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In 40 years of life, I never have seen a more DISHONEST BUSINESS than PAYPAL. Another HORROR story !

by Nisip Banned
83 replies
In 40 years of life, I never have seen a more DISHONEST BUSINESS than PAYPAL. Another HORROR story !

I recently turned 40 years old.

I own three of the over 500 websites that sell traninings for Facebook ads and advertising on Facebook.

For last 3 years, I never had ONE SINGLE REFUND.

Recently, my Paypal account has been frozen. Because I was travelling
and I logged in one day from France and then the next day from Switzerland.

They wrote "suspicious activity" and froze my $9,340.00 USD
in my account.

And then another Paypal horror story, like hundreds of thousands other horror stories began:

Hours of talks with customer service, and their constant promises
that the limits will be removed immediately after I send them
a lot of documents.

Each step that I completed, they asked for more and more things,
Paypal got my passport scan, my national id scan, my license driver scan,
my documents from my company, my proof of address,
my business registration, absolutely everything.

I want to underline again, that I know for a fact that I was ALWAYS
100.00% HONEST with everything, and I NEVER had ONE SINGLE
REFUND REQUEST from any customer. And not one single complain.

Still, Paypal decided today that my account is
"high risk" because I logged in from two different neighbouring countries
and because of this, they keep my $9,340.00 USD
for 180 days, without any possibility of appeal or
anything else.

No surprise all the mass class suits that are prepared against Paypal,
and the thousands of "Paypal stole my money and ripped me off"
horror stories from all over youtube and Internet.

Paypal simply loves keeping seller's money for themselves, and
Paypal Problems, Information, Issues, Class Action Lawsuits - PayPal
and
PayPal Alternative - Pay Pal Lawsuits, PayPal Complaints & Fraud
and
PayPal - Horror Stories, Lawsuits, PayPal Problems & Information - PayPal Account
over 150,000 users horror stories with Paypal
are nothing compared to the cruel reality of dealing with
the COMPLETE DISHONESTY of the way Paypal does business.

They promise everything on the phone, just like identity thieves,
they ask for hundreds of stuff, and if you are naive enough to give
everything to them, they just keep all your money.

$9,340.00 USD is a small amount, and Paypal's greed is just
something that never changes, but the experience of being lied
straight in the face by paypal over and over and over again,
makes you 20 years older in just few days.

In 40 tyears of life, I have never ever dealt with any business partner more cheating,
lying and more dishonest than paypal.

Ironically enough, before this experience, I was one paypal naive fan,
and I ignored all the hundreds of warnings received before,
that is why I was naively keeping almost 10 thousand dollars
in my paypal account.

I know all of you have read something similar before. I also did.

But when it actually happens to you too, only
then you understand that there is actually no other business in the whole
wide world,
as cheating, as lying and as completely dishonest as Paypal.
#business #dishonest #horror #life #paypal #story #years
  • Profile picture of the author MateHegedus
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author rts2271
      I sweep every dime out. I dont leave a cent, not even for refunds. If I need money back in the account I will transfer it to Paypal. I've been down this road. I've even got my verified bank account setup to let transfers in from paypal but all transfers out must be approved.

      Caveat Emptor
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      Ralph Smith
      Mercenary development and deployment.

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      • Profile picture of the author DaveTaylor
        Originally Posted by rts2271 View Post

        I've even got my verified bank account setup to let transfers in from paypal but all transfers out must be approved.
        Could you or anyone else briefly tell me how to set this up?

        I haven't had this happen but I always withdraw quickly. I like my money in MY account.

        Thanks,

        David
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        • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
          Originally Posted by DaveTaylor View Post

          Could you or anyone else briefly tell me how to set this up?

          I haven't had this happen but I always withdraw quickly. I like my money in MY account.

          Thanks,

          David
          They will still be able to get in and take money that is not there. In your paypal account or in your bank account or in your pocket. They will take it. They aren't actually a bank. They are just people who we give money to and trust they will pass it on. Like all relationships they start all nice and flowery and then...
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  • Profile picture of the author Nisip
    Banned
    Yes, and always after they practically steal your identity, they are happy to change 180 degrees and to show that they have been lying all along and they tell you that "your account is high risk account and we cannot disclose why and how but we will keep your money for 180 days".

    All these while I never EVER had any problem with any customer,
    on any transaction EVER.

    Just before getting my scan of passport and drivers license, I remember Paypal
    customer service telling me again and reassuring me that "this is the very LAST piece of information we ever ask from you, before reinstalling total access to your account"!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Nisip
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post


    Paypal can go screw themselves.


    What most people are not aware are some facts:

    Everytime you do a currency conversion in Paypal, Paypal gives you always such extremely bad exchange rates, in which you lose other even 6.00%
    besides their 4.90% - 5.90% fees + 0.35 EUR for each single transaction.

    Bank wire transfers, even Western Union are, as comparison, about 3 - 10 times
    cheaper than Paypal...

    Anyway, their whole business model is based on straight out lies.

    They hold my money WITHOUT any reason, for 180 days, and they bank in the interest, without any base, reason, just absurdly because they can,
    and because PAYPAL ALWAYS ABUSES ITS MONOPOLY POSITION, on and on...
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    • Profile picture of the author Candela
      Originally Posted by Nisip View Post

      What most people are not aware are some facts:

      Everytime you do a currency conversion in Paypal, Paypal gives you always such extremely bad exchange rates, in which you lose other even 6.00%
      besides their 4.90% - 5.90% fees + 0.35 EUR for each single transaction.

      Bank wire transfers, even Western Union are, as comparison, about 3 - 10 times
      cheaper than Paypal...

      Anyway, their whole business model is based on straight out lies.

      They hold my money WITHOUT any reason, for 180 days, and they bank in the interest, without any base, reason, just absurdly because they can,
      and because PAYPAL ALWAYS ABUSES ITS MONOPOLY POSITION, on and on...
      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post4174969
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Originally Posted by MateHegedus View Post

    I feel for you. Same happened to me. Gave them literally all my details, Im surprised they didnt ask for a fully biography. That is why I always and immediately withdraw my money from paypal to my bank account.
    Originally Posted by rts2271 View Post

    I sweep every dime out. I dont leave a cent, not even for refunds. If I need money back in the account I will transfer it to Paypal. I've been down this road. I've even got my verified bank account setup to let transfers in from paypal but all transfers out must be approved.

    Caveat Emptor
    ... and you then wonder why Paypal might consider your business risky? Do you honestly think transferring money out of your account the minute you get it looks like normal business activity? Also leaving no money to cover any potential refunds? If you do those types of things then I don't want to ever hear you complain when your account gets shut down. I would also shut down your accounts if I were Paypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author AndreVas
    Hi Nisip,

    If PayPal accounts gets frozen/limited/suspended, call them. Don't speak with person who answers because they're low authority. Instead ask them to speak with supervisor.

    And tell supervisor you've been traveling, logged from 2 countries and your hard-earned funds have been unfairly frozen. Also that you've sent all the verification to PayPal, yet it's still locked. Forget about EMAIL when dealing with problems with PayPal.

    Act super cool like you're talking to your friend. (No desperation or rudeness.)

