Promise Me You Won't Do This - Vent Inside

85 replies
Someone bought one of my products, then returned it. Okay, that happens. Then this person sent an email explaining how they were having trouble getting a working list of one of the items as explained in my product (remember they got their money back but still have the product - it is an ebook). They asked me if I could help. They asked me to send my own private list of the item. I could not believe my eyes. The nerve!

Promise me after you return a digital product do not expect the product owner to provide customer service to you. Just plain RUDE!

* UPDATE * I now have the money from the returned product. Details below

Recap: Here's What Happened
1. Customer buys my clickbank product
2. ClickBank security department 'disapproves' of the transaction by my customer, and WITH NO NOTICE TO ME refunds the customer's money.
3. I check ClickBank report and note a refund that should not have been there AS THERE WAS NO EMAIL FROM CLICKBANK TELLING ME ABOUT THE REFUND as there has always been
4. I note my spreadsheet that product was refunded to that customer and forget all about it
5. A week later customer asks me to provide, gratis, a list of items related to the product.
6. I check my spreadsheet, note the product was refunded, get upset, calm down, send one line response - "You can get those items by following the instructions of page xx of the manual you returned."
7. Start this thread
8. Customer replies it wasn't him, it was ClickBank who did the refund.
9. Start support ticket with ClickBank and result is they decided purchase was fraudulent and did a refund - end of story as far as they are concerned.
10. I forward ClickBank decision email to customer with a request for the money.
11. Customer pays within hours and then sends email asking for the list of info AGAIN!
12. I remain calm, send the list. :rolleyes:

What should have happened, IMHO
1. Customer buys product.
2. ClickBank flags purchase as fraudulent, issues refund to customer and notifies me by email.
3. Customer notices refund, realizes I am being denied payment for a digital product he now owns, and contacts me for details on how to directly send me payment for my digital product.
4. Customer turns to page xx of manual and generates his own list of items related to the product.

Thanks for listening. I have learned a lot through this situation. I learned I don't want to continue to do business with ClickBank. I learned to track refund notifications, check against reports, and when things don't match up, contact the customer to see what's up. If flagging for fraudulent sales happens again, I will not hesitate to just immediately ask the customer for the payment directly.

May this never happen to you... and as soon as the bogus CDR is met, I am "SO OUTTA THERE!"

Diane
#digital product returns #inside #promise #vent
  • Profile picture of the author ray777
    Guess it takes all kinds to make the world go round
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    • Profile picture of the author James Sides
      Wow, that's certainly a lot of nerve.

      Please allow me to add to the list of DON'T's.

      Obviously I have my skype in my profile and so when people buy a product they have access to me. I WANT it that way.

      A few days back someone contacted me with some questions. I took 45 minutes of my very busy schedule to help them. As the questions continued I started to get a bit curious as to if they actually read my ebook so I recommended they re-read it.

      It was at that point they admitted they did indeed buy it but only read about 1/2 of it before contacting me.

      ALL of their questions were answered in the 2nd half of that book.

      I charge $65/hour for consults and gave this person 45 minutes of my time for free because I love helping but talk about being peeved.

      For goodness sake..at least go through a product before asking questions about it.

      Cheers!

      James
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      • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
        Originally Posted by Fenderkid View Post

        Obviously I have my skype in my profile and so when people buy a product they have access to me. I WANT it that way.

        I charge $65/hour for consults and gave this person 45 minutes of my time for free because I love helping but talk about being peeved.
        The "time vamps" gotta love 'em :p
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisMcDonald
    Originally Posted by Diane S View Post

    Someone bought one of my products, then returned it. Okay, that happens. Then this person sent an email explaining how they were having trouble getting a working list of one of the items as explained in my product (remember they got their money back but still have the product - it is an ebook). They asked me if I could help. They asked me to send my own private list of the item. I could not believe my eyes. The nerve!

    Promise me after you return a digital product do not expect the product owner to provide customer service to you. Just plain RUDE!
    WOW, the cheek! Did you manage to keep your calm in your response back?
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    • Profile picture of the author Diane S
      Originally Posted by ChrisMcDonald View Post

      WOW, the cheek! Did you manage to keep your calm in your response back?
      I sent back a one-liner, instructing the person to check pages xx and xx of the manual they returned. I decided to vent here instead. Thanks for listening.

      Originally Posted by Fenderkid View Post


      ALL of their questions were answered in the 2nd half of that book.

      I charge $65/hour for consults and gave this person 45 minutes of my time for free because I love helping but talk about being peeved.

      For goodness sake..at least go through a product before asking questions about it.

      Cheers!

