PayPal Strikes Again - Are We Marketers Really In Their Crosshairs?

40 replies
Hi Guys,

Just found out what happened to a couple well known marketers through an email sent to me yesterday. You can read his post on his blog here :

WARNING: Your PayPal Account is at Risk!

Now, I've heard a lot of stories of marketers having their accounts frozen, but the trend seems to be accelerating lately, and this particular instance is very revealing because of what the PayPal rep had to say about why the account was frozen.

So, it looks like PayPal really is targeting Internet Marketers, or at least that's what it looks like to me.

What to do? What's a reliable alternative? What are your thoughts on this?

To me, it's scary.

Craig
#crosshairs #marketers #paypal #strikes
  • Profile picture of the author noble
    This happened to me a while back, I gave them the requested info (keep in mind this account was from 2001 and VERY regularly used) and they kept giving me the run around. I couldn't afford to not be receiving paypal payments so eventually I went with Plimus around 6-7 months ago, I can now accept PayPal, MoneyBookers and CC/Debit card without having a paypal or moneybookers account. 2CO also allows you to do this. Could not recommend it more highly.

    You can't simply stop accepting PP payments or you'll lose a lot of business which is why Plimus and 2CO are good, they allow people to pay you with their PP balance without you having to have a PP account.

    PayPal is either straight scamming people (they get to hold and invest your money for 6 months (180 days) before they are forced to return it) or they are incompetent (the things I was asked for I'd always send promptly and get a "we didn't get that fax, could you please send it again" response.

    I was a big fan of them and did a lot of money (high $xx,xxx yearly) for a long time but they have recently become a horrible company as many other people I know can attest to. Sort of the same way eBay (their parent company) has been slowly going down hill in recent years.
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    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
      Banned
      Originally Posted by noble View Post

      PayPal is either straight scamming people (they get to hold and invest your money for 6 months (180 days) before they are forced to return it) or they are incompetent (the things I was asked for I'd always send promptly and get a "we didn't get that fax, could you please send it again" response.
      Let's see, they can either process a million dollars in payments per year or freeze and invest $6,000 for 6 months. Tough choice.

      Not.

      If they are scamming people, they are choosing a piss poor way to do it, considering they would make WAY more money processing the payments.
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      • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
        Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

        Quote from blogpost:
        Since I didn't have a PayPal account, we ran the sales through Todd's account.

        We dumped about $74K into that account in 3 days and we were transferring the money to our bank accounts as soon as it came in. A couple weeks went by and all was good until Todd called me the other day. His PayPal account was permanently frozen - just like mine.
        I would love to see a transcript of the conversation between Derrick and Todd.

        Derrick: "Todd, I've just had my Paypal account frozen for selling this product."

        Todd: "That sucks."

        Derrick: "So I need some cashflow. How about I launch a similar product and use your Paypal account?"

        Todd: "Great idea!!"


        Derrick used his name on the product run through Todd's account, which surely would have quickly raised flags at Paypal.

        Not Todd's greatest business decision, I feel.


        Martin
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    • Profile picture of the author flocon
      I have also learned about the freezing Paypal does. Is it correct that Plimus does not allow you to withdraw your money whenever you want?
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  • Profile picture of the author Aussie_Al
    Interested to see your praise of 2co Noble - I will try to check them out this weekend as you are not the first person I have heard recommending them - whats their monthly fee?

    Out of interest were you using PP for digital downloads or physical products - I have had a few minor problems with them which they have always sorted out in my favor - however the last time I was talking to a customer rep he said 'well look on the bright side - you are not selling digital products - which we find a lot harder to deal with"
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Originally Posted by Craig Kaiser View Post

    Hi Guys,

    Just found out what happened to a couple well known marketers through an email sent to me yesterday. You can read his post on his blog here :

    WARNING: Your PayPal Account is at Risk!

    Now, I've heard a lot of stories of marketers having their accounts frozen, but the trend seems to be accelerating lately, and this particular instance is very revealing because of what the PayPal rep had to say about why the account was frozen.

