This will increase opt-ins by up to 15% (now with pics)

by Coby
73 replies
Hey Warriors,

Today's tip is short and sweet but has shown to increase my own opt-ins by as much as 15%...

Only ask for the email address

Yup, that's it! Instead of asking for the name and email address just ask for the email address...

For some reason people are more apt to give up just their email & oftentimes people will put in a fake name anyways (like rodger rabbit)...

So if you have a squeeze page that you just can't seem to get to convert any higher then try this one little technique and you will likely be amazed at the difference it makes...

What are some things you have done to increase your opt-ins?
#15% #increase #list building #optins #squeeze pages
  • Profile picture of the author LooseChange
    In all honesty, yeah you might get more email addresses but if you're not getting email addresses that people actually bother with, you're just spinning your wheels.

    I believe that if your offer isn't strong enough to convert immediately, that should tell you something right there. Go back to the drawing board and work on perfecting the offer rather than chasing fairy dust.

    With email marketing, you're already at a 1-2% success rate. Using techniques that drop that rate even lower can be very costly for people who are using email services. To each his own but I'd rather have 10 solid leads than 1000 questionable leads.
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by LooseChange View Post

      In all honesty, yeah you might get more email addresses but if you're not getting email addresses that people actually bother with, you're just spinning your wheels.

      I believe that if your offer isn't strong enough to convert immediately, that should tell you something right there. Go back to the drawing board and work on perfecting the offer rather than chasing fairy dust.

      With email marketing, you're already at a 1-2% success rate. Using techniques that drop that rate even lower can be very costly for people who are using email services. To each his own but I'd rather have 10 solid leads than 1000 questionable leads.
      Not sure what you're saying?

      Fake emails are something that happens regardless of the squeeze page... I personally always send the download to their email, so fake email? No download Problem solved....

      But you GOTTA get them to opt-in first The rest is easy from there...

      P.S.
      Did I mention I tested and this has proven to increase my opt-in by 15%? (that's an extra 150 opt-ins per 1000 visitors )
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      • Profile picture of the author keithoz88
        Hi Coby,

        You said "I personally always send the download to their email, so fake email? No download Problem solved...."
        Do you use a certain software to do this? free or paid?
        I like your idea of hitting them with a OTO, trying straight away to convert them into buyers. Can you tell me what software you personally use for this?

        Thanks mate,
        Keith
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        • Profile picture of the author Coby
          Originally Posted by keithoz88 View Post

          Hi Coby,

          You said "I personally always send the download to their email, so fake email? No download Problem solved...."
          Do you use a certain software to do this? free or paid?
          I like your idea of hitting them with a OTO, trying straight away to convert them into buyers. Can you tell me what software you personally use for this?

          Thanks mate,
          Keith
          Hey Keith,

          Yes sir I use Imnica Mail (Imnica Mail - Award Winning Email Marketing Service) as my autoresponder and I have the download sent to them in the welcome email.

          As for the offer after opt-in, you can just use a normal html editor (like kompozer) to create the special offer page.

          Cheers
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by LooseChange View Post

      With email marketing, you're already at a 1-2% success rate. Using techniques that drop that rate even lower can be very costly for people who are using email services. To each his own but I'd rather have 10 solid leads than 1000 questionable leads.
      I can promise you my success rate is much higher than 1-2% with my email marketing...

      And this technique doesn't drop the rate, I have the proof

      But to each their own
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      • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
        Until you test the e-mail only vs. name + e-mail for your
        own list and tracking the numbers all the way through
        your sales process, you don't know if it's a good or bad
        thing.

        Each niche and list is different so you need to TEST, TEST,
        TEST.

        For example, for a client I tested asking for FOUR pieces of
        information (name, e-mail, phone and location) vs asking
        for just two details (name and e-mail).

        LOGICALLY, you'd expect the visitor-to-subscriber opt-in
        rate to be lower on the four data field opt-in form. But
        it wasn't. In fact, the opt-in rate was virtually unchanged.

        By asking for more details up front, it was possible to
        segment the list more effectively and get higher sales
        in the funnel later.

        There's no ONE rule that fits ALL lists and markets.

        Lesson: Test for your OWN list and get your own figures
        to prove whether it works for your business.

        Dedicated to mutual success,

        Shaun
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        • Profile picture of the author Easy Marketer
          If you subscribe to Coby no matter what you put into the box you get someone who is incredibly good at communicating and this alone builds buyers. He answers emails quickly and efficiently. This is lacking in most marketers online. The content and his dedication to being helpful is unsurpassed in my humble opinion.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by LooseChange View Post

      I believe that if your offer isn't strong enough to convert immediately, that should tell you something right there. Go back to the drawing board and work on perfecting the offer rather than chasing fairy dust.
      I've heard before that customers often visit a site 7 times before they buy anything.

      I believe that if your offer isn't strong enough to convert immediately, that should tell you something right there
      Yes. It tells me they may not want to buy immediately, that's one of the main reasons for getting their details so you can further market to them.

      Some people will buy there and then, some won't. It's not just the offer page that decides that, it's the individual visiting the offer page. No matter how great your offer page is, not everyone will buy it immediately. Everyone see's and thinks differently.

      You need a good offer page and the ability to collect their details. Not only that, you then have their details to offer them other products in the future.

      I'm not getting into the name and email or just email arguement but saying the only buyers worth having are ones that buy immediately, is leaving a lot of cash on the table.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
    I think he is saying that if the lead doesn't trust you enough (or not motivated enough) to drop their name into the form as well then perhaps they aren't that great of a lead to begin with. The problem is elsewhere.

