Email opt-in after WSO purchase? How popular is this?

36 replies
As someone who is not in the IM niche, I've had no reason to buy multiple WSO's. Just wondering how popular it is to be forced to submit your email AFTER you've purchased the product in order to receive the download link?

I'm assuming this is how the majority of WSO sellers build their customer lists?
#email #optin #popular #purchase #wso
  • Profile picture of the author goindeep
    I absolutely HATE THIS!!!! And just to let people know;

    If you dont want to be added to the list you simply PM the seller and ask for you product to be sent without you adding your name and email.

    Or alternatively just add your name and email and then unsub after you get your product. Im not subscribed to anyones list from the WF. But thats just me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Scott,

      I couldn't tell you how common this practice is, but I wouldn't recommend it.

      Apart from annoying your buyers (especially if you don't warn them prior to purchase), you'll run the very real risk of having your PayPal account closed.


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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      It doesn't matter all that much how popular it is, if the vendor's taking payments by PayPal, because they don't allow it.

      Many people do it, not realising that they're risking their PayPal accounts by doing so. It will take only one complaint to PayPal to close them down (it happened to a client of mine, last year).

      Personally, if I buy something from someone who makes product delivery conditional on opting in, and they don't tell me that before I pay, I'm never doing business with them again (I won't actually ask for a refund just for that reason, but other Warriors have said in earlier discussions of this subject that they will). Who wants to do business with someone who varies the terms of the contract of sale after taking payment? :confused: :p

      If they make it clear beforehand, of course, that's a different matter.

      Further information is here.
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  • Profile picture of the author theimdude
    They should add a rule if you want to sell a WSO here on Warrior Forum

    NO EMAIL OPTIN AFTER/DURING SALE CONCLUDED

    As every day I get +- 30 emails. If I am interested in you stuff I will find in where I find it best.

    I mean I sometimes get like 3-5 emails a day from some simple guy.

    Problem is I used a working email to buy WSO's. I am going to create a email wsoblackhole@........

    Please don't reply and tell me to unsubscribe.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Please don't reply and tell me to unsubscribe.
      Why ot - why would you tolerate someone sending several emails to you a day if you don't want those emails?
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      • Profile picture of the author theimdude
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Why ot - why would you tolerate someone sending several emails to you a day if you don't want those emails?
        As for me to get my product you have to optin. I don't mind optin for update for the product I purchased but then I should not be forced
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    • Profile picture of the author goindeep
      Sorry to say but the reality is that about 40% of WSO's do this. See for yourself.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by theimdude View Post

      They should add a rule if you want to sell a WSO here on Warrior Forum

      NO EMAIL OPTIN AFTER/DURING SALE CONCLUDED
      Please excuse my saying that I don't agree with this at all.

      Why should they interfere with people's "freedom of contract" like that? :confused:

      There's absolutely nothing wrong with vendors requiring their customers to opt in by email, when making a digital purchase, as long they disclose openly before payment that those are the terms of sale.

      And then customers can make an informed decision that either they do, or they don't want to buy on those terms, without it being sprung on them only after payment.

      Where's the problem?

      That isn't a problem for PayPal, and certainly shouldn't be a problem for the Warrior Forum, who are simply "selling advertising space", after all. Why on earth should they lay down acceptable payment terms for anyone when they're not even a party to the transactions involved?! :confused:
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      • Profile picture of the author theimdude
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Please excuse my saying that I don't agree with this at all.

        Why should they interfere with people's "freedom of contract" like that? :confused:

        There's absolutely nothing wrong with vendors requiring their customers to opt in by email, when making a digital purchase, as long they disclose openly before payment that those are the terms of sale.

        And then customers can make an informed decision that either they do, or they don't want to buy on those terms, without it being sprung on them only after payment.

        Where's the problem?

        That isn't a problem for PayPal, and certainly shouldn't be a problem for the Warrior Forum, who are simply "selling advertising space", after all. Why on earth should they lay down acceptable payment terms for anyone when they're not even a party to the transactions involved?! :confused:
        So if you walk into a store and buy a bottle of perfume do you before you allowed to walk out have to give the vendor you name and email address?

        No as if you did you would leave as you don't want to be bombarded with there offer.

        So what you saying is let us buy a WSO and at the same time get nailed via a paypal auto optin system, the warrior plus system and then you have to optin to get your product. That is like 3 emails to buy something.

        If you want to get emails give stuff of value away and build a relationship with your customers but this is not the way.

        I understand that the Warrior Forum only sells advertising space but there are rules already in place.