    And when you finish talking, end with a command. "So, I'm hoping you'll reinstate my PayPal account right now so I can continue my business operations. I'd appreciate it tons!".

    Sorry for your frustration.
    Signature

    "There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." - W. Shakespeare

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    • Profile picture of the author Nisip
      Banned
      Originally Posted by AndreVas View Post

      Hi Nisip,

      If PayPal accounts gets frozen/limited/suspended, call them. Don't speak with person who answers because they're low authority. Instead ask them to speak with supervisor.

      And tell supervisor you've been traveling, logged from 2 countries and your hard-earned funds have been unfairly frozen. Also that you've sent all the verification to PayPal, yet it's still locked. Forget about EMAIL when dealing with problems with PayPal.
      Hi Andre

      Thank you for your advices.

      They already DECIDED without any other possibility or consideration that they will keep my money, first they said 90 days, and then after 20 minutes,
      without ANYTHING happening in between these 2 emails, to lift that period to 180 days.

      Without having a single refund ever. And without having any problem ever.

      I mentioned that I spent probably more than 100 Euros on international phone calls to Paypal customer service.

      They ALWAYS promise everything will be fine, and it will be solved,
      and in 2 hours, I receive email that is much worse and asks for much more gratuitously documents which they don't really need.

      If they already have my national id and my passport, why would they need the drivers license?

      But still I gave it to them.

      In my full life I was never more DISGUSTED with any business as I am with Paypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Spyder77
    I've only had the horror story experience of paying their insane transaction fees. Getting away with charging a flat 10% rate, regardless of amount, on a person-to-person transaction is not only amazing to me that its not criminalized, but even more amazing to me that the banks and credit card companies, who are in basically the same line of business, haven't used their deep pockets to undercut paypal out of business.

    Gotta love a monopoly. At least if you happen to own the monopoly.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Originally Posted by Nisip View Post

    Recently, my Paypal account has been frozen. Because I was travelling
    and I logged in one day from France and then the next day from Switzerland.

    They wrote "suspicious activity" and froze my $9,340.00 USD
    in my account.
    I am wondering... would you also be here complaining if Paypal did nothing about the suspicious activity and it were in fact some hacker and they cleared out your account and you never saw any of that money again?

    Having someone log in from two different countries in a matter of days does look suspicious and they are right in wanting to investigate it further. That is not normal activity and it is your money they are trying to protect at the end of the day.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nisip
      Banned
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      I am wondering... would you also be here complaining if Paypal did nothing about the suspicious activity and it were in fact some hacker and they cleared out your account and you never saw any of that money again?
      WillR you are completely missing the point, sadly.

      I agree with the freezing, but what is completely absurd
      is that after I changed my passwords once again, at their request,
      and provided them with more documents that anyone else ever asked in my whole life, but
      paypal DECIDES TO KEEP ABUSIVELY ALL MY MONEY for themselves for 180 DAYS.

      How is this "protecting me", when they are stealing for 180 days my money,
      without ANY reason and without any right to do so?
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      • Profile picture of the author WillR
        Originally Posted by Nisip View Post

        How is this "protecting me", when they are stealing for 180 days my money, without ANY reason and without any right to do so?
        They are not stealing your money because you will get it back eventually and YOU gave them the right to do so when you signed up and agreed to their user agreement which states they can do this if they decide they want to.

        That's what I'm saying.

        Do I feel bad for you? Yes. But you also have to look at the other side of the argument.

        Originally Posted by DaveTaylor View Post

        I haven't had this happen but I always withdraw quickly. I like my money in MY account.

        Thanks,

        David
        A nice way to get your account flagged.
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  • Profile picture of the author Candela
    A friend of mine went through the same thing but there is an easy solution,go to the Better Business Bureau site for San Jose and file a complaint,it worked for them and you get to talk to Paypal executives instead of the underlings,the executives usually agree with whatever you suggest especially when the complaint is filed with the BBB of San Jose.

    You will notice thousands of other complaints with the BBB of san jose against Paypal when you look at their site but they have an A+ rating with the BBB because when you go through them paypal always responds quickly and resolves the issue.
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  • Profile picture of the author Candela
    From: http://success.grownupgeek.com/index...ased/#comments



    When I was informed that my PayPal account was “permanently limited” (aka: banned) and that PayPal would be holding my balance of $5,149 for six-months, I thought there was not much I could do. I appealed the decision to limit (ban) my account and PayPal denied it. Since I did not need the balance of $5,149 that PayPal was going to hold for 6 months I figured I would just wait it out (note that I say did not NEED it.. I want it, but I did not NEED it).


    But after seeing some of the comments that readers posted on my original “my PayPal account was limited” post I started to feel a bit victimized and angry, and a bit like PayPal was pushing me around and doing whatever they wanted with my balance. I decided that instead of feeling like I was going to just lay down and let PayPal rape me that I would fight back one last time.


    So based on a comment posted by Lucas explaining how he got his funds released after PayPal limited his account, I sat down and wrote this little email:
    RE: Case PP-xxx-yyy-zzz
    I am respectfully requesting that the hold on my funds/account be lifted. I
    am not necessarily requesting that my account be re-opened or allowed to
    continue to use the PayPal service, as I have already taken my business to
    your largest competitor and am no longer in need of PayPal’s services.
    I have previously requested a review/appeal of my case which was denied.

    Although I still disagree with the decision to deny my appeal I will abide by it – however because I feel that holding my funds for 180 days for a non-fraudulent violation of PayPal’s Acceptable Use Policy is excessive, and perhaps a punitive abuse of power, I will be filing complaints with the following agencies on Wednesday morning, April 23, 2008 if I am not satisfied with PayPal’s response to this request to release my funds:


    (agencies in the states that I reside or have a business presence in)


    The California Office of the Attorney General
    Consumer Alerts, Information & Complaints - California Dept. of Justice - Office of the Attorney General


    The Washington State Office of the Attorney General
    https://fortress.wa.gov/atg/formhand...laintForm.aspx


    The Florida Office of the Attorney General
    Florida Attorney General - Citizen Services Contact Form


    The Arizona Office of the Attorney General
    Florida Attorney General - Citizen Services Contact Form


    Additionally:
    The United States Federal Reserve
    What do I need to know before I file a complaint? | Federal Reserve Consumer Help
    (I understand that PayPal does not operate as a “bank” which is precisely
    why they may be interested in such complaints)


    The Better Business Bureau:
    https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/complaintlink.aspx


    All complaints will be filed “online” Wednesday morning April 23, 2008 and
    written copies will also be sent via certified postal mail.


    I understand PayPal’s need for holding funds for credit card chargeback purposes, however a review of my account history for the last year will reveal a very low chargeback rate as well as a very high customer-satisfaction rate. I feel that any reasonable person would conclude that holding my entire balance for 180 days is excessive and my be viewed by some as punitive or as already stated, an unnecessary abuse of power and perhaps even contrary to the laws of some states. That being said I have no problem with, and agree to leaving a balance of $500 for credit card chargeback purposes for the duration of the 180 days. I feel that this is a fair resolution while still leaving PayPal with the means to charge back any future credit card disputes to my account.


