The WSO Section, did it ever have a soul?

13 years ago

It's all experiential.

Every WSO I've ever bought helped me in one way or another with
my online business.

And every WSO that I've ever run (and I've run well over 100 WSO's)
delivers quality, if not over-delivers and gets glowing testimonials.

So, in my experience, the WSO section has always had a soul. The spirit
is giving Warriors a "Special Offer" that can not be found anywhere else.

Best,
Shane

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Daniel44

13 years ago

Shane,

Of course it is, and I understand that for a seasoned warrior who can make his way through it, find the golden nuggets and is willing to do the work it an absolutly amazing resource and well worth the money you pay, but I feel those aren't the people it is primarily aimed at...

How many people new to the IM game do you know who will immediately go into proper action once they have read a WSO? I know more will give up and buy a new WSO and this will keep going...the newbie perspective is "if I buy this I might make money" and when they don't...it will squash there dreams and they will either rethink or come back to buy another. thus a massive circle ensues

The problem is, if the WSO's were only sold to seasoned warriors who were willing to work and realize there isn't a "magic bullet", it would make a lot less money

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Shane N

13 years ago

The fundamental point that you're missing, is that it's not the WSO section's fault that "people don't immediately take proper action" - It's the fault of the buyer of the WSO that doesn't take action.

Why are only "seasoned warriors" willing to work and take action?

I have many students who are newbies who take action right away
and start making money because they are motivated and ambitious.

Best,
Shane

Originally Posted by Daniel44

Shane,

Of course it is, and I understand that for a seasoned warrior who can make his way through it, find the golden nuggets and is willing to do the work it an absolutly amazing resource and well worth the money you pay.

However, how many people new to the IM game do you know who will immediately go into proper action once they have read a WSO? I know more will give up and buy a new WSO and this will keep going...

The problem is, if the WSO's were only sold to seasoned warriors who were willing to work, it would make a lot less money

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Daniel44

13 years ago

Shane,

I'm not saying it is all the WSO's fault, but some of the sales letters you see promise the world which a newbie can get very very drawn into (trust me, I know). Newbies who take action are next to none, not saying they don't exist, but they are rare. A proposed better way to do it would be the following:

-Give them a starter pack when they join the warrior forum, this goes through the very basics of making money online, and explaining some of the great resources the forum has if you work hard
-Only warriors with a minimum post count can buy WSO's
-Give them a clear warning before they go in

However, I'm fairly sure that would cause a massive loss of money for both the forum and warriors who do WSO's...but you would get more people taking action I can guarantee it

Originally Posted by Shane Natan

The fundamental point that you're missing, is that it's not the WSO section's fault that "people don't immediately take proper action" - It's the person's who buys the WSO fault.

Why are only "seasoned warriors" willing to work and take action?

I have many students who are newbies who take action right away
and start making money because they are motivated and ambitious.

Best,
Shane

Thanks
4 replies

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel44

Shane,

I'm not saying it is all the WSO's fault, but some of the sales letters you see promise the world which a newbie can get very very drawn into (trust me, I know). Newbies who take action are next to none, not saying they don't exist, but they are rare. A proposed better way to do it would be the following:

-Give them a starter pack when they join the warrior forum, this goes through the very basics of making money online, and explaining some of the great resources the forum has if you work hard
-Only warriors with a minimum post count can buy WSO's
-Give them a clear warning before they go in

However, I'm fairly sure that would cause a massive loss of money for both the forum and warriors who do WSO's...but you would get more people taking action I can guarantee it

When I was a newbie, I had the ambition to succeed.

I did not need someone to force me to do those things I needed to do after I got my education.

I was too busy running forward to stop... And if something like the Warrior Forum told me I needed to jump through a bunch of hoops to get their help, I would have shot them the finger and never returned.

You cannot help those who will not help themselves...

Just as you cannot stop a determined person...

p.s. This is not about whether we will make more or less money. It is not our job to protect those who lack the ambition to succeed, and it is not our responsibility to put an electric shock under your butt to force you to do what you should be doing anyway.