    So, it looks like PayPal really is targeting Internet Marketers, or at least that's what it looks like to me.

    What to do? What's a reliable alternative? What are your thoughts on this?

    To me, it's scary.

    Craig
    I'm very skeptical about his rant from his blog. There were some red flags. He claims to have processed over a million in sales via Pay Pal and he doesn't have his own Pay Pal rep that he could communicate with?

    "They refused to take my calls" was another red flag. In all these years that I've used Pay Pal (and well over a million in sales), they have never refused a single call from me. Have I had to leave messages? Yes, but they were returned. Also anyone who cites the website PayPalSucks.com loses instant credibility with me because many of the stories on that website are faked as well as loaded with affiliate links to merchant account services. Hardly an objective website.

    I'm not saying that Pay Pal is perfect, nor am I saying these things don't happen. I know they do. Sometimes I wonder about their hiring practices over there because some of their reps that I've talked to didn't really understand their own policies and procedures. I've had my own frustrations with Pay Pal. However, I'm always incredulous about Pay Pal rants because very seldom do we get all the facts from both sides, sometimes it's just a rant and then a cry to use another service.

    In any case, no one should only rely on Pay Pal to accept payments, it should just be one option. You can use a merchant account along with Pay Pal, ClickBank, Plimus, Google Check Out, and at least a dozen other options.

    Pay Pal is not targeting marketers, they are targeting people who they think are violating their terms of service, which most people don't read. Out of hundreds of thousands of businesses that use Pay Pal, these incidents are in the very small minority. Though people get really emotional about it and use hyperbole to make it worse than it really is.

    RoD
    Signature
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    - Jim Rohn
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    • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      Pay Pal is not targeting marketers, they are targeting people who they think are violating their terms of service
      Here's my unofficial 3 strikes analysis about what happened:

      1. PayPal considers information marketers a higher risk than someone selling physical products. Why? Because, overall, it is a higher risk for a payment processor.

      2. PayPal also considers "Internet Marketing" info products a higher risk than info products in other categories. Why? Because, overall, these are higher risk.

      3. The sales page for the product at issue "screams" Internet marketing scam based on the way it looks.


      It is not surprising, from that perspective, that when PayPal has a sudden of sales and sees the site it quickly throws 3 strikes and shuts it down.

      From PayPal's perspective, they have seen this thousands of times before and based on history gets cold feet.

      The problem, of course, is there may be NO violation of PayPal's terms. The seller is reputable. There are no refunds.

      But the seller gets nailed nonetheless because of the antics of those who came before him.

      The end result is that PayPal IS targeting marketers.

      To effectively do business in this field you must be aware of the scam artists, how they operate, what they have done to soil the industry, how payment processors like PayPal perceive all of this - and act appropriately to distinguish yourself.

      .
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

        The problem, of course, is there may be NO violation of PayPal's terms. The seller is reputable. There are no refunds.
        50/50 on this one. On the first site, he says:

        "You know what their reason was? They said my site was a work-at-home business opportunity site and that it violated their terms of service!"

        Well, I'd guess the reason THEY said it was because HE said it:

        "If you follow our step-by-step system, you can make a full time living working from home..."

        But then you go to the second site.

        "This guy named David at PayPal said that this site => www.optinapp.com was MLM."

        Now, I've been over that page about a dozen different ways, for two reasons. First, because I really like PayPal and want them to be right. Second, because I really like Todd and wanted to help him understand their reaction.

        The best I could do was to notice that the squeeze pages which come with the product are promoting a free report about the product. Probably because they're the squeeze pages Derrick and Todd built for this product during their launch, and they just pulled a Kern and left the existing collateral all over them.

        But honestly, that's just about the flimsiest damn excuse for calling something MLM that I've ever seen. So to be perfectly honest, I can't point to anything on that second page that looks like a clear violation of the terms.
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author High Horsepower
        Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

        Here's my unofficial 3 strikes analysis about what happened:

        1. PayPal considers information marketers a higher risk than someone selling physical products. Why? Because, overall, it is a higher risk for a payment processor.