    I thought last time you were saying the importance of getting paying leads, now you only want an email address to boost numbers?
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by Fraggler View Post

      I think he is saying that if the lead doesn't trust you enough (or not motivated enough) to drop their name into the form as well then perhaps they aren't that great of a lead to begin with. The problem is elsewhere.

      I thought last time you were saying the importance of getting paying leads, now you only want an email address to boost numbers?
      Yep, then you convert them to buyers... and this is when I get their first name

      Although buyers are always best and obviously the preference freebie list have value too... Mainly in the instant chance to make them a "buyer" with an OTO...

      I guess I should say, this one way to "find the buyers" and put them on the correct list quickly...

      If I had a constant flow of buyers I could ignore the freebie lists altogether, unfortunately I'm not yet that lucky
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  • Profile picture of the author Zach Crawley
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by zachcrawley View Post

      I've heard of doing this, but it's better to address the people in the e-mail by the first names and without getting their name, you can't do that.
      You can't do that if they put in a fake name either...

      Anyone with a list of at least 1k can take a look and I would bet a hundred dollar bill that you have some names that appear as "mickey mouse, IM scam, rodger rabbit, jo blo, etc"

      I can address them by name once they make a purchase and I get their first name...

      Besides people are onto the whole email personalization method - they know you are using an autoresponder (if you are in the IM niche) thus this is also why they put in the fake names...

      If you don't believe me I can show you screenshots of some fake names in my lists...

      I used to think the same thing (I gotta call them by name to make it more trusting) until I started seeing the names entered...

      But it's your business, what do I know :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author Zach Crawley
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        • Profile picture of the author Coby
          Originally Posted by zachcrawley View Post

          If they're putting in fake names than I don't think they shouldn't be on your list anyway .. Not saying this is a bad idea, but has it's ups and downs.
          Zach your being kinda naive...

          First off, you can't stop someone from subscribing to your list and second you can't stop them from entering a fake name...

          However, if you aren't addressing them by that fake name (ie ' Hey Mickey Mouse here is your download) then you can still save face and convert them to a buyer, but if your calling them mickey mouse everytime you email them then your not likely to sell them anything...

          Not to be a jerk, but your status says "wannabee"...

          Well known warriors who preach AND use this "email only" technique:
          • Micheal Cowles
          • Anthony Tilley
          • Sean Storey
          All three of these guys have HUGE lists and make TONS of money from that list...

          Who are you more likely to believe? Theory or Results?

          It's the content and the value you provide in the emails that keep them opening, not rather or not you personalize it...

          Talk to me after 5,000 subscribers and we'll see if you still believe as firmly in the email personalization...

          I respect your opinion. Just my two cents...
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          • Profile picture of the author Zach Crawley
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            • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
              Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

              Don't judge the e-mail only vs. name + e-mail debate
              based just on experiences within the IM niche.

              For example, in the IM niche a lot of subscribers know
              how autoresponders work and some people like to have
              a bit of fun by entering in fake names on opt-in forms.
              Exactly! Even in the IM niche it can be different too.

              If youre building a list w/ safelists, they are new and dont understand ARs yet. Names may help that source have better profits.

              There are very few absolutes.

              Originally Posted by zachcrawley View Post

              Didn't have to get all personal. Like I said, I'm not knocking the idea.
              Don't you love people who do that?

              Garrie
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          • Profile picture of the author Rhia
            Originally Posted by Coby View Post

            First off, you can't stop someone from subscribing to your list and second you can't stop them from entering a fake name...

            However, if you aren't addressing them by that fake name (ie ' Hey Mickey Mouse here is your download) then you can still save face and convert them to a buyer, but if your calling them mickey mouse everytime you email them then your not likely to sell them anything...

            Not to be a jerk, but your status says "wannabee"...

            Well known warriors who preach AND use this "email only" technique:
            • Micheal Cowles
            • Anthony Tilley
            • Sean Storey
            All three of these guys have HUGE lists and make TONS of money from that list...

            Who are you more likely to believe? Theory or Results?

            It's the content and the value you provide in the emails that keep them opening, not rather or not you personalize it...

            Talk to me after 5,000 subscribers and we'll see if you still believe as firmly in the email personalization...

            I respect your opinion. Just my two cents...

            I completely 100% agree with Coby. Before getting in to IM I did compliant emailing for companies that their lists were in the millions of subscribers. I did this for 5 years and even though I had everyone's name, address, IP etc, I never used names in any of our mailings and it didn't hurt conversions at all.

            Rhia
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  • Profile picture of the author Coby
    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

    What impact does this have on conversions though? Have you tested that?

    That would tell you the overall net impact on bottom line. Is it up or down? I'm not interested in just collecting more email addresses for vanity purposes (though I suppose its useful if you intend to mass-adswap your list with others).
    That would depend on your own funnel...

    But common sense tells you the bigger the audience the bigger probability of a higher response (ie- more sales).

    I'm not sure how adding more prospects to your list wouldn't improve conversions for your bottom line?

    But I can guarantee you that getting 15% more opt-ins has definitely NOT HURT MY BUSINESS

    P.S. I swap once a week max
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

      There are definite advantages to using a first name, especially outside of IM. Many people really believe that you are sending them a one to one personal email and they appreciate it and buy from you. That's the whole reason that using first names got popular in the first place: it helps relationship build.

      For all you know, your not using first names could be losing you money.
      I agree with this 100%

      I should have been more clear. This is working for me in the IM niche.

      I would never do this in other niches. In fact in my niches outside of IM I ALWAYS get first name because yes they really think the email is to them...

      See, the IM niche is funny though, it's a lot different animal. Most people in the IM niche have some clue what's going on and many people on are lots of IM lists.