      James
      This is why I don't have my Skype identity revealed here. I know things like that would happen.

      Originally Posted by jrodriguez315 View Post

      Diane,

      I would offer the assistance they want . . . for the original price of the product.

      I wonder if there is a way to create self-destructing PDF files if people get a refund . . . hmmm . . . might be an interesting product to create.
      jrodriguez that is a great idea! You create it and I will definitely want to be an affiliate for that!
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      • Profile picture of the author ChrisMcDonald
        Originally Posted by Diane S View Post

        I sent back a one-liner, instructing the person to check pages xx and xx of the manual they returned. I decided to vent here instead. Thanks for listening.
        Probably the best thing to do, yes. Well done for keeping your cool!
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Diane S View Post

        I sent back a one-liner, instructing the person to check pages xx and xx of the manual they returned. I decided to vent here instead. Thanks for listening.
        I would have sent him a one-liner telling him to piss up a rope.
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      • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
        Originally Posted by Diane S View Post

        I sent back a one-liner, instructing the person to check pages xx and xx of the manual they returned. I decided to vent here instead. Thanks for listening.
        You're a bigger person than I am. I usually opt for my size 13 on the backside of the offender. Must be that testosterone thingamajig.
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      • Profile picture of the author MerlynSanchez
        I've known for a while now that you're a very nice person. Now I know you're patient, too.



        Originally Posted by Diane S View Post

        I sent back a one-liner, instructing the person to check pages xx and xx of the manual they returned. I decided to vent here instead. Thanks for listening.
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      • Profile picture of the author DeborahDera
        Angela's Backlinks uses some strange coding in the file so that it can only be opened on one computer (not shared with others). You also have to enter your email address as the password. That said, I don't see why a system couldn't be created to dismantle the password feature once a product is returned? Something to think about.

        Originally Posted by Diane S View Post

        I sent back a one-liner, instructing the person to check pages xx and xx of the manual they returned. I decided to vent here instead. Thanks for listening.

        This is why I don't have my Skype identity revealed here. I know things like that would happen.

        jrodriguez that is a great idea! You create it and I will definitely want to be an affiliate for that!
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  • Profile picture of the author jrodriguez315
    Diane,

    I would offer the assistance they want . . . for the original price of the product.

    I wonder if there is a way to create self-destructing PDF files if people get a refund . . . hmmm . . . might be an interesting product to create.
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    • Profile picture of the author timpears
      I can't believe that you wouldn't answer their question after they bought your book.

      The stupidity of people never ceases to amaze me. And the gall to boot.
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      Tim Pears

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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Your a better man than I.

      I would have charged double the cost of the pdf, If the email for the refund matched the email for the help they wanted with the now free ebook.



      Originally Posted by jrodriguez315 View Post

      Diane,

      I would offer the assistance they want . . . for the original price of the product.

      I wonder if there is a way to create self-destructing PDF files if people get a refund . . . hmmm . . . might be an interesting product to create.
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    • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
      Originally Posted by jrodriguez315 View Post

      I wonder if there is a way to create self-destructing PDF files if people get a refund . . . hmmm . . . might be an interesting product to create.
      Oooo

      I can see it now... the "Mission Impossible PDF Add-on"


      Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author ejb2059
      Originally Posted by jrodriguez315 View Post

      Diane,

      I would offer the assistance they want . . . for the original price of the product.

      I wonder if there is a way to create self-destructing PDF files if people get a refund . . . hmmm . . . might be an interesting product to create.

      Excellent idea ...

      If I've learned nothing in life, I've learned that people are crazy ..
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      Years and years ago we had a small software app (sold for $4.95) that helped people using traffic exchanges. Well, this gal bought it and then sent in a support ticket, which was no problem, and I emailed her to ask a few basic questions.

      She replied along the lines of, "I won't answer those because I'm helping you improve your product. I earn $250 an hour and if you want my help you need to send it to me via PayPal."

      I was blown away - and I emailed back reminding her she asked for our help not the other way around. And also told me I was into her for $50 so far. When I refused to pay, she got mad and demanded a refund and said her attorney would be after me for the rest (never happened).

      I refunded her and thought I was done with her. Two-days later, I got a very pissed off email that the product was no longer working on her computer, telling her the license was invalid. When I emailed her back about the refund she said it didn't matter because she was in possession of the product and possession was 9 tenths of the law.

      And then she demanded I re-activated her license,

      Some people...
      Best customer story I have heard in a long time

      Thanks for that.
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      • Profile picture of the author scottlin
        Originally Posted by James Campbell View Post

        Best customer story I have heard in a long time

        Thanks for that.
        Agree that is a cracker.