        2. PayPal also considers "Internet Marketing" info products a higher risk than info products in other categories. Why? Because, overall, these are higher risk.

        3. The sales page for the product at issue "screams" Internet marketing scam based on the way it looks.


        It is not surprising, from that perspective, that when PayPal has a sudden of sales and sees the site it quickly throws 3 strikes and shuts it down.

        From PayPal's perspective, they have seen this thousands of times before and based on history gets cold feet.

        The problem, of course, is there may be NO violation of PayPal's terms. The seller is reputable. There are no refunds.

        But the seller gets nailed nonetheless because of the antics of those who came before him.

        The end result is that PayPal IS targeting marketers.

        To effectively do business in this field you must be aware of the scam artists, how they operate, what they have done to soil the industry, how payment processors like PayPal perceive all of this - and act appropriately to distinguish yourself.

        .
        I had major problems with PP a while back. I finally got everything resolved but in was a nightmare and cost me tons of lost money I can never recover from lost sales.

        My Account Manager specifically told me that PayPal was targeting Internet Marketers because Refunds were as high as 40%. She told me the magic # was refunds of less than 5% would not red flag my account.
        Signature
        Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Sir Winston Churchill, Speech, 1941, Harrow School

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        • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
          Originally Posted by High Horsepower View Post

          My Account Manager specifically told me that PayPal was targeting Internet Marketers because Refunds were as high as 40%. She told me the magic # was refunds of less than 5% would not red flag my account.
          I can actually understand that. Way too many people in the IM world give refunds for any reason and make it way too easy for scammers. No other sales category has anywhere as high of a refund rate as the IM field and the vast majority of it is because of marketers who just don't want to deal with it.
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        • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
          Originally Posted by High Horsepower View Post

          I had major problems with PP a while back. I finally got everything resolved but in was a nightmare and cost me tons of lost money I can never recover from lost sales.

          My Account Manager specifically told me that PayPal was targeting Internet Marketers because Refunds were as high as 40%. She told me the magic # was refunds of less than 5% would not red flag my account.
          40%?? Are you serious? What are these guys selling? Digital turds?

          The 5% mark comment does make me rest easier.
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          100% Unique Sales Page Website +100% Unique Internet Marketing Product
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          • Profile picture of the author High Horsepower
            Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

            40%?? Are you serious? What are these guys selling? Digital turds?

            The 5% mark comment does make me rest easier.
            I know for FACT that some of these Gurus who sell info products up to $2,997 have refund rates up to 65%, yep, 65%.

            My account manager also told me that PP looks very badly upon "Disputes". She said "even if you don't deny the claim and immediately return the clients money PP does not like this. It causes labor for PP and a distrust for the merchant".

            She told me that I should always give a refund without any hesitation even if the customer was ripping me off. Disputes are Big Red Flags.
            Signature
            Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Sir Winston Churchill, Speech, 1941, Harrow School

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  • Profile picture of the author LB
    I really would love to see more use of AlertPay. They have posted in this forum before and are welcoming to marketing, MLM, bizzop type transactions.

    I think if Alertpay became a standard option for WSOs etc. that it would be a good thing for many people here. How much cooler would it be to deal with a payment processor that actually posts on this forum?

    FWIW, I have read stories of Paypal treating people like gold but then refusing to even speak to them on the phone after the ban goes into effect.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by LB View Post

      How much cooler would it be to deal with a payment processor that actually posts on this forum?
      I'm far more interested in a payment processor my customers trust. Not that they CAN trust, but that they DO trust. Already.

      FWIW, I have read stories of Paypal treating people like gold but then refusing to even speak to them on the phone after the ban goes into effect.
      You know, I've also noticed cops are very nice and friendly BEFORE you break the law.
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author LB
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        I'm far more interested in a payment processor my customers trust. Not that they CAN trust, but that they DO trust. Already.
        That's my point...if its use became common here then the "trust factor" would become a non-issue.