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Shane N

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel44

... A proposed better way to do it would be the following:

-Give them a starter pack when they join the warrior forum, this goes through the very basics of making money online, and explaining some of the great resources the forum has if you work hard
-Only warriors with a minimum post count can buy WSO's
-Give them a clear warning before they go in

However, I'm fairly sure that would cause a massive loss of money for both the forum and warriors who do WSO's...but you would get more people taking action I can guarantee it

Feel free to start your own IM forum and:

1. Give people a FREE starter pack when they join to help get them started making money...
2. Give your members a warning that the products aren't worth buying because
THEY probably won't take action
3. Limit the amount of people who can buy products based on post count

BTW - Do you think those people (freebie seekers) will be action takers?

There are too many flaws in your philosophy for it to be taken seriously anywhere in the realm of internet marketing or ANY market for that matter as others have mentioned... I know that you are well-intentioned though.

Best,
Shane

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la dominatrix

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Shane Natan

Feel free to start your own IM forum and:

1. Give people a FREE starter pack when they join to help get them started making money...
2. Give your members a warning that the products aren't worth buying because
THEY probably won't take action
3. Limit the amount of people who can buy products based on post count

BTW - Do you think those people (freebie seekers) will be action takers?

There are too many flaws in your philosophy for it to be taken seriously anywhere in the realm of internet marketing or ANY market for that matter as others have mentioned... I know that you are well-intentioned though.

Best,
Shane

LOL A starter pack is no better thna a WSO if soemone is not going to take action nothing will motivate them not even a free starter pack, which they won't read

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CDarklock

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel44

-Give them a clear warning before they go in

http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...11-2011-a.html

"New People Here: The WSO forum is full of great deals and the vast majority of the people are 100% honest. People have also made and continue to make small and large fortunes posting their deals in here. Even though most Warriors are honest and offer real value, it pays to use common sense here just as it does anywhere else on the Internet."

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Daniel44

13 years ago

How many of us read them when we first went into there? All the shiny stuff at the bottom and then a thread saying "rules please read"...

Originally Posted by CDarklock

http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...11-2011-a.html

"New People Here: The WSO forum is full of great deals and the vast majority of the people are 100% honest. People have also made and continue to make small and large fortunes posting their deals in here. Even though most Warriors are honest and offer real value, it pays to use common sense here just as it does anywhere else on the Internet."

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Shane N 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel44

How many of us read them when we first went into there? All the shiny stuff at the bottom and then a thread saying "rules please read"...

There you go again blaming the FORUM for people not reading the rules...

:rolleyes:
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KimW 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel44

How many of us read them when we first went into there? All the shiny stuff at the bottom and then a thread saying "rules please read"...

Sounds like the person that opens the box, throws the instructions to the side and starts trying to fit all the pieces together,then is upset when the final product doesn't look like the picture on the box.

Rules and instructions are there for a reason. Ther eis no one to blame if they don't read them except the individual.
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Michael Shook

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel44

Shane,

I'm not saying it is all the WSO's fault, but some of the sales letters you see promise the world which a newbie can get very very drawn into (trust me, I know). Newbies who take action are next to none, not saying they don't exist, but they are rare. A proposed better way to do it would be the following:

-Give them a starter pack when they join the warrior forum, this goes through the very basics of making money online, and explaining some of the great resources the forum has if you work hard
-Only warriors with a minimum post count can buy WSO's
-Give them a clear warning before they go in

However, I'm fairly sure that would cause a massive loss of money for both the forum and warriors who do WSO's...but you would get more people taking action I can guarantee it

Just because a person has a lower post count does not mean they are new to internet marketing.

I do not think you can guarantee that any more or fewer people will take action on anything. That sounds like it might be an opinion.

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tpw

13 years ago

The WSO section is an advertising platform only.

The mods do not have the time to review every product presented in that marketplace, but people who buy those products are encouraged to add their two cents about all products and services offered there.

You are also encouraged to ask questions about the offer, if the sales copy is less than clear.

I have released about ten WSO's there, some under my own account, and many as JV's with another Warrior.

I believe that all of my WSO's offer real value, and I do not make claims about things I have not done for myself.

If I tell you in the copy that I have made money using that technique or process, then I have.

If I tell you in the copy that I have generated traffic using those techniques, I have.

If I tell you that I am going to show you how to write articles consistently in 20 minutes or less, then I am speaking from experience.

For me, product development is a way to get paid more than once, for something I have done. I am still selling products that I created many months ago.