        I'm blown away by the stories in this thread, some people are just incredible and disgraceful.

        But it works both ways, I've had some interesting encounters with buying products online and on a forum like this or in the IM industry where there is so much B.S. it's amazing the lengths people will go to, to not do what they so openly promised they would do right before getting your money.
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        • Profile picture of the author conceptsti
          whenever i get crazy clients i go and read clientsfromhell.net

          you should post your story on there!
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          • Profile picture of the author boxoun
            As a digital consumer It's frustrating buying things on hype then having to return it because you had no clue what it was when you bought it lol.

            I hate returning things! But sometimes you just have to!

            This person will never succeed in life. I'm the passive aggressive type and this is what I would have said:

            "You sound like you have no clue what you are doing and I really feel bad for you. Even though you returned my product but still are using it, I hope it can help YOUR PATHETIC LITTLE LIFE!"

            Thank you, come again.
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          • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
            Originally Posted by conceptsti View Post

            whenever i get crazy clients i go and read clientsfromhell.net

            you should post your story on there!
            I subscribe to the RSS feed
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          • Profile picture of the author Murt@gh
            Originally Posted by conceptsti View Post

            whenever i get crazy clients i go and read clientsfromhell.net

            you should post your story on there!
            Thanks for the link, I've been cracking up
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  • Profile picture of the author txconx
    Maybe there's a way to put a license key in these products so it could be deactivated in the instance of a refund. That's certainly something I'd like to see because offering a refund on digital products IMO is useless.
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  • Profile picture of the author Diane S
    Big Mike's person was a real gem. That really takes the cake. Wow!

    Yeah, refunds on digital products like a pdf ebook are meaningless. Highway robbery is what it is.
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  • Profile picture of the author LB
    I had someone purchase an ebook and then refund it.

    A month later they asked for a copy of the book again because they accidentally deleted it.

    When I pointed out they had asked for a refund and had no further rights to the download they responded, "it's just data!" and then threatened to sue me.

    I sent back an email asking if they really had lawyers on their planet. Never heard back.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lloyd Buchinski
      Originally Posted by LB View Post

      I sent back an email asking if they really had lawyers on their planet. Never heard back.
      Looks like it just took their inspiration to bring out your literary talent. Enjoyed that one
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    • Profile picture of the author paulie888
      Originally Posted by LB View Post

      I had someone purchase an ebook and then refund it.

      A month later they asked for a copy of the book again because they accidentally deleted it.

      When I pointed out they had asked for a refund and had no further rights to the download they responded, "it's just data!" and then threatened to sue me.

      I sent back an email asking if they really had lawyers on their planet. Never heard back.
      This is incredible, I can't believe how blithely ignorant some people are about digital product rights and norms. They seem to think normal rules don't apply anymore any time a digital product or software is involved. I suppose some people have this warped and distorted sense about digital property rights, where they feel they're entitled to have unrestricted access to anything and everything they download onto their computer, regardless of whether they requested a refund.
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    • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
      Originally Posted by LB View Post

      I had someone purchase an ebook and then refund it.

      A month later they asked for a copy of the book again because they accidentally deleted it.

      When I pointed out they had asked for a refund and had no further rights to the download they responded, "it's just data!" and then threatened to sue me.

      I sent back an email asking if they really had lawyers on their planet. Never heard back.
      My response to people like that is usually "knock yourself out, I'm sure you'll find a lawyer happy to charge you for your time..."
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      • Profile picture of the author paulie888
        Originally Posted by JamieSEO View Post

        My response to people like that is usually "knock yourself out, I'm sure you'll find a lawyer happy to charge you for your time..."
        I can't even believe they feel entitled to demand access to a digital product after they've requested a refund. Do they somehow think that the normal rules which apply to physical products aren't applicable anymore?

        It'd be like someone feeling entitled to retaining possession of a physical product such as a computer or printer even after they're requested a refund on it...do they realize how ridiculous they sound?
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      • Profile picture of the author txconx
        Originally Posted by JamieSEO View Post

        My response to people like that is usually "knock yourself out, I'm sure you'll find a lawyer happy to charge you for your time..."
        I had a woman call me on the phone and threaten to sue me for something I'd said online about her website.

        I asked her if her attorney charges by the hour and she affirmed that yes, he did. I then cheerily said "Great, give him my number! I'm sure there's LOTS of things for me to talk with him about!"

        Funny, I never heard from her attorney.
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  • Profile picture of the author infomaniacs
    Wow, that is rude. I have bought stacks of digital goods and have never asked for a refund. Even the ones that weren't so great.
    Some people just need to suck it up.
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Originally Posted by Diane S View Post

    I could not believe my eyes. The nerve!

