[UPDATED - SF WEEKLY] Amazon To TERMINATE Affiliate Accounts In California

342 replies
UPDATE: Jake from SF Weekly called my up yesterday and asked me a ton of questions about how I felt about this decision on Amazons behalf would effect my bottom line and how I felt the situation could have been better dealt with.

I'm not a big Amazon dude so I couldn't give him those juicy answers. He was looking for someone who actually makes a living selling Amazon products. If that is you, and you wanna get some extra publicity, PM me and I may be able to put your in touch with Jake.

UPDATE:
Just got another email from Amazon about 15 hours ago now and it appears that the bill has been passed into law... Sorry Amazon peeps

Here's the exact email I got from Amazon...

"Hello,

Unfortunately, Governor Brown has signed into law the bill that we emailed you about earlier today. As a result of this, contracts with all California residents participating in the Amazon Associates Program are terminated effective today, June 29, 2011. Those California residents will no longer receive advertising fees for sales referred to Amazon.com, Endless.com, MYHABIT.COM or SmallParts.com. Please be assured that all qualifying advertising fees earned before today will be processed and paid in full in accordance with the regular payment schedule.

You are receiving this email because our records indicate that you are a resident of California. If you are not currently a resident of California, or if you are relocating to another state in the near future, you can manage the details of your Associates account here. And if you relocate to another state in the near future please contact us for reinstatement into the Amazon Associates Program.



To avoid confusion, we would like to clarify that this development will only impact our ability to offer the Associates Program to California residents and will not affect your ability to purchase from Amazon.com, Endless.com, MYHABIT.COM or SmallParts.com.



We have enjoyed working with you and other California-based participants in the Amazon Associates Program and, if this situation is rectified, would very much welcome the opportunity to re-open our Associates Program to California residents. As mentioned before, we are continuing to work on alternative ways to help California residents monetize their websites and we will be sure to contact you when these become available.



Regards,
The Amazon Associates Team"


Just got an email from Amazon guys, and this could be detrimental to anyone that lives in California who makes a living off of selling Amazon products.

Here is EXACTLY what the email said...

"Hello,

For well over a decade, the Amazon Associates Program has worked with thousands of California residents. Unfortunately, a potential new law that may be signed by Governor Brown compels us to terminate this program for California-based participants. It specifically imposes the collection of taxes from consumers on sales by online retailers - including but not limited to those referred by California-based marketing affiliates like you - even if those retailers have no physical presence in the state.


We oppose this bill because it is unconstitutional and counterproductive. It is supported by big-box retailers, most of which are based outside California, that seek to harm the affiliate advertising programs of their competitors. Similar legislation in other states has led to job and income losses, and little, if any, new tax revenue. We deeply regret that we must take this action.


As a result, we will terminate contracts with all California residents that are participants in the Amazon Associates Program as of the date (if any) that the California law becomes effective. We will send a follow-up notice to you confirming the termination date if the California law is enacted. In the event that the California law does not become effective before September 30, 2011, we withdraw this notice. As of the termination date, California residents will no longer receive advertising fees for sales referred to Amazon.com, Endless.com, MYHABIT.COM or SmallParts.com. Please be assured that all qualifying advertising fees earned on or before the termination date will be processed and paid in full in accordance with the regular payment schedule.


You are receiving this email because our records indicate that you are a resident of California. If you are not currently a resident of California, or if you are relocating to another state in the near future, you can manage the details of your Associates account here. And if you relocate to another state in the near future please contact us for reinstatement into the Amazon Associates Program.


To avoid confusion, we would like to clarify that this development will only impact our ability to offer the Associates Program to California residents and will not affect their ability to purchase from Amazon.com, Endless.com, MYHABIT.COM or SmallParts.com.


We have enjoyed working with you and other California-based participants in the Amazon Associates Program and, if this situation is rectified, would very much welcome the opportunity to re-open our Associates Program to California residents. We are also working on alternative ways to help California residents monetize their websites and we will be sure to contact you when these become available.


Regards,
The Amazon Associates Team"



Hope this shed some light on the recent conversations going on throughout this forum and exactly what Amazon is planning on doing once this law is passed.



We all wish that it does not pass, but hey, thats politics...


Your thoughts?
#accounts #affiliate #amazon #california #terminate
  • Profile picture of the author guitarjosh
    Holy moley. Some folk are gonna' be piiiiised off.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4162958].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author zenmack
      Originally Posted by guitarjosh View Post

      Holy moley. Some folk are gonna' be piiiiised off.
      Yup, I am pissed. I had just set my girlfriend up with a Amazon affiliate program for her site How To Dress For Men| Dressing lessons for men to attract the eyes of women. and was going to open up a store for her and...

      I set up my son with a skateboard shop http://8385shop.com and that is down the tube too.

      And my own bookstore for the dating niche will be trashed:

      Player Supremes Store

      And what is funny is I just got a 13.00 check from them yesterday. Must of been my severance pay...lol.
      Signature

      The worlds best dating coach
      http://zenmack.com

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4182896].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author zenmack
        Book store is still there and links work but the affiliate is probably disconnected.

        Forgot to check.
        Signature

        The worlds best dating coach
        http://zenmack.com

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4182904].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author whynes
          Originally Posted by zenmack View Post

          Book store is still there and links work but the affiliate is probably disconnected.

          Forgot to check.

          I would expect the links will continue to work forever. Amazon has sent
          your termination notice. It's effective immediately. As far as the nexus
          law goes, the ties are severed.

          Since they have no control over what you do with your website, they'll
          be quite happy to let you drive traffic to their site without compensation.

          Business is business.

          As I've posted earlier, I have no ill will toward Amazon. I did,
          however, immediately take down any pages with clickable links
          to the Amazon store. And I've removed my URL from my signature.

          As I said, business is business. I don't drive traffic for free,
          even if I have to do a little work to make sure I don't. More
          of a symbolic gesture than anything else, since I'm brand
          new at this.

          Hopefully, by next Wednesday, I'll be approved for skimlinks,
          switched the links in my site, and be back up waiting for my
          first sale
          Signature

          Wayne

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4182966].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author brunom
    Oh my god, glad I'm not from California. I wasn't expecting that.
    Signature
    1500 Backlinks For Youtube Videos

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4162971].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author BloggingPro
    I was using an address in New Mexico and just moved it to a parents address in California because I heard through the pipeline New Mexico was going down. Now I'm moving it back to New Mexico. I will open a bank account and PO box in every damn state if I have to, to keep my Amazon Associates account alive.
    Signature
    You're going to fail. If you're afraid of failure then you do not belong in the Internet Marketing Business. Period.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4162974].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author J Bold
      Originally Posted by BloggingPro View Post

      I was using an address in New Mexico and just moved it to a parents address in California because I heard through the pipeline New Mexico was going down. Now I'm moving it back to New Mexico. I will open a bank account and PO box in every damn state if I have to keep my Amazon Associates account alive.
      Try one of those business friendly states like Nevada, etc.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4162999].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author canard5
        Just got the same email. Hmmm I hadn't made any money with Amazon yet, but now I guess I can't.
        Signature

        Find Simple and Honest Reviews for all the latest Internet Marketing Products at SimplyHonestIMReviews.com

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163013].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author MatthewNeer
        Originally Posted by redicelander View Post

        Try one of those business friendly states like Nevada, etc.
        Spot on! Gotta love me some Nevada!
        Signature
        Three (3) Income Streams DFY
        New FREE Website Builds Your List
        And Earns From 3 Income Streams
        http://ListLeverage.com
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163017].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author johnjg
      YES! Absolutely. Open up a box at a UPS store or any other Mailbox service. Register there, and have all of your money sent there - bank account set up there, etc... You CAN work around this, you just have to take some steps to ensure that your earnings are not lost.

      I'm not from California... But I do feel for all of you there! Sorry to hear this, very sorry!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171894].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    So I guess you Californians need to relocate your ISP to another state no? Bizarre.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4162979].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BloggingPro
      Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

      So I guess you Californians need to relocate your ISP to another state no? Bizarre.
      No just change your mailing address inside the account.

      When I first signed up I was a Colorado associate. The very next day they dumped Colorado affiliates (we were one of the first to go). So I drove about an hour down to a city in New Mexico and opened up a bank account and PO box. It would still be working if I didn't get spooked a few months ago and switch to an address in California.

      I changed it back yesterday for most of my tracking numbers, but I forgot one--and got this email. I am going to be so mad if I did myself in with the move.
      Signature
      You're going to fail. If you're afraid of failure then you do not belong in the Internet Marketing Business. Period.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163018].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author zoqy71
      It will not be long before this idea goes international. The E.U. is already looking at ways to tax 9sales tax/duty) sales from 'off shore' sellers. I will become a case of double taxation. Bad for everyone and a major set back to internet retailing.
      Plans are afoot to also tighten up personal taxation. i.e. if you earn from a U.S. based company, you will have to pay tax on those earnings in the U.S. first and then again in your country of residence. That could well mean paying 80% tax on your gross income.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163350].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    Ouch...just read about this in the WSJ:

    Amazon Threatens to Cut Affiliates in California - WSJ.com

    I think they're politicking...just trying to apply pressure to make sure this doesn't happen.
    Signature
    Website Brokers - We can help you sell businesses making $500 to $50K per month.

    Free Website Valuation - How much is your website really worth? Find out here, free.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163015].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Vanessa Reece
      It's very difficult to have an opinion on this without getting too political. I'm not effected by this but I definitely feel everyone should be supporting fellow IM-ers and blogging this all over the place - not just regarding Cali but in general. Can we get a viral 'hell no' going on the net I wonder?

      The short term solution is to change states for business - but what happens when more and more states decide to follow suit? I don't know if that's even possible? Is any state truly safe from this forever? Food for thought.

      Thanks for the heads up Matthew.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163052].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    The only thing surprising about this is that there was anyone in the Amazon program still having a California address in their account.

    Now the question is whether Amazon will sell off its California subsidiaries. It will still owe sales taxes even without affiliates because of its related business entities.

    .
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163020].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
      Here's the REAL problem ...

      CA legislator's don't get paid until there is a budget deal. The new deal just announced anticipates $200 Million in revenue from the Amazon tax.

      But if Amazon pulls out, there is no $200M, and no balanced budged.

      Maybe instead of posting here this logic should be sent to the CA state controller telling him to keep withholding their pay. A huge hole just got shot into the budget.

      .
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163079].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author SteveDolan
        Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

        Here's the REAL problem ...

        CA legislator's don't get paid until there is a budget deal. The new deal just announced anticipates $200 Million in revenue from the Amazon tax.

        But if Amazon pulls out, there is no $200M, and no balanced budged.

        Maybe instead of posting here this logic should be sent to the CA state controller telling him to keep withholding their pay. A huge hole just got shot into the budget.

        .
        Well I earn a fair amount from Amazon as an affiliate. If this law passes (and it probably will with a string lobby from Big Box retailers) then not only does CA NOT get the sales tax revenue from Amazon (and eventually every other online retailer) but they'll lose the tax on the income that I was making.

        Kinda reminds me of a little known law passes in the UK in 2000 called IR35 (I'm from London originally). It wiped out my consulting business so I emigrated to the US so that I could continue to work. The predicted tax revenues from that also never materialized and caused a 'brain drain' in the UK.

        This legislation will also have far reaching and unintended consequences too. Personally I'll just use either my Nevada or Alaska Corporations for all affiliate programs from now on.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163307].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author HigherPrThanGod
        Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

        Here's the REAL problem ...

        CA legislator's don't get paid until there is a budget deal. The new deal just announced anticipates $200 Million in revenue from the Amazon tax.

        But if Amazon pulls out, there is no $200M, and no balanced budged.

        Maybe instead of posting here this logic should be sent to the CA state controller telling him to keep withholding their pay. A huge hole just got shot into the budget.

        .
        ROFL..

        I'm not saying anything else, because IT WOULD BE POLITICAL.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165199].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Christi
          Hi guys,

          Newby here based in CA. Hubby and I own an affiliate website which we launched just over two months ago.

          So far we have received termination notices from the following affiliate stores:

          -Amazon
          -6pm
          -Endless.com (owned by Amazon)
          -Overstock
          -Cabela's
          -Total Gym

          We're expecting to be inundated with termination notices in the next few days. To the extent where, if we get too many termination notices, we will have to go out of business before we barely started.

          Good job Governor!
          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165509].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Captain Bert
            Cabellas has a location in CA already, strange that since they charge CA sales tax they would terminate an Affiliate
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4168299].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Paul Koenig
              Wow that's terrible.
              I agree CA will lose out on a lot of revenue.
              People won't shut down their business.
              I wouldn't.


              LLC Registration in NH is only $100.
              I'm in the process of registering my business there.

              Also, NH has is state tax free (except for food products).
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4168367].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author stiznef
        Liberal Jerry Brown is an idiot. Amazon pulled the plug. Now he's got nothing.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4166457].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author jakdwak
          I just got my notice from Amazon. I currently don't make any money from them but I just started adding more of their fantastic Omakase ads on a few of my sites. I was already planning to get an address in Vegas as my internet income rose to some higher level so now that level has moved a lot lower.

          Just found this with some quick research:

          $10 Mailbox Rentals, Mail Forwarding, FREE Resident Agent, Notary - Las Vegas NV

          So for ten bucks a month I can get a Vegas address and I assume I can use my existing Ally bank account or just use Paypal as a go between? I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. It's so sad how this state is being run into the ground. I could write an essay on the causes.

          You can't totally blame the politicians, they were elected. We'll see what happens next election.

          Future Nevada resident,

          Cheers!
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4166647].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author WhosGotMoves
            Originally Posted by jakdwak View Post

            I just got my notice from Amazon. I currently don't make any money from them but I just started adding more of their fantastic Omakase ads on a few of my sites. I was already planning to get an address in Vegas as my internet income rose to some higher level so now that level has moved a lot lower.

            Just found this with some quick research:

            $10 Mailbox Rentals, Mail Forwarding, FREE Resident Agent, Notary - Las Vegas NV

            So for ten bucks a month I can get a Vegas address and I assume I can use my existing Ally bank account or just use Paypal as a go between? I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. It's so sad how this state is being run into the ground. I could write an essay on the causes.

            You can't totally blame the politicians, they were elected. We'll see what happens next election.

            Future Nevada resident,

            Cheers!
            So jakdwak for $10 a month we can set up a NV address in amazon and hopefully beat this silly technicality? From what I'm reading this is a great find especially for those just starting out with Amazon. I would hate to lose all the time and effort I've spent building my Amazon sites.

            Here's something interesting for us CA's.. $99 LLC filing and mail fwding. What do you think?

            http://www.freeregisteredagent.com/n...FQtggwodXBLCYA
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4168458].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author zapseo
              Back in 2005 LegalZoom informed me that it's a BAD IDEA ... a VERY VERY BAD IDEA -- for a California resident to form a corporation in another state if you cannot show that you are substantially doing business in that state.

              Put another way ... if CA finds out you are a resident conducting most of your business (whatever that may mean, obviously subject to a politician's interpretation -- which won't be in your favor, guaranteed) in California -- and the corp is registered in another state -- CA may decide to have you, your business and your income for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

              There are, undoubtedly, ways around some of these issues. However, simply forming an LLC in another state without due diligence could leave you in a nasty position. Consult your attorneys and your CPAs for further advice.

              (And DON'T take legal or accounting advice off of unlicensed professionals on the WF. There's nothing new in the advice in the previous sentence -- we've been saying that for years here on the WF.)

              Live JoyFully!

              Judy

              Originally Posted by WhosGotMoves View Post

              So jakdwak for $10 a month we can set up a NV address in amazon and hopefully beat this silly technicality? From what I'm reading this is a great find especially for those just starting out with Amazon. I would hate to lose all the time and effort I've spent building my Amazon sites.

              Here's something interesting for us CA's.. $99 LLC filing and mail fwding. What do you think?

              Free Registered Agent - $99 Nevada Corporation/LLC Special Offer
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4168735].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
                Originally Posted by zapseo View Post

                Back in 2005 LegalZoom informed me that it's a BAD IDEA ... a VERY VERY BAD IDEA -- for a California resident to form a corporation in another state if you cannot show that you are substantially doing business in that state.

                Put another way ... if CA finds out you are a resident conducting most of your business (whatever that may mean, obviously subject to a politician's interpretation -- which won't be in your favor, guaranteed) in California -- and the corp is registered in another state -- CA may decide to have you, your business and your income for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
                Judy, that's important if you are trying to avoid paying CA income taxes. At some point, if you are in CA and especially if the revenue is transferred to CA for your personal use, then the state will claim CA income taxes are owed.

                It is similar to the many billions big corps are holding on offshore accounts. When the money comes ashore it is taxed.

                But very different from the question of whether you can get an Amazon account using an out-of-state corp. If you're paying CA income taxes it shouldn't be an issue for you. I have yet to hear of Amazon conducting a big investigation, asking for ownership details, bank accounts, contracts, money transfers, etc., to make a "legal determination" of whether you are sufficiently in a state eligible for their affiliate program.

                .
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4169206].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author dunkinbbb
                  Kindsvater:

                  So I live in CA full time. I form a NV corp and NV bank account for Amazon transfers. Since I am physically still in CA and therefore CA has said sales taxes are due it, am I not an accomplice - and liable - if Amazon does not collect sales taxes since it believes this is occuring in NV. I guess what I am really asking - does my physical location matter re:sales taxes?

                  Thanks for sharing your expertise.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4169315].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author jakdwak
              Originally Posted by WhosGotMoves View Post

              So jakdwak for $10 a month we can set up a NV address in amazon and hopefully beat this silly technicality? From what I'm reading this is a great find especially for those just starting out with Amazon. I would hate to lose all the time and effort I've spent building my Amazon sites.

              Here's something interesting for us CA's.. $99 LLC filing and mail fwding. What do you think?


              Free Registered Agent - $99 Nevada Corporation/LLC Special Offer



              Wow, good find. I think from what I'm reading here you'd also need an IP address in Nevada or outside of California. This is off the top of my head, what if you use G
              oogle mail and all your sites are In Texas, like at Hostgator? How is Amazon or the state going to know the difference when it comes to orders being placed through your site?
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170426].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author whynes
                Originally Posted by EvolBaby View Post

                Whynes, I'd not been aware of the other affiliate programs that just dropped the hammer on their members.
                See below, or: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ifornia-2.html


                Originally Posted by Christi View Post

                Hi guys,

                Newby here based in CA. Hubby and I own an affiliate website which we launched just over two months ago.

                So far we have received termination notices from the following affiliate stores:

                -Amazon
                -6pm
                -Endless.com (owned by Amazon)
                -Overstock
                -Cabela's
                -Total Gym

                We're expecting to be inundated with termination notices in the next few days. To the extent where, if we get too many termination notices, we will have to go out of business before we barely started.

                Good job Governor!

                Originally Posted by Page-One View Post

                Luke, you too are wrong. Yes, Nevada too is likely soon to pass an Amazon tax, after which Amazon will shut down the affiliate program here. But no, Nevada is one of a handful of states that levy NO state income tax. I've lived and worked here for many years, and never paid a dime of state income tax. There isn't even a bureaucracy or paperwork to support it.
                Thanks Page-One. That's an important bit of first-hand info for some of us trying to figure out
                options. Much appreciated.
                Signature

                Wayne

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170442].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author rom173
              Originally Posted by WhosGotMoves View Post

              So jakdwak for $10 a month we can set up a NV address in amazon and hopefully beat this silly technicality? From what I'm reading this is a great find especially for those just starting out with Amazon. I would hate to lose all the time and effort I've spent building my Amazon sites.

              Here's something interesting for us CA's.. $99 LLC filing and mail fwding. What do you think?

