Will I Piss Off PayPal by Doing THIS?

37 replies
Hey Warriors,

Today I heard something that caught my attention.

According to PayPal's ToS - is it OK to force the customer to optin to your list
before delivering their purchase?

Please no "vague" or "logical" answers, ONLY direct quotes from the ToS and the translation.

I reviewed all available material I could find and nowhere in the ToS it says anything about deliver digital goods...

I count on your help,
Thanks,
Igor
#paypal #piss #tos
  • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
    Originally Posted by igorhelpsyousucceed View Post

    Hey Warriors,

    Today I heard something that caught my attention.

    According to PayPal's ToS - is it OK to force the customer to optin to your list
    before delivering their purchase?

    Please no "vague" or "logical" answers, ONLY direct quotes from the ToS and the translation.

    I reviewed all available material I could find and nowhere in the ToS it says anything about deliver digital goods...

    I count on your help,
    Thanks,
    Igor
    Want to piss off your customers go ahead:rolleyes:
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3934722].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author herine
      Originally Posted by Regional Warrior View Post

      Want to piss off your customers go ahead:rolleyes:
      yes, this can definitely piss them off!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935858].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author tamarindcandy
      Originally Posted by Regional Warrior View Post

      Want to piss off your customers go ahead:rolleyes:
      This. More worrisome than potentially pissing off PayPal by far.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935871].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author LB
    It's been claimed here but I've never seen anything about it officially.

    Plenty of large companies have a registration process after ordering software for example.

    I always ask for the optin and include a link below if someone does not want to optin. If you sell the optin as a way to get updates and free bonuses as well as special offers most people will optin. Only about 5% choose not to.

    I know that's not a direct answer from the TOS, but my method seems to keep everyone happy without forcing anyone to optin who absolutely does not want to.
    Signature
    Tired of Article Marketing, Backlink Spamming and Other Crusty Old Traffic Methods?

    Click Here.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3934738].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Peter Livingston
      Paypal actually allows you to integrate your autoresponder to your account, so I do not see why they should be pissed off at all..
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3934752].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Igor Kheifets
    OK, so far no "official" answers here.

    Regarding your suggestions Luke, the thing is that I want absolute 100% of my customers to optin.

    Igor
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3934807].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
      Banned
      [DELETED]
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3934825].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

        I don't think I would accept anyone's interpretation of PayPal's TOS from someone in a forum.
        He ISN'T! He wants US to search for, and find, the applicable answer on paypals site!

        Why don't we check to see if it says anything about their checks being accepted by bank of america! This is about the same question.

        Steve
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3934985].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          He ISN'T! He wants US to search for, and find, the applicable answer on paypals site!

          Why don't we check to see if it says anything about their checks being accepted by bank of america! This is about the same question.

          Steve
          HI STEVE!!!!!

          How are YOU today!!!

          WHY DO YOU ALWAYS SPEAK TO PEOPLE LIKE THISSSS!!!!!!

          I bet you have HUGE trouble in public LIBRARIES!!!

          Bye for NOWWWWW!!!!!!

          (joke...)

          OP,

          I think Mikes nailed it, ask Paypal, they made up the TOS.
          Signature

          Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935005].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post


            I think Mikes nailed it, ask Paypal, they made up the TOS.
            I've been known to call a place several times and talk to several different people to find an adequate answer.
            Signature

            "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935023].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
              Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

              I've been known to call a place several times and talk to several different people to find an adequate answer.
              I'm not saying he'll get the answer straight away I just think he should get an answer, seeing as they made the TOS up.

              I've been known to ring up one particular hosting company and never get an adequate answer, I still haven't either, 4 years later. :p
              Signature

              Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935043].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author butcher57
      Originally Posted by igorhelpsyousucceed View Post

      OK, so far no "official" answers here.

      Regarding your suggestions Luke, the thing is that I want absolute 100% of my customers to optin.

      Igor
      Yes I agree with you, is always better.
      Signature

      Grow your Instagram followers organically with my Artificial Intelligence service

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935569].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Igor Kheifets
    I already called them up and they redirected me to a site at x.com which has no info about this ToS thing...

    That's why I came here in hope that maybe some folks have already tackled this problem and had the ToS quote available.

    Igor
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3934842].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    it's a dumb question.

    Why would paypal even KNOW, let alone care!