    Promise me after you return a digital product do not expect the product owner to provide customer service to you. Just plain RUDE!
    Hey Diane...

    That is rude and thoroughly reprehensible. By the way...

    I like being proactive. I have not bought your product, but I would like
    to request a refund...

    and a review copy, please?

    Thanks! You're the best!


    Ken
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    • Profile picture of the author Lea Karana
      wow thats crazy

      You should have told him in the email that you cannot help him since he returned the item.
      let them know that your are aware of the fact that they returned the ebook.

      the nerve!!
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        Diane, this world is crazy sometimes, isn't it?

        I had someone give me a really hard time over one of my free WordPress themes. She said my theme broke her website and she went on and on and expected me to fix it for her for nothing. The theme is still housed at WordPress.org and if it did break a site, WordPress techs would immediately delete the theme from their repository, because they are quite strict about theme compatibility issues. The problem was with one of the scripts she was trying to run from the site, so I helped her out to a point, but when she started to get nasty, I simply blocked her IP and her site.

        I've had a few issues like that but they are few and far between. After doing business online for sometime, you're bound to run into the odd nut job. Thankfully, there are far more good people in this world.
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        • Profile picture of the author Devid Farah
          Diane, i'm with you and you're right.

          Well, i simply would say:

          "Very sorry but no customer support for refunded products". That's it.

          Devid
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    • Profile picture of the author James Sides
      Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

      Hey Diane...

      That is rude and thoroughly reprehensible. By the way...

      I like being proactive. I have not bought your product, but I would like
      to request a refund...

      and a review copy, please?

      Thanks! You're the best!


      Ken
      Had to give a thanks for this. I literally LOL'd when I read it. Glad I didn't have a mouth full of pop.

      Cheers!

      James
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      "People will remain the same until the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change."

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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    Sold a WP theme for some time and one day had this email asking for help to "install" the theme.

    Replied back asking for purchase number/email and got this answer:

    "No, I didn't bought it, just downloaded a copy for free at ********. But if this is your product, you have to install it for me."

    I simply added the email ID to my **** list.
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    • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
      Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso View Post

      Sold a WP theme for some time and one day had this email asking for help to "install" the theme.

      Replied back asking for purchase number/email and got this answer:

      "No, I didn't bought it, just downloaded a copy for free at ********. But if this is your product, you have to install it for me."

      I simply added the email ID to my **** list.

      Kind of makes you wonder how some get through life.

      Who said the universe isn't kind...


      Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author Clyde
    Better than asking for a refund after 6 months just because they can.

    Happened to me once before.
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  • Profile picture of the author Monidelgagrillo
    I agree, way to keep your cool. A lot of people would've probably handled that differently. Now if they ask you anything else, I wouldn't provide any answers because they shouldn't be worth your time. If they're not helping you out, why should you help them out?

    Monica
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    • Profile picture of the author oneplusone
      I experience naughty customers like this quite often, as a vendor in many different niches.

      You've got to be careful not to tar all customers with the same brush, most are decent people just trying to solve their problems etc
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      • Profile picture of the author theplugindude
        I really think no one has faced my situation..

        One guy purchased my product, then asked for a refund, then again purchased the product

        (it was not downloadable - It was a video course hosted online)

        And then

        Again asked for a refund.

        Can anyone beat that?

        Screw the refund seekers!
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        • Profile picture of the author CorporatePuppet
          Wow that's shocking (and I've seen a lot of crazy stuff).

          You know you should make lemons out of lemonade on this thing. Take the story and add it to your salescopy around the refund guarantee. I'd highlight the fact that you offer a full refund no questions asked and then add in this story to show that in this situation you even helped someone out after they refunded.

          Now the first thing that you might think is that adding that would encourage people to refund but A) you don't know that until you test it and B) I might also add to the salescopy story that you had to promise your business partner that you would not offer support anymore to someone that has refunded since you two had a meeting and he/she convinced you that it was not in the best interest of paying customers. (or something to that effect)
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          • Profile picture of the author Boston Joe
            Wow, patient indeed. Not sure I would have been able to hold back like you did. Good for you.
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            • Profile picture of the author mikestewart
              I am not sure that I would have as much patients as anyone one here. Would be hard to ignore these requests without responding with 4 letter words!
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        • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
          Originally Posted by prats2992 View Post

          I really think no one has faced my situation..

          One guy purchased my product, then asked for a refund, then again purchased the product

          (it was not downloadable - It was a video course hosted online)

          And then

          Again asked for a refund.