      Thanks Chris!
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    • Profile picture of the author AdwordsMogul
      Originally Posted by Coby View Post

      l...

      But common sense tells you the bigger the audience the bigger probability of a higher response (ie- more sales).

      ...
      This is where common sense may fail.

      The statement is not completely true.

      This can only apply if the audience is targeted.

      Also...

      Even though people put in fake names, I think personalization works better.

      For one thing, when you see your name in the title, it lets you know you actually opted in.
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  • Profile picture of the author lerxtjr
    Yeah, I tend to side with Coby. It "used to be" that if you got first names, you had a better chance of getting an "open" on an email send if you get their name in the subject line and a better reply rate or participation rate if you have their first name in the actual email. But, now it's more about having your content stand out...whether or not you add the recipient's first name or not.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jkhurramov
    You can send them messages with or without names. I think picking up their names won't harm.
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  • Profile picture of the author terrencewan
    I do agreed with your point of view,
    but to a certain extends.

    You may gain more subscribers,
    but the chances of them buying
    may be lower, as they do not use
    "much" effort to subscribe to your list.

    As for adding a name,
    the subscrbers may be more
    serious and converting them to become
    a buyers may be higher or easier.

    Sometime i even email to my list
    to call them to unsubscribe,
    to me, if they don't buy anything,
    i am loosing money to 'feed' them,
    why should i do that?
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by terrencewan View Post

      I do agreed with your point of view,
      but to a certain extends.

      You may gain more subscribers,
      but the chances of them buying
      may be lower, as they do not use
      "much" effort to subscribe to your list.

      As for adding a name,
      the subscrbers may be more
      serious and converting them to become
      a buyers may be higher or easier.

      Sometime i even email to my list
      to call them to unsubscribe,
      to me, if they don't buy anything,
      i am loosing money to 'feed' them,
      why should i do that?
      I think you may be missing the point... It's about making it as easy as possible for the person to get on your list...

      What your saying is "if they don't want to work that hard"...

      That's like taking the drive-thru out at McDonald's because "if they don't want to walk in to eat then I don't want them in my store.."

      Why make someone work harder than they have to? People are lazy! Cater to people's needs and you will reap the benefits!

      Go through your list and look at the names... come back and tell me what you find, you might be surprised...
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  • Profile picture of the author adribabe
    Good idea.
    To increase opt-ins I've began offering a free Ontario motorcycle (my niche) magazine subscription. One winner will be announced in every email sent out. Luckily, there is a very good, full colour full page free motorcycle magazine here in the province which has just started up, so I just sign-up the winner.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ian Varnava
    I tend to agree with the OP as well. Lately (as in for the last few months) I've been capturing e-mails only, without names, and I've noticed an increase in opt-ins, though I don't have any concrete percentages or anything to share with you at this point in time.

    It also depends on the niche. For the most part, everyone, even the most technically novice, understand that the whole 'name' jig is done by an automated means. It's not like the newsletter author sits there and personally sends an e-mail to everyone, typing their name one by one.

    So, whether the e-mail starts with "Hey John Smith The Third", or just "Hey", it doesn't really make much of a difference. It may in some niches, but the fact that it doesn't make a difference is especially true in the IM niche.

    To those who're making comments such as "if they're putting in a fake name then they probably shouldn't be on your list anyway"... you need a reality check. I have rarely used my real name in an opt-in form in my 15 years on the 'net, and I can almost guarantee you that a majority of your subscribers (if you have any) are currently subscribed to your list(s) under pseudonymous. Of course, neither of us would be able to prove that argument because you're not going to show up at every single one of your subscribers' residence and ask for a valid photo ID... and as for me, I'm not crazy enough to worry about that type of stuff.

    The bottom line is this:

    It's your content, your track record, your reputation... ultimately your relationship with your subscribers which gets people to open your emails or not. It has nothing to do with whether you're calling them Johnny or Hey Dude.

    You can have all the first and last names in the world, you can even have their Zip Code if it makes you happy... but if you're sending crap to your list, you can believe me Johnny ain't gonna give 2 sh*ts that you called out his name with so much love in the subject line.
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by Ian Varnava View Post

      So, whether the e-mail starts with "Hey John Smith The Third", or just "Hey", it doesn't really make much of a difference. It may in some niches, but the fact that it doesn't make a difference is especially true in the IM niche.

      To those who're making comments such as "if they're putting in a fake name then they probably shouldn't be on your list anyway"... you need a reality check. I have rarely used my real name in an opt-in form in my 15 years on the 'net, and I can almost guarantee you that a majority of your subscribers (if you have any) are currently subscribed to your list(s) under pseudonymous. Of course, neither of us would be able to prove that argument because you're not going to show up at every single one of your subscribers' residence and ask for a valid photo ID... and as for me, I'm not crazy enough to worry about that type of stuff.

      The bottom line is this:

      It's your content, your track record, your reputation... ultimately your relationship with your subscribers which gets people to open your emails or not. It has nothing to do with whether you're calling them Johnny or Hey Dude.

      You can have all the first and last names in the world, you can even have their Zip Code if it makes you happy... but if you're sending crap to your list, you can believe me Johnny ain't gonna give 2 sh*ts that you called out his name with so much love in the subject line.
      You get it!

      This is what I was trying to say

      I wasn't clear at first that I meant the IM niche. I have lists that have first name and I have lists that just have emails. My highest converting squeeze page has been converting as high as 64% and only asks for an email - is it also one of my most profitable lists...

      I used to believe very firmly to the first name thing until I went to switch autoresponders and noticed all the names that people had put in... Then I started researching the "email only" and noticed that many people that I knew had big responsive lists were using the same thing...

