What John Reese Said...

15 years ago

Hear, hear, Eric. I'm guessing some people might qualify that by saying 'work smarter' rather than 'work harder' but all things being equal (i.e. talent, intelligence, etc) he/she who works harder will probably win.

In his latest book The Outliers (great book, although I don't agree with everything) Malcolm Gladwell compares elite musicians with music teachers i.e. musicians who were good enough to teach but weren't elite.

The difference? It was NOT talent. It was actually that, from a young age, the elite musicians tended to practice much, much more than the music teachers. Can't remember exactly, but it was something along the lines that the elite musicians practiced a few hours a day, while the others just practiced a few hours a week.

The same applies to every other field with the general view among experts that it takes 10,000 hours of doing something to become a master at it.

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imaddict

15 years ago

"The only time success comes before work is the dictionary" - can't remember who said that but I too shall steal it and make it my own

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Joseph Then

15 years ago

JR always end this in his forum posts:

Get Back To Work!

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Debbie Songster

15 years ago

... and somehow the people looking for the "get rich quick" solutions never seem to get it. Do they?

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ExRat 15 years ago

Hi Eric,

Some alternative ideas were thrashed around and mulled over here recently -

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...tml#post347595

Admittedly, many of us are not quite as far ahead as Mr. Reese, although I must admit personally, I have no fear of hard work myself.

Enjoy
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chris_surfrider

15 years ago

The only possible thing to add to that, is to work hard at the right thing.

A lot of people are tying to sell the unsell-able.

I speak from previous experience, and I worked damn hard.

Other than that, though, W-O-R-K will pretty much solve all your financial problems.

-Chris

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MichaelJ168 15 years ago

I like both JR and Frank Kern very much!

It is ...

We all need to WORK hard enough to gain whatever we dream..

Wish every warrior a successful 2009...

M
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kohym

15 years ago

That's the law of compensation. As long as you keep working hard, you are creating a vacuum and it must be filled up with some other things.

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utproducts

15 years ago

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Chris Lockwood

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul M

I've noticed many people still make the connection that money equals success
which isn't true for everyone...The coal miner may consider himself very successful
and could also consider himself the riches man in the world.

Why?

His vision of success or being rich could be having his job, health and family around
him. Where as Warren Buffets vision of success maybe being the richest man in the
world {in monetary terms}
l

If health is part of your definition of success, coal mining is not the best career choice.

I'm sure many people enjoy coal mining more than they would enjoy making a higher income without risking their lives at work.

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ExRat

15 years ago

Hi Chris,

If health is part of your definition of success, coal mining is not the best career choice.

I'm sure many people enjoy coal mining more than they would enjoy making a higher income without risking their lives at work.

It's funny you should say that. I know exactly where you're coming from because what you say is 'conventional wisdom.'

One of my best friend's fathers passed away last week. He was 88. He used to be a coal miner when he was younger for many years.

Yes, the conditions he worked in were extremely unhealthy and dangerous. And he used to come out of the mine after sweating multiple litres of fluid, and go straight to the pub and drink 10 pints of beer before going home. Any doctor would suggest that that was not wise.

Yet he was one of the most cheerful, positive and healthy people I knew - even in old age. He would run home after the pub rather than waiting for a bus if the bus was five minutes late - when he was 70! I saw it with my own eyes and there was no way I was running home.

Conversely, there are many who do high powered/paying sedentary jobs who have weight and stress problems and a dodgy ticker.

I know where you're coming from - I'm just saying that life works in funny ways and often the people who try to avoid danger attract it to themselves by doing so, and the ones who seek it appear to have a guardian angel.

It's often the guy who lives next to the power station while doing a 'safe' job who gets ill, while the miner thrives.

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jrsencio

15 years ago

Yeap.. work.. work on the right thing and work smart.

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Eric, you know I have as much respect for you as anybody in this business
but I have to disagree.

When I first started, back in 2003, I worked my tail off...14 hours a day.

I made $28 in 5 months.

Why?

Because I didn't have a freaking clue what I was doing.

Working hard is totally meaningless if you don't know what you're doing.

I learned that lesson the hard way.

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carmene

15 years ago

I agree Steve. When I first started, I worked HARD. Very Hard and didn't make any money for a very Loooong time.

There are other things that need to be included in the equation. There must be focus. So, you can't have a general goal such as "working hard to make money at IM". That's too general. You have to zero in on that target such as "Working hard in the Affiliate Marketing arena to make $x a month".

Only then will your hard work be channeled so it provides fruit.

That's just my 2 cents.

Carmen

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Eric, you know I have as much respect for you as anybody in this business
but I have to disagree.

When I first started, back in 2003, I worked my tail off...14 hours a day.

I made $28 in 5 months.

Why?

Because I didn't have a freaking clue what I was doing.

Working hard is totally meaningless if you don't know what you're doing.

I learned that lesson the hard way.

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Raydal

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Eric, you know I have as much respect for you as anybody in this business
but I have to disagree.

When I first started, back in 2003, I worked my tail off...14 hours a day.

I made $28 in 5 months.

Why?

Because I didn't have a freaking clue what I was doing.

Working hard is totally meaningless if you don't know what you're doing.

I learned that lesson the hard way.

And I'll have to disagree with you Steven. You learned what NOT to do.
You made a lot more than $58 because you gained an education in
what DOESN'T work.

99 blows at a rock and its the last blow that splits that rock! This doesn't
mean that the other 99 blows were a waste of time--on the contrary--those
blows prepared the rock for the last blow.

-Ray L.,

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tomw

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Raydal

And I'll have to disagree with you Steven. You learned what NOT to do.
You made a lot more than $58 because you gained an education in
what DOESN'T work.

99 blows at a rock and its the last blow that splits that rock! This doesn't
mean that the other 99 blows were a waste of time--on the contrary--those
blows prepared the rock for the last blow.

-Ray L.,

I take you're point, but in regard to Steve's post, he could also have simply paid a geologist to show him precisely where to hit as there could have been a weakness in the strata...or he could have hired a guy with a jackhammer. In both cases he would have achieved his goal quicker AND learned how to break similar rocks in the future.

Similarly, we can learn to drive by crashing into walls, hedges and people over and over until we get it right, or we can simply take lessons.

This was the point he was making.

Thomas

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Raydal

And I'll have to disagree with you Steven. You learned what NOT to do.
You made a lot more than $58 because you gained an education in
what DOESN'T work.