              Free Registered Agent - $99 Nevada Corporation/LLC Special Offer

              I ordered this earlier today http://www.maillinkplus.com/index.php after I received notice. Just be aware that you have to fill out usps 1583 form and may have to have it notarized, then sent back to them. I have the new address, but am skeptical about using it for Amazon just yet. I'm still considering applying for a nevada LLC after reading this thread. LLC's seem like the better way to go. I can't afford to make a mistake as I was making really good money with Amazon....till today =(

              Edit: After reading all of Page-One's posts, LLC's don't even look good. God Help us All! Lets get rid of these politicians who have no value, create no jobs, and think that taxing the already struggling is the answer. And I don't want to hear another word from these guys about making us more competitive with China. In doing so we will have to earn much less than we are now, in order for companies to move manufacturing jobs back to the US.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171331].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Sonomacats
            Originally Posted by jakdwak View Post

            I just got my notice from Amazon. I currently don't make any money from them but I just started adding more of their fantastic Omakase ads on a few of my sites. I was already planning to get an address in Vegas as my internet income rose to some higher level so now that level has moved a lot lower.

            Just found this with some quick research:

            $10 Mailbox Rentals, Mail Forwarding, FREE Resident Agent, Notary - Las Vegas NV

            So for ten bucks a month I can get a Vegas address
            I was just going to let everyone know about this place. There are also other ones in New Mexico and Wyoming where you can get a privacy proof LLC, as well. And if it's true that Nevada is going to go after Amazon, then head for New Mexico.

            Here's the deal for all of you California (and other affiliates that Amazon dumped).

            You do not have to change your ISP or your bank account. Just because your original bank account is in California (for example), does not mean you live there. You can move across the country and still keep the bank account you opened in California.

            Get the Las Vegas address and then act as if you live there - especially if you don't work for an outside employer.

            Change your Amazon address. They only go by what's in your profile. If they send you mail, Maillink will forward the mail to wherever you happened to be.

            Full time RVers use this kind of service all the time. So all you have to do is pretend you're a full time RVer operating out of Las Vegas.

            While I'm planning on ditching California shortly, until then, I'm acting as if I've already moved. My bank sends me everything online so I don't have to worry about them. And any mail I want goes to Las Vegas and they forward it to me whenever I want.

            Don't let the government in your state screw you over. They don't get that taxing Amazon (and other online companies) just because they have affiliates in that state will just cut the revenues and hurt small businesses - which is what affiliates are.

            Don't take it lying down. If you're not ready to leave California yet, just act as if you have. Take your address to another state. New Mexico and Wyoming are also still good. So is Oregon.

            Even better, you get to keep your income in those states because the state isn't dipping in your pocket.
            Signature

            Writing as Kieran McKendrick
            You can find the first prequel to my Purgatory series (How Blended are Dust and Fire) on Amazon and Smashwords.

            Whether you think you can or think you cannot, you are right. -- Henry Ford

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170362].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Page-One
              Originally Posted by Sonomacats View Post

              Full time RVers use this kind of service all the time. So all you have to do is pretend you're a full time RVer operating out of Las Vegas.

              While I'm planning on ditching California shortly, until then, I'm acting as if I've already moved. My bank sends me everything online so I don't have to worry about them. And any mail I want goes to Las Vegas and they forward it to me whenever I want.
              So you think this is going to work really well for you when Amazon shuts off its affiliate program here? And it WILL be doing so, as soon as the Amazon tax bill moving through the state legislature passes. Please, you Californians, don't just jump out of the frying pan into the fire...do your homework and realize that Nevada is highly likely to have no Amazon affiliate program soon. Don't believe it? Try Googling "nevada amazon tax" and read up.
              Signature
              Expert Editing and Writing:
              Web Posts, Articles, E-Books, WSOs, Books
              (NEW! Kindle File Editing, Upload Help, Cover Creation [no PLR/Public Domain]
              _________________
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170399].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author jakdwak
                Originally Posted by Page-One View Post

                So you think this is going to work really well for you when Amazon shuts off its affiliate program here? And it WILL be doing so, as soon as the Amazon tax bill moving through the state legislature passes. Please, you Californians, don't just jump out of the frying pan into the fire...do your homework and realize that Nevada is highly likely to have no Amazon affiliate program soon. Don't believe it? Try Googling "nevada amazon tax" and read up.
                So I guess eventually the Seychelles, Panama and any other tax free countries are going to be getting a lot of mail forwarding business?
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170446].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author jakdwak
          Sad that the voters didn't vote Meg Whitman, CEO of Ebay, into office. What a different future Cali would have. Sad.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4166658].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
            as I posted in another similar thread:

            a) Amazon doesn't need you. This is a windfall for all non-USA affiliate webmasters (eg Canada, the UK, India, Australia, wherever).

            Affiliate sales are what percentage of Amazon's total revenue mix, anyways? When was the last time You bought something from some amazon affiliates' link? I never have. I type amazon.com in my browser to buy stuff. Amazon USA vs non-USA affiliate sales revenue are what percentages for them? I don't think they need USA-based affiliates as much as you may think. Building your business on the back of someone elses, as an affiliate of theirs, is very risky anyways.

            b) Most other states will almost certainly follow suit, and leave it to our big government to come in with some Federal tax mandate even if the states don't all start taxing online sales, which they will anyways.

            The handwriting's on the wall. While I won't say 'affiliate marketing is dead', quite yet, lol -- what do You think our cash-strapped states and federal government will do in the months and years ahead? Tax all internet sales, of course. It's on the way.

            As someone who has been online fulltime since the late 90s, I can reiterate that it's important to create your own products, brand and value-add out there, not just sell other people's stuff for a living. For a lot of reasons.

            too bad, as I had gotten amazon affiliate-based sites up and running for my wife to get her start in IM via fitness video reviews/aff links, and it was a good start.. but since we're in a newly taxed state we had to scrap that. I certainly see the appeal of amazon's affiliate program, it's great. But since the tax issue came up, we're also shut out of participating.

            -k
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4167357].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author JustVisiting
              Originally Posted by kencalhn View Post

              Affiliate sales are what percentage of Amazon's total revenue mix, anyways? When was the last time You bought something from some amazon affiliates' link?

              Sales by Associates are about 40% of Amazon sales.

              That's if you believe this Wikipedia reference.

              http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...P6M0sg&cad=rja

              Some Warriors make 5 figure incomes each month as Amazon Associates.

              If any of these live in California I reckon they will be flipping their sites for a pretty penny or moving to another state.

              Cheers

              Paul
              Signature
              "...If at first you don't succeed; call it Version 1.0"
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4167518].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author myob
                [DELETED]
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4167762].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author David McKee
                  Originally Posted by myob View Post

                  Many California Amazon affiliates are making 6 figure incomes each month. And we are not all flipping out or moving. A simple solution is just to form an LLC in Deleware, Nevada, or any number of other non-nexus states. :rolleyes:
                  Not a viable solution for a new affiliate just starting out necessarily, however what is the cost of forming an LLC in such a state with all of the safeguards necessary to running an affiliate company this way? Does Amazon have any issues with this? How about the IRS?

                  Just asking, because I would hate to set all that up and end up in real trouble!

                  -DTM
                  Signature
                  Are you an affiliate marketer? My site has tons of free stuff and 14,000 pages of Clickbank research. www.affiliatesledgehammer.com
                  Buy a Freedom Bulb! Don't let the government tell you what kind of light bulb you can use!
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4167941].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author whynes
                    Originally Posted by David McKee View Post

                    Not a viable solution for a new affiliate just starting out necessarily, however what is the cost of forming an LLC in such a state with all of the safeguards necessary to running an affiliate company this way? Does Amazon have any issues with this? How about the IRS?

                    Just asking, because I would hate to set all that up and end up in real trouble!

                    -DTM
                    I'm looking into it. First pass I found one to do it for approx
                    $500; including the Nev state fee. Haven't compared different
                    offerings yet.

                    Google: form llc in nevada

                    you'll get lots of hits.

                    Originally Posted by amanijl View Post

                    How many states has this happened in? Any word that it'll be coming to Wisconsin as well???
                    Residents of California, Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, North Carolina, Rhode Island, and counting.

                    Thank God we don't get all the government we pay for.
                    Signature

                    Wayne

                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4168055].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author SteveDolan
                      Originally Posted by whynes View Post

                      I'm looking into it. First pass I found one to do it for approx
                      $500; including the Nev state fee. Haven't compared different
                      offerings yet.

                      Google: form llc in nevada

                      you'll get lots of hits.



                      Residents of California, Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, North Carolina, Rhode Island, and counting.

                      Thank God we don't get all the government we pay for.
                      For each out of state LLC you form you will be required to pay CA $800 per year to the state board of equalization.

                      And the nexus tax laws is for all affiliate programs (where the company grosses over 10k per year - basically all of them) not just Amazon. Given the complexity of the laws, the internet and what forms a nexus even Adwords/Adsense may not be exempt.

                      Interesting article here:

                      Amazon Drops California In Growing E-Commerce Affiliate Tax Law War | ZDNet
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4168824].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Sid Kaplan
                        I find it interesting that the big box retailers (specifically Wal-Mart) whine and complain of unfair advantage (Amazon) to get these laws passed when all along their buying practices off shore and pricing practices cost untold numbers of jobs in America.:confused:

                        But then again I would make a poor politician
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4168887].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author SeoVancouverWa
                        One point and a couple of questions:

                        I think some of you are missing the point on potential Amazon income, especially around the holidays, more specifically the Christmas season. Income can be AMAZING with Amazon.

                        So for those of you not making much with Amazon...you need to understand that many ARE...and the incomes might shock you.

                        Now for the question...why would Amazon NOT decide to just collect the sales tax and pass it on to the state? How does that hurt Amazon. They do not get to keep the sales tax. They would be competing with offline retailers that also have to charges sales tax.

                        So I am a bit confused about this. So what if they have to collect sales tax! That tax is NOT on Amazon...it is on the consumer buying the product. Can someone explain this better!!
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4168938].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
                          Originally Posted by SeoVancouverWa View Post

                          Now for the question...why would Amazon NOT decide to just collect the sales tax and pass it on to the state? How does that hurt Amazon. They do not get to keep the sales tax. They would be competing with offline retailers that also have to charges sales tax.

                          So I am a bit confused about this. So what if they have to collect sales tax! That tax is NOT on Amazon...it is on the consumer buying the product. Can someone explain this better!!
                          Jack has a shoe store in San Francisco selling Nike shoes for $100. The total price paid by a customer is about $109 after including sales taxes. Jack remits the $9 sales tax to the CA Board of Equalization.

                          Amazon sells the same Nike shoes for $100. The total price paid by the customer is $100 because no sales taxes are owed.

                          The customer saves $9 by using Amazon and is happy.
                          Amazon is happy because it made a sale.
                          Jack is not happy because he lost a sale because he charges sales tax.
                          California is not happy because it did not collect $9.

                          .
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4169243].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author Steve Faber
                            Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

                            Jack has a shoe store in San Francisco selling Nike shoes for $100. The total price paid by a customer is about $109 after including sales taxes. Jack remits the $9 sales tax to the CA Board of Equalization.

                            Amazon sells the same Nike shoes for $100. The total price paid by the customer is $100 because no sales taxes are owed.

                            The customer saves $9 by using Amazon and is happy.
                            Amazon is happy because it made a sale.
                            Jack is not happy because he lost a sale because he charges sales tax.
                            California is not happy because it did not collect $9.

                            .
                            Jill lives in California and owns an online business that uses the Amazon associates program to generate revenue. She sells a pair of Nike shoes on Amazon through her site. She makes the 6% Amazon commission and the $6 in revenue goes to her business's bottom line. She pays income taxes on the $6 and spends the money in California.

                            Govorner Brown signs the law. Now Jill sells nothing through Amazon, she generates no business revenue, and pays no business or personal taxes on it. In addition, that money is not spent in the state to help the California economy.

                            Typical!
                            Signature
                            For Killer Marketing Tips that Will Grow Your Business Follow Me on Twitter Now
                            After all, you're probably following a few hundred people already that aren't doing squat for you.....
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4169392].message }}
                            • Profile picture of the author remodeler
                              Originally Posted by Steve Faber View Post

                              Jill lives in California and owns an online business that uses the Amazon associates program to generate revenue. She sells a pair of Nike shoes on Amazon through her site. She makes the 6% Amazon commission and the $6 in revenue goes to her business's bottom line. She pays income taxes on the $6 and spends the money in California.

                              Govorner Brown signs the law. Now Jill sells nothing through Amazon, she generates no business revenue, and pays no business or personal taxes on it. In addition, that money is not spent in the state to help the California economy.

                              Typical!
                              And in addition, because Jill's Amazon income was her livelihood and now it is gone, she may be applying for state aid. So now is she not only making an income and paying in CA tax revenue... but Jill is now drawing state aid and further costing the state more dollars. Yea, that makes really good sense.
                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170921].message }}
                            • Profile picture of the author SeoVancouverWa
                              Originally Posted by Steve Faber View Post

                              Jill lives in California and owns an online business that uses the Amazon associates program to generate revenue. She sells a pair of Nike shoes on Amazon through her site. She makes the 6% Amazon commission and the $6 in revenue goes to her business's bottom line. She pays income taxes on the $6 and spends the money in California.

                              Govorner Brown signs the law. Now Jill sells nothing through Amazon, she generates no business revenue, and pays no business or personal taxes on it. In addition, that money is not spent in the state to help the California economy.

                              Typical!
                              Listen I am an Amazon affiliate (in the GREAT State of Washington) but Amazon is wrong here. All they have to do is charge the tax, the same thing that any store in California has to do!

                              They do not want to do that because they think it will hurt their sales. They cannot save the customer of California $9. But they should NOT have that advantage over stores in California.

                              NONE of you that own a shoe store in California, that MUST charge that tax, would be happy knowing that a major competitor of yours DOESN'T have to charge the tax. Do you really think that is a fair or even close to fair? Of course not!

                              The real a-hole here is Amazon! All they have to do is do what EVERY other retailer in California has to do....CHARGE the tax, pay the collected tax to California, collect their profits and move onto the next sale. But they do not want to do that.

                              Now who do you think the REAL bad guy is? While Gov. Brown might not have looked at how stubborn Amazon is...he did the right thing. How can you allow a "store" to openly sell products in your state and NOT charge tax when EVERY other store in the state has to?

                              Come on people...think about it. You need to get on Amazon's A$$.
                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171133].message }}
                              • Profile picture of the author Sonomacats
                                Originally Posted by SeoVancouverWa View Post

                                Come on people...think about it. You need to get on Amazon's A$$.
                                That's all very well and good, but what are we supposed to do for income in the mean time?

                                At least "moving" to a different state speaks a heck of a lot louder than a letter or phone call will do. And you get to keep your income until things get worked out.

                                I'm all for a national, across the board, sales tax so that it's fair for everyone.

                                But I'm not into ditching my income and going back to a JOB until things get fixed. Not to mention losing all the time, energy, and money I've spent getting to this point.

                                From now on, I am no longer a California resident. At least according to the address I have on file with Amazon and my affiliate networks.

                                And I'm willing to bet that a lot of people and companies are going to ditch California for real after this. Voting with your feet (whether real or literal) sends a strong message.

                                It would have been a lot smarter if the California had lobbied for a national sales tax instead of penalizing thousands of small businesses for working hard.
                                Signature

                                Writing as Kieran McKendrick
                                You can find the first prequel to my Purgatory series (How Blended are Dust and Fire) on Amazon and Smashwords.

                                Whether you think you can or think you cannot, you are right. -- Henry Ford

                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171202].message }}
                              • Profile picture of the author Daniel Brock
                                Originally Posted by SeoVancouverWa View Post

                                Listen I am an Amazon affiliate (in the GREAT State of Washington) but Amazon is wrong here. All they have to do is charge the tax, the same thing that any store in California has to do!

                                They do not want to do that because they think it will hurt their sales. They cannot save the customer of California $9. But they should NOT have that advantage over stores in California.

                                NONE of you that own a shoe store in California, that MUST charge that tax, would be happy knowing that a major competitor of yours DOESN'T have to charge the tax. Do you really think that is a fair or even close to fair? Of course not!

                                The real a-hole here is Amazon! All they have to do is do what EVERY other retailer in California has to do....CHARGE the tax, pay the collected tax to California, collect their profits and move onto the next sale. But they do not want to do that.

                                Now who do you think the REAL bad guy is? While Gov. Brown might not have looked at how stubborn Amazon is...he did the right thing. How can you allow a "store" to openly sell products in your state and NOT charge tax when EVERY other store in the state has to?

                                Come on people...think about it. You need to get on Amazon's A$$.
                                Shipping ain't free buddy.

                                They are forced to sell products at the same price as local stores, but they now also have to eat a shipping cost which will of course be passed on to the customer.

                                It'll be more expensive to shop online than locally, AND you'll have to wait a few days for the product to arrive.
                                Signature
                                Clickbank #1 Best Seller: The Deadbeat Super Affiliate.
                                Click here to learn how to make money online in your bath robe and gym socks!
                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171206].message }}
                                • Profile picture of the author Daniel Brock
                                  I hate to break it to everyone but it's only a matter of time before the US govey eliminates most online business opportunities.

                                  They want people locked into their grid with no way of breaking out, and this "online thing" is one of the few remaining opportunities to do just that.

                                  Soon visa/mastercard/paypal will start cracking down. Email providers will follow.

                                  And these absurd tax laws lead the way.
                                  Signature
                                  Clickbank #1 Best Seller: The Deadbeat Super Affiliate.
                                  Click here to learn how to make money online in your bath robe and gym socks!
                                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171216].message }}
                                  • Profile picture of the author Page-One
                                    Originally Posted by Daniel Brock View Post

                                    I hate to break it to everyone but it's only a matter of time before the US govey eliminates most online business opportunities.

                                    They want people locked into their grid with no way of breaking out, and this "online thing" is one of the few remaining opportunities to do just that.

                                    Soon visa/mastercard/paypal will start cracking down. Email providers will follow.

                                    And these absurd tax laws lead the way.
                                    As a major Amazon guy, Dan, you aren't sounding very optimistic...and maybe you're not. But if you have any thoughts on Amazon alternatives, I for one would be interested. Clickbank? CPA? Adsense? Other retailer affiliates? Online/Offline? Facebook? Kindle ebooks?

                                    Remove Amazon from the picture, and I.M. options aren't gone, but it does leave a big hole!
                                    Signature
                                    Expert Editing and Writing:
                                    Web Posts, Articles, E-Books, WSOs, Books
                                    (NEW! Kindle File Editing, Upload Help, Cover Creation [no PLR/Public Domain]
                                    _________________
                                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171400].message }}
                                    • Profile picture of the author Chris Sorrell
                                      Originally Posted by Page-One View Post

                                      As a major Amazon guy, Dan, you aren't sounding very optimistic...and maybe you're not. But if you have any thoughts on Amazon alternatives, I for one would be interested. Clickbank? CPA? Adsense? Other retailer affiliates? Online/Offline? Facebook? Kindle ebooks?

                                      Remove Amazon from the picture, and I.M. options aren't gone, but it does leave a big hole!
                                      You can just use the Amazon functionality inbuilt into squidoo lenses to bypass it all and continue promoting Amazon products till your heart's content. By doing that you'll get paid through Squidoo directly into your paypal account.

                                      The whole setup is easier in general than playing about with wp sites and the like, and of course, no worries over certain states passing those ludicrous laws.
                                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171512].message }}
                                      • Profile picture of the author txdalgal
                                        Originally Posted by Chris Sorrell View Post

                                        You can just use the Amazon functionality inbuilt into squidoo lenses to bypass it all and continue promoting Amazon products till your heart's content. By doing that you'll get paid through Squidoo directly into your paypal account.