          Can anyone beat that?

          Screw the refund seekers!
          Sorry to burst your bubble... I've had that happen twice over the past 2 years (2 different clients) :rolleyes:

          I actually keep my own "blacklist" that I add people like this to.

          If I receive any order from them for goods or services I immediately reject the order and just send them a refund. Saves time - when they ask why I just copy and paste the email/saga that got them blacklisted and say I'm not interested in having them as a client or buyer.

          When they complain about being blacklisted I just tell them that I have a limited number of a$$hats I am willing to deal with
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  • Wow, that is ridiculous! If they had questions, I would ask them to buy the book again. Ha ha! That would make me mad.
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  • Profile picture of the author ARS
    That's a really awful move, I'd be really annoyed if someone did that to me and probably rant at them saying to buy it again if they want support.

    I would never return a book for the money back if I thought it was worth the money I paid, and it was as advertised.
    I mean you know that most people that request refunds use it anyway.

    But to get refunded and ask for support.. Really pathetic.
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  • Profile picture of the author KunTaoM
    At early stage if you can remember the ebook is not in PDF format. It is an executable file with .exe extension.

    I guess if that can reapply again today, definitely you can control and secure you ebook if customer decide to refund.

    It's kind of ebook license where you can assign S/N or special code to open the ebook and deactive the S/N or code incase customer refund.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by KunTaoM View Post

      At early stage if you can remember the ebook is not in PDF format. It is an executable file with .exe extension.
      And today, people read ebooks on their iPhone.

      An EXE file doesn't work. The iPhone doesn't even unzip. You have an ebook people buy on their iPhone, it had better be a raw PDF with direct link from the download page.

      There is a reason we don't do things that way anymore.
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    • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
      Originally Posted by KunTaoM View Post

      At early stage if you can remember the ebook is not in PDF format. It is an executable file with .exe extension.

      I guess if that can reapply again today, definitely you can control and secure you ebook if customer decide to refund.

      It's kind of ebook license where you can assign S/N or special code to open the ebook and deactive the S/N or code incase customer refund.
      Hmm - people are far more wary of downloading .exe files. I would never download an ebook in that format unless I already knew and trusted the creator.

      Protecting against viruses is enough work already
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  • Profile picture of the author shabit87
    LMAO! People can be something! And you're sure this is the same guy...not just some man with a very common name like John?

    I'm sure you're right, just hard to believe.

    So how did you reply to this um, unique, customer?
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  • At least it goes to show that there was nothing wrong with your product since the jerk is obviously putting it to use. What a scumbag
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I just got one. Must be something in the air. Got a signup to one of my membership sites, but two registrations came in both at the same time and neither registration matched the paypal email of the buyer.

    I contacted the buyer, thanked them for their purchase and asked them which email address they used to sign up.

    She emailed me back and told me which one it was.

    Couple of minutes pass.

    She emails me and says she never authorized the Paypal transaction. Had no knowledge of the purchase (of course, having no knowledge of the purchase, she somehow managed to sign up to my membership site after payment and give me the correct signup email address .... hmmmm)

    Of course I refunded immediately. She filed an unauthorized payment dispute immediately. Deleted both accounts in my membership site.

    I would have believed the unauthorized payment claim had she not signed up to the membership site and told me the correct email address. Anyway, I've banned that Paypal in the membership site, plus another membership site I have, plus DLGuard ... just so she doesn't accidentally have any more unauthorized purchases.
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    • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      She emailed me back and told me which one it was.

      Couple of minutes pass.

      She emails me and says she never authorized the Paypal transaction. Had no knowledge of the purchase (of course, having no knowledge of the purchase, she somehow managed to sign up to my membership site after payment and give me the correct signup email address .... hmmmm)
      I've had that lovely trick pulled on me for selling websites, services, memberships, product purchases... all with the buyer actually emailing me details...

      The worst part is that any time they claim it's an unauthorized transaction PayPal seems to side with them in any dispute, regardless of evidence you can provide that proves they've communicated with you and that the purchase was legit
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
    Originally Posted by Diane S View Post

    Someone bought one of my products, then returned it. Okay, that happens. Then this person sent an email explaining how they were having trouble getting a working list of one of the items as explained in my product (remember they got their money back but still have the product - it is an ebook). They asked me if I could help. They asked me to send my own private list of the item. I could not believe my eyes. The nerve!

