PLIMUS stops Internet Marketing

82 replies
I got this with subject: IMPORTANT UPDATE

Valued Plimus Affiliate,
We wanted to advise you we are no longer supporting Internet Marketing (IM) and Business Operations (Biz-Ops) products, for which our records show you are an affiliate. This does not affect any previous sales referrals you are due payment for. Payouts of those will proceed without issue. Since the product is no longer offered on Plimus there will be no future commissions to be earned.
Thank you for marketing one of our vendor products. We hope you will go to the Plimus Marketplace and find new products for you to promote and earn commission on. If there is something we can do to assist please do not hesitate to contact us.
Sincerely,
The Plimus Team


Seems that someone has made people at Plimus mad about refunds and crap products
#internet #internet marketing #marketing #plimus #plimus stops #stops
  • Profile picture of the author Newbie11
    Wow, I hope you did not spend a lot of money setting up your marketing campaign.
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    • Profile picture of the author Valerio
      Originally Posted by Newbie11 View Post

      Wow, I hope you did not spend a lot of money setting up your marketing campaign.
      Fortunately just some email marketing messages...

      Curious to see if the product owners I promoted will shout a message to us (affiliates)...
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  • Profile picture of the author BigDaddys101
    Apparently google's updates have inspired many to stop promoting spam and scams.....
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  • Profile picture of the author Tony Dean
    I can't say I am surprised with Plimus. Every day of the week I get spam from affiliates of theirs so I suppose they got fed up of answering the 'abuse' emails.
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    We wanted to advise you we are no longer supporting Internet Marketing (IM) and Business Operations (Biz-Ops) products,
    Just as an aside, I wonder if they really believe that Biz Ops is an abbreviation of Business Operations or whether it was just a typo. :p


    Frank
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  • Profile picture of the author mytoy78
    Clickbank have started removing several products as well. Be aware that if you are promoting anything to do with surveillance, there is every chance that 'Clickbank' will stop supporting your efforts. Thankfully my product has been transferred to 'plimus', we'll see how long it lasts with them...

    Keep on trucking folks

    mytoy78
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Yep. The whole IM fast-buck approach is under attack. Google, YouTube, the federal government and more are all on the bandwagon. And there will be more. That means spinners, spamming for articles, backlinks and "hit and run marketing" will soon be neutralized. This will hurt some decent marketers but they'll adapt.
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    • Profile picture of the author Vanessa Reece
      I've just set up with Plimus (my goodness it was a bit of long drawn out process with the way they do things) but for me it isn't too late to pack up and move elsewhere.

      I'm actually going to speak to the account manager they assigned me and get him to look at my product sales page because I think IM is way too broad. My product is anything but get rich quick or push button riches. But as we've seen in the recent Black June YouTube Cull anything that remotely saying "money" "Profits" "internet" may just get the chop.

      Thanks Valerio for the heads up.

      V
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    • Profile picture of the author Gdetonator
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      "hit and run marketing"
      hahaha, I like the sound of that word "hit and run marketing" and it's just the perfect description, very funny though
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    You name it ... from Google to the Feds, the hammer is really coming down on the MMO industry.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hamza
      Finally ! !!

      I knew that this day will come long time ago, those stupid 1mill in 3 months product owners should learn how to run a legit business online and stop ruining the industry ...
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    • Profile picture of the author ejb2059
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      You name it ... from Google to the Feds, the hammer is really coming down on the MMO industry.
      Absolute power corrupts absolutely eh?

      Why can't the Feds and power brokers just let people live their lives, and earn an honest, decent living without constantly interfering?
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by ejb2059 View Post

        Absolute power corrupts absolutely eh?

        Why can't the Feds and power brokers just let people live their lives, and earn an honest, decent living without constantly interfering?
        The Feds aren't targeting honest, decent people earning a living. They're targeting fraud and deception and theft.
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        • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          The Feds aren't targeting honest, decent people earning a living. They're targeting fraud and deception and theft.
          Then why is EVERYONE in the industry under attack right now?

          -Dani
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

            Then why is EVERYONE in the industry under attack right now?

            -Dani
            I'm not and a lot of people are not. I don't promote Biz Ops/MMO techniques. I don't promote forced continuity "free trial" offers. I don't promote offers that use deceptive copy, fake income claims, fake testimonials or any of the other types of fraud that are being targeted.
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            • Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              I'm not and a lot of people are not. I don't promote Biz Ops/MMO techniques. I don't promote forced continuity "free trial" offers. I don't promote offers that use deceptive copy, fake income claims, fake testimonials or any of the other types of fraud that are being targeted.
              Errrr I dunno, but everything on your signature targets the MMO niche...
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

                Errrr I dunno, but everything on your signature targets the MMO niche...
                errr I dunno about that. PLRStyle ... I sell websites. Free domaining ebook, I sell domains. Google News Blueprint ... I help people build news sites. My new mobile site ... I build mobile websites for people.

                Sorry ... but that doesn't really come close to deceptive marketing practices.
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                • Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  errr I dunno about that. PLRStyle ... I sell websites. Free domaining ebook, I sell domains. Google News Blueprint ... I help people build news sites. My new mobile site ... I build mobile websites for people.

                  Sorry ... but that doesn't really come close to deceptive marketing practices.
                  Indeed my point! Not everyone in the IM niche is a scammer. Some products are legitimate, but this "Fed Attack" affects equally all marketers: deceptive or not.

                  See the problem now?
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

                    Indeed my point! Not everyone in the IM niche is a scammer. Some products are legitimate, but this "Fed Attack" affects equally all marketers: deceptive or not.

