Warriors and other "Internet Marketers" Clogging Kindle With All Their SPAM...

126 replies
LINK - Spam clogging Amazon's Kindle self-publishing | Reuters


Knew this was coming....

Too many people thinking they can get rich quickly and easily by SPAMMING Kindle....

Personally, I don't know who to blame...the people doing it or the people selling them products promising EASY, autopilot riches with zero work.

I really wish Amazon would just crack down HARD on this nonsense...it's not good for their ebook business or their brand...and it's not good for serious Kindle authors and publishers who are now grouped in with spammers.


My prediction....

Eventually they will have almost no choice but to make publishers PAY to upload and publish a Kindle ebook.

I would have no problem with this as a serious publisher...I'm pretty sure most get-rich-quickers would HATE it...

Which is why I know it is the perfect solution.

Thoughts?
#clogging #internet marketers #kindle #spam #warriors
  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
    The product that they are talking didn't teach people to spam Amazon - They are just idiots.
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    • Profile picture of the author blueorca17
      Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

      The product that they are talking didn't teach people to spam Amazon - They are just idiots.
      I completely agree... The people spamming are trying to make a quick buck and don't care about the user experience, or how it will affect the future of kindle publishing. They're just living in the now so they can make money with little work. They spin old articles and then slap the books up there thinking that this kind of thing is perfectly OK. Their books suck, and are full of garbage. It's kinda sad, really. My advice is, don't write an e-book on something when you don't know what the heck you're talking about. Write something that will be of VALUE to buyers and write something that makes them want to read OTHER books by you... Write on a topic that you are PASSIONATE about, and know a LOT about. The better you write, and the higher quality the book is, the more money you will make and the more stable income you will have, and the more successful you'll be later on.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        If Amazon didn't want multiple copies of the same exact book with different authors, then they should be screening better. Many of the lazy "get-rich-quick" Kindle publishers don't even change the cover - you can't tell me that's difficult to screen out and stop?

        I'm not saying it is right to just take PLR books and upload them as is, either, so don't get me wrong. I just think that Amazon could have put a stop to a lot of it if they wanted to.

        Using PLR to create a Kindle book is not the problem here. When done properly, you would be hard-pressed to recognize the original. What's being done is the same darn thing people do online and wonder why they aren't making money - grab the rights, do no work at all and then try to sell the product.

        As a PLR wholesaler, that's fine. As a publisher of any type, that's just dumb. Or at the very least, not very effective.

        Amazon could very easily put a program in place to screen for duplicate books and solve the whole problem. Why isn't anyone screaming about Amazon not worrying about their own end users?

        Oh yeah... it's easier to blame the marketers for somehow "causing" people to lose any common sense they might have been born with.
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        • Profile picture of the author Vanessa Reece
          Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

          If Amazon didn't want multiple copies of the same exact book with different authors, then they should be screening better. Many of the lazy "get-rich-quick" Kindle publishers don't even change the cover - you can't tell me that's difficult to screen out and stop?

          I'm not saying it is right to just take PLR books and upload them as is, either, so don't get me wrong. I just think that Amazon could have put a stop to a lot of it if they wanted to.

          Using PLR to create a Kindle book is not the problem here. When done properly, you would be hard-pressed to recognize the original. What's being done is the same darn thing people do online and wonder why they aren't making money - grab the rights, do no work at all and then try to sell the product.

          As a PLR wholesaler, that's fine. As a publisher of any type, that's just dumb. Or at the very least, not very effective.

          Amazon could very easily put a program in place to screen for duplicate books and solve the whole problem. Why isn't anyone screaming about Amazon not worrying about their own end users?

          Oh yeah... it's easier to blame the marketers for somehow "causing" people to lose any common sense they might have been born with.
          I've run out of thanks Tina but completely agree with you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Candela
      Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

      The product that they are talking didn't teach people to spam Amazon - They are just idiots.
      I agree,I think the laziness factor and not following the product suggestions are what is leading to this being mentioned in the mainstream media. Sad.
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  • Profile picture of the author pdrs
    As long as they keep the price reasonable I see no reason why they shouldn't ask for a few bucks to publish a book. It'll keep the spammers out and still keep it profitable for those publishing useful information.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Ed,
      Thoughts?
      When Amazon starts removing books from the Kindle marketplace, we'll hear dozens of screams lasting weeks at a time about how evil and dictatorial Amazon is. Anyone who points out that this is just a sensible business decision will be accused of being a fascist or a sheep. Some legitimate authors will get caught in the crossfire, which will be used by the crap-peddlers as proof that it's not about quality.

      Blah blah blah. Same old s___.

      Won't be as bad with Amazon as with so many others, but it'll still create the howls of protest.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        When Amazon starts removing books from the Kindle marketplace .... Some legitimate authors will get caught in the crossfire
        Very frustrating. There are hordes of idiots out to destroy anything useful. Can you imagine what the WSO forum would look like today if it were free?

        It's why Google and others ban wide without warning. They're simply fed up with all the crap.
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        • Profile picture of the author gefflong
          Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

          Very frustrating. There are hordes of idiots out to destroy anything useful. Can you imagine what the WSO forum would look like today if it were free?

          It's why Google and others ban wide without warning. They're simply fed up with all the crap.
          Which also isn't a very good answer.

          As someone who had his Google Adwords account banned without warning, let me say it was neither fair nor fun and I have no recourse. I didn't break any rules, but got banned anyway because 5 years after I ran a few one day ads (that were ok to run)... Google decided a couple months ago they didn't think those sites were up to their standards and banned my account for running an ad for them 5 years ago. Even though they only decided two months ago they didn't like those sites.

          Yeah. Insane.

          I only mention that because I would hate to see Amazon just pull a "google" and ban without warning or recourse when many legitimate people may be harmed.

          I'm thinking a $20 fee to upload a book seems fair. It's not a huge amount, but for anyone spamming content it would probably become too expensive to upload 50 crap PLR books. I doubt they would want to take the $1000 hit.

          Geff
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      • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
        Could not have said it better myself Paul. We were discussing this just this past weekend and I thinks its just a matter of time - not a matter of if - before Amazon starts dropping titles. They've already moved to limit public domain works - PLR/MMR will be next IMHO.
        best,
        --Jack

        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Ed,When Amazon starts removing books from the Kindle marketplace, we'll hear dozens of screams lasting weeks at a time about how evil and dictatorial Amazon is. Anyone who points out that this is just a sensible business decision will be accused of being a fascist or a sheep. Some legitimate authors will get caught in the crossfire, which will be used by the crap-peddlers as proof that it's not about quality.

        Blah blah blah. Same old s___.

        Won't be as bad with Amazon as with so many others, but it'll still create the howls of protest.


        Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Ed, When Amazon starts removing books from the Kindle marketplace, we'll hear dozens of screams lasting weeks at a time about how evil and dictatorial Amazon is. Anyone who points out that this is just a sensible business decision will be accused of being a fascist or a sheep. Some legitimate authors will get caught in the crossfire, which will be used by the crap-peddlers as proof that it's not about quality.

        Blah blah blah. Same old s___.

        Won't be as bad with Amazon as with so many others, but it'll still create the howls of protest.


        Paul

        I guess you might as well start calling me a sheep, because I applaud the outing of this practice and the eventual demise of posting PLR and MRR content to that marketplace.

        Some will call me an arrogant and pompous ass, because I am a "writer"... And that will be a.o.k. with me...

        After all, what is wrong with expecting writers to write books, and non-writers to find another business model? LOL



        And Paul...

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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          After all, what is wrong with expecting writers to write books, and non-writers to find another business model? LOL
          Publishing is not writing. Some writers would really rather stick to the writing and not have to do the publishing, too. It's a perfectly valid non-writing business model to buy the rights to publishable works from writers.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Ed,When Amazon starts removing books from the Kindle marketplace, we'll hear dozens of screams lasting weeks at a time about how evil and dictatorial Amazon is. Anyone who points out that this is just a sensible business decision will be accused of being a fascist or a sheep. Some legitimate authors will get caught in the crossfire, which will be used by the crap-peddlers as proof that it's not about quality.

        Blah blah blah. Same old s___.

        Won't be as bad with Amazon as with so many others, but it'll still create the howls of protest.


        Paul
        Again Paul with the "Filters". Opinions____________ everybody has one, and no matter which way you go you will run into a different one.
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  • Lol! You better bump that WSO of yours while its still viable
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    I agree with you 100%!

    I hate going in and seeing 50 listings of the same thing that shows the original ebook cover from the MRR product. I mean for crying out loud at least change the cover folks!

    It would be great if they could compare the books to see if there was the exact same thing on there already and then prohibit listing it. With Public Domain, I think you have to add some value to it in order to list on there now and it should be the same for PLR and MRR.

    Lee
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    • Profile picture of the author edlewis
      Originally Posted by cashcow View Post

      I agree with you 100%!

      I hate going in and seeing 50 listings of the same thing that shows the original ebook cover from the MRR product. I mean for crying out loud at least change the cover folks!

      It would be great if they could compare the books to see if there was the exact same thing on there already and then prohibit listing it. With Public Domain, I think you have to add some value to it in order to list on there now and it should be the same for PLR and MRR.

      Lee
      Yes...with Public Domain, there are new rules implemented in May....

      The email publishers received from Amazon....

      "Hello,
      We're implementing a new standard policy to eliminate the problem caused by multiple, undifferentiated copies of public domain titles in our Kindle catalog. Our vision is to improve the customer experience by having high-quality editions of every public domain title in the world available on Kindle, including a free edition of each.

      We will soon stop accepting and selling duplicate, undifferentiated versions of public domain titles, but will continue to offer differentiated versions, such as unique translations or illustrated versions. Please make sure the titles that are live on your bookshelf adhere to the following criteria by May 4, 2011:

      • It is a unique translation
      • It contains annotations (unique, hand-crafted additional content including study guides, literary critiques, detailed biographies, or detailed historical context)
      • It includes 10 or more unique illustrations

      If your title(s) conform to one of the criteria listed above, please make sure that each title clearly describes in the title field how it is differentiated: (Translated), (Annotated), or (Illustrated). Please also provide a more detailed explanation in the product description field about how your title is unique. This should be in bullet point format (maximum 80 characters) and added to the beginning of your product description.

      Thanks for your cooperation. If you have further questions, you can write to us at kdp-public-domain@amazon.com. Please allow up to 7 days for a response."
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  • Profile picture of the author KenJ
    Yes I was Expecting this.

    I have 3 of my own books on the Kindle system - they are not PLR.
    I resisted the temptation to follow the WSO that says put up many plr books a day.
    I think that accounts that spam the system will be frozen .

    There is however a further issue.

    Ignorance of copyright. Many people seem to have no idea and no respect for copyright. They just use other people's work for their own ends. This will end in tears somewhere. I just hope the correct people are caught and not the original writers.

    Kenj
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    I think Amazon has to take some lumps for this too. I read last week they have fewer than a million titles at this point and are hungry for inventory. So I'd say there's a bit of greed involved here too.

    The upside is they'll eventually have enough decent stuff to sell and will restrict or eliminate the Spam. I'd imagine they're getting at least some complaints about all the cheesy stuff posted at this point. Maybe more complaints would help.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      I think Amazon has to take some lumps for this too. I read last week they have fewer than a million titles at this point and are hungry for inventory. So I'd say there's a bit of greed involved here too.

      The upside is they'll eventually have enough decent stuff to sell and will restrict or eliminate the Spam. I'd imagine they're getting at least some complaints about all the cheesy stuff posted at this point. Maybe more complaints would help.
      There is always greed involved in this situations...

      Look at sites like:

      Squidoo
      EZA
      YouTube

      All victims of their own greed and others willingness to join the party.