      Thanks Varnarva

      Originally Posted by Easy Marketer View Post

      If you subscribe to Coby no matter what you put into the box you get someone who is incredibly good at communicating and this alone builds buyers. He answers emails quickly and efficiently. This is lacking in most marketers online. The content and his dedication to being helpful is unsurpassed in my humble opinion.
      Wow, I'm blushing... Thank you very much for the kind words!
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        I've been doing this for over a year, after doing some testing of some of my niches. I compared opt-in rates and subsequent conversion-rates, of course.

        To me, this has now become a "no-brainer". I build bigger lists and get more income from them by not asking for people's names. Case closed.

        I suspect that some of the people who "don't like this idea" will be people who imagine that having your potential customers first names may somehow help your subsequent conversion-rate by being able to start your emails "Hi John", "Hi Mary", and so on. This is one of the things of which I did some interactive testing with people on my various lists, last year, and was slightly surprised how very many people told me that they really dislike that, because they think it makes you "sound like an insurance salesman" (a phrase I heard often).

        It may be niche-dependent. Possibly in the sort of niches I don't touch ("MMO" and so on) it might work. But not for me.

        So I'm firmly and clearly on the OP's side, and I'm now earning more money because I don't ask for their names.
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  • Profile picture of the author omk
    Yep. I've done this too. It always converts well. Because people are averse to providing so much info.






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    • Profile picture of the author Fatiana
      Coby, I agree. Giving a prospect one less thing to do makes sense to me. I personally like it more when I only have to enter the email address even though I have entered my name on lists hundreds of times and did not mind it.

      Make it easier for them to sign up = a longer list. It's a numbers game and makes lots of sense.
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      • Profile picture of the author Coby
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        I've been doing this for over a year, after doing some testing of some of my niches. I compared opt-in rates and subsequent conversion-rates, of course.

        To me, this has now become a "no-brainer". I build bigger lists and get more income from them by not asking for people's names. Case closed.

        I suspect that some of the people who "don't like this idea" will be people who imagine that having your potential customers first names may somehow help your subsequent conversion-rate by being able to start your emails "Hi John", "Hi Mary", and so on. This is one of the things of which I did some interactive testing with people on my various lists, last year, and was slightly surprised how very many people told me that they really dislike that, because they think it makes you "sound like an insurance salesman" (a phrase I heard often).

        It may be niche-dependent. Possibly in the sort of niches I don't touch ("MMO" and so on) it might work. But not for me.

        So I'm firmly and clearly on the OP's side, and I'm now earning more money because I don't ask for their names.
        Thanks Alexa! Many people don't realize that salesman in general have wore out the name thing (I spent many years as many different types of salesman) and they don't fall for the non so obvious subtle sales tactics...

        In fact people are pretty good at sniffing that out ... (blame it on the insurance guys... I was one of those once too )

        Originally Posted by omk View Post

        Yep. I've done this too. It always converts well. Because people are averse to providing so much info.
        Yup, get them on then build the trust

        Originally Posted by Fatiana View Post

        Coby, I agree. Giving a prospect one less thing to do makes sense to me. I personally like it more when I only have to enter the email address even though I have entered my name on lists hundreds of times and did not mind it.

        Make it easier for them to sign up = a longer list. It's a numbers game and makes lots of sense.
        So have I but I am lazy too and one less thing to type to get my freebie is just that much sweeter
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Besides people are onto the whole email personalization method - they know you are using an autoresponder (if you are in the IM niche) thus this is also why they put in the fake names...
    Not always true. New people don't always know. I still get email replies where people think I personally wrote to them. Have had some ask how I have the time to do it.

    The thing is to test what makes more money over-all. More opt-ins without names or less opt-ins with names.

    Some tests say the name in the subject increases opens too.

    Try asking for email, then on the next page ask for the name.

    As to the fake name scenarios, they are few and far between. Using personalization when someone uses a fake name doesn't make me look bad.


    Garrie
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

      Not always true. New people don't always know. I still get email replies where people think I personally wrote to them. Have had some ask how I have the time to do it.

      The thing is to test what makes more money over-all. More opt-ins without names or less opt-ins with names.

      Some tests say the name in the subject increases opens too.

      Try asking for email, then on the next page ask for the name.

      As to the fake name scenarios, they are few and far between. Using personalization when someone uses a fake name doesn't make me look bad.


      Garrie
      Garrie
      Go look at your list right now...

      Go look at the names section...

      Then read the comments by those above such as Alexa and Varnarva...

      Do you seriously think it really honestly makes a difference if the email says "Hey" or if it says "Hey John"...

      and you don't think it will look bad if they put in a fake name....

      consider this one "Hey Sh**Face"?...

      Then go check out some of Mike Cowles stuff and see his take on it...

      Then Anthony Tilley...

      Then Sean Storey...

      Oh, another one Keith Dougherty...

      But maybe it's still 1999?

      You have to realize that spammers realized this was working... Gotta any spam emails with your name in the subject??

      Your saying test and see what works! I Have! I Am! IT DOES! Are you testing?

      Grow and adapt - it's 2011
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      • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
        Don't judge the e-mail only vs. name + e-mail debate
        based just on experiences within the IM niche.

        For example, in the IM niche a lot of subscribers know
        how autoresponders work and some people like to have
        a bit of fun by entering in fake names on opt-in forms.

        There are some markets outside the small universe of
        Internet Marketing where they are less familiar with
        how autoresponders work and they happily enter real
        names (though some fakes as well).

        Until you test your list in your market don't accept
        dogma from either side of this debate on the forum.

        Instead - let your list members tell you what works
        best - via a simple test.

        Otherwise, it's just untested and unproven opinion.