But product creation still accounts for only a small portion of my overall income.

I have made a lot of money online, and now I also teach others how to duplicate some of things I have done.

Instead of charging hundreds of dollars for coaching, I charge between $7 and $47 for products that will teach you those things that I would teach you in a coaching course.

But instead of getting paid for my time, when I create a product, I can get paid for my knowledge.

So, what exactly is wrong with doing that?

p.s. It is not my responsibility to make you "do the work". If I promised to teach you something, that is my sole responsibility in the transaction.

People, who don't complete their education by getting to work, are responsible for their own failures.

I am not going to take the blame for people, who don't have the motivation to follow through or the ambition to succeed.

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Rod Cortez

13 years ago

Subforums have souls?

RoD

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JohnMcCabe

13 years ago

Daniel, let me ask you this...

If you go to a flea market and buy something that doesn't work, do you ask why the owner of the market didn't check every vendor's merchandise before renting them a booth?

If you go to a farmer's market and buy a sour piece of fruit, do you blame whoever organized the market for not tasting every piece of fruit?

Probably not.

The WSO section is a market, a bazaar where Make Money products are sold and bought. If a product sold there doesn't match up to your standards, why blame the market?

If you buy something that doesn't measure up, go back to the thread and post your dissatisfaction along with your reasons.

If you wouldn't expect a shopping mall, flea market or bazaar to 'have a soul', why would you expect such from the WSO section?

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Daniel44

13 years ago

Sorry for the triple post...posts are coming in as I'm posting and I keep missing them...anyway!

These markets all have some kind of rules, I'm pretty sure if you were selling sour pieces of fruit at a farmers market you would be closed down rather quickly.
Let me ask you this, how many newbies on this forum do you think are "well off" and happy with the amount of money they make? They might put there savings or last of there money in there before they go broke, internet marketing is a desperate niche, probably one of the most saturated on the internet. I still think there should be some kind of code of conduct, not promising dreams to people who are already broke.

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Daniel, let me ask you this...

If you go to a flea market and buy something that doesn't work, do you ask why the owner of the market didn't check every vendor's merchandise before renting them a booth?

If you go to a farmer's market and buy a sour piece of fruit, do you blame whoever organized the market for not tasting every piece of fruit?

Probably not.

The WSO section is a market, a bazaar where Make Money products are sold and bought. If a product sold there doesn't match up to your standards, why blame the market?

If you buy something that doesn't measure up, go back to the thread and post your dissatisfaction along with your reasons.

If you wouldn't expect a shopping mall, flea market or bazaar to 'have a soul', why would you expect such from the WSO section?

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel44

Let me ask you this, how many newbies on this forum do you think are "well off" and happy with the amount of money they make?

How many "rich" people do you think are happy with the amount of money they make?

No matter how much money we make, we always want more.

If people cannot "afford" to buy products here, they shouldn't.

And if they are silly enough to put WSO-purchases ahead of their family responsibilities, then they are stupid.

If people buy products and don't use them, as you appear to have done, then it is not because vendors cheated them... It is because they cheated themselves...

The only person to blame for your failure is you... Stop looking for a scapegoat.

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Daniel44

13 years ago

i was using myself as an example, I learnt from the ones I didn't (and the ones I couldn't, the "one-shot wonders") take action on. Probably not the lesson they wanted me to learn, but I learnt alright.

As for not being able to afford it, the WSO forum is promising these guys they will make money, that it will bust debt etc with a few simple steps!

There was a WSO I bought a while ago on traffic, all it had in it was an upsell to a "lifetime" membership product for $297 (made by the same guy, although they don't tell you that...) and then some rehashed stuff on SEO.

Originally Posted by tpw

How many "rich" people do you think are happy with the amount of money they make?

No matter how much money we make, we always want more.

If people cannot "afford" to buy products here, they shouldn't.

And if they are silly enough to put WSO-purchases ahead of their family responsibilities, then they are stupid.

And if people buy products and don't use them, as you appear to have done, then it is not because vendors cheated them... It is because they cheated themselves...

The only person to blame for your failure is you... Stop looking for a scapegoat.

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JohnMcCabe

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel44

Sorry for the triple post...posts are coming in as I'm posting and I keep missing them...anyway!