      Welcome to the party, Amazon
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    • Profile picture of the author Heidi White
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      I think Amazon has to take some lumps for this too. I read last week they have fewer than a million titles at this point and are hungry for inventory. So I'd say there's a bit of greed involved here too.
      Hungry for inventory - huh?

      I remember when a fiction writer couldn't get anything but rejection letters. Now, I could probably pull out all my old rejected novels - even the lame ones - and at least get them read on Kindle.

      Strange times.
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by MostlyHarmless View Post

        Hungry for inventory - huh?

        I remember when a fiction writer couldn't get anything but rejection letters. Now, I could probably pull out all my old rejected novels - even the lame ones - and at least get them read on Kindle.

        Strange times.
        You're absolutely right. I've got plenty of excellent material sitting on my hard drive I've never offered before. I'm going through it all, editing and updating and submitting. That's what this thing is all about.
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  • Profile picture of the author GameVoid
    What did you think was going to happen? If there's a new innovation on the web that IM'ers can flood with crap in their never ending search for EASY CASH PROFITS ON AUTOPILOT!!! then they will do it.

    If Amazon was smart they would make you pay $1.00 to list a title on Kindle. I think that would keep 99% of the bottom feeders out of the pool.
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    • Profile picture of the author edlewis
      Originally Posted by GameVoid View Post

      What did you think was going to happen? If there's a new innovation on the web that IM'ers can flood with crap in their never ending search for EASY CASH PROFITS ON AUTOPILOT!!! then they will do it.

      If Amazon was smart they would make you pay $1.00 to list a title on Kindle. I think that would keep 99% of the bottom feeders out of the pool.
      $1....?

      I was thinking somewhere more in the range of the $39 CreateSpace charges as part of their "Pro Plan"....

      Not sure $1 is enough...

      There needs to be some barrier of entry. That alone would eliminate 95% of those uploading crap.

      The whole goal of this spamming is to upload hundreds of books and hope you make one or two sales of each every month....

      If there was a fee to upload an ebook....most of these spammers would disappear because their profits would too.
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    • Profile picture of the author gie grace
      Originally Posted by GameVoid View Post

      What did you think was going to happen? If there's a new innovation on the web that IM'ers can flood with crap in their never ending search for EASY CASH PROFITS ON AUTOPILOT!!! then they will do it.

      If Amazon was smart they would make you pay $1.00 to list a title on Kindle. I think that would keep 99% of the bottom feeders out of the pool.
      a dollar? are you kidding?:rolleyes:

      If spammers can get earn at least $10 out of it, then charging a dollar for listing won't stop them, not 99% that is. Probably more like 25-50%

      What Amazon should do is to check for duplicate content before allowing a product to be published (I bet there's a software to automate the process), and put a "user vote/report/feedback" system to help Amazon weed out low-quality ebooks.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Coleman
        Originally Posted by gie grace View Post


        What Amazon should do is to check for duplicate content before allowing a product to be published (I bet there's a software to automate the process), and put a "user vote/report/feedback" system to help Amazon weed out low-quality ebooks.
        I agree. Use technology to combat this. The solution to email spam was filtering and human feedback. The B-hat people have plenty of money and an upload fee won't stop them.

        I'm thinking Amazon will use the same approach to PLR that they are now using on Public Domain works.

        Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Linda_C
        Originally Posted by gie grace View Post

        What Amazon should do is to check for duplicate content before allowing a product to be published (I bet there's a software to automate the process)
        To be a bit radical, why should Amazon have to check for duplicate content? Sure, they could use OCR or text reader software, but then people would figure out how to get around it. And people would sell programs teaching the "loopholes" just like they do with Google and everywhere else they can find a loophole.

        Everyone uploading books is an adult, yes?
        I think they should put the onus back on the uploader.

        If the rules say no duplicate content, public reporting of dupe copies and a very stiff fine would prohibit more people than playing the software and loophole game.
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    • Profile picture of the author 1shotoffers
      Originally Posted by GameVoid View Post

      What did you think was going to happen? If there's a new innovation on the web that IM'ers can flood with crap in their never ending search for EASY CASH PROFITS ON AUTOPILOT!!! then they will do it.

      If Amazon was smart they would make you pay $1.00 to list a title on Kindle. I think that would keep 99% of the bottom feeders out of the pool.
      It's only a matter of time before Amazon joins the ranks of everyone else like Android and Apple Applications markets for example where they will charge a "developer" (or in this case author....) fee, and I doubt it will be $1.....more like $25+ is my bet with a maximum simutaneous listing limit.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by 1shotoffers View Post

        It's only a matter of time before Amazon joins the ranks of everyone else like Android and Apple Applications markets for example where they will charge a "developer" (or in this case author....) fee, and I doubt it will be $1.....more like $25+ is my bet with a maximum simutaneous listing limit.
        Fees won't stop the spammers.

        Some type of throttling system, which controls the rate at which titles could be added, might help. At least until some bright coder figures out how to automate things and put a timer on them.

        But limiting submissions to one per week or so might at least slow things down and make the screening process more efficient.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jack Duncan
    Interesting article...thanks for posting.

    Kindle spam has been growing fast in the last six months because several online courses and, ironically, ebooks have been released that teach people how to create a Kindle book per day, according to Paul Wolfe, an Internet marketing specialist.
    Isn't it a bit of a stretch to call this SPAM?

    I own a kindle, and unlike my email account, I've never seen any unsolicited titles just popping up as ebooks to read.

    Seems like the definition of SPAM is sliding just a bit.

    What's also interesting is how this piece talks quite a bit about PLR content being used, regardless of the quality, but no mention is made about Public Domain works.

    Just did a quick check and it appears there are 331 versions of Huckleberry Finn available in the Kindle Store, many of which appear to have nothing unique beyond the cover page.

    Is that considered SPAM then too?

    (Kidding, of course)
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  • Profile picture of the author winebuddy
    Interesting how our definition of "spam" is sliding.

    If someone writes a book and doesn't want to go thru the hassle of publishing it anywhere - they have the right to sell complete rights to the book to anyone. And the person buying the book gets "private label rights" and can pretty much do whatever they want with it.

    Even John Grishom could do that. In fact, past presidents have hired "ghostwriters" then paid the ghostwriter for complete rights to the book. In essence - PLR.

    A broad stroke claim that all PLR is "spam" ignores both the definition of spam and the definition of PLR.

    Also - the article you linked to says "boxed set of DVDs"? LMAO - really? Where can I buy them?
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    • Profile picture of the author edlewis
      I'm sorry but thousands of people all taking the SAME content and uploading it to Kindle is difficult to call anything but SPAM.

      Like I said, part of me feels many of those doing it are more naive than evil in all of this...

      Many of them are only doing it because someone has SOLD them on the idea that they can get RICH with no WORK doing this.
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      • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
        Originally Posted by edlewis View Post

        I'm sorry but thousands of people all taking the SAME content and uploading it to Kindle is difficult to call anything but SPAM.
        Totally agree with you there Ed.

        Like I said, part of me feels many of those doing it are more naive than evil in all of this...
        I try to never attribute to evil that which can be explained by ignorance (or stupidity).

        best,
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      • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
        Well... I happen to agree that that a 'storefront' (a place in which one showcases a product for sale) usually has a rent/mtg cost associated with it (even if the building is owned outright with no debt attached to it, there are always taxes, at least here in the U.S.) and therefore have no problem with paying said 'rent.'

        However, if you think payment will stop the junk, I say "have you ever seen a late night tv infomercial?"

        Those 'marketers' are paying big bucks, for 'air time' (visibility) to sell products to huge audiences, but how many of those infomercial products are pure garbage. (Note: I am NOT saying that all of them are. Some are, some aren't, and that is all a matter of perception, which you can read about in the Don Lapre thread)

        I am saying that charging a fee for it, simply ensures that only those with 'financial backing' can sell 'crap.'

        As an aside: paying a fee is still a superior choice than the alternative which is 'regulation.'

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    • Profile picture of the author gefflong
      Originally Posted by winebuddy View Post

      Interesting how our definition of "spam" is sliding.

      If someone writes a book and doesn't want to go thru the hassle of publishing it anywhere - they have the right to sell complete rights to the book to anyone. And the person buying the book gets "private label rights" and can pretty much do whatever they want with it.

      Even John Grishom could do that. In fact, past presidents have hired "ghostwriters" then paid the ghostwriter for complete rights to the book. In essence - PLR.

      A broad stroke claim that all PLR is "spam" ignores both the definition of spam and the definition of PLR.

      Also - the article you linked to says "boxed set of DVDs"? LMAO - really? Where can I buy them?
      Some of that makes sense, but I don't believe a President hiring a ghostwriter is PLR... It is what it is... ghostwriting. PLR would infer that more than just one person could own the rights to the Presidents book. That isn't what happens.
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    • Profile picture of the author edlewis
      Originally Posted by winebuddy View Post

      Even John Grishom could do that. In fact, past presidents have hired "ghostwriters" then paid the ghostwriter for complete rights to the book. In essence - PLR.
      Hardly a realistic comparison, Mike.

      Not really even remotely similar to PLR.

      This is not someone hiring a ghostwriter to write a book for them. That is something completely different.

      That is one piece of content sold with exclusive rights. In your "president" example, the ghostwriter is also using the life experiences and insights of the person he is ghostwriting for....

      And that book will be published by one person, not 500.

      I have NO problem with people who want to hire a ghostwriter to write a book for them and then publish it under their own name or a pen name. It has gone on for decades in publishing, long before ebooks.

      But PLR is not ghostwriting...

      PLR is like if John Grisham published his next book and then instead of selling it....he sold the Private Label Rights to it....to 500 or 1,000 people - who then all decided to upload it to Kindle.



      Originally Posted by winebuddy View Post

      A broad stroke claim that all PLR is "spam" ignores both the definition of spam and the definition of PLR.
      Not all PLR is SPAM...however, the way 95% of those who upload it to Kindle currently...certainly makes it look like nothing more than SPAM.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by winebuddy View Post

      Interesting how our definition of "spam" is sliding.
      Spam is anything I don't like placed anywhere I can see it.

      When you send me an email that I don't like, that's spam. Originally, of course, it was only spam if it was commercial email from someone I had never established a business relationship with - but today, spam includes anything at all from anyone at all that I just plain didn't want to get. If you send me bad news, that's spam.

      When you have a web page on the internet that I don't want to look at, and it comes up in my search results, that's also spam.

      When you are selling a product I don't want to buy, and it's on the page I'm looking at to find things I do want to buy, your product is spam.

      When you put an ad for something I don't want next to something I do want on the shelves at the grocery store - perhaps an ad for Triscuits placed near the cheese, when clearly I am buying cheese to put on my lasagna, not on crackers... and besides, I never eat cheese on Triscuits... that's spam, too.

      When you release a software update that I don't want to install, and your software asks me if I want to install it, guess what? Spam!

      I see it! I don't like it! It's spam!

      Well, I got your spam right here.


      If you want the government - and other people in general - to stop treating you like a child, you have to stop acting like one. Man up and stop bitching. If you go to Amazon's website and you can't find a good book because all the books suck, maybe you're just a pretentious douchebag.
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      • Profile picture of the author Page-One
        You don't see many (if any) spammy PLR physical books on Amazon. It costs a lot to produce a hard-copy book: editing, page layout, cover, proofing, printing, binding. Can run into the thousands.

        You also don't see many spammy (if any) PLR CreateSpace books on Amazon. You pay $39 to play on that field.

        But Kindle? It's absolutely over-run with multiple listings of the same PLR ebook: same title, same cheap "3-D" cover, same content...just a different author name. The cost to upload? Zip. Nada. Zilch.