        Dedicated to mutual success,

        Shaun
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        • Profile picture of the author jficarro
          Yes, that's what I was saying. The IM niche is almost a different animal, especially if you're dealing with more seasoned (or should I say "jaded" markets).

          The niche I tested (inadvertently) the other day was not in the IM niche and is generally a pretty responsive list. But when I personalized the emails, the results were dramatically different.
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      • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
        Originally Posted by Coby View Post

        Go look at your list right now...

        Go look at the names section...
        I have and do. I have very few fake names.

        Then read the comments by those above such as Alexa and Varnarva...
        Point? Is that proof of something?

        Do you seriously think it really honestly makes a difference if the email says "Hey" or if it says "Hey John"...
        I said it could. I didn't say it did. I used my words carefully. Unlike you, I didn't make any absolutes.

        I also corrected your absolute state of not everyone knows it's automated. I know that for a fact because of the replies I get.

        and you don't think it will look bad if they put in a fake name....

        consider this one "Hey Sh**Face"?...
        I know that the few who have that happen to them, it wont make a difference. Statistically, they aren't buyers to start with.

        Did you never think of that?

        Then go check out some of Mike Cowles stuff and see his take on it...

        Then Anthony Tilley...

        Then Sean Storey...

        Oh, another one Keith Dougherty...
        Different markets. Different targets. Different marketers.

        What works for one person may not work for another. A lot of different factors determine what works. It's good to look at them for ideals but not blindly follow.

        But maybe it's still 1999?
        :rolleyes:

        You have to realize that spammers realized this was working... Gotta any spam emails with your name in the subject??
        Actually, no. I don't. Their goes that theory of yours.

        Your saying test and see what works! I Have! I Am! IT DOES! Are you testing?

        Grow and adapt - it's 2011
        Umm. Don't act like you know me or how I market.

        Garrie
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

      The thing is to test what makes more money over-all. More opt-ins without names or less opt-ins with names.
      ^^^^^ This ... exactly.

      I tested extensively in each of 4 different niches in 2010, and - as explained above - I make more money, overall, by not asking for their names.

      I have 4 other unrelated niches for which I haven't tested this, but I'm attracting broadly the same customer demographic with all my marketing, so I decided also to apply the findings of the four tested niches to my other four, and now I don't ask for their names in those either. I'm not advising anyone else that they should necessarily do the same.

      But as Coby and I (and yourself, now, Garrie) are saying, people should definitely test for themselves. In my opinion, a common mistake people make is to assume without testing that they'll do better getting people's names and addressing them by name. I did that, myself, for a while, until I found out that it was wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author jficarro
    Maybe it depends on the niche. I agree that email only would probably pull larger numbers, but sending out personalized emails to people certainly gets better results.

    Possibly, getting the original sign ups with just an email, then at some point getting them to actually give a name and segmenting the list would be best.

    I just converted a clients list into a professional autoresponder and used the [name] feature (of course) in the last two mail outs. He literally called me because of the difference it made. His conversion (on a relatively small list) was outstanding.

    I just think an email that says "hey James, here's something you may be interested in" is going to pull better than "hey friend .... "

    But, like I said, maybe just for the initial build... the email only would be a good idea, then at some point, after building a little trust, give them a reason to sign up with a name.
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  • Profile picture of the author rkz0121
    I tried this recently and I found it does work pretty well. I guess it's easier to do but people also feel like they're not giving away as much revealing information.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lea Karana
    Originally Posted by Coby View Post

    Hey Warriors,

    Today's tip is short and sweet but has shown to increase my own opt-ins by as much as 15%...

    Only ask for the email address

    Yup, that's it! Instead of asking for the name and email address just ask for the email address...

    For some reason people are more apt to give up just their email & oftentimes people will put in a fake name anyways (like rodger rabbit)...

    So if you have a squeeze page that you just can't seem to get to convert any higher then try this one little technique and you will likely be amazed at the difference it makes...

    What are some things you have done to increase your opt-ins?
    Very interesting
    99.9 percent of the time i use a fake name, or to help me track where this email came from i put in the name box the name of the site.

    Lea
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  • Profile picture of the author Nad32
    I'll give that a try.

    Originally Posted by Coby View Post

    Hey Warriors,

    Today's tip is short and sweet but has shown to increase my own opt-ins by as much as 15%...

    Only ask for the email address

    Yup, that's it! Instead of asking for the name and email address just ask for the email address...

    For some reason people are more apt to give up just their email & oftentimes people will put in a fake name anyways (like rodger rabbit)...

    So if you have a squeeze page that you just can't seem to get to convert any higher then try this one little technique and you will likely be amazed at the difference it makes...

    What are some things you have done to increase your opt-ins?
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Another consideration is the format of the emails you send.

    Paul Myers (hope I spelled correctly) sends a newsletter format. A name, more than likely, wouldn't help.

    People who send pitches that are to appear as a personal email, the name may help.

    It's never a this or that. It's a depends.

    Garrie
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    • Profile picture of the author Vanessa Reece
      I'm subscribed to a lot of email lists in the IM niche. I use my first name. I don't like signing up with just an email. I don't want to feel like a number even if I am. I like getting those emails saying "Hi Vanessa" and I'm more inclined to buy when I feel something is a little more personalized (if it's something I want and need.)

      I can't be the only one in the world who does this - even knowing that I'm on an autoresponder?

      I get the point Cody, but for me I like to also think like an interested subscriber, and like Garrie, I've had people email me back from a messages I've personalized. Those people end up turning up on my Facebook, twitter, linkedin - because of the relationship built from that email.

      I'm all for testing what works with different things. I'm just explaining my pov as a one person who also subscribes to IM lists and my experience so far with my own different lists to date.