These markets all have some kind of rules, I'm pretty sure if you were selling sour pieces of fruit at a farmers market you would be closed down rather quickly.
Let me ask you this, how many newbies on this forum do you think are "well off" and happy with the amount of money they make? They might put there savings or last of there money in there before they go broke, internet marketing is a desperate niche, probably one of the most saturated on the internet. I still think there should be some kind of code of conduct, not promising dreams to people who are already broke.

Yes, if I were selling sour fruit and people spread the word, I'd be out of business - either shut down or simply lack buyers. If buyers in the WSO section can show evidence of dishonesty or fraud, the offer disappears; the cheat often disappears as well.

If buyers in the WSO section would post their reaction and results for these shoddy offers - the same thing happens. Would-be buyers are warned off. The mechanism for spilling the beans on "sour fruit" is there, but not enough buyers take responsibility for using it.

The simple truth is that you can't protect someone from himself. If a drunk wants a drink, he'll find a way. If someone dreams of buried treasure, he'll find a way to dig.

The lucky ones get their noses bloodied a few times and wise up. The rest keep chasing rainbows, looking for that pot of gold, until they drop.

As for how many newbies are happy with what they have, that's a specious question. If they were truly content with what they have, they wouldn't be looking for ways to get more, especially the kind of pie-in-the-sky products you're mad at.

As for a code of conduct, the cheats and liars would happily sign it with their right hand while picking your pocket with the left.

I'm afraid you're tilting at windmills with this one, my friend...

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ExRat 13 years ago

Hi Daniel44,

The WSO Section, did it ever have a soul?

Friday night viewpoint
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Andyhenry

13 years ago

Hey Daniel,

I guess you're getting the replies you expected.

I can understand where you're coming from as I do feel that the wso section is a much different place than it used to be and I rarely run wso's now purely because there's so much noise that I don't think it's worth the effort. Since I usually just create products to share what's working for me I'm not prepared to make any exagerated promises and create a vague sales page that doesn't actually tell you what you're buying (which seems to be a trend these days) and so unless people know who you are and buy because they know they can trust you, you're up against a lot of noise.

I do still buy wso's but more out of curiosity than positive expectation.

As far as the other stuff goes - it's just a paid advertising area that's supposed to give warriors a deal better than the general public, so it's not actually related to the forum from a quality perspective and it's important to understand that being listed does not mean sanctioned or recommended by Allen or anyone else.
Andy

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Daniel44

13 years ago

Hi Andy,

Yeah I am, I just mainly wanted to get my feelings out there on the whole subject and have a debate. I personally dread to think how much wasted money goes through that forum...WSO Pro is at $8 million so far.

The issue for me is that newbs get trapped in it, buy something that they shouldn't be buying and you can't just blame the newbie for that...we all know better, we all know there is a lot of noise and a lot of products with vauge and promising sales pages that we wouldn't go near.

The question is, what's the purpose of the sales page? If someone truely needed a product you were selling, why would you have reals and reals of "proof" etc trying to convince someone to buy it?

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Hey Daniel,

I guess you're getting the replies you expected.

I can understand where you're coming from as I do feel that the wso section is a much different place than it used to be and I rarely run wso's now purely because there's so much noise that I don't think it's worth the effort. Since I usually just create products to share what's working for me I'm not prepared to make any exagerated promises and create a vague sales page that doesn't actually tell you what you're buying (which seems to be a trend these days) and so unless people know who you are and buy because they know they can trust you, you're up against a lot of noise.

I do still buy wso's but more out of curiosity than positive expectation.

As far as the other stuff goes - it's just a paid advertising area that's supposed to give warriors a deal better than the general public, so it's not actually related to the forum from a quality perspective and it's important to understand that being listed does not mean sanctioned or recommended by Allen or anyone else.
Andy

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel44

The issue for me is that newbs get trapped in it, buy something that they shouldn't be buying and you can't just blame the newbie for that...we all know better, we all know there is a lot of noise and a lot of products with vauge and promising sales pages that we wouldn't go near.

If people will not do their due diligence when looking at an offer, who can we blame other than the buyer?

Buyers should be adults, who are responsible enough to know how to spend their money.

I don't believe that anyone should protect me from myself. If I want to be stupid with my money, IT IS MY MONEY!!!