    Want to KNOW? OK!

    Paypal sends you LOTS of info after the sale, at least for members. You ARE allowed to use THAT!

    NOBODY cares if you collect PRIOR to the sale, though customers may be a little upset.

    You generally have to FORGET that info if the prospect hasn't given you permission, though reasonable permission is implied once they become a customer.

    STILL, if you are asking like this, I have to wonder how you will use the info.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3934967].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author VaultBoss
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      it's a dumb question.[...]
      Steve
      I beg to disagree - no question is ever dumb ... it only proves some people want to learn more about a topic.

      This is commendable ...

      Answers, on the other hand, might be dumb though .. sometimes ...

      I personally avoid answering questions that I don't know how to and rather try to find out the correct answers.

      PayPal's ToS in this matter, may or may not be allowing that particular salesflow. In any case, being concerned about breaking the ToS provisions is definitely a good topic to be discussed on WF, as many of us (if not all) use PayPal ... isn't it?

      Regarding the issue with the customer's details being recorded on a database ... through automated means ... that is very different.

      One could use PP's IPN or other ways to add the customers to a mailing list, which is perfectly legal, even without any other confirmation, because it is a seller-buyer type of relationship (a business one) ...
      ... however, once they (the customer) paid for an item -
      while I couldn't find the exact words yet -
      I also 'think' I saw it mentioned before as being against their ToS to force anything before the download.

      I will study the matter more and maybe find an answer.

      Meanwhile, an open discussion - if not on the actual ToS at least on how people do things - could benefit all warriors.

      Signature
      Sexy eMail Marketing Secrets «« Pimp YOUR eMails Into Sexiness ...
      Double Opens & CTR - Instantly!

      Steve Lorenzo's eMail Tips Daily «« Strange, Controversial, Crazy Stuff even, BUT - The Bleeding Edge 'Unfair' Advantage Over Your eMail Marketing Competition
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935039].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by VaultBoss View Post

        I beg to disagree - no question is ever dumb ... it only proves some people want to learn more about a topic.

        This is commendable ...

        Answers, on the other hand, might be dumb though .. sometimes ...

        I personally avoid answering questions that I don't know how to and rather try to find out the correct answers.

        PayPal's ToS in this matter, may or may not be allowing that particular salesflow. In any case, being concerned about breaking the ToS provisions is definitely a good topic to be discussed on WF, as many of us (if not all) use PayPal ... isn't it?

        Regarding the issue with the customer's details being recorded on a database ... through automated means ... that is very different.

        One could use PP's IPN or other ways to add the customers to a mailing list, which is perfectly legal, even without any other confirmation, because it is a seller-buyer type of relationship (a business one) ...
        ... however, once they (the customer) paid for an item -
        while I couldn't find the exact words yet -
        I also 'think' I saw it mentioned before as being against their ToS to force anything before the download.

        I will study the matter more and maybe find an answer.

        Meanwhile, an open discussion - if not on the actual ToS at least on how people do things - could benefit all warriors.

        OK, you DO have a point. Still, about the only place I have heard of such a thing is on things like here where they say free should mean free of even emal addresses. But that is because they are afraid of getting spammed, etc...

        BTW in the US there is a company called pannera...

        Company pleased with pay-what-you-want cafe | Business | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

        It's a shame everything can't run like that!

        Steve
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935474].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3934982].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
    Maybe check this thread here

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...responder.html

    Karan
    Signature
    Penalty Safe, Long Term, 100% Whitehat Backlinks
    Love your site? Then check out SafeSpokes!
    ~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_
    karan996@irchiver.com karan997@irchiver.com
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3934994].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author stuartpanter
    Paypal are a pain the a**, they have closed my accounts numerous times for no reason, and have cost me lost business on occasion
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935003].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Marcus C
    Originally Posted by igorhelpsyousucceed View Post

    Hey Warriors,

    Today I heard something that caught my attention.

    According to PayPal's ToS - is it OK to force the customer to optin to your list
    before delivering their purchase?

    Please no "vague" or "logical" answers, ONLY direct quotes from the ToS and the translation.

    I reviewed all available material I could find and nowhere in the ToS it says anything about deliver digital goods...