                                        The whole setup is easier in general than playing about with wp sites and the like, and of course, no worries over certain states passing those ludicrous laws.
                                        Don't you still need your Amazon affiliate code in your product link even in Squidoo?
                                        Signature
                                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171773].message }}
                                        • Profile picture of the author Chris Sorrell
                                          Originally Posted by txdalgal View Post

                                          Don't you still need your Amazon affiliate code in your product link even in Squidoo?
                                          Nope, just get the amazon ASIN, copy it into the amazon module and you're good to go. You then just get paid every month into your paypal account by squidoo. No amazon associates account needed.
                                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4173605].message }}
                                          • Profile picture of the author dunkinbbb
                                            Originally Posted by Chris Sorrell View Post

                                            Nope, just get the amazon ASIN, copy it into the amazon module and you're good to go. You then just get paid every month into your paypal account by squidoo. No amazon associates account needed.
                                            Hi Chris:

                                            New at this and in CA.

                                            Could you say ,ore about how this might work in practice? Any downsides?
                                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4174561].message }}
                                  • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
                                    Well this thread as gone to political hell. Now it will probably be zapped since it violates the no political/religious discussions which are very annoying indeed. How hard is it to keep on topic without getting nauseating political?
                                    Signature
                                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4172655].message }}
                              • Profile picture of the author newimguy
                                Originally Posted by SeoVancouverWa View Post

                                Listen I am an Amazon affiliate (in the GREAT State of Washington) but Amazon is wrong here. All they have to do is charge the tax, the same thing that any store in California has to do!

                                They do not want to do that because they think it will hurt their sales. They cannot save the customer of California $9. But they should NOT have that advantage over stores in California.

                                NONE of you that own a shoe store in California, that MUST charge that tax, would be happy knowing that a major competitor of yours DOESN'T have to charge the tax. Do you really think that is a fair or even close to fair? Of course not!

                                The real a-hole here is Amazon! All they have to do is do what EVERY other retailer in California has to do....CHARGE the tax, pay the collected tax to California, collect their profits and move onto the next sale. But they do not want to do that.

                                Now who do you think the REAL bad guy is? While Gov. Brown might not have looked at how stubborn Amazon is...he did the right thing. How can you allow a "store" to openly sell products in your state and NOT charge tax when EVERY other store in the state has to?

                                Come on people...think about it. You need to get on Amazon's A$$.
                                I think this argument that Amazon is getting a price advantage is all balooney. Wal Mart, Target, Home Depot have an advantage over Amazon. You can pick it up at the store right away and you get to see the product. If you think Amazon has to collect tax, then to make it "equal" we should have to wait a week before we can pick up an item in the store.

                                Amazon is doing everything right according to the law. Whether you think its fair or not: The 1992 Supreme courts's decision held that mail-order merchants do not need to collect sales taxes for sales into states where they don't have a physical presence. If it's not fair then this decision needs to be overturned at a federal level not a state level.

                                Politiians who can't manage their states are trying to find a way to subvert the law by arguing that affiliates are a physical presence.I doubt this will hold up in federal court.
                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171340].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author whynes
                            Originally Posted by Sysbase View Post

                            If I open an LLC in another state and just had my Amazon account closed can I just switch my address information to my new LLC and ask to be included again? Or do I have to start a whole new account with them?
                            I'm just off the phone with amazon (Associate Direct Line: 1-800-372-8066, 7AM-4PM Pacific Time), asking about switching my account from a person in california to an LLC in Nevada.

                            I couldn't really get any more specific confirmation than what was included in the termination letter in terms of a direct answer. It's almost as if she was reading from a script.

                            However, one thing specific was she said I might be required to prove
                            that "I had moved my residence," which was an odd answer to a question about changing my account holder to an LLC.

                            I kept asking the question a different way. Once she replied, "well, you
                            could always open up a different account."

                            While she never exactly said it, I got the distinct impression my current
                            account with them is 'tainted', marked for special treatment, if you get my meaning.

                            I might still go with an out-of-state LLC, but without something firm from Amazon, I'm going to go to whatever lengths I can to make sure there's
                            no association between that LLC and my old account. Not even my
                            domain name.

                            Too bad, too. My bank routing number happens to already show a reno
                            address, but I guess I won't be able to use that on my new LLC account.

                            In any case, since Amazon was my first try at AM, the LLC could come
                            in handy with other AM programs. No way I'm signing up for one with my CA address.

                            Question: Does anyone know how LLC income earned in Nevada, spent by me in California
                            is reported on my state taxes? Is it reported as IM earnings? Or is it reported as a salary
                            draw from a Nevada corporation? Any advice or pointers on this appreciated.
                            Signature

                            Wayne

                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4169411].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author SeoVancouverWa
                            Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

                            Jack has a shoe store in San Francisco selling Nike shoes for $100. The total price paid by a customer is about $109 after including sales taxes. Jack remits the $9 sales tax to the CA Board of Equalization.

                            Amazon sells the same Nike shoes for $100. The total price paid by the customer is $100 because no sales taxes are owed.

                            The customer saves $9 by using Amazon and is happy.
                            Amazon is happy because it made a sale.
                            Jack is not happy because he lost a sale because he charges sales tax.
                            California is not happy because it did not collect $9.

                            .
                            That is EXACTLY what I am talking about. Why wouldn't Amazon just agree to tax this, pay the state of California the tax, and move on? They make the same profit!!! And they have no unfair competitive advantage.

                            Amazon is trying to get EVERYTHING their way! Just charge the tax and pay the sales tax to California! But you know why they will not do that? It is obvious now...because they do not have the monetary advantage over the physical stores in California.

                            So while California might have made a mistake in the end run...Amazon is also at fault here. They simply want to make sales in states that have a sales tax, but they do not want their customers to pay that tax so they have an advantage. That is not fair to any store physically in California!

                            Amazon needs to wake up and stop throwing temper tantrums...they are LOSING more doing this than gaining!!!! Is anyone to tell me that no sales from 10,000 affiliates won't hurt them. All they need to do is charge the tax and turn that tax over to California.

                            Come on Amazon! You say you want to protect your affiliates but you dump them on their A$$es because you don't get everything YOUR way! Shame on you.
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171103].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author GlobalTrader
                          Originally Posted by SeoVancouverWa View Post

                          Now for the question...why would Amazon NOT decide to just collect the sales tax and pass it on to the state? How does that hurt Amazon. They do not get to keep the sales tax. They would be competing with offline retailers that also have to charges sales tax.

                          So I am a bit confused about this. So what if they have to collect sales tax! That tax is NOT on Amazon...it is on the consumer buying the product. Can someone explain this better!!
                          I found the following paragraph in an article I read earlier today and after reading your question I thought it would help answer "why" Amazon is standing up to the politicos:

                          "The U.S. Supreme Court in 1992 ruled that states cannot tax businesses that aren't physically within their boundaries. Such taxes would regulate interstate commerce, which is a federal government prerogative."

                          I also read somewhere several years ago about how there are over 90,000 taxing authorities within the USA - now consider for a moment that if Amazon or other online companies allow the politicos to roll over their businesses, every little podunk taxing authority will see them as the golden goose and will ultimately kill them as the old saying goes.

                          Here in PA we have a state sales tax and Philidelphia has their own sales tax that is on top of PA's, now consider all of the other 50 states and cities and other podunkvilles that decide to get their greedy little hands on Internet sales overall (not just Amazon is as stake here but all of Internet marketing) - can you imagine the nightmare accounting, reporting etc. that could conceivably go along with the collection of each podunk's vision of "fairness" tax.

                          I like how the politicos like to label bills like this with the word "fairness" to gain the favor of the masses but in reality it is the California consumers who ultimately pay the price.
                          Signature

                          GlobalTrader

                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4169341].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author bengirwb
                            "How about the IRS?"

                            The IRS doesn't care if you operate as an individual or a corp. or an llc.

                            The IRS doesn't care if you have a mailing address in another state.

                            The IRS wants you to pay your federal taxes. Your tax return is linked to your SS #, not your address.
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170726].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author Eyetrap
                            Guys, this is not a big deal...it happened to me here in Arkansas.

                            Here is all you need to do (and what I did):

                            1) register a dba in another state ( $15 for me)
                            2) get a physical address in that state (po box does not work, I used my dads house)
                            3) get a bank account in that state


                            No need for an llc guys.

                            All I did was update my information in my amazon and cj.com accounts and I have not had any issues.


                            PS: all the states that shut down amazon affiliates are democraps.
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171012].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author cindyw
                            Ca. is the only state in the US that has the weirdest laws. If you live in CA, you have to file a 800.00 fee to open a Delaware or Nev. corp or LLC. Any other state there is no fee. So...bottom line...crunch the numbers and if Amazon makes enough $$ for you (including Xmas) then go for it. Otherwise, um...move to another state or find another company to be an affiliate for. I can get a corp set up for about 200 bucks...but then the 800.00 will end up being about a grand to set it all up. Is it worth it? hum... This is the only way to do it. Don't mess with the CA. state tax laws. You will end up very broke or in jail!

                            If ebay partner network does this, guess I will move to um....well I hear Hawaii is nice most of the year?

                            Cindy
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4173028].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author sydneypm
                    Originally Posted by David McKee View Post

                    Not a viable solution for a new affiliate just starting out necessarily, however what is the cost of forming an LLC in such a state with all of the safeguards necessary to running an affiliate company this way? Does Amazon have any issues with this? How about the IRS?

                    Just asking, because I would hate to set all that up and end up in real trouble!

                    -DTM
                    Individuals and large businesses alike have been legally forming corporations and LLC's in Nevada and Delaware for decades. The best way is to have an attorney or accountant set it up for you and get a virtual office. The cost may be around $1,000, but this is a normal part of a business set-up fee for those who prefer to do business out-of-state. Also, search online about Nevada and Delaware LLC's and you'll get quite a bit of info.
                    Signature

                    The only true colon cleanse and whole body cleanse info on the net.

                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4168603].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author MatthewNeer
            Originally Posted by jakdwak View Post

            Sad that the voters didn't vote Meg Whitman, CEO of Ebay, into office. What a different future Cali would have. Sad.
            I second that motion. Would have been nice to have some business savvy up there in Sac Town eh?
            Signature
            Three (3) Income Streams DFY
            New FREE Website Builds Your List
            And Earns From 3 Income Streams
            http://ListLeverage.com
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4177351].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author idk007
    gotta get my site up sooner and try to make as much as possible before then =P
    Signature

    blah blah blah

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163027].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BloggingPro
      Originally Posted by idk007 View Post

      gotta get my site up sooner and try to make as much as possible before then =P
      Bad idea. Simply use a different mailing address and have the money dumped into a bank account in another state. It's been working for me for the last year.
      Signature
      You're going to fail. If you're afraid of failure then you do not belong in the Internet Marketing Business. Period.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163032].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author redstanford
        i got the notice as well. what i had planned to do since i 1st got wind of this storm approaching was to find other affiliate programs in my niche (for example: bass pro shops, sports authority, sports chalet) and just re-route all my affiliate links to them. i don't see why this has to kill anyone's business. just adapt and overcome-or go back to working your day job until retirement. i think too many lemmings are taking to the cliffs over this.

        on a side note, is switching your mailing addresses and such even legal and will the IRS be like WTF come tax time?
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163101].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author SteveDolan
          Originally Posted by redstanford View Post

          i got the notice as well. what i had planned to do since i 1st got wind of this storm approaching was to find other affiliate programs in my niche (for example: bass pro shops, sports authority, sports chalet) and just re-route all my affiliate links to them. i don't see why this has to kill anyone's business. just adapt and overcome-or go back to working your day job until retirement. i think too many lemmings are taking to the cliffs over this.
          The Nexus laws don't just affect Amazon - they affect ALL online retailers. So those that choose not to collect the sales tax via their affiliates will just terminate their contracts. So I wouldn't put a lot of effort into moving to other affiliate programs - especially large ones as these will in all likely hood be closing in CA too.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164316].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
        Originally Posted by BloggingPro View Post

        Bad idea. Simply use a different mailing address and have the money dumped into a bank account in another state. It's been working for me for the last year.
        so do you get paid via direct deposit ? cuz if not how are you going to receive your mails from that other state..can it be forwarded back to you..Thx bro.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4195510].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Sonomacats
          Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

          so do you get paid via direct deposit ? cuz if not how are you going to receive your mails from that other state..can it be forwarded back to you..Thx bro.
          You can get paid via direct deposit or by mail. If you opt to get your checks by mail, they will be sent to the address you have on file with Amazon.

          Whether you're using a friend's address or a private mailbox, the mail should be forwarded to you wherever you choose.
          Signature

          Writing as Kieran McKendrick
          You can find the first prequel to my Purgatory series (How Blended are Dust and Fire) on Amazon and Smashwords.

          Whether you think you can or think you cannot, you are right. -- Henry Ford

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4214719].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ladywriter
    Is there any reason to believe this won't eventually happen in ALL states (except Nevada, Delaware, etc.)?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163050].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Candela
      Originally Posted by kstark View Post

      Is there any reason to believe this won't eventually happen in ALL states (except Nevada, Delaware, etc.)?
      I was wondering the same thing,this is another reminder to keep those eggs in various baskets!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4167537].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jamie Charles
    California will be the first, but more and more states will follow to "protect small businesses".
    Signature
    Action! - Action! - Action!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163051].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author gorufus
    Maybe everyone should move to Arizona. We're pretty friendly here.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163102].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author The Lurker
      Make no mistake, this law will pass. Too much big box and lobby money at stake for it not to.

      Originally Posted by gorufus View Post

      Maybe everyone should move to Arizona. We're pretty friendly here.
      Well, except for some of your legislators towards your illegal immigrants...

      (jk - not really)

      ----

      Be careful if you try to just change your address / bank to keep your Associates account and remain in Cali. I used to live in Asia as an American Expat and they cancelled my US account because they noticed (and track) what country (and area of) you login or try to register from. I explained all this over the phone and they still wouldn't reinstate 'em.... sucks!

      You may find yourself having to go through US-based Proxy services located in the state you're supposedly from, whenever logging in or working with their affiliate tools, if you don't want to raise any red flags.

      Good luck Cali residents,

      -TL
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163948].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author loopchange
    incredibly brutal!

    reminds me of the internet poker sites being shut down in April - and the resulting 'job losses'
    Signature
    www.loopchange.com
    21 days to change a habit...21 days to a better you
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163113].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Emoney
      I wonder if you can still make money on the Squidoo widgets on squidoo?

      Or will this shut down that program too?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163229].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author bengirwb
        ". . . is switching your mailing addresses and such even legal and will the IRS be like WTF come tax time?"

        The IRS doesn't care about your mailing address. It just wants you file tax returns, which are tied to you SS #
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163271].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author bengirwb
          OK, I'm confused (this happens a lot lately).

          Amazon sells the Adsense ads.

          Amazon sells my books on the Kindle.

          Yet Amazon wants to shut down the Adsense accounts. Why not the Kindle books, too?

          Glad the Kindle books are OK, but curious about why shut down one, but not the other.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163293].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dave90210
    I just got a letter myself. I feel sorry for people who make substantial money from Amazon who live in California and I'm assuming there's allot.

    I wouldn't suggest anyone put a wrong address or a different state in there Amazon company address profiles. I wouldn't doubt the US Gov or the state of California might prosecute anyone doing so and may result in legal problems if not possible jail time

    Instead of promoting other peoples products build and promote your own that's what I started doing and I've been making allot more sales!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163335].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163339].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
      Originally Posted by BJ Min View Post

      i wonder if clickbank would do this too?
      No. The law only applies to "tangible personal property". The vast majority of ClickBank sales are intangible digital property.

      A company has to sell $500,000 worth of tangible personal property to Californians within a year for the sales tax provisions to apply.

      The target is Amazon and other huge online sellers. Not smaller online merchants.

      .
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163383].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Ray Erdmann
      I wonder what is going to happen to Amazon's overall business WHEN (NOT "IF") all the remaining states want to join in with California, Illinois and whatever other states Amazon has had to pull out of because of Govt. legislation and taxes being paid regarding online purchases, as I'm sure Amazon gets a LOT of their overall income from the 1,000's of affiliates in every state!

      This will definitely be something to keep our eyes on over the coming months!
      Signature

      "Whether you think you can or not...you'll always be 100% right!" |

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163392].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author verneir
      Originally Posted by BJ Min View Post

      i wonder if clickbank would do this too?
      They are one of the only ones I've found (so far) who have said, and thus far carried-through, with NOT pulling the plug on states that are taxing online sales.

      And, in my opinion, it'd be highly, highly stupid for Clickbank to do so (not to say that many large companies haven't made gigantic screw-ups in general). Their business model is not the same as Amazon.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4172437].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    What I don't get is, how does this involve affiliates? Amazon has to collect a sales tax from CA residents now right? So why does that affect affiliates?

    Seems like Amazon is using affiliates as an excuse here. Trying to pressure the State into seeing how much tax revenue they're going to lose and trying to get affiliates to put up a stink for them. Looks like affiliates are caught in the middle as being pawns by Amazon for no good reason. I could be wrong....LOL
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163428].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bengirwb
      "Amazon has to collect a sales tax from CA residents now right? So why does that affect affiliates?"

      I don't think big A collects CA tax because it doesn't have a CA physical presence. But CA affiliates reside in CA.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163452].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        This almost happened in 2009 - and Gov Arnold vetoed it. It's been clear from then that if California imposed this tax, Amazon would pull out of Cali.

        Affiliates in California had more warning about consequences than in any other state where this has happened.

        Form an LLC or Incorporate in another state - or move. That's what those affiliates making real money through Amazon will do. Cali's loss - but you get what you deserve some times.

        Amazon has sent a clear message to states - and the results of imposing these taxes isn't yet apparent in state budgets.

        $0 in sales = $0 in taxes - but the legislators haven't figured that out yet.
        Signature
        Every child needs a pet because every family needs an optimist

        Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world for one dog.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163544].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author dunkinbbb
          Somebody come up with a legal, practical and effective workaround.

          Now that would be a great WSO :-)

          Oh - and please don't tell me it involves Fiverr :-)
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163636].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Now that would be a great WSO :-)
            So if I write out "incorporate your busines or form an LLC in another state" and sell that for $5 - does that make it somehow better advice?

            Probably be a best seller - until someone screamed "I could have gotten that info for free" Gee - ya think?
            Signature
            Every child needs a pet because every family needs an optimist

            Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world for one dog.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163669].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author omurchu
            Originally Posted by dunkinbbb View Post

            Somebody come up with a legal, practical and effective workaround.

            Now that would be a great WSO :-)

            Oh - and please don't tell me it involves Fiverr :-)
            Could you partner with someone outside the US and come to some arrangement re the profits?

            Frank
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4173742].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author sydneypm
      Originally Posted by PPC-Coach View Post

      What I don't get is, how does this involve affiliates? Amazon has to collect a sales tax from CA residents now right? So why does that affect affiliates?

      Seems like Amazon is using affiliates as an excuse here. Trying to pressure the State into seeing how much tax revenue they're going to lose and trying to get affiliates to put up a stink for them. Looks like affiliates are caught in the middle as being pawns by Amazon for no good reason. I could be wrong....LOL
      I believe you are correct about using affiliates as pawns since all they have to do is add the sales tax on products bought through our links. But I don't think money is the only answer; Top brick & mortar retailers including Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy, J.C. Penney, and Sears have formed The Alliance for Main Street Fairness "to push for more stringent tax laws on Internet retailers," so I'm guessing this may mean other affiliate programs may eventually become involved (but I hope not).

      Does anyone know the exact name of the law in question?