        I totally agree it's past time for Amazon to crack down hard. I have some of my own Kindle books up...every word of which I wrote...and several more partially written. I've also bought a half dozen or so WSOs here on making Kindle profits. Many of them push hard the idea of cranking out PLR titles as fast as possible (not Ed Lewis's, though...the OP of this thread).

        At the risk of making "who knows" unhappy, I'd suggest that while Amazon needs to...and undoubtedly will...crack down hard soon on "junk" Kindle books, it might also be helpful if our very own Forum here tightened up on WSOs that advocate getting rich with Kindle by doing virtually nothing more than throwing up scores or hundreds of PLR ebooks with only the author changed.

        That's my story...and it's sticking to me.
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      • Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        If you want the government - and other people in general - to stop treating you like a child, you have to stop acting like one. Man up and stop bitching. If you go to Amazon's website and you can't find a good book because all the books suck, maybe you're just a pretentious douchebag.
        I'm not very sure I understand your point with that post of yours, but there's nothing to "man up" about here. The truth is that there's a quality service (Kindle library) being indeed ruined by spammers looking to make a quick (and almost blakc hat) dollar by spamming the bejesus out of it with their dubious PLR stuff.

        It's pretty much what happened with Craigslist a while back: a brilliant idea offering a quality service that almost got ruined by marketers spamming it with fake ads.
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

          The truth is that there's a quality service (Kindle library) being indeed ruined
          And therefore, we should ruin a different quality service (Kindle publishing).

          You don't care about the part where you can publish anything you want, so you'll happily trade it for the part you do care about - where it's faster and easier for you to read anything you want.

          But what you actually want is some kind of system where stuff you don't like is harder to publish, so there will be less of it. Because right now, it's too easy to publish stuff you don't like, so it's all in your way and stuff when you want to find something to read.
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    • Well, the boxed set is the images in your WSO I guess you should feel pretty important that a news source actually mentioned your product in it

      "Spam" is when it's abuse, to extremes, and not really contributing any significant value. While the first people to say submit a 'public domain works' could be considered to have been contributing value (i.e., the process of converting something from one source into a more easily accessible source), the next 99 people doing exactly the same thing aren't really at all. And people are 'spamming' kindle.

      And the fact is - a lot of people 'are' just piggybacking (a more accurate word might be 'leeching') on someone else's hard work to make a profit. The 'reasoning' used is that they are a 'publisher', and thereby can circumvent copyright laws which were intended to protect the original author because 'technically' the copyright laws allow that. While with copyright laws their is a time period (20 years I believe), it would be the similar to someone say purchasing 1000's wso's here, then uploading every single one of them to kindle saying they had the 'right' to do so, because they were 'republishing' it. That's not right. Or someone publishing a WSO on a 'black hat' forum. And I am sure most people would agree that is not right. And in particular, if they discovered it was their WSO, do everything possible to get it removed asap.

      As for PLR content, a lot of it actually is junk. Nonsensical junk whereby the author either has no clue what they are talking about although they may be a 'native' english speaker (i.e., as an extreme example an individual advising someone to take turpentine for a cold), or simply put existing content through a content spinner to resell it, so the phrase "The lazy cat jumped over the sleeping dog" might be 'translated' like "The dormant feline leaped above the passive canine". (And another 'spin' would possibly yield "The ineffectual tiger hopped there the inactive carnivore"). (Sheesh, it just occurred to me that someone will probably publish a 'new' "updated" version of publishing to Kindle... "Tired of getting public domain works rejected? Use a CONTENT SPINNER!"). Can you imagine trying to read a book with all that gobblygook?)

      Sadly, with the requirements outlined by amazon, probably what you'll get now is:

      a) Content spun junk
      b) Images inserted (randomly) from image repositories
      c) Bogus annotations (i.e., that don't really make sense unless someone actually reads it)

      etc, etc.

      But fact is, it has now become a spamming problem, so Amazon does need to take measures to clean it up.

      Originally Posted by winebuddy View Post

      Interesting how our definition of "spam" is sliding.

      If someone writes a book and doesn't want to go thru the hassle of publishing it anywhere - they have the right to sell complete rights to the book to anyone. And the person buying the book gets "private label rights" and can pretty much do whatever they want with it.

      Even John Grishom could do that. In fact, past presidents have hired "ghostwriters" then paid the ghostwriter for complete rights to the book. In essence - PLR.

      A broad stroke claim that all PLR is "spam" ignores both the definition of spam and the definition of PLR.

      Also - the article you linked to says "boxed set of DVDs"? LMAO - really? Where can I buy them?
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  • Profile picture of the author dremora
    Spam is the reason why it costs so much to post a WSO and why there are so many rules on Squidoo and other such sites. It pretty much ruins it for the decent people. Unfortunately many marketers out there teach people how to spam, catering tot he 'get rich quick' crowd, lazy idiots who want to make money without doing any work. You wouldn't believe the keywords bringing search traffic to my IM blog. 90% of the keywords are looking for ways to make money quick and without lifting a finger. The same crowd buys the products who teach them nasty spamming practices.

    Unfortunately this trend is evergreen and keeps producing hordes of locusts which ruin one pasture and hop on to the next. There is simply no end to it.
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  • Profile picture of the author AmandaT
    I figured they would eventually need to do this. It is bad for business to have a customer buy a book, look around and buy another book in the same niche, and realize they just bought two copies of the same book. It makes Amazon look bad. I understand that PLR is a great way to make a quick book, but even with a few quick changes, adding a chapter, rewriting parts, a PLR book can take on new life rather than being the same exact book on the marketplace multiple times.
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    • Profile picture of the author chumpschimps
      Originally Posted by AmandaT View Post

      I figured they would eventually need to do this. It is bad for business to have a customer buy a book, look around and buy another book in the same niche, and realize they just bought two copies of the same book. It makes Amazon look bad. I understand that PLR is a great way to make a quick book, but even with a few quick changes, adding a chapter, rewriting parts, a PLR book can take on new life rather than being the same exact book on the marketplace multiple times.
      I was looking for a book a few months ago and like the 'download the first chapter free' on Amazon. I downloaded the first chapter of 5 books, all with different titles and different covers, but 3 of them were exactly the same content.

      I agree, PLR can be a good way to help create products IF used as a starting point or basis to create your own product, but it's frustrating to see so many copies of the same thing for sale on Amazon, especially, as you say, anyone who doesn't realise could end up buying duplicates.
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  • Profile picture of the author pdrs
    hehe just got another WSO email in my inbox about how to publish on amazon using PLR.

    Whoever made the comparison about the president hiring a ghost writer and then buying the rights to internet PLR - thats about the least thought out comment I've heard on here... do you read what you type?

    PLR in this sense is NOTHING but SPAM - who can blame Amazon in the least.
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    • Profile picture of the author AmandaT
      Originally Posted by pdrs View Post

      hehe just got another WSO email in my inbox about how to publish on amazon using PLR.

      Whoever made the comparison about the president hiring a ghost writer and then buying the rights to internet PLR - thats about the least thought out comment I've heard on here... do you read what you type?

      PLR in this sense is NOTHING but SPAM - who can blame Amazon in the least.
      Maybe PLR used as-is... but PLR can be a great tool when used properly! The trick is to make it your own by changing and compiling it rather than using it as-is.
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  • Profile picture of the author WDM
    The way I solved this problem was to just never learn to read. Seems to be working so far. Schools is for fools =)
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  • Profile picture of the author BloggingPro
    Woohoo! Now that sword & sorcery fantasy romance novel I wrote a few months ago will finally be seen through all the ridiculous MMR & PLR products!

    More seriously with this kind of press Amazon is going to crackdown and crackdown hard. They are in a battle of digital content supremacy with Apple. Amazon's worst nightmare is having their device being known for SPAM.

    If that article gets picked up by news outlets across the world you better believe the crackdown is going to happen sooner, rather than later.
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  • Profile picture of the author MissLizzie
    For me, it's interesting that the article talks about 'spam' as PLR books, but then, it gives an example of someone having published an author's fiction novel under another name, without their consent. But anyway, that's a whole different issue of stealing someone copyright....

    My guess is that Amazon are going to take a similar position to Smashwords with regards to content, banning PLR outright and threating to close down your account if you don't comply. Now, while I appreciate Ed's point that there's PLR and there's PLR, as a customer, how can you really judge the value that someone's adding to a generic ebook with an extra chapter or a little bit more content. There's also an issue that many PLR ebooks on Kindle are badly formatted and I think it'd help everyone if some stricter guidelines were introduced when publishers upload to KDP.

    Sorry if this is unpopular...but hey, that may well be what happens!
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  • Profile picture of the author eibhlin
    I'm on the fence. I want every serious author to have access to being published, and -- in today's economic climate -- I don't want financial barriers imposed. (Yes, the operative phrase is "serious author.")

    On the other hand, I don't want customers to become so disgusted by junk sold in Kindle format, they quit buying... or lose patience when they have to weed through masses of PLR.

    At the moment, I'm inclined to agree with Ed that Amazon should require a financial commitment with each title. However, instead of requiring it up-front, creating a financial barrier, perhaps Amazon could keep the first $X of income from each Kindle title, as a listing fee or a kind of Pro Plan for Kindle.

    I'd be fine with investing in a $39 Pro Plan for each of my digital titles, on a pay-as-you-go basis.

    Bookstores feature new books briefly. If the books don't sell, they're taken off the prime shelf space and relegated to the remaindered areas. Maybe Amazon could base something on that model?

    Meanwhile, The Atlantic has picked up the Reuters article and added their own views. With The Atlantic adding fuel to the fire, it greatly increases the likelihood of Amazon doing something about this.

    Spam 'Books' Flooding Kindle Store - Alexis Madrigal - Technology - The Atlantic

    I think the PLR glut at Kindle is probably short-term. When people realize junky PLR books don't really provide them with that magic push-button income, many people will move on to the next "get rich quick" trend. I hope so, anyway.

    If PLR -- intact or spun -- continues to flood Kindle, etc., I don't see any easy answers to this problem. However, both Amazon and CreateSpace are working with digital files, and I think screening for duplicate content will solve much of the problem.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kneb Knebaih
    *

    That´s the problem with those WSOs and "products" that teach newbies how to upload PLR ebay crap and be rich by tomorrow...

    Even if you take the time to rework and combine those, its still crap anyways.

    As with anything, the better the content the better the service you are offering, the better the outcome.


    And with PD is the same thing (although there´s a big difference between PD and PLR crap, of course). PD is way ahead of PLR, there´s no comparison, simply because of who originally wrote the content in the first place, but there´s no point in uploading/publishing the same copy of Huckleberry Finn if there are other 1000s of the exact same already.

    So you still have to rework, combine, illustrate, or make your own version and offer high quality.

    Spammers don´t want that, because that requires work, and creativity.

    BUT:

    Let the spammers continue with its game (uploading same PLR crap over and over), and Amazon and the world will take care of them properly, the faster the better, and this will indeed benefit the rest of us (good content publishers).

    Amazon and Apple will treat us as gold (they are starting to do so)... thanks to them.


    : )
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    This just in...

    The promotions are starting to hit my inbox. Piggybacking on the controversy around this report, SOME marketers are actively trying to sell the "cheap" strategy to people who might be reading the article and saying "I wish I knew how to make money from spamming Amazon."

    The products they're promoting aren't bad. Those products do, in fact, tell you how to publish a quality product on Kindle. But they're being PROMOTED as ways you can publish crap with little or no work, which of course they can be used to do as well.