    Please be aware that replying with the standard “this is part of the terms of service that you agreed to” will not satisfy my request, or deter me from filing my complaints with the agencies listed above on the morning of Wednesday April 23. It will be up to those agencies to determine if PayPal is operating within the law, abusing power, etc. I am simply seeking a
    resolution that is fair and in the best interest of both parties.


    Thank you for your time again in looking into this matter.
    Case PP-xxx-yyy-zzz
    I addressed the email to the following addresses: account-review@paypal.com; aup@paypal.com; complaint-response@paypal.com; resolutions@paypal.com; escalations@paypal.com; complaints@paypal.com; RDutta@paypal.com; sthompson@paypal.com; crme@paypal.com; press@paypal.com; exec.relations@ebay.com
    Rdutta@paypal.com and Sthompson@paypal.com were as best as I could tell the guys in charge at PayPal, press@paypal.com and exec.relations@paypal.com appear to be their press people, and the others are all of the “escalation” email address that I could find – most of which I got from PayPalSucks.com. (see updated list of email address at the bottom of this post)


    I did my best to word the email as politely as I could and basically told them that they had 48 hours to respond or I would start complaining to whoever would listen. I spell-checked it and hit the SEND button at 1:48PM California time on Sunday afternoon.
    Approx 5 hours later, at just a little after 7PM California time on Sunday night my phone rang. CallerID said it was from the 402 area code and listed it simply as “Nebraska”.. Hmm.. Who could be calling me from Nebraska this late on a Sunday evening? Could it be Shoemoney calling or might it be someone from PayPal headquarters working late??


    Sure enough, when I picked up the phone a very nice lady at the other end explained that she was calling from PayPal regarding the email I had sent earlier in the day. She had reviewed my account, agreed that my chargebacks had been virtually zero over the previous year, and that although PayPal would not be re-opening (or un-banning) my account, they would be transferring $5,000 of my $5,149 balance into my bank account. They would hold the remaining $149 for the balance of the 180 days at which time it would automatically be transferred into my bank account. Heck, that’s better than I had asked for in my email!


    So – although having my PayPal account banned has been a huge inconvenience, being forced to switch to Google Checkout is still working to my advantage (making me more money), and now that PayPal will be releasing all but $149 of my funds, I can say that I’m pretty happy.


    Now, if you’ve been banned by Paypal, before you go copying and pasting my email to try and get your funds released remember that I have had my PayPal account for a few years with virtually zero complaints and very few disputes or chargebacks. If you have been involved in fraudulent activity, been ripping people off, selling body parts, etc, you probably wont make out as well as I have (nor should you). However if your account has been in good standing and you have a low rate of disputes you may be able to get your funds released before the 180 day period that PayPal imposes by letting them know that you just wont stand for it and that you will complain to anyone that will listen.


    W00t!
    UPDATE: Thanks to “PayPal Hater”, here is the 2010 list of email address for PayPal executives:
    moldenburg@paypal.com,
    sthompson@paypal.com,
    mhentges@paypal.com,
    crme@paypal.com,
    appeal@paypal.com,
    harbor1@paypal.com,
    account-review@paypal.com,
    ppelce@paypal.com,
    cardreview@paypal.com,
    complaint-response@paypal.com,
    abuse@paypal.com,
    Europeanservices@paypal.com,
    resolutions@paypal.com,
    appeals@paypal.com,
    compliance@paypal.com,
    escalations@paypal.com,
    webform@paypal.com,
    service@paypal.com,
    spoof@paypal.com,
    complaints@paypal.com,
    aup@paypal.com,
    press@paypal.com,
    apires@paypal.com,
    chargebackresponse@paypal.com,
    pending_reversal@paypal.com,
    global2@paypal.com,
    intl@paypal.com,
    ppe_courtesycredit@paypal.com,
    BoEappeal@paypal.com
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  • Profile picture of the author globalpro
    Didn't you post before about the 'horrors of PayPal'?

    If I remember, you were going to stop using them. What happened?

    I am with Will on this one. PayPal would have been wrong no matter what they did, but I know that they do have flags go up on accessing from different countries/IP addresses.

    Did you make them aware you would be traveling and accessing from other places? I know others that have without any issues.

    Just some thoughts.

    Thanks,

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      One of the first posts here after the OP joined (2 years ago) was this:

      "The whole truth about Paypal, and the website with much more than thousands of stories from Paypal users is" (followed by a list of anti-paypal sites).

      In addition, there have been many posts by the OP this year with statements about problems with paypal, claims of accounts being limited, unfair treatment, etc.

      It could be this was one problem too many. If you have repeated problems there's a point at which a company may decide they no longer want your business even if you have no refund requests.

      Could that be the case here?

      kay
      Signature
      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

      I'm going to work on being less condescending
      (Condescending means to talk down to people)
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      • Profile picture of the author globalpro
        Kay,

        Exactly how I remember it.

        Thanks,

        John

        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        One of the first posts here after the OP joined (2 years ago) was this:

        "The whole truth about Paypal, and the website with much more than thousands of stories from Paypal users is" (followed by a list of anti-paypal sites).

        In addition, there have been many posts by the OP this year with statements about problems with paypal, claims of accounts being limited, unfair treatment, etc.

        It could be this was one problem too many. If you have repeated problems there's a point at which a company may decide they no longer want your business even if you have no refund requests.

        Could that be the case here?

        kay
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    Am I the only person on the freakin' planet who knows how
    to pick up a telephone and call Pay Pal when I'm about to do
    something on my PP account that is unusual?

    You name a scenario that someone has complained of getting
    shut down or limited for and I've done it with absolutely no
    problems since the day Pay Pal opened for business. That, of
    course, excludes those who've been terminated for engaging
    in unsavaory activities... I haven't done that... lol.

    The difference is I didn't wait to get shut down or limited before
    calling them. I also didn't think anyone on an internet forum could
    cure my Pay Pal problem.

    I called them at least a week in advance and explained what
    I was about to do... influx of money due to new product launch...
    traveling and will be accessing account from various locations
    from time to time... all that and more.

    The people at Pay Pal don't have any crystal balls... they aren't
    able to read your mind through the internet. They're just a collection
    of people just like you and me who have a job to do under a set of
    rules they don't necessarily make. They aren't trying to steal your
    money... they're trying to protect it from those who would.

    Next time you're going to do something out of the ordinary that
    involves your Pay Pal account give them a call in advance. If everyone
    did that we'd see far fewer of these threads.

    Tsnyder
    Signature
    If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Sorrell
      For those of you who are bizarrely justifying paypal's actions here then please undertand this.

      In the US they are licensed as a money transmitter and so cannot legally hold anyone's funds for more than 10 days, yet routinely hold people's funds for whatever reason they like for 180 days. This IS ILLEGAL. If you feel they are right in acting above the law then good for you.

      In the EU, paypal is licensed as a financial institution, just like any bank and also, cannot legally hold anyone's money for anything like 180 days. Again, what they're doing IS ILLEGAL. What bank can freeze your funds for 180 days without the intervention of top law enforcement agencies or if you're seen as a big time money launderer or suspected terrorist?

      The answer = none - but of course it's the user's fault.... Give it a rest. Paypal are out and out crooks. Just check the law of the land and anyone can see what they're doing is totally illegal.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by Chris Sorrell View Post

        For those of you who are bizarrely justifying paypal's actions here then please undertand this.