        You know, I've also noticed cops are very nice and friendly BEFORE you break the law.
        Plenty of people have been banned wrongfully from Paypal and then left without a channel of communication to rectify it. Even when the cops arrest you you'll eventually get to argue your case. The interpretation of a Paypal "customer service" rep is hardly law. I'm trying to find it right now, but I do recall one case where a guy was banned for selling porn...except he wasn't selling porn! Someone at Paypal flagged his account and it took months of legal threats and regulatory complaints to get it sorted.

        The idea that a company can take your funds and then say "we're not talking to you" does not make me feel good.

        Reasons you might get banned: http://www.screw-paypal.com/resource..._accounts.html
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        • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
          Rod,

          Yes, I have had clients selling physical products with PayPal problems. IMHO, resulting from atrocious anti-customer "support".

          The first 2 unofficial strikes are based on my conversations over the years with counsel at PayPal / eBay, as well as what other Warriors have relayed from what PayPal employees told them was the reason for an account limitation, as well as general knowledge gained over the last dozen years looking at various payment processors and what they consider "high risk" businesses.

          The third, "look and feel" of a site, is a personal hunch.

          I don't think PayPal is on a Google-style witch hunt looking to weed out marketers.

          But I do think there have been so many online scammers and fraudsters that when, as you point out, there is a sudden big movement of cash, applying my 3 strikes analysis this results in more IMers being impacted.

          Of course, this is an overall generality. There will be plenty of exceptions.

          .
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by LB View Post

          That's my point...if its use became common here then the "trust factor" would become a non-issue.
          Notice the word I've emphasised. Right now, customer trust is an issue. When trust is no longer an issue, I'll consider using AlertPay. Until then, PayPal is the only thing most people really trust.

          Plenty of people have been banned wrongfully from Paypal and then left without a channel of communication to rectify it. Even when the cops arrest you you'll eventually get to argue your case.
          However, if the officer says "you were over the yellow line" and you say "I most certainly was not," the court says "dude, he's a police officer" and you have to pay the fine.

          Sometimes getting to argue your case doesn't actually change anything.
          Signature
          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author Bekah Howard
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        I'm far more interested in a payment processor my customers trust. Not that they CAN trust, but that they DO trust. Already.
        Originally Posted by LB View Post

        That's my point...if its use became common here then the "trust factor" would become a non-issue.
        As Calaban already said, you are asking people to switch from something that they already DO trust to something they CAN trust. This goes against both smart marketing and human nature. We are creatures of habit. As much as we argue this fact, we really do NOT like change.

        Also, it's not just a matter of whether or not the WF uses paypal or not, but if the world as a whole uses paypal. Warriors do not just sell to other Warriors. They also market to general audiences. To not accept paypal would "prove" them to be scammers.

        Originally Posted by LB View Post

        Plenty of people have been banned wrongfully from Paypal and then left without a channel of communication to rectify it.

        The idea that a company can take your funds and then say "we're not talking to you" does not make me feel good.
        They can't just take your funds. They just think they can. As for communication, most of the time it's simply a matter of knowing how to get their attention. No company is going to take someone seriously if they just get mad/whine. What they will take seriously is someone who proves they know business and paypal itself. With one email to Paypal and one phone call from them, My husband got them to release a base amount held, remove a 10% rolling reserve, and remove any flags on his old account. All it took was a little research.

        On a side note, one of the keys for not getting reserves is to leave larger amounts of money in the account, proportionate to what you bring in (as proof that this isn't just a big scam), pay business expenses out of the account (proves that you are in fact a business and not a scammer), and to fight claims from customers if you ever get them even if you will refund them as soon as the claim is closed (always just refunding them makes Paypal think you're guilty). We have our current Paypal account that has brought in more money then the old (previously "reserved") account that has never had so much as a hint of being locked with these practices. The old one broke all three and we had several warning signals (like calls or reviews from paypal).
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Brian,

    You could very well be right and I appreciate the analysis because it gives me a different perspective. But I'm curious what you are basing your unofficial 3 strikes analysis on. I'm basing my observations from my experience with Pay Pal as well as the experience of other marketers that I do business with, which I am willing to admit might not be accurate, but I'm working with a pretty decent sample.