So why would I want to inhibit the growth of others, based on some arbitrary list of rules that you think we should engage.

If 1-in-200 buy my products and end up realizing the dream of working from home, then my product was valuable and I did not cheat anyone.

The 199 who sat on their hands instead of taking action are solely responsible for what they do with the education I give them.

Originally Posted by Daniel44

The question is, what's the purpose of the sales page? If someone truely needed a product you were selling, why would you have reals and reals of "proof" etc trying to convince someone to buy it?

The question is what one needs to put on the page to have effective sales copy.

If I know that I am offering good value to you, it is my job to give you the information that you need to make an educated decision.

Sometimes it makes sense to provide reams of proof, and sometimes it doesn't.

When the social proof is necessary, I provide it. When it is not, I don't.

But social proof can be faked, and from some sellers, it usually is. (When the WF finds WSO's with fake screen shots, offers get taken down, and sellers get banned.)

Either I have credibility with you or I don't, and social proof is not going to change that.

If you trust me, buy from me.

If you don't trust me, don't let the door hit you on the butt on your way out and down the road.

Originally Posted by Daniel44

How many of us read them when we first went into there? All the shiny stuff at the bottom and then a thread saying "rules please read"...

If you won't take responsibility for yourself, why should we?

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BIG Mike

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel44

Hi Andy,

Yeah I am, I just mainly wanted to get my feelings out there on the whole subject and have a debate. I personally dread to think how much wasted money goes through that forum...WSO Pro is at $8 million so far.

The issue for me is that newbs get trapped in it, buy something that they shouldn't be buying and you can't just blame the newbie for that...we all know better, we all know there is a lot of noise and a lot of products with vauge and promising sales pages that we wouldn't go near.

The question is, what's the purpose of the sales page? If someone truely needed a product you were selling, why would you have reals and reals of "proof" etc trying to convince someone to buy it?

Daniel,

There's no way to control what a person visiting the WF buys - people need to be accountable for their own purchasing decisions.

The WF is not the "Seller" like an Ebay or Amazon...as previously mentioned, they're a "Listing Service" at best.

They do have a commenting mechanism in place for the buyer to leave a comment and they do have moderators that can be alerted if something scammy is going on. But ultimately, it's the buyer's responsibility for their own due diligence.

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Bill Farnham 13 years ago

Daniel,

This isn't a perfect world.

If it was, Allen Says would be President and the unemployment rate would be a negative number.

It isn't, he isn't.

Just concentrate on the things under your control and keep moving forward.

Looks like you've lost the better part of a day, already.

~Bill
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Daniel44

13 years ago

Hi Mike,

and that right there, is the reason that it is horribly horribly flawed and makes a massive profit from unsuspecting newbies who fall into it.

Those of you who do great WSO's and give email support etc I commend your efforts, but the other 80% of the "noise" is what 80% of the newbies fall into, and they spend there last money there hoping to "get rich quick" as the WSO promised and had all these beautiful screenshots of $100's a day, and some even promise it will get the family out of debt!

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

Daniel,

There's no way to control what a person visiting the WF buys - people need to be accountable for their own purchasing decisions.

The WF is not the "Seller" like an Ebay or Amazon...as previously mentioned, they're a "Listing Service" at best.

They do have a commenting mechanism in place for the buyer to leave a comment and they do have moderators that can be alerted if something scammy is going on. But ultimately, it's the buyer's responsibility for their own due diligence.

Thanks
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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel44

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

There's no way to control what a person visiting the WF buys - people need to be accountable for their own purchasing decisions.

Hi Mike,

and that right there, is the reason that it is horribly horribly flawed and makes a massive profit from unsuspecting newbies who fall into it.

Those of you who do great WSO's and give email support etc I commend your efforts, but the other 80% of the "noise" is what 80% of the newbies fall into, and they spend there last money there hoping to "get rich quick" as the WSO promised and had all these beautiful screenshots of $100's a day, and some even promise it will get the family out of debt!

THIS is the reason why the Warrior Forum is flawed?!?

Dude, if people would get off their asses and do what they are taught, then no one in this forum would be broke!

If people would just take action on what they have learned, many families would already have been out of debt.

Scapegoating the forum for your unwillingness to "do" will not change the fact that if you failed, YOU would be the reason you have failed to achieve your dreams...