    Promise me after you return a digital product do not expect the product owner to provide customer service to you. Just plain RUDE!
    Can you reverse the refund? The terms of a refund generally indicate that the file being "returned" is removed and deleted from the user's computer. The fact that they subsequently eMailed you shows they did not do that. So, by their own admission, whatever excuse they used for the refund was invalid.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

      Can you reverse the refund? The terms of a refund generally indicate that the file being "returned" is removed and deleted from the user's computer. The fact that they subsequently eMailed you shows they did not do that. So, by their own admission, whatever excuse they used for the refund was invalid.
      Excellent.

      Thanks for that Dan, I'm going to have fun with that one

      In fact all the persons saying is...

      "Hi Diane, I'm a serial refunder and don't like paying for things. The book you sent was great and I'm implementing it now. I just don't want you to have any money for it. I also would like you to bend over backwards to help me as well, as I'm such a decent honest and caring person, albeit without a brain"
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  • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
    Originally Posted by Diane S View Post

    Someone bought one of my products, then returned it. Okay, that happens. Then this person sent an email explaining how they were having trouble getting a working list of one of the items as explained in my product (remember they got their money back but still have the product - it is an ebook). They asked me if I could help. They asked me to send my own private list of the item. I could not believe my eyes. The nerve!

    Promise me after you return a digital product do not expect the product owner to provide customer service to you. Just plain RUDE!

    Wow Diane, I would be mad too.

    There is little worse to deal with in business, than arrogant stupidity.

    I hope your day(s) gets better.

    Hopefully they are the exception to the rule for you.



    Jim
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  • Profile picture of the author AMiRU
    Ouch, that must be very annoying. I hope it won't ever happen to me. At least in my business, whenever someone request a refund I'll definitely terminate his/her account once a refund has been issued.
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  • Profile picture of the author entry
    Originally Posted by Diane S View Post

    they were having trouble getting a working list of one of the items as explained in my product......

    ....to send my own private list of the item.
    Private list of the item?

    What do you mean by list? what type of list? summary list or email list :confused:
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  • Profile picture of the author mezner
    Originally Posted by Diane S View Post

    Promise me after you return a digital product do not expect the product owner to provide customer service to you. Just plain RUDE!
    I promise and I doubt I will actually ever return a book unless it wasn't what they were advertising.
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  • Profile picture of the author LynneCarey
    Originally Posted by Diane S View Post

    Promise me after you return a digital product do not expect the product owner to provide customer service to you. Just plain RUDE!
    Firstly... I promise

    Secondly, I can't even imagine what sort of person could do what you have explained, and also with some of the other 'experiences' posted in this thread!! Flabbergasting!!

    Commendations on your handling of the situation with such patience and generosity. I think ultimately at some point, people will get back what they give out!!

    The only reasons I have ever refunded anything were for the following:

    1. I bought something twice Yes, I did indeed, but I then contacted the product owner and explained why I was requesting a refund for just the 1 product... embarrassing...
    2. The product genuinely didn't deliver what it claimed!
    3. Or... The product was not what I thought, and I was not interested in using it - so many sell things without being up front with what it is you are actually getting (I usually won't buy things now, unless they give a good idea what it is they are selling).
    I would never refund anything that delivered value, and which I purposefully bought with the intention of using it.... even if I didn't! [mmm not that I would ever buy something useful and not actually USE it....]

    Thanks everyone for sharing some of your less pleasant customer experiences.

    It is rather shocking what some people will do...
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    • Profile picture of the author Niky Ray
      Good for you to stay calm!
      Losing your temper won't make these people kinder. But, it could harm your business. Not to mention your nervous system! No more rudies please!
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    • Profile picture of the author meerkat29
      There will always be some people who try to get over on a merchant, so I would make sure my refund policy spells out exactly what the terms are. You want a satisfied customer who will recommend you to other buyers, but you don't want to take a loss because some jackwagon is trying to take advantage of you.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Imagine a profitable business without whinging customers. How nice would that be?
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  • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
    Originally Posted by Diane S View Post

    Someone bought one of my products, then returned it. Okay, that happens. Then this person sent an email explaining how they were having trouble getting a working list of one of the items as explained in my product (remember they got their money back but still have the product - it is an ebook). They asked me if I could help. They asked me to send my own private list of the item. I could not believe my eyes. The nerve!

    Promise me after you return a digital product do not expect the product owner to provide customer service to you. Just plain RUDE!
    ROFL - I get charming people like that every now and then (thankfully only about 1 out of 100).

    My favs are signing up for one of my services, getting all bonuses and advice they can possibly squeeze out of me, then saying they've changed their mind (no reason ever given) and wanting a 100% refund...

    And of course, buying one of my products - emailing me saying they want a full refund because they don't like it and then seeing them use my product on one of their sites...