    This is why people think marketers are scum.
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    • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
      McD's, BK, and Wendy's... they all make burgers from Chopped Meat.
      They all have toppings, but the main differences in them are

      branding
      pricing

      I certainly hope that the 'food police' don't decide that only McD's should be allowed to sell burgers.

      -Dani
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

        McD's, BK, and Wendy's... they all make burgers from Chopped Meat.
        More accurately, they make burgers from chopped USDA inspected beef.

        It is illegal for someone to say "why, Alpo is also chopped meat" and begin selling fried Alpo.

        I'm not suggesting we need laws about what kind of books one can publish; the first amendment sort of gets in the way, there. But Amazon can and should enact some standards around what they will and will not publish, since the internet community has clearly demonstrated they have absolutely no standards around what they will and will not TRY to publish.

        Oh, and all the people saying "just make people pay a little money" have clearly missed the reality that the CreateSpace books published by marketers are also largely crap.
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    • Profile picture of the author eibhlin
      Yes, that's disappointing on so many levels. *sigh*

      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      This just in...

      The promotions are starting to hit my inbox. Piggybacking on the controversy around this report, SOME marketers are actively trying to sell the "cheap" strategy to people who might be reading the article and saying "I wish I knew how to make money from spamming Amazon."

      The products they're promoting aren't bad. Those products do, in fact, tell you how to publish a quality product on Kindle. But they're being PROMOTED as ways you can publish crap with little or no work, which of course they can be used to do as well.

      This is why people think marketers are scum.
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  • Profile picture of the author RustyF
    I have two ebooks that I wrote on Amazon.

    I had to under price my book because of Amazon's royalty system. That royalty system is a major factor behind the spam.

    If I sell my eBook on Amazon for $27, Amazon keeps 65% of the sales. If I sell the same eBook for $9.99 they usually get only 30% or maybe 35%, I forget the exact number. I have to sell three more than twice the number of books if I raise my price above $9.99 and if i raise the price, I'm going to sell fewer books. My only option was to sell for less and not provide the same level of one on one help after the purchase for those that buy my product for Kindle. Which is really a shame, it is so much easier to read a book on a Kindle or Kindle for PC than it is to read PDF which is a real pain in the butt.

    I don't know, but that seems to encourage me to want to take a PLR product that I didn't spend 100s of hours working on.

    For that reason, Amazon does deserve some of the blame. Actually, a lot of it.

    Adding a fee on top of this royalty scheme would have prevented me from adding my book. The niche for my product is pretty small though. If I had a wider market I might but with my current products, it is a small market and I sell far more on my website.

    I already think I should just pull the product from Amazon and I very well might as it is.

    I don't think selling PLR is spam but I'm more old school on my thinking of spam. Someone created a course on selling PLR on Kindle? I thought of that one myself. Didn't do it, don't have time. I found one PLR though that I think is worth of it. Just don't have time, probably a thousand of them already up anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author gefflong
    Originally Posted by ncmedia View Post

    Food for thought: Has adding a price to clickbank, wso's, google ads, flippa, etc. stopped spam/scams?

    I agree that the system will sort itself out. Seems the whole industry is going through so much BS it's just a matter of time before this whole 'cleansing' cycle takes full effect on all the tier 1 sites. Watch the next 24 months you guys are going to see a lot of changes - not in our favor - from restrictions to liabilities to making it incrementally impossible to make money online under the guise of cleansing and security.

    Tic-toc.
    Nothing can "stop" spam... I'm sure adding a price has cut down on the number of spam/scams in the WSO section.

    I seriously don't think you'd want to see what the WSO section would look like if it was free.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Hooper
    The people claiming they're making a lot of money with Kindle are also selling "Make Money with Kindle" books.

    Think about that. If you had something that really worked, would you sell all your secrets for $25?

    A $.99 Kindle book, which is what the price for any of this PLR stuff is going for, will make you $.35 in royalties. That's 75 sales to equal every $25 "Kindle Secrets" book you sell on Warrior Forum.

    Which is easier?

    Don't believe the hype. Much like the iPhone App Store, there was a time when you could get in on Kindle and make a few bucks, but that day is over. The buyers are getting smarter and they're wanting higher quality content, which they're finally getting now that major publishers are coming around.

    On iPhone, programs like Angry Birds dominate; not iFart.

    Same thing is has happened with Kindle. People don't want something written by a low-budget ghostwriter.

    THE BIG LESSON - Just because you may FEEL like you're working or that you have a real business doesn't mean that either is happening.

    Move along, people. Nothing to see here.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by David Hooper View Post

      If you had something that really worked, would you sell all your secrets for $25?
      See, that's what you don't seem to get.

      Selling all your secrets for $25 is something that really works.

      So you're essentially asking "If you had something that really worked, would you do something else that really worked?"

      Well, yes. Yes, I would. Because I like doing things that really work, and I'll do as many of them as I can.

      Here's something to consider. If I figure out how to do something anyone can do with the proper checklist and instructions, I can outsource it to anyone by just making that checklist and writing down those instructions.

      It's reasonably simple to tidy up the checklist and instructions enough to sell it as a $25 product.

      So whereas I could just keep it a secret, I could also get paid $25 a pop by a couple hundred people for doing something I was going to do anyway.

      Which is more than enough to pay my outsourcer for doing this thing that really works.

      So I get to sit on my arse sipping iced tea in the backyard while my outsourcer makes me money and a bunch of customers pay me money.

      Yeah. Sounds awfully stupid to me. Who would want to do that?
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Oh, and adding a price would be fine. It'd sill be FREE MARKET. I just don't want thought controllers at Amazon reading and silencing. That's REALLY what the media and gov't will want. The WSO section is a great example and balance of open free market cooperation.
        Two things. First: Leave the politics out. The discussion may or may not be valid, but it's not allowed here. The tone turns nasty every time, and that helps no-one.

        Second: If Amazon appoints the "thought controllers" and tells them what the priorities are based on their profit goals, that's still part of a free market.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author HigherPrThanGod
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Two things. First: Leave the politics out. The discussion may or may not be valid, but it's not allowed here. The tone turns nasty every time, and that helps no-one.

          Second: If Amazon appoints the "thought controllers" and tells them what the priorities are based on their profit goals, that's still part of a free market.


          Paul
          I can't respond without it being political. So anyway, the weather's been hot... Ugh, I hate small talk.
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        • Profile picture of the author research
          I knew it was going to happen . . . I just did not know when.

          How folks thought they could be a success by slapping a dozen or so plr articles together and calling it an eBook to post on the Kindle Marketplace I will never understand.

          What's more I can't get my head around the fact that people are paying good money to purchase ebook readers to download this kind of garbage. I just don't get it.

          Spam on the go.

          Clearly to me, to meet market demands and publishers requirements the bar has got to be lifted some, and these "slap it together" guys must raise the standard of their output.

          I guess they must try harder.
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      • Profile picture of the author David Hooper
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        See, that's what you don't seem to get.

        Selling all your secrets for $25 is something that really works.

        So you're essentially asking "If you had something that really worked, would you do something else that really worked?"

        Well, yes. Yes, I would. Because I like doing things that really work, and I'll do as many of them as I can.
        I do get it.

        If you have a valuable skill, like being able to get a #1 position on Google. Why would you add to your competition by selling something that will make you less money and add to your competition?

        You mentioned selling about 200 "secrets" books. At $25/each, that's $5000. Not that much money to flood a successful business with competition, if you ask me. Especially when you consider all your customers are dealing with the same PLR that you are. That's really shooting yourself in the foot.

        So I call shenanigans.

        Look up "Amazon System" on here. That was popular two years ago and people were swearing by it, even though they hadn't had any success yet, because putting books on Amazon FEELS like you're doing something. Check the more recent comments, after the hype had died down.
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        • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
          The whole notion that selling business plans or ideas or systems or methods or whatever is dumb because it increases competition is baloney.

          Know why? There are a couple of reasons. First, there's a massive market out there and plenty of room for people willing to do the work. But that's not the real reason.

          I attended a seminar years ago and got friendly with one of the guys at the back table where they sold the courses and tapes and all the rest. I asked the guy if he had any stats on how many people actually put the methods to work. He said he did.

          He'd been in the seminar business for more than 20 years and had seen several studies on the subject. He told me only 3% of people actually make any money from implementing an idea. He said only 10% even look at the material after they get it home.

          He told me that his employer, a big name real estate guru, once sold a tape set where the second tape was accidentally left blank. After selling nearly 400 of these sets they had only two complaints about the blank tape. Two.

          That says a lot about the info industry and people in general. You don't have to believe a word of this but I do. That's why I have no trouble at all sharing any good business model. Again, there's a big enough marketplace for everyone. And next, people are in love with the idea of success but not necessarily the effort it takes to get it.
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          • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
            Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

            The whole notion that selling business plans or ideas or systems or methods or whatever is dumb because it increases competition is baloney.

            Know why? There are a couple of reasons. First, there's a massive market out there and plenty of room for people willing to do the work. But that's not the real reason.

            I attended a seminar years ago and got friendly with one of the guys at the back table where they sold the courses and tapes and all the rest. I asked the guy if he had any stats on how many people actually put the methods to work. He said he did.

            He'd been in the seminar business for more than 20 years and had seen several studies on the subject. He told me only 3% of people actually make any money from implementing an idea. He said only 10% even look at the material after they get it home.

            He told me that his employer, a big name real estate guru, once sold a tape set where the second tape was accidentally left blank. After selling nearly 400 of these sets they had only two complaints about the blank tape. Two.

            That says a lot about the info industry and people in general. You don't have to believe a word of this but I do. That's why I have no trouble at all sharing any good business model. Again, there's a big enough marketplace for everyone. And next, people are in love with the idea of success but not necessarily the effort it takes to get it.

            Was it a Ron Legrand seminar?

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            • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
              Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

              Was it a Ron Legrand seminar?


              Nope. It was the guy who put the seminar business one everyone's radar, Robert Allen. His 1980 smash hit, Nothing Down, was the #1 financial best seller for more than 25 years. Dave Del Dotto, followed Allen and then the field got pretty crowded.

              I spent $5000 on a 4-day seminar offered by Robert Allen in the late 80s and flipped more than 60 properties three years later. Money well spent. There was another guy named Mark Haroldson who was one of the very early pioneers of the real estate seminar business. Robert Allen was one of his students. Wade Cook was also in that crowd. Almost all the early RE seminar guys were out of Utah back then. Cook was actually from Tacoma, Washington.

              I spoke to Haroldson on the phone a few times. He told me he got his start “info marketing” when he took a class by some crusty old dude in the 1960s. The guy is sort of a legend but I don’t recall his name at the moment. Joe Karbo was also in that very class. The “Advertorial” became very popular shortly after that.

              Haroldson sold many of his business assets to Ron LeGrand in the mid 1990s. Those included a massive list and a quarterly publication called Financial Freedom Report, a how-to invest in real estate magazine. I got my start as a professional writer writing for FFR. It was a print publication with a glossy cover. Very nicely done. LeGrand came along and started using his own people to write and publish it. Nothing lasts forever.
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              • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
                Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post


                Nope. It was the guy who put the seminar business one everyone's radar, Robert Allen. His 1980 smash hit, Nothing Down, was the #1 financial best seller for more than 25 years. Dave Del Dotto, followed Allen and then the field got pretty crowded.

                I spent $5000 on a 4-day seminar offered by Robert Allen in the late 80s and flipped more than 60 properties three years later. Money well spent. There was another guy named Mark Haroldson who was one of the very early pioneers of the real estate seminar business. Robert Allen was one of his students. Wade Cook was also in that crowd. Almost all the early RE seminar guys were out of Utah back then. Cook was actually from Tacoma, Washington.