        In the US they are licensed as a money transmitter and so cannot legally hold anyone's funds for more than 10 days, yet routinely hold people's funds for whatever reason they like for 180 days. This IS ILLEGAL. If you feel they are right in acting above the law then good for you.

        In the EU, paypal is licensed as a financial institution, just like any bank and also, cannot legally hold anyone's money for anything like 180 days. Again, what they're doing IS ILLEGAL. What bank can freeze your funds for 180 days without the intervention of top law enforcement agencies or if you're seen as a big time money launderer or suspected terrorist?

        The answer = none - but of course it's the user's fault.... Give it a rest. Paypal are out and out crooks. Just check the law of the land and anyone can see what they're doing is totally illegal.
        I guess it must be all one big conspiracy... law enforcement
        officials are in on the scam! Where is the outrage? Better yet,
        if PP is, indeed, engaged in illegal activity on a massive scale
        where are the legal complaints and judgments from private lawsuits?
        Signature
        If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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        • Profile picture of the author Candela
          Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

          I guess it must be all one big conspiracy... law enforcement
          officials are in on the scam! Where is the outrage? Better yet,
          if PP is, indeed, engaged in illegal activity on a massive scale
          where are the legal complaints and judgments from private lawsuits?
          The first is a Consent Decree signed by PayPal with the Attorney General of New York regarding PayPal highly questionable business practices, in addition to the $1.7 million dollar settlement they paid with the Attorney General of Florida's office.
          http://whiteelephantmedia.com/resour...ent.decree.pdf
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        • Profile picture of the author Candela
          Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

          I guess it must be all one big conspiracy... law enforcement
          officials are in on the scam! Where is the outrage? Better yet,
          if PP is, indeed, engaged in illegal activity on a massive scale
          where are the legal complaints and judgments from private lawsuits?
          A Consent Decree signed by PayPal with the Attorney General of New York regarding PayPal highly questionable business practices, in addition to the $1.7 million dollar settlement they paid with the Attorney General of Florida's office.

          http://whiteelephantmedia.com/resour...ent.decree.pdf
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      • Profile picture of the author WillR
        Originally Posted by Chris Sorrell View Post

        For those of you who are bizarrely justifying paypal's actions here then please undertand this.

        In the US they are licensed as a money transmitter and so cannot legally hold anyone's funds for more than 10 days, yet routinely hold people's funds for whatever reason they like for 180 days. This IS ILLEGAL. If you feel they are right in acting above the law then good for you.

        In the EU, paypal is licensed as a financial institution, just like any bank and also, cannot legally hold anyone's money for anything like 180 days. Again, what they're doing IS ILLEGAL. What bank can freeze your funds for 180 days without the intervention of top law enforcement agencies or if you're seen as a big time money launderer or suspected terrorist?

        The answer = none - but of course it's the user's fault.... Give it a rest. Paypal are out and out crooks. Just check the law of the land and anyone can see what they're doing is totally illegal.
        Ok, so the fact that when you signed up to Paypal you SHOULD have read the user agreement that says, and I quote...

        "We may close, suspend, or limit your access to your Account or the PayPal Services, and/or limit access to your funds for up to 180 Days if you violate this Agreement, the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy, or any other agreement you enter into with PayPal."

        I rest my case. If you agree to something you can't then get annoyed when it is put into action. Well actually you CAN get annoyed, but no one is going to listen.
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        • Profile picture of the author Candela
          Originally Posted by WillR View Post

          Ok, so the fact that when you signed up to Paypal you SHOULD have read the user agreement that says, and I quote...

          "We may close, suspend, or limit your access to your Account or the PayPal Services, and/or limit access to your funds for up to 180 Days if you violate this Agreement, the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy, or any other agreement you enter into with PayPal."

          I rest my case. If you agree to something you can't then get annoyed when it is put into action. Well actually you CAN get annoyed, but no one is going to listen.

          "PayPal frequently locks customers' accounts if it suspects that fraud played a part in a transaction, even if the amount in doubt is a fraction of the total amount in an account, said Gail Koff, an attorney and founding partner of Jacoby & Meyers, which filed the lawsuit. The result is that customers can't accept any more payments via PayPal, pay anyone through the service, or withdraw any of their money until PayPal clears the transaction. That can often take days or even weeks, customers charge. ?Under the guise of needing to protect consumers from fraud, they themselves are guilty of fraudulent abuse of their customers,' Koff said."
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          • Profile picture of the author WillR
            Originally Posted by Candela View Post

            "PayPal frequently locks customers' accounts if it suspects that fraud played a part in a transaction, even if the amount in doubt is a fraction of the total amount in an account, said Gail Koff, an attorney and founding partner of Jacoby & Meyers, which filed the lawsuit. The result is that customers can't accept any more payments via PayPal, pay anyone through the service, or withdraw any of their money until PayPal clears the transaction. That can often take days or even weeks, customers charge. ?Under the guise of needing to protect consumers from fraud, they themselves are guilty of fraudulent abuse of their customers,' Koff said."
            That means nothing. Read their user agreement again and case closed.

            Paypal would not have those terms in their user agreement if they were not legally able to enforce them.

            All you are quoting is some lawyer wanting to be the next Erin Brockovich.

            Good luck to them... they will need it.
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            • Profile picture of the author Candela
              Originally Posted by WillR View Post

              Means nothing. Read their user agreement again and case closed.
              Paypal User Agreement does not trump State or Federal law. Courts have actually stated this fact,see:

              Consent Decree signed by PayPal with the Attorney General of New York regarding PayPal highly questionable business practices, in addition to the $1.7 million dollar settlement they paid with the Attorney General of Florida's office.

              http://whiteelephantmedia.com/resour...ent.decree.pdf
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              • Profile picture of the author WillR
                Originally Posted by Candela View Post

                Paypal User Agreement does not trump State or Federal law. Courts have actually stated this fact,see:

                Consent Decree signed by PayPal with the Attorney General of New York regarding PayPal highly questionable business practices, in addition to the $1.7 million dollar settlement they paid with the Attorney General of Florida’s office.

                http://whiteelephantmedia.com/resour...ent.decree.pdf
                So I guess if it is illegal that is why they are still doing it right? There have been that many cases so far that if they were doing something illegal the problem would have been resolved by now AND they wouldn't be allowed to have those terms in their user agreement any longer.

                The fact their user agreement still has those terms AND they are still freezing peoples money everyday of the week tells me they are clearly entitled to do so.
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                • Profile picture of the author Candela
                  Originally Posted by WillR View Post

                  So I guess if it is illegal that is why they are still doing it right? There have been that many cases so far that if they were doing something illegal the problem would have been resolved by now AND they wouldn't be allowed to have those terms in their user agreement any longer.

                  The fact their user agreement still has those terms AND they are still freezing peoples money everyday of the week tells me they are entitled to do so.