      Cindy P.
      Signature

      The only true colon cleanse and whole body cleanse info on the net.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163796].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author dunkinbbb
        I'm pretty sure ( not having read the original bill in legislature) that this applies to all "internet sales" in CA which are done thru entities with a physical presence in the state.

        Its called the "Amazon" bill, since they are the highest profile company affected. Some affiliates - like Walmart - already have their own physical presence in the state so nothing changes for them. Others are in the same boat as Amazon - collect the taxes or risk being liable for them.

        It also seems, like someone said, that Amazon is using the few states that have so far passed legislation as "warning shots" over the bow for the rest of the country.

        I believe Texas cut a deal with Amazon, forestalling this tax for a number of years - in exchange for Amazon building a distribution facility in the state and creating jobs.

        One would think that the CA pols could have been ast least as creative
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163864].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author SteveDolan
        Originally Posted by sydneypm View Post


        Does anyone know the exact name of the law in question?

        Cindy P.
        It's called the 'Nexus Tax' as in a company having a nexus presence in a particular state and then having to collect sales tax.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164340].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163726].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I'm not even an Amazon affiliate and am glad to be getting out of this state soon. I'm thinking this won't be the only way that CA will go after affiliate Online money. If it's green, these dudes can smell it if it's on this side of their border. I would think anyone with any online business of any sort would want to get it off the CA maps.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163860].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author sydneypm
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I'm not even an Amazon affiliate and am glad to be getting out of this state soon. I'm thinking this won't be the only way that CA will go after affiliate Online money. If it's green, these dudes can smell it if it's on this side of their border. I would think anyone with any online business of any sort would want to get it off the CA maps.
      Unfortunately it is not only California looking for your money... it is more a political push from "The Alliance for Main Street Fairness," as stated in a prior thread. We all really should make our statements and views known to our Senators and Congressmen, no matter what political party you think you think is right. For those in CA check this out if you want to speak out the bills are as follows:

      AB 155 written by Assemblyman Charles Calderon and here is the argument against it: California's Board of Equilization would administer AB 155, but states "the board would incur costs to administer this bill." The BOE says the online sales taxes wouldn't raise much revenue either -- particularly if affiliates and out-of-state retailers stop selling in California altogether, causing the loss of the existing sales tax revenue.

      The BOE's position is that the revenue impact is subject to "considerable uncertainty." Changing the definition of a "retailer engaged in business in California may cause a delay of revenues because of anticipated litigation arising from enactment of this provision, and violation of the U.S. commerce clause."

      AB 153, also called the nexus tax, was written by Democratic Assemblywoman Nancy Skinner which gives retailers presence or "nexus" in a state once affiliates of a state are use.


      SB 234 by Dem Sen. Loni Hancock which enacts a "long arm" nexus.
      Same argument applies to all.
      Signature

      The only true colon cleanse and whole body cleanse info on the net.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163975].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author ShayB
        I don't know if this helps, but SC recently passed legislation to give Amazon a break from nexus for the next 5 years:

        Senate OKs compromise to bring online retailer to Midlands - Local / Metro - TheState.com

        I am not a lawyer, yada yada yada....

        Just saying it seems like SC should be free of affiliate termination for at least 5 years.

        (Did I mention I'm not a lawyer?)

        Hope this helps.
        Signature
        "Fate protects fools, little children, and ships called Enterprise." ~Commander Riker
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164060].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author dunkinbbb
        I live in CA, but I'm no lawyer so please feel free to clean up my thinking.

        If one choses to stay in the state, not only is one looking for a way to circumvent Amazon, but also the California State government with respect to collection of sales tax.

        Its hard to see how an out of state mail drop would be effective without exposing one to serious legal reisk.

        If I form a Nevada corporation, but operate out of my home (CA) - easy to detect via my ISP, ip address, and who knows what else - I am the one with a physical presence in CA who is not collecting sales tax - seems like the potential of not only Amazon's wrath, but the government of CA as well.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164078].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author OneManSEO
        Originally Posted by sydneypm View Post

        Unfortunately it is not only California looking for your money... it is more a political push from "The Alliance for Main Street Fairness," as stated in a prior thread. We all really should make our statements and views known to our Senators and Congressmen, no matter what political party you think you think is right. For those in CA check this out if you want to speak out the bills are as follows:

        AB 155 written by Assemblyman Charles Calderon and here is the argument against it: California's Board of Equilization would administer AB 155, but states "the board would incur costs to administer this bill." The BOE says the online sales taxes wouldn't raise much revenue either -- particularly if affiliates and out-of-state retailers stop selling in California altogether, causing the loss of the existing sales tax revenue.

        The BOE's position is that the revenue impact is subject to "considerable uncertainty." Changing the definition of a "retailer engaged in business in California may cause a delay of revenues because of anticipated litigation arising from enactment of this provision, and violation of the U.S. commerce clause."

        AB 153, also called the nexus tax, was written by Democratic Assemblywoman Nancy Skinner which gives retailers presence or "nexus" in a state once affiliates of a state are use.


        SB 234 by Dem Sen. Loni Hancock which enacts a "long arm" nexus.
        Same argument applies to all.
        Okay, so how about the special exception given to Google? In all fairness...
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164267].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Conjur
    I just received my notice from Amazon as well. Nevada corporate registration here I come
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163906].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Ditso
      What drugs are these decision makers on?

      US politicians are deluding themselves if they think they can police the Internet like this.

      Not content with messing around with online poker it's now poking it's nose into this.

      Don't they remember prohibition? Some laws are just unworkable.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4163961].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author davidjames42973
    Yep. I got my termination email around lunch time. Looks like it's the sign of the times...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164196].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author webapex
    Amazon will also have to divest of other California based companies they own.

    I have to believe the threat to affiliates is in part done in hopes of getting 10,000 letters written to the Governor.
    Signature

    “An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field” Niels Bohr

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164208].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Joel
      It's on CNN.com Money now, not much details:
      Amazon drops California associates to avoid sales tax - Jun. 29, 2011
      Signature

      "Without data or facts, you are just another person with an opinion"

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164224].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author jan roos
        I got the email as well and was told that I can stay on as an affiliate on a CPC system which I am not sure I want to do. Maybe I got offered that because I do high volume with them not sure.

        This country is just bleeding more money and jobs out of here that it's truly sad as hell. I am out because these politicians and bankers won't stop at nothing!

        Cheers
        Signature

        I'll teach you how to make money like a Mamba.

        Sign up for the free money mambas newsletter!

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165295].message }}
        • Originally Posted by jan roos View Post

          I got the email as well and was told that I can stay on as an affiliate on a CPC system which I am not sure I want to do. Maybe I got offered that because I do high volume with them not sure.

          This country is just bleeding more money and jobs out of here that it's truly sad as hell. I am out because these politicians and bankers won't stop at nothing!

          Cheers
          Move back to SA Jan. Your dollars would go a damn long way down here

          Or move to Perth like I'm doing next year
          Hopefully the rest of the world won't have these issues with Amazon.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165617].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author OneManSEO
      Originally Posted by webapex View Post

      Amazon will also have to divest of other California based companies they own.

      I have to believe the threat to affiliates is in part done in hopes of getting 10,000 letters written to the Governor.
      I wrote my nasty letter. He'll never see them. Our elected officials at the state and federal levels are damn near impossible to get past their "handlers" of ego-stroking yes men/women.

      I've been pining to leave the state of my birth for a few years now...just one more ingredient to my Molotov cocktail of emotions. lol I love the wide open spaces of Idaho/Montana anyway...just hate to give up my expensive fiber optic ISP.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164281].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author sydneypm
        Originally Posted by OneManSEO View Post

        I wrote my nasty letter. He'll never see them. Our elected officials at the state and federal levels are damn near impossible to get past their "handlers" of ego-stroking yes men/women.

        I've been pining to leave the state of my birth for a few years now...just one more ingredient to my Molotov cocktail of emotions. lol I love the wide open spaces of Idaho/Montana anyway...just hate to give up my expensive fiber optic ISP.
        I don't believe apathy is the answer... I and a handful of people helped change a law around 3 years ago in California by repeatedly calling and sending emails (no hand-written letters) to Gov. Arnold. One day an assistant from his office called me at home for details and said she was taking detailed notes for the next meeting. Months later, laws had been created and passed in favor of smaller business for what we were fighting for.

        I would urge anyone to not run to another state but stand up for what you feel is right for our type of business in our home state.
        Signature

        The only true colon cleanse and whole body cleanse info on the net.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164393].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author OneManSEO
          Originally Posted by sydneypm View Post

          I don't believe apathy is the answer... I and a handful of people helped change a law around 3 years ago in California by repeatedly calling and sending emails (no hand-written letters) to Gov. Arnold. One day an assistant from his office called me at home for details and said she was taking detailed notes for the next meeting. Months later, laws had been created and passed in favor of smaller business for what we were fighting for.

          I would urge anyone to not run to another state but stand up for what you feel is right for our type of business in our home state.
          I get what you are saying, but this is just one more in a LONG list of grievances I have with those in power in my state. This is the final straw that broke this camel's back.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4167760].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author awinkler
          Originally Posted by sydneypm View Post

          I don't believe apathy is the answer... I and a handful of people helped change a law around 3 years ago in California by repeatedly calling and sending emails (no hand-written letters) to Gov. Arnold. One day an assistant from his office called me at home for details and said she was taking detailed notes for the next meeting. Months later, laws had been created and passed in favor of smaller business for what we were fighting for.

          I would urge anyone to not run to another state but stand up for what you feel is right for our type of business in our home state.
          I my opinion running away doesn't help a lot. Sometimes it is better stand for what you want and if necessary fight for it. It looks like because of not limiting spending in government they will slowly start every where with the same because it is easier to get more and more tax than cutting the spending.

          I'm not talking only for the States that is almost everywhere in every country. It is easy to spend and get more money through tax until the whole country will be against it and pay nothing at all. Than they can fill up their jails with the ones they don't want to pay.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171039].message }}
      • I live in California, Jerry Brown sucks big turds! Now I am totally screwed out of hours and hours of investing and work into Amazon.com and trying to make a few bucks with their program. Guess I will sell of all of my sites!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4169592].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author whynes
          Just off the phone. Called an accountant and asked for pricing in setting up
          a Nevada LLC. I explained why, and he said that won't work. It doesn't matter if I live in California.

          I asked, is that something specific to California? He said, "yes."

          This is starting to suck more and more.

          UPDATE: Above info not very useful. That accountant might have been making
          some incorrect assumptions about why I'm trying to do this.

          Trying others, and will update with more info if I get it.
          Signature

          Wayne

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4169666].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author EvolBaby
            I knew this was coming for years and warned people not to put all their eggs in the Amazon basket.

            Not only Amazon but other companies are either sending out termination letters or not accepting any new affiliates.

            Today I got an email for an offer for an affiliate program I belong to. The person wanted to buy me out of my affiliate stake!

            I noticed it was a company that probably was going around asking other affiliates for their stakes so they could broker them.

            Anyway, California is a penal state. Do good and make a profit and you get penalized. It's all rigged so that you will fail in business if you don't fork over tons of cash and hire the dregs of society who can't or won't get smart.

            Now you have Amazon cutting off tens of thousands of companies in a snap.

            It's turning into a catastrophic situation out here in California. I mean SCARY.

            Here's why, the 20-30 thousand affiliates they just cut off aren't just one man operations. Many of them employ upwards of 10 to 50 other employees if not more. So let's say on average these affiliates had 5 employees each. that's 1.25 million people who've just lost their income. That's an assload of money just lost. Will these people be able to pay their mortgages, rents, health insurance?

            See the situation boiling out here? Companies are uprooting and moving out fast and some are selling off to friends and relatives in other states. The companies that had brick and mortar businesses have to literally pack up and move.

            The umpteen million websites, blogs, message boards, radio programs, podcasts that advertised the affiliate's Amazon products are now useless. Traffic is pouring in but t'ain't nothin' to sell. They either have to redesign all those websites, sell the sites for traffic, or just sell off whatever assets they can.

            I never relied on Amazon or Adsense or anything. Reason being as I've seen big affiliate programs crap out and leave people in misery.

            I'm glad I listened to Paulie 88 here on WF as well as several others and just took one step at a time building up my online biz. If I just boosted prices I could be in that six figure chill out with half the income coming in from auto pilot. Get a cool piece of real estate at rock bottom prices.

            So right now, the Amazon victims have to think on their feet and quick. It's a shame that California and the affiliate programs couldn't resolve their problems with a simple procedure that would have benefitted all. It would have had manufacturers and store owners online and brick and mortar going into discount wars.

            Well the you-know-what has hit the fan and now we'll have to see where it spreads.
            Signature
            Copywriting/Article Writing at $2 per 100 words! Cartoons, Comics, T-Shirt Designs!
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4169766].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author jonnieke
        Local and Global online marketing trends are changing fast. Therefore we need to be as dynamic and watchful. What happened in California could as well happen elsewhere and in a different dimension. Keep watch.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4172314].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author grannydude
        First: What a bummer. I am/was just getting started as an Amazon Affiliate and I now live in California which I have to do. I used to live in Arizona and get pension money from there which I have to pay Arizona state income tax (also have to pay income tax to California and to the Feds for income received in both states). I used to have a bank account in Arizona, actually Bank of America, but the way they go is bank accounts seem to transfer from one state to another. Would anyone know if and how I could use this to sort of work from Arizona? I must say I am very upset by this. Maybe, hopefully, someone in this forum will come up with a workaround. Incidentally how do you set up a "residence account" in Nevada or any other state?

        sad and very very upset
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4182407].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Sonomacats
          Originally Posted by grannydude View Post

          First: What a bummer. I am/was just getting started as an Amazon Affiliate and I now live in California which I have to do. I used to live in Arizona and get pension money from there which I have to pay Arizona state income tax (also have to pay income tax to California and to the Feds for income received in both states). I used to have a bank account in Arizona, actually Bank of America, but the way they go is bank accounts seem to transfer from one state to another. Would anyone know if and how I could use this to sort of work from Arizona? I must say I am very upset by this. Maybe, hopefully, someone in this forum will come up with a workaround. Incidentally how do you set up a "residence account" in Nevada or any other state?

          sad and very very upset
          I don't recommend Nevada right now as it is considering passing the nexus tax and you would have to "move" again if it does.

          However, you could return your residence to Arizona. You're already paying income tax there. Amazon will give you a 1099 in January and it's up to you where you pay your tax.

          If you don't have a friend who has an address in Arizona that you could use, then get a private mailbox from a place like Mail Boxes, Etc. Don't use MBE, however, because they're really expensive. There are plenty of other places that would work for you. All you have to do is go to Google and type in "private mailbox" Arizona, check out a few and then go with the one you like.

          The nice thing about these places is that you get a real street address.

          I believe there is a Postal Annex in Arizona and I know you can sign up with them online.

          Once you have your new address, sign on to your Amazon account and update your information to show your Arizona address. Then click on "Operating Agreement" in the left nav bar.

          At the end of Paragraph 2, you'll find a link to the Contact Associates Customer Service form.

          Send them an eMail letting them know you are an Arizona resident and could they please reinstate you. Shouldn't take more than a day or so.

          They will say something like you might have to prove you live in Arizona, but don't let that put you off. I've never gotten any such request any of the times I've changed my address.

          You can also change your address officially by then getting your Arizona drivers license using the address you're using for Amazon, but only if it makes sense tax-wise. Check out the difference between filing as an Arizona resident and non-resident California return compared to filing as a California resident with a non-resident Arizona return.

          As you already file an income tax return in Arizona, you can put your Amazon earnings on that return.

          Or, you can find another state that doesn't have state income tax (other than Nevada), get a mailing address there, and then not having to deal with it at all.

          Check out the state tax site I mentioned in a previous post to get ideas of where else you might want to have a residence.

          The important thing is to not take this lying down. Don't let it stop you from earning Amazon income.
          Signature

          Writing as Kieran McKendrick
          You can find the first prequel to my Purgatory series (How Blended are Dust and Fire) on Amazon and Smashwords.

          Whether you think you can or think you cannot, you are right. -- Henry Ford

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4182634].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author grannydude
            Originally Posted by Sonomacats View Post

            I don't recommend Nevada right now as it is considering passing the nexus tax and you would have to "move" again if it does.

            However, you could return your residence to Arizona. You're already paying income tax there. Amazon will give you a 1099 in January and it's up to you where you pay your tax.

            If you don't have a friend who has an address in Arizona that you could use, then get a private mailbox from a place like Mail Boxes, Etc. Don't use MBE, however, because they're really expensive. There are plenty of other places that would work for you. All you have to do is go to Google and type in "private mailbox" Arizona, check out a few and then go with the one you like.

            The nice thing about these places is that you get a real street address.

            I believe there is a Postal Annex in Arizona and I know you can sign up with them online.

            Once you have your new address, sign on to your Amazon account and update your information to show your Arizona address. Then click on "Operating Agreement" in the left nav bar.

            At the end of Paragraph 2, you'll find a link to the Contact Associates Customer Service form.

            Send them an eMail letting them know you are an Arizona resident and could they please reinstate you. Shouldn't take more than a day or so.

            They will say something like you might have to prove you live in Arizona, but don't let that put you off. I've never gotten any such request any of the times I've changed my address.

            You can also change your address officially by then getting your Arizona drivers license using the address you're using for Amazon, but only if it makes sense tax-wise. Check out the difference between filing as an Arizona resident and non-resident California return compared to filing as a California resident with a non-resident Arizona return.

            As you already file an income tax return in Arizona, you can put your Amazon earnings on that return.

            Or, you can find another state that doesn't have state income tax (other than Nevada), get a mailing address there, and then not having to deal with it at all.

            Check out the state tax site I mentioned in a previous post to get ideas of where else you might want to have a residence.

            The important thing is to not take this lying down. Don't let it stop you from earning Amazon income.
            Thanks very much, Sonomacat. It is a good idea, but it may be too complicated. I already file taxes as a non-resident in Arizona and a resident in California. This is the way by which I don't get taxed twice for two states. Getting driver's license changed to Arizona would be difficult; as for now, I have banned myself from driving for physical reasons. Thanks for encouragement tho. I think I'll try skimlinks.
            This has been a very interesting and informative. thread. Thanks to everyone for contributing.
            grannydude
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4182916].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Ben Holmes
              Skimlinks might work - but I'm not going to bet on it. (Hint: Go to the site, and click on their 'Contact' link)

              As a Californian, I'm simply going to have to find another solution (But I've applied to Skimlinks on the off chance that they'll be able to work)
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4182930].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author CopyAcolyte
                Originally Posted by Khadaji View Post

                Skimlinks might work - but I'm not going to bet on it. (Hint: Go to the site, and click on their 'Contact' link)

                As a Californian, I'm simply going to have to find another solution (But I've applied to Skimlinks on the off chance that they'll be able to work)
                What makes you doubt Skimlinks?
                Signature

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4182977].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author whynes
                  Originally Posted by CopyAcolyte View Post

                  What makes you doubt Skimlinks?
                  I think he's referring to the office in San Francisco that shows on the
                  contact page.

                  They have an office in London, but that does raise some interesting
                  questions. Assuming they're now going to shut down the SF office,
                  the link hops to London might be painfully slow, going there from
                  here, and hopping back to amazon, before they show up on your
                  site.

                  Or possibly--it would probably take a law degree to figure out--they
                  can actually keep the SF office open. If they aren't serving up
                  any ads for Amazon, and they aren't shipping any products, can it
                  be possible they fall through the cracks of the nexus laws? Hmmmm.
                  The nexus laws wouldn't seem to apply to them, so why close it
                  down?

                  You can call our legis-critters in Sacramento a lot of things, but
                  "tech-savy" is probably not one of them.