                    See the problem now?
                    The "Fed attack" affects those primarily who have had hosts of complaints lodged against them for fraud. No, I don't see the problem. I'm a web designer and domainer and the Feds aren't knocking at my door.

                    There are plenty of guidelines to use to keep yourself out of trouble. The problem is that many people know these "Get Rich Quick" schemes sell like hot cakes and will risk it to rake in those bucks.
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by cosmokid View Post

                  And it's not just "deceptive marketing practices" that are being targeted. If I can no longer sell a book about how to build a website and put links on it to make income as an affiliate marketer from that website because Plimus, Google, Paypal, and others see ALL such sites as "deceptive" then a lot of very honest, knowledgeable, and experienced marketing teachers are going to find they have no place to share their expertise if they can't legally accept money for their teachings. Wasn't there a thread just this week talking about how Paypal shut down somebody's account for selling products in the online marketing/Internet marketing niche? So I assume you're not using Paypal - or you're simply not worried for some reason?
                  Correct. I'm not worried. I sell websites and domains for a living and there are plenty of options for receiving payments should Paypal decide that selling websites and building websites for people is a risky business.

                  If your business is affected by the policies of a service, use another service. There's always going to be one around that facilitates moving money around.
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            • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              The Feds aren't targeting honest, decent people earning a living. They're targeting fraud and deception and theft.
              Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

              Then why is EVERYONE in the industry under attack right now?

              -Dani
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              I'm not and a lot of people are not. I don't promote Biz Ops/MMO techniques. I don't promote forced continuity "free trial" offers. I don't promote offers that use deceptive copy, fake income claims, fake testimonials or any of the other types of fraud that are being targeted.
              Wars always bring collateral damage..this is a given...and that is what we are in a war between scammers and those sworn to protect the consumer. Unfortunately, the MMO niche and many in non-MMO niches who use techniques touted by those in the MMO niche will probably get nailed, including honest Warriors. All you can do after a war like this is just clean up the mess and rebuild...
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  • That sucks, Plimus was my favorite payment+affiliate system
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Bykov
    Banned
    That's good news. Hope to hear something like that from Clickbank. :p
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Originally Posted by Valerio View Post

    I got this with subject: IMPORTANT UPDATE

    Valued Plimus Affiliate,
    We wanted to advise you we are no longer supporting Internet Marketing (IM) and Business Operations (Biz-Ops) products, for which our records show you are an affiliate. This does not affect any previous sales referrals you are due payment for. Payouts of those will proceed without issue. Since the product is no longer offered on Plimus there will be no future commissions to be earned.
    Thank you for marketing one of our vendor products. We hope you will go to the Plimus Marketplace and find new products for you to promote and earn commission on. If there is something we can do to assist please do not hesitate to contact us.
    Sincerely,
    The Plimus Team


    Seems that someone has made people at Plimus mad about refunds and crap products
    Sure you dont work for Clickbank?

    Is there a proper reference for this as opposed to your email?
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    • Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      Sure you dont work for Clickbank?

      Is there a proper reference for this as opposed to your email?
      I received the same email.
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    • Profile picture of the author Valerio
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      Sure you dont work for Clickbank?

      Is there a proper reference for this as opposed to your email?

      Ahahaahh... no

      If you made some money with IM programs using Plimus you should receive this email too.

      Another proof is that GoClickCash.com is now offline (and their JV page too http://www.goclickcash.com/affiliatetools.html) and redirects to cb code cash or something... that sells on CB.

      I don't think CB will terminate any IM sale, they made too much money on that... but I really hope to see more quality products in the future...

      Valerio
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy Broussard
    As long as there are people that want to make a quick buck and buy "the dream" there will be marketers "selling the dream"...

    I don't care for the hype either, but just blaming marketers is not realistic. The fact is that people don't want to have to work hard to make money online. Many are just looking for an "Internet lottery ticket".

    This has been around since the dawn of time... nothing new, just a different medium.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Okay thanks. I dont work with Plimus. Thanks for the heads up.
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  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

    It is seriously time for the WSO forum to act now too.
    Might be a little hard for a forum about Internet Marketing to not have offers about Internet Marketing.

    This is an escalating problem:

    1. Hordes of scammers and idiots.

    2. Relegation of the topic to the backwaters of the net. The list of places where the topic has been outright banned or is being restricted is rapidly growing.

    It's like a swarm of locusts. They descend on something, quickly become of nuisance, bans are imposed, and then after destroying the service for legitimate businesses they move on to the next service to destroy.

    .
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    Of course this does not include things outside of the MMO niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author noble
    It makes sense to me. Lots of chargebacks from crap make $20340930485 today with the push of a button product, I wouldn't want to deal with it either.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alfredo Carrion
    The only thing that bothers me about all this trend is, what about the good and serious IM products in the market? Imagine if PayPal, 2CO, etc. decide to shut down every account that sells any IM related product?

    Yes, they could try to filter scams, but what would happen if they just don't care to filter. "It's related to IM => account cancelled".

    Maybe I'm being over-dramatic :confused:
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  • Profile picture of the author Taruru
    thanks for the heads up.. was thinking of getting an account with them, still think i'll try.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Aside from their shunning MMO stuff, Plimus is no cake walk. The process for putting a product on their system is a freakin' minefield. It's not user friendly at all. I'm not all that technical but I'm not an idiot either and it took me three days to list a product. You never know where you are in the process. They have some excellent videos but you won't find them anywhere near where you'll need them as you go helter skelter through their requirements, wait, some are not requirements, they're suggestions...