        If it is ok for you to buy a WSO and having to unsubscribe from emails that you didn't subscribe + sometimes 1 or 2 extra, but for me it is anoying

        Yes all the guys doing will just say - you can easily unsubscribe

        A few post up somebody mentioned that they are now getting a lot of email from buy a WSO which they did not subscribe to.

        Not sure but if I purchase something and is subscribed to a list automatically via warriorplus or paypal using some script and I get a email on that list, then to me that is spam whether you can unsubscribe or not
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by theimdude View Post

          So if you walk into a store and buy a bottle of perfume do you before you allowed to walk out have to give the vendor you name and email address?
          No, but if they TELL me that they require my name and address in order to sell it to me, then I'm free to decide whether or not I want to buy it on that basis.

          My problem with them arises, obviously enough, if they take my money FIRST and only then give me a form to fill in and say "no perfume until you give your address as well".

          Everyone can see the difference between these two scenarios, clearly: one is honest and above-board and ethical and decent and legal and truthful and respects my contracting rights. The other isn't and doesn't.

          Originally Posted by theimdude View Post

          So what you saying is let us buy a WSO and at the same time get nailed via a paypal auto optin system, the warrior plus system and then you have to optin to get your product. That is like 3 emails to buy something.
          No - that isn't what I'm saying. I didn't even say anything similar to that.

          PayPal have got this right. They allow it, if it was part of the contract of sale and the customer bought on that basis. They don't allow it if it wasn't, but was "sprung on you later as an additional term of contract after payment, i.e. after the contract was formed". What could be simpler? Where's the problem, here, again?! :rolleyes:
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            If you use WSO Pro then the email addresses can be captured automatically without the customers having to be inconvenienced at all.
            I agree - I don't like that, either. I can't buy ANYTHING in the WSO section these days without being added to a list - with or without my permission.

            I should not have to take an action to stop receiving emails that I didn't request or authorize in the first place. The deal on a sale is this:

            I pay the money
            You give me what I paid for

            You don't have the right, in my opinion, to insert another requirement AFTER that payment has been made. Buying a product from you does not mean I want to hear from you about every other product on the market.

            Paypal does not like this practice - and that should be enough to stop you from doing it. You can offer an email signup - you can suggest an email signup for "updates" (that's questionable if you are then going to just send one promo after another).

            This is a practice that is going to come back to slap marketers at some point. When there's a crackdown people will be screaming "not fair".

            I don't care what you call it - or how you justify it - if a customer has no choice about signing up for your list...it's a FORCED opt in.

            kay
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          • Profile picture of the author theimdude
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post


            Originally Posted by theimdude
            So what you saying is let us buy a WSO and at the same time get nailed via a paypal auto optin system, the warrior plus system and then you have to optin to get your product. That is like 3 emails to buy something.


            No - that isn't what I'm saying. I didn't even say anything similar to that.
            That is what I a not happy about not if it is done the right way. Will mentioned that he thinks there is a tick box that is "ticket" for you to receive emails. That should be "unticked" as if not it is forced optin.
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      • Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Please excuse my saying that I don't agree with this at all.

        Why should they interfere with people's "freedom of contract" like that? :confused:

        There's absolutely nothing wrong with vendors requiring their customers to opt in by email, when making a digital purchase, as long they disclose openly before payment that those are the terms of sale.

        And then customers can make an informed decision that either they do, or they don't want to buy on those terms, without it being sprung on them only after payment.

        Where's the problem?

        That isn't a problem for PayPal, and certainly shouldn't be a problem for the Warrior Forum, who are simply "selling advertising space", after all. Why on earth should they lay down acceptable payment terms for anyone when they're not even a party to the transactions involved?! :confused:
        People love to put rules on every aspect of life that is why! One day (I'm sure of it) we will wake up and have some rule on how to email someone.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
    Originally Posted by Scott Kennedy View Post

    I'm assuming this is how the majority of WSO sellers build their customer lists?
    There are better ways of doing it.

    It's easy to intergrate Aweber with Paypal, so while they are sent to the download page, an email is sent inviting them to subscribe to your mailing list.

    Another option is to have the opt-in form on the download page, underneath the access link.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      It's also easy enough to request an opt-in "for updates and further information" as long as you also have a "no thanks: just proceed to download" option.

      For myself, if I were doing a WSO, I would perhaps simply state openly that "product delivery is conditional on a confirmed email opt-in", and then nobody can possibly complain.

      The potential problem here arises from springing an undisclosed condition on people, and the easiest way to avoid that is surely simply to disclose it in the first place?
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    If you use WSO Pro then the email addresses can be captured automatically without the customers having to be inconvenienced at all. As someone else correctly pointed out making someone optin to receive their purchase is against Paypals terms and you should report the person.

