but get the same thing from each. I'm no Psychology student (Computer Science) but something tells me that seeing something multiple ways is more effective than seeing something one way.

      For instance, I use a lot of online tutorials if there's something I need to learn when I'm programming. I can't begin to explain how frustrated I get when I read one resource that's poorly worded and then go to another website and see the exact same article posted. I think the same applies to article marketing and spinning articles. Send out one article and maybe 80% of readers can understand what you're saying and come out with a positive outlook, but what about the other 20%. I think that other spun versions of that same article are just other opportunities to convert that other 20%.

      Just came up with that off the top of my head so it may be a little jumbled...

      Actually I really agree with this. Sometimes you need to read the same thing just in a different way in order to "get it" and Spinning is one way to accomplish that. I also can't stand it when I go from one site to another and see the exact same article word for word, that will annoy me 1000 times more than reading a very similar article on the same topic.

      Reading 2 articles on 2 different sites that are similar, tends to re-enforce the "correctness" of the article for people, where as the same article just cut and pasted over and over seems like spam and hurts the readers view of you/your site.

      IMO
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      • Profile picture of the author markowe
        Originally Posted by Natausha View Post

        Actually I really agree with this. Sometimes you need to read the same thing just in a different way in order to "get it" and Spinning is one way to accomplish that.

        Hmm, you are somehow suggesting that 'spinning' produces quality, readable content! And I just know someone is going to weigh in on this thread and say that when THEY 'spin' articles, it's indistinguishable from unique, written-from-scratch content. I have yet to see such a beautifully 'spun' work of literary perfection. If such a thing exists then you wonder why professional authors don't 'spin' their books for maximum exposure.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by markowe View Post

          Hmm, you are somehow suggesting that 'spinning' produces quality, readable content! And I just know someone is going to weigh in on this thread and say that when THEY 'spin' articles, it's indistinguishable from unique, written-from-scratch content. I have yet to see such a beautifully 'spun' work of literary perfection. If such a thing exists then you wonder why professional authors don't 'spin' their books for maximum exposure.
          How do you tell if a page is spun if it's done correctly? And this is what many base their opinions, the BAD spinning, as you can't detect well done spinning.

          Plus, when I create my spun pages based on my strategy right above, I use what I call "fixer files". Virtually all mstakes when spinning are repeated throughout.

          If I make 1000 pages using my strategy, I open up about 25 of them, then start making quick corrections, which is actually a second spinning session. This corrects the vast majority of errors across all 1000 pages.
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        • Profile picture of the author NicoleBeckett
          Originally Posted by markowe View Post

          And I just know someone is going to weigh in on this thread and say that when THEY 'spin' articles, it's indistinguishable from unique, written-from-scratch content. I have yet to see such a beautifully 'spun' work of literary perfection.
          I'm sure someone will come in here and say that I'm wrong... after all, their sister's-friend's-aunt's-cousin's-husband reached the #1 spot for all of their target keywords solely by spinning spun content to the article directories, so clearly, it works!

          That being said, though, I totally agree with you, Mark. I have yet to see anything that went through a spinner and came out for the better.

          My most recent favorite?

          The article that replaced "sleep apnea" with "doze apnea". Is that a lesser form of sleep apnea? Do you only stop breathing when you start to doze off, and then you're good to go for the rest of the night :confused: Seriously, folks, don't be the guy who publishes stuff all over the internet about "doze apnea" :rolleyes:
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          • Profile picture of the author myob
            Especially, never spin medical articles. Someone could die of a synonym. Seriously, if I ever started spinning articles within my professional niches, there would be no end to the ridicule and castigation. Reputation ranks much higher than spinning could ever go. What good what it do to be ranked #1 on Google as the niche idiot?
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              • Profile picture of the author Troy Broussard
                From an SEO perspective I'd like to point out a couple of very solid reasons for spinning that have nothing to do with the great big debate (not necessarily in this thread but on the net in general) regarding spinning.

                Most people focus on the issues raised here - getting more links, the issue of quality content, etc... But here are a couple of very good reasons for spinning.

                #1 - Anchor Text and Keyword Variance - Just bombarding your site with the same anchor text is not likely to get the desired results nowadays - you need to mix it up and try to keep things looking more natural. Spinning - especially nested spinning - allows you to really mix up your anchor text.

                #2 - Acceptance rate at most linkbuilding sites requires it. So this is just a pragmatic reasoning, but if you're submitting via any of the big article submission network sites, most any of them will require spinning or even if they don't you should. What I mean by that is usually the owners of the sites have a setting where they can just automatically refuse to post content that is not spun to a certain thresshold of uniqueness.

                Anyway, I'm not on either side of this fence - actually I just take a very pragmatic approach - but for the two reasons above, like it or hate it, spinning is still effective even in this post-panda era of SEO.
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        • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
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          Originally Posted by markowe View Post

          Hmm, you are somehow suggesting that 'spinning' produces quality, readable content! And I just know someone is going to weigh in on this thread and say that when THEY 'spin' articles, it's indistinguishable from unique, written-from-scratch content.
          When I spin articles, you have no idea it is a spun article. Just because you are incapable of doing it doesn't mean the rest of us are.