                I spoke to Haroldson on the phone a few times. He told me he got his start "info marketing" when he took a class by some crusty old dude in the 1960s. The guy is sort of a legend but I don't recall his name at the moment. Joe Karbo was also in that very class. The "Advertorial" became very popular shortly after that.

                Haroldson sold many of his business assets to Ron LeGrand in the mid 1990s. Those included a massive list and a quarterly publication called Financial Freedom Report, a how-to invest in real estate magazine. I got my start as a professional writer writing for FFR. It was a print publication with a glossy cover. Very nicely done. LeGrand came along and started using his own people to write and publish it. Nothing lasts forever.

                WOW! I had totally forgotten the names Robert Allen and Dave Del Dotto until you just mentioned them. I read some of Wade Cooks' stuff, but he never did 'jive' with me. I don't know the name Mark Haroldson or Joe Karbo, but I do know the Advertorial well. (Now, online, they're called "Flogs"... LOL... oh how the more things change, the more they stay the same. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

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              • Profile picture of the author Page-One
                Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

                Joe Karbo was also in that very class.
                Ah, yes...Joe of "The Lazy Man's Way to Riches." The guy who once came by a stash of glow-in-the-dark Christmas ornaments and made some serious bank with his ad: "The Fun Begins When the Lights Go Out."

                More real marketers like Joe, please...and fewer bandwagoners cranking out non-creative, poorly written Junkness.
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        • Profile picture of the author martbost
          I agree that it was a matter of time before the "Marketing Maggots" started spewing their entire PLR collection As-Is onto the Kindle store. It really just chaps my hide!!!

          I have been publishing books on Amazon for the Kindle for about 9 months now. I have been slowly but surely gaining some ground with my sales. I truly take the time to have quality book covers created and do the SEO and Market research to try and release a quality book in the right places. It just annoys the crap out of me when a a wannabe Internet Marketer reads the highlights out of a good WSO or established publishing method and they cut all the corners. It ultimately ruins it for the rest of us.

          I am at a point where I would gladly pay $50 or so per month for a pro membership or similar on Amazon to help weed out the weak. I can even see paying a publishing fee of up to $5 or so, knowing I am going to make it back if I did a good job on my research.

          I really hope that Amazon will begin pulling titles that are not unique. I personally use PLR content all time, but I actually spend the time to organize it well and rewrite and spin what I use. I also add paragraphs and information in to "fill the gaps" on articles that don't transition well to the next one.

          Well...that's enough soapboxing for me....I just had to weigh in on this.

          Marty
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        • Originally Posted by David Hooper View Post

          If you have a valuable skill, like being able to get a #1 position on Google. Why would you add to your competition by selling something that will make you less money and add to your competition?
          Because it will NOT make you less money. Why do you think consulting companies like KPMG or Ernest & Young exist? because it's easier to package a "system" into a product/service and sell it to the masses, than to actually exploit the system yourself.

          It's all about leverage: You can either A) do what you do by yourself, or B) sell what you do to thousands. Which one do you think would bring more money?
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            Interesting article...and reactions.

            First, to the folks who want to nitpick over the definition of Spam, I refer you to the eminent scholar Willie (the Shake) Speare - I think Thad knows him - who said, "A turd by any other name still stinks."

            Amazon will crack down, the only questions are how hard and when. Anyone want to put an over/under line on the number of minutes before someone starts a thread whining about "freedom of the press"?

            What they don't seem to remember is that the freedom of the press belongs to the owner of the press, to publish as they please without government interference. That would include the right to not publish your crappy ebook, whether compiled, PLR, PD or just your own digital vomit.

            As for barriers to entry, fees won't work. Nor will arbitrary requirements like having an original work on another platform. Remember, these folks are not truly lazy - it does take some effort to upload all of this crap. Some simply don't know any better and won't learn. Some get a kick out of 'sticking it to the man' or 'screwing with the system'.

            If articles like the one linked here cause Amazon to open their eyes to the idea that a warehouse full of rotten fruit won't sell, more power to them.
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  • Profile picture of the author HigherPrThanGod
    Originally Posted by edlewis View Post

    LINK - Spam clogging Amazon's Kindle self-publishing | Reuters


    Knew this was coming....

    Too many people thinking they can get rich quickly and easily by SPAMMING Kindle....

    Personally, I don't know who to blame...the people doing it or the people selling them products promising EASY, autopilot riches with zero work.

    I really wish Amazon would just crack down HARD on this nonsense...it's not good for their ebook business or their brand...and it's not good for serious Kindle authors and publishers who are now grouped in with spammers.


    My prediction....

    Eventually they will have almost no choice but to make publishers PAY to upload and publish a Kindle ebook.

    I would have no problem with this as a serious publisher...I'm pretty sure most get-rich-quickers would HATE it...

    Which is why I know it is the perfect solution.

    Thoughts?
    When they say "clogged", what exactly do they mean? You can get previews of them, so I don't understand what the problem actually is. I'm very paranoid these days when the mainstream media thinks there's a problem.

    The mainstream media HATES free and open markets and so they dig for stories like this. I've got my new Kindle right in front of me. I can honestly say it's not CLOGGED with anything.

    I wrote some screenplays that I tried to get on Kindle Marketplace. I got it on there but the format is completely horrible. I'm going to be removing them. I sold maybe 5? They got a LONG preview though so I don't understand how Amazon Kindle's Marketplace is about to knock the Earth off it's Axis.

    Preview books, read reviews to stay away from the trash. We want a free market and the free sharing of ideas. We don't want "gatekeepers" anymore.. that's the old way. The new way is of freedom, and yes, dangers. Oh my, dangers everywhere. It's almost exciting. I'm scared my Kindle's going to explode due to all that clogging.
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
      quote=edlewis;

      I was thinking somewhere more in the range of the $39 CreateSpace charges as part of their "Pro Plan"....

      Not sure $1 is enough...

      There needs to be some barrier of entry. That alone would eliminate 95% of those uploading crap.


      Ed,

      As NCMedia said, money is not much of a barrier. What is more of a barrier is effort. Amazon could implement a very simple barrier - anybody who wants to put books on Kindle has to first publish an original paperback on CreateSpace.


      Originally Posted by RustyF View Post


      If I sell my eBook on Amazon for $27, Amazon keeps 65% of the sales. If I sell the same eBook for $9.99 they usually get only 30% or maybe 35%, I forget the exact number. I have to sell three more than twice the number of books if I raise my price above $9.99 and if i raise the price, I'm going to sell fewer books. My only option was to sell for less and not provide the same level of one on one help after the purchase for those that buy my product for Kindle. Which is really a shame, it is so much easier to read a book on a Kindle or Kindle for PC than it is to read PDF which is a real pain in the butt.

      I don't know, but that seems to encourage me to want to take a PLR product that I didn't spend 100s of hours working on.

      For that reason, Amazon does deserve some of the blame. Actually, a lot of it.
      Amazon is providing a world famous free platform for anybody to become a published author and you're complaining about their cut?

      Do you know how much it costs to get a book printed by a vanity publisher?

      Do you know what percentage of a 'real' book a new author receives in royalties?

      It takes up to 48 hours to get your Kindle book approved - do you know how long it takes for a publishing house to take a book from manuscript to launch? (let's not count the years and postage spent trying to get a publisher's interest).

      Originally Posted by HigherPrThanGod View Post


      Preview books, read reviews to stay away from the trash. We want a free market and the free sharing of ideas. We don't want "gatekeepers" anymore.. that's the old way. The new way is of freedom, and yes, dangers. Oh my, dangers everywhere. It's almost exciting. I'm scared my Kindle's going to explode due to all that clogging.
      Again, it's back to that word "effort". Previewing a book requires effort, and many people are not prepared to 'waste' minutes of their precious time doing something as hard as previewing. It's all Amazon's fault for expecting people to use their brain.


      Martin
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      • Profile picture of the author eibhlin
        Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post


        Amazon could implement a very simple barrier - anybody who wants to put books on Kindle has to first publish an original paperback on CreateSpace.
        Ooh, I like that idea! Yes, it may not be a barrier to everyone who's taking PLR and throwing it at Kindle, but it could significantly reduce the crowd.

        As I see it, first publishing a book on CreateSpace puts a double barrier in place:

        1) The effort factor. I've been publishing with CreateSpace for about a year and a half now. My husband is a pre-press professional (18+ years) and, until recently, one out of every four books was kicked back to us for formatting changes. (That problem has almost vanished since we switched to Adobe's Creative Suite for our formatting.)

        So, despite what some info products claim, publishing at Create Space isn't as simple as "create the book in Word, save as a PDF, and it's a book."

        2) The time & cost. Though CreateSpace has been beta testing the ability to approve a proof without even buying (and examining) an actual, printed proof copy, I hope they keep the printed proof requirement.

        After the book is approved by CreateSpace, it usually takes 7 - 10 days to receive the proof copy. (The proof copy + postage costs under $10 in most cases, if the book is shipped within the U.S. If you're abroad, figure as much as double that.)

        Though neither are significant barriers on their own, I think they could combine to weed out some of the problem. Even if everything goes smoothly, it takes about two weeks to prepare a finished book for CreateSpace, have it approved, and then order & receive the proof copy.

        After a couple of weeks' delay, I think a lot of get-rich-quick people will have moved on to their next get-rich-quick project. That could be a good thing if it keeps them from throwing junk at Kindle.
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      • Profile picture of the author edlewis
        Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post

        Ed,

        As NCMedia said, money is not much of a barrier. What is more of a barrier is effort. Amazon could implement a very simple barrier - anybody who wants to put books on Kindle has to first publish an original paperback on CreateSpace.
        I disagree slightly, Martin.

        Clearly effort is not a problem. Anyone who is cutting and pasting like a madman and going thru the KDP uploading process isn't too worried about effort or time.

        But a $39 fee would stop them dead in their tracks.

        That ebook might not make $39 in it's first year...it may never make a dime.

        When it's free....they can upload thousands of ebooks hoping to make just a few sales a day....suddenly, their spamming efforts are made profitable because it's free.


        As for streamlining the CreateSpace and Kindle platforms....this would actually be an excellent idea....I'm just not sure it's possible at the moment...and I'm not sure it fits the business model Amazon is chasing.

        I would love it if I could upload my PDF to CreateSpace and then have it automatically converted and listed on Kindle. Make it part of the CreateSpace Pro Plan and I would publish ALL of my books/ebooks that way.

        The $39 fee would be a DISCOUNT for me considering how much time and effort it would save me with formatting, uploading, converting, etc.
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        • Profile picture of the author eibhlin
          Originally Posted by edlewis View Post


          I would love it if I could upload my PDF to CreateSpace and then have it automatically converted and listed on Kindle. Make it part of the CreateSpace Pro Plan and I would publish ALL of my books/ebooks that way.
          That concept is so enticing, it's practically pornographic.
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    • Profile picture of the author Taylor Theis
      Banned
      Honestly I haven't been in this business long, and I'm already sick of all the spamming and advertisements thrown everywhere possible. I get a dirty feeling sometimes from reading too much crap people are trying to get me to click on. It's rather difficult to find honest sites that cater to people who really want to network and earn their residual income in legitimate, and not overnight black magic, methods.

      85% of Americans have shown interest in wanting to work at home, and who wouldn't? But so many of us are lazy and approach this like we can cheat the system and spam out way to some millionaire status by buying into ridiculous programs. Then they wonder why they're unsuccessful after maxing their credit card and wasting far too many hours on the wrong websites.

      Jeez, that's why everyone's so depressed all the time.