      V
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  • Profile picture of the author newbie365
    Who cares! If someone is serious about what they're asking for by opting in, they can at least give their name. Plus, when it comes to mailing.. Using the leads name shows that your being more personal with them and will tend to change the mood for the better.
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by newbie365 View Post

      Who cares! If someone is serious about what they're asking for by opting in, they can at least give their name. Plus, when it comes to mailing.. Using the leads name shows that your being more personal with them and will tend to change the mood for the better.
      In a perfect world this theory would work...
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  • Profile picture of the author tbsweet52
    It all depends on the niche and your product. If you are like everyone else trying to sell "make money" products, sure only ask for email. But if you offer a helpful service, and you want a way to contact people other than email and build relationships, ask for more. I ask for name, email, and phone. Never had a problem.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brendan Vraibel
      It's sort of like the single vs. double opt in arguement. I do agree with Coby though, if they are on your list you have a shot to sell to them, if they aren't then you don't.

      I've never tested something like this but it would be easy for me to believe that someone only asking for a name and single opt in would have a lot more subscribers, thus a chance to make more sales than those with email + name plus double opt in.

      I know I'm not explaining myself great but I hope that makes sense.
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      • Profile picture of the author Coby
        Originally Posted by B and B View Post

        It's sort of like the single vs. double opt in arguement. I do agree with Coby though, if they are on your list you have a shot to sell to them, if they aren't then you don't.

        I've never tested something like this but it would be easy for me to believe that someone only asking for a name and single opt in would have a lot more subscribers, thus a chance to make more sales than those with email + name plus double opt in.

        I know I'm not explaining myself great but I hope that makes sense.
        Actually you broke it down perfect and I think you summed it up best with this line "...if they are on your list you have a shot to sell to them, if they aren't you don't."

        That was the idea behind the OP, more subscribers = more opportunities
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  • Profile picture of the author Coby
    Everyone is saying test...

    Then those that HAVE tested it come and say it works....

    Then those that haven't are saying it doesn't work...

    Then I got this email from one of my subscribers...



    I have also said numerous times that once they purchase I capture their name and segment them to the buyers list...

    This is very easy to test... Next time you send a broadcast send two versions, nearly all autoresponders allow this...

    another thing to test (which this is really what the OP was about)... asking for just the email address... It's easy to test... If it doesn't improve opt-in THEN STOP DOING IT!!

    General email marketing theory (my own proven results) tells you more opt-ins equals more results...

    If you are good at email marketing why wouldn't you want more people receiving your emails?

    To Zach: I was not getting personal, I'm trying to make you realize I was once in the exact spot as you believing the exact thing... But until you have enough subscribers or have tested the opt-in it's not really a good idea to say "this works better"...

    And it also it very funny how people are saying things like "well if they won't give your their name they wont buy, or those people aren't buyers anyway... or fake names won't buy anyways"... Your right a fake name wont buy if you call them "Jerkface" everytime you send an email...

    You would think the numerous responses saying "I always use a fake name" would make you realize it... Or maybe the seasoned marketers saying "I've tested it (in Alexa's case FOUR NICHES)...

    But end the end it's really up to you... It's working for me, it's working for Alexa, It's working for other marketers that I follow and trust... But maybe it's just fluke...

    Cheers
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    • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
      Originally Posted by Coby View Post

      Then those that haven't are saying it doesn't work...
      You must be reading a different thread because I didn't see a single person say it didn't work. Much less say they it didn't work and they didn't test it. I did see a few people give opinions but mainly they said to test and see which makes more money.

      Maybe you are upset because everyone didn't stroke your ego by thanking you.

      *shrugs*

      About testing...

      I tested my highest converting squeeze page for safelists and the one with email tested higher. It was only by a few opt-ins (I stopped it after 100 people opted in). Yet another one, without the email was higher. Once again, only by a few. Both on the same safelists.

      Result? I can not say do this for higher opt-ins. I can, however, say test this.

      As far as the image, the underlined part does not prove anything.

      They don't like doing it but I don't mind. What people say and what they do or will not do doesn't always match.

      You made a claim that was false.

      Your OP was about name only increasing opt-ins but an increase in opt-ins does not always mean an increase in sales.

      Some people do see higher open rates by personalizing the subject.

      Some people see higher clicks when they personalize emails.

      Some people see higher sales if they personalize sales letters from the email data.

      You mention getting the name after a sale and what some of us have been trying to get through is that putting the name on pre-sales emails might make more money than not doing it.

      More opt-ins does not always mean more sales.

      People should not take my word, your word, what they see others doing or what they think is correct. They should test each time and see which one really is.

      Garrie
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      • Profile picture of the author Coby
        Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

        As far as the image, the underlined part does not prove anything.
        Let's see, this is a person on my list - they only entered their email...

        They are also a proven buyer...

        This doesn't prove it's working on my list? My bad :rolleyes:
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        • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
          Originally Posted by Coby View Post

          Let's see, this is a person on my list - they only entered their email...

          They are also a proven buyer...

          This doesn't prove it's working on my list? My bad :rolleyes:
          :rolleyes:

          You must be dense.

          One person doesn't prove anything. You posted that persons email as some type of proof but it's not.

          For everyone you have without a name, I have one with.

          Garrie
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      • Profile picture of the author EdBryant
        I am going to try this. I was just at Shoemoney's site and it looks like he has taken your advice. I hear he is pretty successful. It can't hurt to see how it goes, its not like I have anything to lose.

        Thanks
        Ed
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        • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
          Originally Posted by Coby View Post

          Hey Garrie,

          Since the OP is about increasing conversions by not asking for an email I decided to post some more proof: (still eagerly awaiting yours)



          55% and 63% is pretty good wouldn't you agree?