          I have yet to see such a beautifully 'spun' work of literary perfection.
          And? How many "original", non-spun articles are beautiful pieces of literary perfection?

          If such a thing exists then you wonder why professional authors don't 'spin' their books for maximum exposure.
          Because that would be stupid.
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  • Profile picture of the author markowe
    I would love to see actual evidence that filling the web with gazillions of (mostly abominably poor) variations of the same content is actually of any benefit for SEO purposes. But since this is not the SEO forum I will just say that this received 'wisdom' is shaky at best. I read a post on a black hat forum (well, you have to stay in touch with the Dark Side :/) where a guy said he would routinely spend THREE DAYS 'spinning' an article! THREE DAYS! You could write 10 quality, completely unique, well-researched articles in that time! You could write a best-seller in a few weeks, you could write a killer product that sold millions!

    I think the problem is that Google cannot come out and say "Look guys, 'spinning' is totally ridiculous, just stop swamping the Internet with crap, we'll come clean, spinning has no benefits whatsoever, just fill the Internet with identical copies of the same content instead, already." At least this way SEOers are kept busy
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Spun articles can be successfully submitted to poor, low-quality article directories, but equally the same article could have been used unspun in those same low-quality article directories with the same benefits. The only real benefit is the backlink, and the backlink is exactly the same whether the content's spun or just syndicated, and whether the page is in Google's main index or the supplemental index.

      This is traditionally a subject on which people's opinions differ quite widely, because it tends frequently to be discussed by people who don't quite appreciate the differences between "duplicate" and "syndicated" content, and their significance (and even by some other people who don't want others to appreciate those differences!).

      It's one of the subjects on which two distinct groups, definable as (a) "people using article marketing" and (b) people making a good living from article marketing, have views and opinions on which they can never agree. In many discussions of the subject, the first group are in the great majority and theirs - however mistaken - tends understandably to be the viewpoint that comes across as "the consensus opinion" on such questions. Especially when continually reinforced by those with a direct financial interest in promoting spinning, some of whose sales pages are noted for perpetuating and propagating some of the more grotesque urban myths of internet marketing: I've even seen it claimed (though perhaps only by those with a financial interest) that "duplicate content" and "syndicated content" are the same thing, in Google's eyes!

      It's easy (to the point of being trite) for marketers to observe that they've "spun their way to any number of Google page 1 listings", of course: but this in itself proves nothing, without being compared with how that can be done just as easily with syndicated (i.e. unspun) articles - typically, they don't tell you that, though.

      One thing's for sure, as the collective posts in any number of "spinning threads" here will confirm for you: people who are switching from spun to syndicated content aren't switching back.
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  • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
    I am running an experiment as we speak. I launched a spinner seed directory where, theoretically, no two views in a browser should be the same. In other words, whenever Visitor 1 views article A, it will be different than the one Visitor 2 sees when they load article A in their browser.

    The stats so far seem pretty interesting.

    Anyway. coding it was a bit tough, but I finished it.

    Spinning something correctly is not for everybody. If you don't know what you are doing or how to use the final product, then most are better off just writing the article straight up.

    However, it does have it's uses. For instance. If you have your own product and you want to attract affiliates, planting a seed like this in a directory can be a goldmine if your affiliates realize that they have access to unique content. They will spread it across the web for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    I won't speak for others, but the reason I spin is because it works. However, I don't spin like most people do and created my own software for the job years before anyone used the word "spinning".

    Let's say I write 20 articles, each with 5 solid paragraphs of content. And each paragraph is a bit of info that can stand on its own and doesn't need any other paragraphs before or after to make sense.

    That's 100 paragraphs. The freelance writer advice at this point is to write more articles. Instead, I take the 100 paragraphs and mix in match them in different orders and numbers, ranging from 4-9 paragraphs per page.

    Then I will do a little "spinning", changing and adding keywords here and there, as well as removing a sentence or two in some places. This not only allows me to get a lot more keywords into play than "normal writing", it also gives me all sorts of keyword densities, keyword combinations and all sorts of SEO variation, such as page file size, etc.

    Doing this, I can take the original 20 articles and create 1000s of pages, with mostly "original" content. If you take any single page and compare it to another, most of them will have vastly different content.

    Picture this, a page with paragraphs:
    2
    87
    53
    32
    18

    Can link to a page using paragraphs like:
    67
    81
    5
    23
    44

    When I do link like this, I can be pretty sure that if a real person follows a link from the first page to the second, they will very likely find some more useful info.

    And because I can make tons of pages like this, I can put them all over the place...On blogs, lenses, article directories, my own domains, Squidoo, etc. and create a huge network from a few articles.