      I say let's be role models. Not like the movie. Ok, kind of like the movie, it was pretty funny at times.
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      • Profile picture of the author eibhlin
        Originally Posted by Taylor Theis View Post

        85% of Americans have shown interest in wanting to work at home, and who wouldn't? But so many of us are lazy and approach this like we can cheat the system and spam out way to some millionaire status by buying into ridiculous programs. Then they wonder why they're unsuccessful after maxing their credit card and wasting far too many hours on the wrong websites.
        I think you hit the nail on the head. I'm seeing some really inappropriate anger vented at some good (maybe not great) WSOs. In my opinion, too many people bought into hype-laden sales headlines. Now they're bitter (and voca) when they didn't get a hefty paycheck, just for showing up and buying the product.

        I think the PLR-to-Kindle rush will lead to more anger among aspiring millionaires who can't tell the difference between a sales headline and documented fact. Until people realize that, no, PLR is not a short, effortless route to piles of cash, we'll see junk flooding Amazon (and Nook, etc.)

        I'm hoping the current glut of these books is the sign of the Late Majority leaping on Kindle as a means to overnight wealth and effortless income. (Link: Diffusion of Innovations and Rogers' bell curve - Diffusion of innovations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )

        If we're actually seeing Early Adopters or even Early Majority, we (or at least Amazon) have a rocky road ahead. *shudder*
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        • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
          Originally Posted by eibhlin View Post

          I think you hit the nail on the head. I'm seeing some really inappropriate anger vented at some good (maybe not great) WSOs. In my opinion, too many people bought into hype-laden sales headlines. Now they're bitter (and voca) when they didn't get a hefty paycheck, just for showing up and buying the product.

          I think the PLR-to-Kindle rush will lead to more anger among aspiring millionaires who can't tell the difference between a sales headline and documented fact. Until people realize that, no, PLR is not a short, effortless route to piles of cash, we'll see junk flooding Amazon (and Nook, etc.)

          I'm hoping the current glut of these books is the sign of the Late Majority leaping on Kindle as a means to overnight wealth and effortless income. (Link: Diffusion of Innovations and Rogers' bell curve - Diffusion of innovations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )

          If we're actually seeing Early Adopters or even Early Majority, we (or at least Amazon) have a rocky road ahead. *shudder*
          I think the Fallacy of the Bandwagon Effect is more relevant in this situation Bandwagon effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Martin
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      • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
        First the PLR issue... I actually prefer to see the SAME book, with the same graphics, knowing that the information within will be identical, so I can also search for the lowest price. I personally find it quite a pleasure to search for 'bargains'.

        Originally Posted by Taylor Theis View Post

        Honestly I haven't been in this business long, and I'm already sick of all the spamming and advertisements thrown everywhere possible. I get a dirty feeling sometimes from reading too much crap people are trying to get me to click on. It's rather difficult to find honest sites that cater to people who really want to network and earn their residual income in legitimate, and not overnight black magic, methods.

        85% of Americans have shown interest in wanting to work at home, and who wouldn't? But so many of us are lazy and approach this like we can cheat the system and spam out way to some millionaire status by buying into ridiculous programs. Then they wonder why they're unsuccessful after maxing their credit card and wasting far too many hours on the wrong websites.

        Jeez, that's why everyone's so depressed all the time.

        I say let's be role models. Not like the movie. Ok, kind of like the movie, it was pretty funny at times.
        Honestly I haven't been in this business long, andI'm already sick of all the spamming and advertisements thrown everywhere possible. I get a dirty feeling sometimes from reading too much crap people are trying to get me to click on.
        Where to start? I've been in business for a very long time, and for a very long time, I've been sick of whiners whining about 'advertising', and lately, I find myself disgusted with whiners calling every advertisement 'spam.' At best, it shows a lack of education in the fundamental principles of business and marketing.

        85% of Americans have shown interest in wanting to work at home, and who wouldn't? But so many of us are lazy and approach this like we can cheat the system and spam out way to some millionaire status by buying into ridiculous programs.
        if 85% of Americans show interest in ANYTHING... smart entrepreneurs will be ready to give them what they want. Here's a reality check for you: There's more than ONE smart entrepreneur out there... AND... since there is more than one, there will be competition, and therefore each will need to advertise.... and thank God for it, so that intelligent CONSUMERS can make CHOICES...

        People need to grow up and stop bit**ing about 'advertising' and calling every single type of advertising "SPAM." It's advertising and it's VITAL to the success of any business, and it's also VITAL to fostering the free market that gives a consumer CHOICES.

        I'll gladly scroll through a list of the same exact product, to have the CHOICE of choosing the lowest price, rather than the alternative of allowing 'who' to decide which ONE option for me to take. Do I really need to tell you what that means? I hope not, because Paul will probably nuke the whole thread if we go down that road...

        Are you pissed off that you actually have to read about different programs and think and research... that you can't just push a button and the one that's right for YOU magically appears through the power of what? Magic? Internet Telepathy Protocol Bots?



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    • Profile picture of the author IMWinner
      Spamming is one of the disease that is killing in internet. From email accounts to online transaction. We need a very effective solution to it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rick Wilson
        Originally Posted by IMWinner View Post

        Spamming is one of the disease that is killing in internet. From email accounts to online transaction. We need a very effective solution to it.
        There IS a "very effective solution to it" ... Problem is, enough people click and buy from spammer's links to make it profitable for spammers. IF those people would stop doing that, then no financial incentive for spammers.

        But alas ... we ALL know that AIN'T gonna happen. It's just not the reality of the online world. heh heh


        Rick Wilson aka CorpRebel 8-)
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  • Profile picture of the author HigherPrThanGod
    Oh, and adding a price would be fine. It'd sill be FREE MARKET. I just don't want thought controllers at Amazon reading and silencing. That's REALLY what the media and gov't will want. The WSO section is a great example and balance of open free market cooperation.
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  • Profile picture of the author eibhlin
    Yes, I believe the market will correct itself, given enough time. (The latter is the key phrase.)

    I'm just entering the Kindle market now, and I'm grateful for the WSOs that teach fast, reliable and clever ways to format my books so they'll look good to my readers. (Currently, my issue is including necessary, detailed illustrations without having to link to them at my website.)

    However, my books won't be based on PLR, though that was the get-rich-quick headline on several WSOs I bought and/or reviewed.

    The material in Kindle books doesn't have to be original, just unique and provide a quality experience for the reader. I want my readers to return and buy every other book I've written or compiled. Marketing for a one-time sale doesn't interest me; I work with the "1000 True Fans" model. [LINK: The Technium: 1,000 True Fans ]

    I think Kneb made a good point, earlier in this thread. He works with public domain materials, and his approach is fresh and original-looking, albeit based on "old" materials. In some cases, he's definitely playing to the retro market, and it's very cool.

    It's not necessarily the PLR ingredient (though that's been sadly promoted by the get-rich-quick faction) that matters, but the quality and uniqueness of the finished book.

    (I bought Kneb's product when it first came out, and have since published a surprisingly successful printed book based on PD. I don't pretend that the material is original; what's unique is how I've focused on specific themes and assembled the information from about 40 obscure PD sources. The book is footnoted and has an extensive bibliography.)

    My current concern is the impact of the Reuters and The Atlantic articles, and more that will follow. I expect Amazon to respond, and I don't know how severe that will be, and how it will impact the publishing community, in general.

    Yes, the worthless books need to go away. (That's not just PLR. I've been sent some perfectly dreadful "inspirational" books to review, as well.) I think a duplicate content filter would push much of the worst PLR to the end of the list. All Amazon needs are two or three identical books positioned near each other on the list, and customers may realize that something's not right with those books.

    Even an originality grade -- straight percentages, not editorial critique -- might help. I don't know if that's practical.

    If someone wants to embark on the folly of publishing copycat PLR books, that's okay with me. I'm not thrilled with it, but... well, it's the evolution (or temporary devolution) of the marketplace, whether it's Amazon or WSOs or CraigsList or whatever.

    However, though I'd love it if customers actually read the "look inside" pages... it seems that they don't. So, I'm interested in a solution that favors unique and quality content.

    Content may be more important with Kindle books than printed books. With a printed book, some fans buy them "just to own them." They display them on the coffee table or on a prominent bookshelf. They take delight in owning every book by ____, or every book about _____.

    Kindle, by contrast, is for people who read, or at least skim. Unless they're flashing their "look at all the books I own" on their digital readers, there's no status in simply owning the book. It has to provide value to the reader.

    I don't have a simple solution to this set of issues, but I like the responses I'm seeing at this thread. I may not agree with all of them, but I think the discussion is important and I hope Amazon and other digital booksellers are paying attention.
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  • Profile picture of the author patlianic
    very dissapointing... thanks for informative comments
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  • Profile picture of the author RustyF
    Eibhlin,

    Now a WSO that would help me speed up formatting my book for Kindle, that would be helpful, any specific ones that you're willing to tell us/me about?

    One of the time consuming things for me was removing all the pictures or most of them for my kindle edition.

    Someone said they didn't understand an eBook reader. Get the Kindle for PC and get some free Kindle books or an ebook that is formatted for Kindle. It might be hard if you don't have a Kindle though as they are generally delivered bu wireless.

    There is so much GREAT free stuff for the Kindle. I bought one because I am living in a developing nation and power failures happen to often. It gives me something to do when I can't computer. I've never bought a kindle book that wasn't free.

    Right now, I'm reading about Forex and I'm also reading War and Peace, hundreds of books on my Kindle, at lot of classics that I never read. It is even better than reading a book if you're eyes are getting old, like mine.
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    • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
      Originally Posted by RustyF View Post

      Eibhlin,

      Now a WSO that would help me speed up formatting my book for Kindle, that would be helpful, any specific ones that you're willing to tell us/me about?

      One of the time consuming things for me was removing all the pictures or most of them for my kindle edition.

      Someone said they didn't understand an eBook reader. Get the Kindle for PC and get some free Kindle books or an ebook that is formatted for Kindle. It might be hard if you don't have a Kindle though as they are generally delivered bu wireless.

      There is so much GREAT free stuff for the Kindle. I bought one because I am living in a developing nation and power failures happen to often. It gives me something to do when I can't computer. I've never bought a kindle book that wasn't free.

      Right now, I'm reading about Forex and I'm also reading War and Peace, hundreds of books on my Kindle, at lot of classics that I never read. It is even better than reading a book if you're eyes are getting old, like mine.
      There are three or four of them free in the War Room. There's also plenty of good free Kindle formatting info online, some of it even comes from Amazon. :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author eibhlin
        Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

        There are three or four of them free in the War Room. There's also plenty of good free Kindle formatting info online, some of it even comes from Amazon. :rolleyes:
        I need to join the War Room. No doubt about it. *sigh* I probably could have saved some money on products I've bought, but -- to be honest -- people contact me daily with review copies. Lots of them, and many are very good products. (Yes, a few have been duds and I've said so. You can see my semi-rant about reviewing here: http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ml#post4044624)

        Currently, I'm working my way through several products about Kindle.

        So far, I like Bluedolphin's Quick Kindle Formatting Secrets. For visual learners, that product includes lots (and lots) of videos. The included Word template was a nice touch, though anyone can create something similar by following Kindle instructions online at many sites including Amazon.com. Still, it shows that she cares about her customers and genuinely wants to keep the process very simple.

        However, Bluedolphin's videos answered several of my silly-but-basic questions that Amazon's instructions... well, they just didn't click with me. She impresses me as being a real writer, as opposed to someone who's writing shallow but enthusiastic reports for the get-rich-quick audience. I've admired many of her reviews and posts, so I bought this product and, so far, I like it.

        Jay Boyer's Kindle Krusher is less about formatting and more about product research, public domain options, and the bonus marketing kit has some useful tips. For the money -- at least when I bought it (cheap) as soon as it was released -- it was a worthwhile purchase.