    I wrote a detailed email suggesting stuff that would make things easier and received a response from a bot asking for specifics. Ugh. IMO, Plimus is no great loss to the Internet marketing community.
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    • Profile picture of the author Vanessa Reece
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      Aside from their shunning MMO stuff, Plimus is no cake walk. The process for putting a product on their system is a freakin' minefield. It's not user friendly at all. I'm not all that technical but I'm not an idiot either and it took me three days to list a product. You never know where you are in the process. They have some excellent videos but you won't find them anywhere near where you'll need them as you go helter skelter through their requirements, wait, some are not requirements, they're suggestions...

      I wrote a detailed email suggesting stuff that would make things easier and received a response from a bot asking for specifics. Ugh. IMO, Plimus is no great loss to the Internet marketing community.
      Thanks so much for posting this because I thought I was the only one who found it a minefield - it also took me three days and a chat with support, although helpful weren't bursting with the enthusiasm I've come to enjoy from other service providers.

      As I said, it's not too late for me to close up and move shop. I chose Plimus for two reasons, one was to use an alternative to PayPal since they worry me - and second because of the affiliate payments. I'm still curious to know if they deem my product an issue but I'm not losing sleep if they do.

      V
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      • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        I'm not and a lot of people are not. I don't promote Biz Ops/MMO techniques. I don't promote forced continuity "free trial" offers. I don't promote offers that use deceptive copy, fake income claims, fake testimonials or any of the other types of fraud that are being targeted.
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        errr I dunno about that. PLRStyle ... I sell websites. Free domaining ebook, I sell domains. Google News Blueprint ... I help people build news sites. My new mobile site ... I build mobile websites for people.

        Sorry ... but that doesn't really come close to deceptive marketing practices.
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        The "Fed attack" affects those primarily who have had hosts of complaints lodged against them for fraud. No, I don't see the problem. I'm a web designer and domainer and the Feds aren't knocking at my door.

        There are plenty of guidelines to use to keep yourself out of trouble. The problem is that many people know these "Get Rich Quick" schemes sell like hot cakes and will risk it to rake in those bucks.
        Suzzanne,
        How many people are 'misled' by the thought that any plr (article, book, software, website..etc, is a 'set and forget' biz op (opportunity AND operation)? I can't comment on whether or not your copy 'implies' that or not as I've not seen it (but I mean to soon, as I DO buy a ton of PLR because I happen to know what to do with it, but ...)

        Historically people have not started businesses, opening up stores and buying advertising, because the start up costs were prohibitive and they either didn't have the money or were afraid to risk it because they didn't know the first thing about running a business.

        Historically, there have always been 'low cost of entry' models that appeal to those exact same people. But when the risk is $200, $100, or $10 as opposed to the $5,000, $10,000 $25,000 to set up offline, the risk 'perception' is lessened, and so this 'type' is more willing to explore it.

        You may not envision your target market as a 'newbie', but they choose you simply through this process of reasoning and their own perception of risk mitigation.

        The fact that they don't know the first thing about running a business doesn't change.

        A PLR website is still a low cost of entry business model. If I had to 'guess' I would say the price is about 10% of what it would cost to have an entire 'custom site' built for me, with original content, design, and artwork.

        That makes it even more attractive to... those same types of people.

        So in effect, you do sell to these people. Even if you aren't seeking them out to sell directly to them, they are seeking you out and seeking to buy from you, because somewhere, somehow, they came by the notion that PLR sites are push button set and forget models and for around $50 for the site and the domain, if they don't make any money, (because remember, they don't know the first thing about running a business) well... they can always just complain and call PLR a scam...

        And anyone who hears their cries makes a decision to either think the person is an idiot who didn't know what they were doing, or to rally behind a mission to 'STOP THE SCAMS.'

        Any low cost of entry model is going to attract those without the education to know even as much as the difference between a business opportunity 'information' product, a business opportunity, and a business operation.

        But the fact is, the low cost of entry models, DO exist, and they aren't 'scams.' The fact is, that if a person is willing to educate themselves about how to actually turn information about a business opportunity, into a business model, and create an operation out of it, they will succeed.

        Most people don't want to 'build the model' so they keep looking for opportunities that don't require the building of a model or the creation of an operation.

        Two more things... I know you said "The Fed isn't going after..." but I wasn't just referring to the FED... I'm referring to Clickbank, Plimus, Paypal, and anyone who has a problem with people selling other people INFORMATION on business opportunities, business opportunities themselves, or anything related to either, including operations.

        I sell 'make money' products. I sell a book on how to make money writing for the web... it's a viable model, and people want the info... yet I fall into the 'trap'....

        And... actually, regulatory agencies ALWAYS look for 'scapegoats.' Just like everyone else does.

        -Dani
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

          You may not envision your target market as a 'newbie', but they choose you simply through this process of reasoning and their own perception of risk mitigation.

          The fact that they don't know the first thing about running a business doesn't change.

          So in effect, you do sell to these people. Even if you aren't seeking them out to sell directly to them, they are seeking you out and seeking to buy from you, because somewhere, somehow, they came by the notion that PLR sites are push button set and forget models and for around $50 for the site and the domain, if they don't make any money, (because remember, they don't know the first thing about running a business) well... they can always just complain and call PLR a scam...

          -Dani
          It doesn't matter who I sell to as long as I don't defraud them, and I don't defraud them. It's pretty simple really. If you make fake income claims, use fake testimonials, tell people they'll lose 100 lbs by taking this pill, promise to deliver something and don't deliver, used forced continuity billing schemes, you might run into problems.

          You can type as many words as you want to try to convince people that everyone is at risk, but that's simply not the case.