99 blows at a rock and its the last blow that splits that rock! This doesn't
mean that the other 99 blows were a waste of time--on the contrary--those
blows prepared the rock for the last blow.

-Ray L.,

I would have much rather somebody gave me a better sledge hammer
to begin with and saved me all that expended energy.

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Eric Louviere

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I would have much rather somebody gave me a better sledge hammer
to begin with and saved me all that expended energy.

I FULLY understand the arguments about; working smart... etc etc

I TOTALLY understand that, and have always thought that myself.

However... for just a second. Put that on the shelf. Forget about working smart for just one second. Ok? Now, with most of the people out there (MOST) they do not work hard. They may act like they do... or maybe they work hard here and there. Or, maybe they just spend a TON of time infront of the computer, but not working HARD.

Just in the real offline world too, most just show up to work. They just react. Do they really work harder than everyone else? If they did work harder than everyone else, then they'd most likely get further ahead... figure stuff out that most dont... and begin to work smarter in the process.etc etc

"Working hard" is the missing ingredient.

Most successful IMers ALL say the same things... "I busted my ass for a year or three, and then made my breakthrough!" etc etc

And many were involved in other things... like MLM... offline businesses... into business opportunities... Direct Mail... etc etc BEFORE they took the plunge into IM.

AND, they still had to work their asses off at the beginning.

You cannot work smart, until you work hard. You can be smart and try to work smart, but when you are new to something (or not yet successful at something), then you dont know what working "smart" even is yet.

I can easily say to someone who is very smart... and getting started in this business, "Make sure and focus on traffic and conversions" and they will find themselves spending weeks and months installing a fancy blog.

How do I focus on traffic? In fact... what the heck is "traffic" anyway?

Again, I totally understand the rationale about working smart. I get that. In fact, I've noticed myself working smarter and smarter each month - it seems.

Eric
PS - I know a lot of rich IMers who are not that fricken smart (at least not like me)

lol

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Eric Louviere

I FULLY understand the arguments about; working smart... etc etc

I TOTALLY understand that, and have always thought that myself.

However... for just a second. Put that on the shelf. Forget about working smart for just one second. Ok? Now, with most of the people out there (MOST) they do not work hard. They may act like they do... or maybe they work hard here and there. Or, maybe they just spend a TON of time infront of the computer, but not working HARD.

Just in the real offline world too, most just show up to work. They just react. Do they really work harder than everyone else? If they did work harder than everyone else, then they'd most likely get further ahead... figure stuff out that most dont... and begin to work smarter in the process.etc etc

"Working hard" is the missing ingredient.

Most successful IMers ALL say the same things... "I busted my ass for a year or three, and then made my breakthrough!" etc etc

And many were involved in other things... like MLM... offline businesses... into business opportunities... Direct Mail... etc etc BEFORE they took the plunge into IM.

AND, they still had to work their asses off at the beginning.

You cannot work smart, until you work hard. You can be smart and try to work smart, but when you are new to something (or not yet successful at something), then you dont know what working "smart" even is yet.

I can easily say to someone who is very smart... and getting started in this business, "Make sure and focus on traffic and conversions" and they will find themselves spending weeks and months installing a fancy blog.

How do I focus on traffic? In fact... what the heck is "traffic" anyway?

Again, I totally understand the rationale about working smart. I get that. In fact, I've noticed myself working smarter and smarter each month - it seems.

Eric
PS - I know a lot of rich IMers who are not that fricken smart (at least not like me)

lol

So in a sense what you're saying is that the working smart doesn't
come until you've worked hard.

So in the case of the doctor, the working hard is the 4 years of med
school. (I hear it's a bitch).

Okay fine. Then why can't we have something like that in IM? Why can't
we get a "certified" training program (even if it costs $20,000) that will
absolutely prepare us for the IM world where, in our first year, we can
earn 6 figures without all the "banging out heads into a wall trying to
figure it out."

All I'm saying is, there must be a better way, because the way I got to
where I am...sucked big time.

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Eric Louviere

15 years ago

Because you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink.

Think about it. If I had a program like that and one of the requirements
was to rewrite 25 professional sales letters by hand. How many would
actually do it? Most would say they did it. Most would say they did it
to move on to the next requirement to finish the course as soon as
humanly possible so they can quickly get to the "magic button" and
"tricks" and "secrets".

Then - after that has happened, and they are at the end of the 20k
course/certification... and they have not done jack-s%^t on any of
the required work assignments... and they are NOT making any money...
they yell at the top of the hill --- "Eric Sucks Rust Off Bumpers and
all his stuff is crap...!!"

(not true btw)

Then that certification becomes a piece of virtual paper that does not
mean squat for making money.

And lastly.... no mentor or guru or monkey can make you rich (or successful).
Only you can do that. There's nobody who is going to fly in with a cape
and red boots and save your day. You are your own Superman!

Up, Up and Away!

Eric

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

So in a sense what you're saying is that the working smart doesn't
come until you've worked hard.

So in the case of the doctor, the working hard is the 4 years of med
school. (I hear it's a bitch).

Okay fine. Then why can't we have something like that in IM? Why can't
we get a "certified" training program (even if it costs $20,000) that will
absolutely prepare us for the IM world where, in our first year, we can
earn 6 figures without all the "banging out heads into a wall trying to
figure it out."

All I'm saying is, there must be a better way, because the way I got to
where I am...sucked big time.

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Eric Louviere

Because you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink.

Think about it. If I had a program like that and one of the requirements
was to rewrite 25 professional sales letters by hand. How many would
actually do it? Most would say they did it. Most would say they did it
to move on to the next requirement to finish the course as soon as
humanly possible so they can quickly get to the "magic button" and
"tricks" and "secrets".

Then - after that has happened, and they are at the end of the 20k
course/certification... and they have not done jack-s%^t on any of
the required work assignments... and they are NOT making any money...
they yell at the top of the hill --- "Eric Sucks Rust Off Bumpers and
all his stuff is crap...!!"

(not true btw)

Then that certification becomes a piece of virtual paper that does not
mean squat for making money.

And lastly.... no mentor or guru or monkey can make you rich (or successful).
Only you can do that. There's nobody who is going to fly in with a cape
and red boots and save your day. You are your own Superman!

Up, Up and Away!