                  According to PayPal accepting their ToS (Terms of Service) in effect means you waive your rights to credit card consumer protection laws if you want to use their service, and that you may not issue a chargeback for unauthorized use of your credit card and PayPal account, or if you do, then they have the right to limit your account. You think this is legal?
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                  • Profile picture of the author WillR
                    Originally Posted by Candela View Post

                    According to PayPal accepting their ToS (Terms of Service) in effect means you waive your rights to credit card consumer protection laws if you want to use their service, and that you may not issue a chargeback for unauthorized use of your credit card and PayPal account, or if you do, then they have the right to limit your account. You think this is legal?
                    We are talking about one thing here - the limiting of accounts. This is a pointless argument. If what they were doing were illegal they wouldn't be doing it anymore. You, as the user, accept their terms when you sign up and if they enforce them you are entitled to get angry and annoyed but unfortunately you don't have much of a leg to stand on.

                    I am not saying I agree with what they do - but it is what it is.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Candela
                      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

                      We are talking about one thing here - the limiting of accounts. This is a pointless argument. If what they were doing were illegal they wouldn't be doing it anymore. You, as the user, accept their terms when you sign up and if they enforce them you are entitled to get angry and annoyed but unfortunately you don't have much of a leg to stand on.

                      I am not saying I agree with what they do - but it is what it is.
                      When you say it is what it is that is like saying they do it so it must be legal. There are stories in the news all the time about companies carrying out illegal activities for years before having to account for it. Remember Mr. Madoff?

                      Their terms of service are not completely disclosed upon signup and some key "conditions" are not disclosed. They fail to mention their total lack of security to prevent your account from being compromised by phishing & spoof sites.


                      That if your account is accessed by a criminal using one of these methods, PayPal will hold YOU monetarily & legally responsible! Also, no place do they openly tell potential members that their money is 100% at risk. That PayPal can, will, and has in the past, completely cleaned out customers' accounts, (including your checking or savings account) with no appeals process available. Instead they bury in the fine print of 37 pages of their "Terms of Service" (ToS) where they disclose to you that PayPal can close your account for any reason what-so-ever, or no reason, and then you have to wait 180 days to get your money.

                      If PayPal feels your actions are questionable, PayPal is the investigator, judge, jury and executioner. "Telling your side" of what happened, in most cases seems to be irrelevant. They also refuse to provide you with the details of their investigation and withhold documents they relied upon to make their decisions. Your only contact will be an email that says:

                      Thank you for contacting PayPal. We apologize for the delay in respondingto your service request.

                      After review, the decision has been made to keep your account locked. This decision cannot be appealed.

                      If you have any further questions, please reply to this email.
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                      • Profile picture of the author WillR
                        Originally Posted by Candela View Post

                        When you say it is what it is that is like saying they do it so it must be legal. There are stories in the news all the time about companies carrying out illegal activities for years before having to account for it. Remember Mr. Madoff?

                        [FONT=arial][SIZE=3]
                        I get all that and you can keep posting excerpts all day long... but where will it get you? Where has it got anyone?

                        Nowhere.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Candela
                          Originally Posted by WillR View Post

                          I get all that and you can keep posting excerpts all day long... but where will it get you? Where has it got anyone?

                          Nowhere.
                          Spreading awareness is actually how quite a few class action suits have started buddy.
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                • Profile picture of the author RussRuffino
                  Originally Posted by WillR View Post

                  So I guess if it is illegal that is why they are still doing it right? There have been that many cases so far that if they were doing something illegal the problem would have been resolved by now AND they wouldn't be allowed to have those terms in their user agreement any longer.

                  The fact their user agreement still has those terms AND they are still freezing peoples money everyday of the week tells me they are clearly entitled to do so.
                  Will, you're dead wrong on this. First of all, PayPal's terms of service have already been ruled "unconscionable" once in the state of California. They had to radically change their Terms of Service and pay out a $9.25 million judgment. So, just because you agree to a ToS doesn't make it legal - you and I can agree that you can come to my house and kill my dog, but it would still be illegal.

                  Second, lawsuits like this take a LONG time. They'll file change of venues, motions to dismiss, and keep everyone losing their mind on paperwork for as long as they can because as long as they're holding you're money, they are collecting interest on that money.

                  So, please - stop being their champion on this. Just because they're doing it doesn't mean they're allowed to do it.

                  You might as well have said, "Hey, Enzyte's Terms of Service CLEARLY state that they will rebill you until you send them a doctor's note saying that the product is not working. It's in their ToS, so it MUST be legal, right?"

                  Except as soon as the feds find out what's going on, it's not legal.

                  Russ
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                  • Profile picture of the author WillR
                    Originally Posted by RussRuffino View Post

                    Will, you're dead wrong on this. First of all, PayPal's terms of service have already been ruled "unconscionable" once in the state of California. They had to radically change their Terms of Service and pay out a $9.25 million judgment. So, just because you agree to a ToS doesn't make it legal - you and I can agree that you can come to my house and kill my dog, but it would still be illegal.

                    Second, lawsuits like this take a LONG time. They'll file change of venues, motions to dismiss, and keep everyone losing their mind on paperwork for as long as they can because as long as they're holding you're money, they are collecting interest on that money.

                    So, please - stop being their champion on this. Just because they're doing it doesn't mean they're allowed to do it.

                    You might as well have said, "Hey, Enzyte's Terms of Service CLEARLY state that they will rebill you until you send them a doctor's note saying that the product is not working. It's in their ToS, so it MUST be legal, right?"

                    Except as soon as the feds find out what's going on, it's not legal.

                    Russ
                    Once again I did not say I agree with it and I did not say they will never have to change their terms. What I have said is their terms CURRENTLY state that and those terms are the terms you see when you sign up for an account. If you don't want to abide by those terms then you don't sign up for an account.

                    Who knows what will happen in the future but as it stands, their terms state the 180 day period and that is why they are enforcing it upon people. Is it right? I am not a lawyer and I bet most others in this thread are also not so who really knows. All I know is they are still doing it to this day.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                    My crime? I honoured three refund requests in one day.
                    I doubt that was a problem - it seems the problem you are complaining about is paypal did not want your account to go into the negative.

                    Was the problem the refunds - or that you didn't have the money to cover them? You don't run negative balances without consequences.

                    When you say it is what it is that is like saying they do it so it must be legal.
                    Unless you are a lawyer, don't argue the law. You are going way farther than the problem discussed in this thread.

                    Simple fact is - when you have someone posting who has posted multiple times in the past about having paypal problems...there's probably more to the story on one side or the other.

                    kay
                    Signature
                    Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                    I'm going to work on being less condescending
                    (Condescending means to talk down to people)
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                      I doubt that was a problem - it seems the problem you are complaining about is paypal did not want your account to go into the negative.

                      Was the problem the refunds - or that you didn't have the money to cover them? You don't run negative balances without consequences.

                      kay
                      No, there was plenty of money in the account both in Paypal and in my bank. They just didn't like the fact that I made three refunds in one day. It wasn't even immediate. One day I just logged in after getting some errors and found the limitation. After enquiring I was told "you made 3 refunds on this day (weeks ago) - what was all that about?".

                      Back and forth they wanted this and then that and then a tracking number for a subscription...etc until it was all finally sorted. For me the damage was not so much the thousands they froze but the ability to conduct business that killed it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Nisip
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Chris Sorrell View Post

        For those of you who are bizarrely justifying paypal's actions here then please undertand this.