          Cheers
          Have the two pages received traffic from exactly the
          same traffic source?

          The first one is from a Brian [blanked out] AdSwap and
          the other is from a Grayson AdSwap.

          If the traffic sources are different, then how do you know
          that the conversion rate increase is due to using e-mail
          only instead of a difference in the quality of the traffic
          (or a combination of the two)?

          Also, was the split-test conducted at the same time
          so you alternate page A and page B?

          Where are the figures on how each of these versions
          impact on sales and profits?

          Dedicated to mutual success,

          Shaun
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          .

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          • Profile picture of the author Coby
            Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

            Have the two pages received traffic from exactly the
            same traffic source?

            The first one is from a Brian [blanked out] AdSwap and
            the other is from a Grayson AdSwap.

            If the traffic sources are different, then how do you know
            that the conversion rate increase is due to using e-mail
            only instead of a difference in the quality of the traffic
            (or a combination of the two)?

            Also, was the split-test conducted at the same time
            so you alternate page A and page B?

            Where are the figures on how each of these versions
            impact on sales and profits?

            Dedicated to mutual success,

            Shaun
            Hey Shaun,

            No, these screenshots are not from a split test. These are just from a squeeze page that uses the "email only" technique.

            They are also different traffic sources, the third one I posted is not from an adswap but is from a forum link.

            Before asking only for the email address I never even got close to the 50% conversion mark. I don't have results for that, although I might be able to find some from an older squeeze page if I dig through clixtrac.

            The one part is blanked out because I didn't want to put Brian's last name out there.

            Cheers,
            Coby
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        • Profile picture of the author Coby
          Originally Posted by EdBryant View Post

          I am going to try this. I was just at Shoemoney's site and it looks like he has taken your advice. I hear he is pretty successful. It can't hurt to see how it goes, its not like I have anything to lose.

          Thanks
          Ed
          Unfortunately I don't think he is taking "my" advice, but yes that is what he does...

          He was doing this wayyyy before I was but a good example nonetheless...
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  • Profile picture of the author moralde
    As a newcomer to listbuilding, I find this thread very informative. I think the only way to really settle this argument, like Coby said, would be to test it. So, I would assume that Coby might probably post something in a couple of months providing information on the efficacy of this method. The focus I suppose would be not necessarily on number of subscribers but on conversion.
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  • Profile picture of the author Coby
    Hey Garrie,

    Since the OP is about increasing conversions by not asking for an email I decided to post some more proof: (still eagerly awaiting yours)



    55% and 63% is pretty good wouldn't you agree?

    Cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
    Garrie,

    Remember when we used to have these very same discussions a few years back? And a few before that?

    Coby,

    You should be testing the quality of the leads you're getting - not just how many. In this I.M. niche, what works well today does not tomorrow. I have been down this road a few times and sometimes getting the name means higher conversions AND optins. Other times, no name seemed to grab me more subscribers.

    But if you give me a choice of a list with 1000 emails AND first names where I consistently covert (for example) 15% on a $47 pitch...

    Or a list of 10,000 emails only where the same offer converts at 1%, then I know which list I want.

    Much also depends on whether you are simply trying to build up a list to market "stuff" to them, or build a list for something specific. I have a service where I give away a free report which is custom to each subscriber. If they don't want to give me the info I require to fulfill this, well, they are not good prospects for me. They don't fit the purpose of this particular list.

    In other words, there isn't always a "one size fits all" answer.

    Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

      Garrie,

      Remember when we used to have these very same discussions a few years back? And a few before that?

      Coby,

      You should be testing the quality of the leads you're getting - not just how many. In this I.M. niche, what works well today does not tomorrow. I have been down this road a few times and sometimes getting the name means higher conversions AND optins. Other times, no name seemed to grab me more subscribers.

      But if you give me a choice of a list with 1000 emails AND first names where I consistently covert (for example) 15% on a $47 pitch...

      Or a list of 10,000 emails only where the same offer converts at 1%, then I know which list I want.

      Much also depends on whether you are simply trying to build up a list to market "stuff" to them, or build a list for something specific. I have a service where I give away a free report which is custom to each subscriber. If they don't want to give me the info I require to fulfill this, well, they are not good prospects for me. They don't fit the purpose of this particular list.

      In other words, there isn't always a "one size fits all" answer.

      Mike
      I agree Mike... I didn't mean this as a one size fits all, it just kinda snowballed, lol.

      I have measures in place to capture their name once they are a buyer... I also still have IM lists that capture first name and email and I'm still consistently testing and I'm just sharing what is working for me...

      This is just one of those touchy subjects apparently

      Anyways, here is another shot showing 55% conversions:

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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Originally Posted by Coby View Post

    Hey Garrie,

    Since the OP is about increasing conversions by not asking for an email I decided to post some more proof: (still eagerly awaiting yours)



    55% and 63% is pretty good wouldn't you agree?

    Cheers
    Yes, that is what the OP is about. No one has said differt. What others, including myself, said it that it matters what makes the most and for people to test.

    You, for some reason, assumed we was saying you was wrong. Or atleast are acting like it. No one ever did though. Not once. Go back and read my first post. You will see that I *never* said you was wrong.

    FYI: Ad Swaps normally convert higher. Source traffic is always something else to consider when giving people advice.

    Now, for the last time.

    No one is saying you are wrong. No one is saying name only doesnt get as many opt-ins. People are saying it may convert less in sales. Not that it does, that it might. That people need to test and see what works for each list.


    Garrie

    P.S

    I did tell you the results of two of my tests.
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

      Yes, that is what the OP is about. No one has said differt. What others, including myself, said it that it matters what makes the most and for people to test.