Eric

Well, I'm not talking about anybody saving my day. I'm talking about
a course where I have to do the work. Where if I don't write those
25 sales letters and they're not top notch I don't pass.

You give me the freakin education and I'll make sure I get my sh*t
together.

Will everybody do it? Probably not. Probably only 2% of the people who
take the course will be serious about it.

But I'm one of those 2% so yes, I wish to God I hate it when I first
started.

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

And here's another thing. You're saying a formal education is crap?

Then why do we bother selling these "how to make money online" products?

If the formal education is crap then these products are even worse crap
and none of them should be allowed to be sold.

You can't have it both ways.

If you're going to sell products to teach people how to run an online
business, how about just simply having one that is accredited by some
organization like the teachers association and be done with it? Make it cost
a small fortune, just like going to Harvard or wherever, and that way only
the really serious of us will take the course?

It's not rocket science. Formal education works.

I'm just saying that if we had it in the IM community it would help a
small percentage who were dedicated enough to actually take it
seriously and complete it...satisfactorily enough so that they will have
the real tools to run a successful business provided they actually take
that information and use it.

That's all I'm saying...let's finally standardize this sh*t and stop having
people wonder what works and what doesn't work.

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OnlineMasterMind 15 years ago

No.

Formal education does not work.

SELF education works.

"Formal education will make you a living, self education will make you a fortune."
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- Steven Wagenheim 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind
  
  No.
  
  Formal education does not work.
  
  SELF education works.
  
  "Formal education will make you a living, self education will make you a fortune."
  
  Well, I guess we'll just have to disagree on this and that's cool.
  
  I know what works for me.
  
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  OnlineMasterMind 15 years ago
  
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  Steven Wagenheim 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind
  
  OK - so you are saying the six figure income that you now earn is a result of your FORMAL education?
  
  Just want to clarify
  
  My 6 figure income came 4 years too late because I had to struggle through
  making some of the biggest bone headed mistakes a person could make. And
  guess what? I'm STILL making mistakes. I don't have all the answers. And at
  this stage of my IM career, I am ready to pay for all the answers, provided
  somebody can actually provide them.
  
  In med school, you get the whole human anatomy...not just the vital organs.
  
  That's all I'm asking for here.
  
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Eric Louviere

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

And here's another thing. You're saying a formal education is crap?

Then why do we bother selling these "how to make money online" products?

If the formal education is crap then these products are even worse crap
and none of them should be allowed to be sold.

You can't have it both ways.

If you're going to sell products to teach people how to run an online
business, how about just simply having one that is accredited by some
organization like the teachers association and be done with it? Make it cost
a small fortune, just like going to Harvard or wherever, and that way only
the really serious of us will take the course?

It's not rocket science. Formal education works.

I'm just saying that if we had it in the IM community it would help a
small percentage who were dedicated enough to actually take it
seriously and complete it...satisfactorily enough so that they will have
the real tools to run a successful business provided they actually take
that information and use it.

That's all I'm saying...let's finally standardize this sh*t and stop having
people wonder what works and what doesn't work.

lol

This topic is twisting and spinning into something dangerous. I dig it.

So, uh, yeah, I'm saying a lot of the products that teach "how to make
money" ARE crap. Many are sold by people who dont make crap. Many
are thrown together and cost more than the value provided (crap).

A formal education can be a good thing. But, again, you can only lead
a horse to water.

So... who's going to start this IM college? I want a hot teacher.

Eric

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OnlineMasterMind

15 years ago

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Eric Louviere

15 years ago

Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind

I'll teach you Eric but I'll tell you upfront - you can only make $50 per day until you get "certified"...

...well once you become "junior certified" you can make $67 per day but be patient. One day we will "appoint" you worthy of making money.

You have to wait - this takes time you know...

This isn't some get rich quick scheme!

50 bones?

lmao!

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Eric Louviere

lol

This topic is twisting and spinning into something dangerous. I dig it.

So, uh, yeah, I'm saying a lot of the products that teach "how to make
money" ARE crap. Many are sold by people who dont make crap. Many
are thrown together and cost more than the value provided (crap).

A formal education can be a good thing. But, again, you can only lead
a horse to water.

So... who's going to start this IM college? I want a hot teacher.

Eric

Eric, you're one of the smartest guys online...why don't you start it?

Get together with some other big names and seriously put together a
massive curriculum. Price it so that only the very serious will even
consider it, but most importantly, no holding back on those "closely
guarded secrets" that only those who are earning 7 figures know. All
must be revealed...full disclosure.

I'd do it, but honestly, since my smarts have only taken me to 6 figures
annually, I don't have all the pieces to justify charging $20,000 for an
education. A few hundred? Certainly...but not $20,000, or whatever price
tag you want to put on it.

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Eric Louviere

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Eric, you're one of the smartest guys online...why don't you start it?

Get together with some other big names and seriously put together a
massive curriculum. Price it so that only the very serious will even
consider it, but most importantly, no holding back on those "closely
guarded secrets" that only those who are earning 7 figures know. All
must be revealed...full disclosure.

I'd do it, but honestly, since my smarts have only taken me to 6 figures
annually, I don't have all the pieces to justify charging $20,000 for an
education. A few hundred? Certainly...but not $20,000, or whatever price
tag you want to put on it.

Most who need it don't have 20k to invest. One of the important things
in marketing is pricing. You have to price it in a manner to which the
product "moves" off the shelves, yet makes you the most you can make.

However, if the governments of the world would allow grants and financial
aid for students to attend my prestigious "Louviere University" I might
consider.

...And if I get an economic stimulus package too!

...And if I get my own college football team (with cheerleaders)

Eric

Thanks for saying I'm the smartest guy online.

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Eric Louviere

Most who need it don't have 20k to invest. One of the important things
in marketing is pricing. You have to price it in a manner to which the
product "moves" off the shelves, yet makes you the most you can make.

However, if the governments of the world would allow grants and financial
aid for students to attend my prestigious "Louviere University" I might
consider.

...And if I get an economic stimulus package too!

...And if I get my own college football team (with cheerleaders)

Eric

Thanks for saying I'm the smartest guy online.

It would be a certified college, just like real colleges so yes, you would get all that government sh*t.

I know you think I'm kidding but I am dead serious.

As far as the market not being there, maybe you're right now given
the current mindset of the general population.

But why is that?

I mean after all, people do go to college. My daughter pays $30,000 a
year for the privilege so why can't we, but changing the perception of
the industry itself, make going to college for Internet marketing be just
as respectable?