    I count on your help,
    Thanks,
    Igor
    No, but be careful you don't piss your customers off!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935038].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    Originally Posted by igorhelpsyousucceed View Post

    According to PayPal's ToS - is it OK to force the customer to optin to your list
    before delivering their purchase?
    If you did this without warning your buyers prior to purchase, you'd annoy a lot of customers - some of whom might well complain to PayPal.


    Frank
    Signature
    TOP TIP: To browse the forum like a Pro, select "View Classic" from the drop-down menu under your user name.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935302].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author redfieryheart
    out of ethics I think you may not want to do that. Get your own optin and start from there.
    Signature
    Offering Virtual Assistant Service
    Find more information about green energy, epimedium sagittatum and diabetes mellitus.


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935462].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Igor Kheifets
    OK, to set things straight:

    1. I called paypal and they did not give me the answer. They told me it's MY job to find the necessary info on the web.
    2. I don't care if I "annoy" my customers by doing what I want to do, I only care about not getting my paypal account frozen.
    3. Sofar nobody came up with an actual quote from the ToS prohibiting this activity and with so many replies that's a shame.

    Igor
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935499].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
      According to this lady, they close accounts if you do it...

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post3853074

      I've never really looked into it, as it isn't something I do personally.
      Signature
      'If you hear a voice within you say "you cannot paint," then by all means paint and that voice will be silenced.' Vincent Van Gogh.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935517].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by igorhelpsyousucceed View Post

      2. I don't care if I "annoy" my customers by doing what I want to do, I only care about not getting my paypal account frozen.
      Um...you don't think there's a chance of one leading to the other? :rolleyes:

      3. Sofar nobody came up with an actual quote from the ToS prohibiting this activity and with so many replies that's a shame.
      There are lots of things not specifically referenced in a company's TOS (especially when it doesn't impact on the actual provision of that service), that it wouldn't be wise to do in the normal course of business.

      Sometimes, you just need to use your common sense.


      Frank
      Signature
      TOP TIP: To browse the forum like a Pro, select "View Classic" from the drop-down menu under your user name.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935551].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by igorhelpsyousucceed View Post

      2. I don't care if I "annoy" my customers by doing what I want to do, I only care about not getting my paypal account frozen.
      One more suggestion Igor.

      If you bought something, had just paid for it, then the seller did something that pissed you off, what would you do and would you buy off them next time?

      It also doesn't make sense, you say this...

      the thing is that I want absolute 100% of my customers to optin.
      and then this...

      I don't care if I "annoy" my customers by doing what I want to do
      You can't have both.

      I'm concerned with p****g off my customers and my payment provider, why? Because if I piss off my customers I'll have an empty Paypal account with no cash in it to get frozen.
      Signature

      Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935990].message }}
  • I agree with Regional Warrior. If you have something extra to give for free then the customers may feel like you are going above and beyond. I think it depends on how you use it. Try to give a bonus related to the products they purchased. Make make a new customer an even happier customer.
    Signature
    How to Make a Website | FREE VIDEO TRAINING!!!!
    If you looking for an easy way to learn how to make a website enjoy my free Website Design Videos that can teach anybody by following my mouse!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935515].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Igor Kheifets
    OK, I guess I have to say this outloud...

    1. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE AN ACTUAL QUOTE FROM THE WRITTEN DOCUMENT THAT SAYS PAYPAL DOESN'T ALLOW ME TO FORCE MY BUYERS TO OPTIN BEFORE DELIVERING THE PRODUCT-DO NOT REPLY WITH YOUR "OPINION" ABOUT "ETHICS AND MARKETING"

    2. Yes, it IS smart to force them to optin and it IS good business. I'm not going to explain why, because this thread wasn't created for that purpose.

    From now, PLEASE, only helpful comments PLEASE!!!!


    Igor
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935566].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Didn't read the replies, so sorry if this has already been said.

      STRAIGHT FROM THE MOUTH OF PAYPAL - NO you can't force someone to opt-in to get their purchase.

      There is of course verbage you can use as a "get around" , but test that at your own discretion.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935582].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by igorhelpsyousucceed View Post

      1. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE AN ACTUAL QUOTE FROM THE WRITTEN DOCUMENT THAT SAYS PAYPAL DOESN'T ALLOW ME TO FORCE MY BUYERS TO OPTIN BEFORE DELIVERING THE PRODUCT-DO NOT REPLY WITH YOUR "OPINION" ABOUT "ETHICS AND MARKETING"
      Tough tits, Igor. You don't get to choose how anyone responds in a thread.