          I would be far more uncomfortable in a lawless, unregulated country where anything goes than I am in a country that has laws against fraudulent marketing practices, one that protects consumers against being "taken" by people who have no business ethics.
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          • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            It doesn't matter who I sell to as long as I don't defraud them, and I don't defraud them. It's pretty simple really. If you make fake income claims, use fake testimonials, tell people they'll lose 100 lbs by taking this pill, promise to deliver something and don't deliver, used forced continuity billing schemes, you might run into problems.

            You can type as many words as you want to try to convince people that everyone is at risk, but that's simply not the case.

            I would be far more uncomfortable in a lawless, unregulated country where anything goes than I am in a country that has laws against fraudulent marketing practices, one that protects consumers against being "taken" by people who have no business ethics.
            Suzanne,
            I agrre with you.. fake claims, fake testimonials, etc... those are FRAUD... my point is that anyone who sells anything related to starting, running, operating your own business is being lumped in with fraud.

            Paypal, Plimus and Clickbank didn't say that they won't accept any product with fake income claimes, or fraudulent practices.

            They said any "business ops products' would not be accepted.

            -Dani
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

              Suzanne,
              I agrre with you.. fake claims, fake testimonials, etc... those are FRAUD... my point is that anyone who sells anything related to starting, running, operating your own business is being lumped in with fraud.

              Paypal, Plimus and Clickbank didn't say that they won't accept any product with fake income claimes, or fraudulent practices.

              They said any "business ops products' would not be accepted.

              -Dani
              They don't want to be in the position of having to check and monitor every product they're associated with so they do a clean sweep of the whole category. Undoubtedly some innocent businesses will be caught up in that sweep. I don't use Plimus or Clickbank, but if Paypal should mess with me after years of doing business with Paypal, I would just find another payment method.

              Those companies do have to protect themselves from the government regulations as well as the individual businesses who work through them, so I can see why they are reacting in this manner.

              Just as ad networks are being held responsible for "how" their affiliates promote offers, and they too have clamped down and made changes in their terms ... who knows when we'll see them just eliminating certain offers, like **** berries and other weight loss programs, to avoid the risk of being on the wrong side of the federal regulations.

              If the companies were mine or yours, wouldn't you do what you had to do to protect them from being shut down? I would.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

          I sell 'make money' products. I sell a book on how to make money writing for the web... it's a viable model, and people want the info... yet I fall into the 'trap'....
          I hear you loud and clear, Dani.

          You're an innocent victim.

          When regulators multiply and their teeth get stronger, one way or another, there are always innocent victims.

          What makes regulators multiply and their teeth get stronger is of course people continually pushing at the limits of what's allowed, and/or trying to deceive potential customers. It's action and reaction. When we don't collectively clean up our own industry, others will "do it for/to us", and that will be worse for us. It was ever thus.

          Ironically, the people who are often the first and loudest whiners about "nanny statism" and "excessive regulation" are the ones causing the problems in the first place.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            Ironically, the people who are often the first and loudest whiners about "nanny statism" and "excessive regulation" are the ones causing the problems in the first place.
            Agree with that. I think they scream the loudest because they are more at risk than others.

            The thing is, the FTC doesn't scour the Internet for every little article writer or web designer or ebook seller to bring down. The cases that they go after are brought to their attention by complaints ... usually thousands of them, that they and DAs receive regarding business scams. These companies have normally ripped people off to the tune of millions of dollars by the time they are indicted.

            I rarely ever even get a Paypal dispute, much less thousands of people complaining about my products and my profit ... nowhere near millions.

            Put your disclaimers on your sites, don't make false promises, don't use fake testimonials and I think you'll all be safe.

            As for Plimus, Clickbank, Paypal ... they are the big fish that the FTC will go after if they don't clean house. They don't have any choice in the matter.
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            • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              Agree with that. I think they scream the loudest because they are more at risk than others.

              The thing is, the FTC doesn't scour the Internet for every little article writer or web designer or ebook seller to bring down. The cases that they go after are brought to their attention by complaints ... usually thousands of them, that they and DAs receive regarding business scams. These companies have normally ripped people off to the tune of millions of dollars by the time they are indicted.

              I rarely ever even get a Paypal dispute, much less thousands of people complaining about my products and my profit ... nowhere near millions.

              Put your disclaimers on your sites, don't make false promises, don't use fake testimonials and I think you'll all be safe.

              As for Plimus, Clickbank, Paypal ... they are the big fish that the FTC will go after if they don't clean house. They don't have any choice in the matter.
              Well, first, I'm not screaming. I prefer reasonable discussions with free exchanges of thoughts and ideas to make my point... and I certainly never call for regulation, but from personal experience, I can tell you that when you say 'they're not looking for every little article writer' they're going after big fish and complaints, you're off the mark...

              Years ago, I built a website for a business I THOUGHT about going into at a later date. Certain 'parts' of the industry were regulated, but the part I was considering was not regulated.

              Two years after setting it up, (and having never done a damn thing to it or with the idea again) and two weeks after I let the domain name expire, but the site was still showing on the web, some bad people in the 'regulated' part of the business, did some very bad things, and the 'state agency in charge,' went on a Witchhunt.

              Do you know what they did to find a witch? A SEARCH, on the BROADEST possible keyword you could find in that industry, (yea, they were digging real hard when looking on Yahoo instead of for PUBLIC RECORDS where the actual documents of people IN that business ARE published) and found my site (I don't know how because I never did any SEO, traffic gen anything.. I didn't even know HOW to do that stuff back then...and I never got beyond just setting up the site...no links, no contact info, no optin.. nothing on it but some images and some text.