I don't think it's impossible to do. Hard? Maybe, but not impossible.

There are people out there who are already educated, losing their
corporate America jobs, who would be more than open to a formal
education in IM. If anything, given what they've come from (a formal
education) they'd probably not only be open to it but they'd expect it.

Hell, I could be totally off base here. It won't be the first time. But it
just seems to me that the right minds could actually make this thing fly.

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Eric Louviere

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Well, I'm not talking about anybody saving my day. I'm talking about
a course where I have to do the work. Where if I don't write those
25 sales letters and they're not top notch I don't pass.

You give me the freakin education and I'll make sure I get my sh*t
together.

Will everybody do it? Probably not. Probably only 2% of the people who
take the course will be serious about it.

But I'm one of those 2% so yes, I wish to God I hate it when I first
started.

Well dude, Wags, you are different
;0

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Eric Louviere

Well dude, Wags, you are different
;0

Then that is a sad commentary on people.

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Eric Louviere

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Then that is a sad commentary on people.

Sad but true

(man, I seem like the negative one here)

I'm just saying WORK HARD!

That's all.

Work hard = success

laziness = not working hard

Drinking = drunk

Eric

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Didier Faucher

15 years ago

Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind

No.

Formal education does not work.

SELF education works.

Sorry to say that this way, but this is stupid.

Do you know a doctor who doesn't have a formal education?
A lawyer? A primatologist?

It seems that you have the "there's nothing outside internet marketing
and direct marketing" mentality, and I don't think that's good, both
for you and your children if you have any. - No offense from me.

There's a life outside the internet and internet marketing.

All people probably don't make a fortune, but some of them do
a work they love.

Anthropologist, teacher, linguist, etc.

Originally Posted by Eric Louviere

Work hard = success

laziness = not working hard

I agree that success need a lot of work.

The paradox is in the IM industry 99% of sales letters say no
work needed, no money to invest, no website, no product to
make, etc. (Brain optional) Make millions doing nothing. :rolleyes:

Didier

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ExRat

15 years ago

Hi,

This thread is absolutely priceless for anyone who wants to look beyond the obvious and learn about the nature of internet marketing/marketers and their followers.

As I mentioned near the start, this exact subject was thrashed out a couple of days ago in another thread, that contained no guru name in the title, no talk of 'how I earned 6 figures' and didn't lead to two new threads being started and in my humble opinion, contained a lot more clarity. It was just a bunch of (no offence, but I'm including myself) 'nobodies.'

I don't expect anyone will agree with my point of view here, but as usual, in my own cryptic way, I'm trying to help people to understand something important that they don't want to hear. But if they refuse, it's no skin off my nose.

Makes me think of many warriors who used to post real sage advice here, without fanfare and without moulding it into some kind of presell or display of feathers - the real undergrounders with real hard-earned knowledge from the trenches.

I guess they've decided to drop their Bomz elsewhere - no-one was listening here.

Season Greetings!

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi,

This thread is absolutely priceless for anyone who wants to look beyond the obvious and learn about the nature of internet marketing/marketers and their followers.

As I mentioned near the start, this exact subject was thrashed out a couple of days ago in another thread, that contained no guru name in the title, no talk of 'how I earned 6 figures' and didn't lead to two new threads being started and in my humble opinion, contained a lot more clarity. It was just a bunch of (no offence, but I'm including myself) 'nobodies.'

I don't expect anyone will agree with my point of view here, but as usual, in my own cryptic way, I'm trying to help people to understand something important that they don't want to hear. But if they refuse, it's no skin off my nose.

Makes me think of many warriors who used to post real sage advice here, without fanfare and without moulding it into some kind of presell or display of feathers - the real undergrounders with real hard-earned knowledge from the trenches.

I guess they've decided to drop their Bomz elsewhere - no-one was listening here.

Season Greetings!

Thanks Roger...I get it.

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davesharp 15 years ago

Hi,

"I like people who start work early, they are ruling the world whilst everyone else is sleeping."

I'm not sure who originally said this but it is something I have lived my life by.

I also started off a couple of years ago not knowing what I was doing and getting nowhere. I looked at expensive courses and decided they where not for me so how did I go about finding the right path, so to speak.

Well it was easy really I just picked a handful of people on this forum that I admired for there openness and honesty and closely followed what they are doing. It is hard work because I am running two businesses a physical one and a virtual one, but what the heck, who needs sleep anyway.

All the very best,
Dave
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OnlineMasterMind

15 years ago

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Chris Lockwood

15 years ago

Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind

I wasn't talking about succeeding as an "employee."

But thanks for your out of context interpretation of my post and the subsequent judgement of that interpretation.

I didn't say anything about being an employee. Plenty of doctors and lawyers are self-employed.

As I said, it's the law that requires formal education for some professions.

Nothing I said was out of context any more than your post, and the word is "judgment."

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OnlineMasterMind

15 years ago

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TJ Kazunga

15 years ago

However... for just a second. Put that on the shelf. Forget about working smart for just one second. Ok? Now, with most of the people out there (MOST) they do not work hard. They may act like they do... or maybe they work hard here and there. Or, maybe they just spend a TON of time infront of the computer, but not working HARD.

Just in the real offline world too, most just show up to work. They just react. Do they really work harder than everyone else? If they did work harder than everyone else, then they'd most likely get further ahead... figure stuff out that most dont... and begin to work smarter in the process.etc etc

"Working hard" is the missing ingredient.

I really don't agree. Well, let me qualify that... I don't agree if we are talking about the wider world beyond the confines of this beautiful forum!

Quick case in point. You know the charity that Alan is always promoting in his sig, Kiva? Well, they enable us to support entrepreneurs in the developing world.

From experience, I know that your average African poor farmer is probably one of the hardest working individuals in the world (and for Africa you can read Asia, Middle East, Latin America etc and the point still stands).

It's not a question of not working hard, and please don't mention working smart either. They work as smart as they are allowed to - and that's the point. They just don't have enough opportunities to capitalise on their hard/smart work.

No access to loans, education, knowledge, markets etc etc. No opportunities. So in that case hard word=success is rather too simplistic.

However, give them the opportunities and they fly, especially with their hard work! I've seen it happen time after time.