    Most people = great to deal with

    Unfortunately there is always the a$$hat factor - the only way to avoid it is to have absolutely no client interaction :p
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  • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
    Wow..What a nerve, I don't really understand how do these people think,or are they just trying to be smart or treating you like a freaking COMPUTER!
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  • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
    Hey Big Mike... pretty sure I've had that client :p
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  • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
    Originally Posted by Diane S View Post

    Then this person sent an email explaining how they were having trouble getting a working list of one of the items as explained in my product (remember they got their money back but still have the product - it is an ebook). They asked me if I could help. They asked me to send my own private list of the item.
    I must confess that when my temper has gotten the better of me I have a little response I like to send in these situations...

    Email back to a$$hat: No problem - the list you requested is attached.
    [I deliberately don't actually attach anything]

    When a$$hat emails me saying there is no attachment...

    Email back to a$$hat: That's strange - it shows that it went through here. Maybe your anti-virus program blocked it. I have attached it again for you.
    [Again - I don't actually attach anything]

    I just keep going in this vein until a$$hat has turned off their anti-virus, firewall, triple checked their email settings, rebooted their modem, rebooted their PC, etc.

    Then my final email to them is: Oh - I just noticed that you had already been issued a refund for this product, so unfortunately you are no longer permitted to use it.

    Then block their email address
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    • Profile picture of the author Amanda Craven
      Originally Posted by JamieSEO View Post

      I must confess that when my temper has gotten the better of me I have a little response I like to send in these situations...

      Email back to a$: No problem - the list you requested is attached.
      [I deliberately don't actually attach anything]

      When a$ emails me saying there is no attachment...

      Email back to a$: That's strange - it shows that it went through here. Maybe your anti-virus program blocked it. I have attached it again for you.
      [Again - I don't actually attach anything]

      I just keep going in this vein until a$ has turned off their anti-virus, firewall, triple checked their email settings, rebooted their modem, rebooted their PC, etc.

      Then my final email to them is: Oh - I just noticed that you had already been issued a refund for this product, so unfortunately you are no longer permitted to use it.

      Then block their email address
      ROFL - that is brilliant! Just remind me never to get on the wrong side of you...
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      • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
        Originally Posted by Amanda Craven View Post

        ROFL - that is brilliant! Just remind me never to get on the wrong side of you...
        I reserve it for special people like the one in the OP
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    • Profile picture of the author scottlin
      Originally Posted by JamieSEO View Post

      I must confess that when my temper has gotten the better of me I have a little response I like to send in these situations...

      Email back to a$: No problem - the list you requested is attached.
      [I deliberately don't actually attach anything]

      When a$ emails me saying there is no attachment...

      Email back to a$: That's strange - it shows that it went through here. Maybe your anti-virus program blocked it. I have attached it again for you.
      [Again - I don't actually attach anything]

      I just keep going in this vein until a$ has turned off their anti-virus, firewall, triple checked their email settings, rebooted their modem, rebooted their PC, etc.

      Then my final email to them is: Oh - I just noticed that you had already been issued a refund for this product, so unfortunately you are no longer permitted to use it.

      Then block their email address

      That's awesome!!
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      • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
        Originally Posted by scottlin View Post

        That's awesome!!
        My form of stress relief
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        • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
          Originally Posted by Diane S View Post

          They asked me if I could help. They asked me to send my own private list of the item.
          I would have made a "special" private list of the item, and tossed in some medical terms or some new internet marketing terms, lol.

          I'm not sure what kind of list you have there, but it might have been fun to allude that the information they were seeking was readily available on a page they should have access to after having bought your product. And that their payment confirmation code is their password - which works unless a product is returned. :p
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          • Profile picture of the author Diane S
            Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

            ... it might have been fun to allude that the information they were seeking was readily available on a page they should have access to after having bought your product. :p
            Jill, I did reply that the info they needed was described on page xx of the manual they returned.

            UPDATE: I heard back from the customer, and he said it wasn't him, it was ClickBank! ClickBank did the return, not him! So now I am in 'email negotiations' with CB over this. Will keep you posted. I will get to the bottom of this.
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            • Profile picture of the author Diane S
              Update: Clickbank will not return my money. But I now have the money.