                  Guess I'll find out pretty soon.
                  Signature

                  Wayne

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4183072].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author whynes
                    I'm sure this is probably old news to you old-time IMers,
                    but this is a real eye-popper for us newbies.

                    If you were planning on seeing a scary movie tonight, I think
                    I can save you some money. Here's the BOE analysis of the
                    legislation in question:

                    All Legislative Analyses 2011-2012 Session - California State Board of Equalization

                    SUT: Retailers Engaged in Business
                    SUT: Nexus; Out of State Retailers Information Reporting

                    I'll warn you, you'll get a headache if you try to read this
                    stuff. Also, it is just plain frightening.

                    The cute little term "Nexus" really belies the sense of dread
                    you feel when you read it. It should really be nicknamed the
                    EEE laws: Everyone, Everything, Everywhere. My God.
                    It really reads like an all out effort, no holds barred, attempt
                    to turn everyone in the USA into a tax collector for California.
                    Just everyone.

                    Whether all of this made it into the bill that was signed, I don't
                    know. Just the fact that powerful people are having these
                    discussions with grimly serious intent is just frightening.

                    Just for historical perspective, you'll learn that in 1994 they
                    tried to claim a nexus existed for an out-of-state company
                    because they used the US postal service to deliver mail into
                    the state. I knew an attempt to tax mail order outfits
                    failed, but it never occurred to me that any sane person
                    would use that as their argument to try it; E.g., "You
                    are present in this state because you use the post office."

                    Huh?

                    Others have posted that the law is vague and ambiguous.
                    It may well be. But there is nothing vague and ambiguous
                    at all about what they are seriously trying to do. EEE.

                    If this is what's sweeping the nation, we will all be
                    uncompensated tax collectors for 50 different states.

                    Stop worrying about the destruction of the internet,
                    and start worrying about where you're going to find
                    the time to do your federal tax return. You'll long for
                    the days when you only had to do taxes once a year.

                    After reading this (or as much as I could stand for tonight)
                    I'm not holding out much hope for those poor folks that
                    (used to?) work at skimlink's SF office.

                    Read at your own risk. Or more properly, don't read at your
                    own risk. You might want to pop out for a fresh bottle of
                    Advil before you start.
                    Signature

                    Wayne

                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4183401].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Ben Holmes
                    Originally Posted by whynes View Post

                    I think he's referring to the office in San Francisco that shows on the contact page.
                    You guessed it. I'm thinking that I'll find out later this coming week whether it will work or not.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4183531].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author microfac
                    Originally Posted by whynes View Post

                    I think he's referring to the office in San Francisco that shows on the
                    contact page.

                    They have an office in London, but that does raise some interesting
                    questions. Assuming they're now going to shut down the SF office,
                    the link hops to London might be painfully slow, going there from
                    here, and hopping back to amazon, before they show up on your
                    site.

                    Or possibly--it would probably take a law degree to figure out--they
                    can actually keep the SF office open. If they aren't serving up
                    any ads for Amazon, and they aren't shipping any products, can it
                    be possible they fall through the cracks of the nexus laws? Hmmmm.
                    The nexus laws wouldn't seem to apply to them, so why close it
                    down?

                    You can call our legis-critters in Sacramento a lot of things, but
                    "tech-savy" is probably not one of them.

                    Guess I'll find out pretty soon.

                    Got accepted this morning, so apparently the San Francisco office isn't bothering Skimlinks. Also, discovered they have a Wordpress plugin that gets you back in business in seconds without the necessity of changing anything on your site. The plugin makes all the changes to your Amazon links on the fly.

                    From what I understand, if you're getting 6% from Amazon, Skimlinks gets 8%, so since you get 75% from Skimlinks, you're back at your original 6%. If you're now getting 8% from Amazon, then, of course, your down 25%, but 6% is one heck of lot better than nothing, especially when you don't have to do much of anything other than sign up to Skimlinks.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4191848].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author whynes
                      Originally Posted by microfac View Post

                      Got accepted this morning, so apparently the San Francisco office isn't bothering Skimlinks.
                      Indeed, I slept a little later today, but I got the same "welcome
                      back to independence
                      " email from skimlinks too. The irony
                      of today's date, and the source of the email isn't lost on me.

                      It couldn't have been a more painless transition. And the performance
                      problem I feared is not noticeable, if it's there at all.

                      Only thing I can't seem to do is get it to work for my Amazon ads.
                      But hey, it's the deep links into Amazon that matter, right?

                      If I figure out the Amazon ads problem, I'll post back here.

                      Happy 4th of July everyone!

                      P.S. If you're not a US citizen, well . . . um . . . have a very
                      happy 4th of July anyway!
                      Signature

                      Wayne

                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4193361].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Emoney
                  It looks like skimlinks has an office in San Francisco, could be problematic in the very near future.. anyone?
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4193759].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author whynes
                    Originally Posted by Emoney View Post

                    It looks like skimlinks has an office in San Francisco, could be problematic in the very near future.. anyone?
                    Seems not. My uneducated guess is they are incorporated in another state.
                    If not, they would have almost certainly been terminated along with the rest
                    of us. They'd be morons to incorporate in California--they'd be qualified for
                    government office, if that were the case.

                    Serves basically the same purpose as me doing that. Just saves me
                    a couple hundred dollars a month in maintaining an out-of-state
                    office, and the $800 'gotcha' fee per year California would charge
                    me to do so.

                    They don't ship any product, so it would seem California would need
                    to pass yet another unconstitutional law to entrap them. I'm sure we're
                    trying, but it should take another decade or so for us to figure it out.

                    Amazon, by allowing us terminated folks to maintain access to link-building
                    for historical purposes, has made it very easy for us to integrate with
                    SkimLinks.

                    Just connect the dots. It seems Amazon does care about us here in
                    California, even if they can't advertise it. Actions speak louder than
                    words.

                    Not only that, SkimLinks has given me a button for my disclosure
                    page. I never dreamed I could monetize an FTC regulation! Ha ha!
                    Signature

                    Wayne

                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4193884].message }}
      • So what happens if people in california want to buy something from amazon.com?
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4182892].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author OneManSEO
          Originally Posted by unlimitedmarketing View Post

          So what happens if people in california want to buy something from amazon.com?
          Nothing, the buyer is still responsible to report the taxes just like they always have. However, no one ever reports it so CA hates Amazon for "stealing" their sales taxes.

          Except, California has a law that people can't possibly abide by, which should render it unconstitutional. However, I doubt many in Sacramento respect the Constitution anymore than they do us constituents. I've tried to contact my reps at the state and federal level many times over the years - never once have I gotten a response.

          We're just not important.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4186445].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author NetAffiliate
        This make me glad I moved back to Alaska from California.

        We do not even have a sales tax or state income tax here. :p

        The downside...Cost of living is a little high, but nothing like Cali or NY.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4187079].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        California Legislators are waking up this morning to this front page headline splashed across the top of the Sacramento Bee:

        "Tax war hits the little guy"

        with the subhead

        "California Based Affiliates Face Revenue Cut As Amazon Drops Them"

        article here:

        California affiliates hurt by tax bill targeting Amazon.com - Sacramento Business, Housing Market News | Sacramento Bee

        "the law is likely to generate little revenue. Instead ... it will inflict pain in an obscure but crucial corner of cyberspace: the world of affiliated marketers."

        .
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4211967].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author tcraw1010
          [DELETED]
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4214865].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author John Hocking
            This is a real shame.

            They are effectively cutting the income of CA residents and driving away commerce.

            Until such taxes are applied nationwide, they will drive business elsewhere.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4215231].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author antfer
              Originally Posted by John Hocking View Post

              This is a real shame.

              They are effectively cutting the income of CA residents and driving away commerce.

              Until such taxes are applied nationwide, they will drive business elsewhere.
              Well, what I did was change the owner of the account to my trusted relative who lives in the Philippines. But the contact person listed is still me, same account, same affiliate links.

              Amazon reinstated the account in one day.

              Now of course, he has to file taxes there for the checks he will receive there.
              Signature
              Proven Emails That Work - 2,863 Proven, Profit-Producing E-Mails (with subject lines)
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4224217].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author John Hocking
                Originally Posted by antfer View Post

                Well, what I did was change the owner of the account to my trusted relative who lives in the Philippines. But the contact person listed is still me, same account, same affiliate links.

                Amazon reinstated the account in one day.

                Now of course, he has to file taxes there for the checks he will receive there.

                That would be a "Trusted Relative".

                I hope all goes well for you.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4234850].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author akennedy
                  To anyone in the Sacramento region affected by this new tax law:
                  I am writing a story for a local Sacramento magazine about this new "Amazon Tax" and am looking for perspective from local Amazon affiliates/small business owners like you who may be hurting because of it. Would it be possible to connect with you via email so I can get your insights for my story?

                  Thanks,
                  Andrea
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4711787].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author antfer
                    Well now it's official!

                    California affiliates can have their accounts reinstated.

                    Gov. Brown repealed the sales tax law!

                    You should see a message in your Amazon control panel.

                    For more info:

                    Welcome back California Amazon affiliates!

                    :p
                    Signature
                    Proven Emails That Work - 2,863 Proven, Profit-Producing E-Mails (with subject lines)
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4801593].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
                      Originally Posted by antfer View Post

                      Well now it's official!

                      California affiliates can have their accounts reinstated.

                      Gov. Brown repealed the sales tax law!

                      You should see a message in your Amazon control panel.

                      For more info:

                      Welcome back California Amazon affiliates!

                      :p
                      Not sure if they have activated them all yet though?

                      Awesome news!

                      Chris
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4801618].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Sonomacats
                        I suspect it will take a week or two before reinstatement happens.

                        HOWEVER, it looks like this may become an issue again in a year. So my recommendation would be to set up residency in Oregon (no sales tax) or another safe state in the mean time so that if this happens again, at least you won't be blindsided as we were this year and you'll already have a safe address by the time it happens again.

                        Just a reminder, you don't have to live where you have residency. Just look at the full-time RVers and snowbirds. They have residency in a state that works best for taxes and then live all over the place. This is not illegal.

                        It's called civil disobedience and it's a time-honored tradition in this country.

                        If you own your own home in California, set up an LLC in Wyoming and have it own your home. Then "rent" from it while keeping your residency elsewhere.

                        If you rent, then you're all set. Just change your official residency to another state, but continue to live here.

                        Or not.

                        Rents are a lot cheaper in Oregon than they are here and there's a mini Silicon Valley going on in the Portland area if you also want to work a JOB.

                        Now that you have time, put things in place so you won't get screwed when it happens again next year.
                        Signature

                        Writing as Kieran McKendrick
                        You can find the first prequel to my Purgatory series (How Blended are Dust and Fire) on Amazon and Smashwords.

                        Whether you think you can or think you cannot, you are right. -- Henry Ford

                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4801754].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author SoundsGood
                      Originally Posted by antfer View Post

                      Well now it's official!

                      California affiliates can have their accounts reinstated.
                      Is this for forever? Or only for the next year?

                      Or ???
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4801874].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author AnniePot
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164258].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author mooble
      Wait so did they already terminate all the CA affiliates or just warn that if it passes they will?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164600].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author CarinN
        Originally Posted by mooble View Post

        Wait so did they already terminate all the CA affiliates or just warn that if it passes they will?
        Brown officially signed the law today, so unfortunately yes, they have terminated the accounts.

        As a California resident myself I see this as lose lose for not just CA affiliates but California. Now that Amazon terminated our accounts, not only will CA not see the sales tax they thought they would get, they lose the income tax from the affiliates as well.

        No one side to blame though. On one hand Brown thinks he's doing what's right for California and small businesses although he's really hurt us. And on the other Amazon thinks they are doing what's right for their business by sticking to their principles, but at a high price to it's affiliates and obviously their pocket book since they won't be getting the sales from those affiliates anymore.

        Should be interesting to see how many other affiliate programs follow suit as a precautionary measure.

        I guess back to local marketing and working with pain in the butt clients I go.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164700].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author dunkinbbb
          I'm relatively new here - so if this is off topic - just delete.

          I wonder if Amazon actually gets hurt much - if at all - by this.

          I'm of the impression that most Amazon affiliates try to impose themselves (their sites) between Amazon and the buyer - provide some "information" and get a referral fee for whatever the buyer buys if he/she clicks thru.

          If the person coming to the affiliate's site - unless its a high ranking "authority site" did not have a buying intention - they would never have clicked on the affiliate's url to begin with.

          Be interesting to know if Amazon's profit in affected states increases or decreases after the Nexus laws" take effect.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164776].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Marc2008
    Yeah, the great blue state of Maryland is looking at this dumb law now, too. It's ridiculous. Our Governor told our Comptroller to study how much money MD could be losing due to not taxes internet businesses like Amazon. They just dont get it. Nooo, dont cut spending, just find more productive people to tax. They are not going to get the money they want. Amazon will just drop Maryland affiliates and the state will lose income from those productive small business owners/affiliates. They dont care.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164370].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    So after reading a bit about this, the basic jist is that Amazon is throwing affiliates under the bus here just to get them mad and get them to put pressure on the gov't.

    Politics at its best.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164486].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Scott B
    I recently moved from NC (where the legislature just passed the same law) down to SC (where the legislature promised NOT to pass the same law). Amazon has dumped affiliates in several other states (CO, NY, IL) for the same reason. For some reason, government never seems to be able to connect the dots that when they take people's money, those people will leave.

    When a consumer makes an online purchase, the merchant is only required to collect sales tax if the consumer is located in the same state as the merchant. If the consumer is located in a different state (which is the case most of the time), he still owes the tax and is supposed to remember to pay tax on that purchase whenever he files his annual tax return. Shockingly, no one remembers...and honestly most people aren't even aware of this requirement. States see this revenue as money they are due and are missing out on. They're trying to claim that Amazon and other online retailers ARE located in their state and therefore required to collect the tax rather than relying on the consumer to "remember."
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164555].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author beatlechan
    This almost happened to Hawaii last year or two years ago. Amazon actually stopped the affiliate program for Hawaii residents before the bill got passed. Fortunately, the governor at the time vetoed the bill and after a few months, Amazon reinstated Hawaii residents.

    But the proposal has come up again after our new governor took office so Hawaii maybe another state that gets sacked as well.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164579].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Presto Smith
    wow. just when I find an affiliate program that I can make work they go and cut us off at the feet. I guess I will try and change the address to a different state in hopes that I can stay on board.
    Signature
    Presto! Web Developers at Your Service.
    Like Us | We Need Some Fans :) Help a Brother Out and Like Us on Facebook.
    Secure Clickbank Product Delivery | follow link for the WSO (unbeatable price)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164652].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author davidjames42973
      Originally Posted by Presto Smith View Post

      wow. just when I find an affiliate program that I can make work they go and cut us off at the feet. I guess I will try and change the address to a different state in hopes that I can stay on board.
      Try it out, but chances are that you have to show proof that you reside in the address you're changing it to.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164678].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author davidjames42973
        Chances are that Overstock will fold too. Places like Ebay Partner Network and Clickbank have been working with others who have been affected by this stupid law.

        Even though it sucks that Amazon is terminating accounts left and right, they are actually fighting for our rights as affiliates.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164698].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Sid Kaplan
    And this helps create jobs in California? I am not sure anyone wins in this except the legislators who will start getting paid again when the budget passes. California has a unique knack for giving self starters and productive people a reason to leave the state.

    I guess one could always flip their Amazon sites to folks who reside in the "blessed" states for now.

    Somebody shut the lights please if you are the last to leave :-)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164762].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Maddmula
    This SUCKS. I wonder if you can make a bank account in another state without actually being in that other state. Like I live in California, but it would great if I didn't have to drive to Nevada to open a bank account.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164765].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Targeted Traffic
    Better start thinking of states that doesn't have this law.
    However, put up a good fight, say that you strongly oppose and that they will immensely hurt your business and business in the state in general and join a community for it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4164851].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author txconx
    It's not just Amazon. I've had affiliate termination notices coming in all afternoon.

    I don't make that much from Amazon so I figured no big deal. It's starting to become a big deal.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165046].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author CarinN
      Originally Posted by txconx View Post

      It's not just Amazon. I've had affiliate termination notices coming in all afternoon.

      I don't make that much from Amazon so I figured no big deal. It's starting to become a big deal.
      Are these programs through Clickbank or other affiliate networks? Are they physical products or virtual products?

      I do a lot of clickbank marketing and I haven't received any emails accept the one from Amazon.

      I hope it doesn't spread too far.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165075].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    Personally if I was making decent money with Amazon, I would invest in a virtual office out of state to continue my business. They are not all that much money. I wouldn't recommend this to someone starting out, as it takes time to generate income. But if you are pulling in a thousand or two, this expense would be a way to continue that.

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...=g-v1&aql=&oq=
    See, lots of them available.
    Signature

    Tim Pears

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165084].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    I'm waiting for the Affiliates' class action suit against Amazon. They terminated accounts here in Illinois a while back, of course I had only been making $30 - $50 per month at the time from Amazon, so I didn't bother with it. I didn't even bother with switching up my links. Then this last week, I decided to go in and switch the Address to my Aunt's house across the border in Wisconsin. And when I did they re-instated my account. And thus revealed to me that they were still making money from my links the entire time.

    So could they actually be breaking the law? Because those are MY links on MY website, and they are making money from it. So they are actually still making money from my State. Or am I missing something here?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165143].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author doorkicker13
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      I'm waiting for the Affiliates' class action suit against Amazon. They terminated accounts here in Illinois a while back, of course I had only been making $30 - $50 per month at the time from Amazon, so I didn't bother with it. I didn't even bother with switching up my links. Then this last week, I decided to go in and switch the Address to my Aunt's house across the border in Wisconsin. And when I did they re-instated my account. And thus revealed to me that they were still making money from my links the entire time.

      So could they actually be breaking the law? Because those are MY links on MY website, and they are making money from it. So they are actually still making money from my State. Or am I missing something here?
      I'm not sure that's how it works. Those are THEIR links on your site. I think this whole thing is a cloudy area, and one I'm not at all happy about. Anyhow, I'm with you.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165164].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author nohype
        Just google: nexus tax and amazon.

        Interesting stuff comes up.

        Many consider this unconstitutional and a violation of law. Thoughts?
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165608].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author timpears
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      So could they actually be breaking the law? Because those are MY links on MY website, and they are making money from it. So they are actually still making money from my State. Or am I missing something here?
      I don't believe they were as you were not an affiliate at the time. I am sure that they made a few sales to your traffic, but as you were not technically an affiliate at the time, no law broken.

      They told everyone if they moved their address, they would be happy to reinstate them, from what I understood from reading these threads.
      Signature

      Tim Pears

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165392].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author doorkicker13
    Looks like I'll be selling a few websites. I just got this e-mail too. I'm just waiting for them to try and take my guns...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165153].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Clyde Dennis
    I guess Texas can't be too far behind. We've got a big struggle going on concerning taxes and an Amazon distribution center in the Dallas area.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165289].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Cee
    This is very clever strategy by Amazon. This is a preemptive strike and is pretty much letting the lawmakers know that passing this bill won't do them any good so they might as well veto it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165315].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      It already passed - that's why Amazon took action.

      Wonder how many legislators in other states are waking up and saying...

      "hmmm, maybe that's not such a great idea":rolleyes:
      Signature
      Every child needs a pet because every family needs an optimist

      Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world for one dog.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165334].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author troybh
        California sucks anyway everyone. No trees. Got crazy traffic. Crazy windmills all over the place. Every amazon affiliate in Cali should move here to washington state. No chance of getting shut down here that is for sure. Plus you get trees, lots and lots and lots of rain and hey angela edwards lives here so that should tell you something. Rains all the time so there is nothing else to do but sit on the computer doing im marketing.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165349].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Amazon may be winning the battle in some states with it's "impose a tax and we're out of here" actions.