Of course in the case of us pampered citizens of Web 2.0, well, we have it good, real good. On this forum we have an embarrassment of opportunities, in the form of free knowledge, that other people would chop their right hands off to access. So there is no excuse for Warrior's really.

In this case I will paraphrase Eric's point - " Hard work=success... especially for Warriors!"

Happy Christmas all.
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Chris Lockwood 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Didier Faucher

Do you know a doctor who doesn't have a formal education?
A lawyer? A primatologist?

By law, doctors and lawyers have to have formal education to practice, so what is your point?
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- Didier Faucher 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood
  
  By law, doctors and lawyers have to have formal education to practice, so what is your point?
  
  My point is formal education can lead to *success*.
  
  Success is not only making lots of money in business.
  
  It depends what you want in life and what your goal is - seems obvious.
  
  That was just a general remark.
  
  Originally Posted by Didier Faucher
  
  Do you know a doctor who doesn't have a formal education?
  A lawyer? A primatologist?
  
  Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood
  
  By law, doctors and lawyers have to have formal education to practice, so what is your point?
  
  It's not for primatologists.
  
  Didier
  
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OnlineMasterMind 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Then why can't we have something like that in IM? Why can't
we get a "certified" training program (even if it costs $20,000)

Sell pieces of paper for 20k? Brilliant!
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mbealmear

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Eric, you know I have as much respect for you as anybody in this business
but I have to disagree.

When I first started, back in 2003, I worked my tail off...14 hours a day.

I made $28 in 5 months.

Why?

Because I didn't have a freaking clue what I was doing.

Working hard is totally meaningless if you don't know what you're doing.

I learned that lesson the hard way.

I totally agree. I began working with IM and worked non-stop for 6 months before got my first measly paycheck of $120. Shortly after that I decided that something had to change because I was putting in so much time and getting nothing back from it. Thats when I decided to work "smarter" rather than harder. And it has paid off for me.
Now I do about 1/3 of the work and make a much better living!

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carmene 15 years ago

Eric,

Maybe you set up a school just for Steve and have him as your only student! Charge him a lot too, ok.
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hjaynes 15 years ago

It's all about accomplishment vs. activity...

I think a lot of us are GREAT "starters"...but not so good "finishers"... (I slide in and out of both groups)

I think the common denominator with successful internet marketers (or any kind of marketer) is that they are "finishers"...

I've focused in the past few years about being a "finisher".... and sometimes it's just little stuff that makes all the difference.
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absolutelee

15 years ago

The thing about working smarter is this. Unless you work harder, you have no idea what to do in order to work smarter. You can't work smarter first. You have to make the mistakes, then decide not to make them anymore. So, right on! WORK!

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by absolutelee

The thing about working smarter is this. Unless you work harder, you have no idea what to do in order to work smarter. You can't work smarter first. You have to make the mistakes, then decide not to make them anymore. So, right on! WORK!

How about getting a proven mentor to show you how to do it correctly
from the start?

That's what I wish I had done so I didn't make all those dumb mistakes.

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Ron Douglas

15 years ago

I agree that you need to work, but I think two words are even more important:

PLAN and MANAGE

You could really sit here and not physically do work, but if you have a good plan and know how to manage assistants, coders, designers, writers, systems and your ROI, you're in business.

That plus a good idea & some creativity and you can make millions.

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tomw

15 years ago

Eric,

This is one of those subjects where reaching consensus will always be difficult. In their own ways most people are right in what they say and the "argument" I guess, comes down to semantics. Simply the terms used by different people to define almost the same thing.

You're right. Steve's right. Many others are right.

In my view, I think that the key is "working productively" and therefore also working hard at being productive.

Thomas

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James Schramko

15 years ago

Drucker used to talk about doing the right things is more important than doing things right...

Notice they both have 'doing things' in them......

You have to do things. (Work).

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Louis Raven

15 years ago

The thing that attracts most to this online business is the freedom. That's also the reason most fail.

Having no boss around really does bring out the lazyness in me and I'm guessing it does in others.

Double edged sword marketing.... "on crack".

Louis

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tomw

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

My 6 figure income came 4 years too late because I had to struggle through
making some of the biggest bone headed mistakes a person could make. And
guess what? I'm STILL making mistakes. I don't have all the answers. And at
this stage of my IM career, I am ready to pay for all the answers, provided
somebody can actually provide them.

In med school, you get the whole human anatomy...not just the vital organs.

That's all I'm asking for here.

I'm not having a go at you (you know this!) but you ALREADY know what to do in order to make the leap from six to seven figures. You have consistently (and publicly) said that you refuse to do it for a catalogue of reasons and I'm sure that anyone who reads your posts, particularly over the last couple of months, can list them!

Just sayin', dude...as requested

Thomas

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by tomw

I'm not having a go at you (you know this!) but you ALREADY know what to do in order to make the leap from six to seven figures. You have consistently (and publicly) said that you refuse to do it for a catalogue of reasons and I'm sure that anyone who reads your posts, particularly over the last couple of months, can list them!

Just sayin', dude...as requested

Thomas

I have a decent idea Thomas but I don't have all the pieces. At least I
don't think I do.

And that's another big problem that I don't even want to get into but
what the heck.

No matter how much you know, if you're self taught, you can't possibly
ever be sure that you know everything.

Now, you might argue that you don't need to know everything, and
that's a fair argument. Plenty of people make great incomes online
without knowing everything.

But man, I'd hate to put together this massive comprehensive plan to
hit 7 figures next year only to end up falling way short because I didn't
know 1 or 2 key elements for reaching that income level.

That's where, I feel, a formal education (as long as it's certified by a 7
figure earner or group of earners) can really make a huge difference.

And if you want, have different course levels.

5 Figures a Year Junior Program - $5,000 tuition
6 Figures a Year Senior Program - $20,000 tuition
7 Figures a Year Masters Degree - $50,000 tuition

And you can't move onto the next one until you've completed the one
before it.

There you have it...a $75,000 per student 3 year college program.

Now go on...tell me I'm nuts.

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Eric Louviere

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I have a decent idea Thomas but I don't have all

But man, I'd hate to put together this massive comprehensive plan to
hit 7 figures next year only to end up falling way short because I didn't
know 1 or 2 key elements for reaching that income level.

That's not the right thinking there big daddy.

You should know that you reached six figures without having that mindset.
It's the same thing reaching seven.

You just take off and do that thing you said you'd do. Just move forward
and take action with courage to reach seven figures. Those one or two
key elements will then be figured out along the way.