      You're welcome to do whatever you like in your business, but others will be reading this and might be interested in a range of opinions on the subject.


      Frank
      Signature
      TOP TIP: To browse the forum like a Pro, select "View Classic" from the drop-down menu under your user name.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935588].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Igor Kheifets
    So far the only helpful comments have been from Luke, Jeremy and SexyEmailMarketing guy...

    I didn't ask for your opinion about whether I should or should not do it for ethical reasons or business wise.

    I only asked if you've got any info about it concerning paypal's ToS...

    And I specifically asked not to waste my time with replies such as yours Frank...

    Anyway, I think I solved the problem by doing what Luke suggested.

    We'll see how it goes.

    Igor
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935643].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
      What was wrong with my reply lol

      I didn't bring ethics into it, I pointed you to some helpful information and I'm surprised to see my thanked count still at 403

      I decided to have a look on Google out of interest and this is what turned up:

      Forced opt-in may be kiss of death

      Wordpress Basics

      If you really want me to I'll contact PayPal business support here in the UK and ask them, but Jeremy has already confirmed it's not allowed.
      Signature
      'If you hear a voice within you say "you cannot paint," then by all means paint and that voice will be silenced.' Vincent Van Gogh.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935708].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Igor Kheifets
        Originally Posted by oneplusone View Post

        What was wrong with my reply lol

        I didn't bring ethics into it, I pointed you to some helpful information and I'm surprised to see my thanked count still at 403

        I decided to have a look on Google out of interest and this is what turned up:

        Forced opt-in may be kiss of death

        Wordpress Basics

        If you really want me to I'll contact PayPal business support here in the UK and ask them, but Jeremy has already confirmed it's not allowed.
        Apparently I missed your reply dude

        I'm sorry

        You've been thanked!

        Igor
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935799].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Paypal did answer you - you weren't smart enough to understand the answer.

          It's not up to Paypal to tell you how to run a business. However, when customers complain to Paypal about being forced to optin, Paypal will shut you down. You can't control whether a customer complains about your methods.

          Then you can come back here and demand the exact answers you want for why that happened. Good luck with that.

          kay
          Signature
          Be the person your dog thinks you are.

          Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world for one dog.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935918].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by igorhelpsyousucceed View Post

      So far the only helpful comments have been from Luke, Jeremy and SexyEmailMarketing guy...

      I didn't ask for your opinion about whether I should or should not do it for ethical reasons or business wise.

      I only asked if you've got any info about it concerning paypal's ToS...

      And I specifically asked not to waste my time with replies such as yours Frank...

      Anyway, I think I solved the problem by doing what Luke suggested.

      We'll see how it goes.

      Igor
      OK.

      Seeing as we've all wasted our time here, I'll tell you what I'd do.

      I like your product (or at least what the sales page says), I decide to buy.

      ....All good so far....

      Now I've paid, you won't let me have it unless I sign up to your list. OK, so this is what I think and what I do next when anyone else does this....

      Leave a fake email or sign up and unsubscibe as soon as I have the product.

      Sorry but that's what I'd do. That's also the reason some people responded with information you didn't find helpful.

      As I said earlier, ask Paypal if it's allowed, they made up the TOS.

      Then you go and test what works best.

      If that's going to make you get all angry and uptight, what else are we supposed to do?

      *Facepalm* Can someone explain to me why telling the OP to find out the info he needs about Paypals TOS, can be done from looking at Paypals TOS, is bad advice? :confused::rolleyes:
      Signature

      Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935760].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
    Will I Piss Off PayPal by Doing THIS?

    Man, I'm glad I read all the posts above before I replied to this thread.

    I was just about to post a link where this question was posted at PayPal and answered
    by their support team but after seeing the attitude of the OP he/she can find the answer for them self.

    Have a Great Day if you can!
    Michael
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935765].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author alex jones
    No way the customers can never be pissed off like this.
    Signature
    http://www.linkodir.com/
    http://true-finance.blogspot.com/
    Facebook//khalid_mohd108@hotmail.com
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935775].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author website12
    Banned
    It might back on sales not wise to do.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3935973].message }}

Trending Topics