        Kevin Brown & Cory Friedman created Kindle Cash on Steroids. It's a basic marketing plan, fine for newbies. If you're reading this thread, it may be too simple for you.

        Dan Hall's Real Fast Book is a good pep talk to get you through the book creation process, but it's not about formatting. (I think that was a freebie from his squeeze page, but I may be wrong.)

        His free, Kindle- and book-related webinars are worth attending for useful tips.

        I've signed up for his six-month pay-as-you-go course (and may actually stay with it for awhile) because I could get a $7 trial (through Jay Boyer, I think) and the information has been useful, so far. He covers some formatting and does his best to simplify it for non-technical people. He says he's not encouraging the PLR-to-book enthusiasts, but his material definitely includes them. I'm not sure that serves him well since it's a mixed message.

        Looking through my Kindle folder, I think those are all the current products I've either bought or received as review copies. I don't think I've seen Ed's product, and I definitely didn't get the recent PLR-to-Kindle product that I think has John Rhodes' name associated with it.

        I recommend checking the War Room for any threads by Bluedolphin. But, in general, it sounds like you may find what you want in the War Room.
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    • Profile picture of the author gfMedia
      Wow, been too busy working on my Kindle project to see this until now.

      I think pretty much everything has been said already on this subject so I'm going back to taking action and getting things done.

      Oh, btw...
      Originally Posted by RustyF View Post

      Now a WSO that would help me speed up formatting my book for Kindle, that would be helpful, any specific ones that you're willing to tell us/me about?

      One of the time consuming things for me was removing all the pictures or most of them for my kindle edition.
      "Your wish is my command" ;-)
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    • Profile picture of the author JustVisiting
      Originally Posted by RustyF View Post

      Now a WSO that would help me speed up formatting my book for Kindle, that would be helpful, any specific ones that you're willing to tell us/me about?

      One of the time consuming things for me was removing all the pictures or most of them for my kindle edition.
      Hey Rusty

      Here is how I format a Kindle Ebook.

      Amazon Kindle Terms and Conditions state you should have a hyper-linked table of contents and using Mobipocket Creator you can do this automatically!

      1) Use OpenOffice Writer to edit the content
      2) Mobipocket Creator will convert the Openoffice file to the Kindle ebook format.
      3)The Kindle Previewer will let you admire your finished book prior to uploading.

      Hope this helps

      Cheers

      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author eibhlin
        Originally Posted by JustVisiting View Post

        Hey Rusty

        Here is how I format a Kindle Ebook.

        Amazon Kindle Terms and Conditions state you should have a hyper-linked table of contents and using Mobipocket Creator you can do this automatically!

        1) Use OpenOffice Writer to edit the content
        2) Mobipocket Creator will convert the Openoffice file to the Kindle ebook format.
        3)The Kindle Previewer will let you admire your finished book prior to uploading.

        Hope this helps

        Cheers

        Paul
        Nicely said. I'm in awe of people who can be concise. (Of course, being verbose is what makes me a book author. )
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  • Profile picture of the author ricoramiro
    I have been tempted to do that believe me. But I want to set myself apart from the crowd so I'm learning how to create graphics to change the eCover and I also change the PLR and make it my own.

    It's not that hard folks!

    But on the other hand, PLR and MRR products were made for people to profit from them. Why get mad at the people who are trying to make money?

    Are we mad at their level of professionalism or at the fact that they're trying to earn a living?
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  • Profile picture of the author stlwebbusiness
    Hey Ed thanks for the thread. I almost became a victim to the Kindle problem. I purchased three separate Kindle programs. Two of them state to just get PLR and pump it out and you don't have to change anything. The other one states if you use PLR make it unique and high quality, researching keywords and Yahoo answers that people are interested to add to your books.

    While doing some research on Kindle on what was hot and selling I found a individual that put out tons of PLR I recognized from a PLR purchase I made a while back of over 800 PLR books. This person didn't change a thing in the content and even used the same ecover that came with the PLR.

    Needless to say I saw a problem and am brand new to Kindle. I think it is quite obvious you should change the ebooks so there is not mad customers. I made a comment to my wife that they are going to get everyone using PLR kicked out of Kindle. I then found your thred and loved reading more about it from individuals that have been in Kindle for a longer period than I.

    I wrote an ebook myself on a topic I know about and feel it will help people needing to save money. I based the book on a popular selling published book not PLR but didn't copy the book. I took ideas from the book and made it my own original book.

    I would like to ask your opinion of the subject. Do you feel rewriting PLR to a unique form is good for an ebook or is it better to pay the higher price for a ghost writer to write the ebooks for us. Way slower process but may be the best option for longevity with Kindle.

    Thanks again for the thred. It came in just a nick of time before we fell into the put up as many ebooks as you can before the next guy beats you to it.

    Best Regards,

    JC
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    Personally I can see why Amazon would turn a blind eye to all of this, if they are getting in some cases 65% of the revenue, they may just let it continue for a while yet
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    • Profile picture of the author eibhlin
      Originally Posted by dagaul101 View Post

      Personally I can see why Amazon would turn a blind eye to all of this, if they are getting in some cases 65% of the revenue, they may just let it continue for a while yet
      I think that's a real possibility. What weighs against it are articles like the one in The Atlantic. If more respected print magazines -- read by Amazon customers -- pick up the Reuters piece, this becomes a PR concern for Amazon. Assume they're playing the long game, PR is always an issue, regardless of short-term profits.

      Only time will tell, of course.
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  • Profile picture of the author DPM70
    Secrets and spam - lol, what a joke.
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  • Profile picture of the author coach
    Spam clogging Amazon's Kindle self-publishing | Reuters

    Observations:

    (1) everyone here knows that 99.4% of PLR has ZERO value to the end customer;

    (2) all but the guilty agree that copy and paste PLR has no place in a paid marketplace like Kindle;

    (3) the right to do it is not an excuse for lazy people messing it up for legitimate authors;

    Also,

    Interesting that PLR actually got mentioned in Reuters News Service?

    Autopilot Kindle Cash too?

    Are all digital self-publishers now spammers?

    Amazon boogie man coming to get ya?

    The real opportunity is for someone to step up and educate in the space.
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    • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
      Originally Posted by coach View Post

      Spam clogging Amazon's Kindle self-publishing | Reuters

      Observations:

      (1) everyone here knows that 99.4% of PLR has ZERO value to the end customer;

      (2) all but the guilty agree that copy and paste PLR has no place in a paid marketplace like Kindle;

      (3) the right to do it is not an excuse for lazy people messing it up for legitimate authors;

      Also,

      Interesting that PLR actually got mentioned in Reuters News Service?

      Autopilot Kindle Cash too?

      Are all digital self-publishers now spammers?

      Amazon boogie man coming to get ya?

      The real opportunity is for someone to step up and educate in the space.

      Incorrect on two counts.

      (1) First, I belong to several PLR/MRR clubs that publish 'niche' works and I learn something from every one of them. Most of the time, I don't know much about the subject at all, so they have just as much value to anyone else just learning about the niche as I am.

      (2) Second, I'm not 'guilty.' I don't publish Kindle books.

      (3) I don't consider someone 'lazy' when they take the time to research what all the other publishers of the same book are charging, and make their own price comparable.

      -Dani
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  • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
    Sounds like a game of cat and mouse.

    Amazon wants as much inventory as possible to keep it/make it the market leader and to do so needs user generated content. If they make the process too difficult then they don't get the numbers; but if they make it too easy then it just turns customers off.

    They used a similar approach with their affiliate program, even offering high commissions at the start to make it really attractive. They start tightening the screws after everything is in momentum and I'll take a guess that's what they'll do with the Kindle.

    They aren't really taking care of all of the spam being generated by the affiliate network either, and do they even care? They got their desired result in the end.

    I think Apple did a great job with there Apps Store, while I hear Android is having problems because they lack the control and QA of their apps so they are causing all sorts of issues with peoples phones. Too much freedom and the buyer suffers.
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  • Profile picture of the author thegotoguy
    I wrote a blog post about this the other day. When the story broke, it pissed me off. I think it was completely taken out of context and is an insult to internet marketers and to authors who write books they consider "spam". The whole story disgusts me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Caleb Spilchen View Post

      They were also too stupid to realize the difference between a "DVD Box set" and a digital product.
      It's not exactly the world's worst research to conclude that when a sales page displays both a box and a DVD, there's an actual box containing an actual DVD being sold from it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
        [DELETED]
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by Caleb Spilchen View Post

          Or is that asking too much of one of the worlds biggest news organizations?
          Is it too much to ask that your product image only show a DVD and a box if you include a DVD and a box with it?

          It wasn't any more unreasonable for them to think those were actual physical objects in the product than it was to put physical objects in the product image.

          In IM digital-only product images, we all know a box means the product includes several files and a DVD means some of those files are video. But that is a specific convention within our industry that we shouldn't expect people to understand if they're not part of that industry.

          And bear in mind that this article is not about the IM industry or any digital product. It's about the Kindle marketplace, and any research should be expected to be done on the Kindle marketplace, NOT a product that occupies the space of half a sentence.
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          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author tj
          Originally Posted by Caleb Spilchen View Post

          But you would think, an organization such as Reuters, would consider READING a product before making statements like it did, and would have found out that it's not a DVD set.

          Or is that asking too much of one of the worlds biggest news organizations?

          Caleb
          You meant with reading a product - reading a sales letter ??

          Timo
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          • Profile picture of the author WealthWinners
            I have found this thread very insightful. However, I would like to say be careful what you wish for. Because pushing Amazon to come down hard on any publisher could backfire.

            I remember when eBay used to be a great place to sell things. And they ALWAYS had up front fees to pay just to get listed. I loved it and always did my best to over-deliver anything I would sell. I didn't sell a lot, and it was all physical products, mostly used.

            However, when they started to "crack down" on the scammers, a lot of really good people got thrown in with the mix and it hurt them too. Not to mention, nowadays if you have a buyer that is a troll as well, it can hurt your rep and you have no recourse as a seller, even if you did everything right. I got out right before all that happened but remember the stories.

            Oh, and a fee won't work. It didn't with eBay. The scammers still showed up.

            Then, there is EZA. EZA seems to be getting harder and harder to get published in. And while that isn't always a bad thing because it weeds out the lazy asses, it also makes it harder for legit articles to get published. If I research and rewrite things in my own words, they still sometimes reject because it may be "too similar" to some other writing.

            The point is this. If you are doing really good work, you have nothing to worry about. Eventually, Amazon will get enough complaints that they will weed out and dump duplicate books, through some sort of their own proprietary system.

            But therein also lies a problem. Which ones to keep and which ones to dump? Does the oldest version get to stay and all the newer ones get dumped?

            I don't know. I don't use PLR or PD. I write all my own stuff, so in that area I am not concerned. However, what does concern me is getting caught in the crossfire when they come down on the spammers or whatever we are calling them.

            *Incidentally, to me anything spam is unsolicited. If I search for something I can CHOOSE to buy it or not. It falls on me to choose, Amazon does not force me to buy or even look at the contents.
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            • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
              Note: I've received a PM from young Caleb, who explained he posted hastily and in anger. He's since come to his senses and removed the post, so I'm removing the quote. Sometimes the submit reflex is faster than the brain, and that isn't a trait reserved for the young...

              Originally Posted by Caleb Spilchen View Post

              (Original quote removed.)

              Caleb
              Caleb, don't take this wrong, but you're showing your age and lack of life experience here. Reuters, and many of the outlets that picked up the story, ARE considered credible sources because they have proven to be so for longer than you've been around this planet.

              Just because you know one of the conventions of a relatively small group of marketers doesn't make the writer "stupid".