      You, for some reason, assumed we was saying you was wrong. Or atleast are acting like it. No one ever did though. Not once. Go back and read my first post. You will see that I *never* said you was wrong.

      FYI: Ad Swaps normally convert higher. Source traffic is always something else to consider when giving people advice.

      Now, for the last time.

      No one is saying you are wrong. No one is saying name only doesnt get as many opt-ins. People are saying it may convert less in sales. Not that it does, that it might. That people need to test and see what works for each list.


      Garrie

      P.S

      I did tell you the results of two of my tests.
      Hey Garrie,

      I didn't mean to make it look like an attack on you, that was not my intentions.

      Yes, you TOLD me the results of your test :rolleyes:

      But seriously it's not for everyone... We can be showed and told and everything a dozens times, but in the end its really up to you to decide what to do in your business because only you know whats best for you and your life...

      Thanks for your debate Garrie

      I look forward to exchanging ideas again as I respect your opinion
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    This is just one of those touchy subjects apparently
    Not really.

    Its that people, new ones, would see your post and jump. Not thinking about other factors. That why we gave the other details and kept saying test. At least that's why I did.

    I learned years ago about saying absolutes.

    Garrie
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Yes, you TOLD me the results of your test
    I can't show the results because I split tested the page (with my custom software) and after the test, I deleted the software. It wasnt needed.

    My test was also done w/ cofirmed opt-in. I didn't count people if they didn't complete confirmation. The results might have been drastically different if it was single.


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  • Profile picture of the author Timothy Reuscher
    Coby, are you having your opt-ins to take more action by having them opt-in once more (a.k.a. double op-ins)?
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by Timothy Reuscher View Post

      Coby, are you having your opt-ins to take more action by having them opt-in once more (a.k.a. double op-ins)?
      Yes, I have them take more action after opt-in, but I don't make them opt-in again (kinda defeats the "lazy" theory)... but lets not turn this into a single vs. double opt-in debate
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  • Profile picture of the author tdj
    Personally, I like the fact that I don't have to give a name but only the e-mail address when I sign up for something. Psychologically, it makes me feel as if I won't be pressured into something later on, even though I know for a fact that I will receive offers in the future. If I like and trust the person and the reputation is there, I will buy the product or service from them if I think it will help me.

    Todd
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by tdj View Post

      Personally, I like the fact that I don't have to give a name but only the e-mail address when I sign up for something. Psychologically, it makes me feel as if I won't be pressured into something later on, even though I know for a fact that I will receive offers in the future. If I like and trust the person and the reputation is there, I will buy the product or service from them if I think it will help me.

      Todd
      You know, I have heard others say this as well. But to me, it's just as easy to put in a fake name as it is to use a fake email, or fake phone number.

      So aside from the extra, say, 2.2 seconds it takes me to put in a name, to ME there's not much difference whether I do or don't.

      But that's just me.

      As it is, I use a central Gmail address for ALL lists I sign up for. So if I don't feel like getting smacked with offers today, I simply don't check that email box. But if I have a few minutes to spare, or want to see the "latest and greatest" products being released, I peruse the email box at my leisure.

      Simple solution for me...
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  • Profile picture of the author Ian Varnava
    This may be a little off-topic, but...

    Coby, I understand you're presenting your 'screenshots' with much pride. However, I wouldn't believe in screenshots so much I were you.










    Just kidding...
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by Ian Varnava View Post

      This may be a little off-topic, but...

      Coby, I understand you're presenting your 'screenshots' with much pride. However, I wouldn't believe in screenshots so much I were you.
      Just kidding...
      lol, your good

      Yes, I realize they could be easily seen as fake, but I am doing good to get the red arrows kinda straight, lol.

      But yes, ppl take the screenshots for what there worth. They could easily be fake.
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  • Profile picture of the author Luffe
    I actually dont even require people to enter their names, people dont wanna fill out alot of fields to join the list. But maybe i should, as they are more likely to read the mailings i send, if they see their name in the mail.
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  • Very interesting thread guys.

    What makes it more interesting is that there have been a couple of WSOs recently that enable you to use Facebook profiles to opt in rather than your standard name/email. These claim massively higher conversion rates as well.

    Therefore it begs the question, do people care that much about what information they are giving out or are they just looking for the easiest method possible?
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    • Profile picture of the author Vanessa Reece
      Originally Posted by thesorcerersapprentice View Post

      Very interesting thread guys.

      What makes it more interesting is that there have been a couple of WSOs recently that enable you to use Facebook profiles to opt in rather than your standard name/email. These claim massively higher conversion rates as well.

      Therefore it begs the question, do people care that much about what information they are giving out or are they just looking for the easiest method possible?
      That's an excellent point. The facebook opt-in (well for me personally) is definitely a quick route to sign up for things. I'm not sure how that works from the list builder perspective though - because surely they see the name you've used on your facebook? Anyone know how this works?

      V
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    Nice tip, the lower amount of work required by your potential subscriber, the more they tend to do it
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by dagaul101 View Post

      Nice tip, the lower amount of work required by your potential subscriber, the more they tend to do it

      This ALSO means a LOT more work for you, the list owner, to convert these people (most likely freebie seekers who got on your list to get something for free) into buyers.

      Been down that road too. Yes, it can be done. It just takes longer and requires more effort.

      Sometimes slow and steady wins the race. If it take me longer to get more qualified - non-lazy - subscribers,with LESS work on my part, then so be it
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  • Profile picture of the author adribabe
    I tried a very basic popup for joomla similar to popup domination for wordpress to get email sign ins for a week on my site. Now i've modified to form to remove the HTML/TXT question, as well as the name question. We'll see how it goes a week from now!
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