              There had never been any 'complaints' about ME in that industry (or any other for that matter) because I'd never done a single business transaction of any kind IN that industry...

              They had NOTHING but an expired domain name and a soon to be non-existent website to try and tie me to the 'bad guys' but they came into my office and attempted to demand I show them my files from ACTUAL business which had NOTHING to do with THE industry they were 'investigating.'

              My attorney told them to get a warrant, and then my attorney explained that what they wanted to do was comb my books to find ANYTHING... like a simple date entry error in the books, to indict me on SOMETHING... anything, that could link their 'investigation' to an 'indictment' (even they had NOTHING to do with each other, as they headline would say "While Investigating X, we found Y, and indicted Z) and now the public's sense of 'justice' is satisfied, because the 'public' doesn't even realize one had nothing to do with the other.

              So they're looking for ANYONE they can 'hang out' to be a scapegoat to justify the public outcry to punish everyone.


              And I have all my disclaimers, and I don't use fake anything, but what good does any of that do me if I can't collect funds? If I'm not collecting funds, then I don't need the disclaimers anyway.. the FTC can't touch me if I'm not making money, right?

              -Dani
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          • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            They don't want to be in the position of having to check and monitor every product they're associated with so they do a clean sweep of the whole category. Undoubtedly some innocent businesses will be caught up in that sweep. I don't use Plimus or Clickbank, but if Paypal should mess with me after years of doing business with Paypal, I would just find another payment method.

            Those companies do have to protect themselves from the government regulations as well as the individual businesses who work through them, so I can see why they are reacting in this manner.

            Just as ad networks are being held responsible for "how" their affiliates promote offers, and they too have clamped down and made changes in their terms ... who knows when we'll see them just eliminating certain offers, like **** berries and other weight loss programs, to avoid the risk of being on the wrong side of the federal regulations.

            If the companies were mine or yours, wouldn't you do what you had to do to protect them from being shut down? I would.
            Suzanne,
            Of course I would do what I had to do to protect them, but as you said, 'they don't want to be in the position of having to check an monitor?' Well why shouldn't they? Every other business is responsible for checking and monitoring who they do business with? Why should they be exempt from that responsibility of being in business?


            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            Correct. I'm not worried. I sell websites and domains for a living and there are plenty of options for receiving payments should Paypal decide that selling websites and building websites for people is a risky business.

            If your business is affected by the policies of a service, use another service. There's always going to be one around that facilitates moving money around.
            I use them all... and all have always been part of the back up plans for each each other... but now, we're looking at 'all' becoming the same problem for us.

            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            I hear you loud and clear, Dani.

            You're an innocent victim.

            When regulators multiply and their teeth get stronger, one way or another, there are always innocent victims.

            What makes regulators multiply and their teeth get stronger is of course people continually pushing at the limits of what's allowed, and/or trying to deceive potential customers. It's action and reaction. When we don't collectively clean up our own industry, others will "do it for/to us", and that will be worse for us. It was ever thus.

            Ironically, the people who are often the first and loudest whiners about "nanny statism" and "excessive regulation" are the ones causing the problems in the first place.
            Alexa,
            I am about as anti-nanny state, and anti-regulation as anyone can get. I don't think regulation is an answer for anything. As I stated earlier, I think that Clickbank, Paypal, Plimus and all the rest that want to make money should have to bear the same responsibilities of any other business, with who do they do business with by screening who they do business with... throwing the baby out with the bathwater the way they're doing is certainly looking like 'discrimination' to me.

            -Dani
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

              Suzanne,
              Of course I would do what I had to do to protect them, but as you said, 'they don't want to be in the position of having to check an monitor?' Well why shouldn't they? Every other business is responsible for checking and monitoring who they do business with? Why should they be exempt from that responsibility of being in business?
              It's called volume. You don't think that every WSO on this forum is opened up and read and tested for fraud ... no more can Paypal or Plimus monitor the behavior of every customer they have, so they sweep out a category that is the biggest problem and highest risk for them.
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              • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                It's called volume. You don't think that every WSO on this forum is opened up and read and tested for fraud ... no more can Paypal or Plimus monitor the behavior of every customer they have, so they sweep out a category that is the biggest problem and highest risk for them.
                Suzanne,
                But here on WF, Allen has put the onus of monitoring on all of us. When any of us sees a known 'scam', or even an MRR or PLR product, being sold in the WSO section, we're told to report it. And then his mods act on that appropriately, and remove anything that is against the rules. So he has taken measures to monitor what he allows be sold from his store.

                -Dani
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

                  Suzanne,
                  But here on WF, Allen has put the onus of monitoring on all of us. When any of us sees a known 'scam', or even an MRR or PLR product, being sold in the WSO section, we're told to report it. And then his mods act on that appropriately, and remove anything that is against the rules. So he has taken measures to monitor what he allows be sold from his store.

                  -Dani
                  You can put the burden of moderation on the members but that doesn't mean that is an efficient system to weed out all scams. One only has to read the WF, and over the months there are so many people's threads (that usually get deleted or locked due to Rule #1) that are screaming scam scam scam.

                  WF does act when there's complaints that they can validate, but I'm sure there's plenty of shady offers, PLR content being sold as original, etc. that slips through the cracks. As there are so many newbies buying these offers who really don't know very much, chances are a lot will buy stuff and not even realize they bought a rehashed PLR product or they won't complain when an offer says you'll make xxx in xxx days. Some just sulk away and never mention it, but they feel ripped off none-the-less.