    If you are annoyed by the people emailing you everyday then just unsubscribe from their lists. This is always going to happen as some people like to milk their lists for everything they are worth so it's up to you to unsubscribe or they will never get the message.
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by cosmokid View Post

      This is actually one feature about WSO Pro that concerns me. I bought a WSO the other day and now I'm getting loads of emails about "WSO's of the Day" and stuff to that email address, which are NOT from the particular vendor I bought from. I didn't realize that simply buying through the WSO PRO payment button on a WSO puts me on this "uber" list ! I think it's a problem.
      I think you'll find there is a checkbox at some stage in the buying process that you are able to uncheck if you do not want to be subscribed... otherwise you will be added to the WSO of the Day list. Not the end of the world though, just unsubscribe if you don't want them.
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    • Profile picture of the author theimdude
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      If you use WSO Pro then the email addresses can be captured automatically without the customers having to be inconvenienced at all. As someone else correctly pointed out making someone optin to receive their purchase is against Paypals terms and you should report the person.

      If you are annoyed by the people emailing you everyday then just unsubscribe from their lists. This is always going to happen as some people like to milk their lists for everything they are worth so it's up to you to unsubscribe or they will never get the message.
      So basically they can do a optin without you knowing and if you don't like it YOU must now unsubscribe.

      I buy a WSO to get a product not to get on a person's list to be bombarded with offers all the time. Do me a OTO after I have my product not before

      I paid you for your product not to get on your list. If you want me on your list then pay me :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author WillR
        Originally Posted by theimdude View Post

        So basically they can do a optin without you knowing and if you don't like it YOU must now unsubscribe.

        I buy a WSO to get a product not to get on a person's list to be bombarded with offers all the time. Do me a OTO after I have my product not before

        I paid you for your product not to get on your list. If you want me on your list then pay me :rolleyes:
        I didn't design the system just telling you how it works. There are also people who will not use your email address for evil. I do not sit there and fire off promotions to my WSO list every day. I will only ever contact them if I have an important update for the original product they purchased from me. If I didn't do this then people would complain I hadn't informed them of the updates. I don't see anything wrong with this but I do hate those who think it's their right to start swamping you with emails every day of the week.
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        • Profile picture of the author theimdude
          Originally Posted by WillR View Post

          I didn't design the system just telling you how it works. There are also people who will not use your email address for evil. I do not sit there and fire off promotions to my WSO list every day. I will only ever contact them if I have an important update for the original product they purchased from me. If I didn't do this then people would complain I hadn't informed them of the updates. I don't see anything wrong with this but I do hate those who think it's their right to start swamping you with emails every day of the week.
          Will if this is what you doing it is fine but I have purchased WSO's where I get sometime upto 5 emails a day.

          And yes I can unsubscribe. I buy +- 20 WSO on average a month and this email thing cheeses me off and if buyer get annoyed we should do something shouldn't we.

          I got a email today with the saying in the subject "i am dying"

          I opened the email and it said "my laptop battery is busy dying"

          Some might call it funny but I hit the unsubscribe button.


          Actually I have the solution to resolve this issue once and for all.

          They must add two buttons to your WSO or after you clicked the buy now

          EXPRESS
          CHECKOUT

          CHECK OUT MY
          OTHER OFFERS
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by cosmokid View Post

      I didn't realize that simply buying through the WSO PRO payment button on a WSO puts me on this "uber" list ! I think it's a problem.
      It certainly is. :p

      Originally Posted by cosmokid View Post

      This is actually one feature about WSO Pro that concerns me.
      Different here: I already had other problems about WSO PRO.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Different here: I already had other problems about WSO PRO.
        Yeah, I wish Allen and the Mods would do something to fix those problems, too.

        ~M~
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          People are always saying it's against the PayPal TOS but I've looked and can't find it. Can someone point me to it?
          Good question. I didn't look for it - but wasn't that the reason the initial $7 script ran into problems with paypal quite some time ago? I've seen complaints of people that say it was a problem for them with paypal - but don't think I've seen it on the PP site.

          The problem with "legal action" is that it's expensive. Few marketers have an income that can support an expensive court battle or big legal fees if they are only trying to prove a point or prove their rightitude. So most will fuss and argue - and then move on.:p

          kay
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          • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            Good question. I didn't look for it - but wasn't that the reason the initial $7 script ran into problems with paypal quite some time ago? I've seen complaints of people that say it was a problem for them with paypal - but don't think I've seen it on the PP site.
            Some people where told that but in my experience, the people on the phone don't have a clue and make guesses. I know some where also told because of the verbiage promoting the instant commission being a benefit.

            Maybe it's not specifically mentioned but is illegal so it falls under another part?

            *shrugs*

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          • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            Good question. I didn't look for it - but wasn't that the reason the initial $7 script ran into problems with paypal quite some time ago?