    Pay Pal has also frozen accounts for people selling tangible goods such as vitamins and supplements, as well as for "any suspicious activity", such as moving large amounts of cash, that have nothing to do with IM, which is why I'm not convinced they are specifically targeting marketers so much as looking for things that might be violating their TOS, which they do get wrong sometimes.

    The problem, of course, is there may be NO violation of PayPal's terms. The seller is reputable. There are no refunds.
    Yes, I agree with that and have stated that I'm aware that these things do happen. I'm just not convinced that Pay Pal is specifically targeting marketers. But I am enjoying the debate.

    But honestly, that's just about the flimsiest damn excuse for calling something MLM that I've ever seen. So to be perfectly honest, I can't point to anything on that second page that looks like a clear violation of the terms

    Yes, totally agree. I was looking at that second website and could not for the life of me see why they would call it MLM. I'll be the first to admit that some of the PP reps don't have a clue about internet marketing. To some of them it all looks the same.

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author jmbare
    Originally Posted by Craig Kaiser View Post

    Hi Guys,

    Just found out what happened to a couple well known marketers through an email sent to me yesterday. You can read his post on his blog here :

    WARNING: Your PayPal Account is at Risk!

    Now, I've heard a lot of stories of marketers having their accounts frozen, but the trend seems to be accelerating lately, and this particular instance is very revealing because of what the PayPal rep had to say about why the account was frozen.

    So, it looks like PayPal really is targeting Internet Marketers, or at least that's what it looks like to me.

    What to do? What's a reliable alternative? What are your thoughts on this?

    To me, it's scary.

    Craig
    Hey Craig,

    Were you using a Personal Account or Merchant Account. Specifically, which "terms of service" were violated?
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    for all things Bare (site is currently under development)

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    • Profile picture of the author Craig Kaiser
      Hey Craig,

      Were you using a Personal Account or Merchant Account. Specifically, which "terms of service" were violated?
      No, this wasn't my account. I just found out about the 2 marketers who did have their accounts frozen and what I read concerning the reason PayPal gave made it sound like they maybe were starting to target Internet Marketers, and I wanted to get some thoughts from other marketers on this.

      ....and whether I should be looking at other alternatives.

      Craig
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    I've had my share of run-ins with Ebay/PayPal. I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw Lebron James.
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  • Profile picture of the author Craig Kaiser
    It's great to get different perspectives on this.

    Most of my sales over the last several years have been for graphics products, so I never really gave it a thought.

    Now however, I'm moving into software, which in itself shouldn't be a problem, but some of the software I'll be putting out would primarily be used by Internet Marketers, plus I may be offering bonuses that consist of products related to the niche the software generally addresses, which in many cases would be Internet Marketing related videos, ebooks, ect.

    My sales pages wouldn't be hyped up pitches for some IM info product, but benefits laden copy to sell the software, so I hope that will be okay, lol.

    When I hear stuff like this happening, it just makes me nervous.

    Craig
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    • Profile picture of the author Aussie_Al
      I can't really prove it , much more of a hunch - but I do get the feeling PP outsource SOME of their customer service to India or some where where English is not their first language

      If you ask to speak to a manager there is usually some delays and then you get an American on the phone - in my experience at least, who has always been more than helpful.
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
        Originally Posted by Aussie_Al View Post

        I can't really prove it , much more of a hunch - but I do get the feeling PP outsource SOME of their customer service to India or some where where English is not their first language

        If you ask to speak to a manager there is usually some delays and then you get an American on the phone - in my experience at least, who has always been more than helpful.
        I rang there customer service once and got somebody from either Malaysia or Singapore, cant remember which, so yes they do outsource.

        Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Got to agree with kindsvater. The first thing I got when I tried to visit the site in the blog post referred to is a McAfee's Site Advisor screen. Then I reached the site in question after clicking go there anyway. How is this not a Make Money Online opportunity which Paypal doesn't like particularly?

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  • Profile picture of the author Paleochora
    Plimus seems the best option. The one thing that puts me off 2CO is that nowhere can I find any pricing details on their site.
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    • Profile picture of the author noble
      Originally Posted by Paleochora View Post

      Plimus seems the best option. The one thing that puts me off 2CO is that nowhere can I find any pricing details on their site.
      I went with Plimus because, aside from the %age for trasaction which 2CO also charges, Plimus is free and 2CO costs $50 to signup.

      I figured I'd try Plimus, if I didn't like it I'd be out nothing and then could switch to 2CO. I fell in love with Plimus and have been using them ever since. They have WAY more options like creating membership areas, automatic updates e-mailed out, you can fully custom the html on your order pages to look like they're still on your site, etc.

      As for other guys who were inquiring its not because I ran some kind of scammy site, I had been using this PP since 2001. I did a big job and was paid almost $1,700. Everything was great until about a month after he got his work he filed a "not received" and since it was digital goods I couldn't provide a tracking number. I put it on a cd and mailed it in then tried faxing them communications as well as that tracking info. Customer service via phone was very rude and always acted like they never got anything from me (I even updated in the dispute center).

      FINALLY I got ahold of a guy that says well that tracking number does it for you, everything's gravy we'll move the funds back to you. 15 minutes later my account was limited and after another couple months of trying to get an answer as to why and what I could do (at this point screw the money I was scammed out of just let me use my PayPal) I got nowhere and dropped them.

      They have possibly the worst customer service in the world and can freeze your money (call it a limitation) and hold it for 180 days in which time I'm sure they're investing it and making profits before they legally have to give it back. Just wait, you could be next!
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    • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
      Originally Posted by Paleochora View Post

      Plimus seems the best option. The one thing that puts me off 2CO is that nowhere can I find any pricing details on their site.
      On their home page go all the way down to the "documentation" link and click on that, then click on the fee schedule. Here is the direct link:

      Operating Regulations Fee Schedule

      RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author WDM
    Wow that is crazy. I've always used gateway services like Authorize.net, but always have paypal as an option.
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  • Profile picture of the author LB
    Also, it's not just a matter of whether or not the WF uses paypal or not, but if the world as a whole uses paypal. Warriors do not just sell to other Warriors. They also market to general audiences. To not accept paypal would "prove" them to be scammers.
    I'm not arguing that point...I make my living outside this forum. That's why I said "I think if Alertpay became a standard option for WSOs etc."
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  • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
    Banned
    Also from the page:

    Since I didn’t have a PayPal account, we ran the sales through Todd’s account.

    We dumped about $74K into that account in 3 days and we were transferring the money to our bank accounts as soon as it came in. A couple weeks went by and all was good until Todd called me the other day. His PayPal account was permanently frozen – just like mine.
    So, let's see, there was a sudden influx of cash to an account, and you were transferring the money out just as soon as it came in. Gee, for the life of me, I can't figure out why they would freeze his account.
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    Here's a shortlist from PayPal about what isn't allowed:

    https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/ma...locale.x=en_US

    I have to agree with Rod on the Personal Rep comment. At $1M per year, he's going to have an Account Manager whose job it is is to be available to answer questions, resolve problems help you market your products and even improve your website if need be.

    I know this because I one and I'd posted the following in an earlier thread:

    I was just talking about this with my PayPal Account Manager the other day - according to him, the most common reasons for accounts being limited, frozen or requiring a rolling reserve being held are (in order):

    1. High ratio of complaints to transactions
    2. High ratio of refunds/charge backs to transactions
    3. Violating PayPal policies
    4. Failure to follow stated Refund Policies
    5. Poor/non-existent Customer Service/Support

    And I'll give you two guesses which "Industries", have the highest frozen account record, but you'll only need one - IM (Info and MMO products.)