        In the US they are licensed as a money transmitter and so cannot legally hold anyone's funds for more than 10 days, yet routinely hold people's funds for whatever reason they like for 180 days. This IS ILLEGAL. If you feel they are right in acting above the law then good for you.

        In the EU, paypal is licensed as a financial institution, just like any bank and also, cannot legally hold anyone's money for anything like 180 days. Again, what they're doing IS ILLEGAL. What bank can freeze your funds for 180 days without the intervention of top law enforcement agencies or if you're seen as a big time money launderer or suspected terrorist?

        The answer = none - but of course it's the user's fault.... Give it a rest. Paypal are out and out crooks. Just check the law of the land and anyone can see what they're doing is totally illegal.
        Your post must be made a sticky.

        If I would have read all these things that hapenned to other warriors,
        for sure I would have never been so blind and completely foolish
        and leave almost 10 thousand dollars in my paypal account.

        I am not a lawyer, and unfortunately the loss from USD devaluation in the next 6 months + the lost interest from my frozen money
        is less than 2,000 USD, and this money is not enough to pay a good lawyer to handle this situation on my part.

        But something must be done.

        Paypal should not continue destroy people's lives and businesses
        like they do now...
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    They are a thieving mob of ****s! Same thing happened to me. I was not able to recover. Literally lost hundreds of thousands. Took me almost 3 months to get my money. By then everything had fallen apart. Had to start from scratch again.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by MrBaz View Post

      They are a thieving mob of ****s! Same thing happened to me. I was not able to recover. Literally lost hundreds of thousands. Took me almost 3 months to get my money. By then everything had fallen apart. Had to start from scratch again.
      Please tell me you didn't have a business generating hundreds of
      thousands of dollars and you didn't have more than one way to collect
      payments.

      Seriously...

      Pay Pal wasn't your main problem.

      Tsnyder
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      If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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      • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
        Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

        Please tell me you didn't have a business generating hundreds of
        thousands of dollars and you didn't have more than one way to collect
        payments.

        Seriously...

        Pay Pal wasn't your main problem.

        Tsnyder
        No, actually smart arse comments were also part of my problem.

        I was collecting direct into my bank account as well but no one wants to deal with the rinky dink AlertPays of this world and have you ever tried running a subscription site using direct deposit? I guess not. I have and it does not work nor could it ever.

        I was collecting subscriptions and was in the middle of a large launch that I had spent a lot of money on and was about to bring at least 100k in sales and more in subscriptions (stock market product). As a new business it's impossible to get a merchant account to collect credit cards so yes Paypal is often the only choice many of us have.
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      • Profile picture of the author TechLife
        Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

        Please tell me you didn't have a business generating hundreds of
        thousands of dollars and you didn't have more than one way to collect
        payments.

        Seriously...

        Pay Pal wasn't your main problem.

        Tsnyder
        What other payment options would you suggest as best Tsnyder?
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    • Profile picture of the author Nisip
      Banned
      Originally Posted by MrBaz View Post

      They are a thieving mob of ****s! Same thing happened to me. I was not able to recover. Literally lost hundreds of thousands. Took me almost 3 months to get my money.
      You were lucky. It looks like I will be waiting 6 months.

      Even if they have all my documents scanned on their desk,
      even if there was never any refund request, even if clients satisfaction is 100.00%.

      Paypal has been constanly LYING straight in our phone discussions,
      always promising everything will be fine, just one more little document needed.

      And after they got all the documents, they decided to keep my money without reason.

      Paypal LIES straight to your face, and then keeps your money.

      But yes, I WILL GO ALL THE WAY, I will put complaints with every agency out there, because Paypal's model of business is simply shameful and
      sick. Paypal constaly LIES, LIES and then lies more.

      Their model of business seems to be based only on dishonesty.
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      • Profile picture of the author Candela
        Originally Posted by Nisip View Post

        You were lucky. It looks like I will be waiting 6 months.

        Even if they have all my documents scanned on their desk,
        even if there was never any refund request, even if clients satisfaction is 100.00%.

        Paypal has been constanly LYING straight in our phone discussions,
        always promising everything will be fine, just one more little document needed.

        And after they got all the documents, they decided to keep my money without reason.

        Paypal LIES straight to your face, and then keeps your money.

        But yes, I WILL GO ALL THE WAY, I will put complaints with every agency out there, because Paypal's model of business is simply shameful and
        sick. Paypal constaly LIES, LIES and then lies more.

        Their model of business seems to be based only on dishonesty.
        I wrote this above but it bears repeating:

        A friend of mine went through the same thing but there is an easy solution,go to the Better Business Bureau site for San Jose and file a complaint,it worked for them and you get to talk to Paypal executives instead of the underlings,the executives usually agree with whatever you suggest especially when the complaint is filed with the BBB of San Jose.

        You will notice thousands of other complaints with the BBB of san jose against Paypal when you look at their site but they have an A+ rating with the BBB because when you go through them paypal always responds quickly and resolves the issue.
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  • Profile picture of the author Candela
    Paypal has wiped out a few medium sized companies,for example:

    White Elephant: White Elephant Media - White Elephant Media

    Our PayPal/eBay account was closed November 18, 2009, after selling successfully on eBay for almost 6 years. Several weeks ago, we were asked by PayPal to give them a “deposit” so we could keep accepting PayPal payments. (And if you sell or buy on eBay, you know you have to use PayPal). At first PayPal asked for us to pay $212k into this deposit account. They expected it to be funded in about 3 months. On November 13th, 2009 PayPal decided to increase the amount they wanted from us. Basically, in order for us to keep selling like we have been for years, PayPal increased the amount they needed in our “deposit” account to $600k. (Many eBay sellers are facing this type of problem).

    They closed our account after we indicated it would be impossible to come up with $600,000 in about 6 weeks during the holidays. Why they wanted more than a half a million dollars and when it would be repaid if ever was exceptionally nebulous and never explained to us. 48 hours after we were locked out of our account, there was well over $230k in the account. That is the money we use to pay for our merchandise and postage. We were denied access to it and therefore we are unable to operate.

    Imagine if you own your home and have been making payments on it regularly for 6 years and all of a sudden your bank says you have to pay an extra year’s worth of payments next month or you will be evicted from your home. We don’t feel this is right and we are working to get this corrected.

    The minute we found out that PayPal and eBay froze our accounts we stopped selling and stopped shipping in our 4 eBay brands; White Elephant Media, Outpost Media Deals, Mediamusement and Moon Base Media. With that said, several days later we noticed sales were continuing on eBay under our names, but it wasn’t us, we didn’t authorize this and we didn’t receive any money. We have no idea how eBay and PayPal are doing this. We notified PayPal/eBay that it was going on and that we did not have product to ship, but to this day sales are still occurring. Please understand we have nothing to do with these sales.