    So, a freelance writer writes 20 articles and I write 20 articles. The next day they write another article and the next day I have thousands. They use a couple of keywords and I use 100s.
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    • Profile picture of the author junilerick
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I won't speak for others, but the reason I spin is because it works. However, I don't spin like most people do and created my own software for the job years before anyone used the word "spinning".

      Let's say I write 20 articles, each with 5 solid paragraphs of content. And each paragraph is a bit of info that can stand on its own and doesn't need any other paragraphs before or after to make sense.

      That's 100 paragraphs. The freelance writer advice at this point is to write more articles. Instead, I take the 100 paragraphs and mix in match them in different orders and numbers, ranging from 4-9 paragraphs per page.

      Then I will do a little "spinning", changing and adding keywords here and there, as well as removing a sentence or two in some places. This not only allows me to get a lot more keywords into play than "normal writing", it also gives me all sorts of keyword densities, keyword combinations and all sorts of SEO variation, such as page file size, etc.

      Doing this, I can take the original 20 articles and create 1000s of pages, with mostly "original" content. If you take any single page and compare it to another, most of them will have vastly different content.

      Picture this, a page with paragraphs:
      2
      87
      53
      32
      18

      Can link to a page using paragraphs like:
      67
      81
      5
      23
      44

      When I do link like this, I can be pretty sure that if a real person follows a link from the first page to the second, they will very likely find some more useful info.

      And because I can make tons of pages like this, I can put them all over the place...On blogs, lenses, article directories, my own domains, Squidoo, etc. and create a huge network from a few articles.

      So, a freelance writer writes 20 articles and I write 20 articles. The next day they write another article and the next day I have thousands. They use a couple of keywords and I use 100s.
      Thanks for the input. The method you use has been coming into popularity (a little) lately and it seems like an pretty decent concession between "orignal" content and mass submission from a quality point of view. I suppose the primary reason for doing this would be creating linkwheels (please correct me if I'm sounding silly).

      This seems like a great way to keep both the search engines (backlinks from link wheels) and human readers (decent quality content) happy.

      With this method do you submit each article manually? Because I don't believe that any spinner is actually able to produce spintax that will only select a few paragrahs for each article.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    LONG. Its very tedious, manual work and needs very good understanding of the language so all variations and synonyms really make sense. Writing a 500 words article and spinning each sentence +2 and then selecting *appropriate* synonyms...2-3 hours. (Doing only word synonyms...25 minutes)
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      You guys work way too hard. All I do is write an article and submit it to an article directory or two (sometimes), put it on an RSS feed where it goes to thousands of syndicated subscribers, and some additional thousands are delivered by autoresponder and fax. Then I go out and play golf. The only things that spin are my balls.
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  • Profile picture of the author klein risley
    I never had any luck with spinning. Original Content is definitely the way to go!
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  • I dropped the idea of spinning articles and never really did it.

    1. To spin correctly you need to invest quite a good time. Good spinning is like rewriting an article 3 times. Why not investing this same time in making 2 or 3 NEW articles? If you don't have any idea, get a PLR articles and mix it with you own, really own ideas and ways of saying. You can also spend 2-3 days or even a week to research the matter for 1/2 hour a day beforehand.

    2. I was confirmed by a very successful IM marketer that the best is to write unique content and manually submit to article websites. The human touch is unique like in all crafts.

    3. You can outsource the both of them. Do your maths.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Peltonen
      Marketers tend to spin their original articles to save some time instead of making a new one. It can work but hardly. Original content still stands rather that spun articles which are usually easily detected that results to not being that helpful at all.
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      • Profile picture of the author marknel
        Personally..I am a bit shaken after the panda update as I hugely depended on article submissions ... with spun ones.These days its guest blogging with unique 5 articles every week.
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        • Profile picture of the author J Bold
          Originally Posted by marknel View Post

          Personally..I am a bit shaken after the panda update as I hugely depended on article submissions ... with spun ones.These days its guest blogging with unique 5 articles every week.
          That's a great idea.

          If you can get some guest blogging on some high traffic blogs you can really rock it, no doubt. You have to really find a good one, though, and it can take time.

          When you do that you don't have to worry so much about SEO and all that but just benefit from the traffic that direct traffic can bring you.
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          • Profile picture of the author Gail Ogden
            Why spin - Time!!!

            It's possible to do quality spinning. One manually spin ready article can take 3 or 4 or more hours. But if you are conscious of the spin and do it all correctly you can get hundreds if not thousands of articles that are completely readable and don't look anything like those auto spun ones. Get your article spin ready with nesting, and with phrases and not just words like the auto spinners do.

            Why not just submit one article everywhere?

            Ever notice that sometimes when you search something and then you click to take you directly to the last page of the search. You will find that very often you get significantly less results than what they first told you were there. Ever notice that you get a message that looks like this:
            In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 77 already displayed.

            Ever notice that Google doesn't show all your back-links. One reason is that they hide the ones they think are exactly the same or too similar.

            Original is by far the best, but if you need a lot of back-links to rank in your niche, it could take you very along time to build enough to get to the top.

            Gail
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