Making excuses for others, because they are unwilling to "do" what they should be doing, also will not change the fact that if they fail, then THEY are the reason they will fail to achieve their dreams...

If people only want to buy products and do nothing with them, then maybe they are buying WSO's for Entertainment Purposes Only...

And if people want to be entertained, why should we stop them from buying their entertainment?

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LB

13 years ago

You are stating two conflicting arguments.

On one hand, you are asking for a system to weed out people that aren't really successful and selling garbage.

Then, you argue that those who are successful wouldn't be selling a product for $17 anyway.

By your logic 100% of all people shouldn't sell WSOs.

Think about what you are actually asking. If nothing else, you should be happy; you can make wonderful WSOs that are better than everyone else's.

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HigherPrThanGod

13 years ago

Maybe every WSO should have a "experience meter"? That is, is the WSO for beginners, intermediate or for more advanced users? This would be for the WSO originater to decide but if you synchronize this across all WSO's it might help people to understand what kind of knowledge base the WSO is intended for.

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Michael Shook

13 years ago

Originally Posted by HigherPrThanGod

Maybe every WSO should have a "experience meter"? That is, is the WSO for beginners, intermediate or for more advanced users? This would be for the WSO originater to decide but if you synchronize this across all WSO's it might help people to understand what kind of knowledge base the WSO is intended for.

Unless you have an external set of standards in place which everyone would use to judge the WSO's on experience basis, all you have is one person's opinion on who the product is appropriate for.

In my experience with systems like this, it usually comes down to "Appropriate for all experience levels" as the most desired measure.

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jasonthewebmaster

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel44

Hey guys,

I've been thinking recently about the WSO section, in my early days around here I bought a lot of WSO's and didn't take action (as I'm sure a lot of you did)

Out of the 15 or so I have on my hard drive, 2 or 3 of the more recent ones I bought look like they could be implemented into a real business model (I'm a lot more conservative about what I buy). The rest of it just seems to be rehashed stuff, or someone telling of a one-hit wonder that couldn't ever be implemented.

How come stuff like that is allowed in? Only 1/5th of the people on the forum at any one time are actually registered members, which means a lot of guests must be browsing the WSO section and will fall for the "hype" much like I did.

It just seems very strange that the heart and soul of this forum is newbies buying WSO's...maybe this is the online business, selling people things they don't need (otherwise there wouldn't be a long sales letter convincing people to buy)...but it just seems very very shady, and begs the question, if people were making what they claim they do in the long sales letters, why are they selling there rehashed $17 report anyway?

The fact there are no rules, no middle man as such (like eBay, amazon ertc, if you buy something you have the right to return it and get a full refund)...makes it even more shady to walk through

PS: Those who do good honest WSO's (Coleen Slater, Nicholas Breen and others) this is not a knock against you, but you appear to be the minority...

/rant

You have only bought 15 WSO's .. yet you are commenting on the quality of a majority of WSO's?

I contend that the MAJORITY of WSO's are good quality. I have bought over 100 of them, so I would know.

Furthermore, there ARE rules to posting WSO's... and any WSO that is a scam or does not deliver on promises will quickly be exposed thanks to the ability of ANYONE to comment on your WSO.

I have seen crap or scam WSO's get banned once they were exposed for the lies they were.

Generally speaking, buying a digital info-product is MUCH safer when you buy it here, than anywhere else on the web!!

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vanillawoods

13 years ago

Well, this is an interesting thread.

I can understand why Daniel is bitter. When you do get a bad WSO or any internet marketing product that doesn't work of course you could become bitter.

But you could ask for your money back, and you could post your opinion on the WSO thread.

However finding the right WSO, and implementing it to succeed is a must in any WSO.

I too have learned lot's of nuggets from WSO's I have bought. Some directly, and some indirectly have made me money.

See when you take what you have learned and creatively put a product or something together that works, you will succeed.

This is what marketing is.

You only need to educate yourself, put the pieces together, then create.

You will have buyers, and a successful business.

Helping others to create...

Thanks
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Ken Strong 13 years ago

Originally Posted by vanillawoods

Well, this is an interesting thread.

Sure, except there are already too many threads on the same subject...
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The WSO Section, did it ever have a soul?

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