There are no secrets or key elements anyway. You just reach more people,
that's all. There are two main ways to reach higher income levels:

1. More reach (more prospects, more traffic, more JVs, more sales)
2. More conversions (higher ticket prices, higher conversions, more people buy your stuff, branding, credibility, positioning, entertainment, attraction, endorsements, relationships, etc)

Lastly, sure, some do not want to do all the things they think it takes to get to seven figures and that's fine. The question to ask yourself is: "how big of a business do you want?"

Eric
PS - I made another thread for you wags: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...es-2009-a.html

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ypm 15 years ago

I've enjoyed the discussion in between Eric and Steven. Great points are said on both sides. Both are necessary: Working hard and Working smart.

As for a formal education in internet marketing, the closest I've seen to this so far is Eben Pagan's program Guru MasterMind. Not cheap at 5 to 10 K a year... but top notch training, well above the regular college level.

Yvon-Pierre
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tomw

15 years ago

Surely it's better to put together a "massive comprehensive plan" and fall short at $500K than one to aim to break the $200K mark.

The things you learn from that "failure" will help catapult you even further in the next financial year.

LOL! Nuts? No. But you're a strange character, because in many ways you appear to be such an idealist, a dreamer. Maybe this is the artist in you. Imagine what you could achieve if you focus such energy, passion and belief on your business goals.

Thomas

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by tomw

Surely it's better to put together a "massive comprehensive plan" and fall short at $500K than one to aim to break the $200K mark.

The things you learn from that "failure" will help catapult you even further in the next financial year.

LOL! Nuts? No. But you're a strange character, because in many ways you appear to be such an idealist, a dreamer. Maybe this is the artist in you. Imagine what you could achieve if you focus such energy, passion and belief on your business goals.

Thomas

Yes, I am an idealist and freely admit it. My wife thinks I live in a Peter
Pan fantasy world. That's okay. I have to believe that there is a way to
reach "perfection" in this world, or at least darn close to it.

Why?

Look at what some people have achieved in this civilization's history. NO,
don't worry...I won't go listing them.

Point is...I have seen some amazing things just in my lifetime...things that
100 years go people would have called science fiction.

Do I believe that somebody can put together a "Mr. Spock" business plan
that is absolutely fool proof as long as they just follow the ABC's?

Absolutely.

Will somebody create such a plan?

Maybe not in my lifetime.

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Eric Louviere 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Point is...I have seen some amazing things just in my lifetime...things that
100 years go people would have called science fiction.

Do you see dead people?
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tomw

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Yes, I am an idealist and freely admit it. My wife thinks I live in a Peter Pan fantasy world. That's okay. I have to believe that there is a way to reach "perfection" in this world, or at least darn close to it.

Why?

Look at what some people have achieved in this civilization's history. NO,
don't worry...I won't go listing them.

Point is...I have seen some amazing things just in my lifetime...things that 100 years go people would have called science fiction.

Do I believe that somebody can put together a "Mr. Spock" business plan
that is absolutely fool proof as long as they just follow the ABC's?

Absolutely.

Will somebody create such a plan?

Maybe not in my lifetime.

Hey, you're preaching to the converted. You're not the only idealist around here. The best and brightest people often are

You're right, without them we'd all be lost.

I guess I didn't make myself clear enough. I should have said,

"LOL! Nuts? No. But you're a strange character, because in many ways you appear to be such an idealist, a dreamer. Maybe this is the artist in you. But you worry too much. Think of the ease in which things flow when you write and create articles and stories as well as when you create your music. A productive stream of consciousness. You accomplish so much and I bet it often seems effortless. Imagine what you could achieve if you focus such energy, passion and belief on your business goals.

OK?

Thomas

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by tomw

Think of the ease in which things flow when you write and create articles and stories as well as when you create your music. A productive stream of consciousness. You accomplish so much and I bet it often seems effortless at times.

Yes, it is effortless at times. I suppose I am looking for some kind of
"difference" because of the monetary increase, and yet, when I look at how
I got from $45,000 to $150,000 (this year...yes, I finally hit 150K) the truth
is, I'm not doing a lot different...just more of it.

But to do more than I am doing now...(ding, ding, ding...okay I get it) I
can't do it myself. Either that or I have to start spending more money to
generate more traffic.

It's like Eric said...it's just doing more of what I'm doing.

So it comes down to outsourcing or spending more money on advertising
or both.

Or of course as Eric said, building relationships, which I have done and
am in the process of doing with several members of this very forum.

So without even knowing it, I'm probably already on my way to at least
doubling my income next year...without really doing anything drastically
different.

Okay, sometimes you're too close to the trees to see the forest.

Like I said, I don't have all the answers...but between you and Eric, you
got me a lot closer to them.

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millionebook 15 years ago

Work smart... great advice... It works! Plan ahead ... and use the most of your time
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ajsmith

15 years ago

Honestly, I think that people fall for the many pie-in-sky stories of how Johnny worked for "10 seconds a day, and made over 50,000 a week". I mean seriously. I do believe however that there are some people who fall into luck, and have immense success quickly. But those stories are few and far between.
A coach is good, but the best teacher is the "hard knocks" teacher.

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15 years ago

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Nick Brighton

Sorry for picking on you Steven, but not too long ago I read a post where you were telling people that there is no way you can possibly follow someone's guide/plan/system as there is a little thing called human intervention...

...your point when saying that (which I totally agree with) is that you cannot possibly make something "fool proof" through teachings, as there will always be human error on the user's part, no matter how smart or hard working they may be.

No offense taken...pick away Nick.

You're right. Human intervention will always make anything fallible. I'd
still sooner take my chances with a certified program than some schlock
ebook that Joe Blow wrote that I bought for $97.

And yet, I made it to where I am with almost no education at all.

But damn, it was one hell of a long, hard, nasty, frustrating road.

I just wish somebody could have given me something to make it a little
easier...that's all.

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Louis Raven

15 years ago

Oh great, I thought I had missed this weeks episode of "Steven-&-Tom"

Like clockwork :p

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tomw 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Louis Raven

Oh great, I thought I had missed this weeks episode of "Steven-&-Tom"

Like clockwork :p

Sorry...just answering question, buddy. But point well taken. I guess it's time for a commercial break.