    We are devastated. We were forced to lay off our 20-person staff in November. And we know there are customers out there that are waiting for their products. We are trying to solve this as we speak.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
      Originally Posted by Candela View Post

      Paypal has wiped out a few medium sized companies,for example:

      White Elephant: White Elephant Media - White Elephant Media
      Do some digging on Google, and you'll find out why PayPal wasn't too keen on White Elephant Media. There appears to be a lot more to it than what the company posted on their website.
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      • Profile picture of the author Candela
        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

        Do some digging on Google, and you'll find out why PayPal wasn't too keen on White Elephant Media. There appears to be a lot more to it than what the company posted on their website.
        You have a link?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jack Duncan
    Still, Paypal decided today that my account is
    "high risk" because I logged in from two different neighbouring countries
    and because of this, they keep my $9,340.00 USD
    for 180 days, without any possibility of appeal or
    anything else.
    That sounds really bizaar.

    I've had them limit my account in the past when I logged in from another country while traveling...and all it ever took to get everything back to normal was a phone call to the reps.

    Have they given an explanation of exactly what they were planning on doing in those 180 days? Or what they needed 180 days for?

    Seems really odd.

    Am I the only person on the freakin' planet who knows how
    to pick up a telephone and call Pay Pal when I'm about to do
    something on my PP account that is unusual?
    This definitely can help.

    But I have called them before in the past and specifically asked them to place a note
    on the account that I would be logging in from countries X, Y, and Z over the next 30 days and still, sometimes, they end up limiting the account.

    The good news is that when you call back the second time, you can reference the first call and they are usually very apologetic and get everything back up and running in a matter of minutes.

    So it this definitely helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author marieleo
    have not had a bad experience with them yet but heard about many. Mama didn't raise no fool. Already looking for an alternative source.

    Any suggestions?
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    "Drop useless cookie cutter marketing and learn to brand yourself online.
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    • Profile picture of the author eresources
      WOW!! So sorry to hear about what you're going through!

      I remember when Paypal first came online... I was soooo
      skeptic about joining them, but after a while I finally did
      because they were the easiest to use for accepting payments.
      I think that's why so many people use them IMHO.

      I sure hope everything works out for you!

      Audra
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  • Profile picture of the author Candela
    there is also this:

    Thank you for your inquiry regarding PayPal. We recently filed a lawsuit on behalf of people who have had money held by PayPal without justification. I have attached a copy of that complaint for your review. I would like to get some background information from you to add you to our database:


    1) What is your address and phone number?
    2) How long and how frequent have you been using paypal as a seller?
    3) When did Paypal first start holding funds?
    4) Are they still holding funds?
    5) How much money is being held?
    6) Did Paypal say how long they will hold the funds for and/or why they are holding funds?
    7) Do you have any emails or messages from Paypal regarding the hold on your account that you can send us?
    8 ) Before PayPal started holding your funds, did you have any complaints filed against you/what was your “rating” (e.g. top seller, 99% positive feedback, etc)?


    Please feel free to contact us by phone or email if you have any additional questions.


    Vincent Francone
    Legal Assistant
    FREED & WEISS LLC
    111 West Washington Street
    Suite 1331
    Chicago, IL 60602


    Toll Free: 866-779-9610
    Firm Phone: 312-220-0000
    Firm Fax: 312-220-7777
    http://www.freedweiss.com



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  • Profile picture of the author funkynassau
    I guess you had your reasons buy why did you have such a big amount of money in your acct? You should have removed it regularly and fully.

    I'm sorry this happened to you, have you consulted your own lawyer?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Kostic
    I've lost a lot of money this way. Lesson learned. DO NOT log into your paypal account using a different ip than the one you used to sign up for it!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    I bet many suckers also don't know that even if you take the money out of paypal and withdraw it into your bank and then take it out of your bank account so that your paypal and bank accounts are totally empty Paypal can STILL reach back into your bank account and take it back (even 90 days after the fact!) even if it's not there and the bank will give it to them and you will owe the bank for a default if your account goes into negative.

    Ask me how I know.
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    • Profile picture of the author astrutz
      Yeah I know what you mean. And Paypal only lets you create 2 paypal accounts per social security number. Both of mine were frozen for things like yours. Sooo now I have to create stealth paypal accounts, pisses me off. Too much hassle.
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    • Profile picture of the author DaveTaylor
      Originally Posted by MrBaz View Post

      I bet many suckers also don't know that even if you take the money out of paypal and withdraw it into your bank and then take it out of your bank account so that your paypal and bank accounts are totally empty Paypal can STILL reach back into your bank account and take it back (even 90 days after the fact!) even if it's not there and the bank will give it to them and you will owe the bank for a default if your account goes into negative.

      Ask me how I know.
      How do you know?
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      • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
        Originally Posted by DaveTaylor View Post

        How do you know?
        It happened to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Magnificentpower
      Originally Posted by MrBaz View Post

      I bet many suckers also don't know that even if you take the money out of paypal and withdraw it into your bank and then take it out of your bank account so that your paypal and bank accounts are totally empty Paypal can STILL reach back into your bank account and take it back (even 90 days after the fact!) even if it's not there and the bank will give it to them and you will owe the bank for a default if your account goes into negative.

      Ask me how I know.
      How do you know?Did it happened to your account???:confused:
      How did you resolved it?I'm kind of panic now.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
        Originally Posted by Magnificentpower View Post

        How do you know?Did it happened to your account???:confused:
        How did you resolved it?I'm kind of panic now.
        I got it all back in the end (I had to swear like a angry drunken sailor) but by then it had destroyed my business. There was nothing but smouldering ashes left by the time they had finished with me. My crime? I honoured three refund requests in one day. That's all it took for me to lose my 6 figure business. That's what I'm doing back in here.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nisip
      Banned
      Originally Posted by MrBaz View Post

      even if you take the money out of paypal and withdraw it into your bank and then take it out of your bank account so that your paypal and bank accounts are totally empty Paypal can STILL reach back into your bank account and take it back (even 90 days after the fact!) even if it's not there and the bank will give it to them and you will owe the bank for a default if your account goes into negative.

      Ask me how I know.
      What hapenned to you also?

      I was stupid enough to give Paypal total access to my bank account.

      However I NEVER HAD ONE SINGLE REFUND REQUEST OR ONE SINGLE COMPLAIN from any customer ever.

      But STILL, Paypal froze my money and said they will be keeping them for 180 days and then they are closing my account !!!
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      • Profile picture of the author IMWinner
        That sounds spooky. I have just opened an account with them. I will have to approach this situation with caution. Thanks for this informative post.
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  • Profile picture of the author Candela
    There are thousands of detailed horror stories posted all over the web about people being Robbed, Abused, Unfairly Treated, Lied To And Scammed By Paypal. If you don't believe it, just type in (PayPal froze my account) into any major search engine. You'll discover thousands of businesses that were ruined by PayPal (And these are only the ones that decided to post their stories online.)

    Everyone who gets burned by PayPal thought it couldn't happen to them, and then it did. I suggest getting a Real Merchant Account so this won't happen to you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nisip
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Candela View Post

      There are thousands of detailed horror stories posted all over the web about people being Robbed, Abused, Unfairly Treated, Lied To And Scammed By Paypal. If you don't believe it, just type in (PayPal froze my account) into any major search engine. You'll discover thousands of businesses that were ruined by PayPal (And these are only the ones that decided to post their stories online.)
      Usually less than 1% of people who have this hapenned to them,
      decide to post online about it.