                  A more seasoned marketer who buys the same product might instantly be aware that they just bought reworded PLR or a product that makes claims that doesn't deliver on those claims.

                  Paypal and Plimus and Clickbank are not going to adopt this kind of moderation. It wouldn't work for them. This is a forum and that's why it works in some degree for WF. Paypal, Plimus and Clickbank have to reduce risk and cleaning out the highest risk products are the way they are doing that.
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                  • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    You can put the burden of moderation on the members but that doesn't mean that is an efficient system to weed out all scams. One only has to read the WF, and over the months there are so many people's threads (that usually get deleted or locked due to Rule #1) that are screaming scam scam scam.

                    WF does act when there's complaints that they can validate, but I'm sure there's plenty of shady offers, PLR content being sold as original, etc. that slips through the cracks. As there are so many newbies buying these offers who really don't know very much, chances are a lot will buy stuff and not even realize they bought a rehashed PLR product or they won't complain when an offer says you'll make xxx in xxx days. Some just sulk away and never mention it, but they feel ripped off none-the-less.

                    A more seasoned marketer who buys the same product might instantly be aware that they just bought reworded PLR or a product that makes claims that doesn't deliver on those claims.

                    Paypal and Plimus and Clickbank are not going to adopt this kind of moderation. It wouldn't work for them. This is a forum and that's why it works in some degree for WF. Paypal, Plimus and Clickbank have to reduce risk and cleaning out the highest risk products are the way they are doing that.
                    You may be right, it may not be the right solution for them, but to make a sweeping generalization instead of searching for the right solution does not absolve them of the same responsibilities all other businesses have.

                    The FTC is there to deal with the 'scams', there's no reason for the payment processors to elect themselves to police the industries of the world and start 'discriminating' just to avoid their responsibility to their business.

                    -Dani
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                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

                      The FTC is there to deal with the 'scams', there's no reason for the payment processors to elect themselves to police the industries of the world and start 'discriminating' just to avoid their responsibility to their business.

                      -Dani
                      I don't really think they're attempting to police the industry. I think they're covering their own ass. Getting rid of high risk is a smart business move for any company, and if they run the risk of being targeted by the FTC or have a high rate of chargebacks in the MMO products as someone else suggested, eliminating that risk is what businesses do if they want to stay alive.
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                    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
                      Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

                      You may be right, it may not be the right solution for them, but to make a sweeping generalization instead of searching for the right solution does not absolve them of the same responsibilities all other businesses have.

                      The FTC is there to deal with the 'scams', there's no reason for the payment processors to elect themselves to police the industries of the world and start 'discriminating' just to avoid their responsibility to their business.

                      -Dani
                      When a car insurance company charges higher or lower rates for certain classes of drivers, it's not discriminating. They are acting on data about "higher-risk" categories.

                      They can't investigate every single person to see if they are a risk or not, so they paint them all with the same brush.

                      Same with PayPal, Plimus, etc. They are making generalizations to help minimize their risks.
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                      • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
                        Originally Posted by ShayRockhold View Post

                        When a car insurance company charges higher or lower rates for certain classes of drivers, it's not discriminating. They are acting on data about "higher-risk" categories.

                        They can't investigate every single person to see if they are a risk or not, so they paint them all with the same brush.

                        Same with PayPal, Plimus, etc. They are making generalizations to help minimize their risks.
                        Shay, but they aren't saying that 'too many white males ages 35-37' have been the #1 cause of their losses and refusing to ensure all white males ages 35-37.

                        9/10 times I side with business owners on business decisions, especially when it comes to CYA, however I just can't on this one.

                        There's already an 'authority' in place to deal with 'scams.'

                        Any business has the right to choose to do, or not do business with someone else, but when you start refusing to do business with a 'general sweep' of people, you start entering discrimination territory.

                        -Dani
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                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

                          Any business has the right to choose to do, or not do business with someone else, but when you start refusing to do business with a 'general sweep' of people, you start entering discrimination territory.

                          -Dani
                          Ok .. have it your way. They're discriminating. Doesn't change the bottom line. They're still not going to serve that market if they don't want to.
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                          • Profile picture of the author psresearch
                            It could soley be all about chargebacks - which would make total sense.

                            But another thing that's been changing is that law enforcement has started to focus more on gatekeepers in the distribution channels - all the way from the main promoters/shills in ponzis to the affiliates and affiliate networks themselves.

                            The FTC's Advertising and Marketing on the Internet: Rules of the Road now uses this language:
                            • Advertising agencies or website designers are responsible for reviewing the information used to substantiate ad claims. They may not simply rely on an advertiser's assurance that the claims are substantiated. In determining whether an ad agency should be held liable, the FTC looks at the extent of the agency's participation in the preparation of the challenged ad, and whether the agency knew or should have known that the ad included false or deceptive claims.
                            • To protect themselves, catalog marketers should ask for material to back up claims rather than repeat what the manufacturer says about the product. If the manufacturer doesn't come forward with proof or turns over proof that looks questionable, the catalog marketer should see a yellow "caution light" and proceed appropriately, especially when it comes to extravagant performance claims, health or weight loss promises, or earnings guarantees. In writing ad copy, catalogers should stick to claims that can be supported. Most important, catalog marketers should trust their instincts when a product sounds too good to be true."
                            I'm not 100% sure when that language went live, but I believe it was around July of 2009 right after the FTC's Operation ShortChange crackdown

                            According to this article re: FTC vs. MoneyGram by commercial litigation attorney Michael Webster from November, 2009:

                            "This is an important change in emphasis by the FTC. In seeking to stop those who enable fraud from profiting, the FTC has signaled its willingness to go beyond simply getting unenforceable default judgments against con criminals who have skipped on to the next con project."
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                            • Profile picture of the author drmani
                              Many years back, Jonathan Mizel responded to one of the
                              dozens of Clickbank bashing threads with an amazing post that
                              I still remember today.