Thomas
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Steven Wagenheim 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Louis Raven

Oh great, I thought I had missed this weeks episode of "Steven-&-Tom"

Like clockwork :p

Louis, I wish I had half the business smarts that Tom has. This guy knows
his stuff.

Besides, it's all in the spirit of goodhearted debate and exchange of ideas.

And it helps me more than you know.
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Steven Wagenheim 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Louis Raven

Oh great, I thought I had missed this weeks episode of "Steven-&-Tom"

Like clockwork :p

One other thing Louis. I've been reading a lot of Tom's posts lately, and I'm
not saying this to butter him up cause I don't do that sh*t, but this is one
guy people should listen to.

He's got more between his ears than peanut butter.
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tomw

15 years ago

That's precisely why we're ALL here...

Thomas

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Zachary R. Skinner

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Eric Louviere

I think if you work hard enough, the "working smart" part will work itself out.

So, the key really is to just W O R K

Good stuff JR.

Eric

I disagree.

There is a person in my family who is an extremely hard worker

About a year and a half ago this person launched a luxury dessert business because it was her dream. She didn't know a damn thing about this market, did very little planning, and has absolutely no business background.

Since the launch of her business she has quit their job and now works 60+ hours a week.

This business is now on the brink of total disaster and its certainly not from a lack of hard work.

The fundamental problem is that this person was never working smart. In other words, the business plan was a joke and no amount of work was going to make it otherwise.

I don't work that hard and I make plenty of money, which is why I was drawn to the internet in the first place.

There's a huge difference between working hard and working smart. You can work hard all of your life and never really get anywhere. In contrast, you can work really, really smart and retire in five years, which happens to be my plan

The people who are really blessed are those that can do both.

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Eric Louviere

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Zachary R. Skinner

I disagree.

There is a person in my family who is an extremely hard worker

About a year and a half ago this person launched a luxury dessert business because it was her dream. She didn't know a damn thing about this market, did very little planning, and has absolutely no business background.

Since the launch of her business she has quit their job and now works 60+ hours a week.

This business is now on the brink of total disaster and its certainly not from a lack of hard work.

The fundamental problem is that this person was never working smart. In other words, the business plan was a joke and no amount of work was going to make it otherwise.

I don't work that hard and I make plenty of money, which is why I was drawn to the internet in the first place.

There's a huge difference between working hard and working smart. You can work hard all of your life and never really get anywhere. In contrast, you can work really, really smart and retire in five years, which happens to be my plan

The people who are really blessed are those that can do both.

Ok, I see how this is an incredibly difficult thing to explain. I fully understand what you are saying. And, I agree. I'm just putting another twist on the thought.

This person is doing the right things to get there. It starts with hard work. If that person decided to do it again, most likely that person would do it smarter. Most everyone fails. But, that person is working hard and success is on it's way to her.

You are smarter the second time around, then third time around, then fourth.

And for you, you dont work hard now. But, I'm sure you did to get to the point where you dont have to. Either way, any way you slice it, working hard is the key.

OK, lets just say the key is to: work hard and smart

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Zachary R. Skinner 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Eric Louviere

OK, lets just say the key is to: work hard and smart

This I agree with!

I see what you're saying, but when you see someone working very hard and you know they are working themselves into the ground, it really makes you question the virtues of hard work.

Ultimately, the internet has made it possible to build a 7 figure business without the need to work yourself to death.

You are 100% right though, in the beginning I did work very hard and really didn't seem to get anywhere. What made me different from my friends and family was that I actually took the initiative and wasn't afraid to fail.

I think that's another important tip too: don't let fear of failure stand your way. I think it's fear of failure rather than laziness that prevents people from working as hard as they should.
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- Lance K 15 years ago
  
  The way I look at it is this...
  
  By default, working smart includes hard work. Kinda like all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.
  
  Working smart is simply hard work with a purpose.
  
  All too often people want their plan to achieve their purpose to be perfect (some never make a plan). So they delay execution.
  
  An unspend round never hits it's target.
  
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  "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
  ~ Zig Ziglar
  
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MaskedMarketer 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Eric Louviere

It starts with hard work.

it doesn't have to be hard work.

for me its fun work.

but work, is the keyword.
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patfl

15 years ago

With all due respect Steven, and I have a lot for you.

Why don't you forget it was so difficult and try new things

My first attempt in IM was to sell affiliate products using PPC... I made $150 USD the first week for less than $40 bucks in adwords cost.

Since I started to read theory about PPC and so on... I couldn't do it anymore.

In my case more I study, worse I get

Patrice

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Anna Johnson

15 years ago

Can we just agree that you need to work smart AND work hard?

Take anyone at the top of their field - whether in sports, the arts, the professions, business, etc. 'Talent' and 'doing the right things' are necessary but not sufficient. To become a master you need to practice, practice, practice. Call it training, studying, work, whatever. If you want to get good at a particular skill, you need to do it over and over. Why? Ask a psychologist, but this seems to be how our brains and bodies work.

Of course, if you don't know what are the right things to do... then the time taken will only be longer. First you'll spend a lot of time doing the wrong things, then you'll spend time 'unlearning' those wrong things, and then you'll finally have to spend more time learning and mastering the right things.

Likewise, any real 'shortcuts' are generally about showing you the right things to do from the get-go, thereby saving you from wasting time doing the wrong things (and then unlearning them).

If you believe it's taking you an inordinate time to get to where you want to be, here are three questions to ask:

1. Do I know the right things to do?
2. Am I doing the right things?
3. Am I doing enough of the right things?
(4. Am I just impatient?)

Finally, we all travel our own paths. We may look back and wish we had achieved better results sooner, etc... but that's both the reality and the beauty of being who we are.

When I started law school I spent the first couple of years working really hard with less than ideal results. My friends were working just as hard and doing better than me. Then I discovered there was a 'trick' to answering the exam questions. Once I knew this, I continued to work hard (I still needed to know the material) but I got much better results because I knew how to answer the exam questions.

I could look back and wish I knew that earlier on... but you know what? Maybe that's just me. Maybe it takes me longer 'get it'. Maybe I have a blind spot that blocks me from achieving breakthroughs earlier than I'd like. Perhaps, I'd be wise to unearth that blind spot so it doesn't hold me back going forward.

Or maybe I'm just impatient...

Anna Johnson

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Tom B

Banned 15 years ago

Leave Eric alone mean people.

Ok I have a question for those that are nitpicking Eric's post regarding working productively.