    PayPal is exceptionally well aware of what's going on in IM as well as other markets. And they are well versed in IM - they follow trends in it closely.
    I've learned that PayPal is trying hard to improve their relationship with merchants. They want to become more involved and they really are helpful folks, at least in the EU.

    Their US Development team are also excellent people to work with. In fact, they bent over backwards to help me with an application recently. It was a great experience working with them and being trained by them.
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  • Profile picture of the author CheapTrafficDude
    Wow... I've never had problems with PayPal... Well, not problems like this, that's outrageous, they obviously don't know what MLM is and yeah, if they're allowing Clickbank business ops to be sold via PP, then they are actually breaking Federal laws because they are allowing programs where others were refused service and others are accepted, for the same type of product. I think they're gonna shoot themselves in the foot, they're gonna piss off someone with LOTS and LOTS of cash and will file a lawsuit with the supreme courts... Class action that is...

    My suggestion is to report it to the BBB, the FTC and the FBI. Personally, I really like PayPal but this has given me a real sour taste in my mouth. Of course though, if you have a high refund rate and a lot of transactions have to go in mediation, you're just asking for it. Refunds = less money for PP and increased server resource costs without return, mediation = cost of mediator, time wasted... It's all about the all mighty dollar.
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  • Profile picture of the author imlifestyle
    I just had my paypal account frozen today.

    I`ve spent the whole day calling them but nothing.

    They froze all my accounts and said I wont be able to access my money for 180 days.

    After those 6 months ill be able to transpher my money to a bank account but I cant ever use paypal again.

    So basically I get my money in 6 months but I`ve been banned from paypal.

    It`s been the most stressful day of my life.
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    It is the corporate model that they operate by, PayPal, eBay, Google etc. You the merchant are the problem they need to contend with to serve their identified customers, their end user, not you scumb bag merchants that generate all that cash for them.

    For the life of me, I can't understand why those companies don't understand that it is a partnership, and without any of the three legs, the stool will collapse.

    I also had my account suspended and it took me a week to find out why. I had not sent in them some identity information when I had complained about a merchant not delivering merchandise I had paid for. At the time, I was doing a good thousand dollars a day, back in the early 2000's. Talk about a pain in the arse.
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    Tim Pears

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  • Profile picture of the author Ben Gordon
    It's true. PayPal is completely unreliable when you have big business. If you're earning more then 5K per month online, you can't exactly "trust" PayPal as they might freeze your account.

    When your business has grown, and you start making actual money online, I would suggest moving to another company. You can't necessarily just quit with PayPal because you'll lose out on a lot of customers. Which is why I recommend other companies like Plimus to help you maintain those customers.
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  • Profile picture of the author xxdksxx
    It's all confusing at this point, just have to sit back and see what happens I guess.
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  • Profile picture of the author rbeckwith
    Hi All,

    My advice as it was given to me from a very LARGE marketer friend and partner of mine.

    Don't keep a large balance in your Paypal account because at any moment they can hold it. If you do have a large balance, remove it in small increments daily as to not cause a red flag.

    If you are going to do a launch or any other high revenue activity, you should contact Paypal BEFORE you start raising red flags all over the place. If they are seeing a certain level from an account, then you explode from that level and start sucking the money out too quickly, you will get shut down....pretty much end of story.

    It would also be helpful not to have all of your transactions coming from sites that have a direct marketing salesletter....all processing companies hate those, even though they work well for us...Google hates them too(The are static and look scammy) as it was told to me from a Google employee.

    I am not by any means giving legal advice....just parroting was was told to me.

    Hope it helps,
    Rod
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    Rod Beckwith - JV, Super Affiliate & Product Expert
    Want to JV With Me? PM or goto http://mrjv.com
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