          I just did some research to see if there were any results of the first state to add taxes that led Amazon to cancel affiliates - South Carolina (I think it was first, anyway).

          Seems SC has had a change of heart and that could be what happens in Texas, too, as Amazon has been negotiating there. I don't know if Amazon picks the states it feels are worth negotiating with or waits to see if a state is interested in re-visiting the affiliate tax issue.

          South Carolina passed an amendment that gives Amazon an exemption until 2016. I'm not a lawyer but seems like there are strings attached for affiliates but they may not be that bad.

          More legal info here about it - was just passed a couple weeks ago.

          Colorado and South Carolina’s Unique Positions on “Amazon” Laws – Martindale.com

          Just gets interestinger and interestinger.
          Signature
          Every child needs a pet because every family needs an optimist

          Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world for one dog.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165370].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author nohype
            I've heard of several states suing right now.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165591].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author stephfoster
    I got the letter too. Really hoping some of the lawsuits on this in other states get moving, because I'd like to see some precedent set. I'm pretty confident on the Commerce Clause knocking this one down, but something firm must be decided. It's hard on affiliates waiting to see what's going to happen next.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165346].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SerpSmasher
    this sucks big time! the politicians don't care, were just cattle, well have to resort to crime soon to feed our bellys, then theyll throw us in there private jails, and well still be on the hamster wheel. working for the machine.
    Signature
    Articles any niche! 50 Articles for $30 PM ME!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165375].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author nohype
    Originally Posted by MatthewNeer View Post

    Just got an email from Amazon guys, and this could be detrimental to anyone that lives in California who makes a living off of selling Amazon products.

    Here is EXACTLY what the email said...

    "Hello,

    For well over a decade, the Amazon Associates Program has worked with thousands of California residents. Unfortunately, a potential new law that may be signed by Governor Brown compels us to terminate this program for California-based participants. It specifically imposes the collection of taxes from consumers on sales by online retailers - including but not limited to those referred by California-based marketing affiliates like you - even if those retailers have no physical presence in the state.


    We oppose this bill because it is unconstitutional and counterproductive. It is supported by big-box retailers, most of which are based outside California, that seek to harm the affiliate advertising programs of their competitors. Similar legislation in other states has led to job and income losses, and little, if any, new tax revenue. We deeply regret that we must take this action.


    As a result, we will terminate contracts with all California residents that are participants in the Amazon Associates Program as of the date (if any) that the California law becomes effective. We will send a follow-up notice to you confirming the termination date if the California law is enacted. In the event that the California law does not become effective before September 30, 2011, we withdraw this notice. As of the termination date, California residents will no longer receive advertising fees for sales referred to Amazon(dot)com, Endless(dot)com, MYHABIT(dot)COM or SmallParts(dot) com. Please be assured that all qualifying advertising fees earned on or before the termination date will be processed and paid in full in accordance with the regular payment schedule.


    You are receiving this email because our records indicate that you are a resident of California. If you are not currently a resident of California, or if you are relocating to another state in the near future, you can manage the details of your Associates account here. And if you relocate to another state in the near future please contact us for reinstatement into the Amazon Associates Program.

    To avoid confusion, we would like to clarify that this development will only impact our ability to offer the Associates Program to California residents and will not affect their ability to purchase from Amazon.com, Endless.com, MYHABIT.COM or SmallParts.com.

    We have enjoyed working with you and other California-based participants in the Amazon Associates Program and, if this situation is rectified, would very much welcome the opportunity to re-open our Associates Program to California residents. We are also working on alternative ways to help California residents monetize their websites and we will be sure to contact you when these become available.


    Regards,
    The Amazon Associates Team"



    Hope this shed some light on the recent conversations going on throughout this forum and exactly what Amazon is planning on doing once this law is passed.



    We all wish that it does not pass, but hey, thats politics...


    Your thoughts?
    Nope. Its OFFICIAL now guys. I live in California. Have made some money with Amazon over the last 9 yrs. Now I am completely cutoff! How idiotic! Here's the letter I received right after the previously mentioned one above:
    -----------
    Hello,
    Unfortunately, Governor Brown has signed into law the bill that we emailed you about earlier today. As a result of this, contracts with all California residents participating in the Amazon Associates Program are terminated effective today, June 29, 2011. Those California residents will no longer receive advertising fees for sales referred to Amazon.com, Endless.com, MYHABIT.COM or SmallParts.com. Please be assured that all qualifying advertising fees earned before today will be processed and paid in full in accordance with the regular payment schedule.
    You are receiving this email because our records indicate that you are a resident of California. If you are not currently a resident of California, or if you are relocating to another state in the near future, you can manage the details of your Associates account here. And if you relocate to another state in the near future please contact us for reinstatement into the Amazon Associates Program.
    To avoid confusion, we would like to clarify that this development will only impact our ability to offer the Associates Program to California residents and will not affect your ability to purchase from Amazon.com, Endless.com, MYHABIT.COM or SmallParts.com.
    We have enjoyed working with you and other California-based participants in the Amazon Associates Program and, if this situation is rectified, would very much welcome the opportunity to re-open our Associates Program to California residents. As mentioned before, we are continuing to work on alternative ways to help California residents monetize their websites and we will be sure to contact you when these become available.
    Regards,
    The Amazon Associates Team
    ==========================
    Anyone have some suggestions about working around this? I dont plan to move anytime soon?? Thanks P.s. isnt that 'nice' of them ...to still "allow" me to BUY from them!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165581].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Josiah
    Both Amazon and the state governments are at fault here, but the sheer stupidity is coming from the government side of things. Is it greedy for Amazon to drop state-loads of affiliates to dodge taxes? Yes. But this behavior is obvious, they have consistently dropped states that introduced these taxes every single time without fail, yet more states keep trying to do it. Do they not see this simple pattern? If you try to tax amazon on their affiliate program, they drop your state. Everybody in the equation loses, everybody. All because of the volatile mix that is greed and stupidity.
    Signature
    NEW CopyForPennies WSO "GUARANTEED CONVERSIONS" OFFER: Get A Million Dollar Copywriter For $297!
    VideoSalesletterKing.com World Class Video Salesletters For MAXIMUM CONVERSIONS!
    Want To Hire Me Personally? One Of My Clients Does Over $50 MILLION A Year! MillionDollarAdMan.com
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165612].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author SteveDolan
      Originally Posted by Josiah View Post

      Both Amazon and the state governments are at fault here, but the sheer stupidity is coming from the government side of things. Is it greedy for Amazon to drop state-loads of affiliates to dodge taxes? Yes. But this behavior is obvious, they have consistently dropped states that introduced these taxes every single time without fail, yet more states keep trying to do it. Do they not see this simple pattern? If you try to tax amazon on their affiliate program, they drop your state. Everybody in the equation loses, everybody. All because of the volatile mix that is greed and stupidity.
      Actually the real villan of the piece is Wal-mart. They (in association with Target and Sears) are pushing this through and trying to shut down e-commerce and force people back into their stores. It's a bill aimed at AFFILIATES, not Amazon. Amazon is more than willing to collect sales tax, but in a fair and equitable manner - and to do that it has to be mandated at the federal level (which Amazon are pushing for). So the only leverage Amazon/Endless/Zappos et al have is to terminate affiliate agreements and hope that someone takes notice.

      It's another case of a large corporation using their political power to bully their competition. And small business once again takes the brunt.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4168627].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author sydneypm
        Originally Posted by SteveDolan View Post

        Actually the real villan of the piece is Wal-mart. They (in association with Target and Sears) are pushing this through and trying to shut down e-commerce and force people back into their stores. It's a bill aimed at AFFILIATES, not Amazon. Amazon is more than willing to collect sales tax, but in a fair and equitable manner - and to do that it has to be mandated at the federal level (which Amazon are pushing for). So the only leverage Amazon/Endless/Zappos et al have is to terminate affiliate agreements and hope that someone takes notice.

        It's another case of a large corporation using their political power to bully their competition. And small business once again takes the brunt.
        Well said... and, although we should all speak our minds and let our gov't know what we think... the real issue comes down to adapting your business. The economy is changing and brick and mortar businesses don't like it. Walmart and the like have money to shape the laws, and we don't, so we can either devise a way to change our business or fail.

        I've thought about this for a while and have decided to focus on Adsense income from my Amazon sites. Soon I'll flip all of them, be done with it and focus my attention on where I can make money.
        Signature

        The only true colon cleanse and whole body cleanse info on the net.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4168779].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author affirm758
    I am going to switch all my links to Barnes and Noble. Amazon if fighting a losing battle. In the end they will lose their entire affiliate program if they don't change their tune.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165643].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    Those of you that made fun of me are not laughing so hard now. I told you so. Please get out of cali now. This be just the beginning mon. Do you realize most of us make our money selling using amazon.

    Amazon drops California associates to avoid sales tax - Jun. 29, 2011

    I mean this is bigger news than ebay shutting is doors or pay pal messing up. I do like amazon. However, they are terminating all cali affs now. I told you it was coming. This is not the time for weeping. Action is what we require.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165687].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Cris Cato
      I, myself, got the same letter stating that our stupid governor signed the stupid bill! I was just beginning to get some sales and this happens. This really sucks! I really hope it doesn't get any worse than this. I know it's not the end of the world for most affiliate marketers and most will just move on and find new ways to make money, I just hope this trend does not continue with other merchants online! Bad Amazon bad bad bad!!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165759].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
    Ya .... my termination notice just arrived via email.

    So does this mean I dont really owe them that $2.17 chargeback for the shoes someone returned :-)
    Signature
    Rank Ascend Network - High PR Links / Guaranteed Rankings Increase
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165761].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Michael Daniels
    Amazon is a slave driver so this might be bad news for some but i dont see how anyone can work for .04-.08 percentages... there is so many other ways to earn that would reward you far greater. It could be a blessing in disguise.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165811].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Sid Kaplan
    Just go my confirmation of termination too! The Governor is now off my Christmas Card list :-) Oh well, on to something else I guess. A lot to be said for producing and marketing your own product(s).
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165823].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Christi
      Originally Posted by Sid Kaplan View Post

      Just go my confirmation of termination too! The Governor is now off my Christmas Card list :-) Oh well, on to something else I guess. A lot to be said for producing and marketing your own product(s).
      Well said. We're actually just thinking of doing that - still thinking about what product though .
      It sucks to rely on other people and for your business to be taken away for such unfair reasons.

      Unfortunately it's not only Amazon. It's a whole lot of other companies too. Those with affiliate programs from many retailers will know exactly what I mean when they check their inbox

      Re Amazon - I may be mistaken but aren't they basically a huge re-seller? Meaning they buy from sellers and re-sell to the customer who placed the order? Because the bill isn't only about affiliate marketing but "affiliates" and "partners" in general, I wonder if that means that Amazon would have to pay sales tax to CA-based sellers, and then collect sales tax from the actual customer passing all that down to them, so the cost for the customer would end up being an extra 16-20% with the double sales tax - a huge markup that goes against their main selling point of being very cheap.
      Does that make sense? I may be wrong but I think it's more complicated than Amazon simply avoiding to collect taxes from other states.
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165868].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kkrueger
    I got the nasty gram today too. I almost considered the out of state thing, but I know that if you have an accountant doing your taxes, and he sees income from an out of state address, 1) they are going to question it 2) you could be required to file an out of state return

    Just some things to consider...

    BTW, Overstock.com is probably right behind Amazon.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165909].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author WhosGotMoves
      I came here hoping to find a "simple solution" but from the looks of it one doesn't really exist then? No easy way to create an out of state bank account or fictitious business without investing a pretty penny? I'm just starting and had spent a few weeks on a site completely dedicated to amazon affiliate sales. Someone make a WSO on how to get around this for us Cali residents fast!!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4165959].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author gillzManiju
    I just got the letter too. Usually politicians don't effect me directly. I'm not sure why Jerry Brown signed the law when he said he would put any new taxes on the ballot. Oh I guess he was probably lobbied to sign a bill that he didn't understand would cause California to lose $152 million not gain $300 million. Everywhere I read about this there is such misinformation. What are the politicians doing to this great country.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4166056].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Nightowl John
      If I had been making more affiliate sales, I'd be tempted to file for unemployment.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4166141].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    It's a pity that government legislation might be forcing some of the big guys to move out of state, the state of the economy does not help matters
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4166301].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author cindyw
    I too received the letter. However if you incorporate your business in Delaware or Nevada you can escape this for at least a few years. These will be the last bastions of the dreaded tax laws. It does not matter where your "isp" is. It is where you have set up your corp at. Where your computer is at makes absolutely no difference. And the great thing about Nevada and Delaware is that you pay no income tax on your earnings.

    Cindy
    An accountant in California (don't y'all shoot me)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4166337].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
      Originally Posted by cindyw View Post

      I too received the letter. However if you incorporate your business in Delaware or Nevada you can escape this for at least a few years. These will be the last bastions of the dreaded tax laws. It does not matter where your "isp" is. It is where you have set up your corp at. Where your computer is at makes absolutely no difference. And the great thing about Nevada and Delaware is that you pay no income tax on your earnings.

      Cindy
      An accountant in California (don't y'all shoot me)
      :rolleyes:
      That is 100% false. Whether or not you have a Corp, and LLC, or any manner of business entity, You have to pay personal income taxes on your earnings just like everyone else.

      Cindy, you are not an accountant, nor should you play one on the internet if you give out BS advice like that.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170241].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Page-One
        Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post

        :rolleyes:
        That is 100% false. Whether or not you have a Corp, and LLC, or any manner of business entity, You have to pay personal income taxes on your earnings just like everyone else.
        Luke, you too are wrong. Yes, Nevada too is likely soon to pass an Amazon tax, after which Amazon will shut down the affiliate program here. But no, Nevada is one of a handful of states that levy NO state income tax. I've lived and worked here for many years, and never paid a dime of state income tax. There isn't even a bureaucracy or paperwork to support it.
        Signature
        Expert Editing and Writing:
        Web Posts, Articles, E-Books, WSOs, Books
        (NEW! Kindle File Editing, Upload Help, Cover Creation [no PLR/Public Domain]
        _________________
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170268].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
          Originally Posted by Page-One View Post

          Luke, you too are wrong. Yes, Nevada too is likely soon to pass an Amazon tax, after which Amazon will shut down the affiliate program here. But no, Nevada is one of a handful of states that levy NO state income tax. I've lived and worked here for many years, and never paid a dime of state income tax. There isn't even a bureaucracy or paperwork to support it.
          :rolleyes:
          Re-read what I wrote.

          Again, while there is no STATE income tax in NV for NEVADA RESIDENTS, there are federal and self-employment taxes in EVERY state. So, YOU are wrong. I hope you know you should have been paying taxes every year to the Feds, otherwise you'll be looking at a sizeable tax bill one of these days.

          More on-topic, this is a thread about CA residents. You are a NV resident; there is a BIG difference.

          I am a CA state resident with a Henderson, NV-based LLC. As a CA resident, I still have to pay state income tax on personal income. CA doesn't just say "Oh well your biz is incorporated in Vegas, yeah, you can just keep all your money." :p
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170401].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Page-One
            I don't think Cindyw the accountant, or myself, missed that we all pay U.S. federal taxes in all states. In fact, I explicitly mentioned STATE tax, not federal. But while California Amazon associates might think they can move to Nevada, where they can have the added advantage of no state income tax, and continue their Amazon income, is false hope, given the high likelihood that they could move here and find Amazon almost immediately shutting down the associates program here, as well.
            Signature
            Expert Editing and Writing:
            Web Posts, Articles, E-Books, WSOs, Books
            (NEW! Kindle File Editing, Upload Help, Cover Creation [no PLR/Public Domain]
            _________________
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170462].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author jakdwak
            Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post

            :rolleyes:
            Re-read what I wrote.

            Again, while there is no STATE income tax in NV for NEVADA RESIDENTS, there are federal and self-employment taxes in EVERY state. So, YOU are wrong. I hope you know you should have been paying taxes every year to the Feds, otherwise you'll be looking at a sizeable tax bill one of these days.

            More on-topic, this is a thread about CA residents. You are a NV resident; there is a BIG difference.

            I am a CA state resident with a Henderson, NV-based LLC. As a CA resident, I still have to pay state income tax on personal income. CA doesn't just say "Oh well your biz is incorporated in Vegas, yeah, you can just keep all your money." :p
            Right. And the issue isn't us avoiding taxes, the issue is a new tax eliminating income opportunities in Cali. It's sad that so many California voters won't know about the ripple effects.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170469].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author myob
              Originally Posted by jakdwak View Post

              And the issue isn't us avoiding taxes, the issue is a new tax eliminating income opportunities in Cali. It's sad that so many California voters won't know about the ripple effects.
              This is not a "new" tax. California residents, as also in many other states, have always been required to pay sales tax on internet purchases. But compliance is basically non-existent. This nexus legislation was an attempt to enforce sales tax liability, which has of course back-fired in all the other states where the law has passed. It has become an issue because of the very fact almost everyone has avoided paying internet sales tax.
              Signature
              “If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants.” – Isaac Newton
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170590].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Page-One
      Originally Posted by cindyw View Post

      I too received the letter. However if you incorporate your business in Delaware or Nevada you can escape this for at least a few years. These will be the last bastions of the dreaded tax laws.
      You wish! Please at least read up before posting what amounts to false hope. Nevada (and I live in Vegas so keep track of this) is moving full-steam ahead on the Amazon tax. Google is our friend.
      Signature
      Expert Editing and Writing:
      Web Posts, Articles, E-Books, WSOs, Books
      (NEW! Kindle File Editing, Upload Help, Cover Creation [no PLR/Public Domain]
      _________________
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170253].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author celente
    sometimes I feel isolated living in australia.

    But this is really horrible. I have two friends in Cali and one of them is a marketer who uses amazon. He is going to be spiiting chips over this.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4166353].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author eBusinessChamp
    I knew that I should have registered my company in Nevada!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4166413].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Originally Posted by MatthewNeer View Post

    Your thoughts?

    Isn't this what they call, "Californication"?
    Signature
    Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4166437].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author CurtisSWN
    Remember the Boston "tea party".....
    Signature
    Simple Two Step Formula
    Earns Me Over $146.72 in 12 Hours. This is Weird, But it Works!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4167423].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author David McKee
    Perhaps it is time for a new "Model"... So instead of being "Affiliate Marketers" we become "Proxy Marketers" and we become "out of state fulfillment entities...

    In effect we purchase the products ourselves (if we live in a non nexus state) or through a proxy company (that is in a non nexus state or in a non-taxed foreign land), and then simply provide a fulfillment capability where the product is shipped from the non-nexus state to the buyer without any mention of the actual company from which the item was originally purchased - much easier to do with digital products as there is no warehouse or shipping required, but works with physical products as well.

    Everything is outsource, you provide the traffic and clicks, pretty much same as now.

    let me know what you think.
    Signature
    Are you an affiliate marketer? My site has tons of free stuff and 14,000 pages of Clickbank research. www.affiliatesledgehammer.com
    Buy a Freedom Bulb! Don't let the government tell you what kind of light bulb you can use!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4167440].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Candela
      Originally Posted by David McKee View Post

      Perhaps it is time for a new "Model"... So instead of being "Affiliate Marketers" we become "Proxy Marketers" and we become "out of state fulfillment entities...

      In effect we purchase the products ourselves (if we live in a non nexus state) or through a proxy company (that is in a non nexus state or in a non-taxed foreign land), and then simply provide a fulfillment capability where the product is shipped from the non-nexus state to the buyer without any mention of the actual company from which the item was originally purchased - much easier to do with digital products as there is no warehouse or shipping required, but works with physical products as well.