              With all due respect, this little rant of yours is arrogant and ignorant. I thought you'd do better than this.
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    • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
      Originally Posted by Caleb Spilchen View Post

      The person has never used a dictionary, and did not know the meaning of "spam".
      People really get hung-up on "the meaning of spam". Like a lot of language the meaning has evolved over time.

      Abusing an electronic system in bulk for financial gain with messages that most people don't want to see sure sounds like spam to me.

      Originally Posted by Caleb Spilchen View Post

      They were also too stupid to realize the difference between a "DVD Box set" and a digital product.
      Does that change the fact that there are products out there teaching people to regurgitate content in bulk to play a numbers game?

      Amazon has already started to take steps to negate the problem so I don't think this hit-and-run method will have much legs. If you are putting effort in, and I don't mean upload 100 instead of 50 books a day, then I think the Kindle will still be a very viable option.

      The Amazon comment system will really allow quality content to shine where it would otherwise be swarmed by products offering the world but delivering nothing. If you produce quality then this negative attention on people taking advantage of the system should be great news to you.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ram
        You know, I have never read a book on a Kindle. My wife has one. I like the real thing. And I have never published anything there. My stuff doesn't go for bargain prices. But this discussion has me laughing.

        Lets' see ... some enterprising souls bought PLR and they have the audacity of trying to make money with it instead of letting it sit on their hard drive ... oh the shame of it all. LOL

        Isn't that what you told them to do when you sold them the PLR or sold them a course that includes making money with PLR? After all, it's a "business in a box," isn't it?

        So let me get this straight. They can set up a website and sell that PLR and that's not spam. They can sell it on Clickbank and that's not spam. But if they dare to upload it to the sacred Amazon.com for sale on the holy Kindle it's SPAM and a terrible frickin' crime?

        Geez. I sometimes wonder how many of you know what business you are in.

        That said, if Amazon decide to ban PLR or PLR-derived products, fine by me. They own their site. They make the rules.

        But if Amazon lets people sell PLR - good or bad, straight from the download page or changed up and retitled - so be it.

        Some may say "but they are ruining it for the rest of us." Too bad. Complain to Amazon. Maybe they will change the rules. But Kindle isn't about you. It's not about what you consider worthwhile or not. It's not about providing you with the best chance to make money from your "quality" products. As long as Amazon lets them and they follow the rules Amazon lays down, these guys have the exact same "right" to use Kindle to make money with their stuff as you do with yours.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    This is a timely post for me. I am working on formatting my first Kindle book. It is 100% original and new, but I have thought about offering it to others with PLR.

    After reading this thread, I'm thinking I may go the more traditional route. Maybe just selling it as a book is good enough.

    Hmm...now there's a thought that could catch on!

    Either way, I believe there is a difference in mindset between those who label themselves as "PLR creators" and those who lable themselves as "authors".

    All the best,
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author Cesar Sampaio
    It is sad but inevitable. Create something with no entry barriers and thousands of mindless sheep will abuse it to scrap.

    But I don't believe Amazon is being stupid here. They are just waiting for Kindle to reach critical mass and then they will eliminate the duplicates and post a new policy with the publishing rates necessary to avoid SPAM.

    I believe $39 would be a goo entry barrier. Not too costly and not too cheap.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kecia
    Amazon could get rid of probably 75% of the rehashed PLR content on the Kindle publishing system if the just screened ebook covers. Most spammers don't take the time to change the image so you know it's unoriginal without even clicking on the listing.
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  • Profile picture of the author tamarindcandy
    I blame Amazon. Build a better ecosystem, have better screening policies--whatever. The onus is on them. With that said, I'm not interested in trying this Kindle tactic either, though personally I'm not affected as I don't use the Kindle store.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Amazon/Kindle sent me this in the June 2011 Newsletter (today).

    It's all a numbers game, clean up the mess later.



    Amazon Now Selling More Kindle Books Than Print Books

    Amazon began selling hardcover and paperback books in July 1995. Twelve years later in November 2007, Amazon introduced the revolutionary Kindle and began selling Kindle books. By July 2010, Kindle book sales had surpassed hardcover book sales, and six months later, Kindle books overtook paperback books to become the most popular format on Amazon.com. Today, less than four years after introducing Kindle books, Amazon.com customers are now purchasing more Kindle books than all print books - hardcover and paperback - combined.

    "Customers are now choosing Kindle books more often than print books. We had high hopes that this would happen eventually, but we never imagined it would happen this quickly - we've been selling print books for 15 years and Kindle books for less than four years," said Jeff Bezos, Founder and CEO, Amazon.com. Since April 1, for every 100 print books Amazon.com has sold, it has sold 105 Kindle books. This includes sales of hardcover and paperback books by Amazon where there is no Kindle edition. Free Kindle books are excluded and if included would make the number even higher.
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    • Profile picture of the author chumpschimps
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      It's all a numbers game, clean up the mess later.
      Seems to be a popular business model, doesn't it?

      I mean, imagine if Google & co had introduced some form of quality control at the beginning of time, before the internet became clogged up with spam and trash - perhaps they wouldn't need quite so many updates to try and 'clean up' the mess they allowed to be created.

      Same with YouTube

      It's true that people will always try to play the system to their own advantage but it definitely seems to be quantity over quality with lots of poor and ineffective clean up operations later, to try and undo what these big guys have allowed/created themselves.
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      • Profile picture of the author gfMedia
        Originally Posted by chumpschimps View Post

        I mean, imagine if Google & co had introduced some form of quality control at the beginning of time, before the internet became clogged up with spam and trash - perhaps they wouldn't need quite so many updates to try and 'clean up' the mess they allowed to be created
        To me that's like trying to predict the weather next month or next year.

        How could any business know before hand every possible problem, put measures in place to prevent those unknown problems and actually release their product not to mention make any money or even stay in business?
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        • Profile picture of the author chumpschimps
          Originally Posted by gfMedia View Post

          To me that's like trying to predict the weather next month or next year.

          How could any business know before hand every possible problem, put measures in place to prevent those unknown problems and actually release their product not to mention make any money or even stay in business?
          I agree that you can't anticipate every twist and turn of a new venture. But, I think it's reasonable to anticipate certain problems

          For example, did google really not expect that people would suddenly claim x-number of false business addresses, just so they could have multiple google places / business listings, if they didn't force people to verify them all by post?

          Did no-one ever anticipate copyright/royalty issues on YouTube when anyone is allowed to upload videos?

          Personally, I think this type of thing should be anticipated in advance and that's what makes me think they initially put quantity before quality and then try the clean-up operation.
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by gfMedia View Post

          How could any business know before hand every possible problem
          Hire someone who actually paid attention in economics class?

          Tragedy of the commons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

          ...free access and unrestricted demand for a finite resource ultimately reduces the resource through over-exploitation, temporarily or permanently. This occurs because the benefits of exploitation accrue to individuals or groups, each of whom is motivated to maximize use of the resource to the point in which they become reliant on it, while the costs of the exploitation are borne by all those to whom the resource is available...
          The world is full of people who would like this not to be true, and the internet is fertile ground for them to create little pockets of the world where it's true... for a while... until the general public finds it. The internet, indeed, used to BE such a pocket of the world.

          But security through obscurity is no security at all. When the Kindle was a stupid product bought by rich idiots, the Kindle marketplace could be wide open and it was all good. Now that the Kindle is awesome and everybody wants one, visions of cash hover around that marketplace and the world is full of people who don't give a crap about you and your Kindle and the ecosystem. They just want their piece of the pie.

          And anyone who knew anything about economic reality saw this coming from day one. If you look to the econ bloggers like Greg Mankiw, Tyler Cowen, and Eliezer Yudkowsky... this has been discussed before. Years ago.

          In fact, the concern was raised that a glut of public domain publications might actually raise public outcry AGAINST the public domain and lead to more restrictive copyright laws. Which, ironically, would make PLR (the real problem in this matter) the only readily available alternative.
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  • Profile picture of the author Greg DiVilbiss
    One of the biggest problems I see as a newbie is that all of the promos, WSO's get rich quick items all sound good. Even when you know it is likely to be to good to be true you get sucked in. I personally spent a fair amount of money on crap before I started to find people I trust. Having this forum to hash this out is great as well.

    If hubpages can detect duplicate content I am not sure why it would be a problem for Amazon. I developed a legit website and wrote all of the content on a subject, took my knowledge and wrote an article, and Hubpages would not allow it. They referred back to the website that I also was the author.
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  • Profile picture of the author gully
    Is Amazon beginning to hit back?

    I saw a book that had great sales but obviously had paid reviews. The paid reviews are all gone now. But the book is still there and its still crappy. No refunds on Kindle books. Buyer beware.
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    • Profile picture of the author JustVisiting
      Originally Posted by gully View Post

      Is Amazon beginning to hit back?

      I saw a book that had great sales but obviously had paid reviews. The paid reviews are all gone now. But the book is still there and its still crappy. No refunds on Kindle books. Buyer beware.

      If that is the case then future buyers will post genuine reviews saying the book is crap and therefore limiting further sales.

      Here's an idea (Amazon, you can hire me as a consultant if you like )

      If a book gets many bad reviews then someone at Amazon should actually look at the book and if necessary remove it from the bookstore.

      Cheers

      Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author edlewis
      Originally Posted by gully View Post

      Is Amazon beginning to hit back?

      I saw a book that had great sales but obviously had paid reviews. The paid reviews are all gone now. But the book is still there and its still crappy. No refunds on Kindle books. Buyer beware.
      Completely untrue.

      There most certainly ARE refunds on Kindle ebooks.
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  • Profile picture of the author terrencewan
    Any organizers should monitor what products the seller is offering,
    and if the product can't deliver as it stated,
    it should be ban from advertising or selling it.
    These will work well in 2 ways.
    The organizations will have a good reputation,
    and the sellers will be very serious on what type
    of products to sell.
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  • Profile picture of the author ksmusselman
    Originally Posted by edlewis View Post

    LINK - Spam clogging Amazon's Kindle self-publishing | Reuters


    Knew this was coming....

    Too many people thinking they can get rich quickly and easily by SPAMMING Kindle....

    Personally, I don't know who to blame...the people doing it or the people selling them products promising EASY, autopilot riches with zero work.

    I really wish Amazon would just crack down HARD on this nonsense...it's not good for their ebook business or their brand...and it's not good for serious Kindle authors and publishers who are now grouped in with spammers.


    My prediction....

    Eventually they will have almost no choice but to make publishers PAY to upload and publish a Kindle ebook.

    I would have no problem with this as a serious publisher...I'm pretty sure most get-rich-quickers would HATE it...

    Which is why I know it is the perfect solution.

    Thoughts?
    And people actually think that Kindle and other e-readers will take over the printed paperback market? hmmm Well, you can't spam any of the novels on my bookshelf! And I only have to pay no more than $7.99 for a brand new paperback - no spam included.
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  • Profile picture of the author thegotoguy
    I don't think that paid reviews are a good idea for any book. It's obvious they weren't very convincing. You should always give your book out for free to a few dozen people and have them review it. Then you post their reviews when promoting your book.

    Of course this isn't about novels. This is about the alleged "spam authors" which is completely different and I don't think "spam authors" is even accurate. Just because they didn't actually write the book doesn't mean they didn't have every right to list it on Amazon. I'm not saying the books were good, I'm just saying that there was no violation of Amazon's listing terms and that this whole story is B.S!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeanne Lovely
    As far as Amazon cracking down on the "spammers" I agree that if the product does not contain a review of the book, or at least some new content whether it be pictures, or as another poster stated at least a new cover
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  • Profile picture of the author thegotoguy
    Absolutely! I think they should try to make it unique to themselves in some way.
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