              Recap: Here's What Happened
              1. Customer buys my clickbank product
              2. ClickBank security department 'disapproves' of the transaction by my customer, and WITH NO NOTICE TO ME refunds the customer's money.
              3. I check ClickBank report and note a refund that should not have been there AS THERE WAS NO EMAIL FROM CLICKBANK TELLING ME ABOUT THE REFUND as there has always been
              4. I note my spreadsheet that product was refunded to that customer and forget all about it
              5. A week later customer asks me to provide, gratis, a list of items related to the product.
              6. I check my spreadsheet, note the product was refunded, get upset, calm down, send one line response - "You can get those items by following the instructions of page xx of the manual you returned."
              7. Start this thread
              8. Customer replies it wasn't him, it was ClickBank who did the refund.
              9. Start support ticket with ClickBank and result is they decided purchase was fraudulent and did a refund - end of story as far as they are concerned.
              10. I forward ClickBank decision email to customer with a request for the money.
              11. Customer pays within hours and then sends email asking for the list of info AGAIN!
              12. I remain calm, send the list. :rolleyes:

              What should have happened, IMHO
              1. Customer buys product.
              2. ClickBank flags purchase as fraudulent, issues refund to customer and notifies me by email.
              3. Customer notices refund, realizes I am being denied payment for a digital product he now owns, and contacts me for details on how to directly send me payment for my digital product.
              4. Customer turns to page xx of manual and generates his own list of items related to the product.

              Thanks for listening. I have learned a lot through this situation. I learned I don't want to continue to do business with ClickBank. I learned to track refund notifications, check against reports, and when things don't match up, contact the customer to see what's up. If flagging for fraudulent sales happens again, I will not hesitate to just immediately ask the customer for the payment directly.

              May this never happen to you... and as soon as the bogus CDR is met, I am "SO OUTTA THERE!"

              Diane
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  • Profile picture of the author Claire Sharp
    If i were on your shoe, i can't help but get angry to that person. What a rude person he/she is!
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  • Profile picture of the author J R Salem
    Probably a decent chance they were planning to ask for refund before the purchase, and it wouldnt be the first time for them.

    Whether an online or offline business, the bad seeds exist unfortunately.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ephrils
    I regret to say I've hit some refunders like this. They then use Paypal to immediately file a bank dispute to reverse the transaction for a digital product. Drives me crazy.

    There should be a Master Serial Refunder List, with posted proof to show never to do business with them... this last purchaser is definitely going on mine.
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy Broussard
    Originally Posted by Diane S View Post

    Someone bought one of my products, then returned it. Okay, that happens. Then this person sent an email explaining how they were having trouble getting a working list of one of the items as explained in my product (remember they got their money back but still have the product - it is an ebook). They asked me if I could help. They asked me to send my own private list of the item. I could not believe my eyes. The nerve!

    Promise me after you return a digital product do not expect the product owner to provide customer service to you. Just plain RUDE!
    It's always tough when you put a lot into something and have it come back. But worse when it's just obvious abuse. We all hate to see our pride and joy returned, but if the person at least takes a minute of their time and gives me a little feedback or something, well, that's ok...

    The other day got one that bought, downloaded and with 10 minutes sent an email saying he was taking advantage of my "no questions asked refund"... so, there you have it. True to my word, no questions, just refunded - all you can do... but clearly the person had no intention of doing anything other than swiping it from the beginning...

    Thing is, it all comes around - so don't trip on it... serial refunders will never be successful as internet marketers anyway, so it is what it is...
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Diane S,

    It sounds to me like CLICKBANK is the one that did something wrong. Would they, should they, send an email to the customer saying it was fraudulent? YEAH, **YOU** should have been notified. They MIGHT have attempted to send you an email. Email is VERY low security, but it is ALSO very unreliable. 8-( The problem could be on your side, their side, or anywhere in between. They SHOULD have a system to resend emails that fail. If the email fails anywhere AFTER their system successfully attempts, they will likely get a notice. TWO problems:

    1. If it fails on THEIR side, ALL BETS ARE OFF!
    2. Almost NOBODY checks those emails.

    BTW that is one nice thing about the paypal IPN. They KNOW that http is unreliable, like email. When they send the IPN, they check the response. If it isn't OK, then they wait and RESEND IT! If THAT isn't OK, they wait LONGER, and RESEND IT! They keep doing this for quite a while.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    BTW by unreliable, I mean that you can not even trust that you will get a response, and there is no verification that you got the data correctly. Of course, MOST systems ALSO have lousy basic UDP/TCP-IP connections, and succumb to breaks of even a fraction of a second.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author angiedc
      Wow! Scary, but informative. I actually bought a WSO that I felt didn't quite deliver on what was promised and while I could have requested a refund I didn't think it was the right thing to do since I now had the benefit of having viewed the product. I thought about it for a minute, but chalked it up to lesson learned. I'd vet things more carefully before buying again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Murt@gh
    Unbelievable.

    Daylight robbery! People can be crazy, that is for sure.
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