      Everything is outsource, you provide the traffic and clicks, pretty much same as now.

      let me know what you think.
      Quite an interesting idea if I understand it correctly,what is the "fulfillment capability" you speak of? Are you saying to buy the stuff from Amazon via your own affiliate sites using a proxy company you own and then arranging the shipping yourself? Where would the funds come from to buy the items? How would this be profitable?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4167561].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author David McKee
        The proxy company buys the product from Amazon for example and ships it directly to the actual buyer who came through your site. The shipping could even be provided by amazon in the same way as they ship to your father/mother/friend (for example) when you buy them a Christmas gift online. It would appear only as the proxy company buying, and most significantly, "earning the commission" and "not paying taxes".

        I can even think of a good name for the company: TPPI "Tea Party Proxies Incorporated"

        -DTM
        Signature
        Are you an affiliate marketer? My site has tons of free stuff and 14,000 pages of Clickbank research. www.affiliatesledgehammer.com
        Buy a Freedom Bulb! Don't let the government tell you what kind of light bulb you can use!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4167594].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author GlobalTrader
          Originally Posted by David McKee View Post

          The proxy company buys the product from Amazon for example and ships it directly to the actual buyer who came through your site. The shipping could even be provided by amazon in the same way as they ship to your father/mother/friend (for example) when you buy them a Christmas gift online. It would appear only as the proxy company buying, and most significantly, "earning the commission" and "not paying taxes".-DTM
          Have you considered that your 'proxy' company is now assuming all the risk in fraudulent orders? You also will have the usual 3-5% credit card fees and when you add those additional fees to a markup you would have to place on each item to make it profitable, your item would probably be priced much higher than someone just buying it direct from Amazon??
          Signature

          GlobalTrader

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4168464].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author dunkinbbb
            Originally Posted by GlobalTrader View Post

            Have you considered that your 'proxy' company is now assuming all the risk in fraudulent orders? You also will have the usual 3-5% credit card fees and when you add those additional fees to a markup you would have to place on each item to make it profitable, your item would probably be priced much higher than someone just buying it direct from Amazon??
            And not only that:

            Its one level of risk to play games with Amazon.

            A whole 'nother order of magnitude to play games with the CA government
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4168524].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Chris Q
    Banned
    I'm very sorry for California Amazon affiliates who were affected by this STUPID law! Screw your GOVERNOR!

    Now who's next to be terminated? THE WHOLE WORLD?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4167534].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author whynes
    Originally Posted by diabloepic View Post

    Hello,

    Amazon deferentially opposes the novel tax compilation schemes. If California affiliates are completed, it could charge jobs. Will be cut rotten overnight if pending legislation aimed at adaptable their operations becomes rule.
    Thanks!!!
    So how does this work tax-wise? I incorporate LLC in Nev, have Amazon
    send money to my bank in california, and then I use the money
    to pay my mortgage, etc.

    Is this now a taxable salary from the corporation to me, the only employee?
    Signature

    Wayne

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4167605].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
      Affiliates making a full-time income online need to do what this guy is doing.

      Originally Posted by LA Times

      (Full Story) One affiliate, Ken Rockwell of San Diego, the owner of a 12-year-old photography website, said he planned to move out of state.

      "Will it be Las Vegas or Scottsdale or Ensenada?" he said. "It's a question of where, not if."
      Once states start taking a hit in income taxes, and not realizing the full gains from their new sales taxes, they're either going to have to raise taxes higher and drive more taxpayers from the state or they're going to have to start using common sense approaches to growing revenues by decreasing tax burdens and making their state more attractive to business.
      Signature

      Dan's content is irregularly read by handfuls of people. Join the elite few by reading his blog: dcrBlogs.com, following him on Twitter: dcrTweets.com or reading his fiction: dcrWrites.com but NOT by Clicking Here!

      Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4167640].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author dunkinbbb
        Wonder how far the ripples on this will spread due to fear?

        I just got an email from OfferVault which says in part

        "The laws specify that if there is any affiliate of any company making revenue for a product in that state, then the company itself has to pay taxes for any transaction in those states.
        My explanation is purposely obtuse and vague, because in many cases so are the laws that are being passed. The definition of a transaction or purchase is not very specific and thus is extremely problematic. This means that anyone engaged in any sort of ecommerce, whether it is sale of a product, promotion of a program, signups to site, in theory could be forced to pay those states taxes.

        Thus if you are CPA network promoting a product and you have affiliates in those states, you may be liable for taxes in those states. Why? Because as anyone who is in this industry knows, the definition of who is selling the product, versus what a network is and even what a publisher is, is often difficult to pin down. Sometimes affiliates of CPA Networks are the publisher, sometimes they are just a PPC buyer, and sometimes the network is a publisher of another network. With all the connections, who is to say what establishes the nexus? Don't expect States that are desperate for money to actually define this for you, but instead send any company that has any affiliates in that state, anyone that reports that their money is made from marketing, tax bills. We are their new "banks



        Seems like biggest losers, once again are small businesses in California.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4167685].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Marian Berghes
    I've been reading on a couple of sites that the California law would apply to all affiliates...not just amazon and the likes.

    For example Mike Hill announced that he would no longer work with affiliates from CA because of that law.

    So...which version of the story is true?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4167628].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author amanijl
    How many states has this happened in? Any word that it'll be coming to Wisconsin as well???
    Signature


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4167690].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AnniePot
      I too received both termination emails: first the warning of impending termination, followed by the confirmation of termination immediately Governor Brown signed the law. Both emails explained this was happening to me because I am a California resident.

      BUT I'M NOT! I moved away from California to NE Texas in December 2006.

      And before you ask - yes, I immediately updated all my information with Amazon. Since December 2006 my address has been in Texas, my commission is paid into a bank with a Texas address, the email address I have registered with them is *** at tx.rr.com - HINT: TX = TEXAS.

      Every day I log on to my Amazon account using a Texas Time Warner IP address.

      I replied immediately to each termination email pointing out each of these facts, but so far, no reply. I've scoured their Admin but can't find a contact phone number. If anyone knows of one, please let me know.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4167769].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author dunkinbbb
        Originally Posted by AnniePot View Post

        I too received both termination emails: first the warning of impending termination, followed by the confirmation of termination immediately Governor Brown signed the law. Both emails explained this was happening to me because I am a California resident.

        BUT I'M NOT! I moved away from California to NE Texas in December 2006.

        And before you ask - yes, I immediately updated all my information with Amazon. Since December 2006 my address has been in Texas, my commission is paid into a bank with a Texas address, the email address I have registered with them is *** at tx.rr.com - HINT: TX = TEXAS.

        Every day I log on to my Amazon account using a Texas Time Warner IP address.

        I replied immediately to each termination email pointing out each of these facts, but so far, no reply. I've scoured their Admin but can't find a contact phone number. If anyone knows of one, please let me know.
        Annie:

        Can't PM you with this -

        Go to Amazon - Your orders - Returns - New Return -Help (at bottom right) - Customer Service - Contact us - Phone. You might have to "fake a return inquiry"

        I'm sure it will be a different department - but every time I've used this I have gotten a human immediately - who could point you in the right direction.

        Good Luck


        Does this qualify as my first WSO :-)


        dunkinbbb
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4167842].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author AnniePot
          Originally Posted by dunkinbbb View Post

          Annie:

          Can't PM you with this -

          Go to Amazon - Your orders - Returns - New Return -Help (at bottom right) - Customer Service - Contact us - Phone. You might have to "fake a return inquiry"

          I'm sure it will be a different department - but every time I've used this I have gotten a human immediately - who could point you in the right direction.

          Good Luck


          Does this qualify as my first WSO :-)


          dunkinbbb
          Thank Dunkinbbb - I'll try that route. As you say, that should give me a human being who can point me in the right direction. Much appreciated
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4167910].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JamesGw
    I'm not sure if they'll really pull out of California, but I like that they're taking a stand.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4167839].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Candela
      Originally Posted by JamesGw View Post

      I'm not sure if they'll really pull out of California, but I like that they're taking a stand.
      They already sent the termination emails,there is no "if they'll really pull out" to it anymore.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171919].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Sysbase
    If I open an LLC in another state and just had my Amazon account closed can I just switch my address information to my new LLC and ask to be included again? Or do I have to start a whole new account with them?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4168565].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author blueberries
    That's because Cali is broke and has been bust for a while. Their trying to squeeze and find every drop of green revenue for that state. Amazon is really standing up to this tax bill. wow

    This should send a message to all the other states.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4168572].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author DavidTT
    news like this are pretty scary.

    Not for the fact that you cant promote amazon stuff anymore but it just gives a bad impression of whats ahead for the IM world. I've read somewhere here that there was a similar case where affiliate programs where banned from a certain state.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4168589].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author GlobalTrader
    Someone from another affiliate network just sent me a link to a 13 minute YouTube video documentary about an Illinois dotcom company (FatWallet.com) that physically picked up everything and moved 5 miles to the north into Wisconsin.

    This might be a good video to refer to your California legislators (but I doubt they will bother to watch it) but something that any California affiliate needs to consider goes beyond just Amazon and really affects you with ALL your affiliate sales.

    I am definitely sending the link to my Pennsylvania legislator because both parties in PA seem to have their goals set on following California -

    Signature

    GlobalTrader

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4168600].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Gregg
    Hopefully the big retailers will see enough value in us promoting them and not get behind the lobby that is promoting this legislation.

    It would be interesting to see which side the big retailers (not just Amazon) would actually benefit from the most.

    It sucks when states and the fed go after additional revenue. All it does is put a knife in the economy which causes them to collect even less revenue.

    I hear Arizona is nice.....
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4168611].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dougger1
    We got hammered here in Colorado more than a year ago. I moved my account to Oklahoma where I have a a licensed LLC.

    However, here's the big picture. More and more states are going to do this because finances are so tight. Before you move your amazon account to another state, look at its financial picture. If it looks like it's in dire straits, chose another state. You can just bet that if it's in trouble, it will be looking for new taxes viz. Amazon.com.
    Signature
    Get more logins with a high converting custom report - just $50 for 10-12 pages. Custom articles and posts = $10 for 500 words.
    email: dfhanna@gmail.com
    Skype: doug_hanna
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4169313].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JRC
    Got my account termination letter today too. It's crazy.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4169533].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Vastidious
      I just have to share a response to one of the articles I read about this today. Someone posted this lovely poem.

      "Give us you tired business executives, your poor over-taxed small businesses, your huddled masses yearning to be free from decades of "progressive" social engineering experiments and profligate spending and over-regulation. The wretched refuse left in the wake of your high crime neighborhoods by your shores teaming with welfare recipients and ungrateful illegal aliens. Send these, the hard workers, the ones actually pulling the tax wagon full of freeloaders and Gucci lawyers, tempest-tost to me. I lift my lamp beside the state border!"

      Amen! I wonder if the CA lawmakers included the additional Unemployment benefits that will have to be paid out by newly unemployed "Amazon Affiliates". Since for some of them, they took away 80-100% of their income.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4169585].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author streamline1
    Hi

    How the Affiliate Tax will Hurt CPA Networks Also.
    -----
    Byace Lattin ~ pace @ pacelattin.com



    There has been a great deal of discussion of all the Affiliate Tax laws being passed in the media. Unfortunately, thanks to a great spin campaign by companies such as Walmart, the discussion has been focused on how these new Nexus Tax laws will affect large companies like Amazon and Overstock. Time and time again these new laws being proposed are called "Amazon Taxes" for the sole purpose of ignoring the rest of the companies that will be affected when these taxes are passed. The real truth behind the Affiliate Tax debate is that these laws will have a profound and significant affect on almost every company in the industry, from the largest to the smallest - but will have the greatest impact on the small companies.

    This is not an "Amazon" tax, or an "Overstock" tax, but instead a "Small Business Tax" that has been labeled incorrectly in order that the general media might ignore the reality of what these taxes will do to small businesses. I've actually met a few attorneys who don't quite understand the real problems with these laws. Let's quickly look at what most of these tax laws will do, and explain it simply:

    The laws specify that if there is any affiliate of any company making revenue for a product in that state, then the company itself has to pay taxes for any transaction in those states.

    My explanation is purposely obtuse and vague, because in many cases so are the laws that are being passed. The definition of a transaction or purchase is not very specific and thus is extremely problematic. This means that anyone engaged in any sort of ecommerce, whether it is sale of a product, promotion of a program, signups to site, in theory could be forced to pay those states taxes.

    Thus if you are CPA network promoting a product and you have affiliates in those states, you may be liable for taxes in those states. Why? Because as anyone who is in this industry knows, the definition of who is selling the product, versus what a network is and even what a publisher is, is often difficult to pin down.

    Sometimes affiliates of CPA Networks are the publisher, sometimes they are just a PPC buyer, and sometimes the network is a publisher of another network. With all the connections, who is to say what establishes the nexus? Don't expect States that are desperate for money to actually define this for you, but instead send any company that has any affiliates in that state, anyone that reports that their money is made from marketing, tax bills. We are their new "banks."

    Even if we knew the answer definitively to the different questions, many companies, from lead generation firms to dating sites are going to start avoiding CPA networks in those States for that specific reason. They do not want to risk that working with a company in a certain State will somehow cause a nexus and thus require them to file paperwork, file additional taxes. They'd rather make it easy and work with someone else.

    Thus, as I started, the victims here are not the Amazons of the world. They are the small businesses. Most CPA networks are just that: Small businesses, with a few employees, working hand in hand with their affiliates to create valuable opportunities for their advertisers. They, along with their affiliates will suffer the most. These taxes are aimed at our industry, our friends, our community and our businesses. If we continue to allow them continue without standing up, supporting those people who are fighting, it is very possible in a few years we all will wish we did.
    **Posted in full ~ with permission from Mr. Lattin**

    ____
    Dan
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4169899].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author EvolBaby
      Okay, as you guys may not know I work with lots of television and radio talk shows.

      This issue has turned into something nasty as we're forgetting that many colleges students and military personnel now overseas have their own websites selling Amazon goods. They depended on that money to make ends meet, pay tuition, feed families.

      Now they're screwed. The college kids have only a few weeks to hustle up and change their websites, or have their residences relocated and more. If they don't they either can't go to school or they'll do so starving.

      Military don't have the opportunities to just up and change data and restructure as it's tough to run a business when evil terrorist warlords and their sinister henchmen are shooting at you.

      This isn't an issue of California or other states being concerned about the revenue of their states. If Governor Brown really gave a flying fart there wouldn't be any illegal aliens and gangs in California who cost the state tens of billions of dollars annually not some pissant few hundred million they think they'll get via taxing online businesses.

      It's all bs. A lazy legislator's way of leaning on the people who are trying to stay above water.

      What is really hurting me right now are the senior citizens and disabled war vets, retired law enforcement, retired teachers who have their little Amazon sites to help them get by and now they're screwed. Many may not make it.

      You can see how the problem is America is no longer a nation of laws, it's a nation of lawyers.
      Signature
      Copywriting/Article Writing at $2 per 100 words! Cartoons, Comics, T-Shirt Designs!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4169999].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jake Swearingen
    How many have received the letters?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170016].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jake Swearingen
      And, I'm a reporter with SF Weekly. Would love to talk to any California-based Amazon Associates. Hit me up for contact info -- unable to post it on this forum right now.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170020].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by Jake Swearingen View Post

      How many have received the letters?
      Around 25,000 maybe more. We've been warned for well over 2 years. :rolleyes:
      Signature
      “If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants.” – Isaac Newton
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170088].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        Just read a 'twilight zone' quote from the California Retailers Association thanking Governor Brown for leveling the playing field for California businesses by taxing Amazon.

        Huh?

        Existing California businesses remain in the exact same competitive position with Amazon because Amazon still isn't paying any sales taxes.

        Amazon has pulled out of paying CA affiliates so there is no financial benefit to the state.

        All that has happened are tens of thousands of people have lost some or all of their online businesses, which will put a further strain on the terrible California economy.

        It isn't just Amazon. Many (most) major online retailers are terminating their California affiliates immediately.

        Here's a real kicker ...

        Not to mention names to avoid political issues, but late at night, immediately before approval, a new bill included as part of the budget package was publicly shown for the 1st time that prohibits California from firing a certain type of employee. Let's just say it was not online business owners and marketers who were guaranteed jobs.

        .
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170150].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Page-One
          I don't understand all the "Hey, let's just move to Nevada" stuff on this thread. I live in Vegas, and I can tell you that right now an Amazon tax bill is moving full steam ahead in our greedy, brain-damaged state legislature. The governor is of the same party, so has said he will sign it if/when it passes.

          Before you go packing up to move here, at least do some minimal homework and Google "nevada amazon tax" and read up. It's coming here too. Count on it.

          One of the largest west coast Amazon distribution centers is in Fernley, just east of Reno. Amazon had already made clear they will shut it down and move elsewhere if Nevada passes the tax. They made this same threat to Texas, and Texas for now at least has backed off. Don't expect that to happen here. We have politicians here who would tax by the breath and heartbeat if they could.
          Signature
          Expert Editing and Writing:
          Web Posts, Articles, E-Books, WSOs, Books
          (NEW! Kindle File Editing, Upload Help, Cover Creation [no PLR/Public Domain]
          _________________
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170216].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author newimguy
          Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

          Just read a 'twilight zone' quote from the California Retailers Association thanking Governor Brown for leveling the playing field for California businesses by taxing Amazon.

          Huh?

          .
          The actual quote is "We thank Governor Jerry Brown and the leaders in the California State Legislature who have demonstrated their leadership and commitment to California businesses by passing and signing e-fairness into law. Small and large businesses across the state have been held at a major disadvantage by the current law that out-of-state online companies like Amazon.com and Overstock.com have exploited for years. This has cost us jobs and revenues."


          I'm so weirded out by this quote. Amazon is not collecting taxes. Do they not know this or was their actual target getting the affiliates program closed as Amazon stated?
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170349].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author whynes
      Originally Posted by Jake Swearingen View Post

      How many have received the letters?

      Give or take the odd mistake here or there, it would be in
      the neighborhood of 100% Amazon associates in California;
      estimated in the press to be about 10,000.

      Amazon isn't the only company terminating California
      affiliates. They're just the most visible.

      The real numbers, the whole fallout, I wouldn't imagine having
      any more accurate accounting other than by watching the
      official reports of unemployment in California over the coming
      weeks and making your own estimates based on that.
      Signature

      Wayne

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170118].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author EvolBaby
        Whynes, I'd not been aware of the other affiliate programs that just dropped the hammer on their members.

        I went and checked and gosh oh golly the number of people in California that just lost some or their primary incomes has got to be between 500,000 to 1 million.

        What I didn't think about was the number of people who use their Facebook and MySpace pages and Twitter as feeders to their affiliate sales sites.
        Signature
        Copywriting/Article Writing at $2 per 100 words! Cartoons, Comics, T-Shirt Designs!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170271].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sydneypm
    While everyone is upset about this, I hope you are all still taking care of your business. As i see it, there are probably 2 things to immediately take care of;

    1. Get Amazon ads off your site asap. Your readers can still use those links to leave your site and you make no money. Alternatively, if you use Adsense or have your own product, this may translate into more money clicks through other routes.

    2. Research other affiliate programs. For example, Best Buy is even advertising "Other retailers terminated you. We wont!" They explain on their site that they already have a presence in CA, therefore already pay taxes so nothing changes. There are probably other retailers ready to jump on this opportunity.
    Signature

    The only true colon cleanse and whole body cleanse info on the net.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170369].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Oprah
    Banned
    damn just got the letter too. F this BS.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170383].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jaiganeshv
    That this as a chance and just think of and jot down all the possible mayhem that could happen for your online business and answer how are you going to handle them???