                              It was about how Clickbank are still in business after
                              nearly 15 years, processing these "high risk" transactions
                              on THEIR merchant accounts - and that IM'ers, as a collective
                              group, should be thankful to them for sustaining operations
                              in such a difficult environment.

                              That thankfulness should probably be amplified and multiplied
                              now that Plimus, PayPal (and, I'm guessing, many more will
                              follow shortly) are tightening the rules and clamping down
                              on what they see as "offenders".

                              All success
                              Dr.Mani
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                        • Profile picture of the author davezan
                          Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

                          but when you start refusing to do business with a 'general sweep' of people, you start entering discrimination territory.
                          Well, isn't choosing rich guys with 6-packs over balding, middle-income men also
                          arguably discriminating too? Not meant as some sexist remark, but I've seen few
                          of them complain of that also.

                          Some hosting providers ban certain countries like Indonesia or ask users there to
                          send them proof of ID, while they don't do that to India-based ones. Now some
                          folks in those places also cry discrimination, but those hosts do that to check
                          for and prevent possible fraud.

                          One can't discriminate against age, sex and religion so far in the U.S. While it can
                          be arguably unfair to "discriminate" against a set of people based on a criteria or
                          so, that same unfairness also allows folks to choose whom to do business with.

                          Heck, you can even choose to discriminate against those you deem jerks. Some
                          of them might argue they're not jerks, though...

                          Maybe essentially, entities like the FTC are telling businesses something like "you
                          do this or we'll do this for you". Meaning to you.
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                        • Profile picture of the author ShayB
                          Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

                          Shay, but they aren't saying that 'too many white males ages 35-37' have been the #1 cause of their losses and refusing to ensure all white males ages 35-37.

                          -Dani
                          No, but insurance companies can (and do) refuse to insure certain people in certain areas because of risk factors. (If you tried to get a new insurance policy in certain counties of SC on a mobile home after Hurricane Hugo in 1989, you couldn't.)

                          Insurance companies can make general policies that make you un-insurable with them, such as x number of points off of your license, or certain violations, etc. The individual circumstances don't matter - the policy is designed to minimize the company's risk.

                          Check cashing companies can refuse to cash checks for a number of reasons. Again, it's minimizing risk.

                          All companies do whatever they can to minimize their risks. It's not discrimination. It's business.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      Aside from their shunning MMO stuff, Plimus is no cake walk. The process for putting a product on their system is a freakin' minefield. It's not user friendly at all. I'm not all that technical but I'm not an idiot either and it took me three days to list a product.
      Huh? It takes about 2 minutes to add a product.
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by Rich Struck View Post

        Huh? It takes about 2 minutes to add a product.
        Maybe so. It didn't for me. And when I was finished and wanted to test a couple of things in their "sandbox," I couldn't log into the sandbox because they have some weird security rule.

        After trying for an hour I sent them an email and was told I'd have to open a different account and add the product again to use the sandbox. Screw them.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
          Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

          Maybe so. It didn't for me. And when I was finished and wanted to test a couple of things in their "sandbox," I couldn't log into the sandbox because they have some weird security rule.

          After trying for an hour I sent them an email and was told I'd have to open a different account and add the product again to use the sandbox. Screw them.
          Sorry to hear of your troubles, I've never had any problems like that at all. Their support does leave something to be desired but I've found that once you actually get hold of someone they fix things pretty quickly.
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      • Profile picture of the author dark witness
        Well maybe this is a good opportunity for someone to come in and creat a site/program that actually takes us IM into consideration.

        There is a lot of junk out there and I think people are getting tired of it. I know I am and I have all but stopped paying any attention to clickbank products etc.

        I signed up with Plimus but on my first look through I didn't really see anything of interest so I didn't really get into promoting anything with them.
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        • Originally Posted by dark witness View Post

          I signed up with Plimus but on my first look through I didn't really see anything of interest so I didn't really get into promoting anything with them.
          In my opinion, Plimus is fantastic as a vendor but only so-so as an affiliate.
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      • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
        this is doubly interesting

        I have just received spam from f orex cowboy outfit referring me to
        plimus to get some ostensibly free stuff

        hope they are next
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    • Profile picture of the author noble
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      Aside from their shunning MMO stuff, Plimus is no cake walk. The process for putting a product on their system is a freakin' minefield. It's not user friendly at all. I'm not all that technical but I'm not an idiot either and it took me three days to list a product. You never know where you are in the process. They have some excellent videos but you won't find them anywhere near where you'll need them as you go helter skelter through their requirements, wait, some are not requirements, they're suggestions...

      I wrote a detailed email suggesting stuff that would make things easier and received a response from a bot asking for specifics. Ugh. IMO, Plimus is no great loss to the Internet marketing community.
      Its for advanced users. Instead of a generic PayPal page you get to customize your order page to look just like you're still on your website, they have a TON of really great features but as with all things in life you have to learn how to use them.