            As I remember it the problem with the $7 script was the wording on the sales page. There was mention of being able to resell the product for instant commissions after you purchased it directly on the sales page and PayPal saw this as a ponzi type scheme. Once the wording on the sales page was changed there haven't been any further problems of that sort with the product.
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    • Profile picture of the author entry
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      If you use WSO Pro then the email addresses can be captured automatically without the customers having to be inconvenienced at all. As someone else correctly pointed out making someone optin to receive their purchase is against Paypals terms and you should report the person.

      If you are annoyed by the people emailing you everyday then just unsubscribe from their lists. This is always going to happen as some people like to milk their lists for everything they are worth so it's up to you to unsubscribe or they will never get the message.
      With the Wso aweber automatic email address, this is their paypal address which gets added to aweber.

      Would their paypal address usually be their common communication email? (as many have a different common email add to their paypal address) - if so, then collecting their paypal email address wouldn't be as required as we think?

      {as in a way wouldn't it be a waste, if they weren't reading/opening their paypal email address regularly, if they had another different common address?}
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  • Profile picture of the author ChristopherTheron
    I never REQUIRE Opt-In for my WSO's, but I do present the opportunity. I always try to add value to the package if they choose to opt-in to my mailing list. If you have a reputation of delivering quality products and knowledge, people will want to be part of your mailing list.
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  • Profile picture of the author absolutelee
    I buy a lot of WSO's. So, I get on a lot of lists. If a marketer sends me too many emails, I just unsubscribe. Actually, there are a few marketers who actually send me stuff that works and that I'm glad to know about. So, being on someone's list can be a good thing, too! All you have to do is to unsubscribe.
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  • Profile picture of the author DanielleLynnCopy
    I do the optional subscribe - people can decide whether or not they want updates or to be added to the list.

    And instead of just trying to pitch things to my list all the time, I actually give them valuable tips on how to maximize use from their purchases from me, as well as updates.

    As far as the ethics behind auto-subscribing, I agree with Alexa's sentiments here; I don't think I'd mind as long as I knew that was a requirement before I purchased the product.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mohammed Hammad2
    Yeah, I think the best solution is simply make a form like this

    "If you want to receive new updates about our product and also get our newsletter then subscriber"

    But below this form is the Download link in case they don't want to subscribe

    100% optional. Why would you want to add someone who doesn't want to be on your list?!
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  • Profile picture of the author MaxReferrals
    You can't FORCE people to optin to download if you use Paypal. That pisses off PP (and customers) and you can lose your account.
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  • Profile picture of the author Coby
    Here's an alternative...

    After purchase present them with the opt-in but have a link that says "no thanks, I don't want updates, give me my download"

    Or use integration with WSO Pro - but oftentimes a PayPal email might not be checked often (or is flooded with payment messages).
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author theimdude
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      Personally, I think the best solution overall is to simply modify your PayPal IPN script (or other payment processor) to auto-subscribe them to your list.

      The customer gets a followup email to optin and they can then choose whether or not to do so. It's harmless, a once off email confirmation and avoids the need to annoy customers with a forced optin post sale.
      Hi Mike,

      I don't agree with this as well as you get this unexpected email and you think it is related to the sale and you click.

      I actually prefer your way. I own a number of your products. The only time I hear from you is when you have a sale, launch a new product and now again something related to your product.

      That is the way I like it and this way I purchased most of your products after the first one
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  • Profile picture of the author JJ Gallagher
    Guys,

    If you use WSO Pro it auto sends the email where you click a link to approve the vendor to send you further emails, if you dont want to get further emails, dont click the link...

    We should also remember that we are getting extreme discounts on these products so whats adding your name to an email list for a 50% discount or more?

    Also there might be a bunch of crap lists out there but what if you actually get value from a list? Is it such a huge problem then?

    With the discounts we get I thinks its ok for the WSO Pro route, thats my opinion.

    JJ
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Honestly curious...

    People are always saying it's against the PayPal TOS but I've looked and can't find it. Can someone point me to it?

    I ask because if PP closes your account for a violation not in the TOS, seems legal action could be possible. It's like punishing forum members for violating "uwritten rules."

    Either way, unless it's a membership or a product that requires a user name it's a bad practice. I automate it on some and on others I use a "click here to not be added" link on prefilled forms.

    Garrie
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  • Profile picture of the author fitz10
    I do not like forced opt-ins and knowing that PayPal is on the war path against them should make any marketer leery of using them. Something that has worked out well for me is offering a bonus for opting in and I clearly state in the sales letter that the bonuses are for people who volunteer to opt-in, no obligation on anyone's part.
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