    Thank you
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170557].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author EvolBaby
      Originally Posted by jaiganeshv View Post

      That this as a chance and just think of and jot down all the possible mayhem that could happen for your online business and answer how are you going to handle them???

      Thank you
      That's the best piece of advice here.

      People don't build up backup plans and strategies.

      Anyhow, this will be a big issue on the Bill Handel show here in California.

      It's on KFI 640 AM. You can listen on via the web and actually call him on Saturday mornings on his "Handel On The Law" show where he cracks jokes, gives out legal advice etc. He's bound to talk about this issue and harshly.

      He also belongs to the Legal Zoom website that is a lawyer referral site you can ask experts and they handle such things as LLC's, wills, and just about every legal manner.

      Here's my link: Legal Zoom, legal referral site

      Anyhow, Bill Handel is probably going to have Gov. Brown on the air regarding this issue as will probably the radio hosts John and Ken from the same radio station.

      Again, I'm glad I didn't go the affiliate route as I knew it was unstable. However it can all be fixed if sides would agree on a simple administrative strategy but it won't happen as long as the lawmakers have their hands in the pockets of the big businesses.
      Signature
      Copywriting/Article Writing at $2 per 100 words! Cartoons, Comics, T-Shirt Designs!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170643].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Andrew S
    I've been reinstated after about 20 hours.

    I made a new thread about it, maybe it will help someone.
    Signature


    WF's Top 2 Reseller SEO Services for Offliners:
    Social Foundations: Reputation management & branded link building.
    Hyper-Local Citations: Custom built for your client's niche and city.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170604].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author txconx
    Those of you considering out-of-state LLCs need to remember that you will have to file as a "foreign corporation" in the state of California - to the tune of $800/year.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170671].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Sonomacats
    If you have an LLC in another state, but make it clear that you live in California, then you will have to pay state taxes and deal with California fallout.

    HOWEVER, if you also make it look as if you live in another state, then you can "visit" anywhere you want, but have the advantages of other state.

    If Nevada is contemplating passing the Amazon tax, then get an address in Wyoming. You can also get an excellent LLC that totally protects your privacy. Yes there is some state tax, but it's better than California and it's a heck of a lot better than losing all of your affiliate income just because some jackass in Sacramento decided to pass something to penalize hard workers.

    I'm certainly not going to ditch my income, let alone the years of hard work, just because of this.

    There are plenty of private mailbox companies in Wyoming and you can sign up online. Then just make it look as if you moved.

    You can legally declare residency in whatever state you want. Just like full time RVers who have one state they call home, but live wherever the heck they feel like.

    I was going to recommend New Mexico, but apparently they are contemplating the Amazon tax, as well. However, they are an excellent state for your LLC. You do not have to be a resident of the state where you have your LLC. In fact, it's better if you're not.

    Check out this article: Amazon to shut down California affiliates over new sales tax law)

    I know a number of people who have declared their legal residency in Nevada, but live in California. It works just fine as long as you take the steps and get the mindset right.

    And you only have to pay the "foreign corporation" tax if you make it clear you live in California. You don't want to do that. You need to be clear that you're only "visiting" California, but you live elsewhere.
    Signature

    Writing as Kieran McKendrick
    You can find the first prequel to my Purgatory series (How Blended are Dust and Fire) on Amazon and Smashwords.

    Whether you think you can or think you cannot, you are right. -- Henry Ford

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170691].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author RCwriter
    Here in Colorado, we've been prohibited for quite a while. Has anyone run into anything that is even a close substitute for Amazon, other than cobbling together a bunch of offers from wherever?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170745].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bengirwb
    When I visited some friends in Oregon, I was surprised to find Oregon has no sales tax.
    If a product was labeled $29.95, that's exactly I paid.
    I asked the store manager, who was happy he didn't have to fool with sales tax.
    "We don't expect too much from government," he explained.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170818].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author hirstmusic
    If people in California haven't woken up yet, they never will. When the people around you keep voting in these idiots, well you have no choice but to VOTE WITH YOUR FEET!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4170890].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Sonomacats
    Exactly!

    The people in Sacramento are clueless! Too bad they're not required to actually experience the very thing they're voting on.

    Time to "move" to another state. Don't let these idiots screw you up!
    Signature

    Writing as Kieran McKendrick
    You can find the first prequel to my Purgatory series (How Blended are Dust and Fire) on Amazon and Smashwords.

    Whether you think you can or think you cannot, you are right. -- Henry Ford

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171028].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Sonomacats
    I'm not saying run away.

    But if you don't make it look as if you have, you will lose your income if you've been doing well with Amazon.

    And if you make it look as if you've left California because of this, maybe they'll change their minds and then you can "relocate" back to California (or whatever other state that passed the stupid Affiliate tax).
    Signature

    Writing as Kieran McKendrick
    You can find the first prequel to my Purgatory series (How Blended are Dust and Fire) on Amazon and Smashwords.

    Whether you think you can or think you cannot, you are right. -- Henry Ford

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171055].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Sonomacats
    Oh, and now I see Arkansas is on the chopping block!
    Signature

    Writing as Kieran McKendrick
    You can find the first prequel to my Purgatory series (How Blended are Dust and Fire) on Amazon and Smashwords.

    Whether you think you can or think you cannot, you are right. -- Henry Ford

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171117].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jason Zalesky
    This will happen in the next few years to all the states. The fact is that every state is broke and they only can find money in taxing online sales. Hell Texas has been talking about it for the last year and its getting closer to be fact by the day.

    The problem if it does happen then internet sales are going to die or be pushed to all the brick and mortor business. Like the Walmarts, JCPenneys, Targets, etc. Hell JCPenneys just said it does more online than it does with its stores.

    I already get taxed when it comes to buying through amazon since its about 20 miles from my house here. Or one of their main hubs. This whole economy is just going down the drain. They try to make it look pretty or sound like they are doing better but its just going in the opposite direction.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171307].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author gforces
    This is going 'wildfire across the internet'.... and looks like this is the direction America is moving. Here's a quote from another thread I found:



    "Let this be warning shot across the bow to all of us. This tax will go nationwide eventually. My advice is that somebody might want to start lobbying Congress now.
    Here is my reasoning….we have states far and wide that are desperately starving for tax revenue. Getting it this way is an easy, low risk way for them to do it. It’s a lot easier than pulling cops off the street or cutting teachers pensions. Basically, we are an invisible workforce…let’s face it, that’s part of why we do it.


    However, we better start waking up…because as California goes, so goes the nation in many many things. Once states and the Feds wake up to the “low hanging fruit” of this kind of tax revenue, there are all going to try it."
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171374].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jason Zalesky
    I was just reading more on this and it sounds like Walmart and several other big companies are trying to get the guys dropped from Amazon. So my question is has anyone used Walmart and what do they pay out?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171617].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author myob
      [DELETED]
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171732].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author troybh
        Amazon is not the wrong one here. They just want a fair handshake from the states. If the supreme court rules that they do not have to collect a sales tax then that is what should happen. Walmart who put out of work millions of people because they said "We just have a better business model" is now crying fowl because amazon has a better business model. Sucks. As has been said the US government wants all of us in their grid and the one last opportunity to break out by doing IM is gonna be gone sometime. Sad but true. Bankers and politicians are all controlling us and they are all scumbags just like this Jerry Brown.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171799].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author verneir
          Originally Posted by troybh View Post

          Amazon is not the wrong one here. They just want a fair handshake from the states. If the supreme court rules that they do not have to collect a sales tax then that is what should happen. Walmart who put out of work millions of people because they said "We just have a better business model" is now crying fowl because amazon has a better business model. Sucks. As has been said the US government wants all of us in their grid and the one last opportunity to break out by doing IM is gonna be gone sometime. Sad but true. Bankers and politicians are all controlling us and they are all scumbags just like this Jerry Brown.

          Guys, seriously.. statements like these are basically screaming "economic slavery", which is something people have been talking about for at least 30 years. Just go and google "Zeitgeist Addendum" and watch it..

          By the way, on the same note - as far as economy, history, etc - do you know why the US is not on the gold standard?

          Did you know that in the history of the United States of America, it has been *illegal* to own gold? Don't believe me?


          Executive Order 6102 is an Executive Order signed on April 5, 1933, by U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt "forbidding the Hoarding of Gold Coin, Gold Bullion, and Gold Certificates within the continental United States". The order criminalized the possession of monetary gold by any individual, partnership, association or corporation.
          Executive Order 6102 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

          Owning Gold & Silver is Terrorism

          Check out sites like www.goldsilver.com for information on the precious metals in general.

          Hmmmmm....... I wonder. Are all those companies in the US trying to encourage folks to buy Gold lately anticipating a crash? Perhaps they just want to convert their gold to fiat currency, in the hopes that their capital will be retained?

          What about the folks that keep advertising, "We BUY Gold!".. are they anticipating that gold is undervalued and that it will significantly increase in value over the next 5 to 10 years?

          Don't know... don't know.

          For that matter, for all the 'that's unconstitutional' talk that goes around, I wonder how many US citizens have actually read the consitution. It's not a long read.

          Here's an interesting article.
          Unconstitutional Money

          Why do you suppose the prohibition against using "any Thing but gold and silver coin" as money was removed from the bankers' version of the Constitutional cite? Could it be that the Federal Reserve Bank is perpetuating an un-Constitutional monetary system known as fractional reserve banking using un-backed Federal Reserve notes? And, that if they came right out and told us that the Constitution prohibited "bank note paper money" - such as the system they have fostered upon us - we just might OBJECT?
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4172630].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author verneir
            Oh, also I don't have any love for Walmart or anyone else. Walmart also puts people out of business. They've put many, many people out of business.

            It's funny how people who are employed, particularily gainfully employed, profitable corporations, politicians, etc seem to jump on the bandwagon for trains of thought like,

            "You just need to learn, grow and adapt. Move with the times."

            Yet if their power base, their personal little empires become threatened.. what do they do? Attempt to use whatever means at their disposal to control the situation.

            What's even more funny about that, is that in the end it never actually works.

            I'll give you an example which I'm sure many of you won't see as I do. We're marketers. Learning and working with branding concepts, consumer psychology, and the like we gain a unique perspective on what types of things allows a business to thrive.

            What happens to a company over time when it line extends right into infinity?

            But, see, a lot of people either don't know any better or don't care. Because it's all about THEM, and in the HERE and NOW.. rarely does a CEO actually understand and care about the future. They care about the here and now, making their bonuses, and getting out.

            Granted, there is a good bit of my opinion injected here but.. still. I stand by the spirit of what I've said.

            Now.. to continue that line of thought, though, it really comes back to one thing in the end: Greed.

            Greed is not something does anyone any good when left unchecked. Unfortunately it is probably part of human nature, or at the least part of modern Western society, but as with anything when it is taken too far bad things happen.

            That's all we're seeing here. Everybody has their hands out looking for their payout... and guess whats going to happen in the end? Nothing good, at least not for us, not unless things start changing dramatically.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4172680].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author The Lurker
      Originally Posted by Daniel Brock View Post

      I hate to break it to everyone but it's only a matter of time before the US govey eliminates most online business opportunities.

      They want people locked into their grid with no way of breaking out, and this "online thing" is one of the few remaining opportunities to do just that.

      Soon visa/mastercard/paypal will start cracking down. Email providers will follow.

      And these absurd tax laws lead the way.
      Hmmm, maybe you should come out with a product about that very topic.

      Call it 'The Deadbeat Affiliate Loophole'.

      ...see many of your own sites lose in the SERPS since Panda, Dan? Or have you been spared the agony?

      Originally Posted by Jason Zalesky View Post

      This will happen in the next few years to all the states. The fact is that every state is broke and they only can find money in taxing online sales.
      Yes, and we all know why that is.

      All countries are rife with corruption of political entities in the name of corporate and personal gain, and expediency - the US, however, simply seems to have perfected that process.

      Which is why we instead have Trickle Up Economics, no Trade Tariffs (unlike Germany and most other countries, who actually protect the workers and middle class) and the rapid destruction of the Middle Class, no effective industrial, environmental, and financial regulatory agencies (just 'lip service'), a small Oligarchy bleeding the rest of us dry for short-term gains (kind of like the production of alcohol from yeast fermentation - eventually, the poisonous byproducts kill off the producers in a self-limiting reaction), and virtually every policy or support system that should be in the hands of the government for reasons of public good is being privatized instead - corporate opportunism for the benefit of the cronies of a select few.

      (Michigan's 'Emergency Managers'? Union-Stripping Bills? De-funding of Planned Parenthood, the EPA, and Republican refusal to allow the appointment of a head to our Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, our Banking Watchdog group (Elizabeth Warren) - as well as continually vetoing appointments of many other, currently open (empty), essential positions within our government?

      Stripping away the rights of women (keep 'em 'barefoot and pregnant') by doing away with abortion to keep them slaves to their biology, and maintain a patriarchal status quo and inequality?

      Destroying the ability of voting drives to register first-time voters (and the poor), who overwhelmingly vote Democratic?

      Stripping retirement benefits and Medicare/Medicaid, giving folks a 'voucher' that won't last 'em two days of expenses in a decent hospital?

      Some (very few, very rich) folks want to Keep You Poor and KILL YOU - but not before they can bleed you for all you're worth.

      And they get their base (which they both despise, and fear) to vote on emotion, using smoke and mirrors (gay rights, abortion, drug war - crap they don't really care ONE WHIT ABOUT), to hide their true agenda - without whose support they would never get elected in a popular vote.

      The sad part is, the bait-and-switch WORKS - and will keep working. And the GOP is actively doing its best efforts to make sure the current administration fails (cutting all programs and spending that have a net positive effect on the economy, while redistributing everything upwards - and cutting taxes even more)

      ----

      Which is too bad, because just re-implementing Clinton-era income tax rates and raising the Capital Gains tax to 17% (two measly points) would fund all our programs into the future indefinitely, and close our debt faster than you can say 'What IOU?'

      And unfortunately, there's really nothing anyone can do about it - except to take care of their own (immediate family). The game is rigged, the deck is stacked - and most of us lost a long time ago.

      Which is where online businesses come in - and why this is such a threat for us. And if you haven't started creating your OWN products, then this should be a wake-up call to you.

      Pretty soon, there will be NO safety net in this country - and we'll have a 'Thailand' system of retirement.

      (i.e. the kids take care of the adults, many of whom have no other visible means of support)

      Too bad our culture keeps devaluing the older generations year after year - as well as our sense of obligation and responsibility to them.

      ------

      Wish I could be more positive about it, but that's 'the way it is', to quote the esteemed Walter Cronkite.


      Originally Posted by rom173 View Post

      Edit: After reading all of Page-One's posts, LLC's don't even look good. God Help us All! Lets get rid of these politicians who have no value, create no jobs, and think that taxing the already struggling is the answer. And I don't want to hear another word from these guys about making us more competitive with China. In doing so we will have to earn much less than we are now, in order for companies to move manufacturing jobs back to the US.
      No, but for starters, we absolutely have to increase trade tariffs - like most other smart countries do - see above rant. The reason we don't have them is because of the business Oligarchy, who wants to use cheap labor in China and Southeast Asia and still be able to ship their own products back over here to be sold to the mass market.

      The fact that (native, not MNCs with manufacturing capabilities located overseas) companies in China and India can do the same - and outsource certain jobs from the American sector to those third party providers - just adds insult to injury. But those policies all started HERE, with a few dozen large companies and the complicity of those politicians whom they'd bought.

      I was in product management at a large MNC about 10 years ago with manufacturing facilities in the US, and over a mere five year period, we moved a few of our plants TWICE - first to Mexico, and then to SEA (Southeast Asia), as even Mexico became too costly to produce our products labor-wise.

      Policies like NAFTA and our current trade policies, in conjunction with (current and proposed) taxation laws, are quickly destroying our Middle Class (a group which is essential for keeping our economy stable, long-term) - just as the Oligarchy intended.

      ==> They don't give a s**t about us. They never have. And they'll keep doing so until the villagers chase after them with pitchforks and torches.

      --

      As for this - too bad, I was considering relocating to California. The San Fran area is pretty nice, all told - if you can afford it.

      -TL
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171876].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author davidjames42973
        This really is crummy, but most of us saw it coming from a mile away.

        One thing you can do to start promoting on Amazon again is go to
        this website: http:// skimlinks.com

        Setting up an account is free. What Skimlinks does is they allow you to
        use their affiliate links. Then instead of getting paid by Amazon directly,
        Skimlinks will pay you instead.

        The only catch is they do take a commission. Hope this helps
        some of you alleviate the blow of having your accounts suspended.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171921].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author dunkinbbb
          Originally Posted by davidjames42973 View Post

          This really is crummy, but most of us saw it coming from a mile away.

          One thing you can do to start promoting on Amazon again is go to
          this website: http:// skimlinks.com

          Setting up an account is free. What Skimlinks does is they allow you to
          use their affiliate links. Then instead of getting paid by Amazon directly,
          Skimlinks will pay you instead.

          The only catch is they do take a commission. Hope this helps
          some of you alleviate the blow of having your accounts suspended.
          Now that sounds like a genius business model

          Talk about having customers hungry and in pain.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171946].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author SeoVancouverWa
          Unless someone wants the product NOW, Amazon has an advantage when they do NOT have to charge sales tax and local stores do! That cannot even be argued!

          If Amazon cared so much about its affiliates it would charge the tax! It cost them NOTHING to charge the tax and then remit that to the state of California. Some of you just do not get it!!!!

          One final example because arguing this point doesn't seem worth much more of my time.

          Let's say a person buys a product from Amazon for $200, they pay $200 plus some shipping. But in many cases you can get FREE shipping.

          The store in California that charges $200 for the SAME product must charge the client $218 (roughly 9% sales tax). So who do you think has the advantage if the customer does NOT want the product right now?

          Of course Amazon does!!! Amazon could EASILY charge the tax but instead they choose to dump 10,000 affiliates!! Does this sound like they are protecting their affiliates? Come on man!

          But they mention in their letter that you can still buy products from Amazon if you live in California! LMAO. Are you serious Amazon? You just dump your affiliates, some of them making a lot of money, and you make sure you let them know they can still buy products from you.

          If some of you do not get it...you never will.

          Did California make a mistake in the big picture? Most likely yes. But Amazon is acting like a spoiled brat.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4171971].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author whynes
            Originally Posted by SeoVancouverWa View Post

            If Amazon cared so much about its affiliates it would charge the tax! It cost them NOTHING to charge the tax and then remit that to the state of California. Some of you just do not get it!!!!
            I see your point. I just disagree with it. It isn't an issue of getting it.

            Here's what I do get:

            1) The constitution reserves regulation of interstate commerce to the
            federal government, not to California.

            2) Nowhere in Amazon's affiliate agreement did they promise to care
            about me. It was a business arrangement, not a relationship.

            3) Your points about 'fairness', whether refutable or not, won't grant
            California authority reserved for the feds, nor will it make Amazon care
            about me. And it absolutely won't fix what's wrong with California.

            4) Sacramento has crafted a legal noose around a segment of their
            own populace to create a legal fiction they can use to politicize
            and justify their efforts to usurp the constitution.

            If I'm to be sacrificed, I'd prefer it not be for a perversion of the
            constitution. I do not look to Amazon to save me from injustice,
            nor do I blame them if they don't.

            I am more concerned about the lack of care I'm receiving from
            the California government who is, in theory, supposed to be
            acting in the best interest of those who elected them. Not
            making ideological points at the cost of their own citizens'
            livelihood.

            California's predation of its own citizens to make an ideological
            point is far more worrisome to me.
            Signature

            Wayne

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4172039].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Tenzo
            Originally Posted by SeoVancouverWa