      I personally love Plimus and BTW if you use a standard full contract it takes me about 2 minutes to setup a product with a buy it now link and an instant delivery e-mail...
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    plimus SUCKS if you're an affiliate... their system is like 5 years behind the times.... personally, i won't promote any plimus offers because of their affiliate system.

    its that bad.
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  • Profile picture of the author DeusX
    Aside from their shunning MMO stuff, Plimus is no cake walk. The process for putting a product on their system is a freakin' minefield. It's not user friendly at all. I'm not all that technical but I'm not an idiot either and it took me three days to list a product. You never know where you are in the process. They have some excellent videos but you won't find them anywhere near where you'll need them as you go helter skelter through their requirements, wait, some are not requirements, they're suggestions...
    umm yesterday I've put my first ever product on Plimus (why not on Clickbank? - 50$ fee - cant afford now) it took me about 1h, but i have admit , the interface is pain in the neck, but after all , love to see "real time traffic monitor",bad thing for me is taht product will be listed on Plimus MP after at least 5 sales
    sorry for offtopic
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  • Profile picture of the author lizashaw
    I'm a little nervous about saying this as I'm a newbie here and no one here knows me and may take offence, so in advance no offence is intended this is just my personal point of view.

    This thing your all talking about regarding PLR etc, and specifically the false claims of income etc. If the industry as a whole banded together and set one simple rule this would be stopped and the feds, etc wouldn't have an argument, let me explain:

    I ignore all the claims of earnings, I don't even look at them but scroll past, all I'm interested in is what is the product, what does it do and how much is it, period! Unfortunately, I know I'm in the minority with that and that there are many peeps out there that take heed, not realising that yes the seller may well be making thousands but that is no guarantee of your earnings or anyone else's.

    So if the industry 1. Had a ban on putting any earnings claims on any product and 2. Made it a rule that any such product should have the wording 'this is no guarantee of high earnings' (or something similar) wouldn't this help to any extent?

    Even if we all worked in this way it'd be a start wouldn't it? show we are not really the bad guys? I know it probably isn't as simple as that.
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  • Profile picture of the author GetMoreTraffic
    It's all about chargebacks. The refund and chargeback rates for get-rich-quick products are through the roof. Plimus are just covering their ass before Visa/Mastercard start kicking it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ling Zhenqi
    hello. i have a question. is forex being affected by this ban?
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    Its inevitable that this will happen, Google Adwords has also stopped advertising Adwords that are geared towards making money, so it seems natural others would follow suit
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  • Profile picture of the author Jkhurramov
    I'm still selling on Plimus as a vendor but hasn't got that kind of message yet.
    Besides all of my products are in IM niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    Well, as long as people think selling the sizzle and that lying and fraud is okay, such as telling people that only 200 copies will be sold when you have no intention of limiting the distribution, expect this type of response from companies like Plimus to become a common occurrence.

    Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      Well, as long as people think selling the sizzle and that lying and fraud is okay, such as telling people that only 200 copies will be sold when you have no intention of limiting the distribution, expect this type of response from companies like Plimus to become a common occurrence.
      Exactly.

      All the way through this thread I've been thinking about the people (I nearly used another word) with the "Only 17 Copies Remaining!" on their Plimus (and ClickBank, and other) sales pages.

      They're usually the ones who are the first to whine about excessive regulation, and it's obvious to a lobotomized chimpanzee that they're the ones causing the problem, because they're liars, and attempting to deceive the public.

      And typically you can't even hold an intelligent conversation with them about what they're doing. Even if you can get them to acknowledge that they're blatantly deceiving people, you still can't make them understand that they're damaging all the rest of us as well as risking prosecution and the removal of their site: they usually think what they're doing is "ok" and that they "ought" to be allowed to do it and that if they're not, that's because of "nanny statism" and "excessive regulation" - in other words, they're simply not "normal people" with whom one can converse rationally.

      They're no better than the people who think it's ok to steal other people's copyrighted work.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marcel Pamphile
    I still love Plimus.
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    another one bites the dust. so to speak.

    This is interesting. Plimus are pretty good though.
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  • Profile picture of the author ShiningHero
    It was a matter of time before this would happen when stuff like Go Click Cash was allowed to be on the Plimus Market.

    Products like that ruin it for everybody.
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    • Profile picture of the author marlon
      Hi,

      Urban Legends | Urban Myths | Folklore | UrbanLegends.com

      There you go.

      There is nothing about it on the Plimus site.

      I see no official press releases about it.

      Plimus was started by 2 Internet marketers.

      Just because someone gets an email claiming this,
      doesn't make it true.

      I got an email that said my account with Bank America
      had been jacked up.

      I ain't got one.

      Unless and until someone proves further, this is a rumor
      not fact.

      I'm STUNNED that people have posted this on blogs based
      on extremely flimsy documentation of "a client got an email"
      with the vested interest of increasing views to their blog
      regardless of veracity.

      What we have is FEAR breeds rumors.

      I SUSPECT that some of these rumors going around are
      being started by someone with an ALTERNATIVE SERVICE
      and they have a vested interest in spreading rumors that
      people willingly pass along without a simple fact check.

      Marlon
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  • Profile picture of the author DeusX
    Today I was on Chat with Plimus support because I didn't receive a commission for yesterday sales. and guess what?

    I didn't received a commission because in next 48h or less they will REMOVE this product from the market! (YES its IM product) also, he recommend to NOT RUN OTHER PROMOTION FROM THIS VENDOR.
    I didn't received any official mail from Plimus or Vendor about that, the product is still on their MP, I've lost money and time on this product campaign.
    Sent mail to Plimus - no reply yet.
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  • Profile picture of the author slowstarter
    This is to be welcomed - as is the Panda update - as in effect all these people are doing is trying to improve the quality and integrity of what is on offer on the internet. There are plenty of genuine products out there to promote, without having to resort to the "make a million in 3 days $37" rubbish we keep seeing.
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