How do you know what is productive or what isn't when you are first starting out?

Come on Braniacs.

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

Leave Eric alone mean people.

Ok I have a question for those that are nitpicking Eric's post regarding working productively.

How do you know what is productive or what isn't when you are first starting out?

Come on Braniacs.

You don't....which is why you need training.

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Tom B

Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

You don't....which is why you need training.

Not exactly. Even you stated the problem with people following step by step actions.

We need to learn for ourselves. The only way to do that is to work hard. Eventually we will learn what works and what doesn't and how to work more productively. We all need to go through the learning curve. You can speed it up by getting a mentor or training course but it still doesn't keep you from going through the trials and tribulations like everyone else.

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

Not exactly. Even you stated the problem with people following step by step actions.

We need to learn for ourselves. The only way to do that is to work hard. Eventually we will learn what works and what doesn't and how to work more productively. We all need to go through the learning curve. You can speed it up by getting a mentor or training course but it still doesn't keep you from going through the trials and tribulations like everyone else.

Fair enough Thomas, but a mentor, a good one, WILL speed up the process.
It has to, unless you're a genius to begin with.

All I know is I wish I had one when I started. I'd have made 6 figures
my first year. I'd bet my best mule on it.

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tomw

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

Leave Eric alone mean people.

Ok I have a question for those that are nitpicking Eric's post regarding working productively.

LOL! Hey, Thomas, I wasn't nitpicking. Just adding to the debate.

By "working productively" I simply meant to work towards a predefined end goal, by following a predetermined strategy through the application of appropriate tactics.

And also that when applied to Internet Marketing, which the debate was about;

"Productive - Economics: producing or tending to produce goods and services having exchange value."

which is taken from a dictionary.

How do you know what is productive or what isn't when you are first starting out?

By seeking out the appropriate knowledge for yourself or learning from someone that has already discovered how to be "productive," which was Steve's original point.

Like I said in my post, there is no definitive right answer because there are so many ways to express it in the English language.

Thomas

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AndyCamden

15 years ago

You definitely have to put in the work or you will get zero results. I advise learning how to manage your time; or better yet your self!

As Harvey Mackey said "Hard work often leads to success. No work seldom does."

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Paul_Evans

15 years ago

Back to Anna's mention of "Outliers" early in the thread.

The "elite" had 10,000 hours in. They worked hard and "smart."

"Smart" was their coach, teacher, trainer.

Though this might be a stretch think about Michael Phelps.

If he joined the YMCA at an early age, swam daily and did his best to eat right, and then tried to make the Olympics would would he have 18 golds? Would he even have made the team??

He mentioned on The Colbert Report Full Episode | Thursday Dec 11 2008 | Comedy Central (late in the show) that he trained 7 days a week for five years. He and his coach believe that gave him 52 more training days a year than his competition. Or 260 days over the five years.

BUT he wasn't simply "experimenting" during those 5 years. He was doing what was proven to work AND what was designed for his body (his niche). And he was doing more than everyone else.

Fortunately, IM is not nearly as difficult, but some of the same principles apply.

Merry Christmas!

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Li Weng

15 years ago

Personal, I believe

THE RIGHT INFO + HARD WORK (but not so hard..)
= SUCCESS

And hard work is relative. If you can be more efficient
in your work, then you don't have to work as hard as
others.

And in general, the more money you make, the less work
you'll have to do because you leverage on momentum.

I'm sure John Reese does not work as hard as the
factory/warehouse workers in third-world countries.

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Hendry Lee

15 years ago

When I first started, back in 2003, I worked my tail off...14 hours a day.

I made $28 in 5 months.

Why?

Because I didn't have a freaking clue what I was doing.

Exactly, Steve. You were working hard back then to build your (business, marketing, Internet, whatever) skills you might lack of.

I hardly can't imagine someone who can make 1 million in their first month, even with the best mentor, if they start from scratch. Unless of course, the mentor helps him create product, or promote.

Someone with the right work ethic and has the correct combination of skills will see results faster.

And at the end of the day, people who firmly believe that what they are getting out of this is NOT only money, but also skills they could use for the rest of their life, win.

So, work hard!

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billyba

15 years ago

It kinda says it all for my wife and I. We want to work smart and hard, But we need someone to take us by the hand and guide us in the right direction. "Teach us how to fish". So that our hard and smart work right from the beginning will yield results. Hard work never hurt anyone, it's always hard in the beginning.It gets easier as you go, and you don't have to work as hard to get the same results or even better results, with less effort. I think a combination of the three is a good recipe for the two of us anyhow. My .02 cents

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trafficwave

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Eric Louviere

"I believe success can be narrowed down to a four letter word. That four letter word is:

W O R K

As long as you work harder than everyone else, you will eventually be successful."

I had a brother-in-law years ago who used to call me up and say, "Man, I wish I could just get a lucky break like you got.".

"Pardon me?" I would respond. "What lucky break would you be referring to?"

"Man ... you have your own business. You don't have to be out here putting up with this sh*t like I do."

I would then explain (again) that we are both living the lives that reflect the choices we have made. When he was done with his job, he would stop at the bar. Nothing "wrong" with that... but the cash flows the wrong way if you are wanting to make money.

When I was done with my jobs (yes, plural), I would go home and work on my internet business.

So if by "lucky" you mean working while others are at the bar ... or learning while others are sleeping... Yeah... I was one "lucky" guy!

Today... I have time to go to the bar (and the funds to not run up a tab)!

EDIT: And to clarify "work", I simply mean the effort and resources put in to creating the desired result. I used to work construction. THAT was "hard work". I put in a lot of hours now but I LOVE what I do so it doesn't feel like "work".

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Tsnyder

15 years ago

Often when we take one line or word out of a report or
audio we focus on that subject to the exclusion of the
larger message.

I think that's what's transpired in this thread.

I think we can all agree on this... relative to Reese's proclamation on work...

All other things being equal... skill... knowledge.. etc... the person who works
harder to implement those things on a consistent daily basis will out perform
the person who doesn't... period.

All things be equal more work will produce more success.

I think that's what Reese is saying.

Yes... I can already hear it... all things aren't equal. of course
they aren't but at any given level they're close so working hard at
the smart things will produce greater results than not working hard at
the smart things.

Reese is just saying that no matter your skill level, knowledge or
experience you should work hard if you want to succeed on a grand
scale.

Tsnyder

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