      Simply because the bitter feeling and disgust about what Paypal does is so big,
      that you just want to close your laptop and go away offline for few months, because it is that stressfull and that annoying
      and horrible to be lied and cheated in such way, straight in the face, by Paypal.

      However this time, I will fight.
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  • Profile picture of the author traficmaster
    I feel you OP,the funny thing is that they EU support team is in Luxembourg...i have spent like 25€ calling them to resolve one problem..
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    The freezing of the OP's account by PayPal was for his own protection. But what is completely unreasonable was why it was frozen for 180 days. I just cannot see any justifiable reason. For all I care, the TOS can state they can murder you and your family if they want. But is it legal? I highly doubt it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nisip
      Banned
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      But what is completely unreasonable was why it was frozen for 180 days. I just cannot see any justifiable reason. For all I care, the TOS can state they can murder you and your family if they want. But is it legal? I highly doubt it.
      The Terms of Service cannot be above the law.

      But paypal abuses its international status as the number 1 payment processor in the world.

      Paypal constantly abuses its monopoly situation, and this is the result of this.

      I have been writing 1 time in the past about my worries regarding paypal,
      but I never expected to be treated and lied like that, straight in the face,
      on and on, by Paypal's customer service and Paypal's workers.

      The dishonesty and absurdity of Paypal's behaviour and holding my money
      WITHOUT ANY REASON for 180 days just gives me a sick feeling in my stomach
      of total disgust.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
        Originally Posted by Nisip View Post

        ...gives me a sick feeling in my stomach
        of total disgust.
        I know how you feel. I was angry with the whole world for months. As my business fell to bits around me I was ropeable, inconsolable and angrier than I have ever been. Still am I think.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Some people whine and some make money. So it goes...
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    I feel your pain and I am sorry this happened to you. This happened to me many years ago, but fortunately I had withdrawn all of my money just prior to them locking it. But being without my account made life tough for a while.

    Since that happened to me, I don't leave money in PayPal any more. You never know when they are going to pull one of these tricks.
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    Tim Pears

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    • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
      Originally Posted by timpears View Post

      I feel your pain and I am sorry this happened to you. This happened to me many years ago, but fortunately I had withdrawn all of my money just prior to them locking it. But being without my account made life tough for a while.

      Since that happened to me, I don't leave money in PayPal any more. You never know when they are going to pull one of these tricks.
      Don't forget (as I mentioned above), they can still reach into your bank account and take anything back they like for up to 90 days after the transaction - even if it's not there.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jamie Charles
    What a nightmare, I process one of my membership sites through paypal and I'm thinking about moving from it.

    The stories lately are just horrible!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
      Originally Posted by Jamie Charles View Post

      What a nightmare, I process one of my membership sites through paypal and I'm thinking about moving from it.

      The stories lately are just horrible!
      It's pretty bad because unlike obeying the law you can't just "do the right thing" and have a peaceful life. With Paypal anything can trigger a business destroying episode of freezing that goes on for months. I don't have a problem with their hair trigger (and like some have mentioned above) it's a good security feature but for crying out loud, let us explain and swiftly get back to business.
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      • Profile picture of the author Nisip
        Banned
        Originally Posted by MrBaz View Post

        It's pretty bad because unlike obeying the law you can't just "do the right thing" and have a peaceful life. With Paypal anything can trigger a business destroying episode of freezing that goes on for months.
        Exactly.

        Paypal has NO honesty and in my experience, PAYPAL NEVER KEPT ANY PROMISE THEY MADE (they promised about 15 times at least
        that my account will be unfrozen in the shortest time possible, maybe even in 2 hours, that everything is OK)
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  • Profile picture of the author Nisip
    Banned
    These are more than stories. It is very unfortunately very REAL very stressfull and VERY HORRIBLE experience of dealing with a big corporation Paypal, that abuses its clients any way they like to, and they unfortunately simply f**** their lives without any care and any reason, just to maximize their already huge profits.

    Imagine how "safe" I feel now, knowing that ANYONE from PAYPAL can open new bank accounts in my name, take credit in my name, and abuse my identity in any way they want,
    because they have EVERYTHING from me:

    - my money
    - all my ids in high resolution colour scans
    - my bank account
    - my credit card details
    - my utility bills
    - my business documents
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  • Profile picture of the author QuickSurf
    I had an attorney tell me PayPal makes a ton of money by freezing accounts and sitting on them to collect interest. It's popped up in some lawuits against them. Hence why it's almost always 180 days... do you think it takes them that long to fig out and resolve an issue on an account, not even close
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    • Profile picture of the author Nisip
      Banned
      Originally Posted by QuickSurf View Post

      I had an attorney tell me PayPal makes a ton of money by freezing accounts and sitting on them to collect interest. It's popped up in some lawuits against them. Hence why it's almost always 180 days... do you think it takes them that long to fig out and resolve an issue on an account, not even close

      Yes, this is public information.

      They do this, it is just one more way they at paypal ripoff people from all over the world and hold their money in very illegal way
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    I should add that I really went off at them which probably didn't help. I've since read a book about how to get unbanned and it pretty much says "going off at them will almost always guarantee 180 days". Stay calm and you will get your money if you've done nothing wrong so the only thing you can do is fight with contact and doing what they say nicely.

    Still sucks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nisip
      Banned
      Originally Posted by MrBaz View Post

      I should add that I really went off at them which probably didn't help. I've since read a book about how to get unbanned and it pretty much says "going off at them will almost always guarantee 180 days". Stay calm and you will get your money if you've done nothing wrong so the only thing you can do is fight with contact and doing what they say nicely.

      Still sucks.
      What do you mean that "going off at them"?

      english is not my native language.

      I did write them emails calling them DISHONEST and constantly misleaded me,
      and that it is VERY ANNOYING what they did, and asked them hoiw can they look themselves in the mirror everyday knowing
      that they freeze ILLEGALLY my money,
      while I NEVER EVER DID ANYTHING WRONG ?

      This means that I "went off at them"??

      Or if I report them at BBB and other institutions, it means that I go off at them??
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    Sorry, "going off" must be local to my area. It means, I got very angry and told them how angry I was. Lots of times. With lots of very bad language. Lots. Seriously, there was a LOT.

    It's a good idea not to do that. Just tell them that you understand and would like to clear the matter up as soon as possible. Ask them what they would like you to do and just do it and sing a song.
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  • Profile picture of the author renukoot
    Well Dude its really bad what happened to you, but options given by candela seems to be good. For others may be this the high time to switch to others. Seems they not listen to customers & have their own policy. Better switch to service which cares for customers & understand what may be the issue.
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  • Profile picture of the author ejb2059
    I learned my lesson with Pay Pal's over sensitive security a few years back ..Since then, I've learned to NEVER "assume" they will know anything and ALWAYS contact them ahead of time to let them know if I'm traveling, etc....

    Rev
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  • Profile picture of the author Aubaine
    Wow. Sorry to hear about your troubles! I've had similiar experiences while I ran a small business on eBay. Paypal will cease your account for nothing, and hold your money for as long as they want. Horrible company to do business with, hence why I run and hide from eBay and only deal with paypal when absolutely necessary. I also pull every penny out of paypal immediately and just pay what I need to with a bank account linked to paypal. But I don't have the amount of cash flowing